cannabisnews.com: War on Drugs - Is It Really 'Right'?
War on Drugs - Is It Really 'Right'?
Posted by CN Staff on February 11, 2006 at 22:43:03 PT
By Ellis Henican
Source: Newsday
Washington, DC -- What's so conservative about the war on drugs?Spending billions in taxpayer dollars with no clear progress? Inserting government agents into Americans' private lives? Holding a million men and women in prison for what are mostly nonviolent crimes? Please, how does any of that promote the values that principled conservatives hold dear?
None of it does, of course.But now, seemingly all of a sudden, people on the left aren't the only ones expressing doubts about America's war on (some) drugs. Some of America's most energized conservatives - activists and intellectuals on the right - are openly asking, "Isn't there a better way to deal with drug abuse than the old lock-'em-up-forever approach?"At week's end, thousands of conservative activists gathered in Washington for the annual CPAC, the massive Conservative Police Action Conference, half pep rally and half conservative family reunion. The attendees were regaled with the usual conservative litany - warnings about illegal immigration, attacks on the liberal media, throaty calls for a muscular war on terrorism. Dick Cheney and Karl Rove revved up the crowd."Conservatism is the dominant political creed in America," Rove declared approvingly.But this power group of fired-up conservatives also heard something else, a message that seemed to come as a surprise to some in the sprawling meeting room: pointed and serious questions about America's 35-year campaign to rid the nation of heroin, cocaine, marijuana and other illegal drugs.Who'd have expected this at a CPAC meeting? Extended comments from the podium by Ethan Nadelman, executive director of the Drug Policy Alliance, a man who has been called the invisible hand of drug reform in America. A former Princeton University professor, Nadelman has guided the national fight for medical marijuana and been a key player in the battle to ease the draconian Rockefeller-era drug laws in New York.Actually, Nadelman told the group, there is some real historical precedent for conservative skepticism toward harsh drug laws. "Milton Friedman and William F. Buckley are probably the two most distinguished conservative thinkers of the second half of the Twentieth Century," he said. "Both of them made clear that they considered the drug laws absurd and antithetical to conservative values."What do conservatives stand for, he asked rhetorically.Individual freedom. Fiscal restraint. Holding adults responsible for their own personal decisions. Not expecting government to become a 24-hour-a-day nanny. "Isn't that what conservatism is all about?" Nadelman asked.So why is government deciding what American adults snort, smoke and swallow - and enforcing those laws with the threat of decades behind bars?Some old-guard conservatives are aghast that this discussion has gone so far. Some critics complained that Nadelman's group got some of its funding from international financier George Soros, an ardent opponent of George W. Bush.And Nadelman's planned debate opponent refused at the last moment to go on. Calvina Fay of the Drug Free America Foundation complained that the debate moderator also supported drug-law reform.The event, billed "A Conservative Drug Policy? A Mini Debate on the War on Drugs," went on anyway, with drug-war defender Gary Cobb substituting for Fay."There is a growing split," Nadelman said after he'd finished his presentation to the conservatives.As on many issues, social conservatives and libertarian conservatives see the drug question quite differently. But Nadelman said he notices more openness among younger conservatives who've started growing weary of the just-say-no and lock-'em-up-forever approaches to drug abuse. These younger conservatives are more open to drug treatment instead of prison and to the "harm reduction" movement that seeks to replace anti-drug preaching with practical steps that actually save lives."Just the fact that we're discussing this in such a setting," Nadelman said. "It's really exciting." Source: Newsday (NY)Author: Ellis HenicanPublished: February 12, 2006Copyright: 2006 Newsday Inc.Contact: letters newsday.comWebsite: http://www.newsday.com/CannabisNews Justice Archiveshttp://cannabisnews.com/news/list/justice.shtml
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Comment #96 posted by FoM on February 14, 2006 at 16:25:28 PT
Toker00
It's creepy for me too but I hope that people understand how people from years ago can recognize the serious problems with drugs that can often kill even if they take many years to kill.
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Comment #95 posted by Toker00 on February 14, 2006 at 16:21:30 PT
Milk blood.
Yep, that's it. I've seen it done way too many times. But that was twenty-five years ago. Haven't seen it since, and prefer not to. I'm glad, for once, that I was afraid of something. It saved my life. Those experiments I told you about were just that. I did not like it, I loved it, and I put it down and walked away from it. Just wish I had done that with Alcohol, as well. Oh well, better late than never, huh?Wage peace on war. END CANNABIS PROHIBITION NOW!
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Comment #94 posted by FoM on February 14, 2006 at 10:12:28 PT
museman
I bet Neil Young will be remembered long after presidents are totally forgotten. The reviews are really good on Heart of Gold. I thought you'd like to see the pictures.http://news.search.yahoo.com/search/news?p=neil+young&ei=UTF-8&fl=0&fr=&c=news_photos
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Comment #93 posted by FoM on February 14, 2006 at 08:17:41 PT
Toker00
A while ago we talked about the song The Needle and the Damage Done. I thought I knew what milk blood meant and this link seems to confirm what I thought. http://launch.groups.yahoo.com/group/rust/message/151403http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ier01c3OtNw&search=neil%20young
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Comment #92 posted by FoM on February 14, 2006 at 06:56:22 PT
Toker00
Sometimes I think I live inside this little box and my name could be called Hal. Mind you now, I'm a nice Hal though! LOL!
