Get Real About Initiative To Legalize Marijuana
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Get Real About Initiative To Legalize Marijuana
Posted by CN Staff on August 20, 2012 at 05:56:24 PT
Seattle Times Editorial
Source: Seattle Times
Seattle -- Revelers at Seattle's Hempfest celebration of marijuana were offered a debate by supporters and opponents of Initiative 502. We hope they were sober enough to think through it.For the first time, it is possible to envision an end to marijuana prohibition. That is a huge change -- a huge possible change that hasn't happened yet. But prohibition replaced by what? Any new regime will have to be acceptable to a majority of people -- and not just a majority of revelers at Hempfest or voters in liberal Seattle.
This fall, voters in Washington are being offered Initiative 502. For marijuana activists, it probably is not the ideal offer. The proposed law limits possession of smokable marijuana to one ounce. It has a blood-THC standard for driving a car, and no such standard exists now. It has heavy taxes. It doesn't allow private growing of marijuana plants except by medical patients. All this has occasioned bellyaching among cannabis users.Our advice: Get real. Voters in Washington are just now ready, for the first time, to allow marijuana to be grown, processed and used for recreational purposes. They are not ready to do this without a standard of intoxication for driving, or without licensing and regulation of people in the business, or without taxing marijuana like tobacco and alcohol.Hempfest revelers should remember: Your festival is tolerated because Seattle people don't agree with prohibition. Nonetheless, state law still says possession of marijuana, except for medical patients, is punishable by fines and imprisonment. In November, voters will be offered a law that declares possession of a limited amount of marijuana by adults is no longer punishable by fine or imprisonment.Think carefully before rejecting the offer.Source: Seattle Times (WA)Published: August 20, 2012Copyright: 2012 The Seattle Times CompanyContact: opinion seatimes.comWebsite: -- Cannabis Archives 
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Comment #47 posted by ekim on August 29, 2012 at 10:09:57 PT
found over at drugwarrant .com
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Comment #46 posted by afterburner on August 29, 2012 at 09:43:08 PT
Eye Opener - Country Comes to the Beach
Beach Boys & Lorrie Morgan “Don’t Worry Baby”!
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Comment #45 posted by Hope on August 29, 2012 at 09:13:32 PT
Comment 44
Not good. Not good at all.All the little tyrants. Where are the sons and daughters of liberty and freedom, and believers in government of, by, and for the people?
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Comment #44 posted by FoM on August 29, 2012 at 04:58:16 PT
Legalization of MJ Not a States’ Rights Issue
August 28, 2012Washington -- Republican gubernatorial candidate Rob McKenna said legalization of marijuana is not a states’ rights issue, when asked Tuesday what he’d do as governor if voters approved Initiative 502 in November.“I don’t think it’s a states’ rights issue. I think you have federal supremacy when it comes to laws like this,” he told reporters in a conference call. “If our state attempts to legalize a product, which is still criminalized under federal law, the feds will move forward and prosecute under federal law.”I-502 would legalize possession and sale of up to 1 ounce of marijuana. It would impose a steep excise tax on marijuana and cannabis-infused products at new state-licensed marijuana stores, and would allow state-regulated grow farms.McKenna opposes the measure, as does his Democratic challenger Jay Inslee. When pressed for details about what he’d do if the measure was approved, McKenna declined comment.“I don’t want to comment on what could happen with a law that’s not going to pass. If it passes in November, we’ll evaluate what actions we need to take,” he said.URL:
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Comment #43 posted by museman on August 23, 2012 at 22:18:46 PT
Bad Link
I'm sorry. It's being looked into.In the meantime, if anyone is interested, you can try this link;
Angry Man
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Comment #42 posted by Hope on August 23, 2012 at 18:55:54 PT
Sinsemilla Jones
Mine hasn't done that same thing in some time now but it was doing other slightly odd things. Like not responding as quickly as normal to clicks. It was very odd. It's ok now.I hope my mind isn't affecting it. Dang. Id be in a mess for sure then. But I have heard of what you are talking about and I think I saw it in action when one of my grandsons was a toddler. He seemed to make TVs louder when he watched them. But seemingly, as he got older, he was satisfied to use the regular volume control like everyone else.And I'm sorry about that drug test. It's such a shame. I hope someday people's jobs will be safe from being lost over something they smoked or ate yesterday or last weekend.
