cannabisnews.com: Collecting of Details on Travelers Documented










  Collecting of Details on Travelers Documented

Posted by CN Staff on September 22, 2007 at 08:41:21 PT
By Ellen Nakashima, Washington Post Staff Writer 
Source: Washington Post  

Washington, DC -- The U.S. government is collecting electronic records on the travel habits of millions of Americans who fly, drive or take cruises abroad, retaining data on the persons with whom they travel or plan to stay, the personal items they carry during their journeys, and even the books that travelers have carried, according to documents obtained by a group of civil liberties advocates and statements by government officials.
The personal travel records are meant to be stored for as long as 15 years, as part of the Department of Homeland Security's effort to assess the security threat posed by all travelers entering the country. Officials say the records, which are analyzed by the department's Automated Targeting System, help border officials distinguish potential terrorists from innocent people entering the country.But new details about the information being retained suggest that the government is monitoring the personal habits of travelers more closely than it has previously acknowledged. The details were learned when a group of activists requested copies of official records on their own travel. Those records included a description of a book on marijuana that one of them carried and small flashlights bearing the symbol of a marijuana leaf.The Automated Targeting System has been used to screen passengers since the mid-1990s, but the collection of data for it has been greatly expanded and automated since 2002, according to former DHS officials.Officials yesterday defended the retention of highly personal data on travelers not involved in or linked to any violations of the law. But civil liberties advocates have alleged that the type of information preserved by the department raises alarms about the government's ability to intrude into the lives of ordinary people. The millions of travelers whose records are kept by the government are generally unaware of what their records say, and the government has not created an effective mechanism for reviewing the data and correcting any errors, activists said.The activists alleged that the data collection effort, as carried out now, violates the Privacy Act, which bars the gathering of data related to Americans' exercise of their First Amendment rights, such as their choice of reading material or persons with whom to associate. They also expressed concern that such personal data could one day be used to impede their right to travel."The federal government is trying to build a surveillance society," said John Gilmore, a civil liberties activist in San Francisco whose records were requested by the Identity Project, an ad-hoc group of privacy advocates in California and Alaska. The government, he said, "may be doing it with the best or worst of intentions. . . . But the job of building a surveillance database and populating it with information about us is happening largely without our awareness and without our consent."Gilmore's file, which he provided to The Washington Post, included a note from a Customs and Border Patrol officer that he carried the marijuana-related book "Drugs and Your Rights." "My first reaction was I kind of expected it," Gilmore said. "My second reaction was, that's illegal."DHS officials said this week that the government is not interested in passengers' reading habits, that the program is transparent, and that it affords redress for travelers who are inappropriately stymied. "I flatly reject the premise that the department is interested in what travelers are reading," DHS spokesman Russ Knocke said. "We are completely uninterested in the latest Tom Clancy novel that the traveler may be reading."But, Knocke said, "if there is some indication based upon the behavior or an item in the traveler's possession that leads the inspection officer to conclude there could be a possible violation of the law, it is the front-line officer's duty to further scrutinize the traveler." Once that happens, Knocke said, "it is not uncommon for the officer to document interactions with a traveler that merited additional scrutiny."He said that he is not familiar with the file that mentions Gilmore's book about drug rights, but that generally "front-line officers have a duty to enforce all laws within our authority, for example, the counter-narcotics mission." Officers making a decision to admit someone at a port of entry have a duty to apply extra scrutiny if there is some indication of a violation of the law, he said.The retention of information about Gilmore's book was first disclosed this week in Wired News. Details of how the ATS works were disclosed in a Federal Register notice last November. Although the screening has been in effect for more than a decade, data for the system in recent years have been collected by the government from more border points, and also provided by airlines -- under U.S. government mandates -- through direct electronic links that did not previously exist.The DHS database generally includes "passenger name record" (PNR) information, as well as notes taken during secondary screenings of travelers. PNR data -- often provided to airlines and other companies when reservations are made -- routinely include names, addresses and credit-card information, as well as telephone and e-mail contact details, itineraries, hotel and rental car reservations, and even the type of bed requested in a hotel.The records the Identity Project obtained confirmed that the government is receiving data directly from commercial reservation systems, such as Galileo and Sabre, but also showed that the data, in some cases, are more detailed than the information to which the airlines have access.Ann Harrison, the communications director for a technology firm in Silicon Valley who was among those who obtained their personal files and provided them to The Post, said she was taken aback to see that her dossier contained data on her race and on a European flight that did not begin or end in the United States or connect to a U.S.-bound flight."It was surprising that they were gathering so much information without my knowledge on my travel activities, and it was distressing to me that this information was being gathered in violation of the law," she said.James P. Harrison, director of the Identity Project and Ann Harrison's brother, obtained government records that contained another sister's phone number in Tokyo as an emergency contact. "So my sister's phone number ends up being in a government database," he said. "This is a lot more than just saying who you are, your date of birth."Edward Hasbrouck, a civil liberties activist who was a travel agent for more than 15 years, said that his file contained coding that reflected his plan to fly with another individual. In fact, Hasbrouck wound up not flying with that person, but the record, which can be linked to the other passenger's name, remained in the system. "The Automated Targeting System," Hasbrouck alleged, "is the largest system of government dossiers of individual Americans' personal activities that the government has ever created."He said that travel records are among the most potentially invasive of records because they can suggest links: They show who a traveler sat next to, where they stayed, when they left. "It's that lifetime log of everywhere you go that can be correlated with other people's movements that's most dangerous," he said. "If you sat next to someone once, that's a coincidence. If you sat next to them twice, that's a relationship."Stewart Verdery, former first assistant secretary for policy and planning at DHS, said the data collected for ATS should be considered "an investigative tool, just the way we do with law enforcement, who take records of things for future purposes when they need to figure out where people came from, what they were carrying and who they are associated with. That type of information is extremely valuable when you're trying to thread together a plot or you're trying to clean up after an attack."Homeland Security Secretary Michael Chertoff in August 2006 said that "if we learned anything from Sept. 11, 2001, it is that we need to be better at connecting the dots of terrorist-related information. After Sept. 11, we used credit-card and telephone records to identify those linked with the hijackers. But wouldn't it be better to identify such connections before a hijacker boards a plane?" Chertoff said that comparing PNR data with intelligence on terrorists lets the government "identify unknown threats for additional screening" and helps avoid "inconvenient screening of low-risk travelers."Knocke, the DHS spokesman, added that the program is not used to determine "guilt by association." He said the DHS has created a program called DHS Trip to provide redress for travelers who faced screening problems at ports of entry.But DHS Trip does not allow a traveler to challenge an agency decision in court, said David Sobel, senior counsel with the Electronic Frontier Foundation, which has sued the DHS over information concerning the policy underlying the ATS. Because the system is exempted from certain Privacy Act requirements, including the right to "contest the content of the record," a traveler has no ability to correct erroneous information, Sobel said.Zakariya Reed, a Toledo firefighter, said in an interview that he has been detained at least seven times at the Michigan border since fall 2006. Twice, he said, he was questioned by border officials about "politically charged" opinion pieces he had published in his local newspaper. The essays were critical of U.S. policy in the Middle East, he said. Once, during a secondary interview, he said, "they had them printed out on the table in front of me."Researcher Julie Tate contributed to this report.Note: U.S. Effort More Extensive Than Previously Known.Source: Washington Post (DC)Author:  Ellen Nakashima, Washington Post Staff WriterPublished: Saturday, September 22, 2007; A01Copyright: 2007 Washington Post Contact: letterstoed washpost.comWebsite: http://www.washingtonpost.com/ CannabisNews Surveillance Archiveshttp://cannabisnews.com/news/list/surveillance.shtml

