cannabisnews.com: Marijuana Advocates Defend Law Marijuana Advocates Defend Law Posted by CN Staff on August 25, 2007 at 09:49:00 PT By Raymond Rendleman, The Portland Observer Source: Portland Observer Oregon -- If medical-marijuana activists were fazed by the latest political onslaughts, they did their best to hide their feelings.Business proceeded as usual at this month's cardholders' meeting with no overwheming sense of dread in losing the right voters gave them in 1998 to use doctor-prescribed cannabis for a certain set of medical conditions. A conservative Oregon Republican is attacking the law with a referendum to appeal the statute. The Drug Enforcement Administration has also stepped up enforcement of federal laws against marijuana.Most cardholders respond by expressing support for a strict interpretation of the state law.Oregon's top advocate for marijuana legalization defended her organization's continued effort to keep the program tightly controlled as federal agents investigate another high-profile medical marijuana promoter Don DuPay for growing more plants than the law allows.The DuPay case "is a fluke in the system," says Madeline Martinez, executive director for the state chapter of the National Organization for the Reform of Marijuana Laws. "We have to make sure that we are always, always covering our behinds."DuPay has claimed that the DEA overstepped its authority by reeling in his concerted efforts to provide for eligible patients, but Martinez refuses to take any chances as her group develops a political game plan.NORML's staff accordingly kept close watch over the happenings at the cardholder meeting this month. The members were allowed to offer cuttings from marijuana plants, but no exchange of money or any other type of consideration was permitted."If you are caught doing so, you will be asked to leave with your membership revoked, effective immediately," Martinez said.Medical-marijuana cardholders may only reimburse licensed growers for the cost of the utilities that the plants require.In what Martinez called "the highlight of these peoples' month," several hundred cardholders lined up around the block for pieces of rare species of hemp noted for special effects. They also gathered around a table with a large sign saying, "It's NORML to write to your elected officials," which encouraged letters against the initiative petition filed by associates of Kevin Mannix, the Republican lawmaker who lost a race for governor in 2002.Mannix calls his proposed repeal a "crime-fighting" measure that would still allow for synthetic marijuana to be used as medicine, but Martinez sees the Oregon Medical Marijuana Act as a huge success."The beauty of the OMMA is that it's self-supporting," says Martinez, citing the over $900,000 in revenue that the program's fees generated for state human-resource departments. "If the Mannix bill passed, taxpayers would have to pay for the artificial drugs made by big pharma."Going back to the same arguments that passed the act in the first place, Martinez tells the heart-warming story of a glaucoma-plagued elderly woman who found her only comfort in the pressure-reducing effects of marijuana.At least one grandmotherly type by the name of "Betty" attended the meeting, but she declined to give her last name, saying that she feared community ostrasization. Most of the attendees were middle-aged and white.Martinez, whose ancestry is a mix of Mexican, Navajo and Apache, fears the stereotyping of Oregon's nearly 15,000 medical-marijuana beneficiaries and actively seeks to diversify the membership. She points out the relative homogeny of Oregon at large, saying, "Our program has become diverse, because diversity draws diversity, and having a brown person at the helm really draws people in."One of the program's many African Americans, Linda Mason, has quickly advanced in the organization. She contends that the most important thing she brings to the group is her first-hand experience with the lack of discrimination protection for cardholding employees."I had some dirty urine and got fired from my job even though I had a card, so I became an activist ever since," Mason says. "The days of sitting back and not doing anything are over."A powerful pair of advocates, they agree that they have a good chance of protecting and refining the medical-marijuana law."We write letters and tell our cardholders what's going on and who to contact," Martinez says. "We found when we started we can't really affect that much change in a year, but we have the momentum of six years behind us." Note: Strict rules protect controversial medicine.Source: Portland Observer, The (OR)Author: Raymond Rendleman, The Portland ObserverPublished: August 22, 2007Copyright: 2007 The Portland ObserverContact: news portlandobserver.comWebsite: http://www.portlandobserver.com/CannabisNews Medical Marijuana Archiveshttp://cannabisnews.com/news/list/medical.shtml Home Comment Email Register Recent Comments Help Comment #114 posted by FoM on August 28, 2007 at 17:21:44 PT Dankhank I have never seen a series I enjoyed more then Ice Road Truckers. I marvel at man's ingenuity. I liked all the men but I really like the young man named Jay with the baby. What a dedicated man. [ Post Comment ] Comment #113 posted by Dankhank on August 28, 2007 at 16:56:44 PT yea ... add Ice Truckers to the list :-)They some craaazy guys ... [ Post Comment ] Comment #112 posted by FoM on August 28, 2007 at 16:48:43 PT Off Topic I checked my fte web site stats today. I don't check them very often and I smiled at the one entry I saw since I just loved Ice Road Truckers. The address was from The Northwest Territory, Yellowknife, Canada. I just thought that was cool. [ Post Comment ] Comment #111 posted by FoM on August 28, 2007 at 16:19:23 PT Dankhank Thank you for understanding. I really want the laws on marijuana reformed. Someday maybe drugs will be legalized but that is way off in the future. I focus on short term solutions to problems not long term solutions. If the laws on cannabis were finally changed I probably would get more involved in earth related issues but for now we haven't won and I believe in only putting one foot in front of the other. Long term goals might not be reached in my productive time. [ Post Comment ] Comment #110 posted by Dankhank on August 28, 2007 at 15:19:24 PT FoM I understand your dilemma ... All who spend anytime here know you to be focused in your mind on Cannabis reform to the exclusion of any other topic ... 'cept horses, dogs, and the people who own them ... and family, friends, CNewsers ...all these things are good things ......I heartily agree with your mission.But I view a larger drug war that is as egregious as anything done to Cannabists.I rarely initiate talk here regarding other substances, but must reply if the subject digresses in such fashion.Dimly, I recall msgs a few years ago re: some herb, was it Ephedra?, killed a few people and was banned ... there go those abusers again ... It wasn't khat ...Anyhow, I love this place, been a refuge for years ... LURKERS!! The mission of this site is Cannabis reform ... The management can't be held liable for any other topic we warriors call our own missions ... Nowhere else is there a better resource for getting sharp insight into virtually ANY topic. [ Post Comment ] Comment #109 posted by FoM on August 28, 2007 at 05:50:17 PT Dankhank I have done my best not to promote drug legalization as an issue but only marijuana reform. I don't want people who read CNews to think I am a drug legalizer. Libertarians are more into all drugs but I can't violate my conscience. What I do is a labor of love and whenever we do something important like this we must stay true to ourselves or why even bother? I don't follow ideologies but my heart. [ Post Comment ] Comment #108 posted by whig on August 27, 2007 at 23:36:27 PT Dankhank Are you referring to khat? [ Post Comment ] Comment #107 posted by dankhank on August 27, 2007 at 21:37:29 PT Speed freaks ... are the same regardless of the method of ingestion ...The physical effects of most kinds of "speed" are remarkably similar, whether you eat four "footballs" in 1969 or vaporize "crank or ice or