cannabisnews.com: A Question of Consequences





A Question of Consequences
Posted by CN Staff on September 25, 2006 at 09:40:32 PT
By Jesse Fitts
Source: Rebel Yell
Nevada -- This November, the people of Nevada will vote on a number of ballot initiatives, one of which deals with marijuana laws. This initiative, known as Question 7, will decriminalize possession of the substance up to one ounce for people over the age of 21. The laws for minors will stay generally the same. There will be harsher penalties for helping minors acquire marijuana and for vehicular manslaughter while intoxicated. Half of the tax and licensing money for marijuana will benefit drug education; the other half will go into the state fund.
Some might claim Question 7's motivation is amoral. The advocates say, look, the laws have failed; everyone that wants to smoke pot does it anyway, so let's regulate and tax it, making it safer. The thrust of the argument is pragmatic, and pragmatic arguments ring well with people, especially Americans. But these arguments often don't consider whether something is inherently good or bad. In this argument, from consequences comes merit or malignance. Though most people mix their ethical theories, conservatives of an odd stripe pounce on this pragmatism. This strategy generally fails—especially in this case.It is important to note that many advocates of Question 7 are impartial regarding marijuana usage. Generally, this is the case with these types of arguments, as with abortion. I don't want women to have to go through abortions, and I don't urge everyone to start smoking pot, but reason dictates that both should be legal.Also, one shouldn't feign that all in Question 7 is perfect. There are costs and benefits to weigh. The pull is between the desire to stop unjust incarcerations and the simultaneous desire to strip the government of as much power as possible. Anti-authoritarians cringe to relinquish any power to the government, even the power to regulate. It takes more power from the people. This inclination must be juxtaposed with the costs of not passing it. One must ask, what's worse, more government control or unjust incarcerations stemming from laws that don't work or make sense? The reasonable answer is the latter. The argument for Question 7's passage is pragmatic. The evaluation of the cost benefit analysis works just the same.Back to the argument: Suppose I argue that abortion should stay legal because the likely consequences of outlawing it would be terrible. One could counter by claiming that abortion is wrong in itself and should be illegal regardless of consequences. Now further suppose someone uses this strategy with Question 7. They would say, regardless of the consequences, it shouldn't be passed because marijuana usage is bad in itself. One can't consistently condone the use of alcohol and tobacco while condemning Question 7 without appealing to consequences. What could one say? One could perhaps disallow all drug usage, but most don't take this position. Or, one could say that outlawing tobacco and alcohol will have dire consequences, as did prohibition.Once someone makes this move, then the battle is between consequences. There is not the space here to compare consequences, but advocates for Question 7 win the argument.Progressives endure criticism that they are impractical. Reason and reality are on our side. Source: Rebel Yell (Las Vegas, NV Edu)Author: Jesse FittsPublished: September 25, 2006Copyright: 2006 Rebel YellWebsite: http://www.ryunlv.com/Contact: http://tinyurl.com/q939rRelated Articles & Web Site:Regulate and Control Marijuanahttp://www.regulatemarijuana.org/Reefer Redux - Las Vegas Sunhttp://cannabisnews.com/news/thread22192.shtmlSmoke Screens - Las Vegas City Lifehttp://cannabisnews.com/news/thread22191.shtmlBallot Initiative: Internal Poll Finds Support http://cannabisnews.com/news/thread22190.shtml
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Comment #34 posted by FoM on September 27, 2006 at 12:12:25 PT
A Small Clip from the CSNY Tour
CSNY Let's Impeach The President http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cUBhG-zHHwA&mode=related&search=
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Comment #33 posted by FoM on September 27, 2006 at 11:50:34 PT
Max Flowers 
Thank you. I didn't know that. I don't mind watching TV News but the commercials are really hard to handle. That's a great alternative and I never thought about it.
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Comment #32 posted by Max Flowers on September 27, 2006 at 11:33:08 PT
FoM
A reminder---you can always watch the Keith Olbermann pieces by themselves on YouTube. People are posting those every day after they are on TV. So it's a convenient way to watch them without watching TV. Just go to YouTube and then search for "Keith Olbermann"
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Comment #31 posted by FoM on September 26, 2006 at 11:54:59 PT
Whig
Thank you. Great song from a great artist. If the USA was filled with Neil Young clones we would have a wonderful country I believe.