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Comment #91 posted by FoM on February 14, 2006 at 06:54:33 PT
SirEbram
You're welcome. Have a great day today!
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Comment #90 posted by Toker00 on February 14, 2006 at 03:42:21 PT
Ok, HAL. LOL
Yes and the wind and rain are fierce out here. Trolls lerk about. You never know what's just around the next Post!Wage peace on war. END CANNABIS PROHIBITION NOW!
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Comment #89 posted by SirEbram on February 14, 2006 at 00:28:03 PT
May the satyam of peace & love abound
It's 11:58 PM right now, and I have to wake up at 8:00 AM to go to pre-G.E.D. class.I really want to say something, but all I can think of at the moment is congratulations for all your ensightful wisdoms.Man I love what you brothers and sisters are saying!(whig, toker, FoM, museman -et cetera) as for assembling our collective consciousness, complimentary to our unique, yet relative life experiences, in an effort to establish a closer connection to the sacred serums of our motherly earth(the keeper and cultivator of the roots and the glorious rainbow guide in the sky) I can almost taste the new wine of Joshua's vineyard, upon these graceful threads. They are like holy cosmic snakes, that have a powerful healing medicine, for all the people of the world, in each and every bite... like a spiraling lighthouse in the midst of a raging sea, guiding distant ships on the horizon of the four directions.Your wisdom, which I see as a reflection of the one great wisdom, is a mystical and magical road map on the high way to life!lolGood night everybody and sweet dreams!
MY GIFT TO YOU
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Comment #88 posted by Hope on February 13, 2006 at 20:28:42 PT
Quail
I would bet that somebody ate those quail, even if it wasn't Cheney. Many people really like quail and dove. Especially, quail. They're sooo sweet though. I couldn't kill them. They are precious things. They are beautiful. I've cooked quail, but not dove. I could not eat a dove either.
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Comment #87 posted by FoM on February 13, 2006 at 19:45:34 PT
OK Toker00
I just stoked the fire and I'll keep it warm in here since it gets real cold out there. You can call me Hal! LOL!
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Comment #86 posted by Toker00 on February 13, 2006 at 19:39:32 PT
You CAN'T go FoM. lol
You have to keep the home fires burning right hear. We have to have a place to bring the results of our journeys. Cast your pearls right here, like you have for years!Wage peace on war. END CANNABIS PROHBITION NOW!
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Comment #85 posted by FoM on February 13, 2006 at 19:09:25 PT
Hey Over Here a Minute Toker00
No no no no I won't go. The Internet is scary out there but on a serious note I won't cast my pearls before swine! Now you can laugh!
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Comment #84 posted by Toker00 on February 13, 2006 at 19:00:05 PT
I hear ya FoM. And soon.
Hey, Whig. I still understand what you are saying. I wonder if we could like, I know this sounds simplistic, go to a particular site where people need enlightenment, and as a group, register and post like we do here. Travel about the 'net in unison, and cover more territory with our messages of Truth. It would absolutely be neccessary to have certain of you guys with the wisdom and the talent to express it, be with us each time. You know who you are. Not sites where there are already an abundance of those like us posting already, but regular, non-political forums where the average person hangs. I'm sure we would get banned from some, but the ones where we COULD enlighten, that would be great! Plant a seed here, plant a seed there. It would just simply be cool to have meetings, also, when possible, of those of us who have time and means to travel a reasonable distance once or twice a year, and meet in person. Depending on where we are, would depend who in our group would/could meet. We could gather at someone's place who can't travel. I dunno. Just wondering.Wage peace on war. END CANNABIS PROHBITION NOW!
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Comment #83 posted by FoM on February 13, 2006 at 17:54:38 PT
Toker00
Your comment was really uplifting to me. While storms swirl around us we keep on keepin on. I haven't really heard anything about Steve or Jerry. I hope we hear something soon.
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Comment #82 posted by Toker00 on February 13, 2006 at 17:34:39 PT
We are the Church.
What we do here is cool with me. The Church is not a building, but a recognition of, a calling to, a respect for, an adherence to, the Truth. We are the Holders of Truth. Sharing that Truth by posting what is in our hearts/minds here, lets others recognize that piece of Truth that makes their understanding more complete. So we are the Church. The Living Church. Seekers, Protectors, Holders of the Truth. We are impacting the Anti's with every key stroke we make. They don't have to admit it, and we don't have to prove it. But we are. We have posted so many little pieces of Truth and Hope and Faith here, that anyone reading here for long, will be impacted by it. Everyone has talked to someone and made a difference, by presenting evidence of the harm caused by the WoSD, the scope of corruption in our government, the conspiracy through the ages of the Elite to rule the world. Each post we make is magnified by the number of people who read here. At least SOME will carry these truths to their area of the world, and share it. Some won't recognize a single shread of Truth we post here. But once it is in their subconscience, they WILL be affected by it. They will have another experience that will bring these truths to light, and at that time, the Truth will be recognized. Or the next time...I make my minute contribution to the Church. What I like to do is read what others write, inspired by prophets, poets, authors, spiritualists whom I have not heard or read about. Like I said before, I was busy doing NOTHING as a young adult, and it is a pleasure to come here and read what others collected and are sharing with us. I thank you all for being here.Thank you God for Cannabis. Watch over our Brothers and Sisters who are in the belly of the Beast for accepting your holy gift. Jerry Sisson and Steve Kubby are in my prayers tonight.Wage peace on war. END CANNABIS PROHIBITION NOW!
