Cannabis Country?

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  Cannabis Country?

Posted by CN Staff on April 01, 2010 at 08:23:42 PT
By Glenda Anderson, The Press Democrat 
Source: Press Democrat 

California -- Mendocino County's economic future may rest with a marijuana-fueled version of Wine Country, complete with tasting rooms, bud boutiques and pot-garden tourism."It's the only thing we have that brings money into the county," said Mendocino County Supervisor John Pinches, who believes that marijuana accounts for at least half of the county economy.
Estimates of the value of the county's pot crop range from $1.2 billion to $4.4 billion. In comparison, the county's total taxable retail sales were $1.3 billion in 2007, according to the Center for Economic Development at CSU Chico.Pinches is one of many in the county who believe now is the time to start planning on how to capitalize on Mendocino's famous crop, should it become legal.Local marijuana proponents and opponents alike widely believe legalization is inevitable, that regulation of the plant will be crucial to keeping it out of the hands of children and that taxation could boost county coffers and help offset the criminal and societal costs of making pot more widely available.A measure that has qualified for the statewide ballot in November would make it legal for anyone over 21 to possess up to an ounce of marijuana and to grow it for personal use. Commercial operations would require government approval. It also would authorize local governments to regulate and tax pot, which remains a primarily underground economy despite being legal for medicinal use.A Field Poll conducted in 2009 indicated 56 percent of Californians favor legalization. But marijuana would remain illegal under federal law, so it's unclear how passage of the measure would play out.Nevertheless, the initiative has sparked speculation and debate over its possible effects. Some pot growers fear legalization will cause a precipitous drop in pot prices, while others see new business opportunities for counties that have a head start on name recognition.A public forum on the future of marijuana was held in Humboldt County last week, and another is planned in Mendocino County this month. The two counties, along with Trinity County, comprise the world-famous "Emerald Triangle" and rank among the state's top marijuana producers.The April 24 forum, "The Future of Cannabis in Northern California," will be held at the Saturday Afternoon Club in Ukiah. It's sponsored by marijuana advocates but will include law officials and business representatives."It affects our community, and it's time to have the discussion," said Bert Mosier, the chief executive officer of the Ukiah Chamber of Commerce and a scheduled speaker.Visions for the future include marijuana smoking salons where people who are 21 or older could sample Mendocino County's best weed."I definitely think if they legalize it, that would be a market," said Matthew Cohen, who heads a medical marijuana cooperative near Ukiah.Tours of marijuana cooperative gardens also could attract visitors to the county, he said.It would be "exactly like wine tasting," said Wendy Roberts, a Mendocino business consultant and candidate for the county Board of Supervisors. Like many in Mendocino County, she worries about societal problems, including children having increased access to marijuana, but also believes legalization is inevitable and necessary for limiting its use to adults.Advocates say Mendocino County is ideally situated to benefit from marijuana-related tourism because it's known worldwide for the quality and quantity of its product.Pot now is cultivated throughout the state, but Mendocino County remains among the top five producers of marijuana seized by law authorities. More than 450,000 marijuana plants were seized in Mendocino County during the state's annual pot-eradication effort in 2009, according to law officials. That's just about 10 percent of the 4.4 million marijuana plants seized in the state.Mendocino County Sheriff Tom Allman estimates that only about 10 percent to 15 percent of the pot grown in the county is eradicated each year. That estimate is widely used to compute the value of the crop. The top estimate of $4.4 billion is based on a conservative assumption that each plant produces one pound of marijuana valued at $1,000, said Ellen Komp, of North Coast NORML -- National Organization for the Reform of Marijuana Laws. In fact, they can produce several times that much, she said.Currently, an ounce of marijuana sells for $150 to $500 an ounce, said Aaron Smith, California policy director for the Washington-based Marijuana Policy Project.A California Board of Equalization analysis estimates that legalizing and taxing pot in California could yield $1.4 billion in revenue if a $50-per-ounce levy were to be placed on retail sales in addition to sales tax.Sales taxes alone would yield $392 million, according to the report.The Board of Equalization analysis takes into consideration that prices will fall if pot is legalized. It estimates a drop of 50 percent, but states that consumption could increase by 40 percent as a result of the price drop.The decline in prices is expected to take much of the profit out of pot, a concern for some underground operators. They also fear that big tobacco companies will step in and begin growing pot on farmland in the Central Valley, effectively killing North Coast production.Smith, of the Marijuana Policy Project, believes prices will drop, but not as dramatically as some growers fear. "There's no reason to be concerned that the industry will go away," he said. Local growers who create niche markets, like organic and hand-picked marijuana, should do well, Smith said.Many proponents of legalization say a drop in pot prices would be good. "It's way too expensive," said Mike Johnson, who runs a Mendocino County medicinal cannabis club. It would be more accessible for people who really need it for medicinal purposes if it was cheaper, he said.Proponents of legalization say a decline in profit also would deter pot-related crime. Law enforcement officials don't buy the argument."You're still going to have a black market," said Mendocino County Sheriff's Capt. Kurt Smallcomb.Of the estimated 8.6 million pounds of marijuana grown in California in 2006, only 1 million pounds was consumed within the state, according to the Board of Equalization analysis.That means most of it is being exported to other states, where it would remain illegal unless the federal government decriminalizes marijuana. The exports will remain illegal and untaxed and continue to attract criminals to the state, law officials said."There's always going to be crime, greed and violence associated with marijuana, whether it's legal or not. Anyone who thinks otherwise is kidding themselves," said Sheriff Allman.Mendocino County Supervisor John McCowen, who favors legalization if it's nationwide, said state legalization will not bring the kind of business citizens want."The tourists already are coming here. Unfortunately, they're bringing guns with them," he said.Source: Press Democrat, The (Santa Rosa, CA)Author: Glenda Anderson, The Press DemocratPublished: April 1, 2010Copyright: 2010 The Press DemocratContact: letters pressdemo.comWebsite: -- Cannabis Archives 

