Speaker: Marijuana Smoking Victimless

  Speaker: Marijuana Smoking Victimless

Posted by CN Staff on March 08, 2006 at 08:17:32 PT
By Chuck Peterson, Advocate Reporter  
Source: Advocate 

Granville, Ohio -- Marijuana is about as harmless as a cup of coffee but far less dangerous than alcohol and tobacco, an advocate for changes in marijuana laws told a Denison University audience of about 200 Tuesday night.Allen F. St. Pierre, executive director of the National Organization for the Reform of Marijuana Laws, often used the alcohol analogy to make his points favoring general decriminalization of marijuana.
St. Pierre, 40, drew a curious contrast between the friendly neighborhood bartender pouring a beer and "pushers" who sell marijuana. "There is no functional difference between a bartender and a drug dealer," he contended."Some of the most imprudent decisions you make in your life are made under the influence of alcohol," St. Pierre said, noting that alcohol causes 120,000 deaths per year, compared to essentially zero for marijuana."If you abuse alcohol," he said, "you drink when you drive or pee in somebody's front yard. In our society you have to do something to be labeled as an abuser. This (abuse) doesn't happen with marijuana."NORML, in existence for 35 years, lobbies its agenda chiefly through education, legislation and litigation, but St. Pierre prefers the first two, especially at the state level. It is his hope that change "bubbles" up to the federal level through reforms among the states.St. Pierre observed that use of tobacco, which still claims 400,000 lives a year, has plummeted in his lifetime through educational efforts, not through the criminal justice system."The war on drugs is really a war on people," he said. "We don't have wars against inanimate objects."St. Pierre said a debate over changing marijuana laws can be won with four words: "No victim, no crime.""If you're smoking marijuana, who's the victim?" he questioned.Marijuana has a lethal-dose toxicity rating of 50, which mean's it's not lethal, period, he said. But despite scientific evidence, he continued, the federal government in 1970 gave the plant "Schedule I" status along with pure forms of heroine and LSD, meaning that these drugs are (1) high in potential for abuse, (2) addictive, and (3) possess no medical utility. St. Pierre maintains that marijuana may be psychologically addictive, but not physically so.NORML favors changing marijuana to Schedule II status, having been proven to be medically useful in treatment for glaucoma, AIDS, cancer, multiple sclerosis and chronic pain.For cancer patients undergoing chemotherapy, he said marijuana's tendency to give users the "munchies" helps them to keep down food and remain healthy.Two Denison students lauded St. Pierre's approach to his subject."The basis of all this is logic and understanding law," rather than emotion and ideology, said sophomore Mike Kalnins, an English literature/history major. "Honest, intelligent discussion of issues is what we need, rather than ridicule and Anne Coulter."Junior media technology and arts major Amber Yoder agreed."I liked that he approached it from an intelligent and scientific basis," she said. Source: Newark Advocate, The (OH)Author: Chuck Peterson, Advocate Reporter Published: March 08, 2006Copyright: 2006 The AdvocateContact: cpeterson nncogannett.comWebsite: -- Cannabis Archives