Home    Comment    Email    Register    Recent Comments    Help





Comment #102 posted by whig on September 23, 2007 at 16:58:40 PT
Heavy manners
Respect for Rastafari. We are all God's children.http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lpu4OOLY6Bw
[ Post Comment ]


Comment #101 posted by whig on September 23, 2007 at 16:54:38 PT
Hope
If your child does something despicable in your sight, do you cease to love your child?
[ Post Comment ]


Comment #100 posted by whig on September 23, 2007 at 16:52:23 PT
Hope
You are whatever you wish to be. We are all God's children.
[ Post Comment ]


Comment #99 posted by Hope on September 23, 2007 at 16:15:17 PT
It is misuse of the plant.
We, as humankind, have misused everything at one time or another. We are all, everyone of us, at one time or another, worthy to be despised.We can all do better, if we try. We can."What is man, that God is mindful of him?"I wonder.
[ Post Comment ]


Comment #98 posted by Hope on September 23, 2007 at 16:11:00 PT
Comment 96
Indeed. Hemp has been used to hang and strangle and bind a great number of people.Hemp is good. Ropes are good. But boy, can they be misused.I'm trying to think of something that mankind hasn't misused or contaminated. I was thinking the clouds of the sky. But no. They have been tainted and polluted and made to carry man made poisons, by the failures of mankind. Chernobyl comes to mind.
[ Post Comment ]


Comment #97 posted by Hope on September 23, 2007 at 16:06:11 PT
God knows, 
Christianity is very often perverted and misused by even those who claim to follow it. God is love. God is not tough love. He is love. Tough love is a lie, an excuse, created by humans that want to abuse others. We know our leaders have perverted the very core of Christianity and carried it like a flag over their foul and vile acts of corruption. They call good, "Evil", and evil, "Good".His very name and title are even misused. There is nothing that a man, bound to evil, cannot misuse and pervert the goodness of.
[ Post Comment ]


Comment #96 posted by whig on September 23, 2007 at 15:55:15 PT
Hope
I guess if you're going to take it to that level, you can make rope from hemp, and you can kill people with a rope.But it's not misuse of cannabis, it's abuse of humanity, in that case.
[ Post Comment ]


Comment #95 posted by Hope on September 23, 2007 at 15:42:05 PT
Can cannabis be misused?
Fearfully so, as I see it. It is horribly misused by the prohibitionists and drug warriors. It's used as an excuse to harm people. It's used as an excuse to spy on people and pry into their privacy. It's used as an excuse to imprison people. It's used as an excuse to hate people and terrorize and demonize them. It's been used, like candy, or the promise of something good, to lure unsuspecting people into the lairs of those who would harm them.Prohibitionists and drug warriors have used it as an excuse to feed the flesh of innocents into the prison industrial complex... for profit.They use it as a way to control, abuse, and rule people. They used it as an excuse to harm and misuse Runruff and his family.Some, such as pharmaceutical companies and those who worship them, can take the plant apart and create chemical copies of it's safe ingredients and turn them into poisons. The plant, of course, didn't or doesn't do that. It's the people that do it. They lie about it. They believe lies about it. They work themselves up into great states of agitation and anger over their lies about it. They do horrible things to people because of the agitation they work themselves into about it. Prohibitionists have killed people to keep them from having this beautiful plant.The plant is phenomenal and amazing and better blessed than so many substances that it actually curbs any possibility of it's misuse, as far as consumption is concerned. You can waste it by using more than you need... but using more than you need won't kill you.It's safer than water, for heaven's sake. It cannot become poison in too great a quantity, as fermented fruits, grains, and vegetables can, or even plain clean water can.It is the most extraordinary plant that I know of. Nothing else comes close. It's nutritious. It doesn't give you diahreah and it doesn't constipate you.There is nothing in creation that a human cannot find a way to misuse if he decides to.
[ Post Comment ]


Comment #94 posted by whig on September 23, 2007 at 15:07:44 PT
Hope
How would you imagine cannabis being misused? If it was forced on someone without their consent, maybe. Even then I can see circumstances, like a doctor trying to save a patient, where it might actually be necessary to just provide cannabis.
[ Post Comment ]


Comment #93 posted by whig on September 23, 2007 at 14:53:11 PT
Hempseed nutrition
http://or-coast.net/contigo/rsearch4.htmlCannabis hempseeds contain all the essential amino acids and essential fatty acids necessary to maintain healthy human life. No other single plant source provides complete protein in such an easily digestible form, nor has the oils essential to life in as perfect a ratio for human health and vitality.
[ Post Comment ]


Comment #92 posted by whig on September 23, 2007 at 14:49:55 PT
There are other paradise trees
Cannabis is not the only non-toxic and beneficial herb that I have found, but it is the best of all such herbs. Unlike any other herb it provides the possibility for a completely nutritious human diet containing all essential oils and amino acids. It may be that there are other essential oils and amino acids produced by other plants which are also helpful, but not one containing all of these in such proper balance.Not to my knowledge, at any rate. Maybe cannabis is just the understudy too.
[ Post Comment ]


Comment #91 posted by whig on September 23, 2007 at 14:45:16 PT
Hope
Too much cannabis can make you sleepy, in theory.I guess. Sometimes I get sleepy. Then I sleep.
[ Post Comment ]


Comment #90 posted by whig on September 23, 2007 at 14:42:59 PT
Hope
The cannabis plant is a wellspring of good things, for sure.Good things can be misused of course. Anything in creation can be misused. Humans are adept at turning even obvious blessings into curses. But that doesn't have to happen. We learn. We learn that a little wine can be good... too much can be a curse. We learn and we should always be learning as long as we live. When we learn we become more than we were.The interesting thing about cannabis is that it is fundamentally non-toxic at any dose or duration. This is not true of water, or oxygen. It is not true of wine. It is true of cannabis.
[ Post Comment ]


Comment #89 posted by FoM on September 23, 2007 at 14:23:27 PT
Hope
I love that video too. Glad you liked it.
[ Post Comment ]


Comment #88 posted by Hope on September 23, 2007 at 14:20:38 PT
You don't know me better than that by now?
"...please don't be angry if you don't understand or agree."
[ Post Comment ]


Comment #87 posted by Hope on September 23, 2007 at 14:19:39 PT
Plants and Puritans of this age.
Just more thoughts.Death, illness, pain, and even hallucinations of terror can be found in some plants. We have no prohibitions against any of those plants. We already know that it is not good to partake of certain plants. We should study them further. They are a part of creation and we have yet to discover all the benefits they may hold.There is life and nourishment for the body, soul, spirit, and mind and healing in others. The cannabis plant is a wellspring of good things, for sure.Good things can be misused of course. Anything in creation can be misused. Humans are adept at turning even obvious blessings into curses. But that doesn't have to happen. We learn. We learn that a little wine can be good... too much can be a curse. We learn and we should always be learning as long as we live. When we learn we become more than we were.It's really odd that we only have prohibition against the plants that can incline people to be feeling better than the self righteous puritan chooses to allow them to feel. They love their rules, and laws, and pronouncements and condemnations, and human judgments, and, it seems to me, actually despise the God they claim to worship.
[ Post Comment ]