whatever" in 2007 or crush up the footballs and inject ...Point is ... some will opt for the ingestion method that they prefer ... eat, vaporize, inject ... and none can stop those who will do it. All types of "'phetamines" can be abused ... and ... what was that herb outlawed a few year ago that mimics speed?so let's just get cops out of the equation. [ Post Comment ] Comment #106 posted by Toker00 on August 27, 2007 at 15:10:21 PT I guess when I say legalize ALL drugs... in the back of my mind my intentions are sincere. Stop the damage done to our people just because substances are not LEGAL. Stop dividing the people by what substances they ingest. Substances are either beneficial, or they are not. Schedule them as such, not in the corporatist racist way they are now. Label the good ones beneficial, the bad ones poison. Educate humanity in the differences between abuse and use. Just be fair and humane about it. But do SOMETHING for Humans sake. Prisons don't heal and paying fines don't alleviate anything for what a person takes drugs. Drugs can be taken for a lifetime if they are pure, dose accurate, and moderation employed. Just ask anyone who has taken prescription drugs all their life. It can be done SAFELY. Let's not discuss the poisons like street meth, k? That shit should obviously not be manufactured at all...Toke. [ Post Comment ] Comment #105 posted by Toker00 on August 27, 2007 at 14:40:58 PT Ok. Thanks, whig. Legalizing Cannabis first really is a no brainer. Because not only would you be allowing sick people their medicine, you would be giving Doctors the ammunition to DEFEAT other addictions, including METH. Now meth users won't buy cannabis on the street because it's not the particular high they seek but they might be persuaded to use it as a medicine to end their addiction nightmare. If they are going to get busted, they don't want it to be with cannabis, but with meth, if anything, so they stay away from ILLEGAL cannabis. At their own peril...And of course, the recreational and injustrial users of cannabis would be, and this is no lie, the most GRATEFUL PEOPLE ON EARTH! Toke. [ Post Comment ] Comment #104 posted by whig on August 27, 2007 at 10:12:19 PT Toker00 And I've said it before but it bears repeating, MDMA is safer than meth. MDMA has tremendous benefit to some people and because it loses its most notable effect when used too frequently, is less likely to be addictive. This is not to say that MDMA is safe, but I am speaking of comparative safety.I would rather people just use cannabis but I understand people will make other choices and some of them will be justified for reasons that I cannot know. I could not have gotten through my pain without knowing that it could be removed. MDMA can remove all pain, physical, and emotional. Just for a moment in time, a few hours at most.Meth doesn't do this. Meth is far more toxic than MDMA. But MDMA is often impure, and of unknown origin in any case, because it is illegal, Schedule I. When we are done ending cannabis prohibition, and when we are talking about larger drug policy reform, appropriate regulations for psychedelic research and therapy must be made and MDMA would be the first best candidate to introduce through such a protocol. [ Post Comment ] Comment #103 posted by whig on August 27, 2007 at 09:52:32 PT Toker00 #98 If cannabis were legal I think a lot of people who use meth would find it helpful and might switch if they can get cannabis more easily than meth. Right now meth is actually easier to get in a lot of places and certainly from legal or quasi-legal (friends who got it legally) places.I don't think it makes much sense to talk about how we should deal with hard drugs while cannabis remains illegal in most parts of this country. End cannabis prohibition and we can do harm reduction. [ Post Comment ] Comment #102 posted by FoM on August 27, 2007 at 06:42:57 PT Afterburner You said: Maybe so, but we wouldn't need so many of them (DEA agents) then. I agree with you. [ Post Comment ] Comment #101 posted by Had Enough on August 27, 2007 at 06:34:44 PT Gonzo Is gone.For now. [ Post Comment ] Comment #100 posted by potpal on August 27, 2007 at 05:29:23 PT Doh! That's GonzO [ Post Comment ] Comment #99 posted by potpal on August 27, 2007 at 05:28:23 PT Gonza Be going...going...gone. [ Post Comment ] Comment #98 posted by Toker00 on August 27, 2007 at 03:30:22 PT whig Methamphetamine is not something I am too familiar with. There were black pills and pink pills (hearts?) and others that I experimented with, but the only powder Meth I took was home made. It was disgusting. The pills were much better. That's why I don't understand why people put trash in their bodies. If it's known to be dangerous then find something SAFER. That's just common sense. That's why I stopped with the Alcohol and Tobacco. Cannabis is much safer. I would never consider using speed again.Whatever is banned legally will wind up on the street in the black market. Yet, how do you keep a substance from being available if you don't ban it? Will prohibition ever work for any drug? Will Humans ever be Drug Free? It doesn't seem that way so why ban anything? I wasn't aware Meth could not be re-formulated into a Safer drug. Maybe these substance that have no real value should be re-classified as Poison and regulated like Nukes.Who has the all the answers? No one. But we know Prohibition isn't the answer either. Toke. [ Post Comment ] Comment #97 posted by Sam Adams on August 26, 2007 at 22:07:06 PT leave people alone just wanted to chime in on the discussion - as we discuss what "we" should do about illegal drugs. Just remember that it won't be "us" who rolls out the policy - it will be our government, which seems to spread crime & despair wherever it gets involved (afganishtan, iraq, New orleans). Maybe we should have the government butt out of people's lives on this one! Look at human nature. The current generation of people represents a huge success in reducing tobacco use and even alcohol. But look what's happened - the obestity crisis. Kids in some neighborhoods have a 50% chance of diabetes - this will break our health care system!Look at American sexual policy. Starting in the 30's we banned most sex from mainstream entertainment and even life. The Euros aren't afraid of women's breasts! But look at what's happened. American women are now hyper-sexualized from age 10 on. You can't stamp out vice! It's impossible. People work hard & they need a break. Humans were never designed by evolution or anyone else to live perfectly healthy, clean lives.It's the hypocrisy of today that sets us apart. The political class sticks its nose into every cranny of your personal life, even as we're ruled by a bunch of drunk, drug-taking, philandering, prostitute-buying flabby sleazeballs. [ Post Comment ] Comment #96 posted by afterburner on August 26, 2007 at 21:44:16 PT FoM & BGreen "DEA agent ... answered me and said he would never lose his job because there will always be those who will sell drugs to a kid."Maybe so, but we wouldn't need so many of them (DEA agents) then. [ Post Comment ] Comment #95 posted by The GCW on August 26, 2007 at 20:21:00 PT nuevo mexican I can not get the movie to play. Perhaps with help I can get it on tomorrow.-0-“They must find it difficult…Those who have taken authority as the truth, rather than truth as the authority.”- Gerald Massey [ Post Comment ] Comment #94 posted by whig on August 26, 2007 at 19:33:14 PT nuevo mexican Thanks. I watched that a few weeks back. [ Post Comment ] Comment #93 posted by FoM on August 26, 2007 at 19:29:37 PT nuevo mexican It's good to see you. Did you make it out of the nasty weather yet? [ Post Comment ] Comment #92 posted by whig on August 26, 2007 at 19:15:25 PT Toker00 #70 There's lots of pharmaceutical meth and amphetamine and ritalin and everything like that on the street right now. In fact that was predominant among those I knew. It was readily available and abused, sometimes by people crushing and snorting the pills, etc. It's not a safe drug, it's never been a safe drug, it will never be a safe drug no matter how pure. That doesn't mean it doesn't have medicinal use, but it's dangerous. Let's be clear about that. [ Post Comment ] Comment #91 posted by gloovins on August 26, 2007 at 19:12:04 PT I know... but cannabis is the opposite really - maybe not flying an airplane or conucting a train but the real money today is the prohibition of cannabis... Lawsuit: Taxman's bite of marijuana treat too bigBy CLAUDIA PINTO Staff WriterA little snap, crackle and marijuana got a concertgoer popped at Bonnaroo.Now William J. Hoak is suing state officials for over-taxing the confiscated "rice creeper treat," a Rice Krispies treat that contains marijuana. In court papers, Hoak claims the marijuana was taxed based on the weight of the Rice Krispies treat — which includes cereal, marshmallows, among other ingredients — not just the marijuana. Hoak has been fined $11,506 in taxes...snipped, rest herehttp://www.tennessean.