cannabisnews.com: End The Collateral Damage of MJ Misdemeanors End The Collateral Damage of MJ Misdemeanors Posted by CN Staff on February 19, 2009 at 20:51:32 PT By Lance Dickie, Seattle Times Editorial Columnist Source: Seattle Times Washington -- Companion measures in the state Legislature would make adult possession of small amounts of marijuana a civil infraction. The move would end the collateral damage misdemeanor convictions cause in personal lives, and save taxpayers millions of dollars. Put the savings into drug courts and public health.Two bills to decriminalize small amounts of marijuana appear doomed in the state Legislature. Timid politicians cost taxpayers millions. A dozen other states have concluded jail time for simple possession of marijuana is ruinous public policy. Oregon made that call almost four decades ago. In a time of imploding government budgets, Olympia is averting its eyes from easy savings. The criminal-justice expense is a substantial and grievous waste of tax dollars.Senate Bill 5615 and House Bill 1177 — sponsored by Sen. Jeanne Kohl-Welles, D-Seattle, and Rep. Dave Upthegrove, D-Des Moines — would reclassify adult possession of 40 grams or less of marijuana as a civil infraction. A $100 fine payable through the mail, like a parking ticket. Current law is a mandatory day in jail, and up to 90 days behind bars.The oversized penalty is just the start. A misdemeanor-marijuana conviction haunts an offender seemingly forever. Alison Holcomb, drug-policy director of the ACLU of Washington, said that record can lead to loss of employment, housing and federal financial aid for college.The proposal to reclassify 40 grams of marijuana — roughly two packs of cigarettes — from a misdemeanor to a class 2 civil infraction passed out of the Senate Judiciary Committee Wednesday with bipartisan support.At an earlier hearing, proponents, including the King County Bar Association, testified about the mistaken application of criminal sanctions to a public-health issue and the collateral damage of the convictions in personal lives. The misdemeanors get dragged into divorce and child-custody proceedings.The default position for opponents declares marijuana a gateway to harder illegal drugs. Increasingly that argument does not hold up to analysis and long-term studies.Cocaine users smoked marijuana. But the argument is turned on its head, according to professor Dale M. Lindekugel, of the Department of Sociology and Justice Studies at Eastern Washington University. Look instead at the number of people who try marijuana and go onto cocaine, and the percentage is small, Lindekugel said from his campus office.State Rep. Chris Hurst, D-Enumclaw, chair of the House Public Safety and Emergency Preparedness Committee, flatly declares no hearing will be held. He argues it would be irresponsible to move a piece of legislation forward before the federal government removes marijuana as a Schedule 1 controlled substance.Hurst, a decorated police veteran, said he supports such a change, but Washington state should not act ahead of the federal government. Doing so, he argues, could lull citizens into harm's way with zero-tolerance federal authorities, such as the Coast Guard or border agents.Hmmm. Mississippi, Maine, California, Oregon and Alaska, among others have survived. The feds may also have no interest in chippy law enforcement.Holcomb and the ACLU report more than 11,000 arrests for misdemeanor-marijuana possession in 2007 in Washington state. The courts entered 3,600 convictions and imposed over 16,000 days in jail. Police time, court time and jail time consumed approximately $7.6 million. Feel any safer?Two ACLU opinion polls found a majority of Washington residents divided between keeping a light penalty for small amounts used by adults and decriminalizing marijuana altogether.Take the step with lots of experience around the country. Invest the law-enforcement savings into drug courts and public health.Lance Dickie's column appears regularly on editorial pages of The Times.Complete Title: End The Collateral Damage of Marijuana Misdemeanors and Save Tax DollarsSource: Seattle Times (WA)Author: Lance Dickie, Seattle Times Editorial ColumnistPublished: Thursday, February 19, 2009Copyright: 2009 The Seattle Times CompanyContact: opinion seatimes.comWebsite: http://www.seattletimes.com/URL: http://drugsense.org/url/Ei9ylnthRelated Articles:Lawmakers Consider Expanding Marijuana Lawhttp://cannabisnews.com/news/thread24501.shtmlWA Lawmakers Considering Decreasing Pot Penalty http://cannabisnews.com/news/thread24473.shtml Home Comment Email Register Recent Comments Help Comment #37 posted by FoM on February 23, 2009 at 05:55:26 PT OT: Rookie