cannabisnews.com: Forfeiture of Wife's Share of Home Is Excessive Forfeiture of Wife's Share of Home Is Excessive Posted by CN Staff on June 29, 2007 at 07:09:41 PT By Mark Hamblett, New York Law Journal Source: New York Law Journal Connecticut -- A woman who insisted that she did not know her husband was growing marijuana in the basement of the home they had shared since 1979 should not forfeit her full half interest in the home, a federal appellate court has ruled. The 2nd U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals on Wednesday vacated a decision ordering Kathleen M. von Hofe to forfeit her interest in the couple's $248,000 Branford, Conn. home. The circuit in von Hofe v. United States, 05-2969-cv., said that the forfeiture of her interest violated the Excessive Fines Clause of the Eighth Amendment to the U.S. Constitution.Saying that Ms. von Hofe was guilty of, at most, "turning a blind eye" to her husband's activities, the court remanded the case to the district court for a determination of how much the forfeiture should be reduced or whether it should be eliminated entirely. Since the court affirmed the forfeiture of her husband's interest, that would leave Ms. von Hofe and the government as co-owners. Judges Joseph McLaughlin and Richard Wesley, along with Vermont U.S. District Judge William Sessions, sitting by designation, decided the appeal. Judge Wesley wrote for the court. In December 2001, Branford police officers assisted by the Drug Enforcement Administration executed a search warrant at the home of Harold von Hofe and his wife. Inside, they found 65 marijuana plants and other items associated with marijuana cultivation and use. Both husband and wife entered an Alford plea, whereby a defendant may enter a plea that includes protestations of innocence while still consenting voluntarily to a prison sentence. Mr. von Hofe received a three-year suspended sentence and his wife a nine-month suspended sentence. The government then launched an in rem forfeiture action in the District of Connecticut, at which Ms. von Hofe offered an "innocent owner" defense under the Civil Asset Forfeiture Reform Act of 2000 (CAFRA). The marijuana plants were found in two, small compartments in one of four rooms in the basement. Ms. von Hofe said she was not involved in the marijuana cultivation and could not smell the plants over the incense her husband burned. As the family's principal breadwinner, someone who worked 70 hours per week as a nurse at the Yale-New Haven Hospital, Ms. von Hofe said she only pleaded guilty to misdemeanor marijuana possession because the police had threatened to press charges against her two sons if she did not. Mr. von Hofe, who said he grew the marijuana for his personal use, testified that he never discussed his crop with his wife and cultivated it only when she was away. The jury rejected the innocent owner defense and the district court went on to find that the forfeiture of Ms. von Hofe's interest did not violate the Excessive Fines Clause. At the circuit, Judge Wesley said the circuit determines excessiveness by considering "(1) the harshness, or gross proportionality, of the offense, giving due regard to (a) the offense committed and its relation to other criminal activity, (b) whether the claimant falls within the class of persons for whom the statute was designed, (c) the punishments available, and (d) the harm caused by the claimant's conduct; (2) the nexus between the property and the criminal offenses, including the deliberate nature of the use and the temporal and special extent of the use; and (3) the culpability of each claimant." The court had little trouble determining that Mr. von Hofe's forfeiture was constitutional. But as for Ms. von Hofe, where her half-share of the property "would amount to a $124,000 fine," Judge Wesley said the Eighth Amendment was violated. 'Turning a Blind Eye'"Kathleen von Hofe bears minimal blame for the criminal activity that occurred at 32 Medley Lane. The record is devoid of any evidence indicating her use of drugs or her involvement in any criminal activity whatsoever," Judge Wesley said. "We also have no evidence to suggest Mrs. von Hofe encouraged or promoted the offensive conduct occurring at 32 Medley Lane ... and although Mrs. Von Hofe may have known her husband smoked marijuana with his friends or family, we are bound by the district court's finding that she was not 'aware that either her sons or husband were selling or bartering marijuana in her home.'" Wesley said the court was not overlooking the fact that the jury concluded Ms. von Hofe was not an innocent owner, but he said "Mrs. von Hofe's culpability, falling at the low end of the scale, is best described as turning a blind eye to her husband's marijuana cultivation in their basement." Her "offensive conduct," he said, "boils down to her joint ownership of 32 Medley Lane and silence in the face of her husband's decision to grow marijuana in their basement almost 30 years into their marriage. And yet she is being punished as if she were distributing drugs, when the district court concluded as a matter of fact that she had no knowledge of any distribution or renumeration." Jonathan J. Einhorn of New Haven, who represented the van Hofeses, said the circuit "seems to be saying that, based on the record now, the government can't justify forfeiture at all -- but they also seem to be saying that a further development of the record might reveal something else." Assistant U.S. Attorneys David Sullivan and Sandra Glover represented the government. A spokesperson for U.S. Attorney Kevin J. O'Connor said Thursday that prosecutors are reviewing the decision and weighing their options. But Einhorn said he believes the government will appeal. "My research on this case, and there are not a lot of forfeiture cases (on point) around the country, and this one is very detailed and very well written, and the Justice Department may