What The Feds Can Do About Prop 19

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  What The Feds Can Do About Prop 19

Posted by CN Staff on October 25, 2010 at 07:24:17 PT
By Ryan Tracy 
Source: Newsweek 

California -- Assume for a moment that California voters approve Proposition 19 on Nov. 2. The state will have just enacted a process for legalizing, regulating, and taxing marijuana use that no one else in the world has ever attempted. But Attorney General Eric Holder, President Obama’s top law-enforcement officer, has said the administration will “vigorously enforce” federal drug laws in the country’s most populous state regardless of the vote. For all the trails that approving Prop 19 would blaze, much of its impact would depend on the extent to which Holder follows through on that threat.
The attorney general has shown some willingness to scale back on marijuana enforcement; his Justice Department ended Bush-era crackdowns on medical pot dispensaries in California. Of course, the post–Prop 19 world would be different. California cities could license businesses that grow and sell marijuana on a large scale. Drug dealers in other states would surely head to California’s “coffee shops” (as weed retailers are called in Amsterdam), buy some California-grown product, and illegally transport it back home. It’s arguable that pot smokers and presumably some dealers can do that today, but they at least need a doctor’s permission and a state-issued ID card, which provides cover for authorities, however easily those cards may be obtainable. With that cover removed, Holder, whose department includes the Drug Enforcement Agency, could hardly ignore such a blatant violation of federal drug law.Or could he? If one takes Holder at his word, the administration plans to do battle with marijuana retailers in California. That would not surprise advocates of decriminalized marijuana—this and other administrations have always opposed their cause. But if, after election night, Holder and Obama still believe in that course of action, they will have reasons to reconsider. For one, the administration’s cheapest course of action, a challenge to Prop 19 in the courts, looks doomed. Constitutional-law experts say California has no obligation to have the same criminal laws as the federal government, so Holder’s Justice Department can forget any lawsuit compelling the state to make marijuana use a crime. “Arguably a state could decriminalize murder” and the federal government could not force it to do otherwise, says Ruthann Robinson, a constitutional-law professor at the City University of New York. On the legalization question, then, Holder’s hands are tied.But there may be other options in the courts. UCLA’s Mark Kleiman, a drug-policy expert, suggests Justice could try to preempt cities from passing laws that license marijuana sales by arguing that those licenses would help marijuana dealers commit a federal crime. That strategy, if successful, would torpedo the entire tax-and-regulation structure of Prop 19. But some legal experts are skeptical of that approach.The Justice Department is currently arguing that federal regulations trump state law in trying to block Arizona’s immigration law, but federal drug policy differs from immigration policy in that the latter is an attempt to comprehensively regulate an issue without the help of the states, says Alex Kreit, a professor at the Thomas Jefferson School of Law. By contrast, when Congress outlawed marijuana under the Controlled Substances Act, it said the act did not preclude state laws regulating marijuana unless “the two [laws] cannot consistently stand together.” Since it would be possible for a Californian to follow both federal law and the laws Prop 19 would allow (easy: just don’t buy, sell, or consume pot), the courts could not prevent, say, Oakland, from licensing marijuana, Kreit says.However, Erwin Chemerinsky, dean of the University of California, Irvine, School of Law, thinks Justice may have a case if it can argue that a local law that licenses marijuana “impedes the achievement of the federal objective,” namely preventing the sale of illegal drugs. But if Justice were going to sue the state or local municipalities, wouldn’t Holder have said so? In a recent letter to former DEA agents regarding Prop 19, Holder made his promise to “vigorously enforce” federal drug laws, but he did not threaten a lawsuit, even though many of those agents favor one and a suit would require far fewer resources than raiding marijuana retailers and making arrests.Legal issues aside, the DEA can still enforce federal drug laws in California. And though it would be more effort than a legal challenge, enforcement wouldn’t require much investigation. Even a DEA rookie could walk into, say, Oakland City Hall and ask to see records of the licensed businesses, then go arrest people at the addresses on