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Weed Won’t Make State a Lot of Money
Posted by CN Staff on April 01, 2013 at 12:11:02 PT
By Bob Young, Seattle Times Staff Reporter
Source: Seattle Times
Seattle -- Washington state’s new pot consultant warned that tax revenues from recreational weed may not be as much as projected, and may come with undesirable consequences. Washington’s new pot consultant has one overarching, discouraging message for lawmakers and state budget writers: Don’t look at weed as an ATM.Potential tax revenue will probably be less than half of the $450 million the state has projected as a maximum return, said Dr. Mark Kleiman, in an interview with TVW’s Austin Jenkins.
More important, Kleiman said, to rely on money from pot — like money from gambling, alcohol and tobacco — means relying on abuse and addiction, which are not necessarily desirable state goals.“The brute fact,” said Kleiman, a UCLA drug-policy expert, is that those activities depend on heavy use by a few, not moderate use by many. Just 20 percent of users consume 80 percent of all the weed in the U.S., Kleiman said. (Forty-six percent of all alcohol consumed in the U.S. is part of drinking binges, he added).“The only way to get a lot of revenue is to sell a lot of marijuana,” he said. “The only way to sell a lot or marijuana is to sell to people who smoke a lot of marijuana. And that’s not a good thing.” Policymakers may not want the state “fostering disease,” he said.But Kleiman stressed that he is not the state’s drug czar and is not here to argue legalization. “We weren’t asked if this was good idea. We were asked to help the (liquor control) board implement a law that had been passed,” he said.In doing so, Kleiman suggested one coming disappointment: State-licensed pot stores probably won’t open until late spring, although the state may meet its goal of implementing rules for a recreational pot system by December.The trickiest part, Kleiman said, probably will be setting prices.There are many tangled priorities implicit in pricing. Higher prices mean less use, but also less revenue, and a stronger black market. Lower prices could cripple the black market but increase youth use and adult abuse, as well as illegal exports.As an academic and Californian, Kleiman said, he was glad to see this grand experiment unfold in Washington not California. He said he has been impressed by the smarts and morale of state officials. “We’re obviously pleased that drug policy that doesn’t take an ideological edge is in demand,” he said of winning the state’s consulting contract. “It hasn’t been.”And he stressed that this remains a state experiment that could be challenged at any time by a federal government that views marijuana as a dangerous drug.“We’re only trying to cause a legal market because the federal government is in the background.”Newshawk: HempWorldSource: Seattle Times (WA)Author: Bob Young, Seattle Times Staff ReporterPublished: March 30, 2013Copyright: 2013 The Seattle Times CompanyContact: opinion seatimes.comWebsite: http://www.seattletimes.com/URL: http://drugsense.org/url/xHXOg8qbCannabisNews -- Cannabis Archiveshttp://cannabisnews.com/news/list/cannabis.shtml
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Comment #24 posted by Paul Pot on April 02, 2013 at 21:23:13 PT:
Utopia is waiting for us to end the drug war.
Marijuana should be cheap because medicine should always be cheaply available to those in need no matter how little money they have.
The money to be made is really the money to be saved by not spending billions putting innocent people in prison every year.
And if marijuana is cheap people will have more money in their pockets to spend on other commodities which should make all other business' happy.
Let people grow their own should they wish and marijuana business will have to compete on quality and niche products.
That means value adding. The beginning of a whole new industry of mom and pop cottage industries.
Then there's hemp which will be way bigger than marijuana.
That will put the farmers back on the land and money and therefore people back into rural communities.
The drug war has been a disaster and ending it could well be the beginning of a utopian era.
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Comment #23 posted by Hope on April 02, 2013 at 18:41:38 PT
I keep worrying he has more power
to influence things than he really does, probably.
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Comment #22 posted by mexweed on April 02, 2013 at 18:16:50 PT:
Legalize it so we can Miniaturize it
Kleiman joins the "we-don't-understand" faction who worry about the "small number of very heavy users" and don't acknowledge that legalization will take the RISK out of producing, marketing Dosage Reduction Utensils (25-mg-per-lightup one-hitters replacing "easy-to-hide" 500-mg joint) and make it possible for Riefer Reformers to surge out like Mormons and Witnesses promoting vape toke everywhere in place of Hot Burning Overdose Monoxide (HBOM) rollup paper tragedy. The discovery that anyone CAN VAPORIZE with a one-hitter will kill the heavy-use "tradition" not only with weed but with alcohol and tobacco, destroying with it the "industry" PROFIT MARGIN built on scaring kids into overdosing to prove themselves part of the gang. Admittedly to smooth this through we must "forgive the enemy" and promote a Bail-Out for Philip Morris and retraining for millions of "tobacco workers" who until now have lived by a false doctrine of "$igarette consumerism" which blinds them to the virtues of monoxide-free vape tokage.
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Comment #21 posted by MikeEEEEE on April 02, 2013 at 17:46:14 PT
Money Angle
Suddenly state government, which was marching to the prohibition tune, now has to absorb legalization. Well, one or more of them decided to huff and puff, likely on a legal cancer cigarette, and bring the consultant to town. Its like bringing in a state drug czar. Then you have lawmakers, etc. thinking the money angle. Of course this czar will redirect them away from the money. Perhaps I'm quoting them when they may say, "Well.....you want your freedom, hmmm, but its going to be a shitty one."My prediction, once the tax money really starts to roll in, this consultant will become of le$$ value.