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Comment #60 posted by FoM on April 04, 2010 at 16:33:01 PT
What makes a good person good? That's a great question. People that are selfish and so obsessed with doing in other people for believing differently then they do are not what I call good people. Good people are empathetic in my opinion. 
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Comment #59 posted by rchandar on April 04, 2010 at 15:59:06 PT:
We Are The World
Yeah, great. I believe we even got Ronnie to sing it when they did "Hands Across America." Those were different times. Different in the sense that racism held a much greater official sanction than it does today. I don't think that when it comes to race that Americans are very good at "social responsibility." I include myself in the bunch. I was raised in an illusion of whiteness, and found life difficult when I had to admit that many of the characteristics of my social behavior and personality--and outlook--were and are, Black.The message is timeless, especially today. What, exactly, is good enough for all of us? What would construe us as happy humans who could "coexist?" We have an old psychology--smile for the camera and waddle the finger for hours at home. The sheer amount of mudslinging that goes on in our society calls me to surmise a few basic details?Have you ever struggled for a meal, ever?
Do these foreign people really threaten your existence? And what, exactly, are they depriving you of?
Does our legalization really pose a "threat" to your existence, you that have plenty of money and all basic needs are met?
But more importantly--what does it take for you, in your opinion, to be a good human being? Service? Faith in God? Obedience to the laws of the current system? What makes a good person "good"? The only disappointing thing about the younger generation is that they breathe and laugh in the illusion of our sickness--there are some who clearly have risen and reflect the progress of a great civilization, but too many of them resort to the postmodern melancholy that we couldn't solve well, either. I could be wrong.--rchandar
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Comment #58 posted by FoM on April 04, 2010 at 13:46:39 PT
I understand what you are saying. You made me think of this great song from years ago.We Are the World - Lionel Richie, Tina Turner, Michael Jackson URL:
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Comment #57 posted by rchandar on April 04, 2010 at 13:18:06 PT:
Modern life is like that; the world is not going away, and probably very few of us saw it coming.When I was a kid, it was unchallenged, unthinkable, and undeduceable: America, hands down, was the best. That won't be possible anymore, to proclaim one's society over all others because the economy was good to other regions of the world.As a kid, I went to India three times. I was awestruck by the widespread poverty and sickness, the disorder, all of that. I last went back in 2005. It has changed considerably: there are a lot more people with money and they spend on Western goods. There are a lot more people with an education. India has a middle class of about 200 million now; back then, maybe 30 million. China has done even better--without democracy. No, the Tea Party stuff will crumble eventually because they're not making a good case that they know how to style the kind of American prosperity and diplomatic greatness we haven't had since Clinton left office ten years ago.Obama is wise. We will re-gain the world, by working with it, and treating our foes as equals, not as servants.--rchandar
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Comment #56 posted by FoM on April 04, 2010 at 05:06:41 PT
I can't respond about everything you said because I don't know the answers. I know that the true colors of the right leaning people have surfaced. They loved Bush even though he took us into a war based on untruths. I don't listen to them. These people don't love Americans but they love their political party like it is a religion. I agree with you that God loves all people not just people who live in our country. Believing God favors us is a very arrogant statement.
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Comment #55 posted by rchandar on April 04, 2010 at 00:14:15 PT:
Still One More
A kid yelled at me yesterday claiming that "America is the best country because God loves us best!"My family is from another country. America is a great country. I always hated the invokation of God in support of one country over all the others. I always felt that such a statement is hopelessly and unbelievably unjust and stupid.
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Comment #54 posted by rchandar on April 04, 2010 at 00:11:28 PT:
Obama is our President, He's A Good Leader, But...
...but on top of it all, they just busted a ring of people who were plotting to kill him. At some point, somewhere Barack will look very coldly at the barefaced statements against his life, his Presidency, and his mission to America, and he will be keenly interested in stripping these kinds of people of any voice or any say in anything. I was happy that the Kennedy Act did make it into law, and the Hate Crimes Act. Both were stabs at a GOP whose recent tactics and ideology was shameless, horrid, and disgustingly racist. The statement, why should we trust 'em? They had ten years to do what they were saying!" was a clear retort. A lot of public interest was placed on this Presidency producing positive results, and the disillusioned fashion of the public was met with the cartel stuff at a crucial time, a leading time when people were looking for something to go by, to trust. The press did a massive job of portraying us as distorted monsters with very evil and sadistic ideas, and only time will allow us to answer them.I'm not saying that anarchy is imminent. I will say that President Obama must rebuild his position against a purely irrational and anti-intellectual world of trickery and racial cartoonisms. Bad decisions by the right can either soak the public in a jingoistic languor, or force people to admit that "change" is "necessary." Americans, in my opinion, have often been poor in owning up to problems in their society or the fact that their logic isn't infallible. At least, that seems commonplace in politics: everyday citizens are often reasonable and just, but the snuff of government power makes human rights sadly negotiable.--rchandar
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Comment #53 posted by rchandar on April 03, 2010 at 23:57:02 PT:
FoM, others
...any clip or articles about what our side is trying to do to get the bill passed? I do hope we hear from the people working for the bill's passage, and so on......i left a previous posts, two things. First is that the bill would probably simply strike down the current law and the $100 penalty. On the plus side, Holder spoke against raids against MMJ dispensaries and growers. Passage would not change the dynamic much, and it would theoretically be impossible and a waste of Obama's time to try to prove that Federal law trumps state law. Distribution is another thing: an easy target for Feds, and within their legal jurisdiction. The end result: court cases! Lots of 'em! People, it is a CHALLENGE to the Federal law, and many people will look at it that way! There will be a court case early in the frame of passage and inclusion: someone who's a narc buying on the street and proclaiming the unwillingness of State officers to do anything that they're, ahem, supposed to do......the case would probably opt on our side by exonerating police from a responsibility that their state does not force them to enforce. That is true, and yet it does not protect everyone. California will face these kinds of confrontations in the future, because state's rights do not guarantee that the Feds will, say, f #k off or anything......I can't beleaguer Obama for having to make decisions where the press, expensive ad campaigns, and irate citizens spoonfed on an old system that didn't work repeatedly encourage him to back an unpopular "war." In the kingmaking of Democratic Presidents, WoD is a frequent litmus test that conservatives throw down to reinstall "confidence" in "keeping America American." Clinton was a roguish Drug Warrior: the past year has easily taught us that Obama is not immune to these egoistic truisms of American society. We might sit back and believe that the economy's recovery would aid our position. It's more likely that the blistering series of big grandstanding takedowns promised to the Obama generation by irate conservatives determined to fashion superiority and inequity will have an effect on the justice of his governing hand, when it comes to WoD. The cartel war in Mexico was an obvious statement of fact: it was given constant airing and was repeatedly in the news. Drug War hysteria is definitely NOT a thing of the past, and we should know that. Obama promised us no "perestroika." We will have to continue to convince people and grow the electorate of MJ legalization, until it is clearly a force which cannot be dismissed or ignored. The offset results are saddening and our webmaster posted to that effect three days ago: Clinton made that conversion to vigorous "Drug Warrior" in 1994, and the number of arrests tripled in only three years. It is also clear that Barack is more sensitive and fair about the "drug problem" than Bill was, but the constant vitriol of the past nine months or so is disturbing. A commentator had the following to say about Obama's acceptance of the Nobel Peace Prize: "the first part was really inspiring and excellent, but to justify fighting a war without giving any effort to talk about peace was outrageous." (loose translation) The problems mitigating against liberal drug policy are obvious and have been repeated by every Presidency: liberal on sex, entertainment, petty crimes, even murder. But never, ever, on drugs. In Dante's level of Hell, MJ legalization sits on the eighth level, just above terrorism. Guess who's on the eighth level?Conversely, they can never truly effect "change" without us, and that is of some comfort. To maintain an old, Victorian system where pleasure is bad has failed in virtually every country in the world. The leaders know it, and every couple of years they recycle some old ideas and call them new, and when they don't work out there are always enough sensational baubles to keep the public amused and disinterested in something which never happens. The promise of "war" on your own people is a resilient sickness which America has yet to learn much from, and the notion that repression and punishment can make a society good and just is something that postmodern, medic subjects are repeatedly taught to accept passively. To fix the basic mechanism, a whole damn lot of our psychology would have to be thrown out: most of our notions of entitlement and immunity from the outside world, and many of our notions about culture itself. These aren't problems that also will go away easily: even should we score MJ legalization some day, surely we will never create a world in which everyone will acknowledge the value or the right of smoking MJ. A good deal of "modernity" is premised on the idea that authority has the right to take people's freedoms away, and that's simply because after so many thousands of years, human nature hasn't improved much. It has improved some, which means that freedom remains very interpretable and a government could easily have success by doing what we aren't happy with......damn. You know, if MJ legalization were the only thing America was doing wrong, this would be a lot easier!--rchandar