Comment #86 posted by Hope on September 23, 2007 at 14:08:16 PT
Whig
"You do not know everything you think you know."Lol!That's a good one.No. I'm sure I don't. I think, I'm sure I don't.
[ Post Comment ]


Comment #85 posted by Hope on September 23, 2007 at 14:01:46 PT
Man!
I just love that video. Thanks so much, FoM.http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ewWyW6lT1HEAnd I love all of you. Even the narcs and even the prohibs that might be lurking about. I may hate what you do, narcs and prohibs... but I don't hate you.No, I'm not high on pot. I'm just feeling the high and grace of that video... and it's good.
[ Post Comment ]


Comment #84 posted by whig on September 23, 2007 at 13:46:54 PT
Hope
I want to say more, but please don't be angry if you don't understand or agree. I chose to use my name, because it is my name, and because I have authority to use it, and because I believe God wants me to be Michael, which I am. But I reason it out, as follows, that if someone else were supposed to be Michael and not me, then it would not make sense anyhow for me to wait for that person to show up if I could not identify him. Where is he? Maybe I'm just the understudy in case he doesn't show up. So I'm Michael.
[ Post Comment ]


Comment #83 posted by FoM on September 23, 2007 at 13:27:09 PT
whig
I agree that we can bring change if our heart is in it and if we don't argue and fight and fret and worry. People that are in harmony are a power to behold. That goes for all people who are dedcated to good things.
[ Post Comment ]


Comment #82 posted by FoM on September 23, 2007 at 13:24:25 PT
whig
Yes I do think Stick is cuter! LOL! Love is a wonderful thing. I find it interesting as we get older and don't look like we did when we were young are eyes start to dim a little and we don't notice it. 
[ Post Comment ]


Comment #81 posted by whig on September 23, 2007 at 13:24:09 PT
FoM
With the end of cannabis prohibition, we can and will create a new heaven and a new earth. One which is not based on want and despair.
[ Post Comment ]


Comment #80 posted by whig on September 23, 2007 at 13:17:34 PT
FoM
Thanks. But I'd expect you think Stick is a good bit cuter, as you should. :)
[ Post Comment ]


Comment #79 posted by FoM on September 23, 2007 at 13:16:01 PT
whig
I agree with Mrs. Whig. You are cute.
[ Post Comment ]


Comment #78 posted by whig on September 23, 2007 at 13:11:41 PT
Hope
My wife says I'm the cutest and best in the whole world but I'd take that as biased.
[ Post Comment ]


Comment #77 posted by whig on September 23, 2007 at 13:10:15 PT
Toker00
My name is Michael. It's not an extreme claim. It's just the truth.
[ Post Comment ]


Comment #76 posted by FoM on September 23, 2007 at 13:08:09 PT
whig
That's plenty. I love you too. You are special.
[ Post Comment ]


Comment #75 posted by whig on September 23, 2007 at 13:06:10 PT
FoM
I agree. I do not know everything either. I never said I did.I only know that I am who I am and I am doing what I believe I am supposed to do. I hope that is enough.
[ Post Comment ]


Comment #74 posted by FoM on September 23, 2007 at 13:00:30 PT
Toker00
Who me fight with you? Heck no I love you!
[ Post Comment ]


Comment #73 posted by FoM on September 23, 2007 at 12:54:42 PT
BGreen
Cannabis is universal and I don't think there is any other plant that can create a unification between people. It doesn't matter what country or language spoken because it is special. It represents a common peace of mind in my opinion.
[ Post Comment ]


Comment #72 posted by Toker00 on September 23, 2007 at 12:52:15 PT
Hope FoM
I'm going to agree with whig and at the same time try to not disagree with either you.FoM, some plants give life when eaten and some give death. Therefore, there are good and bad plants for eating. Cannabis will be proven to be the Superior plant of this planet someday and well on it's way there now, if we can convince enough researchers to demand the money it will take to do that research. So, Cannabis is THE plant, or tree, of LIFE just as there are plants that could be deemed as THE plant, or tree, of DEATH. In that perspective and not a religious perspective, whig could be right. Whig, your name must really be Micheal.Hope, with the above perspective in mind, again not in a religious view, cannabis could be DEVELOPED into a plant that at this time is not present on Earth. The guys doing the breeding and developing of strains relative to the illnesses they treat or cure may stumble or co-create a plant of "rekown". Again, whig would be correct in saying that by cannabis could and is the Tree or plant of Life.The Tree of Life was clearly prohibited by God. It is also to be brought back in the end times to heal the Nations. What other plant comes close?Please don't see this as an argument but as a diplomatic approach to you ALL being right.Toke. 
[ Post Comment ]


Comment #71 posted by Hope on September 23, 2007 at 12:52:03 PT
Revelation is happening, I suspect,
and has happened, and will happen.Maybe it is the ravings of a man who has lost his mind for one reason or another... but I suspect it is more. I believe he was having a mental, or spiritual, vision of somehow real happenings...perhaps in his future, and surely, in another dimension than that one that we are familiar with.I think many, if not all, of his visions were accurate descriptions of what he saw, and that he may have actually seen beyond the veil. He may have seen where our spirits go when they leave this body and this plane.I suspect that it might have to do with things that have already happened to some people. Maybe everyone has to live out their own experience of Revelation, similar to or exactly like the one John describes.I try not to overwhelmed by terror from the fearful images it evokes...but to cling to the hope that it offers.It may be a vision of death or of life in the hereafter. Maybe when we pass from this life, we pass into that place and away from this. We, perhaps, when we die, lose contact with this heaven and earth that we now reside in and find ourselves in that one. I suspect that the Branch Davidians may have seen the fulfillment of the Revelation of John in their lives. I suspect that people murdered in the Holocaust and other disasters have seen the fulfillment of all or some of those prophecies.It's a picture of dreadful events and yet there is hope.While I can only suspect, believe, or not believe, I put a lot of stock in his descriptions of things he saw in that vision. Like Revelations 1:14-15"His head and hair were white like wool, as white as snow, and his eyes were like blazing fire. His feet were like bronze glowing in a furnace, and his voice was like the sound of rushing waters."
[ Post Comment ]


Comment #70 posted by BGreen on September 23, 2007 at 12:48:59 PT
Is Cannabis Special To God?
There is overwhelming evidence that cannabis was crafted with extra thought and care. All of creation is pleasing to God because everything has it's purpose, and everything is special when it helps us exist.It appears that cannabis possesses many times more "purposes" than any other plant ever discovered. There are tens of thousands of known uses of just the industrial hemp plant before we even begin to contemplate the medical uses we know of and that are yet to be discovered.The discovery of the endocannabinoid system less than 20 years ago that we now understand is involved in nearly every function of our bodies is mimicked by only one plant in the entire world. This one plant holds the key to curing some of the most deadly and hopeless diseases ever experienced. This symbiotic relationship between humans and a plant doesn't exist outside of the cannabis plant.If that isn't enough circumstantial evidence that cannabis is created for a greater special purpose in humans, ask a botanist if any plant can grow in a vegetative state in complete 24/7 daylight without the dark cycle. They will tell you that no plant could survive.Cannabis not only survives at with 24/7 daylight, it actually thrives with extra growth directly proportional to the amount of extra light it gets.This enables the cannabis plant to grow in more geographic locations than any other plant in the world.I'd say the evidence is becoming more and more overwhelming each day that cannabis does indeed play a very special role in our existence, and that special role was most definitely put there by the Creator.The Reverend Bud Green
[ Post Comment ]