Assemblyman Plans Trailblazing Bill http://www.sfexaminer.com/local/Rookie-assemblyman-plans-trailblazing-bill-40070267.html [ Post Comment ] Comment #36 posted by fight_4_freedom on February 21, 2009 at 16:34:09 PT ASA E-mail I Just Received Please join ASA and allies on Monday, February 23, for a peaceful protest in support of Charles C. Lynch and other federal medical cannabis defendants who are on trial, awaiting sentencing, or serving time in jail. Charles will soon be sentenced for operating a medical cannabis collective in Morro Bay, and faces decades in prison. He and other defendants need our support – and the judges and prosecutors in the federal courthouse need to hear our voices. President Obama promised change, but we have to make it happen!What: Hope for Cannabis Change ProtestWhen: 12 PM * Monday, February 23Where: Main Street side of the Federal Courthouse located at 312 N. Spring St. at Temple St. in downtown LAInfo: http://www.friendsofccl.com/rally_2009.htmPublic Transit Info: http://www.metro.net/default.aspPlease bring signs, banners, friends, and loved ones. The protest is on, rain or shine! [ Post Comment ] Comment #35 posted by BGreen on February 21, 2009 at 12:41:46 PT Storm Crow re: post #33 That was a very knowledgeable and factually correct post describing the real life experience of indoor gardening.I've seen gardens in the Netherlands and talked to gardeners and to the staff of the Cannabis College in Amsterdam, and what you posted was right along the line of what they have told me.The Reverend Bud Green [ Post Comment ] Comment #34 posted by FoM on February 21, 2009 at 11:53:15 PT Storm Crow You made me laugh! I agree. Thanks.All of this "foofarrah" would be useless blathering about nothing! [ Post Comment ] Comment #33 posted by Storm Crow on February 21, 2009 at 11:38:07 PT Most cannabis is light/hour sensitive. It needs short days to mature. Some outdoor growers start plants indoors and put them out in the early spring. The short days give the plant the illusion of autumn and they mature rapidly. Planting seeds at about the same time will give you a much bigger crop, which will be harvestable around 1st frost. But about 1/2 of your plants will be males, which need to be pulled. There are also the "auto-flowering" plants- these have been hybridized with a Siberian cannabis. It is not day/hour sensitive. They produce ASAP, 90 days seed to bud, is not unreasonable- small plants, small yield, usually not the highest quality, but they are improving as breeders select and cross the best. You should be able to get 2 crops in outdoors in many areas. This will be a very popular group of plants with commercial growers.But that dude is full of it. To grow even the auto-flowerers, you still need to remove the males to get the best product. And auto-flowerers never get near the pound mark on yield. Even 12 plants is a LOT of work indoors or out! And to expect someone who is very ill to "grow their own" is naive at the best! And he's in Michigan- so we aren't talking Florida weather here! Add "brown thumbs", deer, rippers, spider mites, power outages, etc and the dude's "everyone grow your own" just doesn't make it! Nor can many folks afford the lights needed to grow indoors. And will they be able to make the frequent adjustments needed to the heavy lights as the plants grow? How many have access to safe outdoor growing areas? Growing indoors, a novice is LUCKY to get 1 ounce per plant- and failures are very frequent. 12 plants at 1 ounce per plant gives me 12 ounces- divide that among 3 months to get about an ounce a week. THAT is the more realistic view of growing, in my opinion! Funny thing is, if even medical cannabis were legal on the level of other medicinal herbs, prices would settle back to a "real" level (think about that ginseng price). All of this "foofarrah" would be useless blathering about nothing! It is the artificially inflated price (caused by prohibition) that fuels all this silliness! [ Post Comment ] Comment #32 posted by FoM on February 21, 2009 at 10:14:52 PT One More Comment This excerpt from URL: http://drugsense.org/url/5nQuJEcA is what I don't think seems right.Excerpt: This means they can legally grow up to 60 marijuana plants every 90 days. Each of these plants has the potential of producing 16 ounces of usable marijuana. [ Post Comment ] Comment #31 posted by FoM on February 21, 2009 at 10:09:10 PT Storm Crow I was commenting on the excerpt about 16 ounces per plant in 90 days. An outdoor cycle is longer then 90 days I would think but maybe not. [ Post Comment ] Comment #30 posted by FoM on February 21, 2009 at 10:05:45 PT Storm Crow Thank you. If cannabis could be grown outside it would be a real