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Comment #81 posted by global_warming on February 13, 2006 at 14:34:02 PT
that road
is a long long far away,funny how some decisions,are made on that road,guess, if you are on that'bus,never really mattered,as long as 'you were on that 'bus,have an open hand,for it my be that open hand,can recieve that next place,before, the Light,in the 'line your standing,look forward, there is an open hand,along this path
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Comment #80 posted by global_warming on February 13, 2006 at 14:24:15 PT
Your
so very 'welcome
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Comment #79 posted by Hope on February 13, 2006 at 14:21:28 PT
gw
Thank you.
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Comment #78 posted by global_warming on February 13, 2006 at 14:17:11 PT
God Willing
you shall be a witness
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Comment #77 posted by Hope on February 13, 2006 at 14:11:59 PT
Actually...
I've seen a lot of flat out miracles. I intend to see some more...God willing.
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Comment #76 posted by global_warming on February 13, 2006 at 14:01:16 PT
i thought for a moment
about mine own misunderstanding,I quickly dismissed such errant thoughts,for has it not been written,that this world is a gift from God,
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Comment #75 posted by Hope on February 13, 2006 at 13:55:51 PT
All that "stoking" and "embers"
I thought for a second I might be misunderstanding.Those "other" sort of embers...that would do my heart good, too, probably.:0)
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Comment #74 posted by Hope on February 13, 2006 at 13:53:12 PT
gw
Many people think I'm sooooo orgainzed. I try so hard to be. I like knowing where things are and I don't want to give a snake a place to lurk or hide...or whatever it is they do when they aren't biting something.But as far as the organization ....like organizations...with meetings and times and dues and schedules and arrggghhhh!!!!! Rules! I like "freestyle"...with education...teach me.
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Comment #73 posted by global_warming on February 13, 2006 at 13:43:46 PT
yes mam
them same smouldering coals,whose smothered Light,has pierced this entire Universe,
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Comment #72 posted by Hope on February 13, 2006 at 13:42:11 PT
gw
You know I got them "embers". Full load. Stoked. Firing clean.Well maybe not. You are talking about the Holy Spirit? Are you not?
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Comment #71 posted by FoM on February 13, 2006 at 13:41:23 PT
Hope
I look at free thinking as one of the neatest things on earth to behold. A free thinking person will allow their mind to go to places that might help them grow and understand better. Did He give me the gift of visionNot knowing what I might see?When God made me...
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Comment #70 posted by Hope on February 13, 2006 at 13:40:09 PT
Neil Young voting for Regan...
I thought he was Canadian...but I thought, maybe he had dual citizenship. I heard him sing earlier today. He has comfort in his voice. He's a comforting soul.
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Comment #69 posted by global_warming on February 13, 2006 at 13:39:08 PT
is that some wildflower
on that prarie,you don't sound too organized to me,maybe you have some embers,in your breast,from the coals of eternity,
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Comment #68 posted by Hope on February 13, 2006 at 13:35:50 PT
Let me hear you Sister!
Don't organize me!
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Comment #67 posted by FoM on February 13, 2006 at 13:34:40 PT
Hope
That is exactly how I feel. Wow thanks! I never was very good at being corraled by anything. That's the free spirit in me I believe.Please, please, plaease.....don't organize me!
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Comment #66 posted by Hope on February 13, 2006 at 13:31:04 PT
Please! Please! Please!
In the style of James Brown...Please! Please! Please!Don't organize me!
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Comment #65 posted by Hope on February 13, 2006 at 13:29:33 PT
Don' organize us into something organized!
We're here. That's good enough!Isn't it?Don't organize me...I belong wild and free...don't organize me...on the lonely prarie!:0)Please, please, plaease.....don't organize me!
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Comment #64 posted by FoM on February 13, 2006 at 13:19:15 PT
museman
A small error on my part. Neil Young didn't vote for Reagan. He's a Canadian.
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Comment #63 posted by global_warming on February 13, 2006 at 13:09:15 PT
a link
http://rense.com/general69/mj.htmThere are only us 'we the people, we think we are liberal or conservitive,yet 'we must be fed..
Marijuana - Through The Haze
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Comment #62 posted by museman on February 13, 2006 at 13:02:29 PT
Peace church
Oh, I wrote such a nice reply to this last night, spent about an hour composing it, then hit some d*mn key that closed my browser. I was too tired, so decided to wait till today to post on it. However I see that most of my points, and similar statements have all been made;"Where two or more are gathered..." The idea of establishing cannabis as a Sacrament ceratainly appeals to me, but the idea of 'church' sends me packing."We've been doing it for a while. I'm just thinking of how we can do more. The Church has been concealed for two millennia. The Visible Church is a simulacrum, a fake. The empire in disguise."My Guru said; "When you pray, don't go out in public and make a big deal of it, like the Scribes and Pharisees, but go into your closet and pray in secret." (paraphrased)In 1978 I discovered the Rainbow Family. At the time I thought I'd found the 'true church.' The idea of sacrament was widely practiced, and there were many circles of fellowship, and congregation. The entire gathering became my 'religion' for a number of years. Practicing truth has a way of causing the BS to rise to the surface, so for me personally, I have to say that even that great promise and hope was dashed to the ground by simple egotism, and the arrogance of those few who thought they were 'more rainbow' than the rest of us. Add to that the growing rise of alcoholism and government infiltrators, and by the mid 80's for me it was all over.I wish to speak more on this, but of a sudden I have other issues jumping into my moment...later guys.