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070826/NEWS01/708260377 [ Post Comment ] Comment #90 posted by nuevo mexican on August 26, 2007 at 19:10:01 PT Great thread.....check this out! Just wonderful, nice, thoughtful discussion! Now to put it ALL into perspective, GCW and whig, FOM and all! Watch this! www.zeitgeistmovie.com [ Post Comment ] Comment #89 posted by whig on August 26, 2007 at 18:00:48 PT lineman "The best meth out there is Adderal which is pure methamphetamine, available at any Walgreens."Meth is only dangerous if it is used often, it is perfectly healthy to use it once a month." Adderal is not methamphetamine. Desoxyn is meth. It is not "perfectly healthy to use" even once. [ Post Comment ] Comment #88 posted by FoM on August 26, 2007 at 17:37:44 PT gloovins I know you didn't. I don't know how people can drink so much and do anything productive at all. [ Post Comment ] Comment #87 posted by gloovins on August 26, 2007 at 17:30:48 PT good 2 see u too FoM - my comment, wasn't in ref to yr drink mention...just a little joke I had just gotten...btw the koffeeshops in holland & the calif medcann dispensiaries are laughing all the way to the bank at them crazy drunkards! [ Post Comment ] Comment #86 posted by FoM on August 26, 2007 at 17:17:40 PT gloovins It's good to see you. I have enough trouble speaking right and that's with no alcohol. [ Post Comment ] Comment #85 posted by gloovins on August 26, 2007 at 16:43:29 PT hi all - just got a funny email that is so true... Drunken Language... Things That Are Difficult To Say When You're Drunk:1. Innovative2. Preliminary3. Proliferation4. CinnamonThings That Are Very Difficult To Say When You're Drunk:1. Specificity2. Anti-constitutionalistically3. Passive-aggressive disorder4. Transubstantiate Things That Are Downright Impossible To Say When You're Drunk:1. Thanks, but I don't want to have sex.2. Nope, no more booze for me!3. Sorry, but you're not really my type.4. Taco Bell? No thanks, I'm not hungry.5. Good evening, officer. Isn't it lovely out tonight?6. Oh, I couldn't! No one wants to hear me sing karaoke.7. I'm not interested in fighting you.8. Thank you, but I won't make any attempt to dance, I have no coordination. I'd hate to look like a fool!9. Where is the nearest bathroom? I refuse to piss in this parking lot or on the road side.10. I must be going home now as I have to work in the morning. [ Post Comment ] Comment #84 posted by lineman on August 26, 2007 at 16:22:34 PT meth > Also Adderal (ADHD medicince) is THE best Meth out there.Not true - Adderal contains four different amphetamine salts, and makes most users feel crappy for many hours. The best meth out there is Adderal which is pure methamphetamine, available at any Walgreens. Meth is only dangerous if it is used often, it is perfectly healthy to use it once a month. [ Post Comment ] Comment #83 posted by Toker00 on August 26, 2007 at 16:07:01 PT For those who like music with their activism... and have a little chunk change laying around for accomodations...http://www.wearechange.org/91107/9-10-07/concert/Toke. [ Post Comment ] Comment #82 posted by FoM on August 26, 2007 at 15:54:42 PT RevRayGreen Thank you! [ Post Comment ] Comment #81 posted by RevRayGreen on August 26, 2007 at 15:46:39 PT Comment #68 FoM I will use that many times in the future, thanks. [ Post Comment ] Comment #80 posted by FoM on August 26, 2007 at 15:36:38 PT Toker00 I got my first amphetamine based diet pill when I was 10 from a family doctor. It was still legal and my best friend's dad was a pharmacist and owned his own store. We watched the store during lunch for him from time to time and she would dump out the diet pills and she passed them around the cafeteria at Catholic School. That didn't happen until I was older and in my teens. I never drank anything until I was almost 18 and got sick, got caught by my parents and didn't touched it again for decades! LOL! [ Post Comment ] Comment #79 posted by FoM on August 26, 2007 at 15:31:04 PT Getting It Out Of Our System That's what this thread is to me. I hope when it's all said and done we feel a little better if for no other reason then it's good to let it out now and then. [ Post Comment ] Comment #78 posted by Toker00 on August 26, 2007 at 15:30:32 PT As long as someone SELLS drugs to kids... You know, as a matter of fact, when I was a kid no one sold me anything. There were porno, alcohol, switch blades, sawed off shotguns, hand guns... It was always GIVEN to me by adults, or other children. How about you guys? Ever buy drugs and the other sh*t, on your first experience, or was it given to you?Toke. [ Post Comment ] Comment #77 posted by Toker00 on August 26, 2007 at 15:24:15 PT Hope you're funny... But you're right!"It sounds like a meeting of the British Parliament!"I've watched 'em too. They get it on!Toke. [ Post Comment ] Comment #76 posted by BGreen on August 26, 2007 at 15:20:36 PT Yes, somebody will sell things to kids Booze, porn, guns, drugs, you name it, somebody will sell something to the kids.How about we just go after those who sell all prohibited items to kids and leave everybody else alone, Mr. DEA agent?The DEA mentality is similar to burning down your house to get rid of the dust buildup.The Reverend Bud Green [ Post Comment ] Comment #75 posted by Hope on August 26, 2007 at 15:16:38 PT Good grief, Wayne! comment 36 "...every 5 minutes I thought my friends and I were going to start beating the crap out of each other." That sounds like quite an evening! I'm certainly glad to have missed that one, and I'm glad you survived it unscathed. It sounds like a meeting of the British Parliament! [ Post Comment ] Comment #74 posted by Hope on August 26, 2007 at 15:07:32 PT This thread is a very good discussion... I haven't any where near read it all...but I was just thinking. Wouldn't it be wonderful if this sort of conversation was being held in the halls of government power among our leaders and those with the power to legislate these matters? This is the discussion that our leaders should be having. They should be knowing about these things as well as the people here do. They should be as rational, intelligent, sane, realistic, reasonable and compassionate as the people here are. These are the words and thoughts that should be coming from our leaders.Instead our leaders and legislators are spouting propaganda and showboating and politicking and promoting crime, criminality, imprisonment, and destruction. They keep promoting more of the same irrational methods that continue to fail and cause more trouble and destruction, and grief than ever. We are always going to have problems. We are always, in this life, going to have sorrow and grief...by why make it worse and worse, and more and more destructive, like they are obviously doing? What a rut they are in, and they keep everyone else, the whole nation, the whole world in, when it comes to drug policy. Most of them seem to be clinging to the rut and digging it deeper, in fact. Yes. Would that the halls of power rang with such discussion and reasoning as there is in this thread. We'd all...all of humanity and society, be a lot better off. [ Post Comment ] Comment #73 posted by Hope on August 26, 2007 at 14:50:00 PT "Good, Honest Fun in Your Home Town" In reference to comment 49http://www.news-gazette.com/news/local/2007/08/26/demonstrators_gather_to_march_againstI'm