cannabisnews.com: What If Pot Were Legal?










  What If Pot Were Legal?

Posted by CN Staff on August 20, 2006 at 07:52:26 PT
By Sandi Doughton, Seattle Times Staff Reporter 
Source: Seattle Times 

Seattle -- Fast-forward 20 years. The fondest dream of Seattle Hempfesters has come true: Pot is legal. But what of the iconic "protestival," with its swirl of tie-dye, aroma of patchouli and counterculture chic?It could well morph into the kind of mainstream affair many of today's adherents abhor, concedes the man who launched the legalization movement nationwide more than 35 years ago.
If people are able to buy weed like liquor and beer, it will probably come with the same kind of corporate trappings, said Keith Stroup, founder of the National Organization for the Reform of Marijuana Laws."I would love to see only nonprofit cooperatives ... or little produce stands," he said Saturday at Hempfest 2006. "But the truth is somebody is going to make a lot of money off of marijuana."The crush in Seattle's waterfront Myrtle Edwards Park on Saturday testified to the potential market. Organizers expect 150,000 people for the 15th annual event, which continues today and is the largest of its kind in the United States.The smell of marijuana wafted through the air, though most of the smokers gravitated to the margins of the crowd or gathered on rocks and logs on the beach. One group of six sharing a pipe gave their ages as 15 to 17, but declined to share their names."My parents don't know I'm here," said one boy, wearing a rainbow-colored, crocheted cap pulled over blond dreadlocks.In a world where the legal fight over marijuana has been settled, Hempfest spokesman Dominic Holden envisions a festival that would be more celebratory than activist. Like an Oktoberfest beer bash or a wine-tasting gala, participants could partake of different vintages and varieties of pot — probably in the kind of roped-off beer gardens common at concerts."Marijuana has an array of aromas and flavors, like fine tobacco," he said.Former Seattle restaurateur Kanti Selig, selling brownies and cookies made with hemp seeds — sorry, no THC, pot's active ingredient — sees only good things if the drug becomes more widely available."It would make everyone less fearful," she said, pulling the lid off a 4-quart container to display the cocoa-brown hemp powder she uses in baking. Hemp — marijuana without the hallucinogenic effect — is grown for food and fiber. It can be imported, but cultivation is restricted in the United States.If the high-protein plant were more widely available, the price would drop — seeds currently cost $12 to $13 a pound — and products like hemp milk, hemp cheese and hemp flour would be easier to get, she said.But a man who called himself Cloud, an organizer of Emerald Empire Hempfest in Eugene, Ore., worries that mom-and-pop artisans would get squeezed out if marijuana and its accoutrements went legit."That's a factory-produced tie-dye sheet," he said, pointing to a purple-and-red-banded cloth draped over a table where he and his buddies were selling buttons, hand-dyed T-shirts and PVC bongs as a fundraiser for their festival. "They just pump them out, and the quality suffers."Jan Earl of Tumwater paddled his aluminum canoe from Magnolia to avoid parking headaches."I came here for the party," he said, frying burgers on a crepe pan perched atop a tiny propane camp stove. But he also believes marijuana should be legalized — as a way to increase tax revenues and help pay down the national debt.Today at the festival, former Seattle Police Chief Norm Stamper is scheduled to call for an end to what he says is a futile and costly war on drugs. Stamper advocates legalization and regulation of not just pot, but heroin, cocaine and all other street drugs.Legality could douse Hempfest's cool vibe, said Stroup. But the sheer numbers of Americans who use pot — 27 million in the past year alone, according to government estimates, Stroup said — should keep the event afloat."It's not going to go away," he said, "even if it loses a little of its luster."Seattle Hempfest 2006 Pictures: http://tinyurl.com/ze23eSource: Seattle Times (WA)Author: Sandi Doughton, Seattle Times Staff ReporterPublished: Sunday, August 20, 2006Copyright: 2006 The Seattle Times CompanyContact: opinion seatimes.comWebsite: http://www.seattletimes.com/Related Articles & Web Sites:NORMLhttp://www.norml.org/Seattle Hempfesthttp://www.seattlehempfest.org/Marijuana Policy Reform is Emphasis at Hempfesthttp://cannabisnews.com/news/thread22080.shtml Medical Pot: Legal, But Still Under Wrapshttp://cannabisnews.com/news/thread22083.shtml