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Comment #61 posted by FoM on February 13, 2006 at 12:49:54 PT
museman
Here's a link called Neil Young and Ronald Reagan. Maybe he wasn't a supporter and got misquoted. I wish I knew how to help Mrs. Runruff. Has she called and do they say how he is if she has?http://www.thrasherswheat.org/ptma/reagan.htm
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Comment #60 posted by museman on February 13, 2006 at 12:36:06 PT
Runruff info
Alas, there isn't much. I am happy to report that herbdoc has made the connection to the NORML lawyers, and the dialogue and exchange of information relating to the case is underway. Linda is concerned that Jerry hasn't called her. If anyone knows how to force through a connection from the outside-to get Jerry to a phone, that info would be very welcome.
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Comment #59 posted by museman on February 13, 2006 at 12:31:48 PT
FoM
He voted for Reagan!? Oh well. I was referring to when he voted, and campaigned heavily for Clinton in the '90s.Did he really vote for Reagan?
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Comment #58 posted by FoM on February 13, 2006 at 08:17:46 PT
whig
I understand where you are coming from. I believe like Toker00 that where two or more are gathered ...I was raised and spent much of my life in organized religion and I will never get involved in organized religion again. When religion is organized it begins to take on man made viewpoints and soon those man made viewpoints become necessary to the religion and that's why religion and me just don't mix anymore.
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Comment #57 posted by whig on February 13, 2006 at 03:53:49 PT
Toker00 - Peace Church
No priests. No pulpit. None of us should be above another. We are all brothers and sisters, and more than that, we are all parts of one body.Having an online presence is good for outreach, conversation, and what we do here is largely that now. I don't know if CNews should remain our primary church but I think that it is now. This is our home. We can have more than one. We should.We should not try to replicate the THC Ministry. They exist for a purpose of creating a legal shell. We aren't a shell. We're the real thing.I don't want to do legal filings, for the same reason my wife and I didn't get a license to marry. Our religion is not a privilege. We aren't asking for tax exemption. We don't need to create a corporate fiction. We are the Church and we pre-exist the state.If we do this openly and right, we do not hide in fear of being persecuted. We know what may happen, but we are rightful and we have Truth power on our side. Satyagraha.You're right that we're already doing it here and now. We've been doing it for a while. I'm just thinking of how we can do more. The Church has been concealed for two millennia. The Visible Church is a simulacrum, a fake. The empire in disguise.We don't have doctrine. We have friendship. We have love. We have understanding, which we share with one another to help us all grow together. The closest parallel organization is the Religious Society of Friends (Quakers), albeit they too have forgotten cannabis, or rather, they do not have Anemnesis yet.I'm glad I'm not the only one who thinks this is a good idea, I hope there are more of us that think so.
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Comment #56 posted by Toker00 on February 13, 2006 at 03:17:38 PT
Peace Church
Whig, would you be Priest/Preacher/Pastor? If not, who would be? How about everyone taking turns at the pulpit? What if we gathered first at a site online at a specific time/day (Sunday), established membership, gathered donations, do the legal filing or whatever for church status, and have online services, first? Do any churches have online services? We could use our sacrement in our own homes, with no building for the cops to come bust, but we could talk about building one. I'm sure there is enough talent in our group to build one. I am a carpenter. Wait a minute. We are doing that right here. Anyplace two (or is it three) or more people gather to talk about and give thanks to God, is a church. cannabisnews.com IS our online church. Sort of. What are the actual steps required by law to establish a church? What would be our doctrine? What ceremonies would we observe? What if we just had church quarterly, at one of our own homes? That would be time between services to save money for the trip and sacrement.Sorry. You got me inspired there, Whig. You have a great point to establish a religious/medicinal defense/church. Let's hear more.Wage peace on war. END CANNABIS PROHIBITION NOW!
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Comment #55 posted by whig on February 13, 2006 at 00:33:02 PT
SirEbram
Sweet site!
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Comment #54 posted by SirEbram on February 13, 2006 at 00:25:02 PT
Cannabis is an Herb, not a drug. Herbs are natural
Good night (buenos naches)peace of mind and sweet dreams everybody!
PLEASE VISIT MY (NOT ENTIRELY UNRELATED) WEBSITE
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Comment #53 posted by FoM on February 12, 2006 at 23:06:06 PT
museman
Glad you liked the songs. He was born in 45 so he was 26 when he did these songs. His voice did sound very young. I know he voted for Reagan and what you said it was he thought Reagan was going to do but he didn't. I haven't read one even slightly bad review of Heart of Gold.
