cannabisnews.com: Lighter Marijuana Punishments Sought
Lighter Marijuana Punishments Sought
Posted by CN Staff on February 07, 2006 at 07:59:20 PT
By Suzanne Edwards
Source: Daily Texan
Texas -- Today is the last day for students to show support for a referendum calling for UT to reduce penalties for the use and possession of marijuana.A local branch of the public education group Safer Alternative for Enjoyable Recreation has been collecting signatures since mid-January to place the referendum on the upcoming student election ballot.
The referendum asks that the University's punishment for the use and possession of marijuana be no more severe than the punishment for illegal drinking, because the effects of alcohol are more dangerous than the effects of marijuana, said Ann Del Llano, SAFER Austin coordinator.The University drug policy states that UT will impose a minimum disciplinary penalty of suspension for a specified period of time or suspension of rights, privileges or both for the use, possession or distribution of drugs prohibited by state, federal or local law, according to the UT Web site. Punishment for alcohol-related incidents will be imposed for "conduct related to the unlawful use" of alcohol, according to the Web site.Juan Gonzales, UT vice president for student affairs, declined to comment Monday.The referendum that SAFER is advocating would end the differences in severity of punishment."We really feel the need to stress the harmful effects of alcohol. When people are dying, the University needs to take it seriously," Del Llano said, referring to the December death of Phanta "Jack" Phoummarath.Phoummarath, a UT freshman, was found dead from alcohol poisoning at the Lambda Phi Epsilon fraternity house the day after a party at the house. The fraternity was suspended as a registered student organization for six years. Phoummarath's family has filed a wrongful death lawsuit against the fraternity.SAFER has to collect 861 valid student signatures by 4 p.m. today, or the referendum will not be added to the ballot.SAFER originated on the campuses of University of Colorado at Boulder and Colorado State University after two Colorado students died from alcohol poisoning in January 2005. UT students took interest at the Drug Policy Conference in Long Beach, Fla., in November, Del Llano said.Note: Group asks students to vote to lessen action against possessors.Source: Daily Texan (TX Edu)Author: Suzanne EdwardsPublished: February 7, 2006Copyright: 2006 Daily TexanContact: editor dailytexanonline.com Website: http://www.dailytexanonline.com/Safer Choicehttp://www.saferchoice.org/CannabisNews -- Cannabis Archiveshttp://cannabisnews.com/news/list/cannabis.shtml
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Comment #129 posted by observer on March 11, 2009 at 12:25:58 PT
Driving While Black through Tenaha, Texas
Driving through Tenaha, Texas, doesn't pay for somehttp://drugsense.org/url/p35YpKqpA lawsuit alleges that the town's police pull over motorists -- especially African Americans -- and extort money and valuables by threatening criminal charges or worse.By Howard Witt, March 11, 2009 latimes.comReporting from Tenaha, Texas -- You can drive into this dusty fleck of a town near the Texas-Louisiana state line if you're African American, but you might not be able to drive out of it -- at least not with your car, your cash, your jewelry or other valuables.That's because the police here allegedly have found a way to strip motorists, many of them black, of their property without ever charging them with a crime. Instead they offer out-of-towners a grim choice: Sign over your belongings to the town, or face felony charges of money laundering or other serious crimes...http://drugsense.org/url/p35YpKqp
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Comment #128 posted by observer on December 21, 2007 at 22:51:00 PT
Drug War Still Racist, Even in 'Liberal' Austin
Drug War Still Racist, Even in 'Liberal' Austinhttp://drugsense.org/url/179W12AF(Dec 7, 2007 texascivilrightsreview.org article)
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Comment #127 posted by global_warming on February 12, 2006 at 12:13:54 PT
who has 'real power?
the flesh is so weak, yet it is the mind,when grafted with a soul, that has tapped into a fountain of infinite power,yup, it is those tired eyes, crusted with dried up tears,that has caught a glimpse, has seen into the eyes of his master,has seen that disease, much like a virus,that has infected and clouded the eyes,that are those portals to the soul,ah, yes, there is no soul,there is no God..
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Comment #126 posted by whig on February 11, 2006 at 15:15:02 PT
Hope
Ron Paul is sort of the exception to prove the rule, but he has no real power. It is inconceivable to me that we change things from the top-down. We change the SOCIAL construct, we change what the PEOPLE know, and how we relate to one another, and EVERYTHING changes. Because then the politicians cannot stand against us.
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Comment #125 posted by Hope on February 11, 2006 at 14:14:32 PT
Ron Paul
seems to me, an honorable man.I have no reason to believe otherwise.
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Comment #124 posted by runderwo on February 11, 2006 at 14:11:43 PT
whig
Check out this site: http://www.thelibertycommittee.org/Also go the linked blog: http://www.moreliberty.org/We are not alone. Just in a minority.
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Comment #123 posted by whig on February 10, 2006 at 19:38:29 PT
runderwo
"Obviously it's not impossible for honorable and devoted people to serve in political office."How is this obvious?
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Comment #122 posted by whig on February 10, 2006 at 19:34:17 PT
Invisible post
This one you can read, global warming.Much that is written in plain sight is yet invisible to most.I saw your filler there a moment ago, and your crossroad is also the road of the cross.One road is the way of justice, and one is mercy street.Words have meanings, and more than one.Meanings have words, but the words are not the meanings.You say goodbye, and I say hello. Hello. Hello.Will you prosecute the human race now? Or will you forgive us?
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Comment #121 posted by global_warming on February 10, 2006 at 17:36:59 PT
post 121
continues, into 'infinity,into the belly of this universe,post 122is posted, on the backs of this world,it is invisible,it is a 'ghost,much like the holy ghost,that is in 'your bosoms,and the darkness', comprehended 'it not.
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Comment #120 posted by global_warming on February 10, 2006 at 16:57:47 PT
decorum
in this forumhas been that moment,when you could catch that glimpse,twinkle, in one blink of your eye,that next 'breath,that 'funny feeling,when you can laugh like a child,
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Comment #119 posted by global_warming on February 10, 2006 at 16:41:51 PT
some filler
Luk 4:1 Then Jesus returned from the Jordan, full of the Holy Spirit, and was led by the Spirit in the wilderness Luk 4:2 for 40 days to be tempted by the Devil. He ate nothing during those days, and when they were over, He was hungry. Luk 4:3 The Devil said to Him, "If You are the Son of God, tell this stone to become bread." Luk 4:4 But Jesus answered him, "It is written: Man must not live on bread alone."Luk 4:5 So he took Him up and showed Him all the kingdoms of the world in a moment of time. Luk 4:6 The Devil said to Him, "I will give You their splendor and all this authority, because it has been given over to me, and I can give it to anyone I want. Luk 4:7 If You, then, will worship me, all will be Yours."
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Comment #118 posted by runderwo on February 10, 2006 at 16:39:12 PT
whig
Don't get me wrong. I think politicians are almost invariably scumbags. (And I was not defending the LP, rather what sounded like an attack on libertarian principles.) But you only have so many choices. The real question is what is so wrong with our values that causes scum to rise to the top. Obviously it's not impossible for honorable and devoted people to serve in political office. So why do we have so much scum serving alongside them? And why do we feel so helpless when a scumbag is in office and performs scumbaggery on an ongoing basis?
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Comment #117 posted by global_warming on February 10, 2006 at 16:35:26 PT
in the meantime
old John that is Mr. Walters,has it "all" figured out,Can anybody laugh in the middle of their eulogy?
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Comment #116 posted by global_warming on February 10, 2006 at 15:53:57 PT
thanks
whig, mercy street, sounded good this am, i wonder if this mess can ever be changed?there are so many people who are literally "brainwashed" into believing that this war on drugs/people who use drugs, is an acceptable societal operation, they have great difficulty in seeing above the government imposed "propaganda", they have swallowed the government lie, hook line and sinker.In the meantime, the government is forcing their "religion" down everybody's throat, they proselytize in the schools to those most young, they bring "policemen and women" into schools, forcing their religion into childrens minds, a religion, i might add, that is filled with treachery and deceit, a religion, that is hoplessly doomed to defeat.Is this mortal clay so easily deceived?
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Comment #115 posted by whig on February 09, 2006 at 21:00:24 PT
runderwo
Tell you what. Let's agree to disagree about the LP for now, because I was involved in the LP in the past and I've also been involved in the Republican and Democratic parties at other times, and when the purpose of the organization is to run candidates and get them elected, high principles go out the window.
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Comment #114 posted by ekim on February 09, 2006 at 20:09:32 PT
great gw
express your self we all all different but so very alike.