Comment #69 posted by FoM on September 23, 2007 at 12:43:39 PT
whig
You said to Hope that you do not know everything you think you know.I say you do not know everything you think you know. Back at ya.
[ Post Comment ]


Comment #68 posted by whig on September 23, 2007 at 12:26:32 PT
Hope
Please feel free to disregard my "imaginings" then. You do not know everything you think you know. We are all more than we seem. Including you.
[ Post Comment ]


Comment #67 posted by Hope on September 23, 2007 at 12:19:35 PT
Whig... you are letting your imagination
carry you too far. Yours is a good and powerful imagination. It can take you to many good places. The mind is a powerful thing. It must be "leashed" or "bridled", controlled by it's owner. Time to say, "Whoa" and rein it in.You have allowed your imagination to wander too far. You must restrain it.I am confident that you are not THAT Michael, mentioned in Daniel and other places.I know many Michaels.That Michael was an angel. He was not a human being. He is still not a human being. That Michael will never be a human being. Angels may appear in human form sometimes, I have no doubt, but it is transitory. They don't live out the life of a human in human form.You are not that Michael. You are not an angel. They are not human. I suspect Mrs. Whig can help you verify that.:0)Sometimes we have to step back through a door through which our thoughts take us, to be in the right place.
[ Post Comment ]


Comment #66 posted by whig on September 23, 2007 at 12:11:46 PT
fwiw
I baked at least ten loaves. It got to be more powerful than I could handle so I stopped at that point.
[ Post Comment ]


Comment #65 posted by whig on September 23, 2007 at 12:09:41 PT
Hope
Cannabis can be strengthened. It can, for instance, be baked into bread.
[ Post Comment ]


Comment #64 posted by Hope on September 23, 2007 at 12:08:54 PT
People, even in the days of John's Revelation
understood there was healing, nourishment, benefits, and health in the leaves, fruit, seeds, bark, pulp, and roots of trees and plants. The tree of life was a simple concept that anyone, then and now, could grasp.There is healing in the leaves of the cannabis plant. They are, indeed, a pretty good preview and promise of something even more wondrous.
[ Post Comment ]


Comment #63 posted by whig on September 23, 2007 at 12:03:46 PT
Hope
This is what I believe, and you can decide if you think it has merit.Cannabis is and was the tree of life in Genesis. When Adam and Eve ate from the tree of knowledge of good and evil, God prohibited them from eating also from the tree of life, lest they become as God, but the prohibition was meant only as an opportunity for Adam and Eve to learn responsibility.Just as a parent must see that when a child grows up, the child becomes an adult and must leave the birth home.We have arrived at the time of revelation, as I said, in my belief. I am Michael, it is my name. I say cannabis is legal now. I am ending cannabis prohibition by invoking scriptural authority. You have a first amendment right to use cannabis.Daniel 12:1-3  1 "At that time there shall arise Michael, the great prince, guardian of your people; It shall be a time unsurpassed in distress since nations began until that time. At that time your people shall escape, everyone who is found written in the book.2
  Many of those who sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake; some shall live forever, others shall be an everlasting horror and disgrace.3
  But the wise shall shine brightly like the splendor of the firmament, And those who lead the many to justice shall be like the stars forever.I take no hubris in doing this, I am volunteering for the job because someone has to do it. If not me, who? If not now, when?No belief is necessary, only that this is how I can help, if I may, to end cannabis prohibition, for those who find this way worthy.
[ Post Comment ]


Comment #62 posted by FoM on September 23, 2007 at 11:58:40 PT
whig
I think it's possible that some of Revelation is playing out day after day in the news but the future when a New Heaven and a New Earth will be put in place won't happen until all the things happen before that point.
[ Post Comment ]


Comment #61 posted by whig on September 23, 2007 at 11:54:15 PT
FoM
I believe we are living through Revelation. It is not the future to me. That's all I want to say about it.
[ Post Comment ]


Comment #60 posted by Hope on September 23, 2007 at 11:44:48 PT
Whig
I have no doubt that God created cannabis for mankind's use.There is no doubt in my mind that good and evil exist. I sincerely believe that the prohibition of cannabis is truly one of the evils. It is a man made, human created, prohibition of receiving the gifts of God. It is evil.There are many blessings within the blessings of that plant, cannabis. Those who forbid others to use it are doing the work of evil. They are protecting no one. They have killed, tortured, humiliated, persecuted and destroyed people because of their love of their prohibition of cannabis. They are killers. They bring great harm to mankind. Those who have not repented and changed their ways and attitudes are evil, no matter how sweet, or good, or religious, or caring they may appear to be. They can forsake it and come out of it. But until they do, they are evil and the purveyors of evil.They will receive their "reward", along with their true master.
[ Post Comment ]


Comment #59 posted by FoM on September 23, 2007 at 11:44:14 PT
whig
I don't mind at all. Many different people read this web site and I want to make it clear to those unknown people that not everyone believes that cannabis is special in God's eyes. It's one of the plants that are here for us to use and we should be allowed by the powers that be to use it. The Creation is a wonderful thing. That goes for animals as well as plants. These are very special gifts. Puppies and kittens and little elephants are joyous gifts to enjoy too.
[ Post Comment ]


Comment #58 posted by whig on September 23, 2007 at 11:37:25 PT
FoM
I don't wish to argue with you. I consider cannabis the tree of life and will continue to do so.
[ Post Comment ]


Comment #57 posted by FoM on September 23, 2007 at 11:30:43 PT
whig
I'm not sure what you mean by not real but faith is the substance of things hoped for and the evidence of things not seen. I do have Faith.
[ Post Comment ]


Comment #56 posted by Hope on September 23, 2007 at 11:29:27 PT
Comment 47
I agree, FoM. Whatever it is, I'm positive that it's something that we, who are still alive and on this earth, haven't seen yet. In the story of Adam and Eve... they got in trouble and expelled from the garden for eating from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. They didn't eat from the tree of life and if you believe that it exists literally somewhere...still, no one has gotten past that angel guarding the way to it.Thanks, Whig... for the reminder about the guard. That was the only scriptural reference to the "Tree of life" that I didn't include in my study below. And now it's included. I'm pretty sure, with that one included, we've now covered every reference to the "Tree of life" that's found in the most well known texts.
[ Post Comment ]


Comment #55 posted by FoM on September 23, 2007 at 11:27:08 PT
whig
I agree that we should be able to use what was put here for us to use.
[ Post Comment ]


Comment #54 posted by whig on September 23, 2007 at 11:25:27 PT
FoM
The comment you deleted wasn't very important, but I was trying to say that you and Hope and anyone else who does not believe that cannabis is the tree of life are welcome to believe in something else, something symbolic and not real if you like, but I believe that everything God created for us to use is here for us.
[ Post Comment ]


Comment #53 posted by FoM on September 23, 2007 at 11:25:14 PT
whig
I agree with comment 50 too. That's the future from the Book of Revelation.
[ Post Comment ]


