cannabisnews.com: MN Lawmakers Seek To Close Paraphernalia Loophole
MN Lawmakers Seek To Close Paraphernalia Loophole
Posted by CN Staff on January 17, 2006 at 06:57:53 PT
By Charley Shaw, Staff Writer
Source: St. Paul Legal Ledger
Minnesota -- Two Republican state senators want to tighten Minnesota's laws against drug paraphernalia sales. At a Capitol news conference last Thursday, state Sens. Amy Koch, R-Buffalo, and Michael Jungbauer, R-East Bethel, said they want to identify in statute the kinds of pipes and other items they say are only used for illegal drugs. Koch said the proposal closes a "loophole" in the law.
Currently, law enforcement can only arrest people who possess drug paraphernalia that contain drug residue or who sell drug paraphernalia to a minor. "It makes absolutely no sense to outlaw harmful drugs and yet allow the open sale of items that are clearly used for conducting illegal activity," Koch said. "Allowing this type of paraphernalia to be sold sends the wrong message." Jungbauer said other states such as Wisconsin have similar law enforcement tools for cracking down on drug paraphernalia sales. He said the legislation won't affect pipes used for legal products such as tobacco. "It's for drugs and drug use," Jungbauer said of the items that are outlawed in the measure. During the event, law enforcement officials displayed several types of drug paraphernalia on a table, including water bongs and marijuana pipes that look like cigarettes. "Having this legislation will enable us to act consistently with our efforts to curb and curtail illegal drug use. It makes no sense to outlaw marijuana and not the pipes that it's smoked in," said Buffalo Police Chief Mitchell Weinzetl. Koch and Jungbauer are collaborating with the Minnesota Police Chief's Association, the Minnesota Sheriff's Association and the Wright County Attorney's Office on the proposed legislation. The bill will delete existing language in statute relating to selling drug paraphernalia that Koch said is ambiguous. It will also provide a specific list of items that can't be sold. Koch said the final list of items isn't yet available. The Minnesota Legislature convenes March 1. Source: St. Paul Legal Ledger (MN)Author: Charley Shaw, Staff WriterPublished: January 17, 2006 Copyright: 2006 St. Paul Legal LedgerContact: pboulay legal-ledger.comWebsite: http://www.legal-ledger.com/CannabisNews Paraphernalia Archiveshttp://cannabisnews.com/news/list/paraphernalia.shtml
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Comment #104 posted by museman on January 19, 2006 at 12:53:43 PT:
whig: shouting down the mountain
All the more reason to find a shining example to raise on the side of that mountain so we don't go hoarse and feel like we fail. Bro, we are that shining example, and we shine by more than words. That which we exemplify in our lives becomes a light by which others may see. Of course you cannot force the stubborn to look or to see, but their friends and loved ones will look and see, and sooner or later (generations from now maybe) even they will have to admit what they see on that mountain. It's just a few torches now, but a century ago it was only candles. Before that it was just a reflection of potential in a newborns eyes, and a bare handful of True Believers scattered across the face of the planet. At least we are on the mountain.
http://wholeearthfamily.org
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Comment #103 posted by whig on January 19, 2006 at 06:06:30 PT
museman
It is a very different thing to be born and raised Jewish. Never condemn ignorance, nor the blind man for not seeing even what is right before his eyes. We are brainwashed, I have said it and I repeat it, we are taught to think along certain paths, to follow certain marked roads and not go outside the lines that have been carefully drawn, even when there is no obstruction but the lines themselves.But for the rabbis and the priests even of the Visible Church, who lead men and women in error and do not themselves have sight, who glorify God in order to glorify themselves, who place themselves on a raised platform over you and me, they are the most to be opposed. For even if they are themselves blind, they are vain too, and pretend to see what they do not so that others will follow them into the thicket of darkness.And here we stand on a mountainside, shouting down to the others, we are not above you in any way except that you do not climb up here to join us. But they do not hear our call, for they have been told not to listen to people like us, we are stupid, confused, crazy potheads, after all. In the kingdom of the blind, what do they call the one-eyed man who describes a rainbow?
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Comment #102 posted by potpal on January 19, 2006 at 05:43:37 PT
wow 100 comments
Never saw that before.Okay, 102 now!
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Comment #101 posted by FoM on January 18, 2006 at 23:08:21 PT
museman
Thank you. This war is terrible. I really find the whole issue just like Vietnam again. My husband also was a volunteer. He knew he would get drafted so he enlisted. I met him shortly after he got out of the Army and we spent a lot of time talking about Vietnam. Country Joe said so much when he sang I-Feel-Like-I’m-Fixin’-to-Die Rag.http://www.countryjoe.com/fixin.ram
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Comment #100 posted by museman on January 18, 2006 at 22:47:47 PT:
FoM
In answer to your question. I was never in country. I started off my military training (after basic) in the Polaris program. I was only in for a little over a year, but I got the whole picture.I started as a 'cold war soldier' with a top-secret clearance for Nuclear Subs, but escaped that fate into the fleet as a boatswains mate (backbone of the navy they say) and finally in the Naval Hospital. While there I had the fortune of meeting/knowing a few Mekong River 'survivors,' what was left of them.That's right I was a volunteer, I had been a young republican, helped elect Richard Nixon, and man did I have a rude awakening. Between the Russians in the Mediterranean, and those brothers missing body parts, 1970 and 1971 was a very messed up, but illuminating time for me. I wasn't in Nam, I didn't get shot at by viet cong, just Americans. They call me a 'Viet Nam era veteran.' The specter of war doesn't haunt my dreams, it haunts my world. But I was there with the spirit of my fellow brothers in arms, and I do know, I have that unwanted knowledge. The shock and horror of war never goes away, and though I might have missed that part, I didn't.We lost so much in that war I cry almost every day. And now it's the same damn spirit again. True Nobility sacrificed on the alter of false propriety and social vanities. Blood for oil.
The Honor of the soldiers who fight and die for these false leaders is never in question in my mind.Our government on the other hand is a murderous beast that lies and cheats it's own as much as it's 'enemies.' It doesn't seem to have changed much.
http://wholeearthfamily.org
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Comment #99 posted by museman on January 18, 2006 at 22:04:01 PT:
whig 96
thank you for the explanation. I do not desire to disparage any persons, and I hear your defence of what you yourself know. I do find it hard to believe that a lawyer (if shown the real truth about it all, and then still remained a lawyer-and I'll agree that is the loophole) could be equated any differently than the rich man in the parable of the camel and the eye of the needle. Anyone can turn their eye towards 'God' at any moment in their life, so it matters not from that moment on what they did before. It is difficult to speak of the error of ways without persons identifying. Yet if those ways still remain error that fact should not be ignored, and those who may find themselves on the 'wrong side of the dream' need only change their mind with conviction. Those who passed before they could've known that they were servants of error can only be forgiven.