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Comment #423 posted by museman on August 26, 2006 at 11:11:19 PT
marshians
The poor man has been inundated with response from you all -he shut down his comments, so I couldn't give my own response. Therefore I am left with no recourse but to state it here, hoping he is looking to see what we are saying (I'm sure he is).Religion: It's definition means to 'constrain, or hold back.'Religion is a human system, an institution invented by the ruling class to keep the peasants in line. It's the way they've always handled the higher aspects of truth about our creator and his emmissaries of love and intelligence.Becoming a 'pastor' or an 'ordained minister' is a lot like becoming a politiican; you have to concede to the rules of the game particular to the sect, and effectively close your mind to all other perspectives."Religion" and "Church" have never ever had any true relationship to the Most High Creator Spirit called "God" like a disrespectful nickname by those ministers who by virtue of their club-like association consider themselves exclusive in their access to 'the truth.' Y'shua said "When two or more come together in my name, I will be with them."The whole idea of a manmade structure of any kind being the only place where "God hangs out" is not only very naive, but obviously ignorant as well. The idea that any man or group of people posesses all the truth, or all the facts is the most ridiculous thing to ever come down the pipe.
Wasn't it Y'shua who said "Who are you calling good? There is none good but the Father in Heaven!"And why exactly did He get so pissed when he came to the temple and saw what was being done by the money mongers?Wasn't it Y'shua who said, "Judge (condemn) not lest you be judged." Do xtians have some kind of exclusive exemption to that? Apparently being a minister gives you mandate to conveniently ignore profound truth while twisting vagueries to suit their purposes -which have always been hand in hand with the conquest and aquisition of power, and property.About 2 thousand years ago the rest of the first (and only) real xtians -who called themselves gnostic- were persecuted to the ends of the earth by the Romans. Right about the time that the last of the gnostics had fled into the desert, buried their sacred writings so that hopefully one day they would be found, and the truth once more would be circulating in the general human forum, right about the time when the Roman decadence (much like modern America) was causing it to collapse inward -the empire was failing- Constantine created the xtian church, integrated with ancient pagan beliefs, and precepts as old as Sumeria, Babylon, and Egypt. The church was founded on the cornerstone of fear-rejecting the stone of faith and belief which Y'shua exemplified.The only reason Y'shua's truth comes down to us 2 millennia later somewhat intact (though definitely incomplete) is because the early founders of the church could not understand His teachings, so they figured the 'ignorant masses' wouldn't either. The church and religion of 'Jesus Christ' (the name and character who is a total invention of the Roman Catholic Church) is corrupt, rotten in it's inception and it's core.Y'shua said, "If the heart of the tree is rotten wherefore is it's fruit?"All xtian religion are branches on the same rotten tree. The accountability will be held. Those who accept the false authority and stature of xtian 'ministry' will be held in greater responsibility than those who have been made ignorant by their false doctrines and teachings.
As Y'shua said, "To those who have, much will be given. To those who have not, even what they have will be taken away."Guilt and sin (not error, mistake, or wrongdoing) are power tools of both the church and state.Y'shua said "The Truth shall set you free." He told me when I was eight years old that He wasn't in the 'church.' After nearly thirty years of giving the xtian church all the opportunity to 'come clean' I finally had to accept that they were too firmly entrenched in their error, and that there is nothing about that institution -in any denomination that is worth saving.The same thing goes for our system of government, and the system of weights and measures which rules by the invented-but heavily enforced- system of wealth and propriety.And war. Don't forget war. Who propagates it? Who tells the young men that "God is on our side?" Who sent children, time and time again to their certain death claiming somekind of divine ordination to destroy, murder, maim, rape, and pillage? "In the name of 'jesus christ' our cause is just!"Y'shua said; "What you have done to these, the least of my brethren, you have done to me."I thank the Most High Creator YHWH that, as Y'hua said "...the truth is revealed to babes. And those who think themselves wise will be confounded."And cannabis. It's true that the precepts and doctrines of the church have made numerous claims about cannabis and it's relationship to 'witchcraft.' The 'loving, forgiving, tolerant church would gladly (and fervently) get hysterical and burn you for it. The fact that cannabis was used in the 
holy annointing oil used by both the Levites, and of course John the Baptist is a secret they thought to have buried along with all the other great truths of Y'shua and the Most High. The fact that it was a major ingredient in the temple incense, and therefore referred to in the Revelation of John when he states that the 'Prayers of the 'saints' (holy men) go up like the smoke of incense to Heaven.'This is the age of Revelation. Some call it 'the last days.' It is truly the last days of such ignorance and error as exalted in the xtian church, and in the society that is rooted in those ancient deliberate misconceptions of reality and the divine called the xtian religion, and the church. No religion is real. Faith and belief of the kind Y'shua asked for when he said, "Love each other as I have loved you." are not contained within them. Never were, and never will be.Y'shua said, "When you pray, pray in secret." Isn't that enough of a clue?" As Y'shua was recorded to have said as he was dying, "Forgive them Father, for they know not what they do."
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Comment #422 posted by FoM on August 26, 2006 at 11:00:37 PT
Another Thought
I really haven't thought much about war and history so I'm looking and Hitler didn't like communism if I'm reading that correctly. Hitler seems more like what we are becoming now. Have they all just blended together and we can't separate them as an ideal anymore?
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Comment #421 posted by global_warming on August 26, 2006 at 10:36:35 PT
I find it odd
The good pastor is a very busy man, though he has shut down this particular thread, he has so many other blogs open, indeed he has a lot to say, the odd thing is, that there are so few comments from his loyal following.I did notice that when ever he receives a compliment or some some imaginary support. the good pastor most graciously accepts and feels magnified.I personally do not believe he is a man of the cloth, for while visiting his site, I found links to war mongers and some of the most hateful people that I have read in contemporary news.http://tinyurl.com/yqr7uSo if you are inclined you can still approach this false preacher through his many portals that he seeks to find acceptance for his lost soul.http://tinyurl.com/eoubsI hope some of you have the stomach for this, I for one, do not.
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Comment #420 posted by FoM on August 26, 2006 at 10:24:10 PT
Interesting Link
History is a strange thing. If we look at history and see it was bad why would we want to do it that way again? We have talked on CNews about communism and how some of us were warned about it and to be careful when we were young. What is communism and how are we not acting similarly? Were we fooled again? Just thoughts I'm having.Hitler's Drugged Soldiers: 
http://service.spiegel.de/cache/international/0,1518,354606,00.html
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Comment #419 posted by FoM on August 26, 2006 at 09:52:30 PT
Hope
I'm glad you understood what I meant. I was one of the people that believed we needed shorter work weeks so the family could have time together. I believed in living with a little less so that we could make good memories with our children and spouse. I wasn't born with a pick and shovel in my hand. I also wonder why cocaine was put in America. Methamphetamine was used in WWII and it is a powerful stimulant which means more work and faster work for the powers that be.
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Comment #418 posted by Hope on August 26, 2006 at 09:44:09 PT
It is scary and people should be alarmed.
It's EXACTLY like what we fighting against in World War II.Exactly!
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Comment #417 posted by FoM on August 26, 2006 at 09:38:21 PT
Just A Thought
Sometimes I get to thinking about why our country is going in the direction it has been since Nixon escalated the drug war. We seem to want perfect people and if a person isn't perfect we need to hide them away from the society that they want to have. They want Stepford Wives and children that are beautiful in appearance and geared towards being a high level worker for the benefit of who owns the companies. Anything less is like a blight on the image of Perfect America. Why does that sounds so much like what we were fighting in a World War? 
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Comment #416 posted by Hope on August 26, 2006 at 09:37:32 PT
Being bent to the will of someone else...
forced "worship" of a man made idea and the man.That's all it is.Freedom is a terrifying idea to many people...especially other people's freedom.There are bad man made laws and there are good man made laws. It's imperative that we be able to decide which ones might be doing more harm than good, not based on superstition and imagined and exaggerated impressions.It's not the cannabis. It's not the drugs. It's the injustice or it all and the danger caused to people who are completely innocent of breaking even the man made laws. I can't forget them. Charity, Veronica, Ashley, Donald, Esequial, Alberto...and the list goes on and on.The only way I can see to protect the future victims is to end prohibition. Control and regulate drugs and powerful herbs, like we do alcohol.Prohibition kills those who didn't even make any decisions that might have put them in danger from the enforcers. That's worse than an overdose or a decision to take a risk.Prohibition works like this. Some one should have shot my friend's brother-in-law BEFORE he fell off that mountain...to save him from falling off that mountain.It's a disgusting mindset.
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Comment #415 posted by Hope on August 26, 2006 at 09:25:52 PT
So true
""Love thy neighbor." Christians say ... not love some of them.."The deeds of the flesh are many...some worse than others. Caging and abusing people because of what they consume has got to be one of the worst of them. There are many "worst" but it's definitely one of them.I hate that some people consume horses or puppy dogs...but to take their rights and freedom and everything else because of it is wrong. It's definitely a form of man worship. Prohibitionists and their enforcers and enablers are saying to everyone, "If you don't bow to me...I'll hurt you."Same ole stuff that's been going on for centuries...it just takes on different colors from time to time.It's wrong.
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Comment #414 posted by Hope on August 26, 2006 at 09:18:03 PT
You're all right...
B Green with we probably shouldn't have even tried to talk with the man. Dankhank with the fact that his disparagement of C-newsers and their thoughts, brought us there in the first place...and for sure, FoM was right with "God made us different to compliment one another."He said a lot of stuff that was just psycho babble...which may be true sometimes but other times it's just poppycock and always gasoline on the fire. I KNOW we are completely confident in that we are right about prohibition and we've got to stop the "collateral" damage and the "unintended" consequences.But I know that a person can be completely confident and be completely wrong. We are confident that we're doing the right thing by trying to make the world a better safer place by ending prohibition. I know I am. Cannabis prohibition is the most hideously unjust of all the substance prohibitions. The punishment and persecution is so much worse than the so called "crime" that it borders on some sort of crazy superstition. Actually ...it really is some sort of crazy superstition to treat people like monsters over what they consume....especially cannabis.I wonder how long it took the unsuperstitious to end witch burning and the inquisition.Slavery is still with us in some forms...but it's not as bad as when it was commonly accepted. People fought long and hard to change that. They struggled for a long time to end child labor that was so common at one time. They accomplished good things. We will, too.We'll never get rid of all the superstition and fears....but maybe we can make it less acceptable to treat people as badly and dangerously as they are being treated because of prohibition.
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Comment #413 posted by Dankhank on August 26, 2006 at 09:02:43 PT
Do No Harm ...
is in the hippocratic oath ... not, pick the least harm ..."Love thy neighbor." Christians say ... not love some of them ...Can you truly love a man you caged for using a plant?
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Comment #412 posted by FoM on August 26, 2006 at 08:21:35 PT
BGreen
I believe that more then not money is the real divider. I haven't received money for what I do. There are no motives coming from me. Money makes people change how they think if it will cause problems with money. Money is the divider not the drug issue in my opinion.
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Comment #411 posted by BGreen on August 26, 2006 at 08:13:04 PT
I felt the same way, Dankhank
His whole attitude was like "well, here are the facts from the government and as I believe them, but I'm sure you're too stoned or stupid to believe it."That's why I knew from the beginning to stay off of his site.Smart choice.The Reverend Bud Green
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Comment #410 posted by FoM on August 26, 2006 at 08:07:10 PT
Dankhank 
I'm sure he wasn't open. He believes what he believes. I won't waste my time trying to change someones mind once I know it is not going to change. My sister is a diehard Republican. We just don't talk about it very often and in turn we love one another and can get along.
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Comment #409 posted by Dankhank on August 26, 2006 at 08:03:00 PT
pastor
I don't believe the pastor was open.his opening salvo was white coats and nets?how open is that?mocking us as crazy?I never felt we could change him. I hope we gave him something to think about.Haven't seen him or anyone who reads him, here to save us ...
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Comment #408 posted by FoM on August 26, 2006 at 07:55:06 PT
Hope
Years ago Joyce and I had a very interesting and not angry e-mail exchanges. In the end she said she understood where I was coming from. We didn't fight at all. She didn't change her mind I'm sure but she got what I was trying to say.
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Comment #407 posted by FoM on August 26, 2006 at 07:51:51 PT
Hope
I think what it is for women we have to listen to little ones and we need to be patient when they try to stick their finger in the fan. Women react quicker to some things then men particularly when a threat arises to a child. Men make war and women seek peace. Men could be angry with one another and swearing but when a woman walks in the room they knock it off most times. I really think God made us different to compliment one another. He didn't make a mistake even though we think He did sometimes. LOL!
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Comment #406 posted by Hope on August 26, 2006 at 07:46:37 PT
Women and men
Women are just as inundated with hatred in this whole matter of what to blame on drugs and how to focus that hatred at other people as any man. We have Joyce...and Karen and many others. They are just as unreasonable on the whole matter. Some of them are even worse.
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Comment #405 posted by Hope on August 26, 2006 at 07:43:49 PT
FoM
I agree.It's instinctive or hormonal. That's probably part of our animal nature...and we just have to fight it if we want to rise above it.
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Comment #404 posted by FoM on August 26, 2006 at 07:11:06 PT
Hope
I wish that women could talk with other women on the prohibition side and let the men fight with the men. I feel bad because the Pastor was open for a while but the words of insult more then anything turned him off. That blog is his house not our house so I do understand why he shut it off. I won't talk down to anyone and I expect no one to talk down to me. I guess it's true that men are from Mars and women are from Venus. That doesn't mean one or the other is right just totally different. 
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Comment #403 posted by Hope on August 26, 2006 at 07:03:11 PT
just sort a lot of it until last night.. should be
I'd just sort of accepted a lot of it. Got lots of distractions going on this morning.
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Comment #402 posted by Hope on August 26, 2006 at 06:59:40 PT
Thanks, guys...
I appreciate it.It's so hard to lose a young person or a child. It's hard to lose anyone but it's even worse with children or young people. Traffic accidents are a killer. No doubt.This whole blame everything on "drugs killed them" thing is far over used it seems. It's weird that I hadn't sort of connected it all with the "crack baby syndrome" until suddenly waking the middle of the night realizing it. I'd just sort a lot of it until last night...when I woke up in the middle of the night thinking about it.The world is a dangerous place. To persecute and imprison a large group of people to blame them for the "drugs" phenomonon seems more and more sick all the time.In his last years my dad once said that "horses" ruined his life...but that that was all he knew.I guess people are always looking for a "reason". Life is hard...and it always maims or kills a person.They don't say a "car killed her" or a "motorcycle or a surfboard killed them"..."going to work" killed him or "going to the movies" killed him. Or football killed him or being a cheerleader or a waitress killed her. It's got to be something they can hate and get behind hating.So if even the hint of an opportunity comes up...it's "drugs" did it.It's sad. It wouldn't be so bad if it weren't used as an excuse to attack people. But it is.
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Comment #401 posted by global_warming on August 26, 2006 at 04:06:59 PT
I say
This pastor has wasted 30 years of his life, while studying the bible in search of the Christ he seeks to serve. If only he understood what that carpenter said, the Kingdom of God is "WITHIN" not in the lines of ink on the pages of some book.I now have pity for this very lost soul and even more pity for those he leads, may God help them.
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Comment #400 posted by whig on August 26, 2006 at 03:07:41 PT
My sense
It's really hard to actually overdose to death on most drugs. Even when people deliberately try it most of the time results in a hospital stay and recovery. I suspect that most people who do fatally overdose really meant to do that. And it should go without saying that nobody's ever fatally overdosed cannabis.
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Comment #399 posted by whig on August 26, 2006 at 03:00:38 PT
Hope
I knew someone who may have died of diabetes during a meth binge.
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Comment #398 posted by BGreen on August 26, 2006 at 02:17:09 PT
correction to my previous post
The line should read: I've lost friends during my life and it was mostly due to traffic accidents.The Reverend Bud Green
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Comment #397 posted by BGreen on August 26, 2006 at 02:14:03 PT
Hope, either "drugs" are a scapegoat
or else Marsh is a horrible counselor. Keep him away from suicidal members of his flock.I've lost friend during my life and it was mostly due to traffic accidents. One commited suicide (sober) and two deaths were directly related to excessive alcohol consumption, but it was over a period of many years and not an overdose.You aren't alone, Hope, you're just extremely perceptive.The Reverend Bud Green
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Comment #396 posted by Hope on August 26, 2006 at 02:07:24 PT
It's after four a.m. now...
I'm going to try to get a bit more sleep...but I knew I couldn't sleep until I talked to you guys about this. Maybe I'm wrong. Maybe prohibitionists aren't exaggerating the problem to prop up prohibiton. But I can't help but wonder.
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Comment #395 posted by Hope on August 26, 2006 at 02:02:06 PT
It's about three a.m. here...
I just woke from a sound sleep recalling something the pastor said.He said, "I’ve been in the ministry for over 30 years, I buried one nephew and several of my friends sons and daughters who died from drugs."Somehow during the night...my mind connected his statement with the police officer I met who said I wouldn't feel the way I do about ending prohibition if I'd seen all the "poor little crack babies, crying and shaking and suffering because of being born addicted to crack, like he had. Of course, we know that's not true. The poor little "souless", ruined little crack babies never happened. They were a myth. A myth promoted all over the place at one time.Don't misunderstand me. I'm not saying it doesn't happen. I'm 58 years old. I know a lot of people. I've known a lot of people, of course, that died. I know there are people who have died of drug overdoses, including alcohol. I've seen and read it in the news. But I've never actually known a single one of them or known anyone actually related to them. Certainly, I've never known anyone or of anyone who died, for a fact, because of cannabis use. I know a woman whose son committed suicide and she always blamed it on "drugs". He was perfect and she was a perfect parent...before drugs. It had to be the drugs. I've, thankfully, known of a very, very FEW people over the years who had car accidents and motorcycle accidents that were actually BLAMED on drugs...including alcohol. Am I and everyone I know a phenomonon...unusual, because of this? In my life, and I've known and met people who were meth addicts and heroin addicts....that I know of, but I never personally knew anyone who died, outright because of a drug overdose...young or old. I'm not saying, of course, that they don't happen. I've known people who blamed drugs for deaths...including murders, suicides, and accidents. I know that some people have died because of prohibition...like on the Drug War Victims pages.Is this "knowing so many people who died from drugs" another "crack baby" thing? Is this exaggeration or assumption?How many of you know how many people who died...really died because of drug use? I'm not talking about BLAMING it on drug use. I'm talking needle in the arm...unadulterated, purely, for a fact, drug overdoses.Even of all the accidents, illnesses, and suicides that have happened to people I've known and their families...there isn't one that can actually be truly attributed to being caused solely by "drug" use. The people who had these accidents or deaths all had problems, personalities, or attributes that were attributal to the various tragedies, but could not legitimately be called drug deaths or accidents. Accidents happen to people with and without having ever used a drug. There was drug use, including alcohol, in some cases, but the drugs didn't actually kill them. I've known quite a few people who went to jail or prison because of drug possession...but I've been very blessed in not knowing a single one, that I can recall of the drug overdose death people.People blaming terrible loss on drugs is not uncommon. Are there many people who have attended "many" funerals, preaching them or not, for people who died directly from drug use?Are people using "Drugs" for something to blame...just because they had to blame something or someone?Are we getting exaggerations and lies to legitamize prohibition...as in the "crack baby" phenomonon?Of course, none of this is about cannabis...but they, like Marsh always go back and blame cannabis..."That's what they started with.". I guess it's possible he isn't prevaricating...but how many of you know several people...young people, especially, who died of "drugs"? He makes it sound common.And of course, all in all, thousands of people in jail and prison and prohibition, in all it's glory, didn't prevent a one of these deaths.I don't mean to hurt anyone's feelings or get them in an uproar or seem stupid and niave. I was just wondering. I've known some "screwed up" people in my long life...but they would have been that way...drugs or not. So what's the situation? Are there many people out there, as the pastor is, that have buried several or many people killed by illegal drugs outright?
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Comment #394 posted by whig on August 26, 2006 at 00:18:23 PT
Toby Tobiason
From a completely separate thread elsewhere:Here is a relevant quote from this month's Harpers, "Imagine There's No Oil" by Bryant Urstadt:"In When Prophecy Fails, Festinger and his co-authors explained that a committed believer, faced with irrefutable evidence contradicting his belief -- with what Festinger called a 'disconfirmation' -- would redouble rather than dimish his efforts to defend his view. Stranger yet, the more harshly reality dealt with a belief, the more feverishly the believer would work to convert others."The Festinger in the quote is Leon Festinger from the University of Minnesota. The book was published in 1956. The study undertaken by Festinger was in reference to the apocalyptic worldview. As in "the world will end on August 23, 2006. Oops, the world didn't end. So, there's got to be a good explanation ... I know, our efforts at warning the world SAVED the world."Regarding http://tinyurl.com/kt2l3
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Comment #393 posted by whig on August 25, 2006 at 23:09:29 PT
afterburner
I have thought of many accusations I could throw at Pastor Marsh. There is not a single one of them I can think of that I cannot as equally accuse myself.We are works in progress, and some of us do not understand for a longer time than others. We are all responsible for the choices we make, but we are entitled to take the time to learn and grow and make mistakes along the way.I find myself often darkening, and thinking these accusatory thoughts, and when that happens it is in fact me becoming the dark aspect, and I should strive against that tendency. I am not perfectly pure yet.But Louie is honest, he says he looks within himself and sees darkness. He will hear us. He has not forgotten and we are not his enemies. We want him to stop hating us. We do not hate him.It is this way with wayward children, like me.
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Comment #392 posted by afterburner on August 25, 2006 at 22:40:29 PT
Hope #371-386
Looking back on my own post (#64) regarding Pastor Marsh, I found that my descriptions of him as "holier-than-thou" and "so-called pastor" could be interpreted by some as name calling. I see "holier-than-thou" as an accurate description of the attitudes I saw expressed by Pastor Marsh in his blog, not an attack on him personally. It is probably unwise and disrespectful for a guest to attack a host in his own house or in his own blog. I chose to make my comments here at cnews instead. "So-called pastor" to me means that Brother Marsh is misleading his flock with his misinformation about cannabis. His therapy seems to be taking pages out of the ONDCP/DEA playbook instead of the Bible.I have heard in person and read on-line far worse words used by cannabis activists to attack each other. As a people we have been brutalized by the rough treatment we have received from law enforcement, law makers, and bigots in the general population. We do need to work on our anger issues and to make sure our anger is righteous anger, not petty vindictiveness. Hate the sin, but love the sinner. Remember the "love project"? We should not put words in his mouth in order to set up a strawman argument. We need to confront the ideas, not the individual. Pastor Marsh did not make this easy with his condescending attitude and to some extent erroneous notions. Pastor Marsh has declared himself to be our enemy by his endorsement of the War on Drugs. It is not too late for us to "Love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you." Perhaps, the ire of our fire has hardened Brother Louie's position, but I would not be surprised if some of our facts and attitudes are rolling around in his mind as he reevaluates his position and attempts to justify himself.I found his comment about Jesus to be very confusing: "You are blind to reality and think one plant can save the world.
It can’t! No plant, or drug or invention or technology can - only Christ can." Jesus gave us the knowledge of healing plants, wonder drugs, inventions and technology. Why does Brother Marsh see an either-or when Jesus gave us not only his example but also created the world through the power of the Word in the beginning, according to John? Jesus did his healing through the power of the Holy Spirit and promised to send the Holy Spirit to us so that we too might have understanding and healing power. Plants or drugs or inventions or technology are merely facets of the beautiful Christ diamond. Sparkle on, or as global_warming might say, "Twinkle on!" We do not worship plants, but they are keys or guides or angels to help us in our spiritual growth. God created them. We do not worship wonder drugs, unless we are pharmaceutical companies worshiping mammon (money); we are awe-struck with wonder at their rapid strong action. We do not worship inventions, but Christ, the Messiah, the Anointed One has given them to us to improve our life on this planet, to help one another, to pull ourselves out of the mud, beyond the beasts of burden and the slavery of former days. The "chosen people" were chosen because they were his creations enslaved by false religion and brutality, not because they were perfect or wise. They worshiped a gold-en calf while Moses was talking to God and getting the inside scoop on how to live a just life! "Technology from technE art, skill + -o- + -logia -logy [literally, science or word of art, skill]
1 a : the practical application of knowledge especially in a particular area", so says Merriam-Webster OnLine http://www.m-w.com/dictionary/technology . We appreciate technology but we do not worship it. I had an instructor once who said, "We do not worship the computer" as he knelt in front of it. It was an ironic gesture, good for a laugh. We do appreciate the Internet because it gives us a tool for activism, information about suffering cannabis lovers, cannabis facts and critiques of the lies told by prohibitionists. It helps us plan our actions, like those rallies Toker00 likes to attend, NORML conferences, voter initiative drives, and support for coops, collectives, compassion societies, hospices and dispensaries under attack by repressive government forces. WWJD? 
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Comment #391 posted by BGreen on August 25, 2006 at 22:24:47 PT
We did nothing wrong re: "Pastor" Louie
I told you about him from the start and I stand by my gut feeling after reading his blog.He embodies the typical hatred of all of God's creations just like our own president. "Pastor" Louie has embraced the false god instead of the God of Truth, and he is no different than the other false christians I've encountered.Do you know how much it hurts my heart and soul that I see more love and truth in those that DON'T profess a belief in God (in the typical mainstream religious way) than by those proclaiming the closest walk with their God?"Pastor" Louie needs to place the blame of cannabis squarely on the back of the Creator but that doesn't fit his agenda.I told you this was a battle beyond the mortal and that it was beyond our ability to change his heart.I also want to stop hearing that we got angry and that closed "Pastor" Louie's heart.Of course we're angry! Just thinking about my friend runruff and his wife makes me livid!WHAT DOES "PASTOR" LOUIE HAVE TO BE ANGRY ABOUT? NOTHING!He's getting 700,000 arrests a year for cannabis in this country. He's got the largest prison population per capita in the ENTIRE WORLD to appease his troubled soul. He's got the ability to shun the will of God in order to follow the "laws of man."I've known so many "Pastor" Louie's in my life that it sickens me, and they all boil with an underlying hatred under the guise of their form of christianity.They are wolves in sheep's clothing.The Reverend Bud Green
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Comment #390 posted by whig on August 25, 2006 at 22:21:53 PT
Hope
I was blunt with him but I don't think I was unkind. I said some things here that maybe were too strongly worded. But I tried to be firm but honest with him. In my opinion, as a man, this is what other men respect. When a man speaks without firmness he is perceived as yielding and weak, and dismissed.Maybe your approach is better, maybe you could have phrased yourself differently if you'd been more patient, maybe, maybe. But I don't think it mattered. I don't think anything we said would have made a difference to Pastor Louie. He had established his position and was not going to show an inch to us.What I said to him in the final message I wrote is true, I believe. He will have some time to think about things and he will remember our words. It may be years from now but he cannot put it forever from his memory. What we did made a difference.
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Comment #389 posted by Dankhank on August 25, 2006 at 21:46:00 PT
Brother Louie said ...
If you read the Gospels, you’ll see Jesus being very blunt with people.Food for thought.
Comment by louie — August 21, 2006   5:30 pm just seems he was not willing to be bluntly talked to as he was to us and then his mind closed stating that he will never change his mind about illegal drugs as if they are the worst things we could use, giving only cursory glances at the real dangers: alcohol and nicotine, the greatest killers in this country.He buried one young man for an overdose, never stating WHAT drug the unfortunate man OD'd on, as he apparently considers all illegal drugs are the same.How many people has this pastor counseled that were dying of cancer, liver damage or any other disease linked to the REAL killer substances.It's really a shame, as he received many good references to some sanity, and likely will not view them. The chinese, or was it the japanese had the word for it ... Face ... do anything, say anything, cage anyone to save, FACE...
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Comment #388 posted by FoM on August 25, 2006 at 20:10:01 PT
Hope
I won't go anywhere but here to talk about cannabis. I won't work to make a point and then a fight breaks out and I feel I wasted my time. I will take on a challenge if I must but only if I must. I don't know why but that is how I am. I only wish to open a persons mind just a little bit and if what I would say helps then that's good. If not it's really ok. People are as committed to the drug war for their own reasons as we are against locking up people in a prison. I hope someday reason will rule. Maybe you can understand why I don't go to other web sites now. I have been hurt one too many times. 
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Comment #387 posted by Hope on August 25, 2006 at 20:00:44 PT
I'll say it right here...
Prohibition is wrong. It's stupid. It does more harm than good.But when I want to reason with a man, I won't get anywhere by calling him stupid and wrong. That's all he'll hear me say and everything else will just be a waste of breath.But I'll say it here...to people who agree with me. Prohibition is witless...stupid...arrogant...and causes much more harm than controling and regulating the prohibited substance.But not them...you can't tell them they're stupid and harmful and then expect them to be able to see your point.Outright prohibition of a substance is always wrong and harmful....but a person can change their way of thinking. They can grow. It's the prohibiton that's stupid...not the people. If they are hopelessly stupid...we'll never right this wrong.
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Comment #386 posted by Hope on August 25, 2006 at 19:50:57 PT
384
We accused him of things...instead of just disagreeing. We jumped on him. His anger increased as ours did. Angry people harden themselves. He's more a prohibitionist than he ever was because we angered him. We didn't soothe him or reason with him enough. He through up a blockade against us...he practically had to.When I said, "Men!" that time. I meant it, too. Men all too often want to fight before there is any real necessity for a fight. Fights, I think are best avoided. Reason is powerful...but it's lost immediately as soon as the uproar hits.I'm not accusing anyone of anything I didn't do myself. You are men. You can't be women...even if you wanted to. I think it's harder for men to keep from getting angry.Women, usually, have to have something more serious happening than men before they want to go tooth and toenail. Not always. I know women who are scrappers. In the barn, the bull or stallion often wants to get you...because he can and he wants to show you whose the boss. The average female waits until there is danger and a need to protect something.We got angry...with plenty of reason...not just anything he said...but we've had so much to be angry about...that it didn't take too much of the same ole manure coming at us before we took him down. We took ourselves down, too.Maybe I'm wrong. We couldn't have changed his mind...but if we'd been more respectful, I know he wasn't exceptionally respectful...there was an insult to C-Newsers as well as Chris Bennet from the start, but if we'd been more respectful...maybe he might have found a place and time to consider some of the things we said in a better light. Maybe not...but maybe yes.Anyway...I feel like we blew it.If it was supposed to be a throw down...we did a pretty good job of that.Anyway. What's done is done. There hasn't been a time when we all haven't thought we'd like to see the likes of Souder, Napelka, and Tandy take a flying leap, or at least trip over their own meanness...but it doesn't help in our desire to be listened to.So now...I'm stepping off my soapbox. I know you guys won't hate me and maybe you'll think about what I said. Maybe not. If it was supposed to be a knock down dragout...we did a good job. Everybody got knocked down and dragged out.
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Comment #385 posted by Hope on August 25, 2006 at 19:36:28 PT
I disagree...
"...there will always be harsh words from someone no matter how well you think you are controlling your own."There might be harsh words from the other side...but there doesn't HAVE to be from our side.Silence can speak volumes.Instead of Buffoon...we can say I disagree. You can respectifully disagree. I could have said Zero Tolerance really bothers me, because it always go too far. It always hurts more than it helps. It usually hurts the most innocent the worst...and makes them harder than they would have been if a problem had been handled with reason and thought.But I didn't. I blew it.I'm sad and regretful. I'm not loaded down with guilt and going to beat myself up or anything. I'm just determined to do better. We are trying to convince people of something. Not beat them over the head with it. We've been beat over the head with prohibitionists ideas ourselves and we've seen it happen to others...we ought to know it's a lousy tactic for making things better.I'm not going to beat myself up, either (I've repented)...I'm just going to grow. I'll do better next time.
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Comment #384 posted by whig on August 25, 2006 at 19:30:12 PT
Hope
I just don't see what you're seeing. Where did anything anyone said justify him being more of a prohibitionist?
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Comment #383 posted by Hope on August 25, 2006 at 19:28:06 PT
We can do better...
and I expect if we get another chance...we will.What did we accomplish? We likely made him more of a prohibitionist than he was before.That's not we want to do. At least it's not what I want to do.I want to end this injustice. I don't want anyone else killed, hurt, or imprisoned for cannabis ESPECIALLY...or being mistaken for a cannabis user, dealer, smuggler, or grower.I don't want anyone killed or abused over cocaine or meth. But that's another story. We are trying to stop the persecution of the people who might have something to do with cannabis...or be mistaken for someone who has anything to do with cannabis.It's about righting a wrong...not who can be the biggest horse's ass. I was one. (especially the comment about talking out of both sides of his mouth). I won't deny it. It might have made me feel better at that moment to lash out in anger...but it didn't help. It didn't convince one more person there might be a better way. We never even got to real control and regulation. But, God help me...I'll do better next time, I hope.I still think Hempity's testimony was beautiful. Thank you Hempity.
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Comment #382 posted by whig on August 25, 2006 at 19:24:36 PT
Hope
There is a problem with blaming ourselves if anyone says something even slightly harsh, because there will always be harsh words from someone no matter how well you think you are controlling your own. We are not perfect and never will become perfect in our human forms. This does not mean we should feel bad for trying, if we do so with honesty.
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Comment #381 posted by Hope on August 25, 2006 at 19:18:07 PT
We lost the chance to gain 
some respect.We'll surely do better at the next opportunity...but, alas, how often do prohibitionist's have open forums?His is the first I've seen...and we could have done better.We believe in personal responsibility. Part of that is self control. Self control...not letting our anger get the best of us...will help us see what we should do...not just what we want to do.We used to get a prohibitionist at the MAP chat now and then. We noticed that we were all on them like a pack of dogs. We agreed to stay calmer the next time and speak calmly and not all jump in with everything we'd like to say...in anger. We went slow. We went one at a time. We went carefully. We avoided having the effect of all piling on them like a pack of angry dogs.I'm not mad at anyone. I lost it, too. We've just got to do a better job if we ever get another chance anywhere.
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Comment #380 posted by Hope on August 25, 2006 at 19:12:32 PT
I know it's common today 
for people to be rude and call names and attack or snarl at people. It is. But that doesn't mean it's right or the best way.My friends are too uncommon to be that common. At least we should know the difference in a situation and know when when that sort of talk will harm our ability to reason with someone. 
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Comment #379 posted by Hope on August 25, 2006 at 19:09:33 PT
I don't think he will, Whig.
He was attacked. He is probably more solidified against our ideas than he was to begin with.
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Comment #378 posted by whig on August 25, 2006 at 19:06:33 PT
Hope
I left him a comment at the end as well, maybe some day he will re-read this exchange and understand what he fails to recognize today.
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Comment #377 posted by Hope on August 25, 2006 at 17:52:46 PT
There you go....that's what we have to leave out..
Mentally ill....rougue....buffoon.If anyone that doesn't agree with us is going to ever listen...we have to not call them names or accuse them of things. The enemy is prohibition. Prohibition kills.
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Comment #376 posted by global_warming on August 25, 2006 at 16:20:45 PT
hey Hope
You cannot argue with a mentally ill person, as this rouge pastor, who swears by some confusing writings, that were written so many ages in the past, such a person is filled with an understanding that has been lost in the threads of modernity, it is so so odd and funny, that good pople can become so blocked in thier mind and forget the message of the scriptures, it was the Law that placed the nails in his flesh, it was not cannabis, it was not good decent people, and yet this buffoon pastor continues his faulty path.
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Comment #375 posted by Hope on August 25, 2006 at 16:09:30 PT
We did get angry and abusive.
I did, too. We are going to have to work on that, somehow, before this is all over with.
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Comment #374 posted by Hope on August 25, 2006 at 16:07:40 PT
We have every reason to be angry. 
To be outraged at what we see happening to people because of their need or use of this plant is natural.But anger and outrage loses debates, and boxing matches, and ends conversations.
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Comment #373 posted by Hope on August 25, 2006 at 16:05:01 PT
We never misconstrued any scripture
that I saw. I take comfort in that.We might have seemed arrogant...but anybody on the upper end of the "food chain" that sees someone on the lower end of the "food chain" rise up...is going to construe that rising up as arrogance on our part.
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Comment #372 posted by Hope on August 25, 2006 at 16:00:18 PT
When I look at what we said and how we handled
our visit to his site...I see that the main thing we have to get more adept at is controlling our anger. It's not easy. There is so much to be angry about. I thought of the young quadraplegic in Washington who suffered and died because of prohibitionists often. I thought of the cure for cancer and help for other diseases. I thought of Runruff. I thought of the young man killed in Colorado earlier this month. I finally got mad, too. Wanting more zero tolerance was where I lost it. I wish I hadn't. If he was ever going to see our point of view it wasn't going to be by us attacking him. That's a fact.I'm talking about just seeing our point of view, too...not changing his.If we are going to converse with them...much less debate...we have to control the anger.A boxer usually loses, too, when he get's mad...I've heard.
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Comment #371 posted by Hope on August 25, 2006 at 15:47:57 PT
Pastor Marsh
kicked us out and slammed the door.It's his blog.I'm surprised he entertained our thoughts as long as he did.Peace and Love.
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Comment #370 posted by global_warming on August 25, 2006 at 15:43:06 PT
so it seems
that the most holy Pastor Marsh has closed his ears, yes he pays for his portal, and he will pay double for his ignorance, for such many fools who cling to ancient wordings can easily run afoul, with so much to understand and digest.Brother Marsh, you are welcome here, with all do respect to the Lady Fomme, if you ever get to wondering what is happening in the world, you can come here to visit, and maybe you might have a saving thought, May God Bless You and Fill Your Soul with Illumination, you know, twinkle twinkle, faster than your blink of your eye, you can truly recieve the full grace of God and the Power of the Holy Spirit.
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Comment #369 posted by Hope on August 25, 2006 at 15:40:39 PT
Her father's words....
I wasn't too young to hear them....or understand them.They had a powerful effect on me.
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Comment #368 posted by global_warming on August 25, 2006 at 15:01:51 PT
I have heard Ms. King 
and she is brilliant, I was too young to understand her fathers words, but every now and then one of Rev. Kings statements I get to read and I find that his words have a deep sense of understanding of this world.There is an Amen to you whigger, for I agree with you about Saul=Paul, we can only hope that an ass can fall off his ass, God Bless..
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Comment #367 posted by whig on August 24, 2006 at 17:17:43 PT
Bernice King
At the Eulogy for Coretta Scott King.
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Comment #366 posted by whig on August 24, 2006 at 17:16:54 PT
And other martyrs
Martin Luther King.Have you heard his daughter preach? She uplifted me.
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Comment #365 posted by whig on August 24, 2006 at 17:15:42 PT
As long as I'm naming names
People vs. John Lennon is going to be on screen soon.He's the one they crucified this time.
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Comment #364 posted by whig on August 24, 2006 at 17:13:10 PT
Hope, GW
Pastor Marsh is Saul, on the road to Damascus. We have just told him to stop persecuting us. Let him now become Paul.
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Comment #363 posted by global_warming on August 24, 2006 at 16:36:26 PT
Hope
He is a big boy, and if he is genuine, he can swim in the blood of that carpenter and hear the voices of this worlds inhumanity.If he has a message of the Christ, it has to be heard in the deepest and foulest prisons that man has made.
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Comment #362 posted by Hope on August 24, 2006 at 16:27:01 PT
 gw
You can't expect him to wade into water with all those circling shark fins in it.
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Comment #361 posted by Hope on August 24, 2006 at 16:25:00 PT
 gw
Admirable post you made there at the Chronicles, Brother gw.Thank you. A healing word.A gentle touch.An open hand...:0)
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Comment #360 posted by global_warming on August 24, 2006 at 16:19:20 PT
hey Hope
He can stew for awhile, he is just starting to wade into that deep water, God Love Him,..
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Comment #359 posted by global_warming on August 24, 2006 at 16:11:42 PT
so nicely said Lombar
Each breath and mark we make in this world, is our legacy, our fruits, our message that we bring to Eternity.
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Comment #358 posted by lombar on August 24, 2006 at 15:35:22 PT
Yesterday
I was talking to a few friends in the park and this lady aquaintance came to the table, chatted for awhile, then chased this kid that is a crack addict. She caught him and pummelled him, chased him out of the park. He was with his crack dealer at the time and he decided to say something. 
An argument ensued and she got rather shrill crying "you steal souls, crack steals souls." Her emotional reaction arose from her own insecurity in her sobriety. As a former crack/meth addict she feels very strongly that the temptation should not be present *rather* than acknowledging that it is her decision to do or not do crack. Harshly addicted crack addicts do not have their souls stolen, they gratefully give them up for another hit.Temptation will never be removed, the only thing is to grow in ones self. As an ex tobacco smoker I can attest that it is my hatred of smoking that made me quit. I hated 'needing' them, carrying them, obtaining them. Ashtrays, throat oysters, out of breath climbing stairs, ... Constant and truthful advertising helped as well in highlighting the negatives because the only positive is the illusion that the lizard hindbrain gives, the temporary pleasure which is really not good... because it conditions the mind, creates both craving and suffering, mental and physical... as with any pleasure.Many people are completely irrational about drugs. She does not want the crack dealer selling in the park (which is good!) but can't see the only way that would happen is if the market was regulated like alcohol. As long as its illegal, the parks/schools/streets are where the drugs will be sold. Abstinence may be the best course of action but people do stupid things sometimes and not everyone is wise enough to realize their imminent self-destruction (or walking death) that total addiction represents. However the drug still cannot 'taint' a person, the drug is inert, an object, it is our attitude towards it that determines our decision to use it or not. It is craving/lust that drives so many to ruin, cocaine may be their vehicle, but if not that, it would be something else.So the pastor may believe that we are out to legalize drugs and this is some kind of evil but its only to take it away from the gangsters. People will still need to be helped to deal with their addictions, whether its more or less, but at least then we don't have to have a police state with overpopulated prisons, the invasions and erosions of privacy, and the constant lies and misrepresentations of authorities and vested interests. 
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Comment #357 posted by Hope on August 24, 2006 at 15:30:06 PT
It's all over but the vitriol...
http://marshianchronicles.com/?p=695#comments
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Comment #356 posted by Hope on August 24, 2006 at 15:29:10 PT
  gw
Actually, gw, our conversation with Brother Marsh has taken a turn for the worse. It's become uncivil and well on it's way to you know where in you know what kind of basket.If there was any civil debate...it's over, looks to me like. He's mad and I can't say as I blame him.It's a shame.
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Comment #355 posted by global_warming on August 24, 2006 at 14:55:13 PT
question
How is Pastor Marsh handling all this, is he still reading the scriptures so close, that he has no time to look up, to look around and see all the wonders of prohibition.
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Comment #354 posted by Hope on August 24, 2006 at 14:10:03 PT
A favorite of Brother Marsh's and mine, too.
But we have this treasure in jars of clay to show that this all-surpassing power is from God and not from us.  We are hard pressed on every side, but not crushed; perplexed, but not in despair;  persecuted, but not abandoned; struck down, but not destroyed. 2 Corinthians 4:7-9 (NIV)
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Comment #353 posted by FoM on August 24, 2006 at 08:09:46 PT
New Video from LWW: Flags of Freedom
By Jack Flak, LWW TodayOur studio cameras captured the creation of Flags of Freedom.http://www.neilyoung.com/lwwtoday/lwwvideos/flagsoffreedom-doc_wm.html
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Comment #352 posted by FoM on August 24, 2006 at 08:08:03 PT
Afterburner
I haven't seen An Inconvenient Truth but I know it is happening. The lower part of the USA near the oceans will be lost. My nephew lives in Florida and they are having salt water infiltration in some areas. My sister in law and her husband went to Maine for a vacation and they are having salt infiltration happening up there too. I think it's too late. They didn't listen when we all warned about it many years ago. I guess moving away is the only solution in the not to distant future. How will people be compensated for this?
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Comment #351 posted by afterburner on August 24, 2006 at 07:45:35 PT
whig#254, Hope#235 & Sinsemilla J.#338, Celaya#350
whig #254, Hope #235 & Sinsemilla Jones #338, Celaya #350 
 