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Comment #113 posted by runderwo on February 09, 2006 at 19:01:58 PT
whig
"That the LP stands for property first, and freedom second"I think this is where you are confused. No libertarian would ever put property above freedom. That is fascism. And I'm not sure where slavery comes into it. Life, liberty, and pursuit of happiness - in that order.You can very well sign a contract selling yourself into indentured servitude. The only difference from slavery is that you can't be held captive against your will. That doesn't mean that you aren't breaching the contract and thus liable for the remainder when you decide you are leaving. The difference is that you can choose to leave and to face the consequences for your false promise, slaves did not have that choice.Anyway, even the most rabid propertarians do not advocate slavery unless I have missed something. Even if they failed to respect the order of precedence of Life, Liberty, and the pursuit of happiness (as you claim above), it doesn't matter - your right to the pursuit of happiness through claiming me as property does not trump my right to liberty in any case. There is no such thing as a right to remove others' rights.
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Comment #112 posted by whig on February 09, 2006 at 18:45:16 PT
global_warming
Music for you.http://tinyurl.com/bsvvz
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Comment #111 posted by whig on February 09, 2006 at 18:40:37 PT
global_warming
IntegrationLet what has been torn asunder be again bound together, to do the work. We join our love with our anger, our tears with our joy, and bend together with a common purpose to see the job done.
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Comment #110 posted by whig on February 09, 2006 at 18:30:54 PT
global_warming
You are safe, do not fear. He will not harm a hair on your head if you do not let him trick you into doing it to yourself. Be not too quickly obedient, but test everything he says, and know that if you act with love you can make any repairs that you must. You will come through this.Nobody here laughs at you. I see you there in the crossroad. It is a lot like a roller coaster, isn't it? But just like a roller coaster, every time you seem to rise and swiftly fall, you remain secure and unharmed.
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Comment #109 posted by Hope on February 09, 2006 at 17:44:06 PT
Oh....gw
Sometimes you fly so far over my head I can barely see you.
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Comment #108 posted by global_warming on February 09, 2006 at 16:50:28 PT
that 'was bowels
imagine 'all this shit,here, today,best to forget,bow deeply,listen to the voiceof your 'Lordhe will pay you,
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Comment #107 posted by global_warming on February 09, 2006 at 16:25:36 PT
'we have graduated
High School,'we have a 'diploma..'maybe, someday,we can be 'president,of this united states,and,may that 'forgotten god,ForeverForgivewhen that 'time arrives,for there are so many of uswho have tasted the blessed breaththat has been givenfrom covenantsin the bowls of this earth,
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Comment #106 posted by global_warming on February 09, 2006 at 16:13:06 PT
this is
not a test
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Comment #105 posted by global_warming on February 09, 2006 at 16:12:02 PT
dumped my cache
is any of you laughing?this gets back to ownership,
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Comment #104 posted by global_warming on February 09, 2006 at 16:04:09 PT
could i own you?
with those beautiful painted eyes?much like my own my first gasp,that filled my eyes,with your beauty,
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Comment #103 posted by whig on February 09, 2006 at 15:53:04 PT
global_warming
When wrestling with an angel, remember to love, and you will come through this.
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Comment #102 posted by global_warming on February 09, 2006 at 15:52:21 PT
could i own you?
with those beautiful painted eyes?much like my own my first gasp,that filled my eyes,with your beauty,
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Comment #101 posted by Hope on February 09, 2006 at 15:20:28 PT
And gw
Thank you for answering my post. I was worried about you.Why...you may ask?I guess, I care.I do.
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Comment #100 posted by Hope on February 09, 2006 at 15:18:44 PT
But then again...
Trying to understand the poet.You could be having a happy fest with someone to love.And too busy? with the woman with the painted eyes?I'd rather think that,Than that she's grieving you.:0)Hang in there.
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Comment #99 posted by Hope on February 09, 2006 at 15:13:56 PT
I thank God...
I don't forget you or ever forget your burdens...the ones I know of. Hang in there, gw
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Comment #98 posted by global_warming on February 09, 2006 at 14:52:29 PT
i'm here
but i am not ok,wrestling with some angel,with the most beautiful painted eyes,it seems that so many people are happy to hold an old dried up drumstick, from a silly chicken leg, that some, still use,to salute.
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Comment #97 posted by Hope on February 09, 2006 at 13:01:24 PT
gw
You can share some of the load here. If you will. Maybe?I know you bear many great and grievous sorrows.
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Comment #96 posted by Hope on February 09, 2006 at 12:58:49 PT
gw
Are you ok? I'm worried about you.I'm afraid your many griefs are bearing hard on you.
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Comment #95 posted by whig on February 09, 2006 at 10:22:05 PT
runderwo
I asked: "If I own myself, can I sell myself into slavery?"You replied: "Of course. What differently do you do when you go to work every day in exchange for a paycheck?"I don't do that, but if I did it would still not be slavery as long as I could quit at will. Voluntary trade is not slavery. Compulsory service is.Also, I think you misread the intent behind my question. I didn't mean to ask whether it was POSSIBLE to be enslaved, but whether it was morally rightful. People have LEGALLY owned people, "property" in people is an historical fact if we discount the moral principle which denies the rightfulness of this practice.In the modern era, many people are compelled by circumstances to slave for some master or other in order to obtain the basic requirements of survival, food and shelter. That some permutation of slavery persists does not make it right either. That the LP stands for property first, and freedom second, would perpetuate the status quo and deny genuine liberty to the vast majority for the sake of a privileged few."And I know you distrust the LP, that is why I was careful to separate libertarian principle from the national LP. I don't think the LP is perfect either, but they are the best of several poor choices for my vote."Libertarian principle is separate from the LP, because the LP is propertarian. There are no libertarian candidates for public office because libertarians do not run for office and they do not have political parties. Liberty is not something that is obtained by seeking power over other people, it is letting go of authority and letting people make choices for themselves, offering help and support to one another without compulsion. The idea of a libertarian political party is simply an oxymoron.There is another choice for your vote. You may pocket it. Voting for anyone is voting for the system, and consenting to be bound by the outcome."Propertarianism, as promoted by the LP, follows from the right to the pursuit of happiness. It only follows because property is equivalent to happiness for the majority of Americans."It does not. Propertarianism is the LOVE OF MONEY dressed up and pretending to be equivalent to LOVE FOR PEOPLE. They are not remotely the same, and money cannot buy happiness.
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Comment #94 posted by runderwo on February 09, 2006 at 09:05:09 PT:
BGreen
Let me know if you head out to any of the shows. I'll be under the CNews tent! ;)
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Comment #93 posted by BGreen on February 08, 2006 at 23:29:00 PT
Pursuit of Happiness ... Yeah, Right!
I've finally realized that the only thing this really means is the pursuit of us to take away our life and/or liberty for their happiness.Just more worthless words on that document that has been rendered worthless by this president and his evil cohorts.The Reverend Bud GreenBTW, runderwo, I've never been to Schwagstock, but it sounds really cool. I've always been more interested in performing than attending, but maybe one of these days Mrs. Green and I might make it out there.
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Comment #92 posted by runderwo on February 08, 2006 at 22:50:13 PT
whig
Thank for the thoughtful reply. Just a few comments."If I own myself, can I sell myself into slavery?"Of course. What differently do you do when you go to work every day in exchange for a paycheck?And I know you distrust the LP, that is why I was careful to separate libertarian principle from the national LP. I don't think the LP is perfect either, but they are the best of several poor choices for my vote.Propertarianism, as promoted by the LP, follows from the right to the pursuit of happiness. It only follows because property is equivalent to happiness for the majority of Americans. If a recognizable portion of Americans began to pursue happiness in other manners, then propertarianism would fall out of favor as the applied form of the pursuit of happiness.Coincidentally, that the pursuit of happiness is enumerated as an inalienable right in our country's founding document lends even more shakiness to the moral foundations of prohibition.
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Comment #91 posted by Had Enough on February 08, 2006 at 16:43:14 PT
Now on CNN
Nerve agent found in Russell Office Building
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Comment #90 posted by FoM on February 08, 2006 at 16:39:03 PT
Had Enough
When we were starting out because of no opportunity to get FHA housing at that time in PA we moved to Ohio. My husband made $2.50 and hour and we got a brand new modular home. We paid $77 a month and if we couldn't afford it and we had good reason to show why we couldn't afford it we didn't have to pay for a 6 month period. That was called a moratorium. Without the governments help we wouldn't be in a home with a conventional mortage and a little security. Insurance is something we need as a society since almost every country in the developed world helps with medical care and I don't know why we can't. Buy drugs in bulk like the VA and lower the prices for everyone.
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Comment #89 posted by Hope on February 08, 2006 at 16:36:53 PT
This country used to have so many ragged,
shoeless, hungry children. I remember them.