My grandfather was a 'good man' too - just a lowly body and fender man who secretly wanted to play hillbilly music, but his racial attitude was in error.I don't condone his error, but I do forgive him.I do believe we are on the same mountain, so let us keep climbing.
http://wholeearthfamily.org
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Comment #98 posted by whig on January 18, 2006 at 20:59:09 PT
runderwo #97
Let's not put the cart before the horse, though, we don't really know how UDV will come down for awhile yet. Your argument is more to the establishment clause, I think, but there are a lot of different approaches that can be taken simultaneously. No legalistic argument matters unless the culture changes, and no political system can stand against general public opposition.
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Comment #97 posted by runderwo on January 18, 2006 at 20:37:36 PT
whig
I know, what I'm saying is given that peyote already has a spiritual use exception, and given the pending DMT ruling, what's to stop cannabis from going down the same road? But what I don't like is that spiritual use has to by definition involve a church of any kind. As opposed to being a private, self-determinate act.
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Comment #96 posted by whig on January 18, 2006 at 18:23:24 PT
museman
"(In my opinion)Law has absolutely nothing to do with life, common sense, or the nature of things. It's a low-level academic game practiced by the keepers of the status quo, and without the armed thugs forcing it on the world it's nothing but the fearful mouthings of spoiled children who never grew up."We don't disagree. We may have our own ways of expressing things, like the discussion before on our respective approach to music, and as you said then, "It isn't important (except to the person) how you reach the mountaintop, by wing or careful steps, as long as you reach it." We have slightly different climbing methods, that's all.Because I want to be respected, I try to extend respect to everyone of good will, even when I think they are wrong, and this includes people in the legal profession. My father is a lawyer but he is a good man, even though there is a lot we disagree on. I grew up understanding how society brainwashes us each in different ways, and I've had to overcome some of my own. I don't view ignorance as evil.With that having been said, I know there are also people out there who understand the truth and who knowingly choose to selfishly serve themselves even at the expense of harming others, and I do not excuse this. These are the people behind the curtains who profit by warfare, by imprisoning harmless people, by selling false images to keep people from questioning the way things are.We who are knowing have a responsibility to choose based upon our knowledge, we can illuminate the world with love or we can darken it with fear, these are the conscious yin and yang.
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Comment #95 posted by FoM on January 18, 2006 at 18:07:39 PT
museman
I don't mean to interrupt but what years where you in Nam if you don't mind saying. My husband did two tours from 69 to 71. He was in Transportation and hauled food, fuel and ammo all over Vietnam and was stationed in Cam Rahn Bay.
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Comment #94 posted by museman on January 18, 2006 at 17:49:14 PT:
whig 89
"Mostly you're talking about the prosecutors here, not the public defenders."
Perhaps you are right, however I don't see how that changes the actual dynamics any."I think we have a bit of a different outlook on this, God knows my mind and my desires and does not ask for my worship, nor would I feel right in doing so,..." only if by that you mean that I imply anything other than what was written or stated.
I'll put the power of faith up against the definition of law any day, every day. The law is for fear mongers and their lackies, call it by any name/category/flavor you choose.
Power that does not have to be shoved down unwilling throats by gun-toting centurians, does not come from "rule of law" and that power, the power of faith and belief (I didn't say what in) will, and I stand on the truth of it, prevail.I have said before that I believe for every eye to see "God" there is a way to see. If we would allow each and every one of us to see God the way that each to our own eyes we perceive, what a beginning to global understanding!And just for the record should it really matter; I have already tested these truths in 2 different courts of "law" in 2 different states. Both for "posession and cultivation of cannabis."As long as the false language of interpretive law is in the closed controlling hand of the lawyer creed, the thought and action of "common sense" is superceded by the farce known as "The Rule Of Law."
Not "The Golden Rule (measuring rod)," or the "Law (Way) of Love," but the RULE of LAW. Rule meaning domination and control through use of armed military trained enforcement of law.Shoot me but I am an American. I saw a few sides of the issue during VietNam, and the facts of the matter are solidly reinforced everyday by the actions words and antics of a government and social/economic hierarchy gone insane.(In my opinion)Law has absolutely nothing to do with life, common sense, or the nature of things. It's a low-level academic game practiced by the keepers of the status quo, and without the armed thugs forcing it on the world it's nothing but the fearful mouthings of spoiled children who never grew up.Nothing personal you understand.
http://wholeearthfamily.org
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Comment #93 posted by FoM on January 18, 2006 at 15:47:26 PT
runderwo
I understand where you are coming from.
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Comment #92 posted by whig on January 18, 2006 at 15:28:22 PT
runderwo
Peyote is already expressly allowed the Native American Church.
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Comment #91 posted by runderwo on January 18, 2006 at 15:02:45 PT
spiritual use
It will be interesting to see what sort of precedent is laid down by the spiritual use exceptions for DMT and peyote. Too bad "spiritual" is synonymous with Baby Jesus to so many people, and tends to exclude any other forms of spiritual behavior that don't involve going to church and listening to a preacher. It's also too bad that even if we get a spiritual use exception for cannabis, you still must join a church to legally use it. Meanwhile, alcohol, inhalants and pharms continue to be the state-approved party intoxicants and continue to wreck lives. It's so backwards.
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Comment #90 posted by whig on January 18, 2006 at 13:35:22 PT
UDV
I was wrong, it's actually precedent in the 10th circuit, making an appeal more speculative on this ground.
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Comment #89 posted by whig on January 18, 2006 at 13:16:59 PT
museman
"And these are the ones that eventually become our circuit judges, like the county judge Runruff got stuck with. The yokel DAs too"Mostly you're talking about the prosecutors here, not the public defenders. As for the prosecution being at the county level under Oregon state law, that's basically where I don't see a legal argument to appeal on, the CSA is not applicable because this wasn't a federal prosecution. I think it might be possible to make a religious use argument under RFRA, though: see the UDV case currently in the supreme court."Never never discount the power of prayer. It may well be the only option for ao many, those of us who can should conscienciously pray for the rest of us."I think we have a bit of a different outlook on this, God knows my mind and my desires and does not ask for my worship, nor would I feel right in doing so, because God is part of myself and I am a part of God, like you and everyone else. I would rather not speak silently to myself, but say what I think with my family. Divine intervention happens every day, it is so common it is hardly ever recognized as anything special, we do most respect by observing and appreciating this."Perhaps we have another option; What is stopping the folks in this forum from sending a barage of letters to Runruff judge? How could it hurt, if they are intelligent expressions of concern fopr justice?"I don't think it will help Runruff because the judgment is already made and sentence has already been passed. If there were an appeal filed I would think we could help establish a basis for a RFRA claim as I think many of us would sincerely express our faith that cannabis is sacramental.I think even if an appeal were filed tomorrow, getting a stay of judgment would be a longshot, but if Runruff wants to try this, he has the benefit of being in the 9th circuit where UDV is currently precedential.