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Comment #41 posted by museman on August 23, 2012 at 15:53:46 PT
afterburner 38
I use chrome, and it seems to work...I guess I'll try to see why IE and Firefox won't. Sorry.
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Comment #40 posted by Sinsemilla Jones on August 23, 2012 at 15:12:32 PT
I started having those weird internet things happen to me that have recently happened to you, this morning, big time.I had been doing a lot of posting around facebook, was pretty much done, but was trying to do a little more, when I started to get notifications of a Like or a Post, and I'd go there and it wasn't there.Posts on my own threads that I knew I had made, that were between other posts I had made that were there, were missing.Closed some tabs in Chrome (I had a lot open), restarted it, restarted my puter, tried Firefox, but nothing helped. I needed to go to sleep anyway, so I did. Woke up this afternoon and everything seems fine.I have a theory. There's evidence that people can have a mental effect on machines. By focusing, people can have a slight, but measurable effect on random number generators, according to scientists who have been experimenting with such.I think maybe we're having a somewhat confusing effect on our computers and/or the computers they are connected to on the net, through at times our on own high emotional or empathetic state.Just a theory.
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Comment #39 posted by afterburner on August 23, 2012 at 12:01:41 PT
Current News
Bankrupt States Listen Up -- Colorado Stands to Earn Huge Bucks If It Legalizes Weed.
 NORML / By Paul Armentano | Sourced from
Posted at August 22, 2012, 1:51pm
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Comment #38 posted by afterburner on August 23, 2012 at 10:07:03 PT
museman #37
I'm getting php error messages in both Internet Explorer and Firefox. I'd love to hear Angry Man. Can you give us a better link?
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Comment #37 posted by museman on August 23, 2012 at 09:08:29 PT
OT: a new recording of an old song...
"Why I am an angry man."
Angry Man
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Comment #36 posted by Sinsemilla Jones on August 22, 2012 at 17:05:18 PT
And if 502 is defeated...
do folks really think that would be a signal to the Washington legislature not to pass it's objectionable parts on their own, without the good parts?
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Comment #35 posted by Sinsemilla Jones on August 22, 2012 at 16:59:44 PT
I'm not a fan of drug testing.
I'm a victim.But would it have been better, if I had not only been fired, but arrested, too?It would still be bad, but if it was for cause, instead of at random, wouldn't that be just a bit better?
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Comment #34 posted by Sinsemilla Jones on August 22, 2012 at 16:49:04 PT
So true, Hope.
"They would sell out the rights, liberty, freedom and dignity of the American people for a drug testing dollar."But at least we know/knew where these "people" stand. (I guess they're human, although I can understand how some folks might believe they're reptilians from another planet.)What really upsets me is folks who claim to love the plant like we do, even some who spend most their time literally "loving" the plant and watching it grow, but it seems that all they see is money growing. They love money more than it's freedom, more than our and even their own freedom.And we're going to learn, very soon now I think, which side Ron Paul really is on.
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Comment #33 posted by Hope on August 22, 2012 at 10:08:02 PT
Michael Walsh and Robert DuPont
are bad, bad people. They despise the idea of freedom. It's people like them that made us realize how important liberty and freedom are in the first place.Comment 28And their greed is so unbelievably astronomical. They would sell out the rights, liberty, freedom and dignity of the American people for a drug testing dollar.Just knowing what they are out there doing and what they are up to is utterly nauseating. Of course they would love money... it's why they have the power they do in the first place. They are hideous ugly souls.
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Comment #32 posted by Sinsemilla Jones on August 22, 2012 at 08:54:22 PT
Maybe FOR years, but definitely FOUR years.