whig #254"God wants to be with his friends. That is heaven.
And we're all his children and we're all part of him and he is part of all of us." "I am he as you are he as you are me and we are all together."
--"I Am the Walrus"
Lyrics
http://www.themodernword.com/Joyce/music/beatles.htmlHope #235 & Sinsemilla Jones #338 Speaking of global warming:I just saw An Inconvenient Truth last night. Shocking! I knew global warming was getting to be a major problem. However, to hear Al Gore lay out the overboard CO2 increase and related unprecedented temperature increases that are causing the earth's glaciers to melt, as illustrated in before and after pictures of many glaciers, added a sense of urgency. Most telling was the melting of glaciers like Greenland and Antarctica, which could cause huge areas of the earth to be flooded. Southern Florida, The Netherlands, southern India, parts of China, for example, would be under water with hundreds of thousands of refugees. US Congressmen ignore the scientific proof of global warming for the false dichotomy of jobs versus the environment. They ignore the job potential of alternative biofuels in favor of the existing carbon economy. Maybe things really would have been far different in the USA if Al Gore had won the 2000 election. I had a disturbing thought today. What if the slow federal response to Hurricane Katrina was part of a PNAC test plan to see how much destruction and loss of life would be acceptable to the American public before they would speak out?Celaya #350"I know many people who have been helped tremendously by switching from alcohol to cannabis. Some have testified it saved their life."I think America is waking up to this, and that is why SAFER's message is resonating so well and having such success. Hopefully, it will make cannabis legal in Colorado in November!"I hope you're right. I see exactly the opposite happening in Canada. The unconscionable actions of the police authorized by the rabidly prohibitionist Conservative minority government to bust grow-ops, low level dealers and consumers is causing some in the younger generation to switch to the freer-of-harassment poison Alcohol. Will this fuel a meth epidemic which the prohibitionists will then blame on cannabis or recreational prescription drug abuse which again will be blamed on cannabis? I've lived through too many of these government black ops to stand idly by while another generation is sacrificed on the alter of prohibition!
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Comment #350 posted by Celaya on August 24, 2006 at 06:44:48 PT
Hope
"I think there are people out there on that alcohol, cocaine, heroin, meth tightrope that might give it up for a really good, safer than dead, cannabis plant."I know many people who have been helped tremendously by switching from alcohol to cannabis. Some have testified it saved their life.I think America is waking up to this, and that is why SAFER's message is resonating so well and having such success. Hopefully, it will make cannabis legal in Colorado in November!
SAFER
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Comment #349 posted by FoM on August 23, 2006 at 21:07:08 PT
Dr. Andrew Weil
He said a Coca chewing gum would take the edge off of those who are addicted to cocaine. He said coca leaves are antioxidants and beneficial.http://www.peruvillage.com/store/coca.html
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Comment #348 posted by Dankhank on August 23, 2006 at 20:58:13 PT
a picture ...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coca
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Comment #347 posted by Hope on August 23, 2006 at 20:57:33 PT
A safe practice?
That's really irritating.
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Comment #346 posted by Dankhank on August 23, 2006 at 20:53:57 PT
try this one ...
a gov't site on indigenous use of coca, but seems reasonable in tone ... imagine ...http://www.unodc.org/unodc/bulletin/bulletin_1977-01-01_1_page007.htmlOverview from page ...Coca use among the Indians of South America is seen to be physiologically beneficial in terms of their adaptation to hunger, cold and fatigue at high altitudes. Economic, social, and dietary advantages have also been pointed out.The principal physiological changes which have led earlier investigators to equate cocaine addiction with the chewing of coca leaves, quite possibly were produced by other alkaloids present. The addictive properties of cocaine are believed to be the result of its action on the cerebral cortex, an effect which the other alkaloids present do not have (Goodman 1965). In conclusion, the chewing of coca leaves does not seem to result in obvious physical and mental deterioration among the Indians. However, the ingestion of harmful alkaloids and probably pesticides as well (Duke n.p.) cannot be judged a safe practice. These observations are not cited to obscure the potential danger of the toxic alkaloids ingested by coca chewers, but rather to underscore the need for a thorough awareness of the interlocking nature of the components of a people's long standing adaptation to their environment.
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Comment #345 posted by Dankhank on August 23, 2006 at 20:24:23 PT
thaniks for not zinging me ...
Sinsemilla Jonesfor mispelling your handle ...
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Comment #344 posted by Dankhank on August 23, 2006 at 20:21:15 PT
No problem ...
It's important that we all give and get the most accurate information. I have no problem trying to live up to that idea ...Thanx ...Peace ...
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Comment #343 posted by Sinsemilla Jones on August 23, 2006 at 18:59:26 PT
Thanks whig!
The feeling is mutual.
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Comment #342 posted by BGreen on August 23, 2006 at 18:48:52 PT
whig re: post #324
Believe it or not, Claire McCaskill is less offensive than the incumbent, bush's ass kisser Jim Talent. Talent has no talent except parroting bush in his mindless war-mongering, and he needs to be eliminated from the political process.Now, the funny is that they had the news conference on Willie's bus. You see, when I was on Willie's bus it smelled like an Amsterdam coffeeshop (and I don't mean it smelled like coffee.) ROTFLMAOThe Reverend Bud Green
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Comment #341 posted by whig on August 23, 2006 at 17:28:25 PT
Sinsemilla Jones
Please keep posting as much as you want to even if it's just a little nitpick, because we all need to correct one another sometimes even if it's just something that could be misinterpreted. Also you have very insightful comments and I like reading what you have to say.
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Comment #340 posted by Sinsemilla Jones on August 23, 2006 at 16:50:20 PT
Yeah, hank, I admit it. I'm a damn perfectionist.
But this board is so much fun for a perfectionist, because most all the comments are so perfect.However, the problem is that there are so many wonderful, thoughtful things said here, and they spur so many other thoughts, emotions, and ideas, that it's hard for a perfectionist to make a perfect comment.So all that's left for me to do is nitpick, lol.
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Comment #339 posted by Dankhank on August 23, 2006 at 16:09:54 PT
Hashish ...
Sensemilla Jones ...thanks for making sure we understood that, my comment had the potential to be misunderstood.Hashish and Hash Oil production are concentrations and extractions, ...Hashish-concentration, Hashoil-extractionI had a really good story about South Americans and their uses of the Coca plant, I posted it here years ago, don't know if I can find it again, but I will try ...
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Comment #338 posted by Sinsemilla Jones on August 23, 2006 at 15:34:55 PT
A little ice age would have been nice this summer.
We need a big hemp age to save this century.When you consider all that cannabis can do - feeding the hungry with one of nature's most nutritious foods; conserving, reclaiming, and enriching the earth's soil with its amazing root system; providing an ecological, economical, and usually superior source for textiles, building materials, fuels, and tools from rope to dynamite; providing what is probably the safest, most effective, and most vesatile medicine bar none; and doing this while converting CO2 to O2 and producing mass at a greater rate than any other plant - can there really be a more important issue?A note on hash products. Hashish is not a chemical extract, but simply a physical seperation of resin from plant matter. Hash oil, however, is a chemical extract.
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Comment #337 posted by global_warming on August 23, 2006 at 14:43:42 PT
have you seen this?
http://tinyurl.com/fv6gfHope it does not offend anyone..
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Comment #336 posted by Hope on August 23, 2006 at 14:05:35 PT
And hemp
could grow a lot faster than brush...and it sure grows fast!
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Comment #335 posted by Hope on August 23, 2006 at 14:03:59 PT
Being able to include the sturdy hemp plant
into the operations of a family farm will help it a lot. It will help the whole world, right down to the very atmosphere of the Earth. The animals would thrive on it. I know the birds would.I'm convinced it could help aleviate global warming (the other one), if we ever get those that believe themselves to be our "masters" to see that truth. I can't get it out of my mind how scientists say that the brush growing up during the years of the plague in Europe apparently contributed to the Little Ice Age. I sure don't want another Ice Age...but a little cooling would be a good thing...I think.
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Comment #334 posted by FoM on August 23, 2006 at 13:57:45 PT
Hope
I agree that it is noble. Without the family farmers all we will have is really heartless people in control of our animals that we eat. Every animal should be treated well.
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Comment #333 posted by Hope on August 23, 2006 at 13:53:21 PT
Thank you, FoM...
The farms and the little people are important. Very important.I don't blame Willie for helping someone who might help save the family farms, at all. I can even admire him for putting that "pot" on the back burner for awhile...if it's a good cause. :0)Apparently, they've agreed to disagree on one matter so that they can do something about the matter that they do agree on.I can see the nobility in that.
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Comment #332 posted by FoM on August 23, 2006 at 13:48:05 PT
lombar
I think this is the largest one ever! Cool!
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Comment #331 posted by lombar on August 23, 2006 at 13:47:10 PT
Unless I misunderstood your comment...
Sometimes I do.What is the record number of posts on a thread? 
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Comment #330 posted by FoM on August 23, 2006 at 13:46:40 PT
Hope
You know how I feel about the american farmer because in my mind you are one. It is very important to Willie Nelson. I respect that because I don't want to lose mom and pop farms like we are now. 
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Comment #329 posted by Hope on August 23, 2006 at 13:42:08 PT
It's probably like FoM said...
He's willing to give up, or overlook, one thing that means a lot to him to get the help for something else, that means even more to him.Our horse ain't dead...but it sure is taking a heck of a long time for it to get on it's feet...so maybe he's laying off that horse a bit to give attention to one that might get up and run, right now.
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Comment #328 posted by lombar on August 23, 2006 at 13:39:19 PT
FoM
You are too kind..I could never have cut it (literally!) in med school, I did not even finish my BSc.. (I was a chemistry major) I was even thinking of trying to finish it of late just to have some alphabet after my name. I took science in university for two reasons:1) I wanted to figure out existence and wanted to know how far our understanding of science lets us see.. mindfulness of death from the age of 7 pretty much drove my depression and questing. If becoming aware of death is the end of childhood then I grew up early.2) If life really really sucked I would mix up a vat of illicit drugs and sell it to be wealthy because the world is corrupt. It is easy to prey on the weaknesses of others if you are ruthless.Well... 1) Science only goes so far. We can see billions of years into the past with our instruments and telescopes but we still cant answer the basic questions. We have theories that fit the available facts but so did the flat earth believers. Science does not deny the existence of God, just no measurable evidence of such a phenomena.2) I realized the value of virtue and will not contribute to peoples self-destruction via chemical induced oblivion. I will not enrich myself by creating misery, it is immoral and I would rather be dirt poor. Chemistry is dangerous, chemically pure drugs are very dangerous, wholly synthetic concoctions are stupidly dangerous... mixing it all is m-a-d-n-e-s-s.Actually, that would be the 'right livelyhood' of the 'Noble Eightfold Path', the practice of morality for the purpose of happiness, to not generate regret, or other bad 'karma'. Engaging in non-moral work creates unhappiness, it is like sowing weeds (not cannabis ;)) in your corn fields. The fruit of it is to choke the good. There are a lot of tares in the wheat these days...
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Comment #327 posted by Hope on August 23, 2006 at 13:38:35 PT
Willie Nelson
Whig, I don't get that either.Obviously, that Willie isn't a one issue person would explain some of it. But...why in the world would an anti-legalization politician even ask him for support...because as he said, he does have a lot of baggage with him? Maybe she, the politician, realizes the danger of that third rail and won't divulge her true feelings until after she wins. I don't know. I'm not going to count on her or trust anything to the imagination or speculation about any politican, Willie's endorsement or not. Clinton burned me badly on that one.I just don't know. I'm somewhat shocked though.
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Comment #326 posted by FoM on August 23, 2006 at 13:31:16 PT
Whig
Probably because of the support for family farms. That is very important to Willie Nelson. He has dedicated at least 20 years to the American Farmer.
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Comment #325 posted by FoM on August 23, 2006 at 13:28:06 PT
Hope
Afterburner gave me the e-mail and I sent him a message too. It's up to him to get back with us if he wants too now.
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Comment #324 posted by whig on August 23, 2006 at 13:28:04 PT
Willie Nelson
Why does he want to endorse a prohibitionist?http://tinyurl.com/p27e3
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Comment #323 posted by Hope on August 23, 2006 at 13:24:12 PT
I sent an email to that address...
dendeganjanist yahoo.comHaven't heard back yet.
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Comment #322 posted by FoM on August 23, 2006 at 13:18:23 PT
lombar
A doctor for sure. 
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Comment #321 posted by FoM on August 23, 2006 at 13:15:51 PT
Hope
Obama did cocaine and basically seems to believe like Governor Johnson did.
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Comment #320 posted by lombar on August 23, 2006 at 13:13:37 PT
Coca leafs
Cocaine is extracted and purified from the leaf. Something like 1000 kg of leafs per 1 kg of pure cocaine powder. It exisits in the plant as an organic complound that cannot be metabolized unless smoked/vaporized or precipitated with acid (cocaine sulfate, cocaine hydrochloride) into a water soluble salt which is what people 'snort' to get high. Freebasing is just returning the salt to the organic cocaine.People will throw their whole lives away pursuing that short-lived high... that is the 'ill', conduct towards the substance, when one allows it to drive one to crime, that is a character issue that cannot be solved by war. The prohibition approach only heightens the allure and further marginalizes the users. IF God forbid your child should be a 'crackhead', would you rather they see a doctor or a policeman? A hospital or a prison? Why is this so hard for people to get??? The violence reserved to the state should only be used against the violent and/or dangerous, whatever drug (or not) they are on...
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Comment #319 posted by Hope on August 23, 2006 at 13:12:32 PT
FoM
Got this message from DdC at another site.Thanks Hope, I never left, I just don’t post anymore. My old email was shutdown by Yahoo and I never received any from CN, this one listed at Marshland was working but I don’t check it much. Most of the threads I post these days are at DWR or Can Culture and a few others. Seems the pastor louie censors some things that don't agree with him. I posted another list of quotes and URL's on the 2nd thread and noticed it was removed. Oh well, it's more about giving the info than having vested interest accept it. I think he runs a treatment center so I doubt if he can see beyond his profits. Be well DdC Hi FoM dendeganjanist yahoo.com
DdC • 8/23/06; 2:52:33 PM #
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Comment #318 posted by whig on August 23, 2006 at 13:10:03 PT
Dankhank
That's really interesting, that you say. I don't know if coca is another tree of life? But I've never even seen coca -- cocaine, sure, but that's not coca. We don't grow it in this country and it's never been part of our natural culture.Just the synthetic. Cocaine.Anyhow that's a probably way off topic tangent to get into on CNews. I think it could also explain a lot of the cultural wars that take place between peoples, their respective trees of life, the flower of their region, is the base of their religious and social existence.Cultural imperialism is when one group raids the other's fields and replaces their flower with the flower of the invader.American Indians cultivated cannabis, did they not?
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Comment #317 posted by Hope on August 23, 2006 at 13:06:20 PT
Hemp is a blessed plant...
We've already gotten to see that people who need it, far and away, prefer the natural plant over the pills and sprays.I always like what Governor Johnson said about cocaine. He said he knew it was bad news in that it was "too good"...and he backed away from it immediately.My personal life experiences haven't always required that I try something myself. I see a guy kicked in the head by a mule and I know I don't want to get kicked in the head by a mule!I can learn, and have learned alot...from other people's experiences.
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Comment #316 posted by Hope on August 23, 2006 at 13:01:40 PT
I believe that, too, Lombar.
"People can grow good enough cannabis that all that crap is just unnecessary."I think there are people out there on that alcohol, cocaine, heroin, meth tightrope that might give it up for a really good, safer than dead, cannabis plant.God help us that maybe we can see that given a chance.
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Comment #315 posted by Dankhank on August 23, 2006 at 12:56:23 PT
Same .......
Hooray, they are not the same.Indigenous South Americans use the coca plant in it's base form for food, medicine, religion, strength ... sound familiar?
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Comment #314 posted by lombar on August 23, 2006 at 12:53:45 PT
Hope
"I hope the pharmaceuticals don't figure out a way to do something like that with the cannabis leaf."I know. They know. THC can be isolated and purified from cannabis (or extracts) by way of chromatography.The cocaine molecule acts far differently upon the brain, directly affecting the pleasure centers far more profoundly. I have never really studied it but I am certain the mental conditioning effect, the 'addiction' is a powerful craving... then again I see people picking buts out of ashtrays to re-roll. (ugh!)If you like I could give you a reference to an actual scientific journal that you might be able to look up in any university library... ;)People can grow good enough cannabis that all that crap is just unnecessary. Easier to be grateful for the bounty of nature and enjoy the whole herb.
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Comment #313 posted by Hope on August 23, 2006 at 12:53:33 PT
They do something to the coca leaf
that apparently goes well beyond extraction and condensation and stuff. They turn a green leaf into something that is a long, long way from where it started. It's nothing like hashish or a tincture or even that bubble hash. It's a whole new "animal" with a whole new effect than from where it started. It's so different and so chemicalized, like heroin, it makes me wonder if they really need the orignal plant base to do their chemical creations.I guess it's not much different than making aspirin out of a willow tree. But I think they've learned to make salycilic acid without the help of a willow tree...and I have little doubt that should they reach their Souder like dream of eradicating the innocent plants ...that the completely chemically created form of cocaine and heroin would be the very next step. It would probably be a much, much, nastier booger than the cocaine and heroin we see now.
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Comment #312 posted by FoM on August 23, 2006 at 12:52:29 PT
global_warming
They would say that because they want their party to be in the running. I really didn't know until right before the 04 elections that they are Libertarians because I believed before I ever posted any news from their web site that they weren't associated with the LP because it says they weren't. I guess I'm just gullible.
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Comment #311 posted by whig on August 23, 2006 at 12:50:33 PT
Dankhank
I would still be concerned that the phytochemists could create a partial synthetic from cannabis extract that would have effects at high potencies. "Crack cannabis" even if it existed wouldn't have any kind of a market though if cannabis itself were legal because who would want something like that when the whole plant is cheap and available.Actually I do think the market for cocaine would also dry up if the coca leaf itself were legalized, but it's a very different analysis because coca is not the same as cannabis.
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Comment #310 posted by global_warming on August 23, 2006 at 12:47:48 PT
Murkowski, Outski
http://www.reason.com/hitandrun/2006/08/murkowski_outsk.shtmlAugust 23, 2006
Murkowski, OutskiFrom the Last Frontier, Kwix sends in the news that Frank Murkowski, "the civil rights-violating Governor who attempted to unconstitutionally recriminalize Marijuana 3 times in his tenure, and gave us this lovely piece of crap last week," has lost the GOP primary with only 19 percent of the vote. Former Democratic Gov. Tony Knowles will square off in November against Murkowski's primary conqueror, former Wasilla mayor Sarah Palin. I know nothing about either candidate, except that Palin looks delightfully perky while Knowles appears to be suffering from the freezer burn to which, I presume, Alaskans are especially prone. 
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Comment #309 posted by Dankhank on August 23, 2006 at 12:42:25 PT
Cocaine
is the refined coca leaf ...Essentually, after finding the right coca plant, most won't do, there is a complicated, dangerous, long process to extract the alkaloid that will eventually become the white powder.Hashish and Hash Oil production are concentrations and extractions, my scientific vocabulary fails me for the proper terminology, and while may be similar in nature or concept, Cannabis likely has no alkaloyd or other compound that can be concentrated to achieve a similar effect.http://boards.marihemp.com/boards/msg21x892.shtmlPeace to all who seek to learn ...
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Comment #308 posted by FoM on August 23, 2006 at 10:23:09 PT

Hope
I don't believe there is anything wrong with the coca leaf. Natural plants have properties that synthetic drugs don't. Man made versus created makes the difference in my opinion. Even the poppy (that even my mother grew years ago when I was very young) is a natural pain medicine. 
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Comment #307 posted by Hope on August 23, 2006 at 10:17:30 PT

Cocaine
Apparently, cocaine is a lot different animal than the natural coca leaf. I hope the pharmaceuticals don't figure out a way to do something like that with the cannabis leaf.
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Comment #306 posted by FoM on August 23, 2006 at 09:50:20 PT

Hope
I saw Robin Williams on tv and he said that his cocaine years were his lost years. (About 10 years) He doesn't do that drug anymore so he is probably ok now.
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Comment #305 posted by Hope on August 23, 2006 at 09:42:05 PT

Robin Williams is a very funny man...
It makes me sad to think that he might be so unhappy on the inside...as is often the case with those who are gifted at making us laugh.
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Comment #304 posted by FoM on August 23, 2006 at 09:38:26 PT

Dankhank
I liked him in Mrs. Doubtfire and Birdcage. I don't think I've seen his other movies.
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Comment #303 posted by Hope on August 23, 2006 at 09:37:57 PT

Whew! It wasn't the edge.
"Babbling lowly"? Gloovins?I thought I was babbling loudly.:0)
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Comment #302 posted by Dankhank on August 23, 2006 at 09:34:20 PT

Robin ...
He's got quite a list of accomplishments ...http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0000245/Some things I liked more than others ..."The Fisher King," "Jack" "Artificial Intelligence," but that was really Haley Joel Osment's movie ... and "The Final Cut", a truly hard-hitting character"Bicentennial Man" was good, more in my mind since the original story was written by Issac Asimov."RV" was funny in spots, not so much his, but, others.I have seen more animated movies than normal for me as I have attended them with children. Too many use his voice.I want new animated movies that have different voices.Too much Robin, I fear ....
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Comment #301 posted by FoM on August 23, 2006 at 09:32:37 PT

Hope
I don't think there is a limited on comments only on how big a comment might get. 
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Comment #300 posted by FoM on August 23, 2006 at 09:31:01 PT

A Question
Can Renee come back to live in the USA with her husband if she wants? 
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Comment #299 posted by Hope on August 23, 2006 at 09:29:57 PT

Reckon
this thing will accept a three hundreth comment? Is this the edge?
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Comment #298 posted by Hope on August 23, 2006 at 09:28:29 PT

Comment 296!
Something wonderful! Something good!I'm so glad.
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Comment #297 posted by Celaya on August 23, 2006 at 09:27:01 PT

Renee IS Free!
http://www.cannabisculture.com/articles/4803.htmlReefer refugee Renee Boje is finally free. In 1998, Boje faced a 10 year mandatory minimum to life sentence in a US Federal Prison for her minor involvement in a well known medical marijuana and research garden owned by cancer patient and marijuana activist Todd McCormick and best selling author and Aids patient Peter McWilliams. In 1998, fearing persecution over medical marijuana charges, Boje fled from the US to Canada on the advice of her lawyer. In 2001 Boje Married Canadian marijuana activist and author Chris Bennett and in 2002 she gave birth to their Canadian son, Shiva Sun Bennett. Many had hoped that Boje's marriage to a Canadian and the birth of her Canadian son would be enough for her to be allowed to stay in Canada and avoid the ten year sentencing she was facing in the US. But sadly through the decision of the same Justice Minister who allowed US authorities to raid Emery Seeds, this was not to be the case. Boje lost her fight against US extradition when the Liberal Justice Minister Irwin Cotler decided against her in 2005. Boje and her family were devastated by the decision because they were told by her lawyers that the Minister’s appeal was her best chance for winning her freedom in Canada and that there was a 99% chance she would lose her appeal in the higher courts with the current Conservative government in power. Boje appealed Cotler's decision and in that intervening period she received an offer from the US for a plea bargain and negotiations then were initiated between Boje's Canadian lawyer John Conroy and Federal US Prosecutors in LA. On August 10th Boje traveled to Los Angeles for an August 14th court date in which she pled guilty to possession of half of a gram of marijuana. Judge George H. King, who was the judge throughout the McCormick and McWilliams hearings, sentenced Boje to one year’s probation, giving her permission to reside in Canada with her family.Boje returned to Canada on August 15th and Canadian officials almost denied her entry into Canada, but relented and let her stay for one week while a decision about her status was in the works at Immigration Canada. In the end after a week of worrying she might be deported Canadian Immigration officials granted Boje a 6 month visitors permit, which will likely give her time to secure Canadian citizenship so she can remain in Canada permanently with her family.
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Comment #296 posted by FoM on August 23, 2006 at 09:13:33 PT

Good News: Renee Boje is Free
I read Renee is free! I haven't found an article so far though. http://www.reneeboje.com/
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Comment #295 posted by Dankhank on August 23, 2006 at 09:06:25 PT

my fault ...
i may have too may email accts, don't think of it I will read it shortly ...thanxPeace ...
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Comment #294 posted by Hope on August 23, 2006 at 08:59:37 PT

Celaya...comment 278
I agree.
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Comment #293 posted by Hope on August 23, 2006 at 08:54:32 PT

Whig, Comment 272
Wow! "Rip a shirt" at you? He was mad! I've heard of that. You've been through it, haven't you? Mercy!I've seriously considered all this as some sort of insanity. Finally, I decided..."Yup...maybe." and jumped in anyway with both feet!Lot's going on before we rot in that box! Go out swinging! Crazy or not! Part of my craziness though requires justice and getting rid of us as much pain and misery as possible here on Earth while we're still breathing...or dreaming we're breathing...I've thought about that, too. Maybe it's all a dream...somebody's or something's wild dream. Got a lot to do before they wake up.I hate pain, and misery, and sickness and suffering. I do hate it. "Drug War Victims"...before Pete ever made the page...is what brought me to this point. Stop the cruelty. Stop the idiocy.It's not idiocy to contain a murderer or a rapist where he can't hurt others...but the Drug War is idiocy. If we don't fight against it...we're as bad as the murderers and rapists.