sure the ads change all the time, but when I brought up the article, "Demonstrators gather to march against drugs", the page I got has an advertisement...completely across the top of the page, in bright red, with black white and gold lettering, saying, "Good, Honest Fun in Your Home Town" and "Live Responsibly" in smaller letters. It's an advertisement for Miller High Life beer. It's an advertisement for alcohol! Alcohol? "Good, Honest Fun in Your Hometown", promoted by alcohol? "Good"? "Honest"? "Fun"? Beer is all that, and cannabis is "Bad"? "Dishonest" and "Not Fun"? Ironic, to say the least. The hypocrisy of the mindset among those who have no problem with regulating, controlling, accepting, and using alcohol and yet, at the same time feel obligated to demonize cannabis, and it's use, and terrorize, persecute, and prosecute it's users and sellers and "manufacturers" and their families, neighbors, and friends, is absolutely and completely ludicrous. In my lifetime, I doubt that I've seen more mass ignorance and stupidity in the people of this society than I have in the matter of cannabis prohibition.Any prohibition of a substance, including alcohol, that quite a few people want to use, is inviting disaster of the kind that we have seen borne out by drug and alcohol prohibition. But the completely senseless, idiotic, destructive, and life and family destroying government prohibition of cannabis has few parallels in history. Cannabis is not nearly as dangerous as alcohol. It's not toxic or lethal, at all, in any dose, and, of course, alcohol certainly can be. People get sick, often, and occasionally, die, from alcohol overdose. We won't even get into liver disease and violence and accidents.It's incomprehensible that cannabis prohibition has gone on for so long, when it's prohibition is so screamingly obviously, much, much, much more destructive, not to mention, expensive, than legalization and regulation? [ Post Comment ] Comment #72 posted by FoM on August 26, 2007 at 14:45:33 PT BGreen One time before CNews was even made I went to MSNBC and CNN news chats for over a year. I was a regular there and often had guests answer my questions. This one time we had a DEA agent from a rough part of New York called Hunt's Point. It has a bad reputation. I ask what he would do for a job once drugs are legalized. He answered me and said he would never lose his job because there will always be those who will sell drugs to a kid. [ Post Comment ] Comment #71 posted by BGreen on August 26, 2007 at 14:33:45 PT Nobody should go to jail for using any drug We still can't let the cops hunt down these hard drug users like worthless wild animals just to put them into treatment.No cops unless people are actually committing crimes against other people.FoM, you're right about the diet pill theory. We had more people addicted to diet pills after they became a controlled substance than when they were available without a prescription.The same can be said about most illegal drugs. The more the government tries to restrict and eliminate access, the more users and addicts ... and criminal involvement we get.The Reverend Bud Green [ Post Comment ] Comment #70 posted by Toker00 on August 26, 2007 at 14:33:00 PT whig The Meth that is on the street is not the same as in a Doctor's office. That's what I mean by dirty drugs. The safety MUST be regulated. [ Post Comment ] Comment #69 posted by FoM on August 26, 2007 at 14:05:30 PT Dankhank I agree that Meth is legal and prescribed for certain conditions. If people would stick to one prescribed amphetamine like Dexadrine a day they would probably be ok since many people including me took one diet pill a day on and off for years. [ Post Comment ] Comment #68 posted by FoM on August 26, 2007 at 13:53:06 PT Another Comment I have always said that a person who is addicted to hard drug shouldn't go to jail. That's not legalization though. [ Post Comment ] Comment #67 posted by BGreen on August 26, 2007 at 13:46:44 PT The cops are more dangerous than hard drugs Addicts use hard drugs to destroy themselves. Cops use hard drugs to gain power and control, just as they do with cannabis.By legalize, I mean removing cops from a medical situation.I've got a strong feeling that we'll never remove the cops from the cannabis equation unless we remove the cops from ALL medical intrusions.The Reverend Bud Green [ Post Comment ] Comment #66 posted by whig on August 26, 2007 at 13:33:13 PT Legal drugs kill I don't know why people are talking about legalizing hard drugs. Hard drugs are legal now.Meth is legal. Cocaine is legal. Opiates are legal.All of these are addictive, all of these are capable of killing.The only difference in California is that doctors can also recommend cannabis.So why shouldn't doctors be able to recommend cannabis anywhere? They have a first amendment right to do so, confirmed by the courts. [ Post Comment ] Comment #65 posted by whig on August 26, 2007 at 13:17:18 PT Toker00 Meth is legal. It is Desoxyn, a prescription drug.MDMA is safer than meth. MDMA is Schedule I. [ Post Comment ] Comment #64 posted by whig on August 26, 2007 at 13:11:02 PT Wayne #36 I wouldn't trust raw tobacco too far, it's a lot better than the processed stuff but there is still the fact that nicotine is a neurotoxin.Remember that some plants are poison. [ Post Comment ] Comment #63 posted by Dankhank on August 26, 2007 at 13:07:13 PT Methamphetamine is a medicine ... methamphetamine is a drug used to treat medical conditions ...What people prone to meth addiction do to themselves is a medical problem. Meth Addiction is medical ... there should be NO cops involved.Keep stuff illegal and the black-market will remain strong.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Methamphetamine [ Post Comment ] Comment #62 posted by BGreen on August 26, 2007 at 13:05:05 PT I've lost more friends to booze than anything We're going to lose people, and we have to understand that the vast majority of people would never touch meth, not because of the legal status, but because it's poison.Legalization does not mean everybody will use something. It means we can better regulate and monitor these substances, we can eliminate the stigma so the addict doesn't become more and more of a criminal, we can eliminate the violence that the cops have injected into the system, and we can eliminate the "forbidden fruit" nature of things and let them be judged based solely on the merits and consequences of the facts. Few people would actually choose the tooth loss and dyer health effects of meth if they weren't constantly told that cannabis is just as bad as meth.The failed war on drugs has put us in exactly the same position as the failed war against Iraq. There is no easy way out, and a lot of people are going to suffer because of the actions of our government, but we just have to end both wars. We just have to.I understand how strongly you feel, but the only option besides change is doing the same thing, and that has been a miserable failure.A major breakthrough will come when people are educated about the many different types of cannabis. People just don't have a clue that there are so many different effects possible.Not all cannabis makes you sit on the couch and fall asleep. That is extremely beneficial for people who need a little help falling asleep without taking pills, but it doesn't help the person who already sits on the couch and falls asleep.These people would benefit from a Sativa strain which would have a soaring, energizing effect. This would be the perfect cannabis for people hooked on meth and/or cocaine.People in pain don't need to take opiates or synthetic opiates when there are good Indica strains that provide not only pain relief but also mood enhancement.I never thought what happened to me would ever happen but it did. Now, I truly believe that it most likely will happen to some of you.Even if cannabis was perfectly legal, the cops would have used some other lie against me just because they sought to destroy me. They wield power that is unstoppable as long as there is any semblance of a "drug war."I've avoided the subject in the past but I've had a change of heart about a lot of things, all