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Comment #20 posted by Hope on April 02, 2013 at 15:37:16 PT
Sabotage?
Treason?
[ Post Comment ]
Comment #19 posted by Hope on April 02, 2013 at 15:34:03 PT
Mark Kleiman
and whoever hired him or approved his hiring for this post should be investigated. This looks more and more like an effort at sabotage to me.It's like hiring John Dillinger to run a bank.
[ Post Comment ]
Comment #18 posted by runruff on April 02, 2013 at 15:31:15 PT
It's the hemp stupid!
The real profits and the game changer is in the production of hemp and hemp products. I am beguining to see the whole drug thing as a red herring, while their real issue is hemp. Hemp today, hemp tomorrow, hemp forever.
[ Post Comment ]
Comment #17 posted by anomalies on April 02, 2013 at 12:38:12 PT:
FOLLOW THE MONEY
This seems to all coming to a head in the direction of "NO MONEY TO BE MADE-JUST QUIT" since the anti-cannabis people "HIRED" a well known lobbiest to their side.
What influence and how much influence does this group have since the hire? Too much. By using money as a "FEAR TACTIC" they are able to effectively sway the minds of political influences. The fact is there is still a lot,,, and "I MEAN A LOT" more money on the table than they are letting on. Did they forget about the BILLIONS that goes to other countries?
We need to financially support our lobbiests and get the anti -cannabis peoples propaganda removed from the news.
sincerely :
Anomalies
[ Post Comment ]
Comment #16 posted by schmeff on April 02, 2013 at 08:21:50 PT
Will of the Voters
I really don't think the voters were particularly interested or concerned about who would PROFIT when they cast their votes. I'd like to think they were looking at who would benefit from the FREEDOM, not the MARKET.
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Comment #15 posted by Sam Adams on April 02, 2013 at 08:17:25 PT
communist cannabis
Setting prices? yes comrades, Chairman Mao would be proud. Perhaps customers should get a Progressive Insurance discount with every $500 ounce purchased?
[ Post Comment ]
Comment #14 posted by runruff on April 02, 2013 at 07:37:16 PT
Asset Forfeiture.
Pard, I done sung that country song!Been there, done that couldn't afford the tee-shirt!
[ Post Comment ]
Comment #13 posted by MikeEEEEE on April 02, 2013 at 06:36:51 PT
Re: Hired Gun
He was hired with the goal to sabotage the new law. "Don’t look at weed as an ATM."He would rather make the money by asset forfeiture.
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Comment #12 posted by runruff on April 02, 2013 at 06:27:38 PT
Kleiman and his ilk.
Prohibitionist practice what I call; "Pinocchio Politics". They use a pharmaceutical called Proboscis Pop-out Prohibitor to inhibit nose growth, otherwise...
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Comment #11 posted by FoM on April 01, 2013 at 18:47:42 PT
The GCW
I totally agree. Parents should care enough to know what is going on with their children. The Government did not give birth to people's children.
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Comment #10 posted by The GCW on April 01, 2013 at 18:12:53 PT
parent responsibility
There's a lot to be said about parent responsibility.Remember, "this is not your father's marijuana"?It's like Gov may believe it's not your father responsibility to parent if and when they can profit by intervening. And yeah, parents should keep pot away from kids. Just like booze, cigs, matches etc.
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Comment #9 posted by FoM on April 01, 2013 at 17:21:06 PT
The GCW
What gets me about the children is it is the parents responsibility to know where their child is, who their friends are and keep a check on them. Adults have been punished long enough for what is a parents responsibility.
[ Post Comment ]
Comment #8 posted by The GCW on April 01, 2013 at 17:20:14 PT
Inside news
Judge: Law on CO ballot measures unconstitutional
http://www.summitdaily.com/article/20130401/NEWS/130409998/1078&ParentProfile=1055DENVER (AP) — A federal court says a Colorado law requiring that only state residents be allowed to circulate ballot petitions is a violation of the First Amendment....That law would also have required signature gatherers to be paid by the hour, not by the signature. Plaintiffs who sued the state argued that the hourly payment requirement would incentivize signature gatherers to slack off....Attorney David Lane, who represented the groups, says he expects the state to appeal...-0-Colorado used paid signature gatherers...
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Comment #7 posted by The GCW on April 01, 2013 at 17:12:04 PT
Crock
Child pot poisoning up for some Colo. hospitalshttp://www.summitdaily.com/article/20130401/NEWS/130409997/1078&ParentProfile=1055-0-This was in the Denver Post, now it's in My local paper.
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Comment #6 posted by The GCW on April 01, 2013 at 17:09:25 PT
Hired Gun.
"pot consultant"- "UCLA drug-policy expert" - "a widely respected expert on drug policy"The so called "experts" have not only failed, they have failed miserably. They're not experts, they are failures. Experts at failing. Not, "drug-policy experts" but rather they are experts at cannabis prohibition. And they are not even experts at that.Hired Gun. Joke. Insult to voters. And getting paid... Twisted.