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Comment #88 posted by Had Enough on February 08, 2006 at 16:17:20 PT
FoM
I have no problem with taxpayer money going to people who need and can use it. I wish that Dr. Williams had used another example. There are people who need and deserve a helping hand that will never get it due to the abuses of others. Dr. Williams probably hasn’t a clue about how some people work and change careers just so they can get medical insurance. He has probably heard but not experienced it. What kind of American Dream is that? Change your life path to get covered with insurance? Healthcare, Food, and Housing should be available to all. It shouldn’t have to be a right, it should just be available. However his piece covers a part of our off topic discussion about taking property and rights from others. That is the part of interest to me.I do not subscribe to the dog eat dog world, although at times we all have to deal with it one way or another. I try to walk carefully when have to enter those arenas.
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Comment #87 posted by FoM on February 08, 2006 at 15:51:48 PT
Had Enough
When I read something like this I wonder if we are like animals in the sense that it's survival of the fittest. Maybe I didn't understand it right though since political articles just don't work very well for me and my value structure. I have no problem with my tax dollars helping those that don't have the opportunity or maybe even the intelligence to get a stable life for themselves. I am my brother's keeper. I sure don't want my tax dollars to be used to fuel the war machine but I know they are used for that. As far as law I don't know but I think in line of what I should do because it's the right thing to do.
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Comment #86 posted by Had Enough on February 08, 2006 at 15:43:11 PT
Bogus rights
Received this via email about 3 hrs ago. It's on topic to our off topic stuff. Coincidence???Bogus rights
By Walter E. WilliamsFeb 8, 2006Do people have a right to medical treatment whether or not they can pay? What about a right to food or decent housing? Would a U.S. Supreme Court justice hold that these are rights just like those enumerated in our Bill of Rights? In order to have any hope of coherently answering these questions, we have to decide what is a right. The way our Constitution's framers used the term, a right is something that exists simultaneously among people and imposes no obligation on another. For example, the right to free speech, or freedom to travel, is something we all simultaneously possess. My right to free speech or freedom to travel imposes no obligation upon another except that of non-interference. In other words, my exercising my right to speech or travel requires absolutely nothing from you and in no way diminishes any of your rights. Contrast that vision of a right to so-called rights to medical care, food or decent housing, independent of whether a person can pay. Those are not rights in the sense that free speech and freedom of travel are rights. If it is said that a person has rights to medical care, food and housing, and has no means of paying, how does he enjoy them? There's no Santa Claus or Tooth Fairy who provides them. You say, "The Congress provides for those rights." Not quite. Congress does not have any resources of its very own. The only way Congress can give one American something is to first, through the use of intimidation, threats and coercion, take it from another American. So-called rights to medical care, food and decent housing impose an obligation on some other American who, through the tax code, must be denied his right to his earnings. In other words, when Congress gives one American a right to something he didn't earn, it takes away the right of another American to something he did earn. If this bogus concept of rights were applied to free speech rights and freedom to travel, my free speech rights would impose financial obligations on others to provide me with an auditorium and microphone. My right to travel freely would require that the government take the earnings of others to provide me with airplane tickets and hotel accommodations. Philosopher John Locke's vision of natural law guided the founders of our nation. Our Declaration of Independence expresses that vision, declaring, "We hold these Truths to be self-evident, that all Men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty, and the Pursuit of Happiness." Government is necessary, but the only rights we can delegate to government are the ones we possess. For example, we all have a natural right to defend ourselves against predators. Since we possess that right, we can delegate authority to government to defend us. By contrast, we don't have a natural right to take the property of one person to give to another; therefore, we cannot legitimately delegate such authority to government. The real tragedy for our nation is that any politician who holds the values of liberty that our founders held would be soundly defeated in today's political arena. Dr. Williams has served on the faculty of George Mason University in Fairfax, VA, as John M. Olin Distinguished Professor of Economics, since 1980.
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Comment #85 posted by ekim on February 08, 2006 at 15:20:02 PT
Ottawa Citizen
Canada: Vic Toews - Election-Law Violator Becomes Top LawmakerURL: http://www.mapinc.org/drugnews/v06/n162/a03.html
Newshawk: CMAP http://www.mapinc.org/cmap
Webpage: http://www.canada.com/ottawacitizen/news/story.html?id=722da8b0-7ba2-4e36-aca6-761a932264b
Pubdate: Tue, 07 Feb 2006
Source: Ottawa Citizen (CN ON)
Copyright: 2006 The Ottawa Citizen
Contact: letters thecitizen.canwest.com
Website: http://www.canada.com/ottawa/ottawacitizen/
Details: http://www.mapinc.org/media/326
Author: Janice Tibbetts, The Ottawa CitizenVIC TOEWS - ELECTION-LAW VIOLATOR BECOMES TOP LAWMAKER Vic Toews assumed the job as Canada's top lawmaker yesterday under the cloud of a conviction for breaking the law by spending more than the legal limit in his failed bid to win a provincial election. While there is no legal impediment to Mr. Toews taking over the justice post, Opposition leader Bill Graham said "there's a moral and ethical problem that Toews will have to explain." In appointing Mr. Toews, Prime Minister Stephen Harper went for a hardline choice to oversee the Conservatives' ambitious law-and-order agenda that focuses on stiffer punishment for criminals, including youths. [Remainder snipped]
http://www.mapinc.org/drugnews
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Comment #84 posted by FoM on February 08, 2006 at 15:05:26 PT
Just a Thought
I haven't seen anything about any of the web sites that went down. Could it be something as simple as getting behind in money owed to whoever you pay the money to?
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Comment #83 posted by FoM on February 08, 2006 at 15:00:26 PT
John's Murderer
I believe the man who killed John Lennon was just a person who was mentally ill. It isn't uncommon for someone sick to stalk someone famous unfortunately.
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Comment #82 posted by Had Enough on February 08, 2006 at 14:57:06 PT
John's Murderer
The mind can be a terrible thing.
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Comment #81 posted by Toker00 on February 08, 2006 at 14:51:17 PT
Seriously Whig,
I don't know. I see his murder as THE most worthless, senseless, selfish act anyone could have possibly come up with. I don't know if his murder was done by one man, or a conspiracy. I'm just not sure. One man's selfishness killed a whole generations inspiration. Total cruelty. Total madness.Wage peace on war. END CANNABIS PROHIBITION NOW!
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Comment #80 posted by Toker00 on February 08, 2006 at 14:43:54 PT
Whig
Why do you think John Lennon was killed? #51Probably for all those wonderful things he did with Yoko and their bodies. Nudity only offends those who are ashamed of the human body. I don't mean lude, crude, pornographic nudity, just natural nudity. I don't have a problem with nudity. Or pornography, if it is done with respect, never forced, and always with consenting, legal adults. Something beautiful can be made ugly with misuse/abuse. Just like with drugs. Oh yeah. And they killed him because he preached love and not war. That, and he taught us all to how to IMAGINE...Hey, John Ashcroft, read this! TITS! LOL!Wage peace on war. END CANNABIS PROHIBITION NOW!
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Comment #79 posted by museman on February 08, 2006 at 14:29:34 PT
Had Enough
Exactly.Thanks for the added focus/info. I get sooo much out of this, I have to regulate my time so I don't let my other stuff slide too far into dust collecting.
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Comment #78 posted by Had Enough on February 08, 2006 at 13:38:57 PT
museman #66
Yes museman I know about imminent domain. I saw 2 cases close by. Both friends. One guy was self employed and had been raised in that house. His parents passed it on to him. His was the last one in the line of properties to be taken over. If you looked at the engineering reasons why the property was included it was questionable if they needed his property. It was at the end of the storm water runoff system that was coming with the road. He had little funding to fight it as much as he wanted, but he did raise a fuss and I think he got a little more than the first dollar amount suggested, but not it’s true value.The second guy is pretty well off and has the character that usually accompanies people like that; I’m sure you know what I mean. He has a small dive bar that he rents out to others, right in the way of an access road to a major highway. He cut off about 10 feet of the building, hired attorneys and so on. Basically blasted them with paper work, and was a royal pain in the ear. They ended up building the road around the dumpy bar. Now there is a curve in this road right before the intersection and it is very dangerous. I know of at least 4 incidents where drivers went off the curve right in to the side of the building. Had this building been bulldozed as needed, and as it should have been, the curve in the road would not be as sharp as it is.Money not common since prevailed here.Now lately with all these properties being imminent domained out, then handed over to private interests seems outright illegal to me, but the Supreme Court has given their ok. It doesn't seem right at all. I think people will try to have that reversed sooner or later. Maybe when they come for their property, they will change their minds. As far as guarantees are concerned I don’t think there are many in life other than the basic two. I enjoy your posts, keep them coming.