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Comment #88 posted by museman on January 18, 2006 at 12:44:03 PT:
whig 64
"Also a lot of them are lawyers who graduated in the bottom of their classes and couldn't get a job with a well-paying firm, so you get what you get."And these are the ones that eventually become our circuit judges, like the county judge Runruff got stuck with. The yokel DAs tooThe high-paid-high powered defence attorneys go into politics or corporate law. It's an exclusive club that should have been banned from the first. Now it is so entrenched we practicly neeed an act of God to extricate them. And I do believe it is coming, so watch out all you smiling fat cats, we will get the last laugh, and I for one will laugh loud enough for you to hear!Never never discount the power of prayer. It may well be the only option for ao many, those of us who can should conscienciously pray for the rest of us. Perhaps we have another option; What is stopping the folks in this forum from sending a barage of letters to Runruff judge? How could it hurt, if they are intelligent expressions of concern fopr justice?
http://generation.no-ip.org
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Comment #87 posted by whig on January 18, 2006 at 10:47:22 PT
Firth of Fifth
The path is clear
Though no eyes can see
The course laid down long before.
And so with gods and men
The sheep remain inside their pen,
Though many times they've seen the way to leave.
He rides majestic
Past homes of men
Who care not or gaze with joy,
To see reflected there
The trees, the sky, the lily fair,
The scene of death is lying just below.The mountain cuts off the town from view,
Like a cancer growth is removed by skill.
Let it be revealed.
A waterfall, his madrigal.
An inland sea, his symphony.Undinal songs
Urge the sailors on
Till lured by the siren's cry.Now as the river dissolves in sea,
So Neptune has claimed another soul.
And so with gods and men
The sheep remain inside their pen,
Until the Shepherd leads his flock away.The sands of time were eroded by
The river of constant change.
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Comment #86 posted by whig on January 18, 2006 at 10:43:56 PT
A Trick of the Tail
Bored of the life on the city of gold
He’d left and let nobody know.
Gone were the towers he had known from a child,
Alone with the dream of a life
He travelled the wide open road,
The blinkered arcade,
In search of another to share in his life.
Nowhere.
Everyone looked so strange to him.They’ve got no horns and they’ve got no tail
They don’t even know of our existence.
Am I wrong to believe in a city of gold
That lies in the deep distance, he criedAnd wept as they led him away to a cage
Beast that can talk, read the sign.
The creatures they pushed and they prodded his frame
And questioned his story again.
But soon they grew bored of their prey
Beast that can talk?
More like a freak or publicity stunt.
Oh
No.They’ve got no horns and they’ve got no tail
They don’t even know of our existence.
Am I wrong to believe in a city of gold
That lies in the deep distance, he criedAnd broke down the door of the cage and marched on out.
He grabbed a creature by the scruff of his neck, pointing out:
There, beyond the bounds of you weak imagination
Lie the noble towers of my city, bright and gold.
Let me take you there, show you a living story
Let me show you others such as me
Why did I ever leave?They’ve got no horns and they’ve got no tail
They don’t even know of our existence
Am I wrong to believe in a city of gold
That lies in the deep distance, he cried
And wept.And so we set out with the best and his horns
And his crazy description of home.
After many days journey we came to a peak
Where the beast gazed abroad and cried out.
We followed his gaze and we thought that maybe we saw
A spire of gold - no, a trick of the eye that’s all,
But the beast was gone and a voice was heard:They’ve got no horns and they’ve got no tail
They don’t even know of our existence
Am I wrong to believe in a city of gold
That lies in the deep distanceHello friend, welcome home.
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Comment #85 posted by runruff on January 18, 2006 at 10:28:37 PT:
My name is freedom.
As a lizzard will give you his tail
rather than lose his freedom
my heart screams like a sirens wail
as friends leave just when you need them
as each injusice burns into my soul
I campaign like a southern preacher
while the caisons of tyranny are on the roll
they turn their backs on their TEACHER
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Comment #84 posted by FoM on January 18, 2006 at 10:26:09 PT
Correction
I said a global world but what I meant is the countries work together and no one will buck the USA so running seems futile.
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Comment #83 posted by FoM on January 18, 2006 at 10:19:44 PT
Hope
There is no place to hide. We are a global world now. Running will always catch up with a person. I hope that a miracle happens for runruff but if it doesn't he will stand tall and make the most of it.
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Comment #82 posted by Hope on January 18, 2006 at 10:09:47 PT
Whig
I would never want Runruff to run. I don't think he ever would. I know enough about him to know that he will be ok wherever he is and whatever happens. He seems to be that sort of person. I thought you might have some legal knowledge that could break their hold on him. It's ok. I'm a little disappointed, but I'm still hoping God does something remarkable and merciful and good.
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Comment #81 posted by whig on January 18, 2006 at 09:59:18 PT
FoM
Are we on the same wavelength or what?
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Comment #80 posted by FoM on January 18, 2006 at 09:53:00 PT
Hope
I agree the comments have been remarkable. When I think of runruff I think of the people from the Woodstock Era that decided to get as far away as possible from the way things were becoming back then. I think if I had been free to do what I wanted at that time in my life I would have run as far west as I could have gone and tried to find somewhere to hide away in the mountains and live in a log cabin and be left alone. I really was raised with lots of people around and I never liked it. I was born to be quiet I suppose. I stopped before making it all the way out west and it is fine and quiet here too so I'm happy.
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Comment #79 posted by whig on January 18, 2006 at 09:52:36 PT
Hope #76, Runruff
I really wish I thought I could protect Runruff from the state. It is a terrible bargain they have forced on him, if he flees they will presumably take his home and he will never be able to return, plus there is no guarantee of his safety even if he manages to get away. Canada is not safe for refugees, but perhaps Bolivia would be, given that the incoming president has himself been a coca farmer and Runruff has been a cannabis farmer, but nothing guarantees that the US administration wouldn't invade that country. It is at least a chance of freedom, but I cannot suggest that he take this chance because the risks are very high and I would hate for something worse to happen on account of him trying to get away.
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Comment #78 posted by Hope on January 18, 2006 at 09:44:57 PT
Runruff's persecution hurts us all.
That story is so painful to read.Runruff, I know you'll make the best of it, no matter what happens, but it's not right to persecute and imprison a man like you for a plant. It's not right. It's not right.