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Comment #52 posted by whig on February 12, 2006 at 22:53:45 PT
Pot Bible
The Ethiopian Zion Coptic Church
- Template for our Peace Churchhttp://www.druglibrary.org/schaffer/hemp/potbible.htm
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Comment #51 posted by museman on February 12, 2006 at 22:53:00 PT
FoM
Listening now. Talk about takin' me back. The minstrel. This is one of the great things about the internet. Boy after listenig to these there's no doubt about who was the major contributor to CSN&Y duiring that era.A lot of acoustic guitar players got juiced by this stuff. Those who didn't write 'em could still play 'em. I played these long before I began to create my own.Man he sounds so young! I heard a pun the other night. A fairly well known actress, in referring to 'Heart of Gold' she said "I'm always on the lookout for new Young talent."I also remember in 1993 or 94, Neil sitting there in an ABC 'town meeting' standing up and saying "Mr. president, we voted for you because you promised change. When is it going to happen?"A role model of Spirit and Freedom of there ever was one."Big birds flying across the sky throwing shadows on our eyes..."
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Comment #50 posted by whig on February 12, 2006 at 22:21:15 PT
Peace Church rules
Other substances would never be welcome. Not tobacco, not alcohol, much less ecstasy or meth or heroin. We are not passing judgment on what else people might do at other places and times, but not within our Peace Church.
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Comment #49 posted by whig on February 12, 2006 at 22:19:19 PT
Peace Church
I would like to propose an idea, still just gestational, but I'd like input on whether and why you think it might be a good one or not.Suppose we establish a Peace Church in one or more locations, a place where people may come, and to which they are welcome to bring cannabis to share with one another, but from which no cannabis may be taken away. This would not be a secret, we would say quite clearly that cannabis is our Eucharist and sacrament. Moreover we would welcome all who need cannabis for medical purposes to come and partake, without any pressure upon them to join our church.No one would ever be charged to enter, nor could anyone engage in commerce of any kind in our space without being invited to leave. We would not provide storage, what people brought would be for them to consume or dispose. Those who broke our rules would not be invited to return unless we had satisfaction they understood and would not do so again.If the state wanted to persecute us, they could do so, but everyone within the church would have either a religious or medical defense to prosecution. We would offer no violent resistance. Our power would be purely Satyagraha: truth force. We might be attacked, we might be made to suffer, but we would offer no violence in our defense.None of this is set in stone, it is a brainstorm, but I hope it's at least a starting point for more discussion.
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Comment #48 posted by whig on February 12, 2006 at 22:04:28 PT
Satyagraha
Mahatma Gandhi and His Mythshttp://www.markshep.com/nonviolence/Myths.html
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Comment #47 posted by FoM on February 12, 2006 at 21:38:25 PT
museman
I just downloaded these songs and I wasn't sure if you or anyone would be interested in them too. Neil Young: Going Back To Canada [no label, 2CD]Live in Canada, Jan 19, 1971. A soundboard stereo recording. http://www.bigomagazine.com/archive/ARrarities06/ARnymassey.html
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Comment #46 posted by whig on February 12, 2006 at 20:32:30 PT
Abolition then and now
We are for abolition of cannabis prohibition. It's worth looking at abolition sentiment before Lincoln to understand that he didn't come to power in order to free the slaves. Rather, Northern sentiment had turned so sharply against slavery that it was necessary for him to adopt the abolitionist position in order to obtain and hold power. Lincoln did not free the slaves, the abolitionists like Lysander Spooner did, through their writings and their encouragement of SOCIAL opposition.Here and now, as we help one another and the public to understand how prohibition is HURTING people, our families, our friends, our neighbors, ourselves, as we show how it is causing needless suffering and violence, as we talk about all the good that will come when people have medicine to treat their pain without risk of overdose, as we continue to push all of these issues forward and more, we remove the sanction of the public for politicians who want to continue prohibition. They don't care about our issue, apart from some few exceptions that couldn't possibly make a political difference EXCEPT that they will adopt the issue when it serves themselves.I hope I'm being clear, because it seems like it might be an awfully subtle point. I'm saying that the prohibition will end when people stop believing in it, and we can make that happen, we are making that happen, one day at a time, one person at a time, one step at a time, inexorably. There won't be a politician who will save us, but I bet that there will be one who will PRETEND to when the time seems ripe enough.
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Comment #45 posted by FoM on February 12, 2006 at 20:27:29 PT
Whig
Fox Hunting was done where I lived in eastern pa for the gathering of all the people and horses. Most hunts were called drag hunts. American hunting clubs don't want to kill the fox. It's a day of horses in high spirits prancing and snorting and high tailing it around the grounds and adults and children being together doing something fast and exciting. The history of fox hunting isn't nice but american hunt clubs admired the fox. Sly as a fox is true. We would see the fox walk down the middle of a creek to make the hounds lose his scent. They would climb and walk on fences so the hounds would get confused. I never saw a scared fox though. He almost looked like get me if you can and luckily only that one time did it happen by mistake. After hours of hunting everyone goes to a hunt breakfast and is with all these people in front of a big walk in fireplace and talks about the day. Mostly I went to a yearly Thanksgiving Day Hunt. No one can understand how it is an event that is worthy except those who know how challenging it is. I hate to see the tradition go but I understand why some people don't understand and think it's cruel. It really is about the people and horses and beautiful hounds.