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Comment #77 posted by museman on February 08, 2006 at 13:21:45 PT
Hope
In this war on people, called WOD, I have learned to have care, yet the truth often requires a bit of risk. If I am to be attacked for speaking the truth, I can think of no better way to go.Standing up is the American patriotic thing to do. I have a few smoker friends who say that "Smoking herb is their "Patriotic Duty." All of them are vets by the way.thanks for your concern however.
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Comment #76 posted by FoM on February 08, 2006 at 12:53:57 PT
museman
I saw and heard Chris Matthews from MSNBC talking to someone about blogs. He said there is no checking for facts on the Internet. No checking for accuracy. What about that he said. The man he was talking to said that is the price to have this form of communication. It goes with it and that's the way it is. That's not word for word but close. The TV News channels must hate bloggers unless they need a story because they will find the truth and ideas on the Net.
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Comment #75 posted by museman on February 08, 2006 at 12:48:40 PT
FoM
"Yea verily I say unto you; The truth shall set you free."This new medium is the peoples, and the powers sure don't like it.
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Comment #74 posted by FoM on February 08, 2006 at 12:46:22 PT
museman
I believe you. There is something different now. We can tell the world when we are being wronged. The Internet will help people like no other way.
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Comment #73 posted by museman on February 08, 2006 at 12:40:04 PT
FoM
"I know they could take our property but they would have to pay something for it."Yes, but under Imminent Domain they devalue it immensely. If you don't have resource, and they can be sure you won't make waves, they can say and do just about what ever they like to get your land.I remember a situation many years ago;A black woman living in a house that had been her ex-slave grandfathers, in Winslow Arizona was made to move because the new interstate (I-40 I beleive) was palnned through her property. There was a public outcry of sorts by a few people. I wrote a letter to LBJ..got my first White -House form letter.The woman was given about $600 by the feds, and put out on the street with all of her meager possessions. They tore down the house and Americans drive over that land every day.If one hasn't been down to where the poor folks live, if they haven't tasted poverty, they just don't know. The contrast in the world between the rich and every one else is EXTREMELY out of balance. The current world situation from war to global warming is directly linked to this problem.
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Comment #72 posted by FoM on February 08, 2006 at 12:26:33 PT
museman
I know they could take our property but they would have to pay something for it. If we hadn't qualified back in 73 for an FHA home we wouldn't be where we are today. We paid low payments and after 7 years we sold the house and made enough to put money down on our land and then we got a construction loan and built this house ourselves. Any other way we couldn't have done it either.
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Comment #71 posted by Hope on February 08, 2006 at 12:24:10 PT
Oh!
is more accurate of what I meant.
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Comment #70 posted by Hope on February 08, 2006 at 12:23:26 PT
Oh...
Be careful, Museman. Be careful.
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Comment #69 posted by museman on February 08, 2006 at 12:20:23 PT
FoM: property
Imminent Domain is totally unrelated to drug seizures. It could happen if your land is in the way of state or federal planned construction, like a highway or road. If the Gov wants to put an underground nuclear silo on your property...What is land tax? It is touted as funding for schools and the like, yet the schools and the like don't have what they need. Where does the money go? Iraq, and the major corporations who are carpetbagging the middle east.The money comes from the rich and goes to the rich.Now the prices of land are so high, and the taxes are so high, in order to actually 'own' the deed you must already be independantly wealthy, or have one hell of a high-paying career. For about 70-80% of the population land ownership is not a viable option.
http://generation.no-ip.org
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Comment #68 posted by museman on February 08, 2006 at 12:10:42 PT
Hope
Yes good to be back.My entire home network was compromised. Every machine has turned up at least one trojan virus, includng the ones that were fire-walled and had anti-virus. I do not known for sure but I may be under attack. There are some very weird things going on here right now.A local store owner is under investigation by Homeland Security, who've been trying to find 'buried buses full of pot and guns.'I don't have enough details to give you, but before the week is out I intend to go up there (it's at a small lake resort near here) and interview the store owner, I have played music there every summer for a few years now, so we know each other. I was warned not to use the phone, or I would have called for the info.The war is here!
http://wholeearthfamily.org
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Comment #67 posted by FoM on February 08, 2006 at 12:06:13 PT
museman
I am against seizing of property. Oregon doesn't do that I don't think anymore.
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Comment #66 posted by museman on February 08, 2006 at 12:02:31 PT
property
"If the people do not own property, it will be owned by the State. Owned by the State is too closely aligned with communism or socialism."Perhaps you have never heard of "Imminent Domain?" I my life time I have seen it at work.The only guarantee a landowner has is directly asociated with his socio/political worth. If you are a poor landowner with no resources, the local or federal authorities can sieze it for any number of reasons.Propriety itself is the cause of so much wrong in the world."Imagine no possessions, I wonder if you can..."
http://wholeearthfamily.org
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Comment #65 posted by Hope on February 08, 2006 at 11:45:57 PT
Museman!
Glad you made it through!
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Comment #64 posted by museman on February 08, 2006 at 11:43:27 PT
Cannabis,alcohol #5
"Years ago alcohol was snubbed by those who were looking for another and better way. You didn't see alcohol at gatherings of people."That was before the WOD. After people started getting busted (before the war, the marijuanna laws were generally looked at by everyone, including the local cops as obsolete and mostly,un-enforced.) When Reagan did it, the first thing that happened was the price rose drasticly, whereas beer was still a cheap high.Beer had less social stigma after that because it was legal.I know too many decent brothers who took up drinking to fill the space. A lot of them are dead now from alcohol related tragedy. I've seen the brightest minds turn into mush. The fact that cops, and a lot of lawyers and politicans do a lot of drinking, ought to send up flags of warning and danger. If our leaders are all half brain-dead from drinking. Add to it the fact that American breweries [with the possible exception of some modern micro-brewers] produce heavy chemically laced product, to make it less effective, and more addictive, and what we have here is a population of numbnuts who couldn't hold a conversation requiring intellect and vocabulary, not because they aren't scholars, or intellects, but because they have no brains left! This could be one of the biggest problems we have to face in our efforts to educate the public. If the public is alcoholic, they can't be educated about anything.
http://wholeearthfamily.org
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Comment #63 posted by ekim on February 08, 2006 at 11:18:53 PT
Famm working to help those in prison now
FAMM files friend of the Court brief in Supreme Court on good time issue
On January 18, 2005, FAMM filed an amicus brief asking the Supreme Court to review O’ Donald v. Johns, No. 05-8504, because the case, challenging the Bureau of Prisons’ calculation of good time credit, “presents a question of great practical and legal significance.” FAMM has long argued that the BOP misconstrues federal law when it calculates the 54 days credit prisoners may earn for every year of their term of imprisonment based not on the sentence imposed but on the time the prisoner serves. This bad math results in a loss of 7 days a year of freedom to every eligible prisoner. FAMM told the Court that the issue presented by O’Donald “directly affects the length of the sentences that will be served by well over 150,000 prisoners in the custody of the Bureau of Prisons.” Read more and download our amicus brief.
http://www.famm.org
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Comment #62 posted by FoM on February 08, 2006 at 10:49:50 PT
Hope
I am sure he would be proud of you. Thanks for all you are doing. All any of us should be doing is to do our best to light one little candle. Yesterday a lady on CNN said that we would never have another Martin Luther King but we do have the Choir and it's up to us what we do with it now.
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Comment #61 posted by Hope on February 08, 2006 at 10:44:48 PT
I'm sure that
John Wiley would be pleased to know his grandbaby...I was born before he died, is one to stand up for people who need standing up for.
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Comment #60 posted by Hope on February 08, 2006 at 10:42:00 PT
Comment 52 The Black Rancher Cattleman
We know he was black because of my Great Grandfather's complaints about the way his friend was sometimes treated.That same grandfather, well respected, as a cattleman and a leader, is famous in our community for riding his horse to the bank the day the banks failed during the Great Depression. He walked to the teller's cage, laid his six shooter on the ledge and said he only wanted his money. They gave it to him, too...and he rode away...into small rural town history.
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Comment #59 posted by Hope on February 08, 2006 at 10:33:54 PT
Oh, Whig...
I can't bear to read that article right now. It's too horrible. It would surely suck away too much of the strength I need for chores today. I'll read it tonight...so I can have bad dreams from it.Even though it seems we are impossibly slow to get it done...at least we know we are doing the right thing in fighting this persecution of our fellow humans.