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Comment #52 posted by The GCW on April 03, 2010 at 22:07:26 PT
CAL news. Aim to Kill Cannabis InitiativeBy Matt Coker, OCWeekly - Friday, April 2 2010 "Parents, grandparents and concerned citizens of California have filed paperwork to form a political action committee to defeat the November initiative that will help legalize marijuana," announced a group of busybodies known as Citizens Against Legalizing Marijuana (BUZZKILL).Sorry, that should have read CALM."Our children's future is at stake: they will see smoking marijuana as harmless and use will go up leading to increased high school dropouts, gangs, crime, drugged driving and a myriad of other social problems," says CALM's president and joyless spinster, Carla Lowe.The, ahem, grass-roots movement (shouldn't that be grass-killing movement?) understands legalization proponents plan to spend $20 million on television ads to educate the masses. They hope CALM can try to match this through small donations from thousands of spoil sports.Cont.
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Comment #51 posted by Hope on April 03, 2010 at 13:55:51 PT
LEO faction that is against MMJ
It sounds like they might need arresting, themselves.It sounds like like they are breaking the law and terrorizing and imprisoning law abiding citizens.It sounds like they are a danger to a free people.
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Comment #50 posted by herbdoc215 on April 03, 2010 at 12:40:13 PT
Theres are people trying to help...
But these are all different cases in the same place concurrently, the LEO faction that is against MMJ are running buck wild here in the inland empire and there are court cases flying left and right...Richard calls it "Stealth Terrorism", as many here are scared to crap right now? 
seems like the old days again as I thought all this bs had been settled by now? I still can't believe their are patients who have been sitting in jail for months on charges the district attorney knows good and well are going to be dropped. Looks to me like they are beating the dog to cower the lion again! I guess I'm going to have to break out the ole tent and do some more jail sitting myself if this crap keeps up? peace, steve
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Comment #49 posted by Hope on April 03, 2010 at 11:15:55 PT
We don't need vigilantes out to hurt people.
But Vigil Lanterns being carried by sympathizers walking up and down the sidewalk might have a positive effect on the situation and might be a positive way to deal with this sort of thing all over.Maybe.
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Comment #48 posted by Hope on April 03, 2010 at 11:11:08 PT
The patient in jail
It seems that supporters ought to maintain a vigil outside the jail demanding his release.Surely, at least thirty people could volunteer that would maintain the vigil holding protest signs, at least eight or twelve hours a day. It would be nice if a twenty four hour vigil of at least ten people could be maintained.
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Comment #47 posted by herbdoc215 on April 03, 2010 at 10:01:09 PT
SAN BERNARDINO - A San Bernardino medical marijuana patient is languishing in county jail as prosecutors pursue charges against him for possessing and cultivating the controversial drug.Supporters of 51-year-old Don Lawrence say he was a patient at the THCF Medical Clinic in Riverside when police arrested him in October at his home. He had 12 marijuana plants, an amount police said exceeded state guidelines.
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Comment #46 posted by Hope on April 03, 2010 at 08:52:49 PT
Universer, I hope people read that. you. That's a good find and may be important.
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Comment #45 posted by Universer on April 02, 2010 at 21:34:36 PT
OT: editorial labels WoD a 'failure'
Among his more trenchant quotes:"We need to have a public discussion of the obvious: Legalize drugs or keep caging Americans for taking drugs -- unless of course they are booze, tobacco or happy pills from the doctor -- and keep financing the murders of Mexicans."..."Recently, the secretaries of State, Homeland Security and Defense flew to Mexico City and promised the Mexican government we would continue exactly the same polices as in the past. I have been told I should be reasonable. I am. And I expect the same of my government. Building prisons and lending support to a murderous war on drugs must stop, and digging deep into the economics and politics behind the hellish state of affairs must begin."
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Comment #44 posted by Hope on April 02, 2010 at 20:17:08 PT
I'm glad you still have some fight in you, Herbdoc
We're going to need it. It's going to be a rough year. The antis that won't come to their senses are still extremely powerful and they're going to fight tooth and toenail to keep these prohibition laws from being changed.Jail. Dang. It's so wrong for people to be imprisoned over having or wanting to use the cannabis plant.
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Comment #43 posted by The GCW on April 02, 2010 at 18:04:48 PT
Just read
Hawaii Kills Medical Marijuana Dispensary Measure
By Mark Niesse, The Washington Post - Friday, April 2 2010 
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Comment #42 posted by herbdoc215 on April 02, 2010 at 18:01:39 PT
Hope, I guess that fits me better than I want:)
  I have always been a red-neck country boy and make no shame of it, no matter how long I went to school or how far away or how hard I tried to make it go away the Kentucky has never left me. So many people have placed their trust and knowledge in my care I couldn't name them all and this is a sacred duty to me, I am standing on the shoulders of many!
  I know many of my big city friends think my ways are strange and I talk funny, but over the years I have learned to turn that around on them to show them that if my dumb-ass can do this stuff then anybody can. I keep coming back to the faces of so many friends I have lost over the years doing this, so much joy and so much sadness? 
  All the fight left in me is for them, for those whom didn't get all the lucky breaks I have, and the fact that people are talking about legalizing cannabis for recreational use while patients are sitting in jail tonight shocks me to my core, at least they could let us clear the wounded from the battlefield? peace, steve 
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Comment #41 posted by konagold on April 02, 2010 at 17:30:38 PT
maximizing commerical yields
in the comment 35 example I ignored the fact that if: one has year round growing conditionsone manipulates the light cycle by adding minimal 24/7 florescent light to outdoor growing areas so that plants don't flower and become sized independent of the time of year[also they immediately start budding when put in a 12 or 13 hour daylight cycle] then based on a 120 day growing cycle and starting clones every 17 days one could rotate 1/7th of the acreage and get 20 harvest per year or nearly three times the total harvest previously exampled nearly 30,000,000 pounds from 1000 acres [if one had true 60 day plants then it would be double]because these kinds of poundage would become commercially available the idea that some seasoned Mendocino back wood farmer will be able to make a living is, in the long term, delusional 
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Comment #40 posted by Hope on April 02, 2010 at 15:37:58 PT
I was thinking of all the things you've been. A wanted fugitive in a foreign land. A prisoner of the state. Even a gold miner. There's no putting a label on you. Cept maybe Herbdoc.
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Comment #39 posted by Hope on April 02, 2010 at 15:32:36 PT
You may be well traveled
and well read, well educated, and brilliant in so many ways... but ... that thing. That quiet thing. I know a redneck boy doesn't have to mean a idiot of some sort. I always think of a redneck as a working man... his redneck comes from the sun beating on him as long as there is daylight, usually ... a man of the land. A man that's better at thinking and doing than talking. But some people think it means some kind of mean idiot. It doesn't. Not to me, anyway.
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Comment #38 posted by Hope on April 02, 2010 at 15:27:53 PT
Say it, Herbdoc.
You're a redneck!One that knows a fantastic lot about the cannabis plant, but a redneck boy just the same.:0)
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Comment #37 posted by The GCW on April 02, 2010 at 15:16:37 PT
Aloha,Thanks for that input in comment #35.Cannabis should perhaps be price about like good tea.-0-And if anyone is in the Boulder Colorado area this is a nice teahouse worth visiting.Boulder Dushanbe Teahouse include tea prices-0-Also in the news:US CO: Denver hosts major cannabis convention
 Webpage: — Representatives of the medical marijuana industry from across the country and two foreign countries are expected at the Colorado Cannabis Convention.The event Friday and Saturday at the Colorado Convention Center in Denver is expected to include participants from Holland and Italy and more than 300 booths featuring businesses and products. Elected officials will participate in a town hall meeting.Cont.