be worried that this case will set the standard for forfeitures around the country and consider appealing," he said. Complete Title: Forfeiture of Wife's Share of Home Over Husband's Marijuana Is Found ExcessiveSource: New York Law Journal (NY)Author: Mark Hamblett, New York Law JournalPublished: June 29, 2007Copyright: 2007 ALM Properties, Inc.Website: http://www.nylj.com/Contact: http://tinyurl.com/7u9slCannabisNews Justices Archiveshttp://cannabisnews.com/news/list/justice.shtml Home Comment Email Register Recent Comments Help Comment #65 posted by FoM on June 30, 2007 at 19:41:31 PT Off Topic To Be Young and Liberal in America (3 Letters) http://www.nytimes.com/2007/07/01/opinion/l01poll.html [ Post Comment ] Comment #64 posted by FoM on June 30, 2007 at 15:44:29 PT Dankhank That is good to know. [ Post Comment ] Comment #63 posted by Dankhank on June 30, 2007 at 15:41:25 PT China till they have a way to walk over here we're probably OK.ships is sitting ducks for us ... [ Post Comment ] Comment #62 posted by FoM on June 30, 2007 at 14:18:26 PT Sam If China with their army got really angry with us I would worry. [ Post Comment ] Comment #61 posted by FoM on June 30, 2007 at 13:58:58 PT Sam I know. I know someone running for President wants to cap taxes when a person retires. That's the only way people will be able to stay in their home. Our taxes and insurance runs about $400 a month. Living in a rural area helps because they don't go overboard with the taxes and that matters to us. That's for 3 houses a big barn (80 by 132 feet ), 2 car garage and 25 acres. I read where people are leaving the cities in huge numbers. I understand why. [ Post Comment ] Comment #60 posted by museman on June 30, 2007 at 13:24:51 PT oops "Those who place their trust in the highest aspects of man and YWWH, should be able to place the same trust in each other, regardless of situation or circumstance."Sorry big time, that would be Y H W H! [ Post Comment ] Comment #59 posted by museman on June 30, 2007 at 13:20:04 PT whig - perspective In a way that is barely understood or recognized, I had my own kind of 'privilege.' That was the lack of a biological father in my life - one I never met. Therefore I had no intense father-son 'passing of the torch' to deal with, (which as a father I have discovered between me and my own sons) and that left me freer for other choices and options. I chose to seek out the Spirit that found me crying alone in the woods, and comforted me with HIS presence. That privilege however, I never thought to compare, or weigh in some kind of scale, against other estimations of my fellow humans, I merely accepted it gratefully and humbly. There was a time in my youth where I erroneously thought myself 'better' because of that privilege, but talking to YHWH has a way of disallowing some personal choices of behavior. If I can get over that...well, I can't see coddling those who won't get over themsleves.There is a difference between discernment, and judgement. One is quite at liberty to observe causes and effects without entering into personal condemnations. Some may see it as a 'fine line' to walk sometimes, and in the current fog that exists around most communication, misunderstanding is to be expected.As a poet and songwriter, I often have to consider my words very carefully, because though it hasn't happened in any big-time, mainstream way, I am aware of the potential to effect thought and action through powerful words and music. (I am currently in disagreement with a musician friend of mine about the third verse in my newly posted old song along these same lines) As some here have noticed I can get very 'passionate' with my use of words and what I percieve to be true, and I have to admit that I deliberately represent extreme polarities of perspective sometimes to illustrate my point.I make a supreme attempt to not point the finger at 'persons'. In the case of the monkey, I have not been able to resist, but then I'm not really sure if there is a person under all that crap.It is ideologies, systems of values and belief, institutions, and their actual witnessed error that I condemn - and my witness is just one -, and I believe that I not only have the right, but the responsibility to the Only Father I ever had; YHWH, to do just that. It is HIS Truth, HIS creation, HIS terms, HIS 'laws.'I answer only to YHWH, and to YSHWH. I have found great freedom in that. I realize that 'words are cheap,' and many a snake-oil salesman and con-man knows this all too well. Yet sometime we have to trust each other's hearts and that what they claim is true, and take the chance that our trust will be betrayed, or else we just create another kind of beaurocracy in the 'checks and balances' of compromise without ever reaching true solidarity or consensus. That leaves us open for the real snakes in the grass to come in with their clever tongues and glib behavior. It's what we currently have posing as a 'representative' government.Those who place their trust in the highest aspects of man and YWWH, should be able to place the same trust in each other, regardless of situation or circumstance.Shalom Shabat [ Post Comment ] Comment #58 posted by Sam Adams on June 30, 2007 at 13:14:59 PT one more thing Look at what our system has given us. The cost of living, of everything, has shot up so high. Consider this: we have a military with 1.4 million active-duty personnel. From what I read, it is breaking our military to provide a force of merely 150,000 in Iraq. And of the 150,000, only like 1 in 7 are actually combat troops! The rest are support troops.Now, after WWII, we were able occupy and pacify Germany - with 1 million troops! Plus what Russia and England provided.So now we're paying more than ever to the military, and yet we can barely maintain less than 50,000 combat troops in the field????? What's going to happen when China's got an army of 10 million men?? What's going to happen when