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Comment #58 posted by Hope on February 08, 2006 at 10:28:16 PT
What the government is doing to
Runruff and his family is an atrocity. A true atrocity. We are trying to stop true atrocities from being inflicted on our fellow man. That my hard earned wages are used to do things like what is being doing done to Jerry Sisson, and Steve Kubby and his family...and what was being done to Steve Tuck and Ed Rosenthal, Tommy Chong, Peter McWilliams and a host of others. Well there are so many. So many. All the dead vicitims. All the destroyed futures...hopes and dreams. All the families ripped apart. The prohibitionists want to think drugs ripped those families apart. Wake up, Prohibitionists...it's you and your laws and your prison industries and drug testing industries that are doing the most harm to this people and this nation.Such a huge list of people that are decent people who have no business in jail or being persecuted by the state in any way...and my wages are being garnished to persecute and inprison them. They did nothing wrong. The laws are wrong. Any one with a smidgen of mind and concience knows that's true.I'm not saying that drug use or cannabis use within a family couldn't cause trouble. There is always trouble to one degree or another in life. Too much spending by one member of a family can cause a family to seperate. Adultery can. Religion can. But for these prohibitionists to insinuate themselves into every free American's life and cause all the trouble they do...and blame it on their victim...well...it must stop. It must.
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Comment #57 posted by whig on February 08, 2006 at 10:19:49 PT
OT: Moral disengagement
http://tinyurl.com/b2xvr
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Comment #56 posted by Hope on February 08, 2006 at 10:09:43 PT
We are as serious as Death.
What we are fighting against is serious. As a youth, I never dreamed I'd be in a fight, right here on American soil, for the liberty and freedom of Americans from other Americans. Yes. The reform movement is as serious as Death...with a capital D. The Lord knows, I feel that there are atrocities happening that could be stopped. If someone overdoses on anything...and thankfully, cannabis is not lethal...but if he does use something lethal, he hurts himself...and by his death, possibly others...but he hurts himself...he does it to himself. It makes no sense to pay someone to go in and hurt him to keep him from hurting himself. I don't want to pay people to hurt him to keep him from hurting himself. And the prohibitionist's "hurt" treatment spreads to and hurts total innocents. It shouldn't be that way. One stupid or risky act doesn't call for ten more on the part of the so called "saviors". I feel sad when people hurt themselves...no matter how they do it. It can make me sad when someone crashes their race car and dies or get's hurt...but it's not my business to stop them from doing what they want to do...race cars. But I feel a heck of a lot sadder and mad as....well very mad...angry...at the thought that I am paying for someone and their jackboots and weapons to go in there and shoot the poor fellow...or his neighbor...because he's using a possibly deadly drug. His "race car" runs through his veins or flies up his nose.
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Comment #55 posted by whig on February 08, 2006 at 09:46:27 PT
Hope
A lot of different issues are interrelated and we dance among them because we aren't too concerned about seeming serious all the time, even and especially when we really are serious.Sex, politics, death, slavery...prohibition.
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Comment #54 posted by FoM on February 08, 2006 at 09:45:00 PT
Hope
Thank you. I want to know these things. The older I get and the more I get to know you and everyone the more I want to learn about the viewpoints that separate us. I don't like division.
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Comment #53 posted by Hope on February 08, 2006 at 09:41:55 PT
Goodness!
While I was compiling that comment...we moved on to sex in government and why was John Lennon murdered! We move quickly here.
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Comment #52 posted by Hope on February 08, 2006 at 09:40:31 PT
FoM
Texas was never a big slavery state. That was before oil and we were a state of not many wealthy people who managed without slaves. We were hardscrabble farmers and ranchers more than anything. We got dragged into the Civil War quite a bit unwillingly. There were slaves, of course, but nothing like the level of what we think of as the Deep South. Texas, while we have our share of rascists, wasn't and isn't nearly as rascist as some folks were in the ancient days. One of my Great Grandfather's dearest friends was a black cowboy...cowpuncher/rancher. We have letters mentioning their friendship and records of their working together. They were cattlemen and both often moved their cattle together. They were very close friends.I lived in lots of places as a child and more than one was a small segregated community in Texas. We had some black families and no seperate schools in those communities. A friend of mine and classmate in the third grade was a very kind, sweet young man named, Edward. Edward was black. His skin color meant nothing to any of us children, for sure. Having already been desegregated, myself...I never understood what the fuss of the Deep South areas was about.Yes, some horrible things have happened here, like that man being dragged to death by those idiots a few years ago. I can tell you that no one I know wasn't outraged at that incident. Completely and devastatingly outraged.
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Comment #51 posted by whig on February 08, 2006 at 09:35:24 PT
Toker00
Why do you think John Lennon was killed?
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Comment #50 posted by Toker00 on February 08, 2006 at 09:29:11 PT
Sex in the White House or Anywhere else
terrifies the (I'm gonna call them) Disobedient Christians. The ones who turn away from what is natural and probably THE most entensly pleasant human emotion/physical experience possible. Now, Bush has gotten away, so far, with all these horrible things he's done to our country, but if he had gotten caught for the exact same thing Clinton did, he would not have been re-elected. They frown on the most beautiful experience and say nothing when we go to war over lies. Sex/passion - wrong, War/death/destruction - good. Say what??? I'd say the so-called Born Againers and Right Wingers in power right now are the ultimate Disobedient Christians. If ole' Bill boy had been discreet, like any man with a lick of sense in that situation, none of this Lewinski stuff would have occured, and Gore would have most certainly won the presidency, and the Republicans would have been as stuck out as they are gonna be come November.Now I know marriage was a factor with Bill's bolo, but if a married person gets to the point of adultery, is there really a marriage there to honor? And please don't underestimate the power of a female intent on seduction. They can conquer even the strongest of men. I was not offended by the act, but by the stupidity of Bill and Monica getting CAUGHT.Forgive any mispellings. I don't have spell check available since I did the last Firefox update. I STILL say: MAKE LOVE NOT WAR!Wage peace on war. END CANNABIS PROHIBITION NOW!
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Comment #49 posted by Hope on February 08, 2006 at 09:22:51 PT
Great comment, Whig...I agree
"...and don't get in the way of people pursuing what they want to do as long as they aren't hurting anyone because we LOVE them, and we WANT them to be happy."
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Comment #48 posted by FoM on February 08, 2006 at 09:07:36 PT
Whig
Dreams are what my life is built upon. Wishing and hoping and dreaming and some dreams do come true. I love my old house. It isn't a big beautiful house but it is ours. Dreams have always ruled my life.PS: Museman is having trouble posting. I have tried to figure out what is wrong but it is out of my league and I sent an e-mail to Matt Elrod and hopefully he can figure out what is wrong.
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Comment #47 posted by whig on February 08, 2006 at 08:53:23 PT
FoM
This old house of ours is built on dreams.And the LP doesn't know what that means either. Dreams aren't property, they just are. Blind people don't believe in rainbows.
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Comment #46 posted by FoM on February 08, 2006 at 08:45:54 PT
Wrong Song Title
The song I really like is from the CD American Dream but it's called This Old House. Here are the lyrics.http://www.bosco.net/human-highway/lyrics/lyrics-28.html#002
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Comment #45 posted by FoM on February 08, 2006 at 08:35:57 PT
Whig
Talking about owning our own home made me think of CSNY's song American Dream. I'm listening to it now. It is such a pretty song.http://www.bosco.net/human-highway/lyrics/lyrics-28.html
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Comment #44 posted by whig on February 08, 2006 at 08:28:12 PT
FoM
I know what you are saying and I'm not saying people should rent. The idea that people are property is what I'm arguing against. I don't think we should give any credibility to the idea that slavery could by justified on any basis. Self-ownership is something that tries to argue from premises of ownership of people, so I don't accept that.I could get into a lot of economic and political philosophy, there's a difference between property, possession and usufruct for instance. Bottom line is you should be able to possess your own land that you're using and keep the usufruct, but if you abandon your land then somebody else who comes along and wants to use it shouldn't have to pay you rent, because the land is not property either.So I don't agree with propertarianism, and I don't think it's genuine libertarianism, but the Libertarian Party is very much propertarian in orientation and isn't really libertarian, just like the Republican Party has little to do with genuine republicanism.
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Comment #43 posted by FoM on February 08, 2006 at 08:17:03 PT
Whig
I was taught to grow up, get married, buy a house and let the house be your security when I got old. Everyone in my family owns their own home and if we hadn't followed the american dream we would be renting and paying big prices to live in someone else's house or apartment. A renter makes money for the landlord but it won't benefit the renter just the landlord. I know the government can take it but they still have to pay us something for it if they do.
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Comment #42 posted by FoM on February 08, 2006 at 08:10:21 PT
Toker00
Thank you. I thought that the south got mad at Johnson because he did something for the blacks and since slavery was an issue in the south I thought that's what caused the switch to Republicans but that is only what I thought and I sure could be wrong.