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Comment #44 posted by museman on February 12, 2006 at 20:20:40 PT
Had Enough
You still play?
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Comment #43 posted by whig on February 12, 2006 at 20:19:11 PT
Apropos quote
Abraham Lincoln: "If I could save the Union without freeing any slave I would do it."
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Comment #42 posted by whig on February 12, 2006 at 20:18:00 PT
afterburner
All political parties will sell-out when they have a chance to take power. They'll weigh whether they can trade-off this issue for that one, they'll hold on to whatever core issue they need to get elected. After a few election cycles, though, even this will be up for sale if it is thought necessary to hold power.
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Comment #41 posted by afterburner on February 12, 2006 at 20:12:38 PT
Politics as Usual: Australian Greens Sell-out
Australia: Backflip by Greens on Marijuana
http://www.mapinc.org/drugnews/v06/n177/a05.html"THE Tasmanian Greens party has axed its long-held policy calling for the legalisation of marijuana in a major policy backflip designed to win mainstream votes."North American Green Parties be forwarned: if you follow this foolish political sell-out, I, for one, will not vote for any Green Party candidates!
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Comment #40 posted by whig on February 12, 2006 at 20:08:36 PT
Hunting/Shooting
My grandfather had a friend that used to hunt deer, and brought us back venison. I have nothing against this, it's a way of being self-sufficient for some people if they ever had to be, and there is nothing cruel or wasteful about it.I've shot at gun ranges before, and shot skeet as well.I don't think it's right to kill an animal purely for sport, though. I don't know what I think about fox hunting to be honest, because I bet that fox was really terrified. I'm not judging, either, because I've done things when I was younger that I wouldn't do today, and I've been needlessly cruel and it has caused me some anguish when I've had to look back on everything and try to make right what I could. Some things just can't be taken back, either. So none of us are perfect, but what we have done in the past versus what we are doing now is also an important distinction. Everyone can change.
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Comment #39 posted by FoM on February 12, 2006 at 19:52:04 PT
I See Whig
Thanks Whig. When I went fox hunting (riding horses) we didn't kill the fox. They didn't want to kill the fox. So I hunted for sport but killing wasn't a part of it. Only one time did a fox get killed and everyone was very upset.
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Comment #38 posted by whig on February 12, 2006 at 19:46:18 PT
FoM
They aren't hunting for food, they're hunting for SPORT.Tells you something about him, right there.
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Comment #37 posted by FoM on February 12, 2006 at 19:44:10 PT
Whig
Why do they shoot birds with something that sprays? Is that right the way I'm saying it? Would that make a bird full of pellets if you want to eat it? ***Excerpt: "The vice-president didn't see him," she told the Associated Press news agency. "He picked out a bird and shot and, my God, Harry was in the line of fire and got peppered pretty good."It broke the skin," she said. "It knocked him silly. But he was fine. He was talking. His eyes were open. It didn't get in his eyes or anything like that."http://www.guardian.co.uk/usa/story/0,,1708599,00.html
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Comment #36 posted by whig on February 12, 2006 at 19:34:33 PT
FoM
At first reporting I thought this story about Cheney's hunting accident was no big deal, but they held this story for 24 hours and contrary to the "just a flesh wound" reporting the guy was still in intensive care this evening.
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Comment #35 posted by FoM on February 12, 2006 at 16:44:33 PT
rchandar
It really is something about Cheney.
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Comment #34 posted by museman on February 12, 2006 at 16:39:13 PT:
Runruffswife
Here it is.
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Comment #33 posted by rchandar on February 12, 2006 at 16:37:50 PT:
looking for things amiss...
hey, read the article on MSNBC. Dick Cheney just shot one of his best friends (accidentally).
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Comment #32 posted by FoM on February 12, 2006 at 16:33:59 PT
museman and runruffswife
Hi runruffswife! I hope you are holding up ok. We love you.museman, music is so important to me. I listen to music almost all day. It is part of my life. What over the years I've noticed about myself is I can remember lyrics to a song even if I haven't heard it in years but I might not remember what president was in office at a given time or what they did while they were in office. Music and it's message stays with me.
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Comment #31 posted by Had Enough on February 12, 2006 at 16:28:16 PT
The Long & Winding Roads
museman We have walked similar paths. Fender Precision. Love that sound. But; I'm no poet, but I have contributed.Good to hear from you Mrs. Runruff. Have you hugged your dogs today?
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Comment #30 posted by museman on February 12, 2006 at 16:22:54 PT
Music
from had_enoughs link;"There will come a day when music and its philosophy will become the religion of humanity...If there remains any magic it is music."It's a labor of love.
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Comment #29 posted by runruffswife on February 12, 2006 at 16:21:20 PT:
museman
museman, what's your email?
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Comment #28 posted by runruffswife on February 12, 2006 at 16:19:54 PT:
runruff
Hi. Still no word from RunRuff. He flew out to MA a week ago today. Please write to him at:Jerry Sisson #66424-065
FMC Devens
Federal Medical Center
P.O. Box 879
Devens, MA 01434Blessings and Love, Mrs. RunRuff
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Comment #27 posted by museman on February 12, 2006 at 16:19:21 PT
Had_Enough
Not quite 'saintly' but I do it;http://www.mixposure.com/fam/music
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Comment #26 posted by Had Enough on February 12, 2006 at 16:11:41 PT
Music Sweet Sweet Music
Music is behind the working of the whole universe. Music is not only life's greatest object, but music is life itself...Music being the most exalted of the arts, the work of the composer is no less than the work of a saint.From Whig's Linkhttp://www.pbs.org/wnet/americanmasters/database/marley_b.html
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Comment #25 posted by john wayne on February 12, 2006 at 16:03:49 PT
Prayer time
again.