the list. On this point, Holder could learn from his predecessors: when voters in California and Arizona approved medical marijuana in 1996, the Clinton administration argued that doctors who recommended it could face criminal penalties. When that failed to pass legal muster, the Justice Department changed tactics and brought criminal cases against marijuana retailers, state licenses notwithstanding.During the Bush years, the DEA boosted its enforcement of marijuana laws in California, to little or no real effect—DEA agents made 594 marijuana arrests in 2006 in the state, compared with 359 in 2001, the San Francisco Chronicle reported in 2007. The Chronicle also noted that the number of marijuana plants seized annually during that period grew more than threefold, to about 3 million in 2006. In 2008 DEA agents seized a record 5.2 million plants. And the arrests continued up until the Obama administration stopped cracking down on dispensaries in March 2009. Yet despite the crackdown, dispensaries grew in number: in 2007, the Chronicle estimated that ID-card-holding marijuana buyers could find the product in 300 stores across the state, up from 100 in 2001. (Other publications have put the number of dispensaries lower: London’s Guardian reported there were 150 in 2008, and The Christian Science Monitor found that there were 183 in 2007.) Now that the Obama administration has stopped busting dispensaries, various estimates put the number at between 500 and 1,000. If Prop 19 decriminalizes recreational marijuana use for everyone over age 21, the number of retailers would almost certainly skyrocket, and it’s unlikely that the DEA would have the resources to arrest them all.History suggests that enforcement likely would not stop Californians from selling and consuming legal marijuana. But it still would be difficult for the attorney general to stand by as the state legalizes pot. The reason: other states might not care about thousands of Californians consuming legal marijuana, but they would fume at a Justice Department that allows drug dealers to carry California-grown cannabis across state lines.Precisely how much of this legally bought, illegally transported “gray market” marijuana would flood the market is unclear and would presumably depend on price. A recent study by the nonprofit RAND Corporation estimates that taxed, California-produced marijuana would cost $91 per ounce for the end consumer at retail shops. That’s far cheaper than black-market prices, which can be as much as $400 per ounce. But the researchers acknowledged considerable uncertainty about the headway that gray-market California marijuana might make across the country. Smuggling costs are difficult to estimate, for example (what’s the going rate for driving a truck full of California pot to Wisconsin? Or Texas?), and tax levels in California are hard to predict. And if cheaper California marijuana were to flood the market, how far would sources of black-market pot, such as Mexican cartels or traffickers based in Canada and rural America, lower their prices to maintain their share of the business?In another study, the RAND researchers made their best guesses at these variables and tried to compare the price of legal marijuana from California with cannabis exported by Mexico’s murderous cartels. They found that California pot would be far cheaper even with estimated taxes included, likely taking over the entire California market unless the cartels drastically cut their prices. When it came to prices in other states, the researchers concluded that marijuana from California would “undercut” prices of illegal cannabis across the country only “if the federal government reacted to Prop 19 in a fairly passive way.” In a post–Prop 19 world, in other words, the more federal regulators crack down on the flow of California marijuana across the country, the more expensive that pot would become in other states, making it less of a threat to the cartels’ business.Prop 19 is, by many accounts, a flawed initiative. “I would rather be talking about the merits of legalization than the demerits of this cockamamie kluge of a bill,” says Kleiman, the UCLA drug-policy expert, expressing his frustration with the slew of media calls he’s received on the subject. “If a law is properly drafted, you know when it’s valid and you know what will happen if it passes. It seems to me neither is the case.”Indeed, no one knows for sure whether California weed would replace Mexican dope, or if the feds would sue California, or how often DEA agents would be busting down doors in Oakland pot shops. But if voters approve Prop 19, the attorney general will have to figure out the answers to those questions, and quickly.Source: Newsweek (US)Author: Ryan TracyPublished: October 25, 2010Copyright: 2010 Newsweek, Inc.Contact: letters newsweek.comWebsite: http://www.newsweek.comURL:  -- Cannabis Archives