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Comment #41 posted by whig on February 08, 2006 at 06:48:47 PT
Try this on
If people cannot be property, they cannot be property of the state. If people can be property, they can be property of the state, or of any kind of master. If people can be property, they can be slaves.Self-ownership requires that people be some kind of property. If I own myself, can I sell myself into slavery?If I cannot dispose of my property in this way, then what does it mean to own myself?If I can sell myself into slavery, who owns my children?Who owns God?We are part of God.Think about it.
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Comment #40 posted by whig on February 08, 2006 at 06:42:54 PT
Had Enough
"If the people do not own property, it will be owned by the State. Owned by the State is too closely aligned with communism or socialism. and that’s not for me. But that is only my thoughts on the matter."You presume the legitimacy of the state. I do not.
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Comment #39 posted by Had Enough on February 08, 2006 at 06:37:19 PT
Imaginary Boundaries & Deeds
Life, Liberty and the Pursuit of HappinessIf the people do not own property, it will be owned by the State. Owned by the State is too closely aligned with communism or socialism. and that’s not for me. But that is only my thoughts on the matter.
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Comment #38 posted by whig on February 08, 2006 at 06:07:43 PT
runderwo
"If you think libertarianism is about controlling people by force, you have been talking to the wrong people who self-describe as libertarians. You are correct about self-ownership, and I'm not sure where the obvious absurdity in that is - if you start with an axiom of free will, self-ownership follows as a necessity to carry out that free will."There's an enormous difference between libertarianism, properly defined, and the Libertarian Party. If you don't recognize this, you haven't seen what goes on in the LNC and state committees. Kickbacks and featherbedding were the sine qua non of the Harry Browne campaign, for instance. Plus, the same tendency exists at every level to choose the most mediagenic candidate over someone more principled, because their objective is to get votes. The LP is as corruptible as any political party, experience has shown this to be true in actuality and not just in theory.Suffice it to be said that I'm not ignorant of what I'm talking about. I'll point out that even Thomas Jefferson knew the danger of arguing that property is any kind of inherent right, which is why the Declaration of Independence refers only to Life, Liberty and the Pursuit of Happiness. You can't morally own people, so self-ownership is an oxymoronic basis for liberty.
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Comment #37 posted by Toker00 on February 08, 2006 at 03:50:04 PT
Sukoi, FoM
Thanks for the Texan support there, bro. It's hard living in a state with representatives like LBJ, DeLay, Bush, etc. but please believe us, we ain't our politicians! LOL.FoM, you are absolutely right in your assumption of religion being used as a political tool in the south. Southerners are spoon fed religion from birth to the grave. They live it, breath it, wallow in it. Why? Because it's EASIER THAN THINKING! They erroneously believe that going to church on Sunday, (Regardless of what you did Saturday night), backslapping the preacher and complimenting the ladies on their cherry pie, is the path to Salvation. Although Bush wasn't born in Texas, you can see what the culture did to him. He is a prime example of Southern Religion based Politics. Baffle them with Bullshit. There are areas of the South that are Clanish. If you don't know someone who knows someone, then you will not succeed in business or society in that area. I Promise this is true. I lived it.They are Republicans out of FEAR and IGNORANCE. Republicans are masters at manipulating these traits. Unfortunately, the south is a product of the experimentation called WELFARE. They were paid, you could say, to remain Ignorant. The people who continue to promote this ignorance should be hanged.The problems are not neccessarily with the Political Parties, but with the problems of GREED and LUST for POWER. All parties are vulnerable to corruption. Capitalism has no Cap. It allows for Ultimate Corruption. Otherwise, it works.Wage peace on war. END CANNABIS PROHIBITION NOW!
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Comment #36 posted by Had Enough on February 08, 2006 at 03:28:25 PT
runderwo Comment #34
That is very well written piece you have there. Well Done, Outstanding! Quite accurate.Don’t forget to register and Vote! Take a friend with you. I’ve Had Enough, and I’m sure you have too!
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Comment #35 posted by Max Flowers on February 08, 2006 at 01:53:46 PT
Constitutionalist Libertarianism
That has a nice ring to it both phonetically and philosophically, to me. I picture it as libertarianism undergirded by a commitment to make government stick to the intent and word of the Constitution.Hey, a guy can dream, can't he?
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Comment #34 posted by runderwo on February 08, 2006 at 00:33:09 PT
whig
If you think libertarianism is about controlling people by force, you have been talking to the wrong people who self-describe as libertarians. You are correct about self-ownership, and I'm not sure where the obvious absurdity in that is - if you start with an axiom of free will, self-ownership follows as a necessity to carry out that free will.Cooperation and community are excellent ideals, but every past attempt to force people to adhere to them has failed. The libertarian answer is to not force anyone to do anything - with the exception of forcing people to not force others, which preserves the right of self-ownership.Don't get me wrong, anyone is free to disagree with self-ownership or with the assumed natural rights derived from that, but to ascribe authoritarian traits to libertarianism is contradictory at an axiomatic level. A libertarian only wants to be in government to prevent people from using force against others, to provide maximum choice and self-determination while ensuring that my self-determination doesn't harm someone else. If that is an unacceptable ambition, then what government could possibly be acceptable?Also, be careful not to confuse business-friendly with corporate-friendly. A libertarian would never take a bribe in exchange for corporate-friendly policy, because a corporate-friendly policy means taking freedom or money from someone else and handing it to the corporation, a violation of principle. "We were just trying to make money" would not be an excuse for corporations harming people who did not conduct business with them, or for executives defrauding shareholders. You have to remember that corporations themselves are a government intrusion, and are automatically looked on with distrust by any true libertarian. What I mean there is if a corporation is getting a liability net (using everybody's money to fund that net), it better damn well mind its P's and Q's or it gets its charter revoked.Also the LP policy itself can be criticized as being not true to libertarian ideals. It helps clear things up to be careful about who the criticism is directed towards, is it the national LP's policies or is it the core libertarian philosophy that is wrong?One of the reasons I trust the Libertarian party is because they have a core philosophy that is consistent, and that it can serve as a guide line for policy decisions. If a policy seems bad on its face, it is probably because it is violating libertarian principle somewhere. And that can be used as an argument against that policy.How do you argue against Democrat or Republican policies? They have no principle. All that guides them is what feels good and what they can get away with. That form of government is too arbitrary and dangerous for me. A lot of people are comfortable with it though. Who am I to judge? All I know is that based on my beliefs, libertarianism is the correct political philosophy, and the Libertarian Party is the party who is most closely carrying out that philosophy in the real world. So it is easy to see that if you have different beliefs, libertarianism may not be for you, and even if you are a libertarian, you can disagree with the LP or with an individual politician who claims to be a libertarian.I only wish there were more parties that were guided by principle, so that the politicians of the day didn't lead voters into folly based on the silly brand identification that Republicans and Democrats are to most people. They are populist parties, they aren't interested in doing what's right, only what gets them the most votes. Some people see that as the pinnacle of democracy, but we have to remember that democracy has led to failure in every civilization to date. Eventually the people get cynical, then passive about the political corruption, once bought off with bread and circuses. Once the government becomes a joke, the society soon follows.It's only a matter of time between revolutions. A government that is against too many people's interests is a government that has become too big. It self-corrects in a peaceful manner through the feedback of the vote, or it self-corrects in a bloody manner when people have nothing left to lose. We want to extend peace for as long as possible, so we should use our vote to keep the size and scope of government in check. If the government is doing less, it is making less people angry. Sure, some people get angry at government's inaction, but that can always be redirected back onto them - why are you demanding that the government do this and that instead of organizing and doing it yourself? OK, I've probably talked myself into trouble so I'll stop here. I hope that explains how I think about things at least or at least provided you with some entertainment. Haha.
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Comment #33 posted by FoM on February 07, 2006 at 22:40:51 PT
Whig
I didn't know that. We own our little farm and I am glad we decided to build back in the late 70s. I don't invest in the Stock Market or chase money. Having a home with equity helps because we can sell it and have some extra money to live on as we get older if we want to sell it. This land is more that we are using it until we pass on then it goes to who we want to have and care for it.