after dealing with people who have no heart.The Reverend Bud Green [ Post Comment ] Comment #61 posted by FoM on August 26, 2007 at 11:41:13 PT BGreen I understand why you feel the way you do but my conscience doesn't let me agree with the saying legalize hard drugs. I know of 4 people who died violent deaths from getting strung out on meth. I don't know a lot of people in that aspect either. [ Post Comment ] Comment #60 posted by BGreen on August 26, 2007 at 11:37:57 PT FoM We either have to drop these preconceived notions about meth and other dangerous drugs or else we have to accept the fact that we'll always have cops terrorizing humans over medical matters.Most people I've known have used harder drugs ONLY because cannabis wasn't available. Others tried meth and cocaine because they needed an energy boost, but the addiction took over.A doctor could easily prescribe a pure amphetamine, possibly in a flavored syrup that couldn't be cooked down and injected or smoked, and then the doctor could help the patient with the addiction without the toxic effects of bathtub meth or psychotic cops.There is nothing that's going to miraculously save all of the addicts that prohibition has created.MANY addicts will be able to stop their addictions to hard drugs with a legal supply of cannabis, just like MANY hard drug addicts never would have started using hard drugs if there was a legal supply of cannabis.The "high" of cannabis, while neither psychedelic, narcotic or serotonin related, provides the general sense of well-being which is what most hard drug users are trying to find with their pills and powders.As I found out so horribly a week ago, we either have to completely stop these terroristic cops smack dab in their steps, or surrender our freedoms, self-respect, household possessions as well as our Constitutional rights.My conclusion? PROHIBITION MUST STOP! NOW! COMPLETELY!The Reverend Bud Green [ Post Comment ] Comment #59 posted by FoM on August 26, 2007 at 11:37:20 PT Toker00 We do have a form of legal speed already. It's called caffeine. I don't believe there is anything natural in Meth. [ Post Comment ] Comment #58 posted by Toker00 on August 26, 2007 at 11:26:41 PT It wouldn't be Meth, but I hear what you are sayin Let's just call it Legal Speed that comes from a Natural source, not a Man-Made Chemical source. The Natural Ups and Downs. Defending on what Alteration the Conscience needs. Natural Recreational Substances. Safer and less-dangerous than the only available alternatives we have, Illegal Drugs and Legal, Chemically Manipulated Drugs for Profit. Public Education on what Drugs really are, as opposed to what we are lead to believe they are by a Fascist Government, a Greedy (Cruel) Majority, and an Ignorant Society. Educate, Liberate, Recreate!Toke. [ Post Comment ] Comment #57 posted by FoM on August 26, 2007 at 10:03:35 PT Toker00 I wouldn't have any respect for a legal supplier of Meth. I have a limit as to what I feel is ok. [ Post Comment ] Comment #56 posted by Toker00 on August 26, 2007 at 10:00:08 PT Celebrities? (We are having a discussion not an argument Lady FoM :)) ANYONE can get what they want anytime they have the money for it. Even most celebs choose not to abandon self. Most Humans in general do. So, I guess what I am saying is, you can't help someone if they don't want your help, regardless of need. Legal or Illegal, people are going to take drugs. Why not make them legal and safer? Educate instead of Incarcerate. Love instead of Hate. Do away with the ignorance of the past and embrace an enlightened future where people really DO CARE about each other instead of destroying for the sake of...what? A DRUG FREE SOCIETY? Or a Corporate controlled monopoly of every substance we need for medicine or nutrition? No Self Medication any more? We must be free to chose or the damage will never be stopped.Toke. [ Post Comment ] Comment #55 posted by FoM on August 26, 2007 at 09:58:56 PT museman I agree that drug addiction is a disease and it is very hard to break the cycle. We had self help groups back in the 70s where you could go and talk to a counselor with no judgment at all. Many of the people that went there were still using hard drugs but they were trying and that is all anyone can hope for. If you can keep a person alive until they figure out how hard drugs are a dead end street then everyone wins. Jail will harden them. Hate will make them hate. We should ask why a person is doing drugs. Then maybe in time they will be guided out of that mind set. Most of the counselors were reformed hard drug users so they knew how to help. [ Post Comment ] Comment #54 posted by Christen-Mitchell on August 26, 2007 at 09:57:45 PT: Colorado Day of Protest On Monday, August 27, please join Medical Marijuana and Reform activists at these two exciting events. 1. Protest in support of Jack Branson. Jack is a Colorado medical marijuana patient who suffers from HIV/AIDS and is being prosecuted for growing about a dozen plants at his Thorton home. His jury trial begins Monday, and the Adams County District Attorney is bringing several felony charges against him which could send him to prison for years. If Jack is convicted and sent to prison, he believes that without access to medical marijuana, he will die. For more on this case click here.Supporters will be meeting at the main entrance to the Adams County Justice Center at 8:00 a.m. on Monday morning. The address is 1100 Judicial Center Drive, Brighton, CO 80601. Click here for directions. 2. Rally in support of new Denver Marijuana Initiative. Please join Sensible Colorado, Safer, and Citizens for a Safer Denver at the public hearing on the new Denver marijuana initiative on Monday, Aug. 27, at the Denver City-County Building, 1437 Bannock St. in Denver (Map). There will be a press conference prior to the hearing at 5 p.m., so please try to make it by 4:45 p.m. For more info contact evan saferchoice.org. Colorado NORML [ Post Comment ] Comment #53 posted by museman on August 26, 2007 at 09:50:10 PT causes and effects Drug 'addiction' is a dis-ease. It has at it's roots a failed society. The situations and events in a persons life that leads them to make wrong choices concerning various substances they can consume, have their cause in social and economic imbalance.The reason why there is prohibition in the first place is because of this same imbalance, and all the ignorant prejudices, assumptions, and bigotry that goes with it.Until we are willng to address the root causes of these problems, and deal with them first and foremost, the most that can be accomplished is to push the corruption around like foreign matter under the skin, or cosmeticly disguise it -out of sight out of mind.Like 'drug' addiction, prohibition is also a dis-ease that infects weak-spirited people who strive to compensate by waving political, social, economic, religious power all over the place. That diseased part of the population is not being treated for the crimnal, morally decrepit, mentally imbalanced, and spiritually deficient people that they are underneath their social disguises. The whole idea of 'regulation' keeps the ball in their court, allows them to keep their false moral and ethical judgements, and the suffering continues. Anyone who thinks they have a right to market Creation is playing 'God' and denying anyone access to the gifts of God and Nature for any reason is criminal and sinful. If I can't get my herb, because I have to pay the price as stipulated by the 'regulation' -which serves to give the rich another string to puppetize the world, then I am just as effectively denied as when I have to get it from the black market.The only sane, logical answer is complete and unconconditional legalization of all herbs and plant material for personal use, otherwise the BS will just continue. As long as the powers that be are held up and supported as little demigods, and justified as the status quo, then there will be no change in the tune.Regulate the damn government. [ Post Comment ] Comment #52 posted by FoM on August 26, 2007 at 09:26:43 PT One More Comment I am not trying to be argumentative but the questions I have have been in my mind for a long time. I