help for people. Let nature work it's magic. [ Post Comment ] Comment #29 posted by Storm Crow on February 21, 2009 at 10:01:30 PT Hi Fom, An indoor plant, grown under lights produces about one to two ounces per plant. They just don't do as well indoors. If you want to get into the (expensive) fancy lights and all, you can boost your harvest quite a bit. Outdoors, a plant of the same very same strain may produce a pound or more.As a dissatisfied (California legal) indoor grower, it makes me mad that I have to "waste" the electricity to grow my plants indoors. It is a drag on the ecology, the economy and my pocketbook! Not to mention being a real PITA to do!As for the cost, hon, my total electric bill is around $100-120 depending on the month- so maybe $25 of that is the grow, add in the occasional bottle of molasses, fish goo, and a few other "goodies"- I figure (at the very worst) less than $20 an ounce for me to produce. Dirt and CFLs make for a very cheap grow! As for the current prices, I believe anywhere up to $600 an ounce is usual in the dispensaries- depending on quality. And about the price of cannabis...Ginseng is a perennial plant that takes at least 7 years to mature. It produces only a couple of ounces per plant. I just bought some powdered ginseng for just under $30 per pound. I saw a bunch of fresh basil in the "gourmet" section of produce- Basil is a small annual herb. The bunch cost $3. Cannabis is an "annual" plant capable of producing a crop in less than a year. It can produce between an ounce and a pound or more at least once a year. It sells for roughly the price of gold. What is wrong with this picture? I REMEMBER "fat" $10 ounces and $65 kilos! [ Post Comment ] Comment #28 posted by FoM on February 21, 2009 at 09:00:32 PT John Tyler You're making sense to me. [ Post Comment ] Comment #27 posted by John Tyler on February 21, 2009 at 08:55:43 PT just another item to pick up Well, It would seem that legal would be legal. People can make their own beer and wine (distillation is another story) or even grow their own tobacco if they like. So, it would be logical to assume that people could grow their own if they liked, or purchase it from retail outlets (herb shops would be quite appropriate). The price would come way down, to most likely less that $50 an oz. I would doubt that even botique growers could get $600 an oz., at lest, not from me. The economic growth of the industry itself would generate the revenue, not a heavy tax at the retail end. When a product is “illegal” the price can be unreasonable to some extent. In a “legal” market the product has to be reasonable or the buyers will find another source. The market would adjust. After the novelty of the whole idea wore off, the concept of legal cannabis would be no big deal. It would just be an item on your list of things to pick up when you are shopping. [ Post Comment ] Comment #26 posted by rchandar on February 21, 2009 at 08:52:14 PT: Tax and Regulate So you mean as a boost for our economy? Meaning, if all that grow money were legal and taxed? Yes, that's true: that would be about another $100 billion in tax revenue. And the states could tax crop revenue as well, netting another $20-$30 billion. Don't waste our plant.--rchandar [ Post Comment ] Comment #25 posted by FoM on February 21, 2009 at 08:41:39 PT A Comment on The Article #23 I don't believe that this comment is possible. I have read over the years an average figure is 1 ounce per plant. Excerpt: This means they can legally grow up to 60 marijuana plants every 90 days. Each of these plants has the potential of producing 16 ounces of usable marijuana. [ Post Comment ] Comment #24 posted by FoM on February 21, 2009 at 08:33:26 PT How Does Your Medical Marijuana Garden Grow ? February 21, 2009URL: http://drugsense.org/url/5nQuJEcA [ Post Comment ] Comment #23 posted by FoM on February 21, 2009 at 07:42:01 PT Just a Comment We bought this documentary a while ago. We decided we had time to watch it this morning again after not seeing it for a long time. I hope others buy this movie and watch it. It's very good.http://www.waitingtoinhale.org/ [ Post Comment ] Comment #22 posted by FoM on February 21, 2009 at 05:38:01 PT mykeyb420 That sounds nice. [ Post Comment ] Comment #21 posted by FoM on February 21, 2009 at 05:27:55 PT John Tyler I see cannabis as an herb and my dream would be to see it sold in health food stores. You can buy herbs in bulk at an excellent price and many of them have psychoactive properties. Buying directly from a grower would be the least expensive way. My concern is about the push in California to tax and regulate. I hope they aren't saying that cannabis would stay at 400 to 600 an ounce but