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Comment #292 posted by Celaya on August 23, 2006 at 08:50:15 PT

Dankhank
I can understand that a lot of it depends on how you feel about Robin Williams. I'm still a big fan of his.
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Comment #291 posted by FoM on August 23, 2006 at 08:44:42 PT

Off Topic: Living With War Today
Marines Ready to Call Back Thousands of Reservistshttp://www.kltv.com/Global/story.asp?S=5315514
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Comment #290 posted by Hope on August 23, 2006 at 08:37:14 PT

We are "nutty"...aren't we?
Mispoke a few things late last night. Those preachers that don't preach the really good news aren't "lying"...they just didn't get the whole message.That's worried me until I got back here.Rot in a box? We'll be lucky if we don't all blow away in a mushroom cloud the way things are looking.Nothing wrong with big ideas, while we can have them, I say...unless they come after you with Marsh's "White coats" and "Nets".
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Comment #289 posted by FoM on August 23, 2006 at 08:35:45 PT

Dankhank
My son and I watched this movie together and we both really liked it. I had forgotten the name of the movie and just went and checked and found it.Heart and Soul: http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0107091/
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Comment #288 posted by FoM on August 23, 2006 at 08:26:08 PT

Dankhank
Maybe they will tour again next year and we can plan it a little better. I sent it to another e-mail account (juno). Oops sorry. 
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Comment #287 posted by Dankhank on August 23, 2006 at 08:22:30 PT:

movies ....
FoM, Celaya ...My standard for a good movie ... will I watch it again? ... fails me for "What Dreams May Come," but I think it was OK. At this time of my life, I think I have seen enough of Robin Williams and heard enough of his voice. As proof of that I saw his latest movie in the theatre. Enough, I fear ...Heavenly Kid was great, we all liked that one 'round here. I just watched a piece of it last week ...FoM, I didn't get you email the other day, don't know why ...I'm sorry to say that my schedule precludes attendance at CSNY ... thanks for you kind offer .......Peace to all ....
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Comment #286 posted by FoM on August 23, 2006 at 07:57:31 PT

Celaya
We had a video store years ago and now there isn't any place to rent movies. I don't watch movies often since I had to watch trailers every night. I will cancel Showtime after Weeds is over this season. We kept it for a year but we can count on one hand how many movies we've watched.
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Comment #285 posted by Celaya on August 23, 2006 at 07:52:54 PT

FoM
That could be a l-o-o-n-g wait! If it weren't for Weeds, I'd cancel Showtime. Seems like they show the same movies over and over - for years!Best bet is to rent it.
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Comment #284 posted by FoM on August 23, 2006 at 07:22:57 PT

Celaya
I'll keep my eyes open for it. Maybe they will show it on Showtime.
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Comment #283 posted by Celaya on August 23, 2006 at 07:12:22 PT

FoM
Try it. You'll like it. 8^)  It's one of all-time favorites. 
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Comment #282 posted by FoM on August 23, 2006 at 07:03:40 PT

Celaya
I think I would like seeing that movie. I loved a movie years ago called the Heavenly Kid and one with Robert Downey Jr. and Ghost.
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Comment #281 posted by Celaya on August 23, 2006 at 06:56:27 PT

Sorry about that
Try these:http://www.mrqe.com/lookup?What+Dreams+May+Comehttp://rogerebert.suntimes.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/19981002/REVIEWS/810020306/1023It is Roger Ebert's review at the Chicago Sun/Times.
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Comment #280 posted by FoM on August 23, 2006 at 06:45:06 PT

Celaya
The link didn't work. I haven't seen the movie but from what you said it sounds interesting.
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Comment #279 posted by Celaya on August 23, 2006 at 06:40:08 PT

Speaking of Spiritual Speculation
Has anyone seen the movie, "What Dreams May Come?" To me, it is the most beautiful, and satisfying vision of what an afterlife might be like.
What Dreams May Come
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Comment #278 posted by Celaya on August 23, 2006 at 06:28:17 PT

BGreen
In my optimistic/agnostic/leaning toward Gaia perspective, I look at it this way. If there is a God and an after life, I don't believe he/she could be so cruel as to hold it against any of us very limited, humble humans who couldn't find a way to believe in him/her.Or, as a "psychic" told me many moons ago, "You're on the right track, you just need to stop worrying about it." 8^)
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Comment #277 posted by FoM on August 23, 2006 at 06:19:57 PT

gloovins
I finally have made a stand on a political party. I am going from an Independent to a Democrat after the election this fall. I won't switch now for fear my vote might not count and we are voting for a new governor in my state but I will be ready for 08. What is The ULC? Everything I have done here on CNews has been because I believe in a guiding hand. I am not smart enough to do what I do on my own. 
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Comment #276 posted by FoM on August 23, 2006 at 05:58:41 PT

Celaya
I agree. That's what I liked about the sixties/seventies so much. As long as your heart was in the right place, nothing else mattered. 
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Comment #275 posted by BGreen on August 23, 2006 at 05:30:37 PT

The eternal question comes to mind
Am I religious because I'm nutty or am I nutty because I'm religious?I toke, therefore I am.I addressed those of you like gloovins in post #191, so relax and remember this ... you better hope when it's all said and done that WE'RE the nutty ones or you'll feel really silly. LOLThe Reverend (and proud of it!) Bud Green
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Comment #274 posted by Celaya on August 23, 2006 at 05:00:04 PT

gloovins
Thanks for your perspective.  I hope that here, in this very special place, there's room for religious AND non-religious people to come together and love and respect each other.That's what I liked about the sixties/seventies so much. As long as your heart was in the right place, nothing else mattered. Beyond Tolerance
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Comment #273 posted by gloovins on August 23, 2006 at 03:27:15 PT

You nutty religious people
We rot in a box when we dieall of usNow, on planet earth, as we destroy her slowlyWe babble about religion lowlyEmbrace the truthYou are "god" of your own worldUniversal Life Believe in the force or god that exsisted before the Earth was created BIBLE = Books Involving Bogus Literature Entirely, seeJust wake up & join either The ULC or the LP.org (& vote!) & make a differenceJesus was a good man, but just a man, see?It's a hard pill to swallow but so is that big multi-vitamin 
you take at the start of the day.:) 
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Comment #272 posted by whig on August 22, 2006 at 23:31:22 PT

Hope
I'll tell you when it happened -- self-psychoanalysis is ever so much fun.First, there were some radical Jewish people who came to our Sunday school and told us all about how the Moshiach was coming. (They were right, by the way. But let's leave that alone for the moment.) They got us all inspired about this or at least I was, and I was told to go home and start kosherizing or something ridiculous. I was all of, I don't know, ten years old maybe.My parents had a fit, of course. Condemned the temple for letting those radicals in, and me for believing them. Condemned me for believing in God.So I stopped believing.Then I was expected, anyhow, to get a Bar Mitzvah. I didn't want to get a Bar Mitzvah, it didn't mean anything at all to me. I didn't even believe in God. It was stupid. But my grandfather became angry, he was furious, he threatened to rip a shirt at me... to cast me out of the family...if I did not have a Bar Mitzvah. So I had a Bar Mitzvah and I congratulated my grandfather on it.And I hated God, who my grandfather believed in, and for whom I'd had to do this thing.And then there was the confirmation. The temple my parents belonged to was a Reform congregation. They had a confirmation from the sunday school at age 16. It was important to my father that I be confirmed. He said he'd never cared about the Bar Mitzvah, that was all my grandfather (maternal)'s idea and all he wanted to make sure of is that I had "completed my Jewish education" by having the confirmation.So I said I would not. And the Rabbi spoke with my father, and my father told the Rabbi he had offered to let me have his old chevy when I turned 16 and got my license, and the Rabbi told him that he should make it conditional on my getting confirmed. Now I don't actually know what the Rabbi and my father said to one another, but this is what my father told me, and because the Rabbi had told him he should break that promise, I would not be allowed to have the car if I did not get confirmed.So I had my confirmation. And congratulated my father.And I hated the Rabbi, and I hated my father.And I did not drive that car for two years.He never understood how harmful his deceptions were. He never understood that honesty is best with children. Perhaps he never had anyone that was honest with him.I love my father, and he's making a lot of progress as am I.
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Comment #271 posted by whig on August 22, 2006 at 23:18:57 PT

Hope
I have a tendency to write certain thoughts in a very abbreviated form. Maybe I understand it better that way but it's not too helpful to anyone who doesn't know how I was getting myself to the point of making that statement.I'm saying that really hatred and evil are the same thing. If you hate you have evil thoughts, even if you don't act on them. If you act on your evil thoughts then you are hating someone with force.Some people hate everyone so intensely they have no feelings at all. Because that's what ultimate hatred is. I had no feelings, once. When I was a child. I would laugh at bad news. I mean, it was really awful. I think MDMA (though it could have been MDA) shocked me back to life. Literally, I went from being full of anger and rage to having laughter and friendship and love and all of my emotions, positive and negative together. I was confused for a long time until cannabis woke me up the rest of the way.
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Comment #270 posted by Hope on August 22, 2006 at 23:17:03 PT

Good night...
and keep looking for something good. Something wonderful. Expect it.There's bound to be some of the other stuff, too...there always is...but keep looking for and expecting the good...the wonderful.
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Comment #269 posted by Hope on August 22, 2006 at 23:14:47 PT

Comment 263
Typo! I meant that I don't want him to be governor OF anything...not or anything.
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Comment #268 posted by Hope on August 22, 2006 at 23:09:33 PT

Thank you, Whig.
You encourage me. We're supposed to inspire and encourage each other and build each other up as much as we can.
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Comment #267 posted by whig on August 22, 2006 at 23:06:59 PT

Hope
Thank you for everything you wrote on Pastor Louie's blog. You were inspirational.
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Comment #266 posted by Hope on August 22, 2006 at 23:06:35 PT

I'm not a linguist, Whig...
but I see what you mean.
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Comment #265 posted by whig on August 22, 2006 at 23:04:21 PT

Hope
Hatred is Evil.Evil is Hatred.

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Comment #264 posted by Hope on August 22, 2006 at 23:02:05 PT

He certainly is...
and you saying "Dad" is very appropriate. I think the Jewish term...and you should know this...Abba is or was equivalent to our term, "Daddy".
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Comment #263 posted by Hope on August 22, 2006 at 23:00:02 PT

Murkowski
I certainly don't hate Gov. Murkowski. I just don't want him to be governor...or anything.
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Comment #262 posted by whig on August 22, 2006 at 22:59:22 PT

Hope #259
He's with us right now. Hi Dad! :)
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Comment #261 posted by whig on August 22, 2006 at 22:58:40 PT

Hope
I'm not free of dislike. I don't think I have to like everyone. I think if you don't like a person you might not want to spend as much time helping or talking with him or her. But that's not hatred, it's not a wish to harm. I also don't think it is evil to defend against an attack or protect your family or friends. It's not hate unless you want to go beyond defending and actively will the person you are fighting to die.I have hated. I have never acted on my darker thoughts. But I have, and I know how it feels. It feels powerful and dangerous and even very sexual. I could have been a demon of a man. But even demons know God and fear Him. Once I knew God I could not be a demon. I became a Christian.
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Comment #260 posted by Hope on August 22, 2006 at 22:58:21 PT

First John 4
19We love because he first loved us. 20If anyone says, "I love God," yet hates his brother, he is a liar. For anyone who does not love his brother, whom he has seen, cannot love God, whom he has not seen. 21And he has given us this command: Whoever loves God must also love his brother.
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Comment #259 posted by Hope on August 22, 2006 at 22:54:28 PT

"God wants to be with his friends..."
Indeed, he does. And not just after we leave this flesh...but right now.
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Comment #258 posted by Hope on August 22, 2006 at 22:53:05 PT

256 is right on too
but I was talking about 254.Even if you don't have the written word...it's written right there in your heart. That was a promise.
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Comment #257 posted by Hope on August 22, 2006 at 22:51:39 PT

Whig
That's EXACTLY right!There's scripture to back up every word you said.It was "written on your heart".
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Comment #256 posted by whig on August 22, 2006 at 22:50:49 PT

Hope
In the end we are all in heaven, together, when hate disappears.
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Comment #255 posted by Hope on August 22, 2006 at 22:50:36 PT

I'm sure some of you are regretting
pulling me out of that funk I was in early on in this thread.
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Comment #254 posted by whig on August 22, 2006 at 22:47:36 PT

Hope
I was just thinking about what it would be like to be "saved" without your friends, and then I think I have a better understanding of heaven. God wants to be with his friends. That is heaven.And we're all his children and we're all part of him and he is part of all of us. So if you hate any one of us you hate God. Don't hate people. Because that is hell.
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Comment #253 posted by Hope on August 22, 2006 at 22:47:04 PT

God himself was in that "body"...
"He made himself a little lower than the angels. He put on a robe of flesh."
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Comment #252 posted by Hope on August 22, 2006 at 22:45:23 PT

There you have it! Why I am the way I am.
A pearl of such great value...that you can't even sell everything you own to buy it!You wouldn't be surprised, I'm sure, at how many people I've shown that have rejected it. All those preachers couldn't have been lying...Ole Joe is bound to be going to hell...They just don't like it.Why a death? Why a sacrifice?"To put an end to all sacrifice." "God was not pleased with the blood of bulls and rams. He prepared a body..."
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Comment #251 posted by Hope on August 22, 2006 at 22:36:22 PT

I'm hoping Murkowski is 
outta there! I hope, hope, hope!
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Comment #250 posted by Hope on August 22, 2006 at 22:34:40 PT

My admonition then is not "Come and be saved"
for you already are! But come. Repent of wrong doing, trust in him, and let him live in you and you in him and get to know him. See him and be with him every day of your life! Don't miss out on that if you can keep from it. But you already are saved..."once for all". Don't wait until you're dead! Do it now!
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Comment #249 posted by Dankhank on August 22, 2006 at 22:30:58 PT

well maybe .,,,,,
or rather is losing ...we can hope ...
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Comment #248 posted by Celaya on August 22, 2006 at 22:30:27 PT

The Condemned Belly-Buttonless
I could be wrong, but I think Gaskin gives a special dispensation to those who have lost their navel. 8^)This whole saved/non-saved nonsense does cause lots of suffering, though. I have a sister who says she agonizes all the time because she thinks my father wasn't "saved."All that angst about nothing!
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Comment #247 posted by Dankhank on August 22, 2006 at 22:28:24 PT

looks like ...
Murkowski lost ...........................================================================http://www.adn.com/
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Comment #246 posted by Hope on August 22, 2006 at 22:26:58 PT

Ah! I fogot to check for those little notations
that can come through as computer codes...but it says the same thing...just some of it is made bold by a bracketed b somewhere.
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Comment #245 posted by Hope on August 22, 2006 at 22:25:24 PT

I used to worry about it almost constantly...
I prayed about it often. Then one time I was sitting up late by myself, watching tv at my son's apartment in Missouri and for some reason I started watching a preacher from Texas preach. I thought that was kind of odd. He preached on "No man comes to the Father except through me." and he talked about how some people believed that that meant that you had to be a Christian to be saved and what about the people that didn't accept Christ? and he admitted...right there on tv that he didn't know the answers and it worried him, too. I studied that scripture carefully. I studied what came before it and what came after it and what it's context and setting was. I prayed for understanding. The Gospel of John Chapter 14. Then I knew! He was comforting the disciples...he was saying in his mysterious way...you know the Father you know me...We are one.John 14
Jesus Comforts His Disciples
 1"Do not let your hearts be troubled. Trust in God[a]; trust also in me. 2In my Father's house are many rooms; if it were not so, I would have told you. I am going there to prepare a place for you. 3And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come back and take you to be with me that you also may be where I am. 4You know the way to the place where I am going."
Jesus the Way to the Father
 5Thomas said to him, "Lord, we don't know where you are going, so how can we know the way?" 6Jesus answered, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me. 7If you really knew me, you would know my Father as well. From now on, you do know him and have seen him." 8Philip said, "Lord, show us the Father and that will be enough for us." 9Jesus answered: "Don't you know me, Philip, even after I have been among you such a long time? Anyone who has seen me has seen the Father. How can you say, 'Show us the Father'? 10Don't you believe that I am in the Father, and that the Father is in me? The words I say to you are not just my own. Rather, it is the Father, living in me, who is doing his work. 11Believe me when I say that I am in the Father and the Father is in me; or at least believe on the evidence of the miracles themselves. 12I tell you the truth, anyone who has faith in me will do what I have been doing. He will do even greater things than these, because I am going to the Father. 13And I will do whatever you ask in my name, so that the Son may bring glory to the Father. 14You may ask me for anything in my name, and I will do it.
Jesus Promises the Holy Spirit
 15"If you love me, you will obey what I command. 16And I will ask the Father, and he will give you another Counselor to be with you forever— 17the Spirit of truth. The world cannot accept him, because it neither sees him nor knows him. But you know him, for he lives with you and will be[c] in you. 18I will not leave you as orphans; I will come to you. 19Before long, the world will not see me anymore, but you will see me. Because I live, you also will live. 20On that day you will realize that I am in my Father, and you are in me, and I am in you. 21Whoever has my commands and obeys them, he is the one who loves me. He who loves me will be loved by my Father, and I too will love him and show myself to him." 22Then Judas (not Judas Iscariot) said, "But, Lord, why do you intend to show yourself to us and not to the world?" 23Jesus replied, "If anyone loves me, he will obey my teaching. My Father will love him, and we will come to him and make our home with him. 24He who does not love me will not obey my teaching. These words you hear are not my own; they belong to the Father who sent me. 25"All this I have spoken while still with you. 26But the Counselor, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, will teach you all things and will remind you of everything I have said to you. 27Peace I leave with you; my peace I give you. I do not give to you as the world gives. Do not let your hearts be troubled and do not be afraid. 28"You heard me say, 'I am going away and I am coming back to you.' If you loved me, you would be glad that I am going to the Father, for the Father is greater than I. 29I have told you now before it happens, so that when it does happen you will believe. 30I will not speak with you much longer, for the prince of this world is coming. He has no hold on me, 31but the world must learn that I love the Father and that I do exactly what my Father has commanded me.
   "Come now; let us leave.I kept praying and then I was listening to my Bible tapes and something caught my attention...and I ran the tape back and I looked in the Bible...I'd heard it maybe fifty or a hundred times, maybe more, and then one day it just jumped out at me...and there it was. My answer!First Timothy chapter 4: 9This is a trustworthy saying that deserves full acceptance 10(and for this we labor and strive), that we have put our hope in the living God, who is the Savior of all men, and especially of those who believe. 11Command and teach these things. ESPECIALLY! Not EXCLUSIVELY...but ESPECIALLY!ESPECIALLY! ESPECIALLY! ESPECIALLY!What a beautiful word!

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Comment #244 posted by Hope on August 22, 2006 at 22:07:50 PT

It really would be, Whig. It really would be.
"Wouldn't it be terrible if you were "saved" but none of your friends were?"
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Comment #243 posted by whig on August 22, 2006 at 21:58:50 PT

Hope
Wouldn't it be terrible if you were "saved" but none of your friends were? I guess that's why so many preachers think they have to save people, so they have someone else to talk to besides God. And God is very cross with them, I'll have you know. All that fire and brimstone they're talking about all the time, oh I know God shows it to them. We make our own heaven.
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Comment #242 posted by Hope on August 22, 2006 at 21:55:28 PT

I'm serious though!
It was surgically removed and closed! I guess you'd have to say they had one once, though.
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Comment #241 posted by FoM on August 22, 2006 at 21:54:19 PT

Whig
Oh my goodness. I looked and I don't have one either! LOL!
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Comment #240 posted by Hope on August 22, 2006 at 21:54:19 PT

Lol!
I knew that was coming! I know someone else who doesn't have a belly button. 
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Comment #239 posted by whig on August 22, 2006 at 21:53:16 PT

Kidding
Just wondered how you'd react.
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Comment #238 posted by whig on August 22, 2006 at 21:52:53 PT

Celaya
But I don't have a belly button.
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Comment #237 posted by Celaya on August 22, 2006 at 21:51:21 PT

Hope
"I'd hate thinking I was the only one "saved". That would make me sad and I believe that it's His will that we have joy."I like Stephen Gaskin's declaration about the religion at The Farm."There's only one religion here, and the only thing you need to belong is a belly button." 8^)
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Comment #236 posted by Hope on August 22, 2006 at 21:47:10 PT

Hempity
I hope he gets better, too. I hope and pray. 
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Comment #235 posted by Hope on August 22, 2006 at 21:45:50 PT

Celaya
I think part of that is an ego thing. Everybody wants to think they're right and if you disagree with them...then you have to be wrong.For me, I've landed in just the right spot for me. "Jesus Christ came to save all men. Especially those who believe."So I've landed on my feet, finally, and after much searching...with a smile on my face. I'm ok and you're ok. Actually, I landed there as a small child. Then as I got older I looked around to see if there might be a better place and after much study and prayer and all that good stuff...I landed right back where I was...only a lot happier about it all."Especially" doesn't mean "exclusively"...as much as some ego bound folk would like to think.Hey, it's "Good News" isn't it? "Good News for all mankind!"
"Goodwill toward men". I like good will...it's good.I like that.Actually, I'd hate thinking I was the only one "saved". That would make me sad and I believe that it's His will that we have joy. Joy. I can't have joy and think I and only a few others are all that are "saved". Yes. I like that "Good will towards men" business. I like it alot.Imagine that we're all light. The part that keeps the flesh alive being more than blood...much more...a light...a part of a really Great Light...and One.And we'll all shine on!
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Comment #234 posted by Celaya on August 22, 2006 at 21:32:05 PT

The "Spiritual" Dilemma
Hope"But he thinks we're in some sort of denial and we don't know what we are saying. He said so. It's a travesty against humanity. The New Inquisition. The "good" (in their own eyes) people are doing it again."They have to think that. Christianity, like many other religions, is an exclusive religion. That is, they have to believe that only they have the truth. That only they know the right path to heaven and to God.  So any other form of spirituality - and I count the Cannabis Culture as a form - has got to be of the devil. Especially cannabis, because it's such a threat to religious hiearchy since you don't need a priest/pastor to "instruct" you how to get there. Just the holy herb.FoM"The mind set of modern day Christians is really big into punishment. Punishment teaches lessons and then you will feel so terrible you'll go to church. It's a vicious cycle to me."Vicious is right. And the centerpiece of the grand punishment scheme is, of course, an eternity in hell. I prefer John Lennon's vision: "Imagine there's no Heaven -- It's easy if you try -- No hell below us -- Above us only sky -- Imagine all the people -- Living for today"DdC -- Good to see you, bud!
Cannabis Spirituality
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Comment #233 posted by FoM on August 22, 2006 at 21:30:56 PT

Hope
I guess I don't understand what the Pastor means. We are to strive for wisdom and wisdom generally means tolerance. Who of us believes exactly the same way as we did when we were a teenager? I know I change continually as life makes changes for me.I hope Hempity gets better. 
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Comment #232 posted by Hope on August 22, 2006 at 21:28:21 PT

Growing and the Marshian Chronicles
We could "grow", too, of course. I hope it's not growing to the point of "Oh...why do we even bother to talk to people like this?":0)
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Comment #231 posted by Hope on August 22, 2006 at 21:21:54 PT

Hempity
That was the "sad" part. I didn't know he was so ill either. But his testimony was brilliant. It was so beautiful. So beautiful. It was a glorious testimony to the power of God...I thought. Of course, Brother Marsh didn't. It's still a beautiful testimony even if Bro. Marsh doesn't appreciate it.Marsh must be wondering how he brought such a thorn in his side upon himself. Maybe he'll grow from our conversations...but I'm not counting on it. You never know though. Maybe he needed to develop a little bit more Godly stance in his dealings with the people he wants to help and that's why we all wound up there.The whole thing is really pretty amazing to my eyes. But then of course...I do try to find the light in things. I hate it when all I can see is darkness...and that darkness wants to creep up on me and fill me sometimes. I've had to deal with it alot...as we all have here.But I so prefer the light and being filled with the light.And as you know...I'm trying to practice that by looking for something wonderful. Looking for something good...and counting on it.But men...ah men. They can be stubborn and I've found that most of the time, it's a mistake to put my confidence in their seeing the light...even when it's brighter than the sun.
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Comment #230 posted by FoM on August 22, 2006 at 21:07:47 PT

Hempity
Hempity is a dear old friend from Cann.com. I read on the link that he isn't doing very well. I know he had a heart attack years ago and I didn't know how he was doing because he hasn't said anything here for us to know.
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Comment #229 posted by FoM on August 22, 2006 at 21:04:00 PT

Hope
I'm sure I wouldn't. I believe people think that I can do more then I can do on CNews. I can work on my FTE web site and change whatever I want to change but not on CNews. It is way more complicated then my personal web site.
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Comment #228 posted by Hope on August 22, 2006 at 21:01:12 PT

The Marshian Chronicles
Hempity has a beautiful and amazing...and a kind of sad, too...post over there.http://marshianchronicles.com/?p=695
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Comment #227 posted by Hope on August 22, 2006 at 20:57:55 PT

Thank you.
I know you won't regret it.
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Comment #226 posted by FoM on August 22, 2006 at 20:53:58 PT

Hope
Yes I meant Matt has to fix it. I can't. This isn't a perfect registration system. Once a person is blocked it probably is forever unless Matt fixes it. I don't ask Matt for favors. I do my best not to bother him. He is busy with his web sites so I only bother him when the web site isn't working right. I have tried to e-mail DdC but it hasn't gone thru. 
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Comment #225 posted by Hope on August 22, 2006 at 20:49:14 PT