I hate it when I make a spelling error that spell check can't catch.But since I'm posting again anyway -Best case, 3 of 3, Gary and Jim get elected, we definitely get Presidential action and might get Congressional action to change the federal rules and/or laws regarding cannabis for the much better.
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Comment #31 posted by Sinsemilla Jones on August 22, 2012 at 08:38:00 PT
The Big Picture
If all 3 initiatives pass and Gary gets at least 5 or 10 percent, the power of the cannabis vote might be the talk of the media on election night! And it will be a clear signal to all politicians and governments that cannabis has arrived and get on the bus or get run over.If 2 out of 3 pass, it's still good, but not great. The media won't talk about us as much, and the politicians and governments will see a mixed signal.If it's none, or even 1 of 3, it's negative talk and signals for us.And I'm afraid if Gary Johnson and Jim Gray only get 1 or 2 percent, it'll be a long time before we see another Presidential candidate run on legalizing marijuana.Worst case, if 0 or 1 of 3 pass, Gary and Jim get 1 percent, then any hope of Congressional and/or Presidential progressive action for cannabis liberation on the federal level in the next for years or more will vanish.
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Comment #30 posted by Sinsemilla Jones on August 22, 2012 at 08:04:15 PT
FoM #26
I love that Gary Johnson is pro-choice!That was one of several things I didn't like about Ron Paul. As libertarian as he claims he is, he'd still force his religious morality on women on that issue.
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Comment #29 posted by Sinsemilla Jones on August 22, 2012 at 07:54:39 PT
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Comment #28 posted by afterburner on August 21, 2012 at 19:58:51 PT
Sam #3 & Hope
Main » About NORML » Events » NORML Conferences » 2012: The Final Days of Prohibition.
2012: The Final Days of Prohibition.
October 4th - 6th 	Los Angeles, CA have to stop trying to placate the prohibitionists with these state ballot initiatives. They will never be placated and we end up losing support of the real activists. Look who is behind the per se nonsense: Main » Library » Driving and Marijuana » You Are Going Directly To Jail: What It Means, Who's Behind It, and Strategies to Prevent It.
You Are Going Directly To Jail: What It Means, Who's Behind It, and Strategies to Prevent It.
DUID Legislation: What It Means, Who's Behind It, and Strategies to Prevent It.
by Paul Armentano,
Deputy Director,
NORML | NORML Foundation.
September 16, 2011
{ Who's Behind the "Zero Tolerance" Campaign?The push for the implementation of "zero tolerance" per se DUI legislation began over a decade ago. In large part, this push was primarily driven by a small cabal of prohibitionists, police, drug testing proponents. Most prominent among them were Michael Walsh and Robert Dupont.Michael Walsh is executive director of the Walsh Group,[25] a federally funded organization that develops drug testing technology and lobbies for rigid workplace drug testing programs. Walsh is the former Director of the Division of Applied Research at the US National Institute on Drug Abuse (NIDA), and formerly served as the Associate Director to the Drug Czar.Michael Walsh has been the impetus and the point man behind the US push toward state "zero tolerance" DUID legislation for some time. In November 2002, the Walsh Group partnered with the ONDCP to lobby state legislatures to replace their effect-based DUID laws with "zero tolerance" per se legislation. Then, at a joint ONDCP/NIDA conference held in February of 2004, Walsh pronounced, "There is clearly a need for national leadership at the federal level to develop model statutes and to strongly encourage the states to modify their laws."Two weeks later, legislators in Congress began debating legislation to mandate states do just that. Though the Congressional measure failed, annual reports released by the White House Office of National Drug Control Policy since that time affirm that the passage of such legislation remains a primary policy goal. Today, the Walsh Group remains the primary lobby and educational organization on DUID-related information, working in concert with the Drug Czar's office to promote "zero tolerance" DUID legislation.The second leading proponent of the enactment of "zero tolerance" DUID legislation is former 1970s Drug Czar Robert DuPont -- another ex-NIDA director who now helms the workplace drug testing consultation firm Bensinger, Dupont & Associates.