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Comment #44 posted by jose melendez on March 10, 2006 at 00:40:40 PT
re: comment #42
how about:"Free Jerry!"
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Comment #43 posted by FoM on March 09, 2006 at 18:00:29 PT
I just read Jerry's letter again. He is doing ok it seems. He has a strong Spirit. He asked me about the page and the movie being put on CNews. I need to know a few things and I am trying to figure out how to do it but I will figure it out. Can your web site handle the bandwidth with a link to the movie? I never had a movie online so I don't know hard it is on your server if I'm asking the right question. Is downloading the movie as expensive as viewing the movie as far as bandwidth? This might take me a few days to figure out but I will get it done for Jerry.
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Comment #42 posted by FoM on March 09, 2006 at 14:04:04 PT
If we lengthen the title for the link it might take up two lines and that's ok but how will we get an impact and with how many words. I like: Our Friend Jerry's Story but that's a little too long. I don't think putting on the words that he is in jail will make the link be accessed more and might stop some from reading it. A story is worth checking out. Do you see what I mean?
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Comment #41 posted by museman on March 09, 2006 at 13:59:20 PT
I contacted them, I will let you know when they reply.
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Comment #40 posted by FoM on March 09, 2006 at 13:58:04 PT
When I finally e-mail Matt I will ask him to remove the one Canadian Link and add Jerry's page in it's place. If you look at the Hot Links section it would be by The Kubby Files. It squishes up if it's too long. That's my problem.
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Comment #39 posted by museman on March 09, 2006 at 13:47:03 PT
Jerry's page
How about,"Jerry Sisson POWOD"Prisoner of war on drugsor"Our friend Jerry, POW"something like that?
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Comment #38 posted by FoM on March 09, 2006 at 11:07:47 PT
Thanks. I didn't know they had an e-mail list.
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Comment #37 posted by ekim on March 09, 2006 at 11:04:05 PT
their was a email that called for help 
from masscann members to help Jerrys wife when she visits him. 
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Comment #36 posted by FoM on March 09, 2006 at 09:52:48 PT
I couldn't find anything on the web page about Jerry. Did you see something I missed?
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Comment #35 posted by ekim on March 09, 2006 at 09:47:31 PT
any ideas from members of Masscann
seems that masscann has shown interest in Jerry and Lindas need to have support in seeing him. I wonder if Linda can be of assistance to masscann in relating their story.
On Tuesday 3/7, the Judiciary committee heard testimony on the House version of 1151: H. 862 or "An Act To Impose A Civil Fine For Possession of Marijuana". We had a great panel of witnesses and the Committee was surprisingly welcoming and hospitable. Instead of a majority of the Committee getting up and going home, as has been the case in the past, many members stayed to listen. They engaged our witnesses directly and seemed sincerely interested in what we had to say. House Chair Eugene O'Flaherty encouraged us not to give up and assured us that our arguments were being heard. It does seem as though something is going on under the Golden Dome. A more complete report on this interesting hearing will be posted soon. 
On Wednesday 3/1, the Joint Committee on Public Health referred H. 2742, an important piece of Medical Marijuana legislation, "to study,"* ie., to the dumpster.  Among other provisions, H. 2742 would have established legal protection for seriously ill patients who use marijuana under the recommendation of their doctor and allowed DPH-certified patients to possess and/or cultivate marijuana for medical purposes. House Chairman Peter Koutoujian (D-Waltham) stated that the action was based on an opinion by the committee counsel that H.2742 violates federal law. According to attorney Steven Epstein, that advice "... reflects a clearly erroneous understanding of the Supreme Court's decision in Gonzales v. Raich and the principles of federalism established by the Constitution. "In Raich," Epstein continues, "the Court decided that the state of California was free to permit the medical use of marijuana by its citizens even though the federal Drug Enforcement Administration was free to continue to persecute California's medical users. Massachusetts is as free as California."
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Comment #34 posted by FoM on March 09, 2006 at 08:30:26 PT
We just got a letter from Jerry. He asked a favor and I'm going to try to do it for him. He asked me if we can put his web page on CNews' front page. I will contact Matt Elrod and ask him to add his link under Hot Links on the left hand side of the front page. I need a title before I ask Matt and it can't be long because of the limited space. What should I title the page? I was thinking Jerry Sisson's Story. Maybe shorter yet would be Jerry's Story. I'll wait before I e-mail Matt so we can think about it.
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Comment #33 posted by FoM on March 09, 2006 at 07:29:22 PT
I posted a little of an Ambien article on this thread. When will they test for all legal prescription drugs that can cause impairment or stop testing everything.
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Comment #32 posted by dongenero on March 09, 2006 at 07:13:14 PT
It is being reported that Ambien (a "legal" sleep aid) is causing some people to "sleep drive", then wake up to find they have been in a traffic accident.Good thing the legislators are going after sober people with 2 week old cannabis metabolites in their blood. That makes sense!
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Comment #31 posted by dongenero on March 09, 2006 at 07:07:21 PT
great Dankhank!
That looks very well put together Hank.
You're rockin' DH!Fight disinformation and misconceptions with truth. 