Comment #52 posted by whig on September 23, 2007 at 11:24:11 PT
Rev 22:1-3
Cite for last comment.
[ Post Comment ]


Comment #51 posted by FoM on September 23, 2007 at 11:23:54 PT
whig
I agree with that. 
[ Post Comment ]


Comment #50 posted by whig on September 23, 2007 at 11:23:41 PT
Cannabis prohibition ended
 1
  Then the angel showed me the river of life-giving water, sparkling like crystal, flowing from the throne of God and of the Lamb2
  down the middle of its street. On either side of the river grew the tree of life that produces fruit twelve times a year, once each month; the leaves of the trees serve as medicine for the nations.3
  Nothing accursed will be found there anymore. The throne of God and of the Lamb will be in it, and his servants will worship him.
[ Post Comment ]


Comment #49 posted by whig on September 23, 2007 at 11:20:37 PT
First cannabis prohibition
Genesis 3:22-2422
  Then the LORD God said: "See! The man has become like one of us, knowing what is good and what is bad! Therefore, he must not be allowed to put out his hand to take fruit from the tree of life also, and thus eat of it and live forever."23
  The LORD God therefore banished him from the garden of Eden, to till the ground from which he had been taken.24
  When he expelled the man, he settled him east of the garden of Eden; and he stationed the cherubim and the fiery revolving sword, to guard the way to the tree of life.
[ Post Comment ]


Comment #48 posted by FoM on September 23, 2007 at 11:16:08 PT
whig
I was trying to fix my spelling and you must have posted when I was doing that because your post is lost in cyberspace. I hope you will re-post. Sorry about that.
[ Post Comment ]

 


Comment #47 posted by FoM on September 23, 2007 at 11:12:36 PT

Hope
I always thought of the reference in Revelation as the future when things have become new and that is not now. What the Tree of Life is I never could figure that out but I always knew it would be better then anything we have know here on earth.
[ Post Comment ]


 


Comment #46 posted by Hope on September 23, 2007 at 11:05:40 PT

An exerpt from the long post below...
I agree with FoM. The tree of life is part of a vision, John's vision. It "will be"... according to John. "Will be" indicates that it is not now. John saw it in a vision of what "will be".If you put any stock in John's vision, you will believe that every plant of the earth as we know it now will have been done away with.Cannabis is a wonderful plant. A creation. A gift of God. It's something to be thankful for. It can make life easier, better, and healthier and more fulfilling here on earth.It is not "The tree of life" referred to in scripture. We have not seen that "tree" or "plant" growing on this earth. It is symbolic of something far greater than any plant or tree we know of today.It's a part of this creation. It too will disappear when all that is old is taken away and we have a new heaven and a new earth. If you believe in John's vision... all that is old is gone when he sees the tree of life he speaks of.Revelation 21:1"Then I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away, and there was no longer any sea."I do believe in God. I believe he is Yahweh, Jehovah God, The Father, The Son, Jesus Christ, and the Holy Spirit. The creator of all that is. The Alpha and Omega. The beginning and the end.I don't claim to understand the Revelation of John. But I can see that the tree of life in his vision is not something that exists on the earth today.Cannabis is a wonderful plant. A gift from God. I have no doubt of that. But if you believe that there is or will be a literal tree of life... according to the Revelation...you have to believe that it does not exist as one of the plants that belong to the earth today. That tree of life in Revelation represents eternal life. Cannabis is a wonderful plant...but it is not the source of eternal life. As FoM said, if that were true, none who have eaten of the cannabis plant would have experienced death. No one has eaten of that tree... other than the eternal salvation of our souls through Jesus Christ.That tree of life could be symbolic of Jesus being nailed to a tree for our sake. It could be an actual plant. But it obviously does not exist today.That's what I believe, anyway.
[ Post Comment ]


 