we have no manufacturing and anything any more, including food, within our borders? It has become so expensive to live in the US, we can barely perform the basic functions of a large nation. What's the fallback plan going to be when our economy crashes and we have to cut the military to 1/10 its size? Nuke everybody? Great job, Cheney.And to think that all the old people voted for Bush/Cheney because they'll keep us safe - they're tougher than those soft Democrats! What a lie. What a huge lie. When the govt. is flagrantly incompetent, we're not safe at all. Not safe militarily, environmentally, fiscally. [ Post Comment ] Comment #57 posted by Sam Adams on June 30, 2007 at 13:07:57 PT interest rates FOM it's interesting that you mention housing. It's not just Bush that lowered interested rates, it's the whole system. the low interest rates mean that the Fed is just printing money galore.They want us to believe that there's been virtually no inflation in 20 years. But the price of housing here doubled in five years! So did property taxes. So did the price of gas, fuel, utilities. So no inflation is HUGE lie, we have been in a period of RUNAWAY inflation for the last 10 years. Where I live, if you buy a house for your family and then retire and your income is fixed, you'll be forced to move from your house within 30 years (because of rising property taxes). 30 years! Look what they've done to our country. You cannot earn good money for a while, and then buy a big house for your family and children to use, and rest assured that they will be provided for.The way the system is set up, each successive generation must claw and scratch and work their butts off to continue paying taxes. It's like we're all just leasing what we have from the govt. Skyrocketing property taxes will take your house back again within 1 generation. Did you know there was virtually no inflation from like 1600 to 1940? Currency was based on gold. Gold was gold. At any time, you could turn your US dollars in gold. FDR and Nixon ruined that. Our currency is now worthless. The government and banking industry stole our gold right out from under us! For hundreds of years, rich families could build a huge estate and leave it for future generations of their families, for hundreds of years! That is not possible in the US. We have effectively exchanged a monarchy and aristocracy for all-powerful political class that devours everything else.What's the result? Our day is coming. South America, Russia, Asia, they've all seen their currencies collapse and land with a big thud. People think they're rich nowadays, just wait till the big crash comes. Your fortune will be worthless. [ Post Comment ] Comment #56 posted by whig on June 30, 2007 at 12:09:06 PT Cannabis It is like this: if you work for a corporation, you cannot mention cannabis. If you represent corporations, you cannot mention cannabis. [ Post Comment ] Comment #55 posted by whig on June 30, 2007 at 12:06:29 PT society is wrong It is not my parents who are wrong but they are doing at all times what they think is best for their children, and this is what parents do.If my father is a Republican it is because that is what he must be to support and protect his family.He did not vote for George Bush in 2004. He says he voted against Al Gore in 2000 and I understand that because Bill Clinton was not very honest.But he is careful and not radical, and why should he be radical and bring trouble on the family?He does not condemn me for what I do. [ Post Comment ] Comment #54 posted by whig on June 30, 2007 at 12:00:21 PT Life is complex It would be nice if we could just change people's minds but nobody exists in a vacuum, everyone is part of a circle of other people, all of whom communicate their consciousness and any member of which can be said to be a part of that group consciousness. [ Post Comment ] Comment #53 posted by whig on June 30, 2007 at 11:56:19 PT museman Here's the thing, though. I did manage to learn a lot of things. So how do I criticize my parents for putting me through something unpleasant if it made me better able to defend myself as an adult?I don't think I can judge them. My parents have always been good, even though sometimes I still think they are wrong. [ Post Comment ] Comment #52 posted by whig on June 30, 2007 at 11:53:52 PT museman John Edwards is right about one thing, there are two Americas. One for the privileged and one for the underclass.He is a privileged man, and in some ways so am I and that is why I understand what he is talking about. I was born in a family that had some money and could afford to send me to private school. I left private school and went to public school by my own choice.I detested the private school. It was, from nursery school through eighth grade, all boys. I was the smallest boy through fifth grade.Don't think it's so good to be privileged, it wasn't fun.It is nice to have good things, but it does not make people happy. I see more depressed wealthy people than you could imagine. They torture themselves, refusing cannabis when they get cancer so they can suffer more. They don't want cannabis prohibition ended because that would mean it's okay not to suffer and they think they deserve to suffer, which they do, because they are causing suffering.See the problem? [ Post Comment ] Comment #51 posted by FoM on June 30, 2007 at 11:51:06 PT museman I know that when Bush loosened loaning money it was an accident waiting to happen. I can't believe that people believe that their homes were escalating like we saw happening. I feel really sorry for people who trusted too much and went in over their head. It's not going to be pretty. [ Post Comment ] Comment #50 posted by museman on June 30, 2007 at 11:44:44 PT who owns what "....because you could grow pot there, and of course, any piece of land as well, so I'm sure the courts would be cool with the government seizing the whole damn country,..."Don't look