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Comment #77 posted by Hope on January 18, 2006 at 09:39:44 PT
FoM
It's been hectic.Comments have been remarkable though. I've tried to keep up although I haven't been keyboarding as much as I usually do.
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Comment #76 posted by Hope on January 18, 2006 at 09:34:54 PT
Unkat27, Whig
"They" make a law against something you are doing, they can call you a "lawbreaker and criminal" and disengage you, personally, from their idea of humanity...and they are done with you...or maybe they can make some money off you...they can make a profit off the situation they created. Might as well not all be a waste.An added benefit of that situation is that once they have lowered you enough on the humanity scale...they can feel separated enough from you to feel more elite themselves.Whig, it would be so wonderful if you could be instrumental in answering my prayer that Runruff does not have to have two years of his life stolen to imprisonment.
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Comment #75 posted by unkat27 on January 18, 2006 at 08:48:45 PT
Beware, more Vultures
Koch and Jungbauer are obvious vultures. Their idea is to outlaw such paraphernalia so that they can crack down on anyone accused of selling it, shut their businesses down and steal all their goods and money. This sort of thing probably made Ashcroft a cool million when he first put it into effect in several other states. Beware, these vultures don't give a damn about the American youth that they are pretending to protect, it is just another scheme to make easy money for their vacations and retirements.Koch and Jungbauer will be added to my list.
Vampires and Vultures: The Drug War Profiteers
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Comment #74 posted by CorvallisEric on January 18, 2006 at 05:10:10 PT
Fixed links for #73
Tunnel:
http://www.dot.state.co.us/eisenhower/description.aspCam:
http://www.dickgilbert.com/eisenhowercdotcam.htmLinks need to have a space before and after.
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Comment #73 posted by The GCW on January 18, 2006 at 04:25:30 PT
Republicans, republicans, republicans.
Yes, some Democrats too.But it seems the republicans are more often implicated.Cannabis can be smoked out of Bush's hand; prohibit Him.Would it have been different if Hitler targeted republicans?THCUSnow, snow and more snow;The bird bath is buried.I'll take the ice;I'll take the sicle.THCUHere in the HIGH Country, in the last month or more, We have not gone more than 2 days with out reporting snow. This is after 9 drought years...This site, from Loveland Ski area (see way below), which is over The Eisenhower Memorial Tunnel, (which is located approximately sixty miles west of Denver, Colorado on Interstate 70; the HIGHEST vehicular tunnel in the worldhttp://www.dot.state.co.us/eisenhower/description.asp), shows, snow accumulations which are not big but consistant...(see the cams... http://www.dickgilbert.com/eisenhowercdotcam.htm)People cool down bong product using this snow; shall We prohibit it?http://skiloveland.com/snowrep/snowreporthistory.asp
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Comment #72 posted by runruff on January 18, 2006 at 00:25:35 PT:
Thanx Whig
for engaging in this exchange with me. You sound like a fine person to me and I feel we are on the same side. As for me, don't believe everything you read about me. You can be proud that you know me.
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Comment #71 posted by whig on January 18, 2006 at 00:20:47 PT
runruff #70
I'm not a lawyer, but I've had some experience with the legal system. If I'd gone to law school and gotten a degree and admitted to the bar, then I'd have to toe the line or be subject to disciplinary disbarment even for disregarding manmade "laws" that violate the conscience and which I find so reprehensible. Lawyers are officers of the court and they cannot freely engage in any kind of activity or even speech without risking their professional capacity, and most of them don't even realize what kind of enslavement they've put themselves to.
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Comment #70 posted by runruff on January 18, 2006 at 00:09:01 PT:
Hey Whig
are you a lawyer? I always thought you sounded like a pretty sharp guy.
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Comment #69 posted by runruff on January 18, 2006 at 00:05:39 PT:
Feloneous farming.
Yes thats right. They had no evedince that I had been selling anything but remarked that I sure must smoke an awful lot of pot. I was convicted [ pleaded guilty to] cultivation only. The P.A. said instead of 40 years and 2 million dollars fine I would keep my house and do 24 months.
So far I still due to report to Devon Mass. 2-6-06.
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Comment #68 posted by whig on January 17, 2006 at 23:58:03 PT
More thoughts
If they have convicted on "manufacturing" only, this really is a charge of gardening. That is what you are "guilty" of, cultivating plants they don't like.
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Comment #67 posted by runruff on January 17, 2006 at 23:53:41 PT:
Whig
That is eerie. yes that is me. Though not totaly acurate. for one thing i am not a career criminal. That is just ludicris. Besides Growing herb has never been a crime in my book and that is the only law I've ever broken
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Comment #66 posted by whig on January 17, 2006 at 23:49:14 PT
runruff
From everything that I have seen, you are a good man, and for them to call you a "career criminal" when they are the ones who are bringing violence against you for gardening, Gardening! It is obscene.
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Comment #65 posted by whig on January 17, 2006 at 23:44:24 PT
runruff
This is you?
Gypsy's report on ILGP
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Comment #64 posted by whig on January 17, 2006 at 23:32:11 PT
runruff
Court appointed defense-attorneys are given huge caseloads to deal with and rarely have the time to spend on an individual, they are overworked and underpaid, even those who want to do good have to pick and choose when to stand and fight, and they won't take on a constitutional issue that they don't think they are likely to win. Also a lot of them are lawyers who graduated in the bottom of their classes and couldn't get a job with a well-paying firm, so you get what you get. Government-paid prosecutors make a much better living and they have a lot more resources behind them. Don't expect justice from this system, but I'm willing to make suggestions if it's possible. What's the current state of pleadings in your case?
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Comment #63 posted by runruff on January 17, 2006 at 23:10:48 PT:
sukoi
My lawyer is a court appointed fast food justice attorney.
He takes drug cases and rubber stamps us through, NEXT! I believe he is a placator and a hand holder. His job is to make it legal for the feds to slam it to you. I felt nothing but dispairity during the whole process. I am a good person. I've given away everything I've ever had to those whom I felt were needy. Still my Lord has provided for me. I live on faith. My faith has not left me during these dark hours.
As for the CSA and the over extention of the commerce clause. Of course this is unconstitutional. Anyone blind in one eye and can't see out of the other can see that.
How long o Lord, How long?