"I think I know where I can find him."
I meant DdC...not Matt.That's why I asked the last question.
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Comment #224 posted by Hope on August 22, 2006 at 20:48:06 PT

Maybe I've misunderstood...
You mean has to do some unblocking or something? 
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Comment #223 posted by Hope on August 22, 2006 at 20:40:15 PT

Wonderful!
I think I know where I can find him. 
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Comment #222 posted by FoM on August 22, 2006 at 20:32:38 PT

Hope
If there was a way for that to happen it has been fine for a long time with me but I don't know how. Matt has to fix it. I can't.
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Comment #221 posted by Hope on August 22, 2006 at 20:25:45 PT

Ddc
Oh my, FoM!Does that mean the wayward prodigal son can come home again?I'm in tears to think that might be what you're saying!
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Comment #220 posted by FoM on August 22, 2006 at 20:18:44 PT

afterburner
I have tried more then once to contact DdC but to no avail. I hope he still is reading here. 
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Comment #219 posted by afterburner on August 22, 2006 at 20:15:53 PT

Hope #205 & 208
I concur with you that DdC's post to Pastor Marsh was very thoughtful, expressive, and impressive. Perhaps DdC is still reading here at cnews. If so, thank you DdC for your hard work and dedication to the cause of freeing cannabis lovers from the government-imposed chains."Oh, Lord!" (-Hope) As soon as I read those lines I thought of another Texan, Janis Joplin: "Oh, Lord won't you buy me a Mercedes-Benz. My friends all have Porches. I must make amends." LQI.Somehow, Bob Seger's song, Against the Wind seems to fit the occasion even though Pastor Marsh might object to some of the self-confessed sins in the song. Bob Seger | Against The Wind Lyrics
http://www.lyricsfreak.com/b/bob+seger/against+the+wind_20021964.html
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Comment #218 posted by FoM on August 22, 2006 at 19:47:35 PT

Hope
That's exactly what it is. I hope your son likes his too. It is becoming very popular. I have seen the trees blowing really hard during storms and we can't even hear anything. It's very strong when on a house.http://www.jameshardie.com/homeowner/prodhome/default.php
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Comment #217 posted by Hope on August 22, 2006 at 19:38:34 PT

My son
used it as siding on part of his house, too.
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Comment #216 posted by Hope on August 22, 2006 at 19:37:41 PT

That Hardee board...that's what it's called...
isn't it?...sounds like mighty good stuff. I'm going to look into it if we ever start the work we need to do around here.Hardee Plank?It's concrete infused fiber...right?
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Comment #215 posted by FoM on August 22, 2006 at 19:09:02 PT

Hope
I hope you have a couple of days of steady easy rain. Birds start singing and animals look so content. Fire threats diminish. We have trees close to our house. We are burning the building debris and we had pieces of the siding in the pile to burn. They wouldn't burn. This siding is almost fire proof and we didn't really know that about the siding. Besides being highly eco friendly being fire retardant was also nice to find out.
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Comment #214 posted by Hope on August 22, 2006 at 18:39:53 PT

FoM comment 212
You're right. They've perverted the simplicity...and sweetness and beauty...of the Gospel.The rain is wonderful. We were so excited and grateful.
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Comment #213 posted by FoM on August 22, 2006 at 18:31:52 PT

Hope
That is wonderful news about the rain.
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Comment #212 posted by FoM on August 22, 2006 at 18:30:58 PT

Hope
What more can be done then? The mind set of modern day Christians is really big into punishment. Punishment teaches lessons and then you will feel so terrible you'll go to church. It's a vicious cycle to me. It's a cycle I won't be a part of anymore. I don't need for someone to make me feel bad. That just isn't nice to do to anyone. No one is above another person. No one knows the heart of another person. 
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Comment #211 posted by Hope on August 22, 2006 at 18:27:35 PT

Hey!
We got nearly three inches of rain on the farm this afternoon!
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Comment #210 posted by Hope on August 22, 2006 at 18:16:47 PT

FoM
No, from what he says, I don't think he does understand what we're saying and isn't likely to.You don't have to think it's the right thing to do to consume cannabis...but to make it a crime is going way too far.I don't think he hears that.
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Comment #209 posted by FoM on August 22, 2006 at 18:08:29 PT

Hope
I hope he understands but he might not. That's the way things go sometimes. I sometimes think that an e-mail to a peson could be beneficial because it is private between two people or it should be. 
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Comment #208 posted by Hope on August 22, 2006 at 17:59:45 PT

Denominations
I didn't see one over there either. There are many practitioners today of 
non-denominational Christianity. His is probably one.Celaya, I noticed his comments about "being controled by" and being "warped and twisted" and other stuff.Wild superstition and assumption. It's crazy, I know...but you can't expect him to understand. He's only repeating what he's been told.I suppose Mormon's think that coffee warps and twists and controls you, too. It's sad.If he could only understand that we aren't saying that everyone should use it. We aren't trying to convince him to use it or those in his treatment groups. That's not what we've been trying to say at all. What we are saying is "Stop punishing and hurting people who want or need to use it! Stop it now! Stop it because it's wrong...it's a terrible injustice!"Oh, Lord!But he thinks we're in some sort of denial and we don't know what we are saying. He said so. It's a travesty against humanity. The New Inquisition. The "good" (in their own eyes) people are doing it again.
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Comment #207 posted by FoM on August 22, 2006 at 17:50:52 PT

BGreen
I know you got to tithe on your gross pay check not net. LOL!
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Comment #206 posted by BGreen on August 22, 2006 at 17:46:55 PT

What denomination am I?
I'm a $10,000 bill but they don't make them like me anymore. :-)Seriously FoM, if you haven't given any money to the Assemblies of God in awhile then you are NOT a member anymore. That's the only way they knew we stopped going to their Church. They sent us a letter warning us that our membership was in jeopardy because we had stopped giving them money.For a denomination that preaches that God doesn't need our money, they sure worship the almighty dollar and do everything they can to guilt us into giving all of the money we have to them.The Reverend Bud Green
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Comment #205 posted by Hope on August 22, 2006 at 17:43:31 PT

Whew!
Ddc took the time to lay out a "well set table" over at Brother Marsh's! Whew!Good job, Ddc. Very good job. A lot of time and effort went into your comment.I'm sure he didn't take a word of it seriously...but whew! He got pelted with a whole load of "pearls" there!
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Comment #204 posted by FoM on August 22, 2006 at 17:11:41 PT

whig
I don't think you have a Denomination. Most Pastors are a member of a Denomination. I am a member of the AOG and Roman Catholic Church because I never asked to get out of their membership.
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Comment #203 posted by whig on August 22, 2006 at 17:08:03 PT

FoM
I don't know. What denomination am I? :)
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Comment #202 posted by FoM on August 22, 2006 at 16:45:24 PT

Whig
What Denomination is the Pastor? I looked a little but didn't find anything. Knowing the Denomination helps to understand how he would perceive what people are saying in my opinion.
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Comment #201 posted by whig on August 22, 2006 at 16:28:38 PT

Toker00
I'm glad you shared that and everyone who is so supportive of talking about deeply held religious thoughts. I was going to say "feelings" but that isn't even the right word, because we do not only sense it we know it is real even if we can't always describe what we mean in words sometimes, and even if our ability to understand one another is not always perfect. We are all together here and praying.Without the support and willingness of others to speak, I could not say the things I do. It is important to encourage one another all the time to give testimony and not to repeat what is expected of you but of your own inner knowledge and experience. It's a scary road to walk alone.I'm thinking about this now because up to now I've mostly kept my religious thoughts very private except for here on Cannabis News. In person, and in the presence of some fine herb, communion can be held. We do the same thing here virtually. But out on my own blog, I'm basically speaking to the whole world or anyone who stops by. It's more public and it makes me a little nervous about saying the wrong thing and having nobody correct me or tell me to rethink it.Here's the last exchange I sent to Pastor Marsh and I'm really exposing my beliefs quite openly so I really want some comments to tell me if I'm speaking for anyone but myself:http://cannablog.wordpress.com/2006/08/22/more-talk-with-pastor-marsh/
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Comment #200 posted by FoM on August 22, 2006 at 14:31:54 PT

Toker00
That's very good. They make it very complicated. It really is very simple.
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Comment #199 posted by Toker00 on August 22, 2006 at 14:26:44 PT

I wrote a song about Jesus one time, long ago.
May I post it? It's only one verse. Thanks.Jesus is my Savior 'cause he died for me.Took upon himself my sins so that I might be free.Believe in me is all he asks of us. So put into him all you Faith, your Love and all your Trust.That's it. Bilieve in the Truth. That is all I felt the song needed to say. I hope he liked it.Toke.
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Comment #198 posted by whig on August 22, 2006 at 12:25:03 PT

BGreen
Sometimes we become vessels for God's words.
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Comment #197 posted by Celaya on August 22, 2006 at 12:19:24 PT

Marsh's Chronic
It's difficult to discuss anything with a "believer." A prerequisite for any productive discussion is a willingness by those participating to be moved from their positions if the argument or facts are strong enough. Otherwise, you just have stone walls shouting at each other. I will end my observation of the Marsh position with a quote from his link to where he previously discussed cannabis, where he denotes his essential position."anything that takes control of you, and makes you do or not do things you wouldn’t normally do, is bad and ought to be avoided!"This is simply ignorance speaking of course. And I don't use the word ignorance in a mean sense. Everyone is ignorant of many realms of knowledge. This is why Jimmy Hendrix asked the essential question, "Are you experienced?"Someone who has never smoked pot can never really understand it, and so cannot intelligently talk about it. I remember the first time I tried it, I was very fearful and expected hallucinations, or to lose my mind temporarily, or any number of unknown consequences.But, as with happens with so many first-timers, I was so hyped about what was about to happen, I totally missed it, because the effects were so subtle. I said, "I don't feel anything!" Well, of course, it took me a second time to appreciate it, because I wasn't expecting to fly to the moon then. 8^)Cannabis certainly doesn't control you, or make you do things you wouldn't normally do. The best way to describe its effects are as an enhancement. It enhances our sense of pleasure, creativity, and enjoyment of life's basic activities. As I mentioned before, it seems to return us to our natural human state - so under attack from an oppressive society!If there is anything that "takes control of you, and makes you do things you wouldn't naturally do," it's religion. Cannabis has never made people kill others or otherwise persecute people who didn't believe in cannabis. We all know how guilty religion is of causing this behavior.In sum, the best way for an "inexperienced" person to get some insight about cannabis effects, without actually trying it, is to read the brilliant collection of testimonies put together by Dr. Lester Grinspoon - "Marijuana Uses."
Marijuana Uses
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Comment #196 posted by FoM on August 22, 2006 at 11:51:45 PT

Just Another Comment
I just read that the pastor said that the hippie culture with LSD and Marijuana was going to bring us enlightenment we thought. The truth is that intentions of some are not the intentions of another. We have seen addiction and death from hard drug use. I've said it before but I'll say it again. When Cocaine entered the picture and the hippie culture was squashed that is what wrecked the dream for many. 
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Comment #195 posted by BGreen on August 22, 2006 at 11:48:52 PT

FoM
Yep.The Reverend Bud Green
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Comment #194 posted by FoM on August 22, 2006 at 11:33:13 PT

BGreen
The new age of being able to talk about God is upon us now. The war and religion in the war has made us speak.
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Comment #193 posted by lombar on August 22, 2006 at 11:24:17 PT

Jesus
Was about tolerance, love, and compassion. The drug war is about intolerance, hatred, and merciless persecution. The war on drugs is about as anti christian as one can get. It serves mammon, not God... if the bulk of the mainstream would just realize this TRUTH then the christian support for the continued war on some citizens would be stopped.
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Comment #192 posted by lombar on August 22, 2006 at 11:20:12 PT

Why do the servants of God miss this?
Matthew 15Mark 7
?(they honor me with their lips but their hearts are far from me.)Or do they just believe it only applies to eating pork? There are no provisos, no specifics.Seems to me its written in there somewhere to be mistaken on one point of the 'Law' is to not keep the 'Law'. One either gets it all or does not get it at all...
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Comment #191 posted by BGreen on August 22, 2006 at 11:17:20 PT

We share a stream of consciousness, whig
We think so much alike it's almost scary. It's the same with a few others here at CNews. We are in tune with each other on a plane that exists outside of the normal human experience, at least MY human experience, and God is speaking through us. Many times I don't even have to post because one of you says what I'm thinking in words that could have been my own.I've battled the close-minded "religious" types for too many years to remain patient with them. There's really no excuse for their embracing the proven lies of the government over the Truth that is God, especially when it means the continued torture of innocent, non-violent human beings like my friend runruff, his wife, family and friends, and the millions of others exactly like them.I have no doubts that I'm right. I know in my heart that all of the studying and testing of God's Word in pursuit of the Heart of God has led me to this Truth.When I'm going against the mainstream and risking their threats of "burning in Hell" for rejecting their hateful brand of "christianity," you'd better bet that I've carefully thought this through.For those of you who are offended by our talk of God, just try and remember that the God we talk about is synonymous with Truth, and ultimately that's what we're all searching for.I feel it's necessary to talk about MY Spiritual relationship when MY God is being used as a weapon against me.The Reverend Bud Green
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Comment #190 posted by Hope on August 22, 2006 at 11:04:45 PT

In the swatted one....
I did say "lukewarmness"...that's not even a word anyway...probably.
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Comment #189 posted by lombar on August 22, 2006 at 11:01:55 PT

The pastor
...makes the mistake of trusting government sources about cannabis. NIDA and the DEA are SOOOO discredited to anyone who has ever sought the actual truth that we are not supposed to be able to figure out. He does not realize the true effects of cannabis, does not know what 'stoned' is so he assumes it is like being drunk, ie incoherent, incapable of critical thought.Explain how creating war, victims, hatred and crime, is doing 'Gods work' via prohibition??? The laws are the problem...http://victims.drugwarrant.com
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Comment #188 posted by Hope on August 22, 2006 at 11:00:33 PT

It was...
"Neither hot nor cold..."He won't be spewing any of us out for being tepid or lukewarm.
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Comment #187 posted by FoM on August 22, 2006 at 10:54:28 PT

Hope
I think you lost a comment. I was trying to quick fix something and I didn't fix it fast enough and your post was lost in cyberspace. I thought you would want to know where it went. Sorry about that.
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Comment #186 posted by Hope on August 22, 2006 at 10:50:53 PT

It would be really nice if he could really hear
what we are really saying.He hears "Pot is the answer"....when we are saying "Stop punishing people so cruelly and unusually for using or having a cannabis plant." "Stop the cruelty!" "Stop the injustice!" "Stop the waste!"We're not saying "Spinach is the answer." "Antibiotics are the answer." or "Pot is the answer."Yet he hears something else. That's so strange.If you are trying to hear something on a different level than our words...then you'd be closer to reality if you "heard" what we are really saying as "Love is the answer."
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Comment #185 posted by FoM on August 22, 2006 at 10:49:42 PT

Whig
I think that when a line of communication opens it must be respected. In reality it's hard for people to step outside their comfort zone and they will look for away out if it gets angry and rightfully so. I think as long as anger stays out of the conversation people will remain open to learn. As soon as it becomes angry they can shut the door and say see they have no self control. Those drug users really need to be put away from society. That's why I won't fight with a prohibitionist. I will call the man Pastor out of respect and never talk down to him because who knows what made him think the way he does. We don't know other people unless you spend time talking with them everyday like we do here. I can feel angry vibrations and happy vibrations without seeing anyone of us. So can others.
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Comment #184 posted by whig on August 22, 2006 at 10:47:50 PT

BGreen
You speak so well. I read your #183 and I could see the fire and brimstone from his. You are showing God's wrath to him without even addressing him directly. Beautiful.
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Comment #183 posted by BGreen on August 22, 2006 at 10:42:14 PT

I call them as I see them
This "Pastor" is trying nothing more than to justify the continued caging of God's most glorious creation for consuming another of God's creation.I won't post on his website because it's a Spiritual battle and he is obviously on the opposing side. If God wants to speak to him and get him to change his evil ways then so be it.The Reverend Bud Green
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Comment #182 posted by whig on August 22, 2006 at 10:40:10 PT

On the other hand
Marsh may be reading us talking here, since he was given the link to this thread. And if so, he's welcome.
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Comment #181 posted by Truth on August 22, 2006 at 10:39:34 PT

Dude....
When you make statements such as this...I’m very concerned for those people, as a Pastor I’ve probably visited more people in the hospital, counseled them and their families, done funerals, etc. than all who claim pot is the answer.It shows how out of touch with reality you are. There are literally millions of us that look at cannabis as a positive answer to some of the modern pharmacuticles. Have you made millions of visits to the hospital? Can you speak the truth?God gave us all herb bearing seeds for our benefit. Maybe you could open up a Kool Aid stand and give the benefits to Bush. 
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Comment #180 posted by whig on August 22, 2006 at 10:38:53 PT

Okay
BGreen, don't tell him that. I shouldn't have suggested it.We can have a lot of opinions here about people and they are understood in our context. But when you are addressing someone directly they are going to hear you in their own context.
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Comment #179 posted by whig on August 22, 2006 at 10:35:40 PT

Hope
What did I say to Marsh that was mean?
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Comment #178 posted by FoM on August 22, 2006 at 10:34:40 PT

Hope
Self Control is a remarkable gift. 
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Comment #177 posted by Hope on August 22, 2006 at 10:33:04 PT

The ability to restrain one's self
is really a good thing.
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Comment #176 posted by FoM on August 22, 2006 at 10:31:38 PT

Just a Comment
I don't get involved outside of CNews concerning Cannabis issues. That way I keep my focus here. The point I want to make is that so many people worry about political parties but in reality we need to help bridge the gap between different cultures, opinions, hopes and fears. That is what can change the world. I call it the need to connect the dots or our society will fail in my opinion.
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Comment #175 posted by Hope on August 22, 2006 at 10:31:24 PT

Whig...
You're a snake killer...no doubt. But sometimes in the heat of the moment, I think, you can get downright joyfully mean! Men seem to revel in that sometimes. It must be the testosterone. Don't be mean to the man.
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Comment #174 posted by Hope on August 22, 2006 at 10:29:23 PT

You're going to do what you want to do....
but I wish you wouldn't accuse the man of that.It's a thought that does occur to one...but it's harsh. I think it's too harsh and very unkind. The man's trying.
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Comment #173 posted by Hope on August 22, 2006 at 10:24:51 PT

Marshian Chronicles
Hey Whig...very good...and kind responses to Mr. Marsh's most recent post.I'm glad that didn't get lost in cyberspace!When I lose a comment...I just tell myself it was probably best for reasons I might not have uderstood at that time. I'm counting on guidance...and when a comment gets swatted into cyber-space...I think...ok...maybe I'll try that again...or maybe I won't. Keep on truckin!
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Comment #172 posted by whig on August 22, 2006 at 10:20:21 PT

BGreen
Please tell him that. I mean it.
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Comment #171 posted by whig on August 22, 2006 at 10:19:37 PT

Hope
Colossians 2:16-17 is really on point, isn't it? You are far better at citing scripture than I am. I spend more time trying to understand what is said than in knowing where to find it. In any case, I think you shouldn't give up on Pastor Marsh when you can speak his language so well. Take a look at the replies I made to him this morning.
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Comment #170 posted by BGreen on August 22, 2006 at 10:17:16 PT

"Pastor" Louie serves Satan, NOT God
"Pastor" Louie is a false prophet who is marching down the highway to hell.He rejects the creations of the Lord God while embracing the laws of man. He rejects the Divine for the earthly. He should be removed from his position as a spiritual leader and be replaced by a Spiritual leader who accepts the gifts of the Father with thanksgiving.Pastor Bud AKA The Reverend Bud Green
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Comment #169 posted by Hope on August 22, 2006 at 10:14:41 PT

Worth repeating...for emphasis
20Since you died with Christ to the basic principles of this world, why, as though you still belonged to it, do you submit to its rules: 21"Do not handle! Do not taste! Do not touch!"? 22These are all destined to perish with use, because they are based on human commands and teachings. 23Such regulations indeed have an appearance of wisdom, with their self-imposed worship, their false humility and their harsh treatment of the body, but they lack any value in restraining sensual indulgence.
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Comment #168 posted by Hope on August 22, 2006 at 10:13:23 PT

Toker and Sensemilla
That makes two that we inadvertently didn't post. Maybe that means we've said enough for now to Mr. Marsh. You know...the dead horse and the pearl trampling swine. Of course, I'm not calling Mr. Marsh a "swine". Not at all. It's a parable of how little something of value can mean to a creature that sees no value in it...and that's how it is with sharing your beliefs and facts with someone who doesn't see or is incapable of seeing any value in them. We've done the right thing. We've spoken for the generally defenseless and voiceless. Maybe losing those comments in cyberspace is just an indication that God will take it from here. I perceive that Mr. Marsh loves God and wants to help people and do the right thing, as he sees it. Maybe God has used us to help Pastor Marsh do an even better job of what he feels led to do. If Mr. Marsh doesn't succumb to hatred and self-righteousness or a sense of over-all superiority, that could happen.Collosians 2: 16Therefore do not let anyone judge you by what you eat or drink, or with regard to a religious festival, a New Moon celebration or a Sabbath day. 17These are a shadow of the things that were to come; the reality, however, is found in Christ. 18Do not let anyone who delights in false humility and the worship of angels disqualify you for the prize. Such a person goes into great detail about what he has seen, and his unspiritual mind puffs him up with idle notions. 19He has lost connection with the Head, from whom the whole body, supported and held together by its ligaments and sinews, grows as God causes it to grow. 20Since you died with Christ to the basic principles of this world, why, as though you still belonged to it, do you submit to its rules: 21"Do not handle! Do not taste! Do not touch!"? 22These are all destined to perish with use, because they are based on human commands and teachings. 23Such regulations indeed have an appearance of wisdom, with their self-imposed worship, their false humility and their harsh treatment of the body, but they lack any value in restraining sensual indulgence.
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Comment #167 posted by FoM on August 22, 2006 at 09:54:10 PT

Hope
I'm glad you shared it with a friend. The heat you have been enduring has to be so difficult. When you have any livestock and a drought hits you worrying because of needed water and hay for the winter. I just found this video. I've never seen it before and it is so true. It's called Nothing is Perfect in God's Perfect Plan.http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sfBHbbyD6A8
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Comment #166 posted by whig on August 22, 2006 at 09:51:02 PT

Pastor Louie
He has a new post up "replying" to us:http://marshianchronicles.com/?p=695
cannablog - Peace and love, y'all
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Comment #165 posted by Hope on August 22, 2006 at 09:43:20 PT

FoM...the Working Cowboys video
I shared it with another farm family. They are worried sick about the hay situation and winter coming on. This is the reply she sent me after watching the video."That was amazing. Made me cry. I have seen my husband for 23 years laugh, sing , whistle and CRY, sweat, bleed and CRY more for that land. Thank you for sharing that. I will always keep it. We are going through rough times right now and need any ray of hope we can find"
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Comment #164 posted by Toker00 on August 22, 2006 at 09:41:02 PT

Well guys, you gave it your all.
Some will truly stay blinded by deception until the bitter end. Until he starts realizing that the agencies DEA, CIA, FBI, ABC, etc., do not spell GOD, he will remain deceived Remember pastor, if you are still reading here, even the Saints shall be deceived. If we, lowliest, can realize that we have all been Brainwashed Since Birth by our "Government", and deceived by Satan, why can't you, one who professes to seek GOD, who is TRUTH, realize perhaps you have been deceived by the same? True, it makes for a scarier world, but Jesus instructs us to be Brave. I had a post ready to post there, and somehow I hit a wrong key and caused a fatal error, so it didn't get posted and you guys did such a great job anyway, I didn't re-try. He has another place to post where he has made still another ridiculous attack on God's gift. He also believes that Cannabis is Heroin. I feel grief and sorrow for him, because he has obviously dedicated his life to the Lord, but he needs to understand the consequences of obeying the laws of Man, and disobeying the Laws of God, and the teachings of Christ. It was Man's laws that Jesus broke and it was God's laws which he commanded us to obey. I'm done.Wage peace on war. END CANNABIS PROHIBITION NOW! 
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Comment #163 posted by FoM on August 22, 2006 at 08:07:32 PT

One More Comment
The Pastor believes we have to follow man's laws. I wonder what he thinks about when Jesus didn't honor the Sabbath and preached when he wasn't suppose to. Jesus was always doing something that would irritate the religious leaders of the time. Turning water to wine shows He isn't against a slight altering of ones mind or He wouldn't have done that as His first miracle. Narrow minded thinking is what gets us into the mess we are in I believe.
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Comment #162 posted by FoM on August 22, 2006 at 06:56:18 PT