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Comment #30 posted by FoM on September 26, 2006 at 11:52:50 PT
Whig
I do watch Olbermann but recently we have been busy working on the house and avoiding TV News in general. Most of the news is just trying to keep the Republicans in power this election. I don't want to see them belly ache.
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Comment #29 posted by whig on September 26, 2006 at 11:47:28 PT
FoM
I hope you watched Olbermann too, he is inspired now.
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Comment #28 posted by FoM on September 26, 2006 at 11:35:34 PT
Hope
I watched the interview on YouTube last night and boy did Clinton tell him how it was. I am not a Clinton person but he really did a good job.
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Comment #27 posted by whig on September 26, 2006 at 11:05:39 PT
FoM
http://cannablog.wordpress.com/2006/09/26/who-should-you-listen-to/
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Comment #26 posted by Hope on September 26, 2006 at 10:37:18 PT
Thanks...
I found it.http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,215397,00.html
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Comment #25 posted by Hope on September 26, 2006 at 10:08:15 PT
Anyone know where a transcript 
of the Wallace/Clinton debacle is online?
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Comment #24 posted by FoM on September 26, 2006 at 08:56:53 PT
Nuevo Mexican
I try to watch Keith Olbermann and he has been great with his opinions. I hope they don't cancel his show. They got rid of Jesse Ventura fast after he was outspoken.
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Comment #23 posted by nuevo mexican on September 26, 2006 at 08:16:40 PT
Keith Obermans smacks down bush and facism!
Check it out, send all of these far and wide, as the Internets' IS the new TV, with YOUTUBE, who needs to spend the dough?Keith Rocks the Nation:
http://www.crooksandliars.com/2006/09/25/olbermanns-special-comment-are-yours-the-actions-of-a-true-american/Waterboarding, bushes favorite pastime?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lskKZ5QPiEc&NR
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Comment #22 posted by afterburner on September 26, 2006 at 07:37:09 PT
Canadian Federal Medical Marijuana Exemptees Speak
Canadian Federal Medical Marijuana Exemptees Speak OutWanted: Sane Health PolicyCN BC: PUB LTE: Medicinal Marijuana 'Saved My Life', Nelson Daily News, (25 Sep 2006) Carl Anderson
http://www.mapinc.org/newstcl/v06/n1276/a07.html?176CN ON: PUB LTE: Tories Tough On Less Crime, Niagara This Week, (20 Sep 2006) Russell Barth
http://www.mapinc.org/drugnews/v06/n1253/a04.htmlCN AB: PUB LTE: The `All Use Is Abuse' Fallacy, Stettler Independent, (14 Sep 2006) Russell Barth
http://www.mapinc.org/newstcl/v06/n1238/a03.html?176&&&Good NewsCN BC: Pot Activist Settles, Edmonton Sun, (23 Sep 2006) 
http://www.mapinc.org/newstcl/v06/n1266/a04.html?180Excerpt: "VANCOUVER -- An American pot activist who launched an intense legal fight against extradition to the U.S., has quietly settled her legal and immigration issues. "After negotiating a plea agreement of simple possession of marijuana with U.S. prosecutors, Renee Boje dropped her extradition appeal in B.C. and returned to California from B.C. last month." &&&Hemp NewsCN ON: Million-Dollar Company All Started With Tortilla Chips, Toronto Business Times, (21 Sep 2006) 
http://www.mapinc.org/newstcl/v06/n1276/a09.html?176&&&Children & Garbage?CN NU: Rankin Middle School Student Caught With Dope, Nunavut News North, (25 Sep 2006)
http://www.mapinc.org/newstcl/v06/n1276/a06.html?176We don't want 'kids' bringing unsupervised 'drugs' to school, but isn't Sgt. Gavin Nash of the Rankin detachment of the RCMP a tiny bit biased when he says, "We all have to work together to get this garbage out of our community." Garbage?&&&Dirty Laundry and Trash?CN MB: OPED: Living The Headlines, Winnipeg Free Press, (25 Sep 2006)
Trust Me, The Police Are Doing A Vital Job In Taking Out The Trash
http://www.mapinc.org/newstcl/v06/n1277/a06.html?176By refusing to consider regulation and taxation (except for the stingy Federal medical marijuana monopoly) as a method of providing a legal market for cannabis, the Canadian federal government encourages turning the 'drug' trade over to street dealers"Dirty laundry and trash," these are the metaphors used by Operation Clean Sweep to describe the drug dealers and sex trade participants in downtown Winnipeg. By conflating cannabis with hard drugs, the police and law makers allow the black market to 'control' the 'drug' trade and encourage access to truly dangerous hard drugs. By refusing to see 'drug' users as people in need of treatment and concentrating our resources on law enforcement, we miss the opportunity to help the victims of an exploitative system of sex and hard drugs to recover and to lead productive lives.  "Taking the drug business out of the hands of teens and criminals and putting it into the hands of responsible adults is socially conservative. "Generating tax revenue from that industry is fiscally conservative, and using that money to teach kids why they should avoid drugs is morally conservative."