believe that we are our brother's keeper so I want to know how to help a brother or sister who needs help. [ Post Comment ] Comment #51 posted by FoM on August 26, 2007 at 09:21:06 PT Toker00 I realize what you are saying but look at the celebrities who could get whatever they want legal or illegal. [ Post Comment ] Comment #50 posted by Toker00 on August 26, 2007 at 09:20:07 PT For Example: Alcohol. Totally legal, totally dangerous. People are forced to choose this dangerous drug over SAFER but ILLEGAL alternatives. Some people can actually use Cocaine to rehabilitate themselves from and help to abstain from, ALCOHOL, the LEGAL BUT MUCH MORE DANGEROUS drug. If a person is truly intent on being drug free, they will be, and they are not, they will not be. FACT OF LIFE.Toke. [ Post Comment ] Comment #49 posted by FoM on August 26, 2007 at 09:18:22 PT Demonstrators Gather to March Against Drugs By Noelle McGee Sunday, August 26, 2007 DANVILLE – For several weeks, Betsy Morgenroth went back and forth over whether she would participate in Saturday's communitywide march against drugs.By the night before, the Hoopeston woman knew what she had to do. "I needed to be here for him," said Morgenroth, whose 18-year-old son, John Travis Morgenroth, died from an overdose of Xanax, Valium and morphine on June 13. "I'd like for something good to come out of his death. I haven't figured out yet what that's going to be. You just feel like you have to do something."Complete Article: http://www.news-gazette.com/news/local/2007/08/26/demonstrators_gather_to_march_against [ Post Comment ] Comment #48 posted by Toker00 on August 26, 2007 at 09:15:12 PT FoM I'm saying that there would be a safer, legal alternative to these dangerous illegal drugs. This would absolutely lower the seekers of illegal drugs, thus reducing the influence of the Black Market Dangerous Drugs. Who wouldn't choose the safer alternative, as I and millions others have done by choosing CANNABIS over ANY OTHER DRUG. Many don't like cannabis and don't have any other safer alternative than the Black Market Illegal Drugs. If people are offered a legal alternative to an illegal and dangerous one, most will be smart enough to make the right choice. But there will still be those who TOTALLY abandone themselves and CHOOSE to poison themselves and die.Toke. [ Post Comment ] Comment #47 posted by FoM on August 26, 2007 at 08:57:36 PT afterburner Pleas keep on limping along then. We can't take this much longer. [ Post Comment ] Comment #46 posted by afterburner on August 26, 2007 at 08:55:08 PT OT or not: Morning Meditation "My life is my message." Mohandas Gandhi"You work together or die alone." Kurdy, Jeremiah, "The Question"The Canadian election is in limbo, for now. The Conservatives are not gaining support as they hoped, so they are reluctant to call an election. The Liberal leader is still largely unknown to the general public. So we limp along. [ Post Comment ] Comment #45 posted by RevRayGreen on August 26, 2007 at 08:15:43 PT METH IS DEATH POT IS NOT The fines should never be equal. [ Post Comment ] Comment #44 posted by FoM on August 26, 2007 at 08:10:24 PT Toker00 Do you mean that Meth would never be legal then? [ Post Comment ] Comment #43 posted by goneposthole on August 26, 2007 at 08:06:16 PT Meth is a result of drugs prohibition just like methanol was distilled to sell was a result of alcohol prohibition.Prohibition doesn't work. Drug problems increase, not decrease.Legalize cannabis and meth problems would decrease substantially; they wouldn't go away, but the choice would be clear. Cannabis would trump all other choices, hands down. [ Post Comment ] Comment #42 posted by Toker00 on August 26, 2007 at 08:02:08 PT It wouldn't be called Meth, FoM. FoM, legal drugs would be reformulated into safer substances and products. Regulated for safety and purity. Dirty drugs kill. Even pharmaceutical drugs kill, but that's because they are not Natural Substances. Exsisting legal drugs could be made safer too, but it would drastically reduce their profit margin, therefore, they make us suffer the consequences for their Greed.Toke. [ Post Comment ] Comment #41 posted by FoM on August 26, 2007 at 07:56:02 PT One More Thought Who would be able to supply legal hard drugs like Meth to an adult? Meth fries a person fast. [ Post Comment ] Comment #40 posted by Toker00 on August 26, 2007 at 07:53:31 PT FoM LEGAL for ADULTS not children. Legalization would drastically remove the infrastructure of the black market for Drugs, lessening her chances of getting it ILLEGALLY. There's no way to stop anyone from getting black market drugs, right now, at any age. Legalization would remove the Profit from the Black Market for Drugs. The only ones seeking illegal drugs then would be someone intent on suicide anyway. They same ones who over dose now. We have a choice between self-control and self-abandonment. Serious Addictions are self-abandonment and need Hugs, not Bars, Rape, Spiritual Death, Physical Abuse, etc...Toke. [ Post Comment ] Comment #39 posted by goneposthole on August 26, 2007 at 07:50:28 PT As it is now... it is worse than the legalization scenario. Meth is a huge problem. It isn't going away. I visited Montana this summer to vacation some. Anti-meth campaigns in small eastern Montana towns were for hundreds of miles. Montana isn't Montana anymore. It was obscene.If cannabis were legalized, maybe the meth problem would subside.Meth is bad news. It is out of control.Alcohol is the same with the same results. Alcoholics cause massive problems with the legal system. It's legal. Do you sue the bar where it is served or Seagram's?If cannabis were legalized, I know that problems with alcohol would subside.Choose your pizon. [ Post Comment ] Comment #38 posted by FoM on August 26, 2007 at 07:35:45 PT goneposthole Who would be willing to be responsible and sell hard drugs to people if the law was changed. Let's say that a family has a child that is rebellious and she or he runs away from home. The child winds up somewhere and starts using Meth. Where should that child go to get more Meth legally? If her parents found out could they sue the person who was the one that is the legal supplier? [ Post Comment ] Comment #37 posted by goneposthole on August 26, 2007 at 07:22:50 PT What to do "The important point to get clear in our minds is that drugs will be with us legal or illegal, approved or disapproved. The best thing we can do, as society and government, is to come up with a framework that minimizes the harm done to individuals and society. My contention is that this is best done through legal toleration of drug use which will allow the government to implement legal safeguards and protocols. You can do more to protect your children from drugs when you know who is selling them, what is in them and what they do, that situation requires legal and open trading."More at:http://mwillett.org/Politics/dopehead1.htm [ Post Comment ] Comment #36 posted by Wayne on August 26, 2007 at 07:19:29 PT a word about cocaine and coca I agree that people really shouldn't be messing around with cocaine. I have tried it myself before, and did not like the results at all, and did not like the way it made my friends behave. I was wired beyond belief, was up all night until 8am, and every 5 minutes I thought my friends and I were going to start beating the crap out of each other. And it made my nose bleed the next day too.But yes, even at that, there is blatant hypocrisy in the scheduling system. Cocaine is a schedule II drug -- it has medical use as a local anesthetic. That's why users commonly rub it on their gums; when they start grinding their teeth, they can't feel it. And yet, cannabis is schedule I, go figure.I believe cannabis should be legalized, of course, for obvious reasons stated every day on here. 