now, but there's BLM over there claiming 'imminent domain.' Just try exercising your 'right to public lands' without paying twice; once with your taxes and time, and next with the 'fee.' And refusal to sign their permits, or pay their fees is a crime punishable by a much larger fine, and possible jail time.Try 'owning' land without going into debt (unless of course you happen to be one of the 'beautiful people'). And now that the bankruptcy laws have been changed, and debt is now a punishable crime (funny how the constitution gets overlooked when they do this stuff) there is going to be 'debtors prisons' like England in the 1700's.And privacy? Didn't monkeybush do a hell of a job on that one with the patriot act? - by the way as far as I know all the current candidates support that piece of crap.And 'one who smokes 'pot' is a terrorist, (because Osama has a vested interest in the Mexican Mafia?)...The setup came long before this, else they would never have goten away with the incredible illusion of 'rightness' 'goodness' 'justice' and 'freedom' that they labeled the paint used to cover the truth.Prisons here, prisons there, everywhere a prison. Pretty soon they won't need immigrants to do the dirty work, there'll be enough poor and ripped off Americans behind bars to feed the slave quota - won't the big corporafarms just love that? [ Post Comment ] Comment #49 posted by FoM on June 30, 2007 at 09:38:13 PT Hope I saw a picture and I see how people have gone over. We have a cliff up the road a little. A neighbor girl went picking flowers and she slipped and went over. It was a good drop like 50 or more feet to rocks below. One of the people that had a horse at my barn heard her yelling one night on her way home or she would have died if she hadn't heard her cries for help. They life flighted her to a big hospital in Columbus and she is fine now. The top of the rock is rounded down and moss covered. Very dangerous. Maybe we'll just stay on the lake where it's safe and look at all the big yachts. Amazing stuff on this lake. It's unlimited horse power so the big boats come. [ Post Comment ] Comment #48 posted by Hope on June 30, 2007 at 09:29:15 PT Be careful. Sounds like it could be dangerous. [ Post Comment ] Comment #47 posted by FoM on June 30, 2007 at 07:58:14 PT Hope You're welcome. We are working on my husband's semi too. We are getting our boat out of the barn today I think. We finally bought a license for it and hope to get it in the water over the holidays. There is a big cave somewhere around the lake and I want to find it. Someone slipped and went over the edge and fell 75 feet but survived. I want to see where this accident happened. It will be fun but I won't go near the edge to see the water fall. [ Post Comment ] Comment #46 posted by Hope on June 30, 2007 at 07:52:24 PT FoM, Thanks Bookmarked it. [ Post Comment ] Comment #45 posted by FoM on June 30, 2007 at 07:47:46 PT Hope This is the place where we get out parts. They have been reasonable and their service is very good. I thought you might want to check it out. It's called Yesterday's Tractors.http://www.ytmag.com/ [ Post Comment ] Comment #44 posted by Hope on June 30, 2007 at 07:32:59 PT Also...about the tractor A search of the net will reveal all sorts of people who have antique and old tractor parts for sale.We had to have a part especially made for our old tractor last year, since it was no longer available to them. The parts place actually made the thing. [ Post Comment ] Comment #43 posted by FoM on June 30, 2007 at 07:14:35 PT Hope I will check it out. I love that old tractor just because it has been good to us most of the time over the years. It's just this one part that we can't find. [ Post Comment ] Comment #42 posted by Hope on June 30, 2007 at 07:01:43 PT Parts for old tractors... Cruise E-Bay. You can buy a tractor a piece at a time off E-Bay. Lol!Lots and lots of tractor parts from all over the world the last time I checked. [ Post Comment ] Comment #41 posted by FoM on June 30, 2007 at 06:43:55 PT Hope It's a beautiful day here and maybe he will get it done soon. I really wish our old tractor wasn't so old I guess. We can't find a part we need because it is a 1939 model. If we can't get it fix it will go to the Great Tractor Spirit in the Sky. I will feel bad about that but if it keeps costing us money what choice do we have? I hate to have to mow all the land with our riding mower but we've done it before and we'll do it again. [ Post Comment ] Comment #40 posted by Hope on June 30, 2007 at 06:19:59 PT Mollasses on a stick or lots of little sticks is what it amounted to, really. [ Post Comment ] Comment #39 posted by Hope on June 30, 2007 at 06:18:08 PT Well dang... I hope he gets it cut and baled. Even over mature grass hay has got to be better than the rice straw we bought last winter. We had to pour mollasses over it to get anything to eat it and you could see they didn't think it was great...at all. They stayed healthy and plump though. [ Post Comment ] Comment #38 posted by FoM on June 30, 2007 at 05:59:46 PT Hope Thank you. It looks like the air currents are picking up the water from the ocean and just dropping it on Texas. The man who is suppose to cut the fields hasn't gotten around to it yet. We still don't have our old tractor fixed and I will be happy when it is cut. I hope he gets it cut and baled this weekend. They will be working on the old tractor this weekend I think and if he doesn't get to baling it we will just cut it down. Our intentions were good but it's up to the person to find the time to do it and he hasn't so far. It has passed it's peak. [ Post Comment ] Comment #37 posted by FoM on June 30, 2007 at 05:52:33 PT Sinsemilla Jones A closet in every house! Too much. Isn't it crazy? [ Post Comment ] Comment #36 posted by Hope on June 30, 2007 at 05:32:42 PT Comment 31 It's rained all spring and there are strings of storms, one right after another for days