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Comment #24 posted by global_warming on February 12, 2006 at 15:11:46 PT
it has always been
weight's and Measures,it was those 'measures,that have crept by,the true scales,those eternal scales,just whisper,
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Comment #23 posted by global_warming on February 12, 2006 at 15:04:22 PT
and that 'page
will be printed on the finest paper,it will be made of Cannabis,for a start,
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Comment #22 posted by Had Enough on February 12, 2006 at 15:03:50 PT
Weights and Measures
99.9% preoccupation with one's 'own business' offered littleYes museman, I caught that too. When it was happening. Pointed it out to people, received standard answer, “ What do I care”. Society went downhill fast after that. It turned into a “give me all your money civilization” Now I hear some of those same people complain about the way things have turned out. And when something unjust enters their lives, they really hoot and holler, and think the world is against them. Ounces of prevention are worth tons of cure.
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Comment #21 posted by global_warming on February 12, 2006 at 14:53:10 PT
there is another
he died two thousand and six years,to this date,it was a very bad way to go,since that moment,'we have gathered,a force that has been called a religion,that is aka *also known),as the HOLY SPIRIT,it is us who bring Hope and Lightthere is a new day coming,a new page in 'this chapter,
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Comment #20 posted by museman on February 12, 2006 at 14:50:15 PT
G_W#17
Ah, but the increments have been too far apart, and too few. Until the recent time acceleration, 99.9% preoccupation with one's 'own business' offered little fertile ground for such seed of which we speak to grow.The good news is coming up,the bad news is going down,and all anyone ever had to dowas choose one or the other.
http://wholeearthfamily.org
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Comment #19 posted by global_warming on February 12, 2006 at 14:28:15 PT
thats funny,
john wayne has been dead almost a decade,
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Comment #18 posted by john wayne on February 12, 2006 at 14:24:32 PT
Dream on
I just realized Bob Marley's been dead for a quarter century.
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Comment #17 posted by global_warming on February 12, 2006 at 14:05:34 PT
remember
each generation,has consistently offered an 'open hand,with each new wave,there has been a new soft hand,that is more closely alinged with justice, truth,who knows,maybe them children,have that 'twinkle in their eye,it's just like old Tennesee Ford used to sing,if the 'right one don't get you,then the 'left one will,
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Comment #16 posted by global_warming on February 12, 2006 at 13:44:36 PT
14 and some more
look at your history book,changes like this have occured,often with the lose of 'human blood,yet 'we, those people,are here 'today,as witness, that 'we can bring a sweeter tasting fruit,to our civilization.
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Comment #15 posted by whig on February 12, 2006 at 13:27:41 PT
Had Enough
Bob Marley Light of the Trinity Berhane Selassie shows the way.http://www.pbs.org/wnet/americanmasters/database/marley_b.htmlSo we can't compare Marley to other well-known musical figures. As for politics, he eschewed them, although his actions caused him to be perceived (and sometimes feared) as a profoundly radical political leader too. But his were the anti-politics of salvation through love and love alone, an unshakeable knowledge of the oneness of all humankind.
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Comment #14 posted by john wayne on February 12, 2006 at 13:18:04 PT
Drug War hugely successful, don't be fooled
>> Please, how does any of that promote the values that principled conservatives hold dear? Tons of cops needed to enforce, so then there's kinda like a large quasi-military governmental class completely dependant on conservative prohibition agenda.Any more questions?
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Comment #13 posted by Had Enough on February 12, 2006 at 12:58:09 PT
Get Up - Stand Up
It will take Republicans, Democrats, Libertarians, Greens, Courts, Lawyers, Media, the Voting Public, others, and a bunch of money to turn things around. All these things combined will do it, but how long will it take. That’s my thoughts.Register and Vote!!! Take a friend along with you.Bob Marley and the Wailershttp://www.bobmarley.com/
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Comment #12 posted by museman on February 12, 2006 at 12:26:56 PT
"Republicans and Conservatism"
Firstly I would have to say, that bigotry, prejudice, and class distinction have no place in the politics of a so called 'democratic' government, supposedly 'of the people'.Secondly I would have to say that I have seen very little of anything but those aforementioned human failings in the Republican party, since I left the ranks of the Young Republicans in 1976, and voted for Jimmmy Carter. I watched the agenda of the power elite unfold like a childrens pop-up story. In those many years, I haven't seen much on the 'Democrat' side that was too much different, except that the Dems at least have social programs aimed at making peoples lives a little better. At this point when GWB stood up before the richest people in the world, and chuckled when he called them his "base," I just don't see how any conscientious citizen who is actually concerned with the state of the people more than the state of the rich, could support the Republican agenda.It is obvious to me that too many people want to believe the BS and lies that comes out of the current REPUBLICAN regime, or else we wouldn't be having these problems. It is too easy for some numbnut like Clueless George to hire a speech writer that concentrates on Right Wing Religious axioms, empty words that sound good but are directly in contrast to the ACTUAL DEEDS being done not only by this administration, but an overwhelming majority of Republicans in power. This PROHIBITION has 'Republican" written all over it.Conservatism, from the stand point of the contemporary republican party, is conserving only the status quo, preserving the un-natural 'right' of the power elite to rule all the rest of creation.If I sound bitter, it's because I have been forced to submit, time and time again to stupidity, ignorance, and calculated meanness on the part of the government, most specially in this WOD which by the way is an illegal, and unconstitutional war against the citizens of the United States, authored, supported, and perpetuated by the Republican party. If I were to adapt a similar attitude found so prevalent amongst prominent republicans, I would be screaming to have 'em lined up and shot. I am not a supporter of world-wide destruction, pollution, war, destruction, and death so I am not like them. Of course, this is all my opinion, though I am quite confident that both the available facts, (if actually looked at) and future history will bear me out.