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Comment #62 posted by runderwo on January 17, 2006 at 23:02:25 PT
Sukoi
I'm not sure if I see where the CSA can be challenged on its face as an abuse of interstate commerce regulation. D.E.A. was arguably operating outside constitutional bounds when it pulls crap like it did in Raich, but now those bounds have been judicially defined so that such behavior is included. It is certainly incongruous that alcohol prohibition required an amendment to ban manufacture and trafficking, yet drug prohibition only requires an act; and furthermore the CSA bans possession and use in addition to manufacture and trafficking, arguably a liberty issue since possession and use have nothing to do with commerce of any sort.But with alcohol prohibition, the temperance movement was in full swing, and so many states jumped in on it. States that ratified the amendment were also bound by it, saving them from having to implement their own laws and enforcement. With the CSA, states needed local task forces to take care of drug problems that the federal authorities would not address, since at the time it was outside their jurisdiction. Now, nothing is outside the feds' jurisdiction. So SCOTUS has effectively ruled us into a situation through the CSA that is even worse than what a constitutional amendment gave us with alcohol prohibition, since users are now targets as well, and our taxes are paying for nationwide federal jurisdiction as well as funding redundant local task forces that supplement the long reach of Uncle Sam.It's enough to make your head spin. But that is what you get with a utilitarian, self-loathing society that eschews materialism on Sunday between the hours of 8:00-12:00 and then rejoins the arms race of wealth for the rest of the week. I honestly can't believe the amount of hate there is out there. Hate for everyone else while you scramble to grab your slice of the pie, hate for the pie itself because of its allure, and hate for your own accursed taste for the pie that led you to hurt your brother for the love of it. We hate each other and hate ourselves even while we continue to do the things we hate ourselves for. We need a wake-up. One form of wake-up is a bloody civil war. I know that there are other kinds and hope that we find them first. And it is possible that the CSA is in the way of this awakening in some way, based on my experience. Sorry for the ramble.
http://www.mapinc.org/ccnews/v06/n072/a03.html
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Comment #61 posted by whig on January 17, 2006 at 22:13:31 PT
sukoi and runruff
Well, I don't know the very specific facts of Runruff's case, and the state of his pleadings at this stage, but I will say that I am always willing to lend a hand or an ear if I can suggest anything that might be helpful.
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Comment #60 posted by FoM on January 17, 2006 at 20:54:29 PT
Hope
Hi! I just wanted to say it's good to see you. You're missed when you aren't around but I understand we all get busy. I thought it was a really cool answer too.
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Comment #59 posted by Hope on January 17, 2006 at 20:26:43 PT
Museman Comment 32
That's amazing, Museman. I saw FoM's request of you earlier today and was curious what you would do with it. I'm really impressed. Thanks...from me, too. The verse you wrote is just lovely.
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Comment #58 posted by b4daylight on January 17, 2006 at 18:26:31 PT
Keep in mind
This is a state that decrimmilized canabis. Go MNTo me this a good analogy to use why the gov. don't want to win the drug war. Just make it a cash cow to fund everything else.If we let doctors fight the drug war, and let the politicians fund them. We might just curb demand through education and honesty. Which IMO is better than buying bullets and jail cells.
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Comment #57 posted by FoM on January 17, 2006 at 17:14:00 PT
afterburner
I'm glad you see what I meant. I don't want anyone to think that I think any other party glows with joy because they don't. The republicans seem to radiate hatred more then other party people and I'm sure there are some good republicans out there. I also believe that politics wrecks a person. I don't want to be wrecked so I avoid as much as I possibly can. Good Luck with your upcoming elections and I hope you are doing fine.
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Comment #56 posted by OverwhelmSam on January 17, 2006 at 17:10:29 PT
About SCOTUS
I think the next marijuana case that reaches SCOTUS will win, and here's why: Even among the tortured logic used to shoot down Raich, Stevens fired a warning shot over Congresses' bough saying, "Congress should change the law!" And yet, Congress has not acted. The next case that reaches SCOTUS will be interesting. Go ahead US Attorney General, challenge another ruling by a Federal Appeals Court.
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Comment #55 posted by afterburner on January 17, 2006 at 17:04:56 PT
RE Comment #35
Check the facial expressions of the President-elect and his entourage taking the reins of power during the 2001 G. W. Bush Presidential Inauguration. Joyless expressions warned me that the country was in for lots of trouble.
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Comment #54 posted by siege on January 17, 2006 at 17:03:28 PT
Ineligible For Student Aid Due To A Drug Convictio
Ineligible For Student Aid Due To A Drug Conviction?Friends:The ACLU Drug Law Reform Project will soon file a lawsuit challenging the federal law that denies student aid to people with a drug conviction. If you are--or will be next year--ineligible for student aid due to a drug conviction (or know someone who is) will you please contact the ACLU immediately? Their contact info is as follows:
hea aclu.org; 1-866-4-HEA-FIX.This is a lawsuit that needs to be filed, and they look forward to hearing from you soon.Thank you for your help on this important issue.Sincerely,Allen St. Pierre
Executive Director
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Comment #53 posted by siege on January 17, 2006 at 16:47:43 PT
Socialist-Communist
Red and blue, Black and White and Native and Latino and Asian, young and old alike – every American citizen from every walk of life must realize that freedom comes first. It trumps every, single political hot-potato issue, every single “security” development, and every individual political, social, and religious opinion. If you don’t have freedom, opinion and individual belief is illegal. And aristocrats make your freedom illegal.You will be told, in no uncertain terms, what your opinions will be. This is exactly what is happening to every single American child in the American public school system today. They are being drilled with new and mandated opinions – as per the mandates of the United Nations, its Outcome-Based Education, its School-To-Work Socialist-corporate mission, and its Socialist-Communist teachers unions. The new and enslaved citizen worker is upon us, and they are our children – the ones who will never know opinion or freedom.
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Comment #52 posted by OverwhelmSam on January 17, 2006 at 16:42:57 PT
Situation Report
The Social prejudice that has been instilled by the US government is slowly wearing away among Society. Even sober minded adults laugh at the ONDCP propaganda commercials, because they are ridiculous. They try to lay the guilt trip on a little thick, but it doesn't stick. I have to say that the extreme cases we see in Society like the all-day stoners, and the Cheech and Chong types, cause a negative perception among the people, but most people understand that these are the extreme cases, and not the norm for most marijuana consumers. Cannabis consumers simply prefer a doobie over a martini after work.Most recreational consumers don't go to work or school high, they don't get high everyday all-day and they don't operate a motor vehicle or heavy machinery while they're under the influence. In the cases where the consumer is using marijuana excessively, sure they need counseling. Unfortunately, the consumer or his/her family will not seek treatment due to Canabis' illegal status. Use of any substance where it impairs your relationships or productivity is abusive and should be avoided, or at least moderated.Those that imagine that legalization is not coming down the road are just fooling themselves. The American government has perpetrated a fraud about marijuana on the American Citizen's of this country, and Americans are starting to realize it. Oh, you still here the same old lines, here's one, "It's Dangerous!" Really? More dangerous than what? Prove it! Where are the sick and dying marijuana consumers. With twenty five million marijuana consumers in America alone, why aren't the hospitals beds filled with sick and dying marijuana users? Where are the morgues filled with dead marijuana consumers? The only thing dangerous about marijuana is the possibility of being arrested, and the fact that you have to deal with a blackmarket. If the product were produced to a specific strength, and regulated for adult use, it would be less dangerous than alcohol.If you ask anyone about the danger of alcohol on the other hand, the addictions, violence, highway fatalaties, overdoses and deaths are noted everywhere. So of course people know they're being lied to. The GAO even basically said in a report that it was okay for the US Office of National Drug Control Policy to lie to Americans because, It's their job! Unbelieveable!But that's okay, because their unethical push to stay marijuana legalization, is actually working against the US government. City by city, state by state, laws against marijuana consumers are falling, like toy soldiers. The dangerous criminal black market that is primarily perpetuated by marijuana, will all but dry up completely when marijuana is legalized for adults, and it will be a safer America.