--Russell Barth
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Comment #21 posted by whig on September 26, 2006 at 01:37:10 PT
lombar
I define the problem as public confusion over the nature of cannabis, its relative safety and beneficial properties.That is the problem by which all other problems are caused, because without cannabis we cannot see clearly, we are deceived into deceiving ourselves.Cannabis is a flower which sustains us as a community, as flowers do bees. We cannot save ourselves if we haven't any food to eat, or to feed our spirit with.
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Comment #20 posted by whig on September 26, 2006 at 01:32:20 PT
Propaganda: Pete's Couch
http://tinyurl.com/eldt2
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Comment #19 posted by lombar on September 25, 2006 at 23:11:51 PT
Observe, model, compute, solve.
One must define a problem before one can set out to solve it.Never despair; but if you do, work on in despair.
Edmund Burke 
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Comment #18 posted by whig on September 25, 2006 at 22:43:23 PT
lombar
I don't know what to say but if we focus on the problems we get bogged down and defeated. I try to focus on the solution, and even if it had a low chance of success I think we're doing the right thing by focusing on cannabis. I don't think we will fail, either. But it will be difficult and they are going to fight us with everything they have if they can because they lose once we win. There will be no way for people to maintain artificial privileges through deception, because people who use cannabis can see right through that bullshit.
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Comment #17 posted by FoM on September 25, 2006 at 19:38:01 PT
Lombar
That's great about getting published. 
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Comment #16 posted by FoM on September 25, 2006 at 19:36:05 PT
Lombar
I understand what you are saying. I also believe people can make money off the stock market but most people live hand to mouth practically anymore so it isn't even an option for most people. You got to have money to make money.
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Comment #15 posted by lombar on September 25, 2006 at 19:18:14 PT
Worse
America appears to be being 'nazified'. That people can get years in prison for slights like drugs yet leaders can allow/create so much mayhem is just not right. I seriously doubt that my government makes its own major policy decisions and has not since the 80's. What has happened to us is 'structural adjustment programs' imposed by the IMF and the World Bank. Canada used to finance itself with the bank of Canada, borrowing at low interest rates. However now, the money is borrowed from private banks at market interest rates.Anyone can make a lot of money on the stock market, especially now, by playing the short term fluctuations, speculating *as long as they have enough free capital to start with(ie don't bet the house). If you examine the market for any amount of time there are certain stocks that represent low risk but can easily fluctuate 2% in a day. The tricky bit is picking when it goes up.... With patience and a bit of savy (ie effects of news items on things - for instance, I read slashdot and one day, there was an item about AMD slashing the prices on their CPUs. Their stocks rose a few dollars in a few days(about $18/share). IBM announced that they were going to use AMD chips in their servers, the current market value is 26.77), a little skill and nerve, anyone can get rich off the stock market. Anyone with enough money that is. The down side is that this does not really add any value to the market if *you* are successful. The game is flawed and all the games are tilted to the few who own the bulk of the wealth.I recently had a letter to ed published in a nearby municipality and the councillor saw fit to respond. Must have struck a nerve. He wrote a letter about how they are hiring more police for taking down grows so I complained that if they must hire more cops, at least put them to real crimes. He wrote another that was in last saturdays agreeing that they need more cops for other crimes BUT the citizens need to be protected from organized crime and 'violence' associated with grow ops. They are ass backwards and I am sick of it. If they dont want grow ops then legalize the cannabis, don't waste the peoples money chasing your own tail. They cant get but a fraction without using serious resources and even the cops have to have priorities.
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Comment #14 posted by FoM on September 25, 2006 at 18:18:12 PT
Lombar
Thank you. It sounds a lot like the problems in the states. I am more a northern, liberal but conservative, green, democrat. I turn away from any party that seems to make capitalism some form of a god. I believe in the american dream of home ownership and the importance of a family. I don't believe in the stock market because it seems like a big pyramid scheme to me. Most people lose if you aren't at the top. I don't believe in being bombarded with ads everywhere we turn. That drives me a little crazy. If I want to buy something I will find it myself. I fear that your country is becoming to americanized.