[26] Over the past two decades, Dupont has been a key player in the development and enactment of workplace drug testing guidelines, including the federal regulations that govern the testing of federally licensed drivers.[27] Dupont is now lobbying to expand these federal guidelines to apply to all motorists. He also favors the establishment of random, roadside drug testing checkpoints.[28] "We must move away from the concept of you can't drive impaired by drugs to you can't drive on drugs at all," he says, noting that drivers who test positive for drug metabolites but are otherwise unimpaired should be stripped of their license and then be monitored through regularly scheduled drug tests, including hair testing, for a period of two to five years. "Most people don't need [drug] treatment, they need a reason not to use drugs," and the enforcement of "zero tolerance" DUID legislation gives them that incentive, he believes.[29] }We need to address the issue of impaired driving on our own terms with real science.However, I would have a hard time voting in favor of prohibition and against legalization.Good news: a 2010 court case in Michigan removed inactive metabolites from Michigan's "zero tolerance" per se DUID law. { *NOTE: The Michigan Supreme Court has found that inert metabolites of marijuana do not constitute schedule I controlled substances. The court found that natural byproducts created by body during break down of THC were not derivative of marijuana. Inert metabolites do not constitute schedule I controlled substance, in part because they do have any known pharmacological effect, relate to level of THC-related impairment, and do not have potential for abuse and dependence. People v. Feezel, 783 N.W.2d 67(2010). }
Main » State Info » Michigan » Michigan Drugged Driving.
Michigan Drugged Driving, we just need a few more court cases and some real science to set things straight again.
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Comment #27 posted by FoM on August 21, 2012 at 16:41:17 PT
Sinsemilla Jones 
I agree with Hope.
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Comment #26 posted by FoM on August 21, 2012 at 16:40:32 PT
Annoying Politics
I am not surprised that Republican Todd Akins said what he said. It seems common sense is missing in so many of them.
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Comment #25 posted by Hope on August 21, 2012 at 15:46:20 PT
A "troublesome servant" indeed!
"Government is not reason, it is not eloquence, it is force like fire, a troublesome servant and a fearful master. Never for a moment should it be left to irresponsible action." George Washington.Thanks, Afterburner. 
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Comment #24 posted by Hope on August 21, 2012 at 13:43:05 PT
Sinsemilla Jones... thank you and the feeling is 
mutual, my friend."Hope, FoM, I really do feel you are close friends, and I really do love the whole gang and this beautiful, accepting as long as you pretty much stay chill, thinking, sharing, loving, virtual space."
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Comment #23 posted by afterburner on August 21, 2012 at 07:18:08 PT
Hope #5
Excellent post by Pete at DrugWarRant, Legalization isn’t the question .
It needs to be linked far and wide. I already saved it in my favorites. Your response is also great. .election 2012. 
AlterNet / By Joshua Holland. 
The Conservative Psyche: How Ordinary People Come to Embrace Paul Ryan's Cruelty. 
Scientific research into the way we think explains the reasons decent people wind up supporting horrific policies. 
August 19, 2012 2012. 
Blog for Our Future / By Dave Johnson. 
Romney's Campaign Strategy: Lie, Lie, and Lie Some More -- Can Democracy Survive with 0% Media Accountability? 
The Romney camp is boldly lying because they are making a calculation that it will work! We better hope it doesn't.
August 13, 2012
{ This is a key thing to get, the Romney campaign believes that they can win this election using lies and propaganda as "truths" to drive their campaign story. They are making the calculation that the right's media machine has become sufficiently powerful for their version of reality to reach enough of the public, and that it is sticking in their minds as "truths!" }Dateline 2012:Liberals recall Legislature in bid to push through bill freezing teachers’ wages. 
Published 17 minutes ago - [1:15 PM 8/20/2012].
Tanya Talaga/Toronto Star Both the NDP and the Conservatives said they have “concerns” about the bill and won’t support Dalton McGuinty's government.
Rob Ferguson,
Queen's Park Bureau.