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Comment #5 posted by kaptinemo on April 01, 2013 at 16:03:24 PT:
Kleiman is an arch prohibitionist.
He 'advised' the ONDCP on how to maintain prohibition. Expecting him to do a volteface when he's made his bread-and-butter on maintaining prohibition is unrealistic.His stated aim is to maintain the price of cannabis artificially high in order to satisfy his and his fellow prohib's desire to keep prohibition going. The taxpayers of WA State should demand his firing as well as that of those who hired him.
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Comment #4 posted by FoM on April 01, 2013 at 12:25:50 PT
HempWorld
You're welcome.
[ Post Comment ]
Comment #3 posted by FoM on April 01, 2013 at 12:24:33 PT
Related Article From Raw Story
Washington’s Pot Consultant: ‘Entirely Possible’ Selling Marijuana Will Not Be Profitable
By Stephen C. WebsterSunday, March 31, 2013Washington state many he headed toward a situation where recreational sales of marijuana are not profitable due to heavy taxes, regulations and, most importantly, competition from the untaxed “collective gardens” where the state’s medical marijuana is grown, Washington’s newly hired pot consultant said last week.“Any revenue estimate depends on actually having people come to the licit market rather than having them use one of the parallel markets,” UCLA professor and author Mark Kleiman commented last week’s episode of the Washington-based news program “Inside Olympia.” “What if you gave pot legalization and nobody came? It is entirely possible that by the time we finish regulating and taxing this product, it’s going to be uncompetitive with what you can get at the collective gardens.”He added that the “brute fact” about legalizing marijuana “or any other activity that forms a bad habit,” is that 20 percent of the people who engage in said activity account for 80 percent of the consumption in that sector. “It’s true for alcohol,” Kleiman said. “The top 20 percent of drinkers consume more than 50 percent of the alcohol produced for the U.S. Or to put it a different way, 46 percent of all drinks in the United States are part of drinking binges. So when the alcohol industry tells you they’re a fan of responsible drinking, they must be planning to go out of business, because it isn’t responsible drinkers that build breweries. It’s drunks.”With marijuana, it’s just the same, he explained. “A small number of very heavy users account for most of the marijuana, so the typical marijuana smoker engaged in the discussion is not the average customer of the industry, whether it’s legal or illegal.” Because of that trend, most of Washington state’s heavy marijuana users are already likely acquiring their supply from the collective gardens that have already taken hold across the state. “The only way to get a lot of revenue is to sell a lot of marijuana. And the only way to sell a lot of marijuana is to sell it to people who smoke a lot of marijuana. And that’s not a good thing. You don’t want the state to set itself up as dependent on dependent cannabis users any more than you want the state to do what it already has done, which is to set itself up as dependent on addicted gamblers. I don’t think anybody in this process wants to see the legal cannabis market go the way of the state lottery, where they’ve got a state agency that’s deliberately fostering disease. Adults want to use a responsible amount of cannabis, I don’t think that’s a bad thing.” Kleiman, a widely respected expert on drug policy, declared in 2010 that legalization and taxation on a state level is an impossible “pipe dream” without the repeal of the Controlled Substances Act, which makes him and his firm a surprising choice for Washington’s Liquor Control Board, currently in the process of hammering out that very scenario. He’s since advocated for a consumer co-op model that avoids creating a state monopoly or multibillion dollar industry, as a sort of middle ground that nullifies the worst effects of industry while protecting state officials whose involvement would otherwise be seen as a crime by the federal government. This video is from “Inside Olympia,” published Friday, March 29, 2013.URL: http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2013/03/31/washingtons-pot-consultant-entirely-possible-selling-marijuana-will-not-be-profitable/
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Comment #2 posted by HempWorld on April 01, 2013 at 12:22:38 PT
Nobody Knows...
Sorry forgot to spell-check, but this is outrageous!How much tax revenue will be collected eventually! The most important thing is that we legalize it so we CAN tax it! But this fact most have been lost on Mark Kleiman. Dear Mr. or Dr. Mark Kleiman, if you are literate you can read what is written: The voters have decided (as in a true democracy) that it is legal, NOW! What are you going to do? You are disingenuous in your arguments certainly comparing it to alcohol and tobacco. Your argument is limp and very UN-scientific. I am surprised you hold a doctorate. You should stick to the facts, that is scientific not your hearsay and opinion making BS.
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Comment #1 posted by HempWorld on April 01, 2013 at 12:19:22 PT
Thanks FoM: Nobody Knows...
How much tax revenue will be collected eventually! The most important thing is that we legalize it so we CAN tax it!But this fact most have been lost on Mark Kleiman. Dear Mr. or Dr. Mark Kleiman, if you are literate you can read what is written: The voters have decided (as in a true democracy) that it is legal, NOW! What are you going to do?You are disinenguous in your arguments certainly comparing it to alchol and tobacco. Your argument is limp and very un-scientific. I am surprised you hold a doctorate.You should stick to the facts, that is scientific not your hearsay and opinon making bs.
[ Post Comment ]
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