Hope
I checked out the Pastor's blog this morning. He is doing the same thing that I see people trying to do about hard drugs and cannabis. They put them in the same category. I will not stand with drug legalization because of basically what the Pastor said. Cannabis and Heroin or Meth or Cocaine are not in the same class of substance. There is no physical withdrawal pain from Cannabis but there is from Heroin. As long as people including the Pastor puts them all in the same box will will never make any progress. That's exactly what I believe. Maybe 20 or 30 years down the road society will be able to separate drugs from cannabis in their mind but for now that narrow approach will stumble us.
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Comment #161 posted by afterburner on August 22, 2006 at 06:15:44 PT

CCCaCCCC
Concerned Canadians Complain about Continuing Conservative Cannabis CrackdownCN BC: PUB LTE: Teen Puzzled By Police Action, Nelson Daily News, (16 Aug 2006)
http://www.mapinc.org/newstcl/v06/n1102/a04.html?176
 CN BC: PUB LTE: Dooley Reads Community Wrong, Nelson Daily News, (16 Aug 2006) 
http://www.mapinc.org/newstcl/v06/n1102/a01.html?176CN QU: Canada's Medical Marijuana Program, Hour Magazine, (17 Aug 2006) 
http://www.mapinc.org/newstcl/v06/n1101/a11.html?176
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Comment #160 posted by FoM on August 22, 2006 at 06:15:29 PT

Hope
About the recovery web site when I went into de-tox on my own the only reading material they allowed me to have ( sensory depravation ) was a Bible. I wanted a magazine or anything but a Bible. I threw the Bible against the wall because I had absolutely no interested in God at that time. If God is all a person needs that would be great. It's just not so. Religion is a band-aid for a drug addicted person. If a person finds God and doesn't figure out why they got strung out they will return to the addicting drug I believe. Recovery takes rearranging a persons mind from years of addictive drug use. Religion just doesn't have staying ability. It turns into a seed planted in ground that can't nurture the seed to grow. A person must face what drugs have done to them and get on with life. Strength comes from doing it that way in my opinion.
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Comment #159 posted by afterburner on August 22, 2006 at 06:12:53 PT

Hope #126
RE the p-word.When we use the p-word with affection, humor or mild scolding each other, we own the word and it is not offensive. When prohibitionists use the term disparagingly, it is offensive and hurtful.In the same way black people use the n-word among their friends, but take offense if it is used against them by non-blacks. The gay community has also claimed the q-word for their own use, but take offense when straight people use it as an insult.It's not always what a person says, but sometimes more *how* sHe says it.Love love love. LOve is my savior. God is love.BTW, a book describing a "laughing Jesus" sparked the beginning of my enhanced spiritual understanding and personal relationship with the Lord.
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Comment #158 posted by Dankhank on August 22, 2006 at 04:37:38 PT

morning ...
Hope, you are a font of love and information on Marsh's site. Thank you for your words ...It's early, think I'm gonna catch a couple of hours more sleep.Peace to all the gentle, happy people here ...
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Comment #157 posted by Sinsemilla Jones on August 22, 2006 at 03:25:04 PT

Well, I wrote a real clever message....
then inadvertently hit the reset button, instead of post.Anyways, it was all about cans, pots, heads, and marshes.The creative minds here will probably imagine a better post than I originally wrote, anyhow.Love, bong hits, vap hits, and/or brownies to everybody!
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Comment #156 posted by lombar on August 21, 2006 at 23:24:37 PT

being called pothead
.. would not be so bad if it werent for the getting put in jail part. Sticks and stones may break our bones but names will never hurt us! They use federal laws for that.
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Comment #155 posted by Hope on August 21, 2006 at 22:42:37 PT

Thanks, Whig...that is a sweet thought.
Surely he's smiling on some of his children some of the time.I sure hope so.
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Comment #154 posted by Hope on August 21, 2006 at 22:41:14 PT

Good night, sweet friends....
I've got to get to bed...or I won't have a sense of humor in the morning!It's wonderful going to bed with a smile on my face and in my heart.Thank you.Love really is the good stuff!
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Comment #153 posted by whig on August 21, 2006 at 22:40:58 PT

Hope
Everytime you laugh, God is laughing with you.
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Comment #152 posted by FoM on August 21, 2006 at 22:40:42 PT

God Has A Sense Of Humor
This is my last comment for the night but I wanted to say He must have a sense of humor when He checks us out here! LOL!
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Comment #151 posted by Hope on August 21, 2006 at 22:39:41 PT

Along with all the Love, and Mercy, and Grace...
he'd have to...wouldn't he.I know he does though. I've seen a bit of it...on a truly divine scale.
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Comment #150 posted by Hope on August 21, 2006 at 22:37:36 PT

Lol! Whig.
I've no doubt that God has a sense of humor! 
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Comment #149 posted by Hope on August 21, 2006 at 22:36:35 PT

I haven't checked out his recovery website.
I agree that pelting someone with your "pearls", or forcing them down their throats, is no better than throwing them down to be "trampled". In fact pelting someone with them is a very sorry idea... a waste of pearls and it can drive people from the truth of all that God is.Having pearls thrown at you would be no easier than having rocks thrown at you. That's how I kind of see that kind of do-gooder. Sometimes, with their brand of "love"...the best you can hope for is they don't do the person too much harm or disgrace the "Word"...and maybe ...and I'm sure that sometimes they really do rescue people and comfort and do a lot of people some real good.
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Comment #148 posted by whig on August 21, 2006 at 22:33:22 PT

Hope
I guess you could say I'm a born-again cannabist. But can I say born-again pothead? It's much funnier to me. :)
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Comment #147 posted by Hope on August 21, 2006 at 22:29:15 PT

Every man...and woman's walk with God
is different...and we should never forget that.I'm sorry to not have thought about that. But I was quite sincere when I said what I said about you and he having a different thing going on than he and I...and of course you would...and it's far more serious than I had recalled at the moment. Every relationship with him is serious...but ...you know what I'm trying to say.He's really carried all of us... through so much...but I forgot about your particular trials. Once again, forgive me.
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Comment #146 posted by FoM on August 21, 2006 at 22:26:48 PT

Hope
I read your comments on his blog and you did a fine job of explaining how you feel. I checked out the web site he is involved in about treatment. I really worry when religion is brought into helping someone who needs help with drug addiction. God can help but making it the way to help just isn't good enough. People need help but don't need religion necessarily. Jay Bakker is odd to me but he came from a bizarre background. I have seen him on Larry King and he is like a punk rock type person and appears to be friends with Ozzy. His people on his community forum are young and disillusioned with mainstream churches. He had or has a drug problem and he helps others who are down and out now. He also has been a good son to his extreme but very nice mother.
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Comment #145 posted by Hope on August 21, 2006 at 22:26:34 PT

That's right, Whig.
Oh, I'm sorry. I forgot about that. I forget about your bone disease sometimes and all the horrible times you've been through because of it.Forgive me. I'm so sorry. I forgot that. 
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Comment #144 posted by Hope on August 21, 2006 at 22:24:40 PT

Whether he used it or not...I can't say...
But I know he created it and gave it to us and it's sanctified for many. That's a fact for me.Whig and he have something going on that he (my Lord) and I just haven't gotten around to. I guess I'm not really that concerned about that aspect of it and Whig...and others are...but I do know, for sure, and with all my heart... that he created it and I don't think he created it as a reason to build up the prison and drug re-education business.
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Comment #143 posted by whig on August 21, 2006 at 22:23:36 PT

Hope
God saved my life with cannabis. I was dying. I was going to be dead soon.I was not religious before I used cannabis. God gave cannabis to me. God taught me with cannabis. I learned from God with cannabis. I became a Christian though I was born a Jew, because I took cannabis.Cannabis has that much importance to me.
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Comment #142 posted by Hope on August 21, 2006 at 22:18:23 PT

Lol!
Ok, BGreen...it's an affectionate term to some people. I'll accept that. No "stiff neck" here or "hardened heart" here!
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Comment #141 posted by Hope on August 21, 2006 at 22:16:46 PT

Oh! Lol!
I was worried there for a minute about Bakker getting down on us! Legalizers! Lol! You mean those who are Legalistic...about the Law. They believe you break the Mosaic Law and Christ's work isn't enough...or that if you have accepted Christ legitamately, in their eyes...you couldn't possible slip up and break any aspect of the Mosaic Law. I get it! Whew...that's a relief. We don't need anyone else on our case!I know what you mean about repsecting others beliefs...even if they are way out there as far as I'm concerned. I respect Marsh's right to believe what he wants to believe. If I thought he was a weaker Christian...I wouldn't have talked to him as much about it as I did. I don't want to shake people up who might have problems with their faith. They might not grow...they might just fall...and get all freaked out and miserable...and I don't want to do that to anyone...especially someone who is doing their best as far as their understanding will let them to love God. That too...is between them and God. We're supposed to encourage and build up those who are weak...and everyone else, too, for that matter.I don't believe you can talk with some people about the finer points of your faith and relationship. They can't or won't understand. If they're afraid or weaker...or just babies in the faith...I might make them more fearful or doubtful by talking about something they might not understand or get shook up about. If they are stubborn, willful, self righteous or believe that God wouldn't have any relationship with me or my kind...it would just be wasting "pearls". While Marsh might trample what I believe are "pearls"...he's not likely to have any serious problems over my sharing what I believe with him. He's a big boy. I hope.
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Comment #140 posted by BGreen on August 21, 2006 at 22:07:25 PT

POTHEAD!!!!
For 25 years I've been Mrs. Green's "hippy pothead." It's her pet name for me and I love it. LOLThe Reverend Bud Green
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Comment #139 posted by Hope on August 21, 2006 at 22:01:19 PT

Oh...Whig..
That's between you and God. If you think it's affectionate, than I guess it is to you.Whether he did use cannabis in any way or form, I can't say...but there could come a day when he might say, "You put me in jail for being a pothead."...and they'll say, "When, Lord?"It makes me uncomfortable...but...I still love you, anyway and I don't think God is as easily offended as people are, anyway. If it's ok between you and He...it's what matters, and it's not really any of my business. I don't have many "hang-ups"...and where I would come to your defense...God doesn't need me to come to his defense.I love you and good night.
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Comment #138 posted by whig on August 21, 2006 at 21:26:38 PT

Hope
I wish you wouldn't put it that way.It offends me when someone calls you a "pothead". "Pothead" is a slur and an insult.I'm sorry if I offended you it wasn't my intention. I know pothead is a dirty word to some people but it isn't to me. I can post another update to the blog later on to explain why I use the word. It's affectionate to me. I think it is more challenging to say it that way and it's partly my intention. Let me try to explain a little bit here.I know many people who used cannabis in Pennsylvania, very few of them were potheads. A pothead to me is someone who uses cannabis religiously or every day. I don't want to give the impression I think that cannabis is something that Y'shua used once or twice. What word would you have me use? I could say "cannabist" but most people won't understand that word except other cannabists.But I seriously intended no disrespect whatsoever.
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Comment #137 posted by FoM on August 21, 2006 at 21:23:09 PT

Hope
The word isn't legalizers but something close. The ones that always are critical of everyone about everything. Legalists maybe.
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Comment #136 posted by FoM on August 21, 2006 at 21:21:45 PT

Hope
I get Jay Bakker's newsletter. His mom is getting worse. This young man is getting down with issues about legalizers in the Church or whatever they are called. http://www.vivalarevolution.org/http://www.vivalarevolution.org/newsletter.htm
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Comment #135 posted by FoM on August 21, 2006 at 21:12:17 PT

Dankhank
I have family that are really zealous Christians. They can't be reasoned with when it comes to many areas but they do believe what they believe with all their heart. That's why I show respect for different religious beliefs that have been in our culture for a long time. Weeds is doing a good job in its second season.
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Comment #134 posted by Dankhank on August 21, 2006 at 21:03:17 PT

Nancy's got
serious gastrointestinal distress ...gonna get fun ... and crazy ...------on another note ....I'm not sure if Chris Bennet is correct, but looking at how this world is, I want to believe there is another way. I no longer suffer religious fools ... lightly or otherwise ....I'll joust with the rev until I get tired ...Peace, out ... gonna watch the William Shat hit the fan ...
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Comment #133 posted by FoM on August 21, 2006 at 20:55:20 PT

Hope
I avoid the Jesus and Cannabis link since He isn't here to tell us if it is true or not. I have respect for people who believe Jesus is their God and Savior. I also have respect for dedicated Muslims who believe and love their God. It's just an old fashioned respect thing for me.
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Comment #132 posted by FoM on August 21, 2006 at 20:41:35 PT

freewillks
I saw a scene where Nancy is seeing the DEA agent again but that's all I remember. I was still stunned by the last scene when Nancy got sick and rightfully so.
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Comment #131 posted by freewillks on August 21, 2006 at 20:37:27 PT

DVR cut off preview.
What Happens next week? Help...I'm addicted to weeds...lol

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Comment #130 posted by FoM on August 21, 2006 at 19:51:28 PT

Dankhank
How about: I know you're a drug dealer? Then she gets sick. 
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Comment #129 posted by Dankhank on August 21, 2006 at 19:49:31 PT

yes ........
saw all that, and Advanced Nutrients that Kubby uses.more intense than Cannabis Cup ...amazing ........
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Comment #128 posted by ekim on August 21, 2006 at 19:43:53 PT

your handle is mighty mighty big smoke ol cool one
gee hope 
with wonderful people like these with such inquisitive minds - we as people will weather this storm.for it is being revealed slowly but surely that one reason for much of the hurt felt by man is man made the embargo and sanction of the cannabis plant. as the pain felt will lessen with the lifting of such prohibition for the good will and good health of all.
 
http://cannabisnews.com/news/21/thread21920.shtml
 Lowering of Blood Pressure Through Use of Hashish 
Posted by CN Staff on June 19, 2006 at 09:41:08 PT
By The Hebrew University of Jerusalem 
Source: eMaxHealth.com  Jerusalem -- A new method for lowering blood pressure (hypertension) through use of a compound that synthesizes a cannabis (hashish) plant component has been developed by a pharmacology Ph.D. student at the Hebrew University of Jerusalem School of Pharmacy.
For his work on the cardiovascular activity of cannabinoids (chemical compounds derived from cannabis), Yehoshua Maor was one of the winners of this year's Kaye Innovation Awards, presented on June 13 during the Hebrew University of Jerusalem's 69th meeting of the Board of Governors. Cardiovascular disease (CVD) accounts for about one-third of all deaths in industrialized countries, and is the leading reason for visits there to physicians as well as for drug prescriptions. However, not all patients respond well to the drugs available. There is no "ideal' hypotensive (blood pressure lowering) drug.The cannabis plant - also known as hashish or marijuana – through its chemical compounds - cannabinoids - has been shown to have a beneficial, hypotensive effect. However, a drawback in the therapeutic use of cannabinoids has been its undesirable psychotropic properties - production of hallucinatory effects. Attempts to separate the hypotensive action from the psychotropic properties of cannabinoids have achieved only partial success until now.Working under the supervision of Prof. Raphael Mechoulam at the Hebrew University School of Pharmacy, Maor, who was born in Brazil and immigrated to Israel in 1998, has created a synthetic version of a minor cannabis constituent named cannabigerol, which is devoid of psychotropic activity.In laboratory experiments with rats in collaboration with Prof. Michal Horowitz of the Department of Environmental Physiology, it was found that this novel compound reduced blood pressure when administered to the rats in relatively low doses. Additional testing also showed that the compound also brought about another beneficial effect - relaxation of the blood vessels. A further beneficial property observed in work carried out with Prof. Ruth Gallily of the Lautenberg Center for General and Tumor Immunology, was that the compounds produced an anti-inflammatory response.Maor believes that these qualities have the potential for development of a valuable new clinical drug with a major market potential, especially for patients suffering from inflammation of the blood vessels as the result of hypertension, and others with metabolic irregularities.Maor already has won international recognition for his work with cannabanoids, resulting from his collaborative work with Garry Milman, another Ph.D. student in the laboratory of Prof. Mechoulam, for the discovery of an endogenous compound found in the brain which causes vaso-relaxation.Maor begin a post-doctoral fellowship in the fall at the Harvard University Medical School, where he plans to continue his research.Quote: "A new method for lowering blood pressure (hypertension) through use of a compound that synthesizes a cannabis (hashish) plant component has been developed." Complete Title: Lowering of Blood Pressure Achieved Through Use of Hashish-Like Drug Source: eMaxHealth.com (Web)
Published: June 19, 2006
Copyright: 2006 eMaxHealth.com
 
http://www.saferniles.org
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Comment #127 posted by FoM on August 21, 2006 at 19:32:49 PT

Weeds: NORML, MPP, High Times and CC Too!
Did you see their banners? 
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Comment #126 posted by Hope on August 21, 2006 at 19:27:28 PT

Well, Whig...
I wish you wouldn't put it that way. It offends me when someone calls you a "pothead". "Pothead" is a slur and an insult.
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Comment #125 posted by whig on August 21, 2006 at 19:14:13 PT

Jesus was a pothead
I posted about this on my blog too:http://cannablog.wordpress.com/2006/08/21/jesus-was-a-pothead/
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Comment #124 posted by Dankhank on August 21, 2006 at 19:01:54 PT

Weeds
now

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Comment #123 posted by freewillks on August 21, 2006 at 18:59:32 PT

News
To: State Desk Contact: Patrick Goggin, 415-312-0084; Tom Murphy, 207-542-4998; Adam Eidinger, 202-744-2671SACRAMENTO, Calif., Aug. 21 /U.S. Newswire/ -- AB 1147, The California Industrial Hemp Farming Act, passed its final vote in the Assembly today by a bipartisan vote of 43-28. The bill now heads to Governor    Arnold Schwarzenegger's desk for his signature. Since passing out of the Assembly in January of this year, AB 1147 has gained momentum as legislators learned that California businesses spend millions of dollars each year importing hemp from Canada, China and Europe. Demand for hemp products such as clothing, food, body care, paper and even auto parts has been growing rapidly in recent years, with the U.S. hemp market now exceeding an estimated $270 million in annual retail sales. The new law would give farmers the ability to legally supply U.S. manufacturers with hemp seed, oil and fiber and would not weaken anti-drug laws."We thank legislators from both parties that listened to the facts about industrial hemp and made an historic decision to bring back the crop," says Vote Hemp President Eric Steenstra. "Passage in the California Legislature is a major accomplishment for the authors and sponsors of the bill, as well as for thousands of environmentally-conscious voters, farmers and businesses who wrote California legislators," says Steenstra.The California Industrial Hemp Farming Act was introduced in February of 2005 by Democratic Assemblyman Mark Leno. This year, the bill was amended, and Republican Assemblyman Chuck Devore joined as co-author. In the bipartisan spirit of the legislation, the bill was managed on the floor of the Senate by Republican Tom McClintock and received support from Senator Abel Maldonado, a farmer and Republican member of the Senate Agriculture Committee. Another influential Republican Senator who supported the bill was Sam Aanestad, Vice Chair of the Senate Appropriations Committee. The support of Democratic Assemblymember Barbara Matthews, Chair of the Assembly Agriculture Committee, also was key to the bill's passage.AB 1147 has been carefully crafted to comply with federal law and minimize impact to law enforcement. It includes tough regulations without placing an undue burden on farmers. The bill permits cultivation of only ultra-low-THC industrial hemp grown as an agricultural field crop or in a research setting. Backyard or horticultural cultivation is prohibited. Any clandestine grove of Cannabis will be considered a controlled substance regardless of its THC content.Vote Hemp believes the new law would withstand federal scrutiny in the form of legal challenges and ultimately will result in commercial hemp farming in California. No industrial hemp is grown in the United States today, even though seven states have passed hemp farming and research bills in recent years. More details on industrial hemp legislation can be found at http://www.VoteHemp.com.Final passage of AB 1147 could revitalize commercial industrial hemp farming, which occurred in California until shortly after World War II. "It appears the hemp seed and oil we currently import soon will be grown and produced right here in California," says David Bronner, Chair of the Hemp Industries Association's (HIA) Food and Oil Committee and President of ALPSNACK/Dr. Bronner's Magic Soaps. "The HIA's member companies are urging Governor Schwarzenegger to support California's farmers and natural products industry by signing the industrial hemp bill. Double-digit sales growth over the last few years in the hemp food and body care sectors indicates strong consumer demand for hemp products that will sustain high prices for farmers for years to come," he adds.More information about hemp legislation and the crop's many uses can be found at http://www.VoteHemp.com. BETA SP and DVD Video News Release featuring footage of hemp farming in other countries is available upon request by contacting Adam Eidinger at 202-744-2671.http://www.usnewswire.com/
http://www.usnewswire.com/
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Comment #122 posted by whig on August 21, 2006 at 18:57:38 PT

Hope #71
That was powerful testimony, Hope.Powerful testimony.
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Comment #121 posted by mayan on August 21, 2006 at 18:26:41 PT

See The Light
I just sent the pastor a link of the 9/11 American Scholars Symposium video. The presiding Archbishop of the United Catholic Church, Robert Bowman, is a featured speaker. Maybe the good pastor will see the light. Here's some exciting news...Former WTC janitor William Rodriguez migh make a movie with Charlie Sheen and Esai Morales! New Movie Focused on William Rodriguez in the Works?
http://www.911blogger.com/v2/node/2199FACT: Osama bin Laden has NOT been indicted for his involvement in 9/11:
http://www.teamliberty.net/id290.html9/11 WAS AN INSIDE JOB - OUR NATION IS IN PERIL:
http://www.911sharethetruth.com/
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Comment #120 posted by global_warming on August 21, 2006 at 16:44:19 PT

if you are breathing
you have a bone,you can take another breathyou can look aroundsee all the hungrysee around this world
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Comment #119 posted by global_warming on August 21, 2006 at 16:36:38 PT

What do you have?
Do you have money?dO YOU HAVE Power?Do you have a spiritual revelation?Come Home..
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Comment #118 posted by global_warming on August 21, 2006 at 16:18:06 PT

re: That's a chance I just have to take to save 
That's a chance I just have to take to save the Country I love.You can trade all your baseball cards bg, tell me again, have you a handfull of this misery, drug wars, men and women who are caged for this useless disgrace called the war on drugs, how many good human beings are caught up in this craziness, how many good people cannot absolve their allegiance with the corporate disgrace, how many more good people, must be subjected to this immoral disgrace, how long can this disgrace continue?
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Comment #117 posted by FoM on August 21, 2006 at 16:03:28 PT

Neil's Safety
Yes, I have been praying for his safety and CSN too. God Bless him and them for this album and tour.
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Comment #116 posted by BGreen on August 21, 2006 at 16:03:13 PT

The people who stood up against Hitler
They were just like us. They were outnumbered and considered traitors, but their resolve and ingenuity allowed them to prevail, and now they are honored as heroes in Museums and Memorials throughout Europe.It's a well-known fact that hit squads are already at work here and abroad. That's a chance I just have to take to save the Country I love.The Reverend Bud Green
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Comment #115 posted by FoM on August 21, 2006 at 16:01:29 PT

This Years Top Party School: U of Texas-Austin
U of Texas-Austin Tops Annual List of Nation's Best Party Schoolshttp://www.duluthsuperior.com/mld/duluthsuperior/news/politics/15326830.htmHope, I don't know if it can get that bad because of the Internet. The Internet has taught us so much. Even if the Internet went down we have learned what we needed to learn.
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Comment #114 posted by global_warming on August 21, 2006 at 15:59:44 PT

hey Hope
You were never alone and you have such power, the wind, the sun, the darkest moments are before the New Dawn.Rise to Your Glory and Ride The Tempest, for it was always You who could see, and stand up for that man on that awful cross.
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Comment #113 posted by Hope on August 21, 2006 at 15:59:03 PT

Please be careful friends.
I've come to realize that some of them really do hate us and our ideas that badly. We need to pray for Neil's safety, too.
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Comment #112 posted by Hope on August 21, 2006 at 15:55:25 PT

I heard a program last night that someone else
was watching. It was about Hitler's Werewolves. I'd never heard of them before. They would creep into villages at night and kill men and women who disagree with the Nazi Pogroms. When I see the hatred that some people are feeling about this war and Bush and his strageties, I can't help but fear that we may may one day see Bush Werewolves prowling the night. Lord knows, I hope not. But there are so many of them and so few of us and what is happening now parallels way too many things that were happening in Germany in those days.Werewolves. Real ones. I'd never heard of them before last night.They called themselves Werewolves to please Hitler, because Hitler had a thing for wolves. He really admired them. Even his dog was named Wolf.
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Comment #111 posted by BGreen on August 21, 2006 at 15:33:39 PT

I'm sorry, Hope
I don't understand how anybody could still support the commander in chimp knowing all we do at this stage of the game, but I do understand your predicament.I'm sorry you have to deal with this so personally.The Reverend Bud Green
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Comment #110 posted by Hope on August 21, 2006 at 15:24:13 PT

Had Enough
Thanks. It's so good to know that a few people understand where I'm coming from. I didn't know if it was well said or not...I was in a rush to leave to go to town and was afraid I might have not done a very good job of saying how I felt. I'm scared of bulls when I'm not on horseback...and I have that feeling around here of "being surrounded by the bulls of Bashan". 
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Comment #109 posted by FoM on August 21, 2006 at 15:17:19 PT

Hope
When you listen to it listen closely to Families. I love that song. It's a dead soldier singing his wishes to his Family. Families When you try to bring our spirit homeWon't you celebrate our livesIn a way that's right for our childrenand familiesWhen you write your songs about usWon't you try to do us justiceBecause we want to be just like youand your familiesI see a light aheadThere's a chill wind blowin' in my headI wish that I was home insteadwith my familyThere's a universe between us nowBut I want to reach out and tell you howmuch you mean to meand my familyI'm goin' back to the USAI just got my ticket todayI can't wait to see you againin the USA.He got his ticket today broke me up when I first heard it.
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Comment #108 posted by Hope on August 21, 2006 at 15:08:27 PT

Brrrrr...
But I'll listen to it tomorrow, when I know I won't be offending anyone that might lose their cool. :0("Blessed is the peacemaker."