Comment #45 posted by Hope on September 23, 2007 at 11:04:07 PT

Symbolism...literally
In Genesis, the tree of life and the tree of knowledge of good and evil were two separate trees.Genesis 2:8-9"Now the LORD God had planted a garden in the east, in Eden; and there he put the man he had formed. And the LORD God made all kinds of trees grow out of the ground—trees that were pleasing to the eye and good for food. In the middle of the garden were the tree of life and the tree of the knowledge of good and evil."Genesis 3:22"And the LORD God said, "The man has now become like one of us, knowing good and evil. He must not be allowed to reach out his hand and take also from the tree of life and eat, and live forever.""Wisdom is a tree of life:Proverbs 3: 11-18"My son, do not despise the LORD's discipline
    and do not resent his rebuke,because the LORD disciplines those he loves,
    as a father the son he delights in.Blessed is the man who finds wisdom,
    the man who gains understanding,for she is more profitable than silver
    and yields better returns than gold.She is more precious than rubies;
    nothing you desire can compare with her.Long life is in her right hand;
    in her left hand are riches and honor.Her ways are pleasant ways,
    and all her paths are peace.She is a tree of life to those who embrace her;
    those who lay hold of her will be blessed." The fruit of the righteous is a tree of life:Proverbs 11:30"The fruit of the righteous is a tree of life,
    and he who wins souls is wise."A longing fulfilled is a tree of life:Proverbs 13:12"Hope deferred makes the heart sick,
    but a longing fulfilled is a tree of life."The tongue that brings healing is a tree of life:Proverbs 15:4"The tongue that brings healing is a tree of life,
    but a deceitful tongue crushes the spirit."The tree of life is not on earth as we know it:Revelation 2:7"He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches. To him who overcomes, I will give the right to eat from the tree of life, which is in the paradise of God."John had a vision of a new city... where the tree of life will be. A city that is not yet on earth.Revelations 21: 1-8"Then I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away, and there was no longer any sea. I saw the Holy City, the new Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride beautifully dressed for her husband. And I heard a loud voice from the throne saying, "Now the dwelling of God is with men, and he will live with them. They will be his people, and God himself will be with them and be their God. He will wipe every tear from their eyes. There will be no more death or mourning or crying or pain, for the old order of things has passed away."He who was seated on the throne said, "I am making everything new!" Then he said, "Write this down, for these words are trustworthy and true."He said to me: "It is done. I am the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End. To him who is thirsty I will give to drink without cost from the spring of the water of life. He who overcomes will inherit all this, and I will be his God and he will be my son. But the cowardly, the unbelieving, the vile, the murderers, the sexually immoral, those who practice magic arts, the idolaters and all liars—their place will be in the fiery lake of burning sulfur. This is the second death." "The tree of life is SYMBOLIC of eternal life, as is the river of the water of life. We cannot see that tree or trees (there are more than one in the vision, because they are growing on "either side of the river"), or that crystal river, in this life, other than in visions are imagining. It will be seen in that New Jerusalem... when it arrives. It does not exist on the earthly plane that we now inhabit. Revelation 22"Then the angel showed me the river of the water of life, as clear as crystal, flowing from the throne of God and of the Lamb down the middle of the great street of the city. On each side of the river stood the tree of life, bearing twelve crops of fruit, yielding its fruit every month. And the leaves of the tree are for the healing of the nations. No longer will there be any curse. The throne of God and of the Lamb will be in the city, and his servants will serve him. They will see his face, and his name will be on their foreheads. There will be no more night. They will not need the light of a lamp or the light of the sun, for the Lord God will give them light. And they will reign for ever and ever. The angel said to me, "These words are trustworthy and true. The Lord, the God of the spirits of the prophets, sent his angel to show his servants the things that must soon take place.""Behold, I am coming soon! Blessed is he who keeps the words of the prophecy in this book."I, John, am the one who heard and saw these things. And when I had heard and seen them, I fell down to worship at the feet of the angel who had been showing them to me. But he said to me, "Do not do it! I am a fellow servant with you and with your brothers the prophets and of all who keep the words of this book. Worship God!"Then he told me, "Do not seal up the words of the prophecy of this book, because the time is near. Let him who does wrong continue to do wrong; let him who is vile continue to be vile; let him who does right continue to do right; and let him who is holy continue to be holy.""Behold, I am coming soon! My reward is with me, and I will give to everyone according to what he has done. I am the Alpha and the Omega, the First and the Last, the Beginning and the End."Blessed are those who wash their robes, that they may have the right to the tree of life and may go through the gates into the city. Outside are the dogs, those who practice magic arts, the sexually immoral, the murderers, the idolaters and everyone who loves and practices falsehood."I, Jesus, have sent my angel to give you[a] this testimony for the churches. I am the Root and the Offspring of David, and the bright Morning Star."The Spirit and the bride say, "Come!" And let him who hears say, "Come!" Whoever is thirsty, let him come; and whoever wishes, let him take the free gift of the water of life.I warn everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this book: If anyone adds anything to them, God will add to him the plagues described in this book. And if anyone takes words away from this book of prophecy, God will take away from him his share in the tree of life and in the holy city, which are described in this book.He who testifies to these things says, "Yes, I am coming soon."
   Amen. Come, Lord Jesus.The grace of the Lord Jesus be with God's people. Amen."I agree with FoM. The tree of life is part of a vision, John's vision. It "will be"... according to John. "Will be" indicates that it is not now. John saw it in a vision of what "will be". If you put any stock in John's vision, you will believe that every plant of the earth as we know it now will have been done away with.Cannabis is a wonderful plant. A creation. A gift of God. It's something to be thankful for. It can make life easier, better, and healthier and more fulfilling here on earth. It is not "The tree of life" referred to in scripture. We have not seen that "tree" or "plant" growing on this earth. It is symbolic of something far greater than any plant or tree we know of today.It's a part of this creation. It too will disappear when all that is old is taken away and we have a new heaven and a new earth. If you believe in John's vision... all that is old is gone when he sees the tree of life he speaks of.Revelation 21:1"Then I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away, and there was no longer any sea."I do believe in God. I believe he is Yahweh, Jehovah God, The Father, The Son, Jesus Christ, and the Holy Spirit. The creator of all that is. The Alpha and Omega. The beginning and the end. I don't claim to understand the Revelation of John. But I can see that the tree of life in his vision is not something that exists on the earth today.Cannabis is a wonderful plant. A gift from God. I have no doubt of that. But if you believe that there is or will be a literal tree of life... according to the Revelation...you have to believe that it does not exist as one of the plants that belong to the earth today. That tree of life in Revelation represents eternal life. Cannabis is a wonderful plant...but it is not the source of eternal life. As FoM said, if that were true, none who have eaten of the cannabis plant would have experienced death. No one has eaten of that tree... other than the eternal salvation of our souls through Jesus Christ.That tree of life could be symbolic of Jesus being nailed to a tree for our sake. It could be an actual plant. But it obviously does not exist today.That's what I believe, anyway.
[ Post Comment ]


 


Comment #44 posted by FoM on September 23, 2007 at 09:14:33 PT

OverwhelmSam
It does put life in perspective. Life is quite a trip!
[ Post Comment ]


 


Comment #43 posted by OverwhelmSam on September 23, 2007 at 09:10:59 PT

ThanksFoM
I know I get over cynical at times, but that video puts things into perspective. 
[ Post Comment ]


 


Comment #42 posted by FoM on September 23, 2007 at 09:01:59 PT

A Youtube Video I Really Enjoy
Traveling Wilburys - End Of The Linehttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ewWyW6lT1HE
[ Post Comment ]


 


Comment #41 posted by OverwhelmSam on September 23, 2007 at 08:41:28 PT

Hey, It's All Our Fault
If we collectively let it happen, we deserve whatever happens to us and our families.
[ Post Comment ]


 


Comment #40 posted by John Tyler on September 23, 2007 at 08:34:33 PT

value of laziness
The freedom of our country now rest with underpaid lazy government employees who don’t do their jobs. Keep up the good work.
[ Post Comment ]


 


Comment #39 posted by FoM on September 23, 2007 at 07:39:59 PT

Truth
I don't think we have a tree of life on earth because it is symbolic not literal. 
[ Post Comment ]


 


Comment #38 posted by OverwhelmSam on September 23, 2007 at 07:34:44 PT

Toker
Zeitgeist is German and means time ghost. Even the ancient greeks like Plato considered religion to be a useful tool for the control of the thoughts and actions of the uneducated.
[ Post Comment ]


 


Comment #37 posted by Truth on September 23, 2007 at 07:30:03 PT

The Tree of Life
Cannabis provides more for us then any other plant when you look at in terms of food, fiber, fuel and of course, medicine. No other plant provides what cannabis provides in the levels that it provides. Show me a plant that provides more and I will consider it the tree of life. I know of nothing that can provide the way cannabis, the Tree of Life, provides.
[ Post Comment ]


 


Comment #36 posted by FoM on September 23, 2007 at 07:03:19 PT

Hope
Thank you. I really do believe what I said. Children aren't disposable and require a tremendous amount of love and guidance to keep them going in a positive direction.Laws won't keep children from making bad decisions.
[ Post Comment ]


 


Comment #35 posted by FoM on September 23, 2007 at 06:59:01 PT

Tree of Life
I wanted to comment on the Tree of Life. I do not think that Cannabis is the Tree of Life and this is why.I am from a generation that everyone went to church. It was rare when a person skipped church. I also believe that the beginning ( Genesis) and the end ( Revelation) are connected. The tree in Genesis was forbidden and the tree in Revelation was a reward for (overcoming) the pitfalls of life. The Bible also says that you cannot have any god's before Me (God) because God is a jealous God. We are not to exhalt the creation over the Creator. I believe that cannabis is a seed bearing plant and that means it is one of many seed bearing plants that God gave us so it is a Gift from God. I cannot change how I feel because this is a conclusion I came to many years ago from studying the Bible.Revelation 2:7 (New King James Version) 
7 “He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches. To him who overcomes I will give to eat from the tree of life, which is in the midst of the Paradise of God.”PS: If cannabis was the Tree of Life why do people die that smoke it like everyone else? We would have a lot of people living forever and that just isn't happening.
[ Post Comment ]


 


Comment #34 posted by whig on September 23, 2007 at 01:22:39 PT

Correction
Pretty sure that should be ha-Kanehbos Etz Chaim. That should fix it.
[ Post Comment ]


 


Comment #33 posted by whig on September 23, 2007 at 00:32:31 PT

My Hebrew is rusty
So don't take it as being in final gospel form, so to speak.
[ Post Comment ]


 