37 Comments 1995:John Snobelen
{ The Progressive Conservatives won a majority government in the 1995 election, and Snobelen was appointed as Minister of Education and Training in Mike Harris's government on June 26, 1995. Shortly after his appointment, Snobelen was filmed arguing that the PC government needs to "bankrupt" and to create a "useful crisis" in the education system so as to initiate significant reforms. This controversy provoked several calls for his resignation, and further unsettled the relationship between the government and the teaching community, which were already tense after the previous NDP administration unilaterally imposed a Social Contract.[1][2] }Grumpy in Toronto.
Friday, January 4, 2008.
John Snobelen - the high price of ignorance and stupidity
{ Snobelen had one clear instruction from his boss, that other well known scholar, Mike Harris - kick the crap out of education and educators. Why both men despised everything to do with education is open for speculation. And yes, you're probably bang on with that but we'll leave it to the shrinks to sort out.Suffice to say Snobelen was a willing shit kicker. He got caught within days of becoming minister for his unequivocal orders to the senior managers of the ministry of education - "create a crisis" they were told, in order to justify the changes Snobelen was going to impose. }This is typical conservative process: exploit a crisis to introduce change or create a crisis to introduce change. This dynamic was described in detail in the book The Shock Doctrine.Dateline 2007:"The Shock Doctrine: The Rise of Disaster Capitalism is a 2007 book by Canadian author Naomi Klein, and is the basis of a 2009 documentary by the same name directed by Michael Winterbottom.[1]" 18th Century - George Washington (American commander in chief of the colonial armies in the American Revolution (1775-83) and subsequently 1st US President (1789-97), born 1732 - died 1799): "Government is not reason, it is not eloquence, it is force like fire, a troublesome servant and a fearful master. Never for a moment should it be left to irresponsible action."
George Washington.
George Washington QUOTES / QUOTATIONS
[Father of our country gold!]
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Comment #22 posted by museman on August 21, 2012 at 07:13:21 PT
"Legal like alcohol? Marleyboros?Sacrilege! We must stop it!"Refreshing! 
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Comment #21 posted by FoM on August 21, 2012 at 05:58:07 PT
Sinsemilla Jones 
Comment 13. I think it is always good to never forget.
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Comment #20 posted by Sinsemilla Jones on August 21, 2012 at 04:38:16 PT
Oh, yeah, forgive me, but I got to do it. Evening With VP Candidate Judge Jim Gray Johnson Will END The War on Drugs like alcohol? Marleyboros?Sacrilege! We must stop it!
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Comment #19 posted by Sinsemilla Jones on August 21, 2012 at 04:08:42 PT
And I think that brings it all back Home!
I'm going to stop now. For a while or so.I need to sleep.And a bath would be good, one of these days.I really do love you, but don't hug me. I stink!
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Comment #18 posted by Sinsemilla Jones on August 21, 2012 at 04:03:25 PT
The King Of Comedy!
I forgot about Scorsese and Kubrik, of course, and DeNiro and Hoffman (whichever) (no, actually Dustin, but Abby in a way, too), and William S Burroughs (The 1st written mention of the 23 thing?), although......Peter Sellers! Meryl Streep!I knew this one wasn't going to be as good, that self-fulfilling prophesy cummings, Yeats (we can't just drop names of people I never Realy knew can I)It's coming.A Second Coming?a salesman is an it that stinks Excuse Mewhether it's the president of the you were sayor a gentleman named misder fingerisn't important(plagiarism now)listenthere's a hell of a good universe next doorlet's go(Well, this is totally off track now, the brain got ahead, as it always does. The style changed, too. But all this was meant to do was to reassure that I'm not going nuts.)So, just ignore this one, pretty much. I'm definitely not going to do something stupid....well, nothing stupider than what I've already done. (Should that have been in parenthesis?)Except this. This is pertinent. getting the feds out of it not enough?Yeah, in a perfect world, Gary's marijuana position would "evolve" in the same way as his gay marriage position has, into a federally protected civil right, and it wouldn't surprise me, if it did.But is it really necessary to gain the "cannabis community"'s support?Really?And the ATF controlling marijuana would be more acceptable?Really?Really???