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Comment #107 posted by FoM on August 21, 2006 at 15:04:59 PT

Hope
I'm sorry. I hope you get to really listen to it sometime and absorb the message. This is a political album like nothing that Neil has made before I think. He's angry but he said he is more sad.
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Comment #106 posted by Hope on August 21, 2006 at 15:00:26 PT

It's a fact....
after listening to the first song, After the Garden is Gone, I'm going to have to be very careful when and where I play this. I'm not kidding.In fact...I'm going to have to wait till I go to the farm to play it. I'm that worried about it. :0(It's political and I'm afraid someone will hear me play it...and I don't feel up to the fight. It's sad. I know...but them's the facts, ma'm.My hearts thumping and I've just heard two songs.
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Comment #105 posted by FoM on August 21, 2006 at 14:59:29 PT

Hope
That's great. Here are the lyrics if you want to read them while you listen to LWW. It is raw and full of I don't know what but I love it.http://www.freedomtoexhale.com/lww.htm
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Comment #104 posted by FoM on August 21, 2006 at 14:57:15 PT

Hope
I don't understand their mindset. I am not right on everything I believe. If I am wrong I will learn and change how I think. If an issue isn't important to me I usually won't remember it but if it is important to me I won't forget it. I wish they were that way. Who are we to think we can't be wrong?
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Comment #103 posted by Hope on August 21, 2006 at 14:49:32 PT

Just went out and bought LWW...Finally.
Fixing to play it.
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Comment #102 posted by FoM on August 21, 2006 at 14:49:17 PT

Dankhank
Thank you I turned it on. Tonight is Weeds too. I hope I can find at least one article to post for today. This is the slowest time of the year I think. It's a good time for a concert. I won't feel guilty about being away a little.Cooking With JesusWritten by: Jenji KohanDirected by: Craig ZiskNancy breaks it off with Peter and gets on with her grow house. Nancy, Andy, and Doug attend a marijuana convention to shop for a start-up plant for the new business. Megan's acceptance to Princeton causes Silas to make a rash decision. http://www.sho.com/site/weeds/episodes.do
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Comment #101 posted by Hope on August 21, 2006 at 14:48:11 PT

FoM comment 79
I agree. So true. 
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Comment #100 posted by Dankhank on August 21, 2006 at 14:39:34 PT

Sundance ...
on now, an amazing movie about Townes Van Zand.American musician ...
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Comment #99 posted by FoM on August 21, 2006 at 14:35:50 PT

Dankhank
If you can come it would be great. If you can't I sure understand. Maybe we will have our house totally done by next year and will be able to have more people and just have a good time if it doesn't work out. We have two more rooms to do and one for the first time. We will be done working around here with building by the last concert. I won't miss the dry wall dirt. 
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Comment #98 posted by Dankhank on August 21, 2006 at 14:28:00 PT

thought so ...
still gotta check with my honey, got a lotta stuff going on these next few weeks ...
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Comment #97 posted by FoM on August 21, 2006 at 14:20:07 PT

Celaya
They taped 3 nights at Red Rocks. It will be released before Christmas I read in one of the interviews from the tour.
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Comment #96 posted by Celaya on August 21, 2006 at 14:11:38 PT

FoM
Yes. I saw the Neil Young interview. That was great! Thanks.  I sure wish they were playing near me! I hope they do a long movie of the tour!
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Comment #95 posted by Had Enough on August 21, 2006 at 14:05:26 PT

Amen Sister Hope
Hope #71“People are so touchy and full of hatred now, I'm scared to say anything to anybody about anything. I certainly won't argue about what Kaneh Bosm was or wasn't. I suspect it could be cannabis...but I don't think Jesus rolled a "fatty". Where'd he get the Zig Zags? I believe sincerely that He created it as a gift for mankind. He wouldn't condemn anyone for using it. I don't believe there's a fourteenth commandment that says "Don't use cannabis!"”“I believe that all our veterans since the Revolution fought, and suffered, and many died, to protect our rights. I feel so strongly that such a high price was paid to protect those rights that's it's a huge insult to those who paid that price to even think about giving even one of them up easily. I treasure them and I treasure the Constitution and I'm very grateful to all those who fought to defend and preserve it.”“Yes, obviously some of them do hate and want to kill us. Their god is a god of hate and death and exclusion. Mine's not. My God is different. He's about Love. (There's that scary word again.)
 There's blood thirst, hatred, and anger everywhere I turn. It's the world. I'm in it...but not of it. I want to follow the teachings of Christ, even when it's difficult...but it's so hard.
 
We were warned the world would hate us because of our Christianity. I was so niave when I first heard that. I just didn't see how it could be that people could hate people for being gentle, kind, and loving...but...wow...was I wrong.”Hope #74“and willingly giving up my rights and my childrens rights to be free of an oppressive government to buy a false sense of security? No way! My grandfathers who fought for those rights, including the right to protect my family, friends, and myself would roll over in their graves. It's really sad.
 
For many people the terrorists did win completely that awful day in September.
 
Once brave men and women are running over themselves to burn the Constitution, hoping it will give them more security from the Beast. The Beast in in the room with them, I fear. In their hearts even.”Very well said!!!

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Comment #94 posted by FoM on August 21, 2006 at 14:01:45 PT

Dankhank
You got mail.
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Comment #93 posted by FoM on August 21, 2006 at 13:46:52 PT

Dankhank
It's the last venue in the tour. It should be quite remarkable. We are going on the 29th on Tuesday next week too.Last Concert: Sunday, 09/10/2006 Burgettstown, PA (Pittsburgh): Post-Gazette Pavilion 
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Comment #92 posted by FoM on August 21, 2006 at 13:43:37 PT

DankHank
I don't know what I am going to do with the extra tickets. Would you and your wife want to come to our place and go with us? Afterburner is coming down from Canada.
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Comment #91 posted by Dankhank on August 21, 2006 at 13:40:58 PT:

CSNY
FoM ...sorry TokerOO won't be able to make it ...hate to sound like a vulture or something ... but ...Whatcha gonna do with the extra tickets ...?what day is the show?I lost your email address ...
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Comment #90 posted by FoM on August 21, 2006 at 13:18:24 PT

Celaya
If you didn't see the video from ABC News if you have a good connection you really should check it out. I hope after the tour is over that CSNY takes a break and comes back and goes for it again next year and maybe even 08. Maybe Neil will have written another album by 08 though. What a time we live in.http://abcnews.go.com/Video/playerIndex?id=2335507
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Comment #89 posted by FoM on August 21, 2006 at 13:06:05 PT

Celaya
I know what you are saying. I feel sorry for people who are in that frame of mind. They miss so much of life and God's creation.
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Comment #88 posted by Celaya on August 21, 2006 at 13:03:41 PT

The song goes...
"I got stoned and I missed it."It should go, "I got saved and I missed it." 8^)
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Comment #87 posted by FoM on August 21, 2006 at 13:00:37 PT

 Celaya 
When we have a formed opinion based on religious belief we will hope and pray that it keeps moving on towards the belief we have. That isn't what people should be doing. Sometimes Christians can be so heavenly minded that they aren't any earthly good. I know I've seen it all.
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Comment #86 posted by Celaya on August 21, 2006 at 12:55:55 PT

FoM

It seems that most people who believe in Armageddon are practicing wish fulfillment - like they desperately need this to happen to confirm the belief they're so heavily invested in.Whew! I attended an Assembly of God service once. When they started speaking in tongues, it seemed like a form of self-induced madness! We got out of there as quickly as possible. Scary!We should never give up, of course. As long as we keep the light burning, there's hope the mesmerized populace will see it and snap out of their war hysteria.
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Comment #85 posted by ekim on August 21, 2006 at 12:52:36 PT

Second International Conference On Future Energy
Second International Conference On Future Energy
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“Technology transformation by the uncovering of new energy sources is a dominant global issue” 
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September 22-24, 2006
 Friday evening, Saturday and Sunday 
 
 
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 Emerging energy, field propulsion, fission & fusion, space tech, energy medicine, tidal, hydrogen, solar power, magnetic motor, zero-point energy 
 
 Invited Speakers: Woody Harrelson (actor and environmental activist), Mike Weiner (Biophan), Victoria Peters (Homestead Hydrogen), Dr. Paul Murad (space technology), Bob Lazar (alternative energy), Evgeny Podkletnov (Impulse Gravity Generator), 
Confirmed Speakers: Dr. George Miley (plasma fusion), David Goodwin (USDOE fission and fusion), ), Paul Koloc (focus fusion), Russ George (D2Fusion), Fabrizio Pinto (Interstellar Tech Corp. quantum energy devices), Jim Dunn (NASA's Center for Tech Commercialization), Martin Burger (Tidal Power), Dr. Glen Gordon (EM Probe therapy), Dr. Tania Slawecki (Penn State Electrotherapy Research), John Thomas (Searl Effect Generator), Pal Asija (alternative energy patents), Dr. Tom Valone (zero-point energy), Dr. Ted Loder (spiral magnetostatic motor), and a Wind Energy Association update presentation.> Click for the Draft Program Schedule as of August 21, 2006.
 
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Biomass and Solar Technologies Lauded
 http://www.nrel.gov/news/press/2004/3404_technologies_lauded.html
 Monday, July 12, 2004Golden, Colo. - Two technologies developed by the U.S. Department of
Energy's National Renewable Energy Laboratory are among this year's most
significant innovations, as judged by Research & Development (R&D) Magazine.The Laboratory's two R&D 100 Awards for 2004 are for an innovative,
lower-cost method for transforming plant material into the sugars that can
be used to make fuels and chemicals, and a thin-film solar cell that
produces electricity directly from sunlight, which has greater efficiency,
and is lighter weight and more flexible than previous devices.This year's announcement brings to 37 the number of R&D 100 Awards garnered
by NREL."Once again, the technologies developed by our Laboratory's researchers are
being acknowledged for their importance to the nation," said Stan Bull, NREL
associate director for science and technology. "It's particularly gratifying
that the R&D 100 Awards this year include two NREL technologies that can
enhance our nation's energy security and reduce our reliance on foreign
sources of oil."The Enzymatic Hydrolysis of Biomass Cellulose to Sugars technology is
expected to allow a wide range of biomass resources to be used to produce
energy and chemicals. It is an important step toward realizing the potential
of bio-refineries-in which plant and waste materials are used to produce an
array of fuels and chemicals, analogous to an oil refinery today.Through this technology, the cost of converting cellulosic biomass into
usable sugars can be reduced by more than 20 times per gallon of ethanol
produced.The award is shared by NREL, Genencor International and Novozymes Biotech,
Inc. NREL researchers who worked on this project included Michael Himmel,
Jim McMillan, Dan Schell, Jody Farmer, Nancy Dowe and Rafael Nieves.Also recognized for 2004 are light and flexible thin-film copper indium
gallium diselenide (CIGS) photovoltaic modules, which can be manufactured in
various sizes and have a compact, foldable design that allows for easy
deployment, transport and storage.As a result, the modules have twice the power-to-weight ratio, and three
times the power-to-size ratio as competing products. Because of this, they
are especially suited for military applications, portable power for consumer
and public use, boating and other marine applications and building-related
uses, such as for bus shelters and in PV-integrated roofing.The award is shared by NREL, Global Solar Energy and ITN Energy Systems.
NREL researchers who worked on this project included Harin Ullal, Ken
Zweibel and Bolko von Roedern.NREL is the U.S. Department of Energy's premier laboratory for renewable
energy research and development and a leading laboratory for energy
efficiency R&D. NREL is operated for DOE by Midwest Research Institute and
Battelle.For further information contact NREL Public Affairs at (303) 275-4090.NR-3404
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Comment #84 posted by FoM on August 21, 2006 at 12:24:23 PT

Celaya
I didn't see your post but I will look again. I don't see the minister as hateful but I think he believes that we are headed toward Armageddon and bases his feelings on religion. I was an Assembly of God member. I know what fundamentalists believe. I do believe this could be it for the world. I refuse to lose hope that we can turn it around though. As soon as we give up and say what's the use we will be doomed. We will make prophecy come true.
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Comment #83 posted by Celaya on August 21, 2006 at 11:57:55 PT

FoM
"I can't imagine anyone that is paying attention to what the Bush Administration has done to us and the whole world who couldn't use a little therapy. Cannabis is used in Israel to help with trauma from war."You've touched on one of my pet theories about cannabis. I intuitively feel that cannabis returns us to our natural state as human beings. The last few hundred years have piled so many artificial and malign pyschic constructs on our consciousness that we have forgotten what is like to be really human.I can imagine the world as it was, where there was a natural joy in performing the basic tasks of obtaining food, clothing and shelter, enjoying family and friends, and being one with nature. Sound familiar?We need it today more than ever!(I added a post at Marsh's Chronic - under John Thomas) 

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Comment #82 posted by FoM on August 21, 2006 at 11:51:53 PT

The American Voting System: HACKED
I went to LWW Today and this is at the top of the page. We need a paper trail.http://www.neilyoung.com/lwwtoday/index.htmlhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FhMUtzOxjJY
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Comment #81 posted by FoM on August 21, 2006 at 11:30:46 PT

One More Thing
This isn't one war but two wars. It's a fundamental war of religions and who is right and those who could care less but are trying to captalize on the frenzy of war. People really aren't important to the powers that be.
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Comment #80 posted by FoM on August 21, 2006 at 11:27:36 PT

Hope
Jesus was called the Prince of Peace. I wonder how He would feel about the chaos that they have created.
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Comment #79 posted by FoM on August 21, 2006 at 11:24:21 PT

Hope
These are very scary times. I believe in reason. I believe that our current leaders need to get a handle on self righteousness that seems to rule the Republican Party currently. When anyone says anything about their policies they become an instant enemy. I have never seen so much hate in my life. It reminds me of a frenzied reaction and constant justification for how killing everyone because they are against our religious beliefs is why I don't believe in religion in politics. They just won't mix. They are like oil and water.
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Comment #78 posted by Hope on August 21, 2006 at 11:22:36 PT

Watching
every minute...to see His works. In the midst of all this horror and fear...I'm still looking to Him and I'm still going to stay on the path that His teachings laid out for us. I'm sure I haven't got the faith of Daniel in the lions' den or of Shaddrach, Meschach, and Abedneggo in the fire...but I've got a measure of faith and trust. I believe He's real and cares. Where there's love and mercy...He's there. My part is to love and trust and have mercy. It's not easy...but that's what I'm bound to. I hope and pray that I don't deny Him and His Power. I saw it done just a few days ago. It was awful. I hope I'm able to stand my ground...even to the death, if I have to...if the time comes.My knees will probably knock...but maybe, and I hope that He does, the God of Love will steady me and help me stand.
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Comment #77 posted by Hope on August 21, 2006 at 11:13:24 PT

These times are trying our faith
in ways that I never could have imagined.I have to trust God and His power. I'm scared. I won't lie. But I'm clinging to the Lord and counting on Him. 
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Comment #76 posted by Hope on August 21, 2006 at 11:08:03 PT

"politics is a religion to some people"
That's the truth!
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Comment #75 posted by FoM on August 21, 2006 at 11:06:17 PT

Hope
I remember Bin Laden saying right after 9/11 that we won't have to do anything else to your country. 
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Comment #74 posted by Hope on August 21, 2006 at 11:02:20 PT

And whittling away at the Constitution
and willingly giving up my rights and my childrens rights to be free of an oppressive government to buy a false sense of security? No way! My grandfathers who fought for those rights, including the right to protect my family, friends, and myself would roll over in their graves.It's really sad. For many people the terrorists did win completely that awful day in September. Once brave men and women are running over themselves to burn the Constitution, hoping it will give them more security from the Beast. The Beast in in the room with them, I fear. In their hearts even.
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Comment #73 posted by FoM on August 21, 2006 at 11:01:09 PT

Hope
I'm really sorry that that person jumped on you. I had that happen to me not to many months ago. I am very middle of the road on my beliefs. I don't believe in sensationalism just absolute facts. I don't hate but feel sorry for people who really do hate other people and particularly over politics. It's like politics is a religion to some people. I keep my thoughts mostly to myself. Republicans call people who don't want war on people here and around the world as weak and I believe it takes more strength to not fight then to fight. 
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Comment #72 posted by Hope on August 21, 2006 at 10:56:11 PT

FoM
You know I'm no wimp. I'd fight like a mama bear to protect my children and grandchildren. I'd fight the proverbial "circle saw"...but I still think it's inappropriate, as a Christian, for me to take up a weapon and go try to wipe out all the relatives and neighbors of even a real killer. Going after a killer is one thing...going after everyone he's related to or knows is something else entirely.
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Comment #71 posted by Hope on August 21, 2006 at 10:51:55 PT

FoM
Sarcasm is a pointed stick. The pointed stick poked some sore spots...as I assume it was meant to.I think God made the plant and it isn't a sin to use it. I do believe it's a sin to persecute, imprison, and kill people over it...or even judge them over it, as in judging that they need to be "re-educated" about it.People are so touchy and full of hatred now, I'm scared to say anything to anybody about anything. I certainly won't argue about what Kaneh Bosm was or wasn't. I suspect it could be cannabis...but I don't think Jesus rolled a "fatty". Where'd he get the Zig Zags? I believe sincerely that He created it as a gift for mankind. He wouldn't condemn anyone for using it. I don't believe there's a fourteenth commandment that says "Don't use cannabis!" The only time it would be wrong...in my eyes...is when use of it in the presence of someone who did believe it was a sin, might cause that weaker brother or sister to stumble...and that would be wrong. I believe it's a very good and amazing plant...but I know that there are those who are weaker and are scared to death of it. I wouldn't dream of "scaring" them with it.Last week, because I thought the Judge who ruled against the warrantless wiretaps did the right thing in protecting the Constitution, I got all kinds of hell brought down on my head. It was absolutely apocalyptic!I believe that all our veterans since the Revolution fought, and suffered, and many died, to protect our rights. I feel so strongly that such a high price was paid to protect those rights that's it's a huge insult to those who paid that price to even think about giving even one of them up easily. I treasure them and I treasure the Constitution and I'm very grateful to all those who fought to defend and preserve it. Apparently the one man that got so crazy about the ruling was looking for someone to pounce on about it. I didnt' see it coming. They walked up to me and brought it up. "What do you think about that ruling?" All I said was that I thought it was a good ruling and I didn't want to give my blood bought rights up for a false sense of security.In less than five minutes, that person told me that they'd LIKE to see some "towel heads" get a hold of me! One minute they're saying it was all to protect me...the next they would LIKE to see me fall into the hands of terrorists?But it didn't end there. There was screaming about "towel heads" could blow up my grandchildren's school! They asked "Would I like that?" Of course, by this time, I knew there was something going on besides a conversation...so I didn't say anything other than "Of course not!" But I thought to myself, neither do I want them blown up in Iraq...which is really happening. I had mentioned to this person before how I thought a real Christian based government would be an amazing thing...but I'd never known of a real one and they immediately jumped back into that older conversation we'd had, without prompting."You know why you haven't seen a real Christian based government? Because it's stupid! That Love stuff is stupid! Loving your enemies and turning the other cheek is stupid! It wouldn't work. It's never worked and it never will work!"They may have called me an "idot" or a "moron" about that time. They did say that I and all my friends that I talked to on the internet (I think he meant you guys) were stupid and idiots for believing that stupid Love stuff. It was bad. It was really bad. He had his fists clenched and I thought he was going to hit me, since there were no "towel heads" around to do it for him.The man was supposed to be a Christian...but he denied every aspect of it and spat on it. I used to hear preachers say that a day was coming when people would deny being Christians. People that had claimed they were when things were easy would deny it when confronted with the Beast. I imagined it happening differently back then. I didn't foresee it going down like this. I knew they would do it out of fear...but I didn't see it happening exactly like it did. It was fear of not following the Beast...but in a different way than I thought it would be. Denying Christ completely and putting a man or men and their power to make war above God. But I've seen a man do it now and proclaim his faith in the flesh...the Beast...a man, over God. It was an awful thing to see and hear.So, now I have a new "enemy" to pray for, and naturally, I'm upset about that.You know I believe in all our rights... including the right to bear arms and protect ourselves. I don't believe we should leave our homes and take vengence on innocent until proven guilty, men, women, and children in another country because we have suddenly seen that we should be wary of some of their faith.Yes, obviously some of them do hate and want to kill us. Their god is a god of hate and death and exclusion. Mine's not. My God is different. He's about Love. (There's that scary word again.)There's blood thirst, hatred, and anger everywhere I turn. It's the world. I'm in it...but not of it. I want to follow the teachings of Christ, even when it's difficult...but it's so hard.We were warned the world would hate us because of our Christianity. I was so niave when I first heard that. I just didn't see how it could be that people could hate people for being gentle, kind, and loving...but...wow...was I wrong.
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Comment #70 posted by FoM on August 21, 2006 at 08:54:32 PT

Another Video and Article on Protest Music
Musicians Rock, Rap and Twang Against the WarThree Years After the Dixie Chicks Got Pounded for Criticizing President Bush, Diverse Musicians Join the Chorus.Neil Young is an old hand at protest music, and he's at it again with his album, "Living With War." (ABC News) Aug. 20, 2006 — Anti-war songs are often thought of as a relic of the Vietnam era, but today's stars are now increasingly criticizing the government over the war in Iraq.Just a few years ago, this was considered a risky career move, but now rocking against the war is, quite literally, all the rage. Video: http://abcnews.go.com/Video/playerIndex?id=2335906News Article: http://abcnews.go.com/WNT/Politics/story?id=2335786&page=1
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Comment #69 posted by FoM on August 21, 2006 at 07:19:39 PT

Hope
I don't think that the Pastor is being really mean. I post articles that I don't believe and don't spend time thinking of a comment about the article. I believe that the war against people who think that Cannabis shouldn't be against the law is immoral. People are in prison over a plant that was put on this earth by God. If God thought it was a bad plant why did He create it? Seed bearing plants were given to us by God or so it says in Genesis. I won't get into areas that I feel might not be right but locking up and wrecking lives over this plant is wrong.
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Comment #68 posted by mayan on August 21, 2006 at 07:14:17 PT

Afterburner
I doubt if there will be any trolls. I think we're the only ones who have visited Marsh's site!
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Comment #67 posted by afterburner on August 21, 2006 at 07:13:51 PT

Yes, FoM
However, our US federal government won't accept cannabis therapy. They see any use of cannabis as a reason for caging OR providing forced treatment, anything-but-cannabis therapy, the velvet glove on the iron fist, court-ordered treatment instead of caging. Israel at least acknowledges the benefit of cannabis therapy for post-traumatic stress disorder. Would that the US government had such wisdom.By the way, new visitors, my previous rant on The Principles of the Therapeutic State was sarcasm, just in case anyone misunderstood. I detect these attitudes in those who would replace forced caging with forced treatment for those who enjoy the medical and spiritual blessings of the herb, cannabis. 
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Comment #66 posted by Hope on August 21, 2006 at 07:04:46 PT

Pastor Marsh is up
And Whig's comment, and another, and his response are up at that url now.
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Comment #65 posted by FoM on August 21, 2006 at 06:53:02 PT

Therapy
Afterburner, I can't imagine anyone that is paying attention to what the Bush Administration has done to us and the whole world who couldn't use a little therapy. Cannabis is used in Israel to help with trauma from war. 
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Comment #64 posted by afterburner on August 21, 2006 at 06:43:48 PT

#54-#56: whig, Toker00, mayan
Yeah, I read the rantings, sarcasm, and guilt-by-association dripping from this holier-than-thou so-called pastor of Christ. More "decent" scholars would support the truth about cannabis and its spiritual and healing properties and history if doing so didn't subject them to ridicule by the likes of Pastor Louie Marsh! What exactly does he mean by "decent," anyway? If he means people who want to prohibit cannabis, his argument is circular. Louie Marsh obviously has not read the original source material by Sula Bennet (circa 1936). At least he's bringing the curious Christians to cannabisnews. Watch out for trolls, but maybe some visitors will see the light of wisdom on the cannabis issue by reading here. Welcome, open-minded Christian visitors.So, Pastor Marsh thinks our friends here at cnews need "therapy"! Here's my own little rant about therapy:Principles of the Therapeutic State-Only people on drugs have emotions
-Regular people are always rational and logical
-Creativity is caused by a chemical imbalance
-Real people conform
-There are no accidents, only crimes
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Comment #63 posted by mayan on August 21, 2006 at 06:43:26 PT