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Comment #51 posted by Sukoi on January 17, 2006 at 16:40:42 PT
whig
I completely agree and I can't for the life of me understand why prohibition itself hasn't been challenged in the courts as being unconstitutional.Runruff, have you discussed this angle with your lawyer?
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Comment #50 posted by whig on January 17, 2006 at 16:36:23 PT
sukoi
I've been saying for a long time now that the CSA needs to be facially challenged, but Raich and Monson's attorneys tried instead to carve out a very narrow exception for an as-applied challenge.Raich is still live in the lower courts, though I believe the current approach they are attempting is a medical necessity defense. They are too timid, these attorneys.
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Comment #49 posted by Sukoi on January 17, 2006 at 16:33:01 PT
OOPS
"not whether that jurisdiction under the Commerce Clause was constitutional or not."That should have read: not whether the Controlled Substances Act of the Commerce Clause was constitutional or not.
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Comment #48 posted by Sukoi on January 17, 2006 at 16:29:11 PT
runderwo
But that case was strictly about the government's jurisdiction with regard to the Commerce Clause, not whether that jurisdiction under the Commerce Clause was constitutional or not. That's what I'm asking; has the constitutionality of the Commerce Clause, specifically the Controlled Substances Act, been challenged at the SCOTUS level as to it's constitutional validity?
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Comment #47 posted by runderwo on January 17, 2006 at 16:15:32 PT
Sukoi
The Raich decision of last year upheld the CSA. Strangely enough, the majority opinion appealed to the necessity of combating drugs and largely ignored the constitutional issue. Somehow, non-interstate non-commerce is now interstate commerce, because such activity might affect prices in another state (in a black market, no less!). This reasoning is necessary because otherwise, they say, the War on Drugs cannot be constitutionally justified. Whatever. AFAICS, they justified nothing and jumped to the conclusion that the status quo wanted.I believe that decision will be revisited and overturned in the future, because it is a BAD decision, and its reasoning going to be used to justify all sorts of things that social conservatives are going to hate, so they'll demand it sooner or later.
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Comment #46 posted by Sukoi on January 17, 2006 at 16:02:39 PT
Commerce Clause???
Does anyone know if cannabis prohibition itself has been challenged at the SCOTUS level? It seems to me that the arguement should be that the prohibition of any substance, especially a natural one that is so benign, is unconstitutional and should be struck down instead of fighting for MMJ and/or the re-legalization of cannabis. The Commerce Clause allows congress to "regulate" and prohibition is not regulation, that would require a constitutional amendment. Correct me if I'm wrong here folks.Duzt (comment #5) thanks, those are some AWESOME pictures. I now have new wallpaper for my desk top.
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Comment #45 posted by runderwo on January 17, 2006 at 16:01:21 PT
He Should Have Stopped There
"It makes no sense to outlaw marijuana..."Seems like a bright fellow. Now why'd he have to go and put his foot in his mouth afterwards.
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Comment #44 posted by FoM on January 17, 2006 at 15:30:54 PT
Potpal
Seriously though I believe that certain foods can cause depression. I don't know if it is the same for everyone but I feel best when I stick to a closer to vegetarian diet. That's hard but when I do it makes me feel better.
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Comment #43 posted by FoM on January 17, 2006 at 15:26:07 PT
Potpal
Now I know what's wrong with me! LOL!
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Comment #42 posted by potpal on January 17, 2006 at 15:21:15 PT
ot / fyi
Will they make food illegal now that it is clearly linked to mental illness?http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/4610998.stm;-)
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Comment #41 posted by FoM on January 17, 2006 at 15:12:21 PT
museman
Is it something in water out your way that makes it all connect like it does? I'm only kidding but the song has a good message.
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Comment #40 posted by FoM on January 17, 2006 at 14:54:40 PT
runruff
I bookmarked the link and went thru it but quickly because I'm making dinner but I will read this thoroughly. Everything it says is what I believe. After years of trying to figure why everything happens the way it does I learned to look at life very much the way in the link you provided.Thanks museman!
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Comment #39 posted by museman on January 17, 2006 at 14:45:18 PT:
too much fun
OK guys,I'm having too much fun. I've said it before, I'll say it again; it is GOOD to find group of folks who take the truth seriously, and can see that that is not a limited subject by any stretch of the imagination.Got stuff to do so I leave this link;http://www.terryhubbard.com/FAM/the_weed_song_jesh.mp3I find it so appropriate. Written by one of my sons performed by 4 of them. Very new. Very cool. Very good. enjoy
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Comment #38 posted by museman on January 17, 2006 at 14:33:38 PT:
reefer madness
Does the phrase "Garbage in, garbage out" mean anything to you?1930'3 film done with 1920's B&W equipment, directed by some obscure drunk found in the barrio who thought he had a flair for filmoire, and faced with the dificult task of creating believable fiction out of shabby material.Pretty hilarious otherwise
http://wholeearthfamily.org
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Comment #37 posted by runruff on January 17, 2006 at 14:27:18 PT:
Words of thanks and forgiveness.
These are words my wife and me like to read outloud together. For us it is like taking a spiritual bath together. These spiritual baths have changed us energetically
since we started reading them. I want to share them. I'm not trying to promote a religion or beliefs or anything like that. These are things we figure out for ourselves.
But I find these words to be cleansing and edifying.
http://www.howardwills.org/prayers.html
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Comment #36 posted by Graehstone on January 17, 2006 at 13:52:44 PT:
Twinkies
I think they should outlaw twinkies and ding-dongs next. I mean toking leads to munchies and munchies lead to twinkies and twinkies lead to obesity. That way we can get a handle on all the overweight problems folks have.