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Comment #35 posted by Had Enough on October 28, 2010 at 20:40:48 PT
And all That Jazz
Henry Mancini, "Pink Panther Theme" was the bass player in a three-piece band…and we played our own rendition of this…Everyone loved it…Take note of the Fender Bass…************Baby Elephant Walk - Henry Mancini************Hope…That’s good news (‘music’ to my ears). It looks like you are over the worst of it. Stay strong…Keep on fighting and spitting in that ‘Grim Reapers’ eye…Note to Grim Reaper…Leave our sister alone…go right back to where you came from…and can take a few of your buddies with you too…
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Comment #34 posted by Hope on October 28, 2010 at 20:07:02 PT
GeoChemist Comment16
Very good letter! Please let us know if you hear anything as soon as you do. I like that 'demanding' business. Very much. We are demanding that change and getting things right. We haven't been ugly about. But we have been persistent, loud as we can be, and we will be persistent, and we will beat on the door until it's answered or it just falls down from the relentless knocking.We demand justice, freedom, and a better way.
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Comment #33 posted by Hope on October 28, 2010 at 20:01:01 PT
Museman... Comment 29 Thank you.
An update on the 'condition my condition is in'. The tumor has shrunk to about a third of it's original size. No one said so, but I think this moves me back from stage 3 to stage 2... based on the size of the tumor, and that it's not in my lymph nodes or spread anywhere else.I feel loved. Thank you all for every prayer and kind thought and caring vibe. Thank you, so very much.
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Comment #32 posted by Hope on October 28, 2010 at 19:20:51 PT
Beethoven's 5th Symphony
Thank you, Had Enough. Stirring for this time of night, if a person plans on going to sleep within a few hours, but magnificent. Truly magnificent.
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Comment #31 posted by Hope on October 28, 2010 at 18:59:58 PT
I think the same way!
"I have been in a few big cities and look and think wow the people who physically built New York were amazing."I'm always awed and amazed at the the things people build and create. A very great lot of the time... we are amazing and wonderful creatures. Not always, but an amazing lot of the time. We too often have a really ugly side, and a definite down side, and a not so awesome side... but we're amazing anyway. No doubt.
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Comment #30 posted by Had Enough on October 28, 2010 at 18:29:44 PT
I’m happy everyone enjoyed the tunes.
Music with a message…as it should be…with maybe some exceptions to various instrumentals.Hope…You don’t need hair for 'spiritual antennae'…I feel it every time I think of you…and it comes in ‘Loud & Clear’…:)************Rossini: William Tell Overture: Final "William Tell Overture" is the instrumental introduction to the opera William Tell by Gioachino Rossini. There has been repeated use (and sometimes parody) of this overture in popular media, most famously for being the theme music for the Lone Ranger radio and television shows. It is quoted by Dmitri Shostakovich in his Symphony No. 15. William Tell was composed in 1829 and was the last of Rossini's 39 operas, after which he went into semi-retirement, although he continued to compose cantatas, sacred music, and secular vocal music. Franz Liszt prepared a piano transcription of the overture in 1838 (S.552).The overture is in four parts, each segueing into the next:	
·	Prelude - a slow passage scored for five solo cellos accompanied by double basses·	Storm - dynamic section played by full orchestra·	Ranz des Vaches (call to the dairy cows) - featuring the cor anglais or English horn and flute (this segment is often used in animated cartoons to signify daybreak)·	Finale - ultra-dynamic "cavalry charge" galop heralded by trumpets and played by full orchestra; this segment is often used in popular media to denote galloping horses and became the Lone Ranger theme music************This is the first movement of Beethoven's 5th symphony. Composed between 1804 and 1808.***Beethoven Symphony No.9 (FoM should enjoy the pictures)***	 I’ve often told people that 200 years from now…The Beatles will be remembered the same as Mozart…Beethoven… Gioachino Rossini…etc…are revered todayFrom a comment left on YouTube:200 years later, no one has even come close. Beethoven is truly the greatest. His music has all the power to stand the test of time.
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Comment #29 posted by museman on October 28, 2010 at 10:54:19 PT
Don't worry. I think the current transmissions are strong enough one has to actually tune them out. -hair or no hair (At least subconsciously) -and the wonderful thing about hair, is, it keeps growing back (except of course for the baldness condition).Glad you are keeping on top of your struggle. You know many hold you in their thoughts and prayers.
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Comment #28 posted by FoM on October 28, 2010 at 07:27:26 PT
Arizona Senators Speak Out Against Prop 203
By David Rookhuyzen, Cronkite News ServiceOctober 28, 2010U.S. Sens. John McCain and Jon Kyl led a group of Republican officials Wednesday denouncing a ballot measure that would allow medical marijuana."Marijuana for medical treatment is the foot in the door for legalization," Kyl said at a Phoenix news conference opposing Proposition 203.URL:
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Comment #27 posted by FoM on October 28, 2010 at 07:21:42 PT