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Comment #36 posted by konagold on April 02, 2010 at 15:11:39 PT
should read $2 per pound for UN-MANICURED buds
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Comment #35 posted by konagold on April 02, 2010 at 15:04:23 PT
how prolific is pot per acre
"If farmers in Modesto get to put up a fence around a 1000 acre corn field and are allowed all the necessary water, with tractors and cheap mexican labor that 1000 acres is going to be capable of producing something like 30,000-40,000 lbs. In that case the price goes down to a few dollars per oz." above feminized seed claims a 22% THC and 450 grams per Square meter per harvest and a 60 day growth periodfiguring 3 harvest per year and that there are about 4,000 sq meters per acre [1 acre = 4 046.85642 square meters]assuming that out of 1000 acres there are 800 crop acres [area devoted only to growing and not to roads paths irrigation lines etc] then 4000 sq/mtr times 450 grams per meter equals 1,800,000 grams; divided by 454 grams per pound equals 3964.75 per acre per harvest; times 3 harvest equals 11,894 pounds per acre per year; times 800 crop acres equals 9,515,400 pounds per year not 30 to 40 thousand poundsNINE AND A HALF MILLION POUNDS FROM 1000 ACRES that is the great fraud of prohibition and profiteering that Cannabis is so prolific that its real value is like that of any produce a couple of bucks a POUND for manicured budsTHE RETURN TO THE FARMER IN THE ABOVE AT $2 PER POUND IS $19 MILLION OFF OF 1000 ACRESwhat is the gross income from a 1000 acres of grapes?? according to the above grapes gross about $6,000 per acre or $6,000,000 per 1000 acres per year; or one third the value of 1000 acres of cannabis sold at $2 per pound 
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Comment #34 posted by herbdoc215 on April 02, 2010 at 14:26:56 PT
sorry I'll try harder to mind the china in the future :) I sometimes say things out of frustration in a way that doesn't translate from my hillbilly to normal well??? peace, steve 
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Comment #33 posted by konagold on April 02, 2010 at 14:24:29 PT
skill to grow
"BUT not everybody can grow the killer or it wouldn't be worth what is worth"BULLPUCKYthe difference in growing good pot is mainly in the genetics not the excessive pamperingcommercial farmers can grow excellent tomatoes in mass[some will claim home grown are better but most often this is due to vine harvesting at the peak of ripeness rather than variety or growing methods] if one can mass produce high quality tomatoes one can mass produce flavorful high THC potnot to toot my home turf and to sponsor state rivalry the tropics are more potent grounds to grow high quality cannabis due to the greater percentage of ultraviolet sunlightFlorida and Southern Calif. and Hawaii will be the best growing areas Hawaii being able to give year round harvestthe mystique that only certain folks can produce quality pot is a myth grown mostly between the ears of the ego deluded
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Comment #32 posted by Hope on April 02, 2010 at 14:18:47 PT
With a brick
tied to it's tail.
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Comment #31 posted by Hope on April 02, 2010 at 14:17:13 PT
You do have a way with words, Herbdoc.
Kind of like a bull with a broomstick in a china closet.:0)
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Comment #30 posted by herbdoc215 on April 02, 2010 at 12:19:37 PT
EAH, do we know each other?
As that is some of the most logical and knowledgeable information I've ever seen posted free from superstition and hippy bs as anybody I've seen in quite a while from our side, you must at least be a fellow scientist? Keep up the good work as your 50x more eloquent they I! peace, steve
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Comment #29 posted by EAH on April 02, 2010 at 12:14:20 PT:
# 25 Not so sure about that
AFAIK, cannabis varieties were regional and indigenous. There's little evidence of any movement of seed strains around the world till the 70's. People had what was local. There's also no evidence that indigenous people did much in the way of breeding. How could they? They did not have a diverse gene pool to select from. Africa had its types, Central and South America had it types, Central Asiahad its types and so on. If you were in a village in any of these regions, you had your local variety and that's it. How could you possibly do any breeding?International movement of seeds really began in the 70s. Most of the breeding started in California, it eventually moved to Holland and then Canada too. Now there's breeding going on to various degrees all over, although most breeders are working with polluted gene pools. California breeding was 
relatively orderly and scholarly prior to 1982. That's when Reagan began 
CAMP. For the next 12 years the main growing areas would come under serious attack by goons in helicopters. The intensity of those raids seriously disrupted breeding programs that were underway. Notes, records and seeds
were lost or mixed up. Between those disruptions and all the amateur 
breeding going on, everything got pretty screwed up. Meanwhile the worldwide drug war was screwing up the indigenous areas too. Many tribal areas and source areas for original strains got raided and disrupted.
Despite all that, we've managed to do OK, but imagine if all the BS had never happened, we'd have really well documented and top notch pure strains today.
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Comment #28 posted by FoM on April 02, 2010 at 11:44:23 PT
Wash. Justices To Hear Case of Fired Pot Patient
April 2, 2010URL:
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Comment #27 posted by The GCW on April 02, 2010 at 10:49:44 PT
Cops and thier unions work for job security and all but this story is line nothing I've ever read before.Lake County sheriff's officials haul out cuffs in turf war with fire department"two deputies handcuffed a fire department captain who was trying to treat a woman with a broken neck."cont.
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Comment #26 posted by ripit on April 02, 2010 at 10:32:10 PT
thanks granny!!
much appreciated info!
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Comment #25 posted by Storm Crow on April 02, 2010 at 09:56:09 PT
Re- comments 21 &24 
In a way, both of you are right. Humans have been breeding cannabis for thousands of years, not just the past few decades! We happen to like the THC that is so easy to breed for. (Cut, dry, try- if it's "good" you keep the seeds, if not it's chicken food! Even a cave man could do it!)Breeding for THC is an ancient practice! But this has come at the expense of the CBD (cannabidiol) which is also important as a major healing cannabinoid. There is a precursor chemical in cannabis that is changed into either THC, or CBD, or a mixture of the two, depending on the plant's genetics. CBD does not get you high. It's mental effects are very subtle- a gentle calming effect. It is a LOT harder to breed for this healing cannabinoid. The lack of CBD in our high THC cannabis is the reason we have so many noobies having panic attacks! CBD's calming balances the THC high! Our modern cannabis often lacks all but the tiniest trace of CBD! So even that good old Mex Brick weed (ah, some fond memories there!) is the result of thousands of years of genetic selection for high THC, low CBD plants. Our modern cannabis, whether intensively bred hybrids, or open pollination brick weed, is usually deficient in CBD genes!I predict we will be "mining" the fiber and seed strains for high CBD strains to use for medicinal purposes. Those strains have been bred for fiber length and strength, or oil levels and size for seeds, not chemical content! They should have their CBD genes intact. For more information on CBD and it's wide variety of medical uses, please go to and scroll down to "CANNABIDIOL/CBD". It is pretty amazing stuff- even if it doesn't get you high! 
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Comment #24 posted by ripit on April 02, 2010 at 07:01:46 PT
yo bud.i'm sorry but as far as i'm concerned 20 years isn't enuf time to breed out all the gentics of original strains.the (it's not yer fathers pot!)bullshit just don't really fly with me! if ya want somthin ffrom back in the day i bet that just about any of the mexican brick is pretty much still the same as it was back thirty years ago! still looks an tastes the same to me!! ya can't tell me that because a few bright an insightful ppl crossed a watermelon plant wit a cantalope and now every melon is now a waterlope!think about it!!! };þ
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Comment #23 posted by runruff on April 02, 2010 at 05:06:38 PT
"Home Grown Bud."
There is a new bud in town. It is called Universe God Bud/Purple Haze.Grown right they produce 5-10 pounds of cured buds per plant. High quality,sweet smelling and potent.I will post some video on Youtube soon so you can see for yourself.
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Comment #22 posted by Paint with light on April 01, 2010 at 21:05:47 PT
What about legal imports?
If cannabis is eventually legalized what part will foreign product play?Will Mexico and all the other producing regions from around the word be able to participate in a free market system?Will Thai sticks be available?Or should it be a domestic only market?Legal like alcohol but with the same global variety?
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Comment #21 posted by kenincali on April 01, 2010 at 20:07:26 PT:
Home Grown Bud.
I think we as humans always tend to want to make things better. I am not so sure that boosting the THC is necessarily a good thing. I would like to try a plant the way it was intended to be, I doubt anyone in our generation has ever had a pure strain before. For me as an MMJ user, I feel that it would be best if left as nature intended. I'm not saying there isn't a place for high end bud, but I have to wonder what all the tweaking is doing to the plant and its capability.Just my 2 cents.
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Comment #20 posted by FoM on April 01, 2010 at 17:21:22 PT
About Washington State
I think this is great. When I see Naturopaths I know we are headed in a good direction at least in Washington State. Thank you Governor!
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Comment #19 posted by FoM on April 01, 2010 at 17:11:12 PT