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Comment #30 posted by Dankhank on March 09, 2006 at 06:04:12 PT
Driving ...
Once again into the breach ...use this any way it will help ...Sir: 
	It is with great interest that I read the story about the defendant you sentenced to "living with a coffin" as a reminder of the "deadly consequences of your choices." The young man was convicted of possession of Cocaine and driving under the influence. 	In recent months I have been corresponding with a Dr Jim Frank of the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration regarding "Impaired Driving." During our discussions he offered and sent me six studies done by the Department of Transportation.
	After reading these studies, I picked out the most startling, I feel, comments many will read while insisting that since alcohol negatively affects driving skill, all other illegal drugs must, too. Here are some items I gleaned from each study provided by the NHTSA. This is MY research ---------Dankhank Lawton OK 
DOT HS 808 078 "Marijuana and Actual Driving Performance" Final Report, Nov. 1993 Conclusions on page 108 of the copy I received from the NHTSA are interesting and informative. A sample, "It is possible to safely study the effects of marijuana on driving on highways or city streets in the presence of other traffic." "Drivers under the influence of marijuana tend to over-estimate the adverse effects of the drug on their driving ability and compensate when they can; e.g. by increasing effort to accomplish the task, increasing headway or slowing down, or a combination of these." DOT HS 808 939 "Marijuana, Alcohol and Actual Driving Performance" July 1999 Conclusion on page 39 midway of paragraph 5.1 of the copy I received: The addition of the new data, (for marijuana), broadens the range of reactions that may be expected to occur in real life. This range has not been shown to extend into the area that can rightfully be regarded as dangerous or an obviously unacceptable threat to public safety. DOT HS 809 020 "Visual Search and Urban City Driving under the Influence of Marijuana and Alcohol" March 2000: Conclusion 1 on page 24 of the copy I received. "Low doses of marijuana, taken alone, did not impair city driving performance and did not diminish visual search frequency for traffic at intersections in this study."
General Discussion, page 22 “Previous on-the-road studies have also demonstrated that subjects are generally aware of the impairing properties of THC and try to compensate for the drug's impairing properties by driving more carefully (Hansteen et al, 1976; Casswell, 1979; Peck et al, 1986; Robbe 1994). “DOT HS 809 642 "State of Knowledge of Drug Impaired Driving" Sept 2003: Experimental Research of Cannabis, page 41 midway: "The extensive studies by Robbe and O'Hanlon (1993), revealed that under the influence of Marijuana, drivers are aware of their impairment, and when experimental tasks allow it, they tend to actually decrease speed, avoid passing other cars, and reduce other risk-taking behaviors." DOT HS 808 065 "The Incidence and Role of Drugs in Fatally Injured Drivers" Oct. 1992 In discussing the "Distribution of Ratings on Driver Responsibility" Table 5.12 page 64 of the copy I received, paragraph (p.65); "Responsibility, drugs and alcohol”, third paragraph, the following appears: "Note that the responsibility rates of the THC-only and Cocaine-only groups are actually lower than that of the drugfree drivers. Although these results too are inconclusive, they give no suggestion of impairment in the two groups. The low responsibility rate for THC was reminiscent of that found in young males by Williams and colleagues (1986).” This study is remarkable in it's propensity to attack itself as inconclusive. 
Forensic Science Review Vol. 14, Number One/Two, Jan 2002, surely must be the reference of note regarding metabolic functions and where the THC goes following ingestion. This review discuses THC and it's metabolites; THCCOOH, 11-OH-THC to mention the most discussed. Location and type of measured quantities of these and other metabolites should be easy to use to determine if a driver is "stoned" or was stoned yesterday, or last week. Mention was made of a man who had measurable levels of metabolites sixty-seven days after ingesting Cannabis.
Chap IX paragraph D, "Summary" appears to be of two minds. While stating, "Studies examining Cannabis' causal effect through responsibility analysis have more frequently indicated that THC alone did not increase accident risk …," it continues optimistically suggesting that further exhaustive research may rebut that. 
All of the studies agree that combining Cannabis with any other drug, such as Alcohol ... a major deleterious effect on driving skills, as is benzoates with Cannabis … it rapidly becomes evident that Cannabis in combination with any number of other drugs is not to be desired, but that Cannabis and Cocaine alone in all six studies have the smallest perceived safety risk of all the drugs and drug combinations tested and against drug-free drivers.	Thank You for taking the time to review this material and I must comment on the previous statement in bold and larger font, DOT HS 808 065. It strains a credulous mind; the government and legislatures are of two minds about the “War on Some Drugs.”  The legislature harasses, imprisons and generally ruins hundreds of thousands of families every year for a perceived threat that is not supported in other government studies conducted supposedly to give guidance to legislators, and the rest of America, regarding what is a threat or not.	Sir, I ask you to task your staff to order those studies from NHTSA or DOT and have someone review them.  My observations are accurate, but we all insist on verification. 
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Comment #29 posted by Toker00 on March 09, 2006 at 03:50:06 PT
Thank you, thank you. This lady is one of us. She does an excellent job of painting a cannabis "high". God bless her.Wage peace on war. END CANNABIS PROHIBITION NOW!
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Comment #28 posted by global_warming on March 09, 2006 at 02:52:29 PT
A Prohibitionists Must Read
A very nice article..
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Comment #27 posted by FoM on March 08, 2006 at 22:43:04 PT