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Comment #13 posted by whig on September 25, 2006 at 18:04:14 PT
lombar
As I see it, I don't think that voting can fix anything, at best you can slow down the process by which the state takes all authority for a few privileged people and deprives the rest. What we need are new institutions, new ways of governing ourselves which do not depend upon force and which rely more upon persuasion and agreement.That's really what I think blogtopia is becoming (skippy the bush kangaroo invented that word and it fits in well with my own thinking on what we are trying to do). We are the government, for real. You are part of the new government. We're just small right now and not very powerful, but powerful enough to make a difference.People are reading blogs, people who you might not expect. People like Bill Clinton who is meeting with bloggers and showing them respect. I don't care about Bill or his politics, I do care that people are willing to stand up and be seen with bloggers. We are credible and influential.I am representing the cannabis coalition, if you like. I am a representative to the blogtopia, self-selected. You can be self-selected too, you just blog, and then you let people know, and if they look at your writing and they like it, they link to it. I link to a number of our community sites and I talk about our issues, and it makes a difference. People who read me and like me want to consider my perspective. That's how we change the world, one perspective at a time.http://cannablog.wordpress.com/Pretty soon I think I'm moving the site to a pay service or putting it on a server that I can manage because it needs to be able to have more features and this is a thing that I think I can do for a long time and make a difference.I'm trying to encourage everyone to blog, and start a blog if you can, or participate on blogs if you can't. We can talk to one another here at Cannabis News, and we can be a little bit more casual here because we know that we are friends who care about the issue of cannabis over all. But when we talk here we are not being heard by the people who need to hear us, so I think we need to take our message out and spread it around.Stan White writes letters to the editor which are incredibly impressive, I wish I could be as forthright as he is in such a medium. I may have an article published in the World of Cannabis Festival program, and maybe it will reach some people beyond the blogtopia. But the intermediate space of the blog is where I can be casual, and still reach a broad audience.
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Comment #12 posted by lombar on September 25, 2006 at 17:37:10 PT
The Liberals
The liberals were roasted over the Sponsorship Scandal. It is more a vote against the Liberals than for the conservatives. However western Canada is staunchly conservative. The Reform party came from Alberta then became the Canadian Alliance then they basically hijacked the Progresive Conservative Party and formed into the Conservative Party Of Canada. Frankly, anyone who wanted to support them is supporting the 'Americanization' of Canada (no insult is intended). The rich people here want your economy (actually I do not know what they want) or Canada to be more like the USA. It has been going on for a long time and people are either not paying attention or just not capable of facing the reality that their government has not represented their interests for years because of the merging of business with politics. Since the system is being skewed to favor the big business, people are just grist for the mill. Canadians should not vote for either the Liberals or whoever is claiming to be conservatives these days, they have been screwing the people since Mulroney.(who drastically reduced the reserve requirements in the banks who have been since used to create the money to sell the country to foreign investors at our expense)I have been at a very low ebb of morale for my country. It's depressing. The last election had a poor voter turnout and the current government only has about %30 (or less) of the votes. Until they talke about monetary, parlimentary, justice, drug law reforms, they are basically enforcing their 'laws' which nobody who has to live under the yoke of it had any say in making and a minority will can force it into law. Too many laws that restrict the people and not enough to restrict the government and police.
911 was a planned event, the prize was your freedom.
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Comment #11 posted by FoM on September 25, 2006 at 15:58:11 PT
lombar
The friendship with Bush wasn't before you got a conservative in power. War is a money maker. Peace doesn't mean anything to fighting type republicans or conservatives or whatever they are. Canada and the USA are really more like one country now. Why did liberal Canada vote for a Bush type person? I don't understand.
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Comment #10 posted by lombar on September 25, 2006 at 15:34:06 PT
They really do not represent Canadians
Harper set to announce $15B in military spendinghttp://tinyurl.com/polaySo, how is that $13 billion going to the debt again?
Prime Minister Harper announces upgrade of the RCMP Training Academy and...