Update On Washington State
WA Governor Allows More To OK Medical Marijuana***The Associated PressWashington State Legislature April 1, 2010Olympia, Wash. -- More medical professionals will be allowed to authorize the use of medical marijuana for qualified patients under a measure signed into law by Gov. Chris Gregoire.Gregoire signed the bill Thursday and it takes effect June 10.It adds physician assistants, naturopaths, advanced registered nurse practitioners and others to the list of those who can officially recommend marijuana for patients under the state's medical marijuana law. Under previous law, only physicians were allowed to write the recommendation.---The medical marijuana measure is Senate Bill 5798. URL:
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Comment #18 posted by The GCW on April 01, 2010 at 16:36:49 PT

paying cops overtime to harm kids
A Denver Post story regarding the meeting where people testified and the testamony was used to help create rules about medical use in Colorado stated cops were there giving testamony AND GETTING PAID OVER TIME TO DO IT. -cops want to close dispensaries.I'd like it if everytime a cops speaks to a newspaper etc. We were informed if they were on the clock and if on the clock it was over time.The public should know and I think it would make a difference. Schools are facing layoffs, shorted class times, more students in classes etc. Cops compete with the money given to schools.And here in Colorado, Denver counties and Summit county and other's voted to RE-legalize cannabis for adults. Cops in areas where citizens voted to RE-legalize are paying them overtime to close dispensaries and while doing so are using money that schools need. They are in effect harming Our children. So We are paying cops overtime to harm kids...What about the cops in this story?
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Comment #17 posted by herbdoc215 on April 01, 2010 at 15:12:53 PT