That having been said, I have a date with Little Debbie ...;)
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Comment #35 posted by FoM on January 17, 2006 at 13:36:42 PT
Is It Only Me
We watched Reefer Madness again recently. I thought the guy that was pointing to the people saying this could be your child or your child etc. looks like Republicans today to me. I can tell a republican almost all the time by their facial expressions. They don't have a natural glow to their faces but look ashen to me. Is it my tv or me or am I crazy? If I'm just crazy be kind! LOL!
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Comment #34 posted by museman on January 17, 2006 at 13:30:56 PT:
Wash Post Hippie
I guess that means that if you were right about it back then, you are obviously more wrong now?George Orwell would feel his efforts were in vain.Double-think is the perfect deflection.well I know one 'hippy' that would love to step up and stick out my foot in front of that monkey you mentioned.
http://wholeearthfamily.org
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Comment #33 posted by FoM on January 17, 2006 at 13:25:11 PT
museman
Yes yes yes!
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Comment #32 posted by museman on January 17, 2006 at 13:18:45 PT:
FoM
Words are angels unaware,but they give wings to a hearts intent,become the ships to bear the weight of our meaningacross the void of the indefinable distance between us all.
http://wholeearthfamily.org
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Comment #31 posted by FoM on January 17, 2006 at 13:16:17 PT
museman
I think you fit here just fine and you are very welcome.
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Comment #30 posted by FoM on January 17, 2006 at 13:15:09 PT
Washington Post: The Hippie Comment Again
Murtha and the Mudslingers***By E. J. Dionne Jr.Tuesday, January 17, 2006; Page A17I underestimated the viciousness of the right wing.Last November, Rep. John Murtha, a Democrat and a decorated Marine combat veteran, came out for a rapid American withdrawal from Iraq. At the time, I wrote: "It will be difficult for Bush's acolytes to cast Murtha, who has regularly stood up for the military policies of Republican presidents during his 31 years in Congress, as some kind of extreme partisan or hippie protester."
No, the conservative hit squad didn't accuse Murtha of being a hippie. But a crowd that regularly defends President Bush for serving in the Texas Air National Guard instead of going to Vietnam has continued its war on actual Vietnam veterans. An outfit called the Cybercast News Service last week questioned the circumstances surrounding the awarding of two Purple Hearts to Murtha because of wounds he suffered in the Vietnam War.John Kerry, as well as John McCain -- who faced scurrilous attacks on his war record when he was running against Bush in the 2000 South Carolina primary -- could have warned Murtha: If you're a Vietnam veteran, don't you dare get in the way of George W. Bush.Complete Article: http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/01/16/AR2006011600913.html
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Comment #29 posted by museman on January 17, 2006 at 13:13:54 PT:
FoM
Thank you. I seem to be in good company here in this forum.
http://wholeearthfamily.org
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Comment #28 posted by FoM on January 17, 2006 at 13:02:34 PT
Dan B
Thanks again. We are a cool group of people here and I really appreciate everyone. It keeps me thinking all the time. Trying to sort it all out is complicated but very thought provoking. museman, I keep thinking of something and maybe you can do something with it.The words are Angels Unaware.
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Comment #27 posted by Dan B on January 17, 2006 at 12:56:59 PT
Absolutely, FoM!
I couldn't agree more! On that note, many thanks to you and the rest of the folks who make this site what it is, day in and day out.Dan B
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Comment #26 posted by FoM on January 17, 2006 at 12:53:38 PT
Dan B
Thank you. I believe the people who post here are hard working caring folks who love their country. We love our families and we love our associates. Love is part of our culture which Cannabis helps to direct in many people's lives. Free thinkers are scary to the powers that be.
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Comment #25 posted by museman on January 17, 2006 at 12:50:44 PT:
shot or show
works either way.
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Comment #24 posted by Dan B on January 17, 2006 at 12:45:36 PT
***Correction***
That should have read "shot across the bow," not "show across the bow." My bad.Dan B
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Comment #23 posted by Dan B on January 17, 2006 at 12:42:10 PT
Good point, FoM
Good point about the Commerce clause, FoM. I guess the Supreme Court couldn't find a similar law to apply equally unjustly in the physician-assisted suicide issue. So, they had to let this one go. Note, by the way, that if Alito were there instead of O'Connor, the vote would have been 5-4, not 6-3. On other issues of personal liberty and human rights, correct-thinking people in the United States won't be so lucky (yes, friends from outside the U.S., there are still correct-thinking people here).It still seems to me that laws against cannabis boil down to a culture war more than anything else. Yes, pharm money does play a huge part, and that aspect should not be overlooked. I guess I was just trying to make sure that we also don't lose sight of the cultural argument that continually needs to be made. A pep talk, of sorts. The medical marijuana debate is one way that we are showing the world that cannabis is not used solely for the purpose of getting high. The Showtime show WEEDS is another show across the prohibitionist bow. Dr. Grinspoon has done an excellent job of fighting the good fight with regard to the culture war, too. We need to continue that fight, and C-News is one very important front that is doing just that.I suspect that many, if not most, of the people who post here are hard-working, productive, upstanding members of their communities. And, many of those people likely partake in cannabis in one way or another for one reason or another. I have known many people who fit that description, and for the most part those who stand against cannabis seem to have no clue that such people exist. The drug warriors seem to wear cultural blinders that keep them from seeing the truth: cannabis isn't hurting anyone. Cannabis laws are. Dan B
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Comment #22 posted by FoM on January 17, 2006 at 12:40:38 PT
PARKER: 'LEGALISE CANNABIS'
Golden Globe winner MARY LOUISE PARKER has urged the US Government to legalise marijuana, after playing a cannabis-selling mother in her hit comedy WEEDS.The 41-year-old actress, who won her second Golden Globe for her portrayal of drug-dealing NANCY BOTWIN last night (16JAN06), has been surprised by the public and critical response to the show, and admits she expected her character's controversial job to offend a lot of US TV viewers.She says, "I'm really in favour of legalising marijuana. I don't think it's that controversial."I thought people would be more offended by this than they are. I'm surprised they weren't."Parker adds she was stunned she beat DESPERATE HOUSEWIVES stars MARCIA CROSS, TERI HATCHER, FELICITY HUFFMAN and EVA LONGORIA to win Best Performance By An Actress In A Television Series - Musical Or Comedy last night.She adds, "I thought Felicity would win. I think we're all desperate housewives. My character is just a little bit more desperate than theirs."
http://www.contactmusic.com/new/xmlfeed.nsf/mndwebpages/parker%20legalise%20cannabis
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Comment #21 posted by FoM on January 17, 2006 at 11:43:20 PT
museman
Your words are very powerful.