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Comment #32 posted by whig on February 07, 2006 at 22:31:30 PT
FoM
The Libertarian Party isn't really libertarian, they are propertarian. That is to say, they believe that PROPERTY is the basis of LIBERTY, that liberty itself derives from a concept of "Self-Ownership." That this is an absurdity is clear to anyone who thinks about it, we don't OWN PROPERTY in what we ARE. I am. We are. There's no expression of property that makes sense here.Propertarianism leads to an almost religious belief in "capitalism" and the "free market" with the idea of COMPETITION being the highest value. This is similarly absurd. The most competitive environment is the state of nature, the absence of society, the lack of community, without anyone caring for anyone but themselves. Everyone for himself or herself. The end of civilization.I believe in FREEDOM, but I also believe in COMMUNITY and COOPERATION. I believe that we can help one another without a profit motive, and we all benefit because we all provide support for one when we need it, and don't get in the way of people pursuing what they want to do as long as they aren't hurting anyone because we LOVE them, and we WANT them to be happy.The Libertarian Party doesn't begin to understand this. No political party CAN understand this, because the nature of POLITICS is to control people by force. Force is not love, it is not caring, it is not concern, it is not community.I say this having once been involved in the LP in my younger and stupider days. I didn't understand. I meant well, and so do they. Steve Kubby has been a member of the LP. He means well. He's a good man. Like all of us he is wrong sometimes. Me too. I don't stop loving someone when I disagree with them.I could say a lot more but that's enough for now.
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Comment #31 posted by FoM on February 07, 2006 at 21:59:13 PT
runderwo
The main reason I can't get into the LP Party is it is male dominated. I have been taught and raised by women. I only had a few male influences in my life and one was my father and one was my priest. They both were very gentle men and I don't have any brothers. I just don't feel comfortable around strong talking men that think they know all the answers. There is more then one way to look at life and in turn politics. I am into enviornmental issues and am anti-any war. I don't want a gun and I sure don't want to fight with a gun for anything. What can they do but kill me. That isn't the worse thing that can happen I don't think. I don't care if people have guns though.
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Comment #30 posted by runderwo on February 07, 2006 at 21:33:12 PT
me too
I vote Libertarian too, except in the rare case where a mainstream-party politician clearly is a better choice. Funny how most of you here seem to do the same. My friends in real life are mostly anti-status-quo, but they vote Democrat instead of "throwing their vote away". Even when they are aware that Democrats are mostly more of the status quo, strangely enough.
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Comment #29 posted by Hope on February 07, 2006 at 18:43:54 PT
Voting and Politics
I've always taken my right to vote very seriously and I've campaigned for a friend who was a Democrat. I'd wear buttons and stuff, but I never ever registered with any party. That gets it all that much more complicated. I keep it simple, although I'd never vote a straight ticket. I vote the man or woman and if I'm not cool with either Dem or Rep candidate ...which isn't very often...I'll vote Libertarian or
anything but Dem or Rep. I hear all that "wasted vote" stuff. It's not a waste to me. It's my little way of thumbing my nose at the ruling parties. It's my protest vote.
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Comment #28 posted by FoM on February 07, 2006 at 18:42:27 PT
Hope
Thank you for explaining. I didn't like LBJ. JFK was a hard person to follow. Mrs. King's funeral service today was excellent. When Senator Kennedy read the Beatitudes the whole church burst into applause. The fundamental principle of good that is what the Beatitudes are to me. They are the sum total of how we should live. We have to get back to the basic issues of concern for our brothers. PS: I told my sister I liked Senator Kennedy and she was shocked. She was going to tell me about the bad things he did and I said before she could say anything I know I know but hasn't he done good for people since then? She said yes he has done more then any Senator for people. I said then how long does he have to pay for the shortcomings of his youth. She said he shouldn't have to pay anymore.
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Comment #27 posted by Hope on February 07, 2006 at 18:31:58 PT
LBJ
was ok. I learned to appreciate him more in later history. I knew people who knew him. They really didn't like him. He was rumored to be involved years ago in some funny elections. He was pretty coarse and embarrassed lots of Texans. That's the only thing I can think of...a moving away from that era of Texas politics...where it sometimes seemed some sort of Democratic Boss Hawg type might be the one who was running things. I really think the Republican thing was caused more by people about my age wanting to change it from the old democratic supremacy sort of. Democrats always seemed to win until our generation started voting. So maybe it was our fault.But then, I'm just guessing...from what I perceived. There are probably websites or books that explain the change. It took several years. We still have lots of Democrats, though...they just don't always win like they used to.
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Comment #26 posted by FoM on February 07, 2006 at 18:28:36 PT
Hope
I might register as a Democrat if I think it might help as we approach elections. I am not in any party and never have been. I will only vote to try to get the republicans out. That's my only interest in politics is to get a change so maybe we can fix some of the damage done.
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Comment #25 posted by Sukoi on February 07, 2006 at 18:25:35 PT
FoM
I don't know why people are considered so "conservaitive" in this area as I've nevere "really" felt that way (I like many others voted the way that my father did). I consider myself Libertarian because I agree with "most" of their ideas but that doesn't mean that I won't support and vote for someone other than a Libertarian; I believe in FREEDOM and I'll support anyone who believes in that one simple American value...
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Comment #24 posted by Hope on February 07, 2006 at 18:21:03 PT
Libertarian
I vote Libertarian every chance I get...unless it's someone I know and like and trust.
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Comment #23 posted by FoM on February 07, 2006 at 18:19:56 PT
Hope
He did a real good thing though. He helped black people with something but I don't remember what.
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Comment #22 posted by FoM on February 07, 2006 at 18:18:30 PT
Sukoi
It really doesn't answer why it flipped to Republicans in the south. I will never be a Libertarian because I don't agree with a lot of what they have as a platform. I am not into any political party. I never have been and never will be. I am more a green type democrat.
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Comment #21 posted by Hope on February 07, 2006 at 18:16:25 PT
"...what was corrupt that you noticed?"
LBJ
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Comment #20 posted by Sukoi on February 07, 2006 at 17:57:59 PT
FoM
I can only speak for myself but I grew up in a Catholic family and when I was of age to vote, I voted Republican (they were different back then). I have been FOR cannabis ever since I was introduced to it and will be until I'm dead. I don't think that religion should have anything WHATSOEVER to do with politics and I went to a Catholic school until the 8th grade. Oh, and I'm a Libertarian now. Does that answer your question?
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Comment #19 posted by FoM on February 07, 2006 at 17:43:16 PT
Hope
Tell me what was corrupt that you noticed? Remember I wasn't into politics and didn't vote. I really don't know how it happened.
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Comment #18 posted by Hope on February 07, 2006 at 17:35:26 PT
You didn't ask me...
but I think as my generation grew up, a lot of us rebelled against what they saw as corruption and shortcomings in the Democratic Party....and now the Republicans are just as bad or worse.
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Comment #17 posted by Hope on February 07, 2006 at 17:33:21 PT
I should have explained in my comment
that I was talking about Huntsville, Texas. That's where I saw the chain gang...or whatever it was. I've never heard of Hatesville...so I guessed that was a made up name for Huntsville. Sorry about that. Bet Observer thinks I'm out of mind for having seen that farm gang in Hatesville. No it wasn't a place called Hatesville....although it was a hard thing to see, for me. It was Huntsville. Where the lights used to dim all over town whenever they electocuted someone.
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Comment #16 posted by FoM on February 07, 2006 at 15:44:22 PT
Toker00 & Sukoi
I need to know something. At one time the south was mostly Democrats. What happened that made them become Republicans. The only thing I can think of is because they are fundamentalists more then the northern states are. I think some people want religion in politics so they can make laws to punish sinners because that is how they see us. Please correct me if I'm wrong.
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Comment #15 posted by Sukoi on February 07, 2006 at 15:28:20 PT
Toker00
Right you are Toker, I was born in Texas and have lived here my whole life.BTW, thanks for the new and true meaning of the ONDCP "One National Disaster Called Prohibition" I love it and ain't it so very, very true???
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Comment #14 posted by Toker00 on February 07, 2006 at 15:08:39 PT
Observer
Not everyone in Texas thinks that way. I'm glad you limited your comments to Hatesville Texas. It's very hard for people in Texas to gain respect from outsiders if we are all seen as you describe Hatesville. I know it was the prison system you were speaking of, I just don't want people to think ALL Texans think that way. The Texans I know, have southern culture, but are not ignorant and racist. The average Texan is rather pleasant and somewhat progressive. No offense taken and I'm sure none entended. Most white cops seem to be prejudiced everywhere, though I'm sure this does not include ALL white cops.Wage peace on war. END CANNABIS PROHIBITION NOW!
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Comment #13 posted by FoM on February 07, 2006 at 10:48:33 PT
Off Topic: Senator Kennedy
He is speaking at Mrs. King's funeral and he is doing a wonderful job.
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Comment #12 posted by OverwhelmSam on February 07, 2006 at 10:32:00 PT
Drug War Is Having An Impact on Availabilty!
They're really making progress in the marijuana war. Yeah, right. If you'll by that, I have some beach front property in Arizona I'll sell you. What a gross waste of law enforcement training and money.All I have to do is drive down the block on the same street I live on to pick up any quanity I want. Of course I never keep more than an ounce at a time. After reading this story, I think I'll pick up a quarter and celebrate the marijuana war's effectiveness.