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Comment #9 posted by lombar on September 25, 2006 at 15:27:17 PT
We are sheep
Canadians have been hit with about 2 decades of social spending cuts to 'pay the debt' but now the Harper conservatives are spending that money on police and military.(prisons instead of hospitals and schools, sound familiar?) Paying the debt is such a joke considering it is impossible, the fiat currency system is financing the sellout of the country. Of course they cut medical cannabis research, they obey the DEA when it comes to cannabis.
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Comment #8 posted by FoM on September 25, 2006 at 14:01:27 PT
News Article from The Canadian Press 
Medical Marijuana Takes Hit as Tories Announce $2 Billion in CutsPublished: Monday, September 25, 2006  OTTAWA (CP) - Research on medical marijuana was among the casualties today as the Conservative government announced $2 billion in spending cuts and streamlining across all federal departments. Finance Minister Jim Flaherty also announced that the government recorded a $13.2-billion surplus in the last fiscal year and that all the cash will go toward paying down the national debt. The so-called expenditure review focused on areas where Prime Minister Stephen Harper's government did not see value for money. Treasury Board President John Baird said the $2 billion is savings over two years come through cuts to unnecessary programs, streamlining of services, and by coming in under budget in a number of areas. The cuts include the elimination of the $4-million medical marijuana research program and administrative savings of $5 million from status of women agency. After the surplus is applied, the national debt will stand at $481.5 billion. Copyright: The Canadian Press 2006URL: http://tinyurl.com/nyt4u
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Comment #7 posted by whig on September 25, 2006 at 12:38:34 PT
Had Enough
That is so sweet. Paul McCartney is still married to Linda.
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Comment #6 posted by whig on September 25, 2006 at 12:36:38 PT
Good article
Jesse Fitts is addressing the traditional conservatives.
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Comment #5 posted by FoM on September 25, 2006 at 12:16:32 PT
Had Enough
That sounds like it would be good but sad. 
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Comment #4 posted by Had Enough on September 25, 2006 at 11:48:38 PT
Music..........
Is our special friend…
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Comment #3 posted by Had Enough on September 25, 2006 at 11:45:36 PT
Paul McCartney says he's `doing fine'
Associated PressLONDON - Paul McCartney says he's "doing fine," despite the turmoil surrounding the breakup of his marriage. McCartney, who appeared Monday at a news conference to launch his new classical album, "Ecce Cor Meum (Behold My Heart)," did not comment directly on his split from his second wife, Heather Mills McCartney.Asked how he had been coping in recent months, McCartney said: "I'm doing fine thank you. It's OK."I'm enjoying music. It's something I love to do. It's something that sustains me. So I'm enjoying it, finishing this project off and also the next one."McCartney said he started "Ecce Cor Meum" when his first wife, Linda, was still alive. After she died of breast cancer in 1998, "it stalled me," the 64-year-old former Beatle said."I took a year or so before I could get back into it. The interlude in the middle is a particularly sad melody and is what got me going again," he said. "Her spirit is very much in this. It would have been her birthday yesterday so it's very appropriate."McCartney said the lyrics of "Ecce Cor Meum" were inspired by what he believes is important in life."When I came around to thinking, `what do I want the words to say?' I just wrote down a whole load of things that interest me about truth, about love, about honesty and about kindness. Stuff that I thought was important in life."more…http://www.mercurynews.com/mld/mercurynews/news/breaking_news/15604425.htm
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Comment #2 posted by FoM on September 25, 2006 at 10:21:01 PT
Interesting Article from The New York Times
Connections: 
A Crunchy-Granola Path From Macramé and LSD to Wikipedia and Google Published: September 25, 2006The pages are yellowed, the addresses and phone numbers all but useless, the products antique, the utopian expectations quaint. But the “Whole Earth Catalog” — and particularly “The Last Whole Earth Catalog,” published in 1971, which ended up selling a million copies and winning the National Book Award — has the eerie luminosity of a Sears catalog from the turn of the last century. It is a portrait of an age and its dreams. Deerskin jackets and potter’s wheels, geodesic domes and star charts, instructions on raising bees and on repairing Volkswagens, advice on building furniture and cultivating marijuana: all this can be found here, along with celebrations of communal life and swipes at big government, big business and a technocratic society.Complete Article: http://www.nytimes.com/2006/09/25/arts/25conn.html
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Comment #1 posted by FoM on September 25, 2006 at 09:44:32 PT
Correct Contact Information
Website: http://www.unlvrebelyell.com/Contact: http://www.unlvrebelyell.com/contact_us.php
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