I Want My $ Back!
NYT: Six-year, $4.7b effort to slash Colombia's coca crop has left price, quality, availability of cocaine on US streets unchanged: 
http://www.rawstory.com/news/2006/NYT_Sixyear_4.7b_effort_to_slash_0818.htmlAfghan poppy harvest increases 40 percent:
http://www.washtimes.com/upi/20060818-075144-3760r.htm
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Comment #62 posted by FoM on August 21, 2006 at 06:27:03 PT

ABC World News: Neil Young's Protest Music 
Great Video: http://abcnews.go.com/Video/playerIndex?id=2335507
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Comment #61 posted by FoM on August 21, 2006 at 06:17:57 PT

Toker00
I'm really sorry you can't make it. I was just reading the reviews on the Rust List and last night show was great too. These guys are on a mission and it is making many people really happy. 
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Comment #60 posted by mayan on August 21, 2006 at 06:16:53 PT

Murkowski
Alaska Gov. May Be Unseated in Primary: 
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2006/08/19/ap/politics/mainD8JJ77VO0.shtmlHe won't be missed.
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Comment #59 posted by FoM on August 21, 2006 at 05:57:32 PT

Pictures from The Seattle Hempfest 2006
http://tinyurl.com/nkmqo
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Comment #58 posted by FoM on August 21, 2006 at 05:54:00 PT

Related Article from Seattle Post Intelligencer
Monday, August 21, 2006Advocates for Legalizing Marijuana Tout The Benefits at Hempfest***By Mike Lewis, P-I ReporterAugust 21, 2006Former Seattle police Chief Norm Stamper doesn't have dreadlocks, a Zig-Zag T-shirt or a single Phish album. He just sounds like it.Snipped:Complete Article: http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/local/281994_hempfest21.html
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Comment #57 posted by Hope on August 21, 2006 at 05:52:58 PT

Whig
Up at six and saw your post...been checking out the Marshian Chronicles for an hour and a half. Odd that he didn't link to the Guardian Unlimited. Nobody to ridicule there, I guess.
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Comment #56 posted by mayan on August 21, 2006 at 04:29:57 PT

whig
Where is your reply to "Pastor" Louie Marsh's ignorant drivel? I see that he posted the titles to some linked articles(without the links) that I posted here back in 2003. I guess that is his attempt to ridicule us "pot-heads." It seems that he believes in the government's drug war and the gov't account of 9/11. The truth obviously means nothing to him so I must conclude that he and his brand of religion are pretty phony. Since exactly zero folks have commented on that page of his since January, I will just let the big goose egg remain there! What an ignorant loser.THE WAY OUT IS THE WAY IN...Austin Pastor Fights to Spread 9/11 Truth:
http://www.jonesreport.com/articles/170806_austin_pastor.htmlTruth seekers, not Bush bashers - by Jim Fetzer:
http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=51579Norway's Dagbladet Strikes Again!
http://www.911blogger.com/v2/files/Translated.pdf9/11 Neo-Con Hit Piece Explodes Into Controversy:
http://prisonplanet.com/articles/august2006/180806hitpiece.htmWorld Net Daily Forced To Issue 9/11 Hit Piece Retraction:
http://www.prisonplanet.com/articles/august2006/180806issueretraction.htm
 
Neo-Fascists Declare War On Truth Movement:
http://www.infowars.com/articles/sept11/neo_facists_declare_war_on_truth_movement.htm911podcasts.com presents Mia Hamel Arrest Leafleting Oliver Stones WTC: 
http://www.911podcasts.com/display.php?vid=156Loose Change Crew Releases Flyer and New Info on NYC 5th Anniversary Events:
http://www.911blogger.com/v2/node/2162Introducing "9/11: Press for Truth":
http://www.911truth.org/press4truth.htm
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Comment #55 posted by Toker00 on August 21, 2006 at 04:12:11 PT

Nice reply whig. Where?
:p Would really like to see your response. It always amazed me to hear religious leaders demonize people who otherwise teach with the word of Christ, but because they use cannabis, they need therapy? Or is that just because we question authority? I watched "What the west needs to know about Islam" on C-span last night. Mohamed sounds like the complete opposite of Christ. Jesus says listen to NO man, but listen to me. (Truth) Mohamed says listen to me, and no one else. Christ says heal , Mohamed says kill. Christianity is based on Love, Islam is based on Hate. You have to really hate someone to kill them, in my opinion. So if Allah is the Deity of Hate, and Jehovah is a God of Love, why would you consciously choose to Hate? Is Islam the Anti-Christ? What are the Christians who kill in the name of Christ? It's chilling to know that over a Billion Muslims want us to convert to Islam, or die. Sounds a lot like "democracy" and "fascism", doesn't it? I believe ALL religions should be required to present evidence of their beliefs. Faith is re-enforced when the results of a situation end favorably after prayers are said, and if it doesn't, it's just God's will. Really? How many of the victims of war and religious oppression have been saved by prayer of faith? Not too many. Any? The odds are, actions were taken to cause the favorable outcome, and is not the outcome of faith. I'm not saying you shouldn't have faith, for faith allows us strength to get through tough times. But believing the creator of the Universe wants us to be so narrow minded about his creation and wants us to kill to enforce this narrow mindedness, is illogical. Where's the evidence to support this?Maybe I'm just losing my Faith. Or my Religion. FoM, I'm truly sorry I can't make the CSNY concert. Your understanding e-mail was appreciated. Sorry it took me this long to publicly admit my failure. Like I told FoM, it breaks my heart. Hopefully there will be other opportunities to meet. Hey, that's Faith, isn't it? Maybe I haven't lost it all.Wage peace on war. END CANNABIS PROHIBITION NOW!  
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Comment #54 posted by whig on August 20, 2006 at 23:16:40 PT

Linkage
Thought you might like to see my reply to this:http://marshianchronicles.com/?p=476Say hello to Pastor Marsh.
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Comment #53 posted by Hope on August 20, 2006 at 21:00:07 PT

Ekim
I meant that *smile* in that I was glad you'd experienced that...and that we'd both remembered our Dads because of FoM's video and song. It's a sweet feeling and I'm grateful you had it, too.Thanks.
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Comment #52 posted by Hope on August 20, 2006 at 19:57:15 PT

 ekim
*smile*Right after my Dad died, I heard more good old cowboy songs for some reason than I'd ever heard in my life. It helped.
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Comment #51 posted by ekim on August 20, 2006 at 19:40:45 PT

he is mighty proud ---hope --all here are
Makes me think of my Dad, too. A lot. 
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Comment #50 posted by FoM on August 20, 2006 at 19:31:47 PT

Hope
I was surprised I found that video today. I think it sums up how we need to see more then we would see when our cultures are different. I think it makes for a really nice picture of a cross section of the USA and society. There is so much to learn. More and more people feel a need to connect. I think the more oppressive a government becomes the more people look for people of like mind that are questioning why. Never stop questioning. I know we won't here on CNews. 
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Comment #49 posted by Hope on August 20, 2006 at 19:23:46 PT

Thank you, FoM, for this place
(and I really wouldn't "slobber" on Neil and Willie...that's just an expression I use sometimes.):0)
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Comment #48 posted by FoM on August 20, 2006 at 19:09:26 PT

Hope and Whig
I am happy that we have this community. We are all so different and that's what I like. I learn that way. I don't believe we should ever stop learning.
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Comment #47 posted by Hope on August 20, 2006 at 18:50:34 PT

You da one!
All of you!
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Comment #46 posted by Hope on August 20, 2006 at 18:49:26 PT

You Betcha, Whig...
You guys...and right here.
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Comment #45 posted by Hope on August 20, 2006 at 18:47:33 PT

First time
I've ever put a picture of myself on the desktop in all these years.
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Comment #44 posted by whig on August 20, 2006 at 18:46:35 PT

Hope
Do you know some kind folks you can spend time around when you are feeling down? I hope that's what CNews is for people and it sure was for me when I was feeling like things were oppressive.
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Comment #43 posted by Hope on August 20, 2006 at 18:44:45 PT

It's getting to me...
I just put my hot day hat picture up for the background on my desktop.It's getting to other people too....I think in not the same way. I sense the tension rising...but I'll play it one more time...anyway.
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Comment #42 posted by Hope on August 20, 2006 at 18:28:53 PT

Ya holler
and sometimes swear...shake it off and keep on going.Kind of like what we do here.
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Comment #41 posted by Hope on August 20, 2006 at 18:27:44 PT

"Are there anymore Country families...
still workin hand in hand..."You can bet there are. My sister and I busted three fingers between us getting the hay fork back on the old tractor, Friday.
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Comment #40 posted by Hope on August 20, 2006 at 18:12:20 PT

Thanks FoM.
"I'm glad you still have the heart of a real working cowgirl."I do...but sometimes I have to wonder how long it's gonna hold out.Makes me think of my Dad, too. A lot. 
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Comment #39 posted by whig on August 20, 2006 at 18:10:41 PT

Milla
Misspelled her last name: Milla JovovichAnd this really is the same Milla:http://www.millaj.com/
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Comment #38 posted by whig on August 20, 2006 at 18:08:43 PT

The Alien Song (for those who listen)
http://tinyurl.com/z3lpgI see a shining....
A sweeping from the clouds
A glimmer of hope
is coming to feel our light
Oh look it's flashing
This life among the stars
Reaching out to know us
to feel our might
Oh... this restless hope in you
Please... try and help us
Stand on our own
As we STEPPED on this pavement
and saw your dying minds
Paper, for which you're killing a brother's life
Help you, we cannot TOUCH you
we cannot understand
Your people's proud destruction
Of their own land
Oh... we're flying
On from you
We... will not stay to
See your fate
Watch them fly away
Watch them fly away
See the lines across the sky
Watch them fly awayby Milla Jovavich
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Comment #37 posted by Hope on August 20, 2006 at 17:58:17 PT

It's really hard not to wallow in self pity
when it really is pitiful...but I won't.Love you all.And thanks for the song and video, FoM.
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Comment #36 posted by Hope on August 20, 2006 at 17:56:59 PT

My alcoholic gene
is raising hell. But I'll fight it. 
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Comment #35 posted by Hope on August 20, 2006 at 17:55:40 PT

I'm a mighty lucky ole gal
to have had the honor of working cattle from horseback.I love them both...the horses and the cattle.That video of the guys working...just tears me up.And the "rows and rows of houses" ARE coming after us. I see them from those pastures...when just a few years ago there was just us.It makes me sick.
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Comment #34 posted by Hope on August 20, 2006 at 17:51:07 PT

I'm listen to Neil and Willie
and looking at the pictures I've sent you of me in my hat at the end of a long hot day, and my sister and the livestock...and the old barns.I'm not fit for anything right now...but I've got to finish cooking supper.
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Comment #33 posted by FoM on August 20, 2006 at 17:51:01 PT

Hope
I'm glad you liked it. I thought it was beautiful. A tribute to real working cowboys. I'm glad you still have the heart of a real working cowgirl.
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Comment #32 posted by Hope on August 20, 2006 at 17:46:56 PT

Lord Knows...
I'm just squallin.Right now...I'd like to listen to Willie and Neil sing to me, and get drunk and just hug and slobber all over em.:0(Thanks, it's beautiful.I'll be playin it and squallin till someone makes me turn it off.
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Comment #31 posted by Hope on August 20, 2006 at 17:41:05 PT

Time Fades Away
The first song I ever remember Willie doing, and he was a black haired lounge singer in Grapevine, Texas, and I was just a kid, was Ain't It Funny How Time Slips Away.I think.
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Comment #30 posted by Hope on August 20, 2006 at 17:36:52 PT

You Tube
loads better for me than anything else.
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Comment #29 posted by Dankhank on August 20, 2006 at 17:29:41 PT

available on
Vinyl if you can find a good one on ebay.I have a pretty good copy of the album on Vinyl, myself ...Neil has always rocked, he must share .... please, Neil?can we have a CD copy ... from the record company ...?see previous link ...
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Comment #28 posted by Hope on August 20, 2006 at 17:28:01 PT

My cowboy hat
You've seen it. Had to go to the store and pay a feed bill the other day...dogs wanted to go along. Threw my hat in the front seat, (they were in the back seat) when I ran in for probably less than three minutes tops, all the windows down, right at the front door and came back and my hat had about nine holes and a broken brim. They must have done a "hat dance" on it. Man...I liked that hat.
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Comment #27 posted by Hope on August 20, 2006 at 17:21:46 PT

Working Cowboys
I've got it loading. It will be awhile. It's hard being a working cowboy. It ain't much fun. It's hard, dirty, sweaty, dangerous work and there isn't much...if any reward. Your old horse may love you...but he may kill you. And then you're tired, broke down...and it's all gone. It's no wonder so many of them wind up depressed and hitting the bottle too hard.I'm pretty down. Not down with it...just down.Hey...I may be on to a country song here.
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Comment #26 posted by FoM on August 20, 2006 at 16:17:25 PT

Dankhank
Glad you liked the video. I love YouTube. Time Fades Away was never released I think. I believe when the Archives are released it might be on there but I'm not reallty sure. I think they got put back because of LWW and the tour. They just did a piece on Protest music on ABC's World News. It was really good. Hopefully someone will put it on Youtube.
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Comment #25 posted by Dankhank on August 20, 2006 at 15:14:31 PT

willie and neil ...
I went with a friend to Willie Nelson's 4th of July picnic at Cowboy stadium or some such in Dallas circa 1978. Great show with many countrified acts, Willie, Waylan, Kris, Emmylou Harris, Ray Hubbard, CDB, and enjoyed it very much. Can't remember if we got high, think so, but it was hot as hell, no ... as it's today, on that astroturf ... we drank scads of water and beer. Had to pour the beer into a gallon jug and call it ginger ale, the guards were cool about it.Saw Neil with Linda Rondstadt, sp?, wife and I, in OKC about 1972, a song from that show is on the album "Time Fades Away."http://www.thrasherswheat.org/tnfy/tfa-petition.phpI've dabbled a bit around the edges of CW as can bee seen, but I have always disliked CW in general and in principle ...so, sue me ...:-)peace ...ps, liked the video, FoM
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Comment #24 posted by FoM on August 20, 2006 at 14:23:12 PT

Hope
Great post. I hope you will be able to see and hear that Working Cowboys video. It made me think of you. 
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Comment #23 posted by Hope on August 20, 2006 at 14:06:33 PT

Legal
I thought in the seventies it would be legal, too. I didn't forsee the power of the war mongers. Nor did I forsee our own government and others happy to see us poisoned by Parquat. I couldn't imagine how many Americans would sell out other Americans so easily. Mothers and babies shot out of the sky by our own government's orders and funds. Children shot in the back at close range by law enforcement. The ghillie suited snipers. Bombs thrown in people's windows. Armed, black masked, robo-cops breaking into people's homes. People demonized, killed, and inmprisoned. I didn't forsee people getting so rich off drug prohibition. I didn't forsee the depth of the hatred and intolerance. I thought we were better people. A greater percentage of our population in prison than any country in the world. The Constitution being "just a piece of paper".It's almost funny that we were just worried about the tobacco companies buying up the names Acapulco Gold and Panama Red.If it wasn't such a horror...it would almost be funny.
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Comment #22 posted by FoM on August 20, 2006 at 14:01:43 PT

Neil Young & Willie Nelson - Working Cowboys
I like this country song.http://youtube.com/watch?v=6O2ZVEz0XQw
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Comment #21 posted by JR Bob Dobbs on August 20, 2006 at 13:52:12 PT

Good country artists
I'm not a huge country fan, but I do like Johnny Cash, Lyle Lovett and Todd Snider. Also some bluegrass pickin' like Flatt & Scruggs. Most of what's commonly called "country" these days should more accurately be called "southern pop".Todd Snider's got a great line in one of his songs, I forget which one, it goes something like: "They don't care what drugs you're strung out on so much as WHOSE."Check out some Todd Snider videos - if you haven't heard My Generation Part Two, it's as good place as any to start:
Todd Snider videos
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Comment #20 posted by FoM on August 20, 2006 at 13:46:14 PT

billos 
That's right! LOL!
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Comment #19 posted by FoM on August 20, 2006 at 13:45:27 PT

charmed quark
I wish I had known about medicinal marijuana back then. I was worried when they connected cocaine as a gateway drug. I didn't know any better. I quit for many years. The Reagan administration scared me too.
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Comment #18 posted by billos on August 20, 2006 at 13:44:37 PT

             FoM
that's funny.....yet bittersweet for it's the truth. But hey, we'll die happy, right?
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Comment #17 posted by charmed quark on August 20, 2006 at 13:29:26 PT

Whig - cannabis and subculture
The counterculture actually started with the Beats in the 50s. Mostly fueled by wine. And many of the important thinkers of the 60s did not use any drugs that much.But you're right, cannabis and probably LSD were a big part of the conciousness movement. But once you done them a few times, you don't need to keep doing them to keep expanding one's conciousness.Many of us moved on to other things, mostly eastern meditation and yoga, and found that these were more effective without the addition of other conciousness agents. Basically, we were learning to do it from within, under our control, rather than use outside agents. 
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Comment #16 posted by charmed quark on August 20, 2006 at 13:22:54 PT

medical cannabis in the 70s
It's true, I had no idea of its medical benefits back then. The condition I have now was just starting to be noticble then. Back then, it was just a minor nuisance. I had noticed how the symptoms would go away for a few days if I smoked pot but didn't really think much about it other than "pot makes everything better!"Later on when my condition got severe, I didn't even remember that. I hadn't used cannabis for decades. When a doctor suggested I try cannabis, I actually laughed. There was no way gentle marijuana was going to help a condition as severe as mine. It wasn't until much later that I got desperate and gave it a try. After I discovered it really worked, I remembered my experience from the early 70s.In the early 80s, I met several people who used pot medicinally. One was a cancer patient who said it helped him deal with his chemo. Another was a man who was nearly quadraplegic from a vehicle accident. He said it helped with the spasms and "phantom pain". The third was a guy with an untreatable parasitic infection that gave him ulcers that were destroying his stomach. He claimed that the pot was the only thing keeping him alive.I was so ignorant then that I thought they were just using pot because the "high" made them feel a little better psychologically. "Not that there is anything wrong with that". LOLs. Now I know it is really good for all those things.Like most, I was ignorant of the benefits shown in studies that had already been done. Too bad in my case. I lost a good decade because of my ignorance. To some degree, I'm still losing out, because I'm forced to use Marinol. A lot of the literature I've read indicates that CBD with THC would be dramatically more effective and with less side effects.
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Comment #15 posted by whig on August 20, 2006 at 13:18:03 PT

charmed quark
"I think the subculture from the late 60s and early 70s was fantastic and I really miss it. But that culture doesn't need marijuana or any other drug to exist. Pot was just the "secret handshake" of that culture."I don't agree on this, but I wasn't around in the 60s so my opinion may be mistaken about then. I can definitely say that pot is not a secret handshake for me or people that I talk to here and elsewhere. It really does make a tremendous difference in the consciousness of the people who are partaking, and in the absence of this we cannot perceive certain things or discuss them as well. So if you take pot away from culture, you really do harm the culture. The reason there are so many wars and so much hatred and violence in the world today, I believe, is that cannabis has been taken away from the culture.
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Comment #14 posted by FoM on August 20, 2006 at 13:04:02 PT

charmed quark
I understand what you are saying. It did seem like it was going to be a done deal. I think that the newness of marijuana in the 60s for so many no one thought about it as anything but a common ground. Medical marijuana is really new. We didn't know that it is medicinal just that everyone no matter what felt a little better and that's why they liked it. That is medicinal but it wasn't thought about that way.
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Comment #13 posted by global_warming on August 20, 2006 at 12:52:23 PT

800, 000 People
Every YearHave FallenAway from Justice and TruthWhere do you stand?
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Comment #12 posted by charmed quark on August 20, 2006 at 12:48:05 PT

Tobacco companies
Back in the early 70s, when everybody thought cannabis was going to be legalized, it was rumored that a couple of the American tobacco companies were making legalization contingency plans for marketing the stuff. Had brand names and everything.Well, at least that uncool outcome didn't occur.However, as a medical user, I don't care if it gets made uncool and mainstream. I just don't want to get arrested and thrown in jail for being ill and trying to live as productive a life as I am capable of.I think the subculture from the late 60s and early 70s was fantastic and I really miss it. But that culture doesn't need marijuana or any other drug to exist. Pot was just the "secret handshake" of that culture. 
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Comment #11 posted by FoM on August 20, 2006 at 12:36:43 PT

Fables, Fictions, and Reefer Madness
http://magic-city-news.com/article_6524.shtml
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Comment #10 posted by Dankhank on August 20, 2006 at 12:32:29 PT

agreed ...
I have enjoyed Willie Nelson, Johnny Cash, Wet Wellie, Elvin Bishop, Marshall Tucker, Charlie Daniels ... until Charlie changed the lyrics he sings re: "Long_Haired Country Boy"He no longers sings "stoned in the morning"http://www.cowboylyrics.com/lyrics/daniels-charlie/long-haired-country-boy-10933.htmlHe was a rebel in his younger days ... now my 76 year old mom likes him for his annual Christmas show on CMT.He sold out ...
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Comment #9 posted by whig on August 20, 2006 at 12:20:22 PT

Dankhank
There are a lot of different styles of country music. The popular genre now is whitebread and without a lick of soul. But there is also all the stuff from Emmylou Harris, Willie Nelson, Johnny Cash, so many others.
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Comment #8 posted by FoM on August 20, 2006 at 11:55:33 PT

Dankhank
Oh boy. A pimple? Seriously I can't handle crying in my beer music. I like Neil Young's country but it doesn't have the same theme as most country music to me.
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Comment #7 posted by Dankhank on August 20, 2006 at 11:47:43 PT

country music
F*ck country music, the pimple on the ass of music ...I know there are some good songs in that genre, but collectively, the genre generally supports all of the bullsh*t the government would have you believe.I hope our local country station will pass, too.As our kids were growing up I told them MY radios didn't even tune country, so don't even try ...:-)
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Comment #6 posted by global_warming on August 20, 2006 at 10:56:36 PT

and if 'you are waiting
For Jusus to wipe your dirty body,Ignorance and greed only lessens the the eye of the needleAs you pass to the frontier of justice and goodnessYou and your soul must pass through this portal,Be prepared, the hole is small,Can you smell your place?Can you see?
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Comment #5 posted by global_warming on August 20, 2006 at 10:42:16 PT

re: those 800,000 a year
You may not believe in ghosts,but those millions of people who are living a life under the hand of the Ansingers and Nixons, exist in a world of such cruelity and ignorance.
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Comment #4 posted by whig on August 20, 2006 at 10:29:11 PT

Celaya
Too true. Cannabis festivals are a means to an end. People have fun though and they don't want to stop having fun. But like everything it will outlive its purpose and we will have other fun things to do.Actually there will always be festivals but instead of a couple big ones in a small number of places there will be many smaller ones everywhere, just like there are state fairs everywhere.
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Comment #3 posted by Celaya on August 20, 2006 at 09:42:19 PT

Cannabis Consumer Luddites
It always peeves me no end to hear some complacent cannabis consumers complain about how legalization would destroy their little world.As if the arrest of 800,000 people arrested each year were an insignficant price to pay for the little notch they've carved out for themselves. I guess there are some people who are nostaligic about alcohol prohibition and moonshine too. I wish these folks would wake up and realize they are a dragging anchor on the ship of marijuana reform.
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Comment #2 posted by Had Enough on August 20, 2006 at 08:43:23 PT

Two Major Cities
L.A.'s Only Country Music Station ClosesAug 18, 7:17 PM (ET)By GILLIAN FLACCUSLOS ANGELES (AP) - There is a tear in the beer of country music fans here. After more than 20 years on the air, the city's only country music station, KZLA-FM, abruptly left the air Thursday and was seamlessly replaced with the rhythmic pop of "Movin' 93.9," which plays artists such as Beyonce, Janet Jackson and Jennifer Lopez. KZLA's sudden and unannounced demise leaves America's two most populous cities, Los Angeles and New York, without country music stations.and…http://apnews.myway.com/article/20060818/D8JJ4KTG0.html

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Comment #1 posted by FoM on August 20, 2006 at 08:30:31 PT

Fast-Forward 20 Years
If it will take 20 more years then I will be using a walker and saying to my husband 'Hey Pa' it finally happened! Then 'Pa' says what happen? Hey who are you? LOL!
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