http://wholeearthfamily.org
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Comment #11 posted by ryno35 on February 12, 2006 at 11:30:50 PT
Response to Rep. Mark Souder
In fact Mr. Souder you are not a conservative. Conservatism stands for freedom, and conservatism stands for limited Government. It's the ultra-liberal organizations like the United Nations that so desperately hold onto the global war on drugs because they understand how much power it affords governments to control the people. It makes sense for them to hold that ideology. It makes no sense for a conservative. I'm in my early thirties and although the Republican party is full of folks like you I will always be Republican because I know we're always on the right side of intellectual arguments like this one and I know that some day most Republicans will see the folly in prohibition. Then it will be the Republicans that lead us out of this catastrophe by the will of the people. Not from the courts like some on this site would like to see it.
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Comment #10 posted by siege on February 12, 2006 at 11:03:36 PT
DFAF
Calvina Fay of the Drug Free America Foundation complained that the debate moderator also supported drug-law reform:
When you walk out of a Debate, you either can not debate or are not prepared to Debate! If it be [one or 500], it is all the same to the Debater... To get the point across, be it negative or affirmatively, SO this just goes to show how irresponsible ""Drug Free America Foundation"" IS, to teach our children, about Drugs...
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Comment #9 posted by global_warming on February 12, 2006 at 09:23:02 PT
nice, very nice..
Maybe there is Hope, I wouldn't hold my breathe for souder and other rabid prohibitionists, it would take a sledge hammer to let some Light into that thick skull, where old mark and john would suddenly realize that in this God Loving Democracy, they are now a minority, and the majority has seen some Light.
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Comment #8 posted by rchandar on February 12, 2006 at 08:22:43 PT:
storm crow's comment
yes, that would be discrimination--almost like saying women are exempt. but what you're describing is disturbing because it's well known that California has decriminalized pot, that it's like a speeding ticket when caught with small amounts. that only means that a lot of cops are trumping up charges--bringing in empty bags and seeds as "paraphenalia," seizing weapons not used in any crime, etc., etc. Decriminalization as it was written into law in the early 70's promised a noble beginning for justice; I only hope it's applied fairly.(It couldn't be that bad, like it is in Florida.)--rchandar
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Comment #7 posted by FoM on February 12, 2006 at 08:21:31 PT
Related Article from The Journal Gazette
Excerpt: One panel on the war on drugs drew the ire of Rep. Mark Souder, R-3rd, who said conservatives should refuse to speak at the event because the panel was top-heavy with participants who advocate a loosening of drug laws.
He said a conservative convention should reflect conservative thought and that proposals to legalize marijuana for medical use are not conservative approaches.Complete Article: http://www.fortwayne.com/mld/journalgazette/13855019.htm
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Comment #6 posted by FoM on February 12, 2006 at 08:03:44 PT
Storm Crow
Thanks for the update. Please keep us posted on what might happen.
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Comment #5 posted by Storm Crow on February 12, 2006 at 07:58:18 PT
A bit of California news...
Our governor is proposing that, to relieve prison crowding, we should release nonviolent female prisoners. Since many of them are in prison for marijuana "crimes", I think this (if it comes about) would qualify as very good news for the cannabis community and all of their families. If it DOES happen, then we have to start making noise about a "gender equality" release for the men! You can't discriminate on the basis of gender--it's the law!
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Comment #4 posted by FoM on February 12, 2006 at 07:40:43 PT
Just a Note
I haven't found any news to post so far but I'll keep looking. As far as this article goes I just don't have anything to say. I do hope that when the democrats have an event that the reform organizations have someone that will take part and represent us.
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Comment #3 posted by OverwhelmSam on February 12, 2006 at 05:03:45 PT
The Drug War
Is not only anti-conservative, it's flat out unconstitutional! I have a right to smlke marijuana in the privacy of my own home. Not a privledge, a RIGHT.
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Comment #2 posted by whig on February 11, 2006 at 23:01:31 PT
FoM
I should have pointed out it was a mostly conservative legal blog.
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Comment #1 posted by whig on February 11, 2006 at 23:00:11 PT
Nice timing
I was participating on a legal blog and the subject of cannabis prohibition had just come up an instant before you posted this article.
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