Comment #32 posted by whig on September 23, 2007 at 00:06:35 PT

Hebrew Prayer over Cannabis
Baruch Atah Adonai Elohenu Melech Ha-olam Borei Peri Kaneh Bos Etz ChaimBlessed Art Thou O Lord Our God, King of the Universe, Creator of Cannabis, the Tree of Life
[ Post Comment ]


 


Comment #31 posted by whig on September 22, 2007 at 22:14:47 PT

"Tree of Life" by the Human Revolution
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jKSzm8i1ekw
[ Post Comment ]


 


Comment #30 posted by Hope on September 22, 2007 at 22:05:58 PT

OverwhelmSam and FoM
Comments 22 and 23.You're so right!
[ Post Comment ]


 


Comment #29 posted by whig on September 22, 2007 at 22:04:15 PT

America needs cannabis
We have a society that is sick, it is full of self hatred and projecting its sickness upon the world. We have not reconciled even between our own people of different color, see Jena, Louisiana.We need cannabis, badly. We need to learn to find peaceful ways of living together. We are dying from this cancer, this hatred of people for one another.I can understand someone wanting to leave, and if you think you want to leave it's probably easier to do it now than later if you think it's going to get much worse before it gets better. But you'll be running again in a few years, and running some more until you find yourself hunted everywhere -- unless we win here.So I'm saying we've got to win here, we've got to defeat the Nazis and do it without violence because we don't want to become them. If all the cannabists leave America, America won't have a chance. Of course, that's not going to happen. We are growing stronger all the time but we are facing the beast more and more, it is aware of us to be sure as we are of it.Those who take an oath to uphold the constitution pledge to protect it from all enemies foreign and domestic. The prohibition of cannabis is unconstitutional. The constitution was amended to prohibit alcohol, at one time, but was never amended to prohibit cannabis. We the people have the inherent right to use cannabis, and no legislature can authorize any deprivation of our right without a constitutional authority.We the people who use cannabis in a sacramental way are further protected and guaranteed by the first amendment to the constitution, to the free exercise of our religion, as further amplified by the US Supreme Court in O Centro Espirita.Cannabis is the tree of life.Kaneh Bos, Etz Chaim.If you believe me, you have the right to use cannabis. Cannabis is legal.Michael
[ Post Comment ]


 


Comment #28 posted by Toker00 on September 22, 2007 at 21:03:12 PT

Here's a real mind blower.
It's two hours long and gets really involved in what our past has been about why our present is so screwed up and where we are headed if we don't wake each other up and resist this. http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=5547481422995115331Zeitgeist.Toke.
[ Post Comment ]


 


Comment #27 posted by FoM on September 22, 2007 at 17:41:40 PT

OverwhelmSam 
Yes I think so. 
[ Post Comment ]


 


Comment #26 posted by OverwhelmSam on September 22, 2007 at 17:29:16 PT

So Then...
...if we can campaign against irresponsible parents, we may be closer to changing marijuana laws as they relate to0 adults. 
[ Post Comment ]


 


Comment #25 posted by FoM on September 22, 2007 at 17:08:24 PT

OverwhelmSam
Children need their parents and a channel to direct their energy. If they don't get a way to burn off their excess energy drugs and drinking can easily feel that void. We should never forget what it was like to be a child looking at the big scary world. 
[ Post Comment ]


 


Comment #24 posted by OverwhelmSam on September 22, 2007 at 17:03:03 PT

You May Have Something There FoM
The parents who are dead set against legalizing and regulating marijuana for adult use, are the parents who not only have the least to do with their own children, but are also abusive and hateful toward their own children. 
[ Post Comment ]


 


Comment #23 posted by FoM on September 22, 2007 at 16:53:58 PT

OverwhelmSam
You're very right. Parents are parents because they wanted to have a child. Raising a child to stay out of trouble is a full time job when children hit a certain age. I was leaning on a corral fence at the fair last night and was telling my friend that these children working with their horses on a Friday night don't have time to get into trouble. Children need to have something they really want to do and do it with all their might. They need their parents support, involvement and sacrifice. That's how I believe we can keep kids off getting too much into drugs or alcohol.
[ Post Comment ]


 


Comment #22 posted by OverwhelmSam on September 22, 2007 at 16:26:31 PT

It's just so wrong FoM
The way we are treated by our government just because parents are too lazy and incompetent when it comes to teaching their children to leave alcohol and drugs alone. Why does the average adult cannabis user have to pay for parents' and government's incompetence?Parents and government want to persecute everyone else for their failures.
[ Post Comment ]


 


Comment #21 posted by rchandar on September 22, 2007 at 16:25:21 PT:

OverwhelmSam
Look, they just have no business in all of it, and you should not be afraid. Lessee...Amsterdam? Lots of people go there without taking any drugs. It can never be complicit with any "crime."Usually, when you stand up to them, demand your rights, all they can do is search you and let you go. Everyone is accountable if you make it so. NEVER accept that kind of name-tagging, they have no authority to really cause you any problems.Possession is possession. That's it. We haven't gotten far along enough in this police state stuff to say that a person who HAS used should be charged as a person who is guilty. NEVER accept that, no matter what their spiel is.rchandar
[ Post Comment ]


 


Comment #20 posted by FoM on September 22, 2007 at 15:38:14 PT

OverwhelmSam
I understand why you would want to leave. I will always live here because I love America. Maybe I can't fix the problems but I see plenty of good people trying to get by as best as they can that care and I would miss them if I left. I love our country but not how it is being run.
[ Post Comment ]


 


Comment #19 posted by FoM on September 22, 2007 at 15:34:15 PT

whig
The Rainbows are peaceful and aren't aggressive by nature so they should not be threatened with a taser but people that grow in the national parks and try to defend it might be.
[ Post Comment ]


 


Comment #18 posted by whig on September 22, 2007 at 15:27:47 PT

Not good for the Rainbow Gathering
http://money.cnn.com/news/newsfeeds/articles/primenewswire/126937.htm
[ Post Comment ]


 


Comment #17 posted by OverwhelmSam on September 22, 2007 at 15:22:17 PT

I Am About Tired of Ignorant Americans
Time to leave this rotten country. I could easily live in Europe, having been stationed there over six years in the military. I know the language, the people and the geography. I have the means to live there for about six months, but then I would have to earn a living as an unskilled immigrant laborer. What the heck, Latinos do it all the time.If my goal of generating monthly income from internet sales is achieved, I will be posting from the vicinity of Dusseldorf Germany. A beautiful city friendly to Americans and few hours train ride to Amstedam. Maybe I'll run into Rick Steeves and share a doobie with him.
[ Post Comment ]


 


Comment #16 posted by FoM on September 22, 2007 at 14:19:20 PT

whig
Hallelujah and Democracy are my favorite songs by Leonard Cohen. 
[ Post Comment ]


 


Comment #15 posted by whig on September 22, 2007 at 14:08:16 PT

kaptinemo
We cannot win if we fight this government head on, but we can take it over and replace it. This is the meaning and intention of the whole democratic concept.
[ Post Comment ]


 


Comment #14 posted by OverwhelmSam on September 22, 2007 at 14:00:28 PT

"I Have An Idea"
Why don't the government just station a cop in each one of our houses so that they can just arrest us and take us to jail whenever we even think about smoking cannabis. Room, board and salary on us of course.How much will We The People allow?
[ Post Comment ]


 


Comment #13 posted by whig on September 22, 2007 at 13:57:28 PT

FoM
This is my favorite Leonard Cohen song.http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rf36v0epfmIHallelujah.
[ Post Comment ]