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Comment #17 posted by Sinsemilla Jones on August 21, 2012 at 02:37:07 PT
Something really good IS going on!But it IS really, really, weird.When the going gets weird, the weird turn pro.I forgot about Hunter Thompson. Yep, both me and Byron.But there's more.It's coming.
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Comment #16 posted by Sinsemilla Jones on August 21, 2012 at 02:32:21 PT
Epilogue to the Monologue
before possible Dialogue? Some kind of log.But 1st, A Number!That was it, it finally came to me. The first part.But First, A Number!Maybe it should be abbr.B1A#
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Comment #15 posted by Sinsemilla Jones on August 21, 2012 at 02:10:38 PT
I've had my run ins with 666s and 23s
among many, many other (I just misspelled other as toher, is that another?) synchronicities in my life.Byron, 1st told me of the 23 thing. Long, long before that movie with Jim Carey.I think Byron 1st told me that there were folks who didn't think we went to the moon. He was somewhat obsessed with Andy Kaufman. And we both listened to REM, before that song came out. Long, long before that movie with Jim Carey.Byron hated Jim Carey. Long, long before either of those movies came out.Byron was obsessed with David Letterman (among others, like Zappa, Dylan, Dali, almost anyone who could do the surreal, satirical, artistic thing well.) He made and edited tapes of Letterman for years. He always wanted to be on Letterman. Long, long before a pretty close friend of his did. (Not me.)And those probably aren't the weirdest things.Both together and separately, we both experienced a whole lot of weird shit. More than I can remember, at least at one sitting.Where was this going?There was something Hope said the other day, about this really good feeling, did you say kinda weird?But a really good feeling, that something really, really, good was going to happen.And soon!Yeah, there's a part 2, if these haven't been parts. I haven't written it, yet, but I know it's there.It's called "The Imperfect Storm" by Kilgore Trout(Hmmm, the title was planned, but the author wasn't.)It's a fantasy. (Time out for Futurama. It's the one where Zap steers a simple spaceship cruise purposely through a field of comets and into a black hole. [Is that another?] Byron and I both love Futurama and The Simpsons. Not sure what that has to do with this, nor his love for Zappa, or Vonnegut, or Carlin, which I shared.)Anyways, it's this fantasy about this wonderful world where 3 U.S. states had propositions for the legalization of marijuana on the ballot, and a Presidential candidate was running with legalizing marijuana as a major part of his platform. And there was a good chance the propositions could pass, and the Presidential candidate wasn't a nut!Though it's being written right now, it was written in 1989, 1979, 1969, and some folks were actually writing it in 1959!Imagine that.Everyone who wrote this knew how everyone who smoked pot would vote, of course. There was no question that every one who smoked pot would vote for the propositions, and vote for the Presidential candidate.(Hmmmmmmmmmmm, I'm not sure how this story should end. Should it end in a twist, like Kurt Vonnegut would have Kilgore Trout write?)
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Comment #14 posted by Sinsemilla Jones on August 21, 2012 at 00:52:52 PT
And I should have said and done that
a long time ago.
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Comment #13 posted by Sinsemilla Jones on August 21, 2012 at 00:46:43 PT:
But before I continue, A Number!
One of my best friends, no one better, died 3 years ago today/yesterday, August 20 (the birthday of both H.P. Lovecraft and Hitler). He liked to say that, not to literally do one of any sort most of the time. He just liked to say it. The first part could vary, but "A Number" was always the same. Byron was a character. A unique character.But I digress.I love all of you. I'm sorry I've been often and mostly absent and distant for a while. Hope, FoM, I really do feel you are close friends, and I really do love the whole gang and this beautiful, accepting as long as you pretty much stay chill, thinking, sharing, loving, virtual space.
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Comment #12 posted by Sinsemilla Jones on August 20, 2012 at 22:58:57 PT
Half Empty, Half Full, or just Full Of It?