on end. We've lost electricity twice, for as much as twelve hours, recently because of storms. The blackest, smokiest looking clouds I've ever noticed have been rolling in. I kept looking at them to try and figure if something was on fire somewhere adding to the smokey effect. It was so dark the other afternoon and no electricity that I had to light oil lamps and candles for us to see to get around. The yard grass is growing faster than we can keep it mowed. Really. Hay people are doing great except probably lots is ruined because of the fairly incessant rain. By the way, in case I didn't mention it, I'm so glad you guys are baling your meadows. If people can manage to get it baled without it raining on it... we are going to have plenty of hay this winter.Some places are flooding of course. We've had some alarming wind storms...but no tornadoes or heavy damage around here. Some places have had killer storms and floods of course. [ Post Comment ] Comment #35 posted by mayan on June 30, 2007 at 03:56:47 PT Alarming FDA ANNOUNCES PLAN TO ELIMINATE VITAMIN COMPANIES: http://www.newswithviews.com/Richards/byron36.htm [ Post Comment ] Comment #34 posted by Sinsemilla Jones on June 30, 2007 at 03:20:52 PT Maybe they'll just start seizing rooms. After all, why should the living room pay for what the basement did?Eventually, the feds could own a closet in every house.Actually, any house should be considered drug paraphernalia already, because you could grow pot there, and of course, any piece of land as well, so I'm sure the courts would be cool with the government seizing the whole damn country, and if it keeps one kid from trying dope, it'll be worth it, by god.Better yet, why doesn't the government just go ahead and kill everybody, then no one would ever die from drugs again. [ Post Comment ] Comment #33 posted by FoM on June 29, 2007 at 21:09:20 PT Dankhank Thank! I saw him on Larry King earlier and it was very good. He has a good heart. [ Post Comment ] Comment #32 posted by Dankhank on June 29, 2007 at 21:02:27 PT M Moore on larry King, now .... [ Post Comment ] Comment #31 posted by FoM on June 29, 2007 at 20:46:34 PT Hope You're welcome. Have you had any problems with the rain that has been happening in Texas? It looks bad on tv. [ Post Comment ] Comment #30 posted by Hope on June 29, 2007 at 20:42:42 PT Thanks, FoM I appreciate it. [ Post Comment ] Comment #29 posted by FoM on June 29, 2007 at 20:39:36 PT Hope I always know what you mean because I know how you feel. Take care of your headache. I had a sinus headache last night that kept me up until after 4. I can feel your pain on this one for sure. [ Post Comment ] Comment #28 posted by Hope on June 29, 2007 at 20:33:15 PT Oh well... I have a sinus headache and I can't seem to get it all correct...I'll just have to leave this evening with "You know what I mean."Sorry.Sam was right. Commenters are making some really good comments. This article is one of those particular things that make me furious at what our government is doing to people in the name of the drug war.It's so obvious that the government is out of control. It's bad. I can't imagine how much worse it will have to get before they are forced to be the right kind of government, by and for a free and strong people. [ Post Comment ] Comment #27 posted by whig on June 29, 2007 at 20:27:34 PT mayan You're right, good catch. [ Post Comment ] Comment #26 posted by FoM on June 29, 2007 at 20:19:25 PT Cannabis News Gone Wild! Too much Sam! Thanks for the laugh! [ Post Comment ] Comment #25 posted by Hope on June 29, 2007 at 20:17:52 PT Excuse me.... I believe I must have been in too much of a rush...and said that last comment I made, wrong."There is no way that taking people's homes for growing pot...or anything...is just wrong. Absolutely wrong and hideously unjust." should have read, "There is no way that taking peoples' homes for gowing pot...or anything, is anything but just wrong. Absolutely wrong and hideously unjust."Trying to say something important to me, on the run, and distracted, can come out wrong. Sorry. [ Post Comment ] Comment #24 posted by Hope on June 29, 2007 at 19:06:23 PT Unjust Laws Unjust laws. There is no way that taking people's homes for growing pot...or anything...is just wrong. Absolutely wrong and hideously unjust.Why can't everyone see that? For the sake of all mankind...why in the world can't they see how cruel and unjust they are to do this to people and to allow it to be done and not say a word?It's wrong and only some sort of very deluded deviant would not be able to see that it is wrong. [ Post Comment ] Comment #23 posted by mayan on June 29, 2007 at 17:46:19 PT Forfeiture It's time for the terrorists in the federal gov't to forfeit the money and liberties they illegaly stole from us!On an unrelated note, what a coincidence! One day in office and Gordon Brown can now get his draconian anti-terror laws passed!Brown sets out plan for tough new terror laws (June 3rd): http://observer.guardian.co.uk/politics/story/0,,2094352,00.htmlBut it's likely just more Booga-Booga... British MI5 Had Hand In Previous Car Bombings: http://prisonplanet.com/articles/june2007/290607carbombings.htmLondon Bomb--What a Crock of Crap!! http://noquarter.typepad.com/my_weblog/2007/06/london-bomb--wh.htmlTHE WAY OUT IS THE WAY IN...Vancouver Courier: Vancouver 9/11 Truth Conference gets Front Page Coverage: http://911blogger.com/node/9692Dr. Robert Bowman's Patriot Tour Stops in Toledo,Ohio - July 10 - University of Toledo: http://www.v911t.org/BowmanPatriot.phpThe 9/11 Solution - The Big Clue Everybody Missed: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=04vWNqhHTfQ&mode=related&search=9/11 WAS AN INSIDE JOB - OUR NATION IS IN PERIL: http://www.911sharethetruth.com/ [ Post Comment ] Comment #22 posted by OverwhelmSam on June 29, 2007 at 16:24:27 PT Cannabis News Gone Wild! Gee, I can't remember when I've seen cannabis News so lit up. LOLHurry