'Nuff said.But I believe pure coca should also be legalized, and used in energy drinks. My sister, who I would venture to say is probably not in favor of drug legalization, did drink coca tea in the mornings when she and her husband went on a mission trip to Peru. She said being up in the mountains does sap the energy right out of you, and having that little boost in the morning was very refreshing and sustaining, much more so than caffeine. And neither had any ill effects from it.I do think that coca and cannabis should both be legalized and regulated. If that were the case, I do believe you would see the number of cocaine users and addicts drop significantly. In extreme cases, if someone wanted cocaine, they could theoretically make it themselves out of legalized pure coca, and wouldn't have to buy it on the streets.This is certainly up for debate, of course, but I think it presents an interesting angle. I feel the same way about raw opium. I'm not sure if raw opium can kill you, but if it can, it's certainly very rare in comparison to processed heroin. But if raw opium were also legalized, I believe you would see the number of deaths and heroin addicts drop also.Here is my opinion: Cannabis, coca, opium, and raw tobacco are natural substances made by God, and can be trusted in my mind. Cocaine, heroin, and processed cigarettes are man made...I think we already know the trustworthiness factor there. [ Post Comment ] Comment #35 posted by FoM on August 26, 2007 at 05:44:38 PT Dankhank I remember that one. I wonder if she will get married while GWB is still in the White House? [ Post Comment ] Comment #34 posted by FoM on August 26, 2007 at 05:42:37 PT afterburner I hope that Canada gets back on a good track soon. How much longer until people can vote out your conservative Prime Minister? [ Post Comment ] Comment #33 posted by dankhank on August 26, 2007 at 04:01:37 PT man ... that story is 6+ years old ... sorry ... up too early this morn ... :-) [ Post Comment ] Comment #32 posted by Dankhank on August 26, 2007 at 04:00:25 PT Mornin' reading ... found this re: Jenna Bush...http://archive.salon.com/politics/feature/2001/03/23/jenna_bush/index.htmlfor what it's worth ... [ Post Comment ] Comment #31 posted by whig on August 26, 2007 at 00:59:28 PT BGreen Technically neither cocaine nor coca are even prohibited in this country. Cocaine is a schedule 2 drug which is used medicinally, and coca tea can even be ordered from Amazon.com. [ Post Comment ] Comment #30 posted by afterburner on August 26, 2007 at 00:01:01 PT UP IN SMOKE??? Is it or isn't it? The pot pendulum swings again http://www.thestar.com/sciencetech/Ideas/article/249611 Just as Canadians are embracing pot as never before, the government plans a new war on drugs. The move is fitting, given this country's ambivalent relationship with weed over the decades. August 25, 2007. Lynda Hurst, Feature Writer. [ Post Comment ] Comment #29 posted by BGreen on August 25, 2007 at 23:36:09 PT I don't know, whig I haven't used coca products, but I don't want anyone to think I'm in favor of the extracted alkaloid known as cocaine.I don't think a cocaine or meth addict would be satisfied by an herbal drink. I do think that people that have access to an effective and safe energy boosting drink, food or supplement that works better than caffeine will be less likely or inclined to search out a more powerful stimulant.There has to be a better way than continued police terrorism no matter what the substance, so I'm just looking for a possible solution.If coca is safe and effective in it's natural form, which it apparently is, it should be available for use just like all other herbs and plants.Let's wait and see how this all plays out down in South America. It will be a battle when they stand up against the US government, but it's about time somebody stood up to those bullies.The Reverend Bud Green [ Post Comment ] Comment #28 posted by whig on August 25, 2007 at 22:45:40 PT BGreen Here's how it seems to me, as someone who has never used cocaine or coca... I have used other things you know and I understand what addiction feels like. Could someone really substitute weak tea for powder?My experience of cannabis is that there is no need of concentration, it is as strong as you need it to be and can easily be stronger than you thought you needed, yet do no harm at any dose.Namaste. [ Post Comment ] Comment #27 posted by The GCW on August 25, 2007 at 19:55:53 PT 93 year old. 93-year-old free on bond after being charged with cocaine trafficking http://ap.cjonline.com/pstories/20070824/194402033.shtml [ Post Comment ] Comment #26 posted by whig on August 25, 2007 at 19:44:27 PT BGreen I meant camellia sinensis, tea. As a stimulant, would coca be a safer alternative or less safe? Whether you know or not, it's an interesting question. [ Post Comment ] Comment #25 posted by FoM on August 25, 2007 at 16:15:31 PT whig Good point. I shouldn't have used the word regulated because herbs should be checked for safety and purity. [ Post Comment ] Comment #24 posted by whig on August 25, 2007 at 16:09:00 PT FoM Man sometimes contaminates what God creates. If someone were growing herbs on toxic waste landfill and selling it, that wouldn't be okay. [ Post Comment ] Comment #23 posted by BGreen on August 25, 2007 at 15:39:53 PT Nothing will work for everything Addicts might be able to replace their drug with cannabis and young people may never try meth or cocaine if they had an effective natural alternative so they can keep up with their hyperactive schedules.No, whig, I don't know of any studies, I just know that even tourists have a coca drink when they're up in the Andes mountains to combat altitude sickness. I don't know if a spliff of equatorial sativa would do the same thing but I'd be willing to perform the experiment in the interest of science.The Reverend Bud Green [ Post Comment ] Comment #22 posted by FoM on August 25, 2007 at 15:35:39 PT whig Back in 94 when I quit prescription drugs I researched herbs to try to find something that would fill the hole that quitting a drug leaves. I took large doses of different herbs I tried and they helped me thru some really hard times so I believe that herbs shouldn't be regulated because they aren't made by man. [ Post Comment ] Comment #21 posted by whig on August 25, 2007 at 15:27:50 PT Herbs I agree with everyone who says that natural herbs ought not to be prohibited. There is a clear difference between what grows naturally and what is human-synthesized, and while the latter may be very helpful for some things and some people, natural herbs coevolved with us and work with us in ways that chemicals cannot. [ Post Comment ] Comment #20 posted by FoM on August 25, 2007 at 15:22:17 PT Just a Comment We are in a line of really bad storms that could come our way. I might lose power when it gets closer. I guess a funnel cloud touched down somewhere in Columbus so we are watching the Columbus news. I'm not worried because we have so many hills they break up before they get here. BGreen, How many Meth users would be satisified with coca? That drug has a bad place in my heart and when people say legalize you can't change the law if you can't make it work on the legal end and that's why until that is covered thoroughly I don't get it. I believe that cannabis is the herb that really needs the laws changed but that still sometimes seem way off in the future. [ Post Comment ] Comment #19 posted by thestales on August 25, 2007 at 15:18:47 PT Meth Why not just have the natrual Meth....Ephedra sinica plants. If people want to get strung out on Mormon tea let them.If they are brewing hazardous chemicals without a permit, Throw them in Jail.Also Adderal (ADHD medicince) is THE best Meth out there. Let people grow whatever plants they want and let the goverment regulate all the unnatural, processed, synthesized poision crap for the pharma industry. [ Post Comment ] Comment #18 posted by FoM on August 25, 2007 at 15:15:06 PT fight_4_freedom Have a wonderful and safe time! [ Post Comment ] Comment #17 posted by whig on August 25, 2007 at 15:13:05 PT BGreen Do you know of studies comparing the relative safety of coca vs. camellia? [ Post Comment ] Comment #16 posted by fight_4_freedom on August 25, 2007 at 14:57:46 PT: Off to the Reggae Fest Bob Marley's offspring Ziggy will be performing! I will most definitely be thinking of all you as I'm celebrating Rasta Style! [ Post Comment ] Comment #15 posted by BGreen on August 25, 2007 at 14:49:33 PT I'm not promoting anything except an end to prohibition, and FoM had a