Thank you for the Ohio information. I hope it doesn't go thru but it could.
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Comment #26 posted by Taylor121 on March 08, 2006 at 22:34:44 PT
Ohio Residents
I'm forwarding this message on behalf of a friend of mine at got this message from NORML and have just finished sending off emails to the 18 members of the House Criminal Justice Committee. If you live in Ohio, please help out by contacting these representatives and expressing your disapproval of this measure.Dear NORML Supporter:NORML continues to need your help persuading the Ohio Legislature to reject legislation that seeks to amend state law to criminally punish marijuana smokers for "drugged driving," even if the individual is neither under the influence nor impaired to drive. The lobbying efforts of NORML supporters and concerned citizens like you helped to successfully derail a similar legislative effort in 2004, and we need your assistance again now.Senate Bill 8, which passed the Senate overwhelmingly in 2005, seeks to make it a criminal offense in Ohio for any person to operate a motor vehicle if trace levels of marijuana or non-psychoactive marijuana metabolites (inert compounds produced from the chemical changes of a drug in the body) are present in their blood or urine.Although this bill passed quickly through the Senate, it stalled abruptly in the House Criminal Justice Committee. Now however, it appears that some members of the Committee are trying to resurrect this measure once again in 2006. They may succeed in doing so ¬ unless they hear from you!Senate Bill 8 represents an all out assault on the marijuana smoking community. Because marijuana's main metabolite, THC-COOH, remains detectable in certain bodily fluids, particularly urine, for days and sometimes weeks after past use, this legislation seeks to define sober drivers as if they were intoxicated. Someone who smokes marijuana is impaired as a driver at most for a few hours; certainly not for days or weeks. To treat all marijuana smokers as if they are impaired, even when the drug's effects have long worn off, is illogical and unfair.Please take two minutes to contact your House Representative and tell him or her that SB 8 is neither fair nor sound public policy. If your Representative sits on the House Criminal Justice Committee, then it is especially pertinent that you contact them and urge them to reject this proposal. (Members of the House Criminal Justice Committee are listed below.)Bob Latta (R)
district06 ohr.state.oh.usDavid Evans (R)
district71 ohr.state.oh.usDanny R. Bubp (R)
district88 ohr.state.oh.usStephen Buehrer (R)
district74 ohr.state.oh.usMike Gilb (R)
district76 ohr.state.oh.usRonald Edward Hood (R)
district91 ohr.state.oh.usJim Hughes (R)
district22 ohr.state.oh.usSally Conway Kilbane (R)
district16 ohr.state.oh.usDerrick Seaver (R)
district78 ohr.state.oh.usBill Seitz (R)
district30 ohr.state.oh.usJohn R. Willamowski (R)
district04 ohr.state.oh.usTimothy J. DeGeeter (D)
district15 ohr.state.oh.usWilliam J. Healy, II (D)
district52 ohr.state.oh.usAnnie L. Key (D)
district11 ohr.state.oh.usLance Mason (D)
district08 ohr.state.oh.usJeanine Perry (D)
district49 ohr.state.oh.usTyrone K. Yates (D)
district33 ohr.sate.oh.usKenny Yuko (D)
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Comment #25 posted by FoM on March 08, 2006 at 21:56:21 PT
I really don't understand how your government works. I know how it works down here but it is confusing to me up north. I thought the Conservatives getting into power were like the Republicans being in power down here.
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Comment #24 posted by afterburner on March 08, 2006 at 21:42:47 PT
Hamilton Did Not Vote for a Conservative Crackdown
Hamilton voted NDP which stands for taxation and regulation, support for medical cannabis and cafes. The Up in Smoke Cafe houses the Hamilton Compassion Society, serving the needs of medical cannabis patients. Who is directing this police outrage? Does the people's vote mean nothing in Canada? Is government purely arbitrary? Are other compassion societies on the PTB's hit list? Is a minority government behind this atrocity? Or are the police just acting against the will of the people without authorization?There is no cannabis possession law in Ontario: the Ontario Court of Appeals (OCA) has no authority to write legislation. The OCA has no authority to resurrect a dead law. Challenge the legality of the police actions and the law itself.
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Comment #23 posted by FoM on March 08, 2006 at 20:24:26 PT
That Made My Day
I just love Neil Young. 
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Comment #22 posted by BGreen on March 08, 2006 at 20:24:09 PT
Unblock your referrer, Dankhank
That's how I was able to post using Firefox.The Reverend Bud Green
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Comment #21 posted by FoM on March 08, 2006 at 20:12:21 PT
Thanks for asking. We replaced a hard drive from a computer we already had with a bad motherboard and I got all the programs back in and updated and it is working great. 
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Comment #20 posted by FoM on March 08, 2006 at 20:09:31 PT
I have been having errors problems too. I am so looking forward to Neil coming on in a few minutes!
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Comment #19 posted by Dankhank on March 08, 2006 at 20:01:45 PT
Daily show ...
now and I predict Neil will play this a few times when trying to post a msg ......using Firefox ...Method Not AllowedThe requested method POST is not allowed for the URL /news/21/thread21650.shtml.looks like IE may work.
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Comment #18 posted by museman on March 08, 2006 at 19:52:54 PT
Did you get your computer fixed?
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Comment #17 posted by museman on March 08, 2006 at 19:51:34 PT
You are so right! The last gasp of an ancient dying beast. Hopefully we can hasten it's demise so there will be fewer casualties in range of it's death throws.
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Comment #16 posted by FoM on March 08, 2006 at 18:49:38 PT