and send in now for your copy of Cannabis News Gone Wild! Never before seen hot posts from all over the globe, check out the preceding previews. only $19.95! Don't miss out! Order Now! Operators are waiting! Please have your credit card ready and call.... [ Post Comment ] Comment #21 posted by whig on June 29, 2007 at 16:18:27 PT RevRayGreen What I said applies to Mitt Romney: This is how we put down the monsters.We shine the spotlight on them, and make sure the whole world sees.Another one bites the dust http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hMenB9Ywh2QAre we having fun yet? [ Post Comment ] Comment #20 posted by RevRayGreen on June 29, 2007 at 16:12:16 PT Mitt Romney is done (CNN) — Under fire from a leading animal rights group, former Massachusetts Gov. Mitt Romney defended the family dog’s mode of transportation to a 1983 summer vacation.People for the Ethical Treatment of Animals (PETA) criticized the Republican presidential hopeful after The Boston Globe reported that Romney transported his dog in a rooftop carrier when the family drove from Boston to Ontario.“If you wouldn’t strap your child to the roof of your car, you have no business doing that to the family dog,” Ingrid Newkirk, president of PETA said in a statement. “I don’t know who would find that acceptable.”The article noted that Romney had built a wind shield carrier to make the ride more comfortable for the family’s Irish Setter.But on the campaign trail in Pennsylvania Thursday, Romney defended his chosen mode of transportation for the family dog. [ Post Comment ] Comment #19 posted by The GCW on June 29, 2007 at 16:11:14 PT Freedom 2007 http://www.boulderweekly.com/coverstory.htmlFreedom 2007 [ Post Comment ] Comment #18 posted by goneposthole on June 29, 2007 at 15:59:33 PT the government the governmentthe governmentthe governmentthe governmentthe governmentthe governmentthe government...is nuts.George Bush sits in the White House and conducts a criminal enterprise on a continual basis. On January 20, 2009, the White House will be forfeited back to the people.When Calvin Coolidge was in the White House, 4000 well-wishers were there at the White House and on the White House lawn to wish him well.Such was the love for the President and the presidency.Now, nobody is there to wish George Bush well. They show up everyday wishing he would go home to Paraguay.What we, the people, need is a War Enforcement Administration.EnoughSmoke cannabis and kick George back to Texas.Leave Mr. von Hofe alone. He has done nothing wrong. [ Post Comment ] Comment #17 posted by museman on June 29, 2007 at 13:58:32 PT sam Wrong is wrong, and not wrong is right. The 'dominant culture' has 'brainwashed,' and created great distractions to overload our senses with BS so that the simple truth appears 'stupid' and 'uncool' in a youthful prespective, and superstitious and fearful adults -having been subjected to it all of their lives- reject the truth either with violent reaction, or careless apathy.But that is just the masses -as they are often collectively manifested like some kind of mob-mentality, or lemming-like blind followers. Within the masses are the people, and individuals who gather with other individuals of like mind to accomplish great things before the Most High (meaning that YHWH's esteem of mans deeds is of true value, while mans esteem of his own works is questionable). A handful of resolved people can turn the masses quite easily. And that resolve can be positive, uplifting, empowering, and just as effective as, no doubt more effective than coercion and force.My experience with our glorious illusion of a society and government is similar to yours, and so many others. How far our voice will go towards having an effect on the healing of our very sick world remains to be seen, but I have to admit and serve the belief that it is having an effect, or there would be no purpose for me, I don't go in for lost causes.Make no mistake, I am a warrior of the old school, and have chosen not to bear arms, but my anger at the crimes being committed against us, the earth, and many, many peoples by our own government does make me remember my original oath to protect the people and the constitution against enemies, both foreign AND DOMESTIC- and they know who they are. So do a lot of us. [ Post Comment ] Comment #16 posted by museman on June 29, 2007 at 13:25:41 PT whig#9 Very well said. [ Post Comment ] Comment #15 posted by Sam Adams on June 29, 2007 at 13:19:04 PT all the kings' horses..... One great thing is that the cannabis plant cannot be defeated, nor can basic human nature. As long as the two can be joined, they'll always be people like us. (No, I don't think the agriculture industry will ever allow the mutant Fusarium virus to be released)Why do you think the NM Dept. of Health allowed patients to grow their own? Obviously there are some compassionate people there who completely saw through the evil LEO's bullsh**. Gee, these men are obnoxious, disrespectful jerks who won't even talk to us! There isn't enough brainwashing to cover everything. I stilll belive the basic human way is compassion. It can always shine through, but the dark side of humanity can sure make it difficult for long periods of time.btw, have I mentioned the PBS show "Secrets of the Inquisition"? It's awesome, check it out. [ Post Comment ] Comment #14 posted by MikeEEEEE on June 29, 2007 at 13:06:36 PT whig I believe the great people who created this experiment called the UNITED States; besides devising checks and balances for the guys they knew we couldn't trust, they gave us a hint. It looks us right in the face sometimes. Being UNITED is the only way to effect change.In the same way the media gives us the BS about how they hate our freedom; the media hates the Internet because they can't control it. I guess we could say the corporate media hates our freedoms (the Internet). The media spreads fear (propaganda) to