 


Comment #12 posted by whig on September 22, 2007 at 13:53:07 PT

John Gilmore
I just want to say he's a personal hero of mine and I'm glad to have met him.
[ Post Comment ]


 


Comment #11 posted by FoM on September 22, 2007 at 13:08:37 PT

aolbites
I didn't see the show but I feel sorry for kids growing up in this society. 
[ Post Comment ]


 


Comment #10 posted by aolbites on September 22, 2007 at 12:57:44 PT

Buffer the Children, and Imperil Common Sense
This is just about as off/on topic..Buffer the Children, and Imperil Common Sensehttp://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/09/21/AR2007092100365.html-=snip=-Children have been turned into miniature, high-maintenance consumers who require designer labels to keep up with the Suri Cruises and the Maddox Jolie-Pitts of the world. Political ads use children to mouth demands for universal health care or Social Security reform. They have become the fallback weapon: four feet, 60 pounds and 10 sticky fingers' worth of guilt. When New York Mayor Michael Bloomberg wanted to levy a congestion toll on drivers coming into midtown Manhattan, supporters ran ads using children: Decrease pollution. Do it for the kids. What about the wheezing, coughing grandparents?=-snip=-Cause Everything has got to be about the kids .. kids are more important than adults .. um because they will grow up ... to be adults whose only point of existence is to protect the kids who will grow up to.......
[ Post Comment ]


 


Comment #9 posted by FoM on September 22, 2007 at 12:53:53 PT

Kaptinemo
We sure did know it.
[ Post Comment ]


 


Comment #8 posted by FoM on September 22, 2007 at 12:53:14 PT

Excerpt from a Related Article
Excerpt: Folks, this isn’t trying to provide “Homeland Security.” Deep down you know it and I know it. They’re trying to create a society where they can collect most anything about us in the name of enhancing security. But in the society where your movements and communications are tracked and stored “just in case”, freedom really is an illusion.Complete Article: http://donklephant.com/2007/09/22/but-hey-if-you-dont-have-anything-to-hide/
[ Post Comment ]


 


Comment #7 posted by kaptinemo on September 22, 2007 at 12:49:37 PT:

We knew it was coming all along
Drug law reformers and cannabists, that is.As I had posted at another site, those involved in drug law reform have watched and warned about the trend for ever greater government intrusion into our lives for years. We are, in essence, the 'canary in the mineshaft', because when civil liberties in this country began to be abridged in the name of 'public safety' courtesy of the DrugWar, we sounded the alarm long ago. An alarm few people heard...and one derided by the very government and it's civilian 'anti-drug' cat's-paws supporting those illegal and unwarranted actions as being the complaints of 'druggies'. And now? People who aren't 'druggies' are being hassled by regulations and policies designed to 'only go after the bad people'. They are ineffectual as far as stopping terrorist attacks; much of the mechanisms were in place long before 9/11, as this article makes clear. Didn't do a d**n bit of good prior to that day, huh? But it's just peachy for tracking people critical of this Administration.The problem with being a 'voice in the wilderness' is that few want to listen to what it has to say before the calamity it warns of arrives...and causes havoc that wreaks nations. We've been that voice for a very long time, and only now are others beginning to listen. And the problem with such dual use technologies as described in this article is that they are two-edged swords; one side can slash you. As this technology is doing to our civil liberties.Given that you can expect that the US Government has even more advanced and secretive technologies that it keeps under wraps, we have every reason to believe the USG has more information on its' own citizens that it does on its' opponents. Far more information than it actually needs to 'protect' its' citizens. It remains to be seen what the ultimate use will be, but it doesn't take Einstein to figure that one out. Just look at history, when every government looked at its' own citizens as threats. The results invariably have been tyranny. When that tyranny is eventually challenged, ordinary, innocent people are unlawfully detained, imprisoned, injured and/or killed in the process, and that results in internecine civil wars. Do Americans really think we'll escape that historical process because we're Americans? I'm sure the people behind these programs think so...more fools, them.
[ Post Comment ]


 


Comment #6 posted by FoM on September 22, 2007 at 12:36:53 PT

charmed quark 
I know that the future will get worse because it's too big to stop that I don't often read articles like this because I know it's true and I can't do anything about changing it. It causes worry and nothing much more for me. I like to concentrate on what we might be able to change and that is medical marijuana. 
[ Post Comment ]


 


Comment #5 posted by ekim on September 22, 2007 at 12:31:22 PT

Kapt had this at Petes site bout getting out 
http://www.druglibrary.org/schaffer/legal/singconv.htmDenunciation Art. 46. -1. After the expiry of two years from the date of the coming into force of this Convention (article 41, paragraph 1) any Party may, on its own behalf or on behalf of a territory for which it has international responsibility, and which has withdrawn its consent given in accordance with article 42, denounce this Convention by an instrument in writing deposited with the Secretary-General. 
http://www.drugwarrant.com
[ Post Comment ]


 


Comment #4 posted by charmed quark on September 22, 2007 at 12:26:29 PT

Good post
I saw this yesterday in slashdot and thought of posting it here, but was afraid it was off-topic. I'm surprise you found it. How "1984". So now our reading material can make us a suspect. I better not carry a copy of the IOM report on medical marijuana when I fly.This shows how the government has used the war on terror to ramp up the drug war. They started conflating the two almost immediately. Remember when they said that illegal drug users in the US were supporting the Taliban? But then it turned out that opium production went up after we suppressed the Taliban.
[ Post Comment ]


 


Comment #3 posted by FoM on September 22, 2007 at 10:31:08 PT

nuevo mexican 
Things aren't like they were and never will be again. I am only glad I lived during times of not fearing like we do now.I hope you have a great Saturday too. Right now I am listening to Leonard Cohen and enjoying this beautiful fall day. 
Leonard Cohen
[ Post Comment ]


 


Comment #2 posted by nuevo mexican on September 22, 2007 at 10:23:12 PT

Thanks FOM, we're all 'Andrew Meyers' now!
Yes, the Police State has been in place for years, it's only becoming obvious to those who refused to look.What kind of democracy spies on their own citizens, here or abroad,and breaks the laws they are supposed to uphold?Only a criminal one, and we KNOW this to be true!So here's a link, which suggests we take copies of Greg Palast's book 'Armed Madhouse', and wave them at our media, and legislators and congress-critters, as the subject of the book, is what got Andrew Meyer tasered:The stolen election of 2004 and why John Kerry didn't 
contest it. Let's get this subject back into the mainstream, like the 911 movement has of this last 911.WE should all do as this video suggests, and take it even further:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g047IFspaJAListen to Randy Rhodes and Richard Greene (911 is one of his specialties, and on a nationally syndicated radio show!
www.AirAmericaradio.com, Lot's of calls from people like those here at C-News, great guests, and Cannabis issues come up alot. If you like C-News, you'll love most of the guy and gals (Rachael Maddow is all over Blackwater, just so you know!)You won't be disappointed! Have a great Saturday FOM!
[ Post Comment ]


 


Comment #1 posted by FoM on September 22, 2007 at 08:59:07 PT

Just a Note
I posted this article because I thought I should but not really because of our issue. I'm glad I am not into traveling. It sounds terrible out there.
[ Post Comment ]





  Post Comment