I just read the thread. Is Up In Smoke in Vancouver or near it? I thought Ontario was in Toronto. I really am sorry. Canada seems in a self destruct mode ever since Marc Emery getting arrested and then the other web sites. I feel bad because you are getting closer to our drug war down here now. The Conservatives getting in power might make things really hard for all of you. I hope not.
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Comment #15 posted by mayan on March 08, 2006 at 18:28:32 PT

Lombar, as the fascists start to lose control they will ratchet up their war on freedom. The U.S. is exporting terrorism into Canada because the Canadian people love freedom just as much as anyone. They can't beat the truth and that is why they fear the truth. Runruffswife, it's wonderful that folks are sending money and letters to your husband! We won't forget about him or you. We must all stick together until this war on people is over.THE WAY OUT...THE BIG,BIG LIE IS THE 9/11 COVERUP: LIARS: The Legend of United Flight 93: Petitions: Scholars for 9/11 Truth &
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Comment #14 posted by lombar on March 08, 2006 at 18:04:03 PT

I dont know if anyone posted this breaking news
Hamilton, Ontario. Up In Smoke Cafe Busted.It may have been on the news, nothing in print yet. Another police 'action'. How many people were victimized while the so-called heros were busting a peaceful citizen? We are seeing the importation of the USA drug war into Canada in the media. Helicopters against highschoolers... a bust in the news every day... sad and pathetic. \
Hamiltons Up in Smoke Cafe BUSTED. - only details I can find.
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Comment #13 posted by Hope on March 08, 2006 at 17:43:44 PT