I believe Obama will win a second term. After that I won't be worried since I will be much older and what I hope he will accomplish should be done by then. I cannot imagine having a republican as president at least until it is their turn after Obama completes his 8 years. Most presidents get re-elected unless they do something worse then invading a sovereign country. A country that never killed an American.
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Comment #26 posted by ezrydn on October 28, 2010 at 06:35:40 PT:

Another Broken Obama Promise
"Change starts from the ground up, not the top down."Because if it starts from the ground up, it's easier to step on and squash, Mr. President? While we only have 5 more days, you've only got 2 more years. It's a give and trade function.
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Comment #25 posted by Hope on October 28, 2010 at 06:04:09 PT

'spiritual antennae' 
I love Museman's theory... but I'm in a heck of mess right now as far as my "antennae" are concerned. Almost immediately upon realizing I was going to lose my hair...I realized that I was going to lose my "antennae", too. A few antennae, even very short ones, are quite sensitive though.:0)
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Comment #24 posted by Hope on October 28, 2010 at 05:47:39 PT

Had Enough comment 20
I agree with you, and I agree with and understand what both FoM and Museman are talking about.
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Comment #23 posted by FoM on October 28, 2010 at 05:24:07 PT

Had Enough 
Thank you for the great music and for responding. I went outside the other day and took many pictures of the trees because I knew the leaves would be gone soon. The terrible storm we had knocked most of them off. I have been in a few big cities and look and think wow the people who physically built New York were amazing. I don't think of the buildings but the people who did the labor. Nature is a gift and I value it above any man made product.
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Comment #22 posted by museman on October 28, 2010 at 00:12:23 PT

Had Enough
An amazing array of nostalgia. I had 45's of most of those (couldn't afford many albums) and I wore out many phonograph needles playing them over and over.
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Comment #21 posted by Had Enough on October 27, 2010 at 23:44:32 PT

While were at it…

This one goes out to mankind…Strawberry Alarm Clock - Incense And Peppermints not…One more…???The Zombies - Time of the Season (HD) (MolotovTV)

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Comment #20 posted by Had Enough on October 27, 2010 at 23:06:47 PT

Pictures, Materialisim,. Unnecessary Suffering…
What’s it all about…???“”I love to take pictures. These are pictures I have taken recently. Almost all the pictures I like to take are of what I cannot own if that makes sense. I love what we have been given by our Creator. It is mine (bought it) but it isn't mine. I am using what was created for a time and I value it.””Makes perfect sense to me…as does the following…“”I may be poor in materialism, but I feel very wealthy in what I got instead, even if I have to remind myself daily because of all the suffering caused by those who believe in THINGS (that makes me very angry sometimes) as opposed to people, truth, and Spirit. 
LEGALIZE FREEDOM””***Moody Blues - Tuesday Afternoon (1970) Moody Blues - Nights In White Satin´67 Moody Blues – Question - From the Royal Albert Hall, October 6, 2008. Question reached a # 1 position in the Dutch charts in 1970
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Comment #19 posted by FoM on October 27, 2010 at 17:54:54 PT

I love to take pictures. These are pictures I have taken recently. Almost all the pictures I like to take are of what I cannot own if that makes sense. I love what we have been given by our Creator. It is mine (bought it) but it isn't mine. I am using what was created for a time and I value it.I was talking with a person on a non related forum and we got talking about music and how he had long hair and what music he liked. Long hair meant a statement of sorts to me back then.
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Comment #18 posted by museman on October 27, 2010 at 09:58:15 PT