keep the masses divided and dumb. Fear creates aggression, and nobody acts smart with anger/aggression in their heart. I laugh sometimes at some of the crap they pull off, but at times, as a collective, it's sad. [ Post Comment ] Comment #13 posted by Sam Adams on June 29, 2007 at 12:55:10 PT Whig You're right, of course many of us ARE outraged and fighting the tyranny. In fact, I think if you sat down random Americans one at a time, explained this case, and asked if it was wrong for the government to take people's homes and money because of marijuana, more than 50% would be against it. But therein lies the problem. Apathy is one word for it. Brainwashing is another. The truth is that most people that I know spend all of their time worrying about getting a bigger house, or how quickly they can renovate their kitchen, or putting in home theater, or what DVDs to watch tonight. Can we afford a better brand of car? The neighbors all have Audis and BMWs. Your wife wants you to switch to a job where you work 70 hours per week so you can afford to move to the town with the BEST schools.There is no awareness of our huge prison state. No awareness of the salaries of policeman. No sensation of eroding civil rights. No reading of the newspaper, ever. No reading of a magazine or website with more in-depth analysis of issues.I'm afraid that after viewing 20,000 commercials during childhood, what used to be called "free-will" is permanently damaged. I think there's almost no ability to think for yourself anymore.Fear of getting arrested and jailed for SOMETHING, anything, is now part of an American's life. Everyone under 40 pretty much grew up in the anti-alcohol police state, spending 4 or 5 years getting chased and attacked by police all the time. Hell, anytime you're having fun, it's probably illegal, that is the American Way.I spent high school running into the woods with 2 squad cars sweeping spotlights throught the trees trying to catch us - for enjoying a few beers with our friends. I saw high school girls thrown against walls, hand-cuffed, and taken to jail for having a party at their house. Compare this to Europeans, who's introduction to alcohol is at the family dinner table at age 12. When I was a freshman in high school, the seniors had open campus. They could leave whenever they wanted. They typically had keg parties at a nearby lake on warm June afternoons. These were the people - the generation - that drove our high-tech economy for 20 years!By the time I was a senior in high school, you could only be present in the halls between bells. During class, anyone found outside a classroom (without proper paperwork) was subject to punishment. You could not come down to the 1st floor without a pass. There were uniformed guards posted at the entrances to the parking lots. Now, was that preparation to go out and have a great career? Or was that preparation to serve the corporate/elite for the rest of your life, for their maximum profit?It's just fascinating to me, my generation grew up studying World War II, yet we were programmed NOT to notice that our very school was being turned into a prison camp! This is doublethink, this is our culture, this is the American Way. [ Post Comment ] Comment #12 posted by whig on June 29, 2007 at 12:43:17 PT Pipes of Peace lyrics I light a candle to our love In love our problems disapper But all in all we soon discover That one and one is all we long to hear Allround the world Little children being born to the world Got to give them all we can til the war is won Then will the work be doneHelp them to learn (help them to learn) Songs of joy instead of burn, baby, burn(burn, baby burn) Let us show them how to play the pipes of peace Play the pipes of peaceHelp me to learnSongs of joy instead of burn, baby, burn Wont you show me to play(how to play) the pipes of peace(pipes of Peace) Play the pipes of peaceWhat do you say? (what do you say) Will the human race be run in a day? (in a day) Or will someone save this planet were playing on? Is it the only one? (what are we going to do? )Help them to see (help them to see) That the people here are like you and me (you and me) Let us show them how to play(how to play)the pipes of Peace(pipesofpeace) Play the pipes of peace Ooh___________________ I light a candle to our love In love our problems disapper But all in all we soon discover That one and one is all we long to hearAllround the world Little children being born to the world Got to give them all we can til the war is won Then will the work be doneHelp them to learn (help them to learn) Songs of joy instead of burn, baby, burn(burn, baby burn) Let us show them how to play the pipes of peace Play the pipes of peaceHelp me to learnSongs of joy instead of burn, baby, burn Wont you show me to play(how to play) the pipes of peace(pipes of Peace) Play the pipes of peaceWhat do you say? (what do you say) Will the human race be run in a day? (in a day) Or will someone save this planet were playing on? Is it the only one? (what are we going to do? )Help them to see (help them to see) That the people here are like you and me (you and me) Let us show them how to play(how to play)the pipes of Peace(pipesofpeace) Play the pipes of peace Ooh___________________ I light a candle to our love In love our problems disapper But all in all we soon discover That one and one is all we long to hear [ Post Comment ] Comment #11 posted by whig on June 29, 2007 at 12:41:10 PT Pipes of Peace - Paul McCartney http://video.yahoo.com/video/play?vid=18475&fr= [ Post Comment ] Comment #10 posted by whig on June 29, 2007 at 12:38:36 PT Peaceful Revolution We do not need to be violent, we have the power to change the world. [ Post Comment ] Comment #9 posted by whig on June 29, 2007 at 12:36:26 PT Sam Adams We're trying to build a popular uprising against it. We're just doing it electronically instead of in the streets. We know what has happened throughout history and