This is the email I recieved about raid today?
This can't be legal can it?
update from Yes We Cannabis below...Good afternoon, We are slowly gathering more information about the actions of San Bernardino County Sheriffs and Chino Poice involved in a raid on a local medical cannabis collective, here are the updates so far... 1. On Tuesday evening, 15 minutes prior to closing as many as thirty officers in raid gear swarmed the facility through front and rear doors, badges were covered.
 2. Paper bags were placed over the cameras.
 3. Two operators, husband and wife, and eleven employees were on-site at the time and all were detained and arrested for possession of marijuana with intent to sell.
 4. All marijuana, computers, patient files, and some furniture was taken. 5. Currently ALL parties are being held on a four million ($4,000,000) bond, we are awaiting updates from attorneys and bail bondsmen today to see how they will proceed for release but a number of personal contacts are involved working to get the operators released. 6. Chino Police and San Bernardino County Sheriffs reportedely arrested patients as well, and in fact set up a checkpoint in the parking lot from which they searched and arrested a number of individuals who were coming to the collective yesterday. Arrests were
made for a variety of charges including simple possession.It is unfortunate to have to report news of this nature, but I am hopeful from the incredible response from all across Southern California and now the nation, we are working to coordinate a response
that is in-line with the desires of the operators, we will not stand idly by and let San Bernardino County stand on the rights of qualified patients.Take care and stay safe,Yours in solidarity,
I removed the name for Privacy reasons??? steve
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Comment #16 posted by Hope on April 01, 2010 at 13:58:31 PT