It's a funny thing, Sam, as I've been reading of the cannabis community's split in Washington on 502, similar to the split in California on 19, a comparison to slavery popped into my head, too. But I thought of how ridiculous it would have been for abolitionists in Congress to block the Emancipation Proclamation, because it didn't free the slaves in non-rebelling states.However, the Emancipation Proclamation didn't prevent the adoption of the 13th Amendment that freed all slaves 2 years later.But instead of then allowing a gradual integration of the South, favored by Lincoln and then Andrew Johnson, radical Republicans in Congress and then Grant decided that Reconstruction should force an immediate integration by putting the former Confederacy under control of the Army. Summing up what is a very complicated issue, it was this radical attempt at integration that led to what you correctly refer to as a hardcore apartheid in the South from the end of Reconstruction until the beginning of the Civil Rights movement post WWII. I'm not sure why the more subtle segregation and suppression of blacks in the North lasted for the same amount of time.Remember, the same U.S. Army that attempted to force integration during Reconstruction, was not itself integrated until Harry Truman.While the medical marijuana laws in the states legalizing it after California being somewhat more restrictive to varying degrees could be argued to be a regression of the movement, I think there's no question that the fact so many states HAVE passed mmj legislation since California's is a progression of the movement.And I think it could definitely be argued that the lack of progress for total legalization of cannabis in these states could and has led to regression of the movement and a more restrictive environment even in California.I've read of some pretty wild theories on why the Obama administration started a crackdown on mmj, including that Holder was doing it to distract from Fast and Furious, but I think the defeat of 19 is the obvious answer that we seem to ignore.In fact, many people argued before the vote on 19, that it's defeat would be a signal to the federal government that the people of California felt that mmj had gone to far. And as we have seen, it's not just the federal government that has cracked down, but also L.A. and other local governments within Cali, which would seem to point to the defeat of 19 as being a signal to all governments. And the perfect proposition that all the anti-19ers said would come in 2012 never emerged.Ironically, those against 19 also argued that it's passage would hurt mmj users.So, I think the anti-502ers in the Washington mmj community might be inviting a federal and local crackdown of their own.And though there is no way to yet know, the perfect, immediate, complete, dare I say "radical" legalization of marijuana (that may never come), which to some folks would mean no taxes, no driving restrictions, no age restrictions, and no corporate participation, might itself backfire.To be continued....
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Comment #11 posted by Paul Pot on August 20, 2012 at 21:57:25 PT:
kick start a tsunami
If it's true that the initiative creates restrictions then it is not really legalization but decriminalization but it's got to be better than what we have now. You won't get anywhere if you don't go there. And if you don't like what you get you can always go back to the ballot 2 years later with another initiative and improve on it. The most important thing right now is to force change of any kind. Stand up to the fed and slap them in the face with reality. The world wants change and nothing could say that better than a state ballot to reform marijuana laws, except maybe three state ballots to reform marijuana laws. Colorado, Oregon and Washington. Reform in these states would create a conflict with federal and international law and will have to be addressed. We get our day in court. There are also perhaps four states that will vote on medical marijuana, Massachusetts, Montana, Arkansas looks in and maybe North Dakota too. I don't suppose they will all win but imagine the effect of a clean sweep. It would send "A CLEAR MESSAGE" that people want reform NOW. So while I agree with those concerned that true legalization would be preferable, a united front on this issue this November would do more to bring about that dream than anything else possibly could right now. Maybe up to a hundred people are murdered every day across Latin America in the name of the drug war and they are already talking about legalization but America still pulls the strings. So if any US state should legalize a whole bunch of Sth American nations might just go "well so can we". Europe is in economic crisis and there are a few nations there who might be willing to try something new. There seems to be loaded bases every where you look. The whole world will be watching November 6 and a positive outcome could well kick start a tsunami of reform that goes right round the world. Please vote YES this November 6. War Is Over! 2012! 
If you want it! 
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Comment #10 posted by FoM on August 20, 2012 at 16:32:47 PT
I agree with you. I see the big picture of how far we have come. I tend not to look too closely at the present. Nothing worth anything is every easy to achieve.