legitimate question that will have to be answered. I offered my opinion on a possible solution.I've seen a recent news story about how many South American countries want to remove coca from the world drug treaty list and start marketing all kinds of coca products. They know the benefits of the plant way more than I possibly would, so it appears as if those who know the most are the ones who are doing the promoting. They've seen the benefits of the coca plant versus the lies and hysteria from the prohibitionists, and the plant has won hands down.Cannabis may not be right for everybody so it's good to have other safe options available.The Reverend Bud Green [ Post Comment ] Comment #14 posted by whig on August 25, 2007 at 14:17:02 PT BGreen You may have a valid point but I'm not interested in promoting coca right now. I think we need to end cannabis prohibition first and regulate different things differently like I said. I don't object to you making and using coca tea if you like and I wouldn't prohibit it, but that's a different thing from promoting it.Plus there are a lot of other very interesting herbs I'm discovering that I could talk about, but I'm mainly focused on cannabis. [ Post Comment ] Comment #13 posted by BGreen on August 25, 2007 at 13:49:46 PT God gave us both cannabis and coca They both have their own unique qualities, and both are very safe replacements for many worse chemicals.The Reverend Bud Green [ Post Comment ] Comment #12 posted by BGreen on August 25, 2007 at 13:45:59 PT Coca is relatively harmless but beneficial With hundreds of years of safe use I see no reason whatsoever to discourage the reintroduction of coca-based foods and beverages.What do you base your negative impressions of coca on, whig?The Reverend Bud Green [ Post Comment ] Comment #11 posted by whig on August 25, 2007 at 13:29:32 PT BGreen I would rather encourage people who are hooked on hard drugs to switch to cannabis if they can. [ Post Comment ] Comment #10 posted by whig on August 25, 2007 at 13:27:41 PT BGreen I'm not interested in encouraging coca beverages. [ Post Comment ] Comment #9 posted by BGreen on August 25, 2007 at 13:25:08 PT Meth replacement Coca would be a great energy booster, since it has allowed South Americans to function at energy draining altitudes for centuries.Most people use cocaine or meth initially to get an energy boost and/or to feel good, then they're horribly addicted and never feel good.Allowing coca back into beverages such as energy drinks would give people the energy boost and overall good feeling they are looking for, but in a tremendously safer form.With cannabis and coca, you would prevent so many people from ever trying potent deadly drugs.For those who are addicts, a doctor not a cop should be involved, and the doctor could help keep them healthier by providing a safer stimulant or opiate.We also have to just admit that there are some people we will lose to their own stupidity, no matter how hard we try to destroy the lives of millions of others just to save these lost causes.If we would leave the millions alone and just help the lost causes, we might actually do some good.The Reverend Bud Green [ Post Comment ] Comment #8 posted by BGreen on August 25, 2007 at 12:54:26 PT True, whig I believe the Dutch model will prove valid in the US if the sale of cannabis is allowed.There will be a rise in the numbers of cannabis users, but that will level off. Meanwhile, the number of abusers of hard drugs (including "prescription" drugs) will diminish.We have to be able to deal with addicts pragmatically, even if it means carefully supplying their drugs just to keep them from stealing or prostituting for the money. It would allow addicts to still function without having to worry 24/7 where to find the drugs they need and where to get the money for those drugs.I saw a program about a Dutch church where heroin addicts came in for their "fix" then went off to live their lives like normal people. These people looked so different than we're used to seeing, but the numbers show that fewer and fewer Dutch are using heroin these days.Nobody should be terrorized, no matter how bad you think any drug or plant is.The Reverend Bud Green [ Post Comment ] Comment #7 posted by FoM on August 25, 2007 at 12:44:36 PT BGreen I never could figure out how meth could be regulated because people who get strung out on meth will need higher doses to have it keep working the way they want. I think if they loosened up on good old fashion diet pills people would ease away from meth. Meth can kill so who would be the responsible party that would sell meth to a person if it was legal? That's just one of the issues that I don't understand. [ Post Comment ] Comment #6 posted by whig on August 25, 2007 at 12:33:35 PT BGreen I think that's a good strategy. We may need to regulate different things differently. [ Post Comment ] Comment #5 posted by BGreen on August 25, 2007 at 12:30:34 PT The story just addressed things we talk about What's been done hasn't worked at all, the damage caused by prohibition is worse than all of the illegal substances combined, and it's time to acknowledge that we're not going to get different result by doing the same thing. Legalize and regulate might be the only answer, and cannabis is the strongest candidate to be the first to be legalized.There you go, in a nutshell. :)The Reverend Bud Green [ Post Comment ] Comment #4 posted by FoM on August 25, 2007 at 12:16:36 PT BGreen Thank you. I don't know what to say though. I haven't checked out drug policy issues for a long time so I don't know if any progress is being made. I hope so. [ Post Comment ] Comment #3 posted by BGreen on August 25, 2007 at 12:00:31 PT That's funny, FoM I was just going to mention a similar story to you from a magazine I get, Foreign Policy, by Ethan Nadelmann, with the title on the cover of the magazine of "Legalize It: Why it's time to just say no to prohibition."The story is only available to subscribers, but here is the snippet they have posted"http://www.foreignpolicy.com/story/cms.php?story_id=3932“The Global War on Drugs Can Be Won”No, it can’t. A “drugfree world,” which the United Nations describes as a realistic goal, is no more attainable than an “alcoholfree world”—and no one has talked about that with a straight face since the repeal of Prohibition in the United States in 1933. Yet futile rhetoric about winning a “war on drugs” persists, despite mountains of evidence documenting its moral and ideological bankruptcy. When the U.N. General Assembly Special Session on drugs convened in 1998, it committed to “eliminating or significantly reducing the illicit cultivation of the coca bush, the cannabis plant and the opium poppy by the year 2008” and to “achieving significant and measurable results in the field of demand reduction.” But today, global production and consumption of those drugs are roughly the same as they were a decade ago; meanwhile, many producers have become more efficient, and cocaine and heroin have become purer and cheaper.It’s always dangerous when rhetoric drives policy—and especially so when “war on drugs” rhetoric leads the public to accept collateral casualties that would never be permissible in civilian law enforcement, much less public health. Politicians still talk of eliminating drugs from the Earth as though their use is a plague on...I remember reagan, bush, et. al, saying we would eliminate cannabis by 1988, then 1989, then 1990, then we'll really get 'r done in '91, and yet nobody ever talks about the time frames guaranteed to us by these politicians which proved to be not only unrealistic, but also were such miserably inaccurate predictions that they call into question every thought, every law and every action these political hacks are also responsible for.The Reverend Bud Green [ Post Comment ] Comment #2 posted by FoM on August 25, 2007 at 11:30:59 PT The Lost War on Drugs http://www.statesman.com/insight/content/editorial/stories/insight/08/26/0826drugwar.html [ Post Comment ] Comment #1 posted by FoM on August 25, 2007 at 10:48:09 PT Asset Confiscation and Asset Forfeiture http://www.theconservativevoice.com/article/27495.html [ Post Comment ] Post Comment