Fom, Hope,
I've always thought of my hair as my 'spiritual antennae' - and the times that I experimented with short hair (brief periods when I had to to 'get a job') proved it to me. For a while there back in the seventies, most people (brothers) with long hair were about the only people other long hairs could trust. That changed when the conditions of prohibition, and the Status Quo forced some into addictions, and the others into the mainstream workforce. Nowadays long hair is meaningless except on a personal level (IMO). Around here for example, there a lot more long haired (at least in my generation) meth addicts than pot smokers. It makes for some uncomfortable associations some times.But as an antennae, I surely believe it is, even if some people with long hair don't know how to tune in to spiritual transmissions.Another reason why the long haired 'hippy' is a negative connotation used by the Status Quo to discredit another truth.I may be poor in materialism, but I feel very wealthy in what I got instead, even if I have to remind myself daily because of all the suffering caused by those who believe in THINGS (that makes me very angry sometimes) as opposed to people, truth, and Spirit.LEGALIZE FREEDOM
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Comment #17 posted by rchandar on October 27, 2010 at 07:06:39 PT:

I'm not going to attack Atty. Gen. Holder if only because he motioned to allow MMJ and that's a good step: how long even that motion lasts is questionable, I'd say it depends some on Obama getting re-elected.As for Proposition 19, I would say that the growing part will be unavoidable when the Federal axe comes down. Any court case will tend to favor their side. Selling and possession are a very different matter: Holder would be setting an unwanted precedent by treating California specially, sending Feds in to do a job that state police are traditionally commissioned for. There's just no way they could ever enforce the prohibition of sale and possession anymore, they'd have to send thousands of agents in to bust middlemen and users, and that's very unlikely because those people are needed elsewhere and aren't large in number.They depend on state police to enforce these laws. Prop 19 is a good idea because it's like saying that the state no longer has anything to do with it. That's true decriminalization.--rchandar
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Comment #16 posted by GeoChemist on October 27, 2010 at 03:46:12 PT

Let's see if I get a reply
But I won't hold my breath: As a tax-paying American Citizen I am deeply concerned over Attorney General Holder's comments regarding California's Proposition 19. Does the administration forget what the United States of America was founded on? I suggest the president and attorney general re-visit their undergraduate programs and take two courses; Economics 101 and American Government 101, especially the latter. If this proposition passes, I DEMAND my tax dollars stay out of California, I demand my tax dollars do NOT go towards thwarting the Will of the People. If you choose to navigate this slippery slope, rest assured you will have plenty of time to ponder your mistakes come 2012. You are the EMPLOYEES of the people, not the masters of them; I suggest you keep that in mind. The only thing transparent about this administration is the outright LIES. Good day.
Ps. a response isn't requested, it is DEMANDED.

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Comment #15 posted by Paint with light on October 25, 2010 at 22:09:18 PT

Defeating Big Brother like alcohol.
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Comment #14 posted by FoM on October 25, 2010 at 15:07:03 PT

You're so sweet. You will have long beautiful hair again too.I always thought of Samson in the Bible and when Delilah cut his hair how he lost his strength.
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Comment #13 posted by Hope on October 25, 2010 at 15:01:55 PT

Comment 11
I've had some wonderful friends and loved ones, male and female, over the years that were long hairs. They were beautiful. Like you, yourself!
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Comment #12 posted by FoM on October 25, 2010 at 13:42:29 PT