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Comment #9 posted by Hope on August 20, 2012 at 15:27:57 PT
But all in all...
has it not gone forward somewhat in some ways in some places from the darkest of days that most of us remember all too well and not that terribly long ago?I hope so. I hope so.
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Comment #8 posted by Sam Adams on August 20, 2012 at 11:22:09 PT
more thoughts
interesting responses, I wish I could be as optimistic about the future and "tweaking". Remember how medical MJ came onto the scene? Prop. 215 in 1995, the most permissive medical law ever passed, not the weakest. Since 1995 the medMJ laws have become less permissive, not more. What if Prop. 215 had not included personal growing and dispensaries? Maybe medical MJ would not even offer those components today. Maybe medical MJ would look a lot different, maybe it would be totally controlled by corporations already.It's a false choice. Voters in Oregon won't have to make a false choice, they'll get to vote on an excellent legalization law. When a referendum gets to the ballot, that is our best chance to make serious reform - dramatic changes. What happens after the referendum passes is watering-down, not expansion. If you look at decrim the same is true. In Mass. a 2008 referendum was passed that abolished ALL criminal pentalties for possession, and set the fine at $100 for an ounce or less. The $100 does not increase, you could get 100 tickets a year and each one would be $100 and not go onto any kind of record.Since 2008, three other state legislatures have passed decrim bills, and each one is signficantly weaker than the Mass. referendum. Possession is criminal at a half ounce or a quarter ounce, and fine is $200 and escalates with multiple offenses. The police retain the option for criminal arrest, etc. Again, decrim is not getting stronger after the decisive Mass. win (65%), it's getting weaker, just like medical. 
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Comment #7 posted by Canis420 on August 20, 2012 at 11:08:52 PT:
I agree with Hope that we need to get the legalization question out of the way. The law can be tweaked down the road. Once legalization is out of the bottle it wont get put back in and eventually there will be a legitimate test for impairment. But we cant wait. Legalize now and tweak later.
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Comment #6 posted by FoM on August 20, 2012 at 10:24:57 PT
My 2 Cents
I wish I knew how I felt. I don't mind the part about under age kids but the drug testing since impairment isn't determined with current ways of testing for THC bothers me. As long as medical marijuana patients can grow their own that would be fine with me.
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Comment #5 posted by Hope on August 20, 2012 at 10:23:47 PT
Something Pete said over at DrugWarRant
applies to this situation."And because of the politics involved, we often really have no choice but to play these ridiculous games."An outstanding, and I think, important, read.
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Comment #4 posted by Hope on August 20, 2012 at 08:59:58 PT
I think there are "Stairs"... steps...out of this Hell Hole of injustice that prohibition is. Why does it have to mean being able to leap all the way to top or we can't get out? We can't use the steps?Yes... it's a suckfest.... but it leads out and to less persecution and freedom, eventually. That's what I believe, anyway.
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Comment #3 posted by Sam Adams on August 20, 2012 at 08:36:42 PT
settling low
remember when slavery officially "ended" in this country?  African-americans in the south had to live under hardcore apartheid for another 100 years. 1,000 lynchings per yearwe need to avoid settling for a middle-ground type situation. To me the litmus test is, does it eliminate all arrests and jail for cannabis?  except for drivers that are proven to be physically impaired DUI. LEO are waiting to fill the jails with people who fail DUIs. If they get this "per se" nonsense standardized it will give them the option to nail anyone who's had cannabis in the last few weeks.And this proposal will obviously penalize the poor people who can't afford to buy high-priced cannabis. They'll still be going to jail for growing their own, while wealthier folks buy at the store. Not acceptable.
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Comment #2 posted by ripit on August 20, 2012 at 08:14:23 PT
its a start
weve come a long way for this and while the driving issue sucks it ould be a lot easier to change down the road than the big one we've been fighting for!i always thought that they should prove impairment not levels of some such, their treating it just like alcohol because they have no other way to do it?
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Comment #1 posted by FoM on August 20, 2012 at 08:07:09 PT
Willie Nelson Cancels Concert, Hospitalized
I hope Willie is OK. He is so special to us.URL:
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