we are not ignorant of how popular movements get subverted and put down.We speak the truth and our experiences to one another, and that is enough.In the halls of Congress, they are listening. They are afraid. Fear has been commanding them for years, those who were not commanded purely by their own avarice and greed, but even those who go into the real world of rough and tumble politics learn quickly they are not invulnerable and they have families too.So we have to help them see us as their salvation, which we are. And we are saying they must reject the evil they clearly perceive, to expunge it from themselves, to confess their own weaknesses and we accept that everyone has done wrong, and everyone is forgiven to make it right.And if we learn this we do not do wrong, because we must correct it when we do, and when we make a mistake we learn from it. [ Post Comment ] Comment #8 posted by Sam Adams on June 29, 2007 at 12:22:57 PT They always come after your family Look up War 101 - the family is always the target when you make war. And the War on Drugs is staffed with cowards and bullies. Yeah, police are real heroes - they always make sure they have 10 to 1 numbers before they start a fight.But seriously, look at history. Governments always go after the wife and kids. That is the best way to control a man, and total control is what they seek. No better way to break a man! Tried and true. Often, when the pigs can't legally attack your house, when a guy won't open his door and they don't have a warrant, they'll simply yell that they'll arrest his wife and kids as well (see above article) if he doesn't open the door willingly. Or shoot the dog. Shooting the dog is another popular police technique. We all know that many inherently cruel men become police.Of course, if you're black, they'll throw the wife in jail anyway, because the media won't come down on them, and usually black people don't have money for lawyers like this family did (that and their plum cherry of a house surely kept them out of jail).As usual, I'm filled with disgust when reading an account like this. The problem is, I don't know which is worse - the evil government, or the fact that this stuff happens every day and there is no popular uprising or outrage against it. [ Post Comment ] Comment #7 posted by whig on June 29, 2007 at 10:36:45 PT Museman I'm glad to see you using Youtube.This is how we put down the monsters.We shine the spotlight on them, and make sure the whole world sees.It used to be that nobody could hear you when you had a complaint against the government, your petition for redress of grievances was ignored by those who had an interest in not responding to you.Now it is not up to them, we receive and transmit. [ Post Comment ] Comment #6 posted by MikeEEEEE on June 29, 2007 at 09:43:50 PT This is a good quote Jefferson once famously said, “The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants”.These tyrants are very dangerous. For change, enough people have to get off their butts! [ Post Comment ] Comment #5 posted by museman on June 29, 2007 at 09:35:13 PT chicken shits of America " ...Ms. von Hofe said she only pleaded guilty to misdemeanor marijuana possession because the police had threatened to press charges against her two sons if she did not." This is an example of the only reason I have a felony record. My wife was arrested 3 days after my first bust, because I put her down as my next of kin, and she had the same address. I had to plead guilty to two felonies to get the charges against her dropped. My children were directly threatened by these monsters, and I had no choice. She and I did not even have such a luxury of claiming her innocence, even though like this woman she had nothing to do with my crop. This was before the WOD however, so no efforts on the part of the feds or leos was made to confiscate property.These people have too much power, and that is the bottom line. They are fascist, demonic, hateful creatures who need to be put out of our misery. [ Post Comment ] Comment #4 posted by MikeEEEEE on June 29, 2007 at 09:33:58 PT What we need is change, and the how-to Don't expect the corporate sponsored media to help. A good place to start is here (with the 5th paragraph). This is worth a read: http://www.commondreams.org/archive/2007/06/29/2181/ [ Post Comment ] Comment #3 posted by MikeEEEEE on June 29, 2007 at 09:14:39 PT Zandor I agree. [ Post Comment ] Comment #2 posted by Zandor on June 29, 2007 at 08:06:59 PT What a shame!! Again this is a total shame on the American people; perpetrated by those who we once trusted with authority over us. Now they use logic once used by the Nazi's to steal the personal wealth of the Jews and others in Germany to finance their war. Once again the US Government is doing the exact same thing to it's own people to finance it's war on Americans. This brings shame upon every American.If he has a moonshine operation this would not even be an issue. Because it's a plant that a corporation can't patten then it must be stopped at all cost. After all it's not their money they play with....it's ours! [ Post Comment ] Comment #1 posted by FoM on June 29, 2007 at 07:20:57 PT CBS/AP: Feds Can Seize Half Of House In Pot Case June 28, 2007Court Rules Wife's Interest In House Cannot Be Seized Because Of Husband's Conviction.A Connecticut woman who has maintained that she was not aware of her husband's hobby of raising marijuana in the basement will get to keep her half of their house, a federal appeals court has ruled. The 2nd Circuit U.S. Court of Appeals, in a decision issued Wednesday, ruled that Harold von Hofe has to forfeit his interest in the home to the federal government. However, his wife does not have to because she was not actively involved in her husband's marijuana cultivation. Complete Article: http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2007/06/28/national/main2992724.shtml [ Post Comment ] Post Comment