Comment 15
That's a shame.The only answer, for the safety and well being of everyone, is to change our laws prohibiting cannabis. Right away. As soon as possible. State and Federal prohibition laws all have to be changed. Legislators put them in place suddenly and quickly and they can change them just as suddenly and quickly as they made them.
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Comment #15 posted by herbdoc215 on April 01, 2010 at 12:52:24 PT

Hope, that is what we are trying to do!
But the own machine can't get out of it's own way? I'll start at the beginning for once...I've looked at HUNDREDS of empty factories as well as warehouses in SoCal in the last couple of months...all empty setting there rotting! Not one owned by a native born American (???) and not one producing anything but debt and rotting, no jobs nothing! 
Every owner, investor, person in the chain wants us to play ball there because we are bringing >200 good paying jobs with this vet  
co-op and they all want a piece? So as soon as we get things ready the local cops in this one county goes on a cowboy spree that nobody in local gov't knew about or were able to predict rounding up clubs yesterday and actually hassled a bunch of patients I've been told as they were I can see if the club was breaking the law to make them stop but they never say and sending swat and scaring the crap out of a bunch of old people sure isn't the way to do it.... so today all contracts, leases, and and tax revenue that ? county may have even seen just went up in a puff of outlaw LEO smoke as they seem to be the only ones who are not worried about where their next check is coming from here? There are empty factories across Socal...I hate to even imagine how bad it is in the rest of this country? My question is how do these counties control their own cowboy LEO's to allow research let alone production of medicines? peace, steve"Derelict areas with empty warehouses and factories
can be revived by having indoor growing set up in these already built buildings.This new legal business will be born, small or smallish, much like the medical dispensaries and head shops and grow from there in all the directions and ways that it should."
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Comment #14 posted by Hope on April 01, 2010 at 12:38:44 PT

And... that smile...
It wasn't all that sneery all the time. She did a pretty good job of trying to put on a friendly, likable face for the sake of the prohibitionists' cause. Pretty amazing, really.Nothing to do with how she really feels about the reality she's faced with... but pretty amazing anyway.
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Comment #13 posted by Hope on April 01, 2010 at 12:35:45 PT

Comment 10
Whoa! Calvina's been practicing smiling, I'd say. From what I've seen of her in, lo these many years, a smile is not a natural or easy expression for her. It's amazing how she managed to hold that smile through nearly the entire interview. I'm impressed.
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Comment #12 posted by EAH on April 01, 2010 at 12:31:30 PT:

"that is not a reflection of supply and/or demand but of quality."While this could esily turn into a long discussion similar to ones that happen on wine forums, I''ll respond in brief.The price of indoor is based first and foremost on the cost to produce it. It is very expensive in equipment, energy and space. The next reason is supply, and supply in two forms, even with multiple crops per year, there is less overall than than the amount of outdoor produced with its one seasonal harvest. Then also there is quality. Just like anything else there is good, average and bad indoor, which creates another supply limitation. Then there is demand, explanations of which can get complicated, but for a variety of reasons, demand for indoor is greater, which puts pressure on price. I can certainly discuss the reasons for the demand difference, but it has less to do with true objective quality and more to do with demographics and marketing and how over time prohibition caused certain trends.
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Comment #11 posted by Hope on April 01, 2010 at 12:22:40 PT

Derelict areas with empty warehouses and factories
can be revived by having indoor growing set up in these already built buildings.This new legal business will be born, small or smallish, much like the medical dispensaries and head shops and grow from there in all the directions and ways that it should.There will always be a need for very high grade, meticulously and scientifically grown medical cannabis and for the elite, highly sought after specialty buds. There should be room for the home grower and the big hemp farms and for indoor growing. I thought cannabis for it's effects had to be grown protected from hemp pollen. I think we'd want hemp farming legal. I keep thinking about all those empty warehouses and factories.The main thing, to me, though is you can call it what you want... legal, regulated, controlled... you can even call it illegal... as long as you stop arresting people over having it, growing it, giving it away, using it, buying it, selling it, or transporting it. No arresting. No raids. No killing. No jail. No forced treatment. No handcuffs. No mistreatment. No terrorizing. No breaking up families or lives. No seizing and forfeiture. Call it what you want to... just stop all that.
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Comment #10 posted by Had Enough on April 01, 2010 at 12:07:15 PT

Aaron Smith Debates Calvina Fay About TaxCannabis2010

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Comment #9 posted by Sam Adams on April 01, 2010 at 11:58:21 PT

this is a great discussion
so many new ideas, it's the dawn of a new day! on outdoor vs. indoor, I thought it was impossible outdoors to get the same calyx-to-leaf ratio as under HPS lighting. i.e., you'll never get the same tight, dense, clean nugs that we get today from indoor growers.But indoor growing doesn't have to cost much either, I can buy hydro tomatoes from Vermont in the middle of winter for very cheap. Tomatoes and cannabis are very similar in terms of growing requirements
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Comment #8 posted by FoM on April 01, 2010 at 11:07:31 PT

Just My Thought
Superb cannabis is just about in every state. When it becomes legal many people will grow it on farms. The price will drop because there will be an over supply. Then the people will benefit. People will be able to pick out what they prefer and still be happy with the price which will be very low. I am talking about legalization everywhere when I say this. 
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Comment #7 posted by herbdoc215 on April 01, 2010 at 10:42:59 PT

Here in Cali where it's been semi-legal for 14 yrs
the current wholesale price of indoor is  $3500-4000 lb for AAA and the price of outdoor starts at  $1200-1800 Lb and that is not a reflection of supply and/or demand but of quality...the ability to lift C02 rates and totally control purity and environmental factors such as metabolism of plants will make anything patients want to be of ISO2000 or better quality/purity, be grown indoors...especially when that is the only place to get a cannabis plant to give full expression of it's genome, without going into botanical explanations let's just say the ability of plants to make things (resin/THC/flavonoids/terpinoids) are directly tied to it's amount of Co2 in conjunction with light energy? I am sure the way all this is finally going to work out is way beyond any of our guess, some of us are just trying to assure that us patients are not going to be the ones whom get bulldozed by something we enabled??? peace, steve  
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Comment #6 posted by EAH on April 01, 2010 at 10:10:14 PT:

It depends
It will really depend on how pot is made legal. The price we have now is a direct result of prohibition, which has really limited production. Mendocino's dream requires certain things to happen with regard to licensing requirements. If farmers in Modesto get to put up a fence around a 1000 acre corn field and are allowed all the necessary water, with tractors and cheap mexican labor that 1000 acres is going to be capable of producing something like 30,000-40,000 lbs. In that case the price goes down to a few dollars per oz.Most any realistic and truly legal senario is going to have to have retail prices
that include any and all taxes and be below $40-$50 per oz or the black market will continue. That would not be hard to do but real commercial production is going to have to be allowed to do it. Average income people are going to need to be able to get it for $10-$20 an oz. Mendocino is going to have to be able to establish boutique "estate" type grower/producers doing handmade connoisseur type product, which will be like Napa producing
small lots of $50 per btl wine.Indoor has been all about prohibition. Without prohibition it becomes way too expensive to produce. Year round supply can easily be produced outdoors for way way cheaper. NOBODY grows wine grapes indoors, no matter what it
might sell for. Those super expensive French wines are produced in tiny amounts and are a minute segment of the wine market. Their price has to do with how little is made and how prestigious the wines are. It has little to do with cost to produce, or even relative quality. There are many wines virtually as good that cast much less.Sheriff Allman is an idiot.
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Comment #5 posted by Sam Adams on April 01, 2010 at 10:07:45 PT

job protection
>>"You're still going to have a black market," said Mendocino County Sheriff's Capt. Kurt Smallcomb.Is that a prediction or a promise? They'll only be black market if YOU the govt. sets taxes too high. As I predicted LEO will try to control this so that a black market is maintained. I think cannabis will be grown in Central Valley by huge companies, but cannabis is very different than tobacco. Wine is a much better analogy. Cheap-O wine can never compete with Kendall Jackson. The home growing provision is the critical thing to watch. It will always be the most-hated by LEO and govt. It's hated by LEO obviously because they can't bust anyone anymore or steal (seize) things. It's hated by govt. because they can't tax it and their corporate friends who bribe them can't make any money off it.There should be enough room for everyone! Plenty of room in the market for home boutique growing, outdoor boutique growing up North, and pre-packaged schwaggy cigs from Central Valley.The $50 tax is way too high IMO. Quality outdoor will be $50 or less per ounce. It's like gambling- around this area the govt. allows casinos, but only when they take 25% of the gross revenue. They're on both sides of that racket, they restrict gambling enough to drive people to mega-casinos and then tax the heck out of them when they get there. They will try to do the same here by setting the tax high IMO. High enough and they'll get all the tax money and still be able to raid black-market "moonshiners"this reminds of the 90's when some thought that new internet businesses would wipe out all the retailers. Some of that happened but mostly old businesses eventually did a much better job in cyberspace than new internet-only merchants.I think experience and human expertise is vastly under-rated.  The people who have been growing for years will do better than Marlboro executives in the cannabis business.and really it's not even possible to grow super high-quality organic on a large scale. Marlboro will need to fall back on their blue chemie ferts and toxic bug killers to preserve their margin. 
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Comment #4 posted by herbdoc215 on April 01, 2010 at 08:58:18 PT

Here are a couple examples from wine world?
Personally I can't for the life of me not see why some are not getting the price thing as bad as they are...Now I can go to Wal-Mart and get a BOX of wine for $10, and it will even get you drunk the same as a $500 bottle just less hangover and better taste now imagine that the $500 bottle was magic and got you like 50x more pleasantly drunk then the box wine then the price difference would be 1000x more? You can get mexican pretendica now  $400 a lb, been the same price since I was a kid and will probably always be the same price...BUT not everybody can grow the killer or it wouldn't be worth what is worth as everybody would already have it and the triangle would just be a bump in the road with mountains and no people as it was last place in USA that was settled for a purpose as Alaska had cities before the lost coast did due to transportation issues? Indoor and certain strains are going to be priced through the roof if this law passes the way it's written and I only pray they will leave patients out of this crap as we can barely afford it now BUT if anybody wants to bitch about prices please call Unimed and ask them why my Marinol script is   $9500/month for THC pills!!! There will always be a niche for hand done killer buds as not many have ever even seen them, let alone gotten the pleasure of connsuming them! peace, steve"Pétrus and Romanée Conti are the most expensive wines in France.A bottle of a new Petrus vintage cost about $1,000 minimum.Pétrus is a winery located in Pomerol, Bordeaux. Petrus is a red wine. Merlot is the dominant grape. Although Petrus does not have any ranking, the quality is the same as any first growth wines from Bordeaux." snipped...
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Comment #3 posted by tintala on April 01, 2010 at 08:55:01 PT:

Greed,crime and violence 
THe only thing that makes this association with cannabis is the "BLACK MARKET", I would say "There's always going to be crime, greed and violence associated with ALCOHOL, whether it's legal or not. Anyone who thinks otherwise is kidding themselves," ... alcohol is the one causing the "domestic violence". why are cops and politician in such denial about this?Just watch an episode of "COPS" and one will see the blatant proof of who runs and fights and who is passive.I have never seen a person with cannabis be violent or run on this reality show. But people with alcohol are violent and cause domestic abuse.
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Comment #2 posted by FoM on April 01, 2010 at 08:33:43 PT

Why The Big Difference in Price?
Excerpt: Currently, an ounce of marijuana sells for $150 to $500 an ounce, said Aaron Smith, California policy director for the Washington-based Marijuana Policy Project.I think a realistic cost for an ounce will be around $100 or lower. Why do they inflated the price in articles when everyone knows those prices will not hold in a legal cannabis industry?
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Comment #1 posted by HempWorld on April 01, 2010 at 08:32:07 PT

"There's always going to be crime, greed and
violence associated with marijuana"A bold faced lie uttered by the sheriff, to protect his job!
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