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Comment #20 posted by museman on January 17, 2006 at 11:36:08 PT:
How Long Oh Lord How Long
do we have to suffer for the insecurities of our presidents and kings?
How long must we endure the ignorance of so many in the clear and obvious evidence of the truth?
How long must our patience be derided by the ignorant themselves who smile confidently at the carefully consructed face in their mirror.Oh it is sometimes a burden that causes the warrior inside (trained by the US military during the last war) to wan to rise up and fulfil that oath I made so long ago;
"to protect and defend the citizens, and the constitution of the united states from enemies both foreign, and domestic." because my friends the greatest threat the United States has ever known sits confidently entrenched behind the status quo, from the executivce branch to your local sheriff.Alas the truth has been so misdirected, discredited, humorized, ridiculed, turned completely around ass-backwards, that should that long buried warrior (again; trained by the US) actually come forth - even non-violently, what would historicly be seen as 'patriotism' would now be labeled as 'terrorism.'So truth itself becomes the only weapon a warrior can use effectively in this 'conflict.'
http://wholeearthfamily.org
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Comment #19 posted by FoM on January 17, 2006 at 11:29:54 PT
Dan B
I am not much into law issues so I hope I was right by thinking it was the Commerce Clause. Doctor's will be able to help a person end their life without getting in trouble. When I think of the Raich decision I think of how cannabis could wind up being transported over state lines if they had voted for it. If I am wrong please let me know.
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Comment #18 posted by FoM on January 17, 2006 at 11:17:45 PT
Spencer’s Special: Pot Paraphernalia?
By Matt Dunning, Hanover MarinerTuesday, January 17, 2006 How-to advice with a hookah burned two Hanover Mall workers caught in an undercover narcotics sting.
Police say a teen working at Spencer’s Gifts sold a cop the water pipe along with instructions on how to best put it to use with pot.
Both the employee and his manager were charged the next day, and 28 hookahs were seized. Complete Article: http://news.bostonherald.com/localRegional/view.bg?articleid=121633
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Comment #17 posted by museman on January 17, 2006 at 11:17:39 PT:
holy smokin'
I am not absolutely sure, but I have heard from several folks over the years that soapstone has asbestos in it. Soft serpentine (false jade) as well.
Pipestone or glass absolutely safe. (for herb not for high-heat stupidity like crack or other stuff people put in their pipes)
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Comment #16 posted by runruff on January 17, 2006 at 11:04:25 PT:
Pipes, smips. Holy smokes Batman!
My wife and I liked to bake the buds in an oven at 250 degrees for 15 or 20 minutes. This makes the herbs active.
Then we crush it up and put it in gel caps for easy doseing. The DEA said they had never seen that done before. They took a big bag full we had prepared.
It makes a nice dose that last longer than smoking it. It acts the same as eating a cannabis laced brownie only without the sugar or calories. As for parphernalia. It is all over the internet. I've made my own pipes and hookas.
Soapstone is easy to carve and very pretty. But hey, in a pinch an empty toilet paper roll wrapped in foil, an apple,
punch a hole n a glass or plastic bottle and make a hooka.
This law only goes to show how zealots can manifest their mania. Have fun out there guys. Smoke 'em if ya' got 'em.
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Comment #15 posted by jared3602 on January 17, 2006 at 10:18:10 PT
????
"He said the legislation won't affect pipes used for legal products such as tobacco."Is it just me or can all pipes be used for tobacco. I know here in NY the head shops get around this buy posting signs (and they put up a lot of them) saying For Tobacco use Only and if you say any drug terms they will kick you out of the store.
[ Post Comment ]
Comment #14 posted by FoM on January 17, 2006 at 10:16:34 PT
Dan B
It's good to see you. I think why MMJ got shot down was because it was about the Commerce Clause. That might be very basic but if I try to think of any other reason I can't figure out why they said no.The thing about Dirty Hippies is I got to thinking this. How many Hippies or those that thought like Hippies were right leaning or Republicans early on in the early days? I couldn't think of anyone. So hating Hippies has a lot to do with politics.
[ Post Comment ]
Comment #13 posted by Dan B on January 17, 2006 at 10:09:53 PT
MMJ and Ore. Assisted Suicide Law Upheld
Thanks, FoM, for listing the fact that the Supreme Court upheld the Oregon law allowing a provision for doctor-assisted suicide in cases of severe critical illnesses. Here is a quotation from an article that I read today on the matter, followed by a comment:"The ruling was a reprimand to former Attorney General John Ashcroft, who in 2001 said that doctor-assisted suicide is not a 'legitimate medical purpose' and that Oregon physicians would be punished for helping people die under the law."My comment: I wonder why this (roughly the same) bunch on the Supreme Court could not understand that the same logic applies to California's Prop. 215 and other laws like it in eleven other states--laws that allow doctors to recommend and allow medical patients to obtain and use medical marijuana. Clearly, the Attorney General is stepping far outside his area of expertise when he claims to know better than doctors what herb or drug is best for those who have serious illnesses. Arguably, the reason why many politicians favor a federal ban on medical marijuana is that it poses a threat to pharmaceutical companies' bottom lines. However, doctor-assisted suicide poses a similar (if somewhat lesser) threat to big pharm; that is, allowing doctors to assist with suicide can cause pharmaceutical companies to lose money that otherwise would be spent on pumping somewhat large doses of pharm-controlled opiates into medical patients in order to partially alleviate their pain and suffering. In other words, it seems to me that there is something other than a straightforward monetary argument at work in the contradictory decisions on medical marijuana and physician-assisted suicide. I think those who cite an ongoing cultural (and, by extension, racial) war against cannabis and against those whom the feds assume use it for whatever reason likely plays, in fact, an even larger role than pharm dollars. Those who want to change the cannabis laws, then, do well to frame the debate as cultural first, monetary second. Many here have, over the years, made impressive logical arguments to that effect, and I applaud all of them. I would like to encourage those who recognize the cultural (read: bigoted) element of the drug war as a major contributor to its longevity to continue to point out that cannabis is used by a wide range of individuals, some professional, some not, and that any effort by those who favor such laws to define cannabis users as just one thing ("damn dirty hippies," for example) is an "in" for us to challenge common stereotypes and, as a result, turn the tide of this culture war in our favor.Dan B
[ Post Comment ]
Comment #12 posted by FoM on January 17, 2006 at 09:52:57 PT
MSNBC and Weeds
They just showed MLP won for WEEDS! Cool!
[ Post Comment ]
Comment #11 posted by FoM on January 17, 2006 at 09:42:21 PT
Quote About Marijuana By Mary Louise Parker
"I'm really in favor of legalizing