Thanks. I went back and added the link.
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Comment #11 posted by Toker00 on March 08, 2006 at 14:27:14 PT

Urbangrounds deleted your excellent post about Cannabis Cures Cancer w/references. They left part of your post, so could you go post a link to it? I think they are just concerned w/space.Toke.
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Comment #10 posted by Toker00 on March 08, 2006 at 14:22:54 PT

The time Jerry spent in the hole strengthened EVERYONE's resolve, Linda. It's terrible what a man has to do sometimes to hold fast to his convictions. Jerry is a leader. He will direct his own time from now on. God will help him and we will too. We'll get him out early. We have people thinking all over the country what to do about this Bogus War on Some Drugs. As Cannabis makes us think, we will make THEM think. Person to person, one conversation at a time, one thread at a time.http://www.terryhubbard/Let/LetMyPeopleGrow.htmlWage peace on war. END CANNABIS PROHIBITION NOW! 
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Comment #9 posted by FoM on March 08, 2006 at 13:09:53 PT

Victimless Crimes
I remember that it was common to believe back in the 70s that marijuana, prostitution and gambling were the three victimless crimes. Two of the three are legal in some states. Now if we can change the laws on marijuana in at least a few states then we will be getting somewhere.
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Comment #8 posted by FoM on March 08, 2006 at 13:03:46 PT

I change the words too and got lots of good information. We are winning!
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Comment #7 posted by dongenero on March 08, 2006 at 13:01:44 PT

drug warrior party line
It is worth noting observer that the prohibitionist Google query you list only brings up 724 hits.I did another search under the parameter, "marijuana is a victimless crime" which brings up 60,700 hits.
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Comment #6 posted by observer on March 08, 2006 at 12:49:56 PT

drug warriors' party line

prohibitionists' party line to "victimless crime"
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Comment #5 posted by dongenero on March 08, 2006 at 12:38:11 PT

mrs runruff, I'm sorry
It is a sad to see how cruel our country can be to her own people.
Wishing you strength to persevere.
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Comment #4 posted by FoM on March 08, 2006 at 11:50:26 PT

I wish I had a magic wand sometimes. If I did I would wave it and Jerry would be back home with you in a heart beat. We sent money yesterday so hopefully he will be able to call you more often.
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Comment #3 posted by runruffswife on March 08, 2006 at 11:46:01 PT

the correct link
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Comment #2 posted by runruffswife on March 08, 2006 at 11:45:12 PT:

runruff's commissary
Jerry was able to call me yesterday because some sweet souls anonymously sent money to the commissary. Thank you so very much. 
I haven't been on lately because I've just been feeling really sad, especially after hearing about Jerry being put in the hole. It's just not right.
Jerry asked me to add some things to his webpage which museman did so please check it out. Jerry wrote a poem a couple of years ago about Crazy Horse. LOVE LOVE LOVE
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Comment #1 posted by FoM on March 08, 2006 at 08:28:13 PT

War on Drugs: Elusive Victory, Disputed Statistics
By Bernd Debusmann, Special Correspondent March 07, 2006
 Washington - (Reuters) - Despite three decades of upbeat reports on battles won in the war on drugs, cocaine, heroin and marijuana are as easily available as ever and experts say the United States has yet to develop a strategy that works. 
Just as in previous years, the government's progress reports for this year on drug control point to new records on cocaine seizures and on the eradication of coca plantations in Colombia, the world's top producer of cocaine.The annual reports were issued by the White House Office of National Drug Control Policy, a 130-member group which sets anti-drug policy and is headed by "drug czar" John Walters, and by the State Department's Bureau for International Narcotics and Law Enforcement Affairs.Complete Article:
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