that is where tax would benefit the state. Cutting out the middle man would mean a lower tax for the states. People could grow hemp and grow cannabis along side it and even if the good cannabis got pollinated the seeds could be removed and the quality would still be there. Never plant seeds that could have been pollinated by lower THC hemp is important. It could be done that way and save everyone a lot of money. People would pay more for organically grown cannabis just like people pay more for certified organically grown vegetables. My idea comes from being in a retail business for a number of years. I don't want politicans to get visions of sugar plums dancing in their heads about tax money. If the price stays high and the tax is high it would never stop the illegal market.I don't have any idea how much a grower gets per pound. All we see is how much it costs to buy. [ Post Comment ] Comment #20 posted by John Tyler on February 20, 2009 at 22:05:26 PT excess taxing is counterproductive If and when the cannabis industry is legalized any additional tax beyond a sales tax should be small. “Taxing the hell” out of it would be counterproductive. The point of legalization would be to encourage the whole industry from the growers, through preparation and packaging, transportation, and distribution, to retail outlets, like stores and various entertainment venues. All along the line legal money would circulate. Businesses could be built and lots of people could be gainfully employed. Every step along the way from grower to consumer there would be profitability for everyone involved and or course taxes and fees. This would prove more valuable than just “taxing the hell” out of it at the retail level. And then there is the industrial hemp that can be used for fuel, food, and fiber etc., again more business and employment and more revenue. It is so weird to see the political types preferring to drown in red ink, rather than climb into a sturdy, environmentally friendly, lifeboat made of hemp. [ Post Comment ] Comment #19 posted by mykeyb420 on February 20, 2009 at 20:49:24 PT free food this Tuesday !!! On Tuesday February 24, IHOP will be giving away free pancakes in celebration of National Pancake Day and on that same day Jack in the Box is giving customers two free tacos. [ Post Comment ] Comment #18 posted by mykeyb420 on February 20, 2009 at 20:46:30 PT Clinton's dog Buddy was killed by a car in 2002 http://archives.cnn.com/2002/US/01/03/buddy.killed/index.html [ Post Comment ] Comment #17 posted by FoM on February 20, 2009 at 20:11:08 PT Hope I agree with you. About the tax I could see people who grow it having the price go way down but it would be easy to put a high tax to fill in since people have been paying many hundreds of dollars in California for just an ounce. That's the danger I see. We have been living on our money we saved when my husband's work was good last summer. We have got our grocery spending down to about as reasonable as we've ever had it. It's amazing how much we don't need when times are harder. [ Post Comment ] Comment #16 posted by Hope on February 20, 2009 at 20:00:50 PT Socks I love that picture of him at the podium in the briefing room in the White House.That's cool.Talk about a really Presidential cat! [ Post Comment ] Comment #15 posted by FoM on February 20, 2009 at 19:56:44 PT mykeyb420 That's really old for a cat to live. I bet he had good health insurance. LOL! I just couldn't resist saying that. [ Post Comment ] Comment #14 posted by Hope on February 20, 2009 at 19:56:18 PT Comment 12 Socks. I remember Socks. Well he lived a good long life. Did better than the dog, Buddy, I think was his name, for sure, as I recall. [ Post Comment ] Comment #13 posted by Hope on February 20, 2009 at 19:50:50 PT The price should not be exorbitant if it's to be sold. The tax should not be exorbitant in cases where taxes will be charged. Getting reasonable about everything, including wasteful, and even destructive, laws, including rearranging our priorities in government concerning virtually unpayable, unreasonable taxes, fines, and fees, and in some cases, wages and bonuses, is going to be very important to get the nation, and the world, through what could be more difficult times than some of us might have expected or hoped for.We might all have to get used to, perhaps, shall we say, a little more "bohemian" lifestyle,than we might have been accustomed to, or were expecting to attain soon, to get through this financial crush.Everybody trying to "conform" to a financially unattainable or financially unreasonable lifestyle, or just the usual old American dream of a spacious house, a car and two kids, might have to be reconsidered to a