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Comment #11 posted by Hope on February 07, 2006 at 10:30:02 PT
too much like a scene from Billy Jack
"That rider was the scary part. Just sitting there. Cowboy hat. Sunglasses. Watching."
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Comment #10 posted by Hope on February 07, 2006 at 10:28:36 PT
Observer
I've been there. It's a scary sight. I think it's supposed to be. I've seen the guards on horseback with shotguns or rifles across the saddle horn. I've seen the white clad, long sleeve white shirts and white pants hoeing fields in long rows. The prisoners were in long rows hoeing together through the field like a big machine. When I saw it there was a balance, I guess you could say, of races...but with all the blacks and chicanos in jail today...it's probably not so balanced. I've known quite a few white people that got to be on those "farm teams" under the watchful eye of the overseer. That rider was the scary part. Just sitting there. Cowboy hat. Sunglasses. Watching. And men in long columns or regiments, using hand tools to work like machines. They don't dilly dally about it either. They work fast and hard. They hoe, side by side, the whole time they're out there, I guess, at a speed that I couldn't maintain for five minutes...fresh. I don't know about cotton, but they do grow a lot of their own food, if they're lucky. It make their...or someone's, food be of a little higher quality. It's a sorry, scary sight to see. I think they meant that to be...because it goes on right beside the highway that goes through there.They probably entertain fantasies of them all turning on the guards with their hoes.
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Comment #9 posted by FoM on February 07, 2006 at 10:05:34 PT
observer
I can relate to what you are saying.
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Comment #8 posted by cloud7 on February 07, 2006 at 10:03:34 PT
Reason: The Crimes of Pot Justice (Kubby)
When marijuana arrests might be death sentenceshttp://www.reason.com/links/links020606.shtml
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Comment #7 posted by observer on February 07, 2006 at 09:56:30 PT
How it plays in Hatesville
Any lessing of penalties against the sinner marijuana-takers will be a hard sell in Texas. I asked my crazy Uncle Eustis Jackson Davis Beuraguard III, deep down in Hatesville, Texas, what his take on all this was . . .- - - - - The 'good' folk in Texas (good government people, you know: police, military, teachers, and others with goverment paychecks in Texas), why, they likes things just the way they is!
"In Texas, armed white guards patrol on horseback while the mostly black and Chicano inmates do field work, singing work songs passed down from the days of slavery."
http://www.mapinc.org/drugnews/v01/n565/a01.html
Goodness gracious, great balls o' fire! Ain't that pretty? Them "black and Chicano inmates do field work, singing work songs passed down from the days of slavery" is more than enough to make the good (white) folks' hearts swell with Dixie pride and remember them "good ol' days." the days when Black folks and Mexicans folk knew their place, I mean. And (WWJD?) you know, they better know their place in Texas now in 2006, too, or they'll find they selves back on the farm, a-pickin' cotton, if you get my drift. And, whoo-wee, looky here: its all one-hunnerd percent white-man legal! That's right. It's all written up right smack dab here in Our Con-sti-too-shun!
Amendment XIII Section 1. Neither slavery nor involuntary servitude, except as a punishment for crime whereof the party shall have been duly convicted, shall exist within the United States, or any place subject to their jurisdiction.
Yee haa! Yaa hoo! See, all we have to do, is say that man over there (you see the ones pickin' cotton over thar in that Texas Dept. of Corrections Cotton Field? Yeah, those people), all we good white people have to do is say they done been "convicted" of a "crime"! Heck, that's easier than shootin' armadillos in a petting zoo, with our marijuana laws. We just say they was smokin' dope within 2000 yards of a school zone, then we can put em' away for 10, 20 years: for dealing "drugs" to children. Then they pick cotton for us white folk in Texas. That's the way we white folks have had it here in Texas for, dang, longer than I can remember! We want to "conserve" this, our sacred Texas way of life, where "black and Chicano inmates do field work, singing work songs passed down from the days of slavery": and that's why we is "Conservative" here in Hatesville, Texas. We like it like that. - - - - -
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Comment #6 posted by FoM on February 07, 2006 at 09:31:06 PT
Civil Rights and Good Things
Rest in Peace Mrs. King. Where would we be today with out her and her husband?
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Comment #5 posted by FoM on February 07, 2006 at 09:17:01 PT
Alcohol or Cannabis
Years ago alcohol was snubbed by those who were looking for another and better way. You didn't see alcohol at gatherings of people. If it was there it was so small of a number of people I didn't noticed it.
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Comment #4 posted by Toker00 on February 07, 2006 at 09:12:09 PT
Go Texas!
It's good to know S.A.F.E.R. has a Texas chapter. Let's see what can be done in Texas between S.A.F.E.R. and A.S.A. Wage peace on war. END CANNABIS PROHIBITION NOW!
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Comment #3 posted by Hope on February 07, 2006 at 09:07:19 PT
Go Safer!
This is good news.
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Comment #2 posted by ekim on February 07, 2006 at 08:55:02 PT
4.5 million wild marijuana plants, at what COST
US MO: Marijuana Sting Takes Out CropsURL: http://www.mapinc.org/drugnews/v06.n156.a08.html
Newshawk: allan
Votes: 0
Pubdate: Sat, 04 Feb 2006
Source: Branson Daily News (MO)
Copyright: 2006 The Branson Daily News
Contact: (417) 334-4299
Website: http://www.bransondailynews.com/
Details: http://www.mapinc.org/media/4031
Author: Noelle Caylor, BDN Staff WriterMARIJUANA STING TAKES OUT CROPS Operation Cash Crop 2005 is snuffing out the marijuana growers in Missouri, and state officials say campaigns like this are well worth the time. Recent statistics show that officers have destroyed more than 10,000 cultivated and sinsemilla plants from indoor and outdoor operations and more than 4.5 million wild marijuana plants, according to the Missouri State Highway Patrol. In the process, 104 pounds of marijuana and 147 firearms were confiscated, the patrol said. There were also 450 arrests made. Operation Cash Crop is a joint mission between the patrol, Missouri National Guard, Missouri Sheriff's offices, city and county police departments, Missouri Conservation Commission, U.S. Forest Services and the Drug Enforcement Agency, the patrol states. Stone and Taney counties had fine outcomes, Sgt. Jason Clark of the patrol said. "There were 265 cultivated plants and 10 arrests that came out of Stone County," Clark said, "and seven cultivated plants, 220 wild plants and four arrests from Taney County."
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Comment #1 posted by ekim on February 07, 2006 at 08:16:29 PT
book a Leap Speaker for your Event
The Wooldridge Washington Weekly
http://lastonespeaks.blogspot.com/
This just in from our intrepid reform lobbyist inside the Beltway.
SURPRISE OF THE WEEK: On Thursday I flew into Dayton, OH for a week of politikin. Local dynamo Rob Ryan (Republicans for Compassionate Access) had me attend a Democratic Forum in Cincinnati. The featured speaker was TV personality Mr. Jerry Springer. After chatting with a large number of state reps, senators and a local Dem candidate for Congress I sat down to hear Mr. Springer. WOW. This former mayor of Cincinnati was one of the more articulate, insightful speakers I have ever heard. Later we met briefly and he stated he would have me on his radio show. I had a slow week of catching up on paper work, until flying into Dayton. Thursday and Friday were filled with radio & TV interviews, meeting politicians and command police officers. I did everything but kiss a baby. Next week promises to be more of the same. Thanks Rob for all your hard work. As one who has booked his own Rotaries, I deeply appreciate those who work behind the scenes to put me in the public spotlight or in front of a VIP. And yes, after all the media attention of the Ride Across America, I may have had a little withdrawal problem from not being on TV the last 3 months. LOLFeb 7 06 Leadership Tomorrow, "Authors Series" 05:30 PM Norm Stamper Seattle Washington USA
Former Seattle Chief of Police and author Norm Stamper reads from his book "Breaking Rank" and discusses drug prohibition failures in the United States when he participates in the "Leadership Tomorrow, Authors Series". Location: Greater Seattle Chamber of Commerce, 1301 Fifth Avenue, Seattle, WA Feb 8 06 Van Patrick Show KCMO 710AM Radio 07:40 AM Jack Cole Kansas City Missouri USA
Executive Director Jack Cole is a phone in guest to the Van Patrick Show on KCMO Radio, 710AM, Kansas City, MO. Jack and Van will be discussing the controversial topic of drug legalization and how the world would be better by ending drug prohibition. Visit http://www.710kcmo.com/ to listen online. http://www.leap.cc/events
http://www.lastonespeaks.blogspot.com/
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