CNBC Marijuana USA Will Premiere December 8th
Published: Monday, October 25, 2010 "MARIJUANA USA," a CNBC Original, will premiere on Wednesday, December 8th at 9pm ET. The one hour documentary will repeat that evening at 10pm ET, 12am ET and 1am ET.The show will also re-air on the following dates:Thursday, December 9th at 8pm ET and 12am ETSunday, December 12th at 10pm ETMarijuana USAIn CNBC’s original documentary, "Marijuana USA," cannabis meets capitalism head on, as the world’s most commonly used illicit drug comes out of the shadows and into the mainstream. As more states pass laws permitting the use of marijuana for medicinal use, the once vilified weed is having its moment in the sun. Some hope–and others fear– the whole country may soon be going to pot.CNBC’s Trish Regan travels the country and finds that in many places, marijuana has shed its back-alley stigma. In Colorado, this thriving industry is infusing much-needed capital and jobs into a weak economy. It’s attracting savvy, young entrepreneurs who are re-branding pot as a natural herbal remedy that can be sold openly at a dispensary near you. Astonishingly, it’s regulated, licensed and taxed, just like any other legitimate product.But even in this bold new era of relaxed state laws, the drug remains in clear violation of federal laws. Law enforcement officers and federal officials vow they will not surrender. CNBC travels to the frontlines of America’s weed wars – from the fierce political campaign to legalize the drug in California to the ambitious air and ground campaign to search for marijuana plots deep in the mountainous terrain of eastern Kentucky."Marijuana USA" goes inside the rapidly changing business of a drug whose popularity – and profitability – is spreading like never before.
 About CNBC:
CNBC is the recognized world leader in business news, providing real-time financial market coverage and business information to more than 340 million homes worldwide, including more than 95 million households in the United States and Canada. The network's Business Day programming (weekdays from 5:00 a.m.-7:00 p.m. ET) is produced at CNBC's headquarters in Englewood Cliffs, N.J., and also includes reports from CNBC news bureaus worldwide. Additionally, CNBC viewers can manage their individual investment portfolios and gain additional in-depth information from on-air reports by accessing: http://www.cnbc.comMembers of the media can receive more information about CNBC and its programming on the NBC Universal Media Village Web site at: 2010 CNBC, Inc.
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Comment #11 posted by FoM on October 25, 2010 at 12:25:21 PT

I liked them all. I love the ones with longer hair. I have always been partial to men with longer hair because it means something special to me. 
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Comment #10 posted by FoM on October 25, 2010 at 12:23:06 PT

Marijuana on The Ballot
Marijuana On The Ballot: 6 States Moving Toward 'Legalization'October 25, 2010URL:
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Comment #9 posted by Hope on October 25, 2010 at 11:56:12 PT

comment 1
I love picture 7, from Mexico. 
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Comment #8 posted by Sam Adams on October 25, 2010 at 11:51:49 PT

MORE money
and of course the WOD brings more grants like the Byrne system, without any political approval or taxes needed locally.No more WOD, no more Byrne grants. Simple as that.
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Comment #7 posted by Sam Adams on October 25, 2010 at 11:50:46 PT

Feds, the way it works
in my town the PD recently installed surveillance cameras in the small downtown area. Some people got angry because the cameras were purchased and installed without any approval from the town govt. or residents. The PD received a $25,000 grant from "Homeland Security" for cameras and had them installed.So that means the police chief got the $25,000 check and spent it on a video/lighting contractor. They probably paid 2 or 3 times what it would cost in the private sector to have them installed, the police chief probably gets about 10% kickback so that's a nice $2,500 pile of cash for the chief. Without having to get a budget approved or having to ask for a tax increase.Now you see why they like the Feds so much. 

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Comment #6 posted by por1 on October 25, 2010 at 11:38:11 PT:

never fails to bring a smile or in this case uncotrolable laughter
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Comment #5 posted by runruff on October 25, 2010 at 11:14:01 PT

Why they walk funny?
Their "nads" have been purchased by said agencies!They are, "de-nadded"!
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Comment #4 posted by por1 on October 25, 2010 at 10:19:46 PT:

“impedes the achievement of the federal objective,
namely preventing the sale of illegal drugs.
Fedral drug laws are null and void under the constitution namely the tenth amendment.
A sherrif of any given county is the highest police officer in any given county.He at any time can tell the feds [DEA FBI IRS] that they have to go through him and even refuse to allow them to cunduct investigations or exicute warrents without his permition.He can Refuse them permition.Of course finding one with the nadds to do it is another thing 
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Comment #3 posted by museman on October 25, 2010 at 09:17:01 PT

I agree. Money, however is just a tool, and device of the supreme motivation of power and control. Racism is just an excuse, along with many others (all 'conditions' and philosophies that don't go along with the Status Quo) to have that power and control -and to exemplify and exalt the elite class who controls- -music not available at this time- 
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Comment #2 posted by Brandon Perera on October 25, 2010 at 07:58:56 PT:

racism and money
They love war and fighting, arguing. Never ending. we gotta end it
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Comment #1 posted by FoM on October 25, 2010 at 07:40:59 PT

Globe Toking: The Most Marijuana-Friendly Nations
Newsweek Photos:
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