degree or two. Maybe some people will discover the value of family, friends, simpler things, and caring about each other more, as opposed to being just totally driven and hellbent on accruing lots and lots of "Things". Having enough to survive on is likely going to be more important to more people for awhile than they might have expected. Learning to be happy and live well without an exceptional lot of material goods can lead to not only surviving, but actually thriving. [ Post Comment ] Comment #12 posted by mykeyb420 on February 20, 2009 at 19:15:54 PT Off topic Socks the cat Socks the Clinton's cat died at the age of 19 today http://news.aol.com/article/socks-the-cat-dies/353210 [ Post Comment ] Comment #11 posted by FoM on February 20, 2009 at 15:11:43 PT Just a Comment I was looking for news to post and found this article but the first and only comment so far was very good in my opinion. Check it out if you want.http://www.alternet.org/drugreporter/128051/ [ Post Comment ] Comment #10 posted by FoM on February 20, 2009 at 11:04:32 PT Hope I think taxing cannabis isn't going to solve California's problem. It would hurt low income people from using it. From all I have seen in documentaries pot shops pay a lot of tax and California still can't dig itself out of debt. No state can these days I don't think. We're too far gone and are in crash and burn mode in my opinion. [ Post Comment ] Comment #9 posted by Hope on February 20, 2009 at 10:47:57 PT Comment 3 That's quite an article.If this editorial, End The Collateral Damage of MJ Misdemeanors, is raw truth... Morford's article is very raw truth, and no little anger. [ Post Comment ] Comment #8 posted by FoM on February 20, 2009 at 10:36:39 PT OT: Just My Thoughts It's hard not to pay attention to the crash of uncontrolled Capitalism. What goes up must come down. I don't know how this crash will change our country but it will never be what it was. Maybe we'll finally put things in perspective and get on with it. Yesterday the only thing I remember Canada's Prime Minister say was they had their health care going already but we don't so far. How many of these white collar folks will go to prison? If they let out people for non violent drug offenses they will have room for the white collar criminals. [ Post Comment ] Comment #7 posted by Hope on February 20, 2009 at 09:42:52 PT This is a truly outstanding editorial. It's raw truth. I hope it does some good.Thank you, Seattle Times and thank you, Lance Dickie. [ Post Comment ] Comment #6 posted by Hope on February 20, 2009 at 09:21:46 PT Comment 4 and 5 I so agree with both of you. [ Post Comment ] Comment #5 posted by FoM on February 20, 2009 at 07:52:12 PT BGreen I am always stopped in my tracks with tax and regulate. People should be able to grow their own like people can have a vegetable garden. If there is money to be made in cannabis products tax that part of the industry. [ Post Comment ] Comment #4 posted by BGreen on February 20, 2009 at 07:38:13 PT Don't "tax the hell out of" cannabis re: #3 The so-called "sin taxes" imposed on tobacco are intended to make tobacco so expensive that it will make people quit, and in the mean time rake in massive amounts of what is essentially extortion money from those adults who choose to use tobacco.If we allow cannabis to be legalized so that the government, from federal all the way down to the city level, can "tax the hell out of it," there's no guarantee that the prices will drop at all from the current black market prices. The only difference is a different set of criminals making a financial killing off of cannabis.I'm already being taxed nearly to death as it is. If we can't grow our own cannabis for personal use TAX FREE then I say we shouldn't agree to their terms.The Reverend Bud Green [ Post Comment ] Comment #3 posted by FoM on February 20, 2009 at 07:20:20 PT Excerpt From Snipped Source Article Smoke This RecessionFebruary 20, 2009Excerpt: Now, let's get serious. Because there are, of course, bigger fish to fry in the sea of potentially lucrative, all-American inebriates. There is a far more potent, obvious solution to the state's budget woes, a huge, untapped revenue source, and now might be the perfect time to, you know, light it up. Really now, could there be a better time to decriminalize/fully legalize pot? Or, more fully, to decriminalize pot, and then spread respectable pot shops and vending machines and dispensaries far and wide, instill quality control and decent oversight and then tax the living hell out of the glorious, stress-reducing goodness, as we stop wasting billions fighting its grand ubiquity and instead sink into profitable pools of warm, hazy progress? Don't you already know the answer? It's difficult to imagine that some intrepid legislator hasn't already walked into Arnie "Pot is not a drug" Schwarzenegger's office and said, "Governator, now is the time. Light it up. Inhale the new reality. Pot is, by a huge margin, the single largest cash crop in the state unless you count porn stars and celebrity rehab. It rakes in upwards of $14 billion a year -- maybe a lot more than that -- and that's just from five clever hippies and a couple intrepid grandmas in Ukiah. Imagine what we could do if we went all-in." Are the discussions ongoing? Are they passing the bong of possibility around the state Senate chambers? You're damn right they are. What's holding them back? Probably the usual: the negative PR, looking "soft" on crime, encouraging permissiveness, pressure from prison lobbies, and so on. Don't worry, Sacramento. Everyone's already plenty drunk/high on prescription meds trying to alleviate fears of losing their job to care about that nonsense right now. Get to it. There won't be much pushback from D.C. President Obama's already stated that his upcoming appointee to head the DEA is going to knock it the hell off with the insidious raids of harmless medical pot shops in California, and wants to quit using federal resources to bash hippies and circumvent state laws. Look. Is there really anyone left who doesn't already know the "War on Drugs" is a pathetic joke, an abject failure and a taxpayer nightmare, and the only reason it survives at all is to fund the CIA and fellate the prison guard unions and support a shameful prison system, and to let politicians say they're "tough on crime" so they can to deflect all those uninformed parents who relentlessly whine about pot in public schools just before dashing off a wine-tasting party to snort a nice line of Bolivian coke? Anyone left, furthermore, who doesn't know that pot is far safer than booze, less addictive, nonviolent, more transportable, easier to light, and generally won't interfere with your ability to crawl across the carpet and lick cookie crumbs from your lover's thighs? And sure, while heavy, daily usage can make you slow and stupid and rather useless to the world, well, so can a six-pack of Diet Dr. Pepper and six hours of TV every day. Gateway drug? That's on Channel 2, right after "Oprah." And another thing. Maybe it wouldn't be merely tax 'n' puff. Maybe California, already the pot-growing capital of the nation, could become something more. A hub. A world-class research center. Pot education, study, medicine, import/export, the works. We could ship our crop to various nations in desperate need of chilling the hell out, like Israel. Palestine. Pakistan. Russia. The N-Judah on a Friday afternoon. We could become the largest research and manufacturing center in the world. How proud we would be. You know, sort of. Let's phrase this grand scenario in another way: Why the hell not try it? What have we got to lose? What, we could go more broke? We could get more desperate and anxious? Fact is, economic nightmares need not breed only miserable stories of lost homes and lost jobs and shuttered businesses. They can also spawn creative solutions, innovative thinking, widespread munchies. Now is the time. Let's not get carried away. Pot's only one little inebriate, one mild and -- let's just admit it -- relatively boring feel-good plant. California is $40 billion in debt and we're running low on water and we can't give away those hideous tract developments out in Stockton. Milking the pot cow for all she's worth might net us, at best, a few billion a year. To get out of this massive hole, we'd have to legalize Ecstasy too. (Someday, honey, someday). But it's something. It's radical new thinking that's not the slightest bit radical, or new, and in fact the notion is now even more obvious than it's been for the past 30 years. What are we waiting for? A match? URL: http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/g/a/2009/02/20/notes022009.DTL [ Post Comment ] Comment #2 posted by FoM on February 20, 2009 at 06:17:14 PT Storm Crow I am happy to see way more Democrats then Republicans understanding the need to change how they deal with marijuana issues. There will always be those who won't ever get it unfortunately. Maybe a progressive Democrat will take his place in time. [ Post Comment ] Comment #1 posted by Storm Crow on February 20, 2009 at 06:10:59 PT And who is he representing? State Rep. Chris Hurst, D-Enumclaw,"argues it would be irresponsible to move a piece of legislation forward before the federal government removes marijuana as a Schedule 1 controlled substance."I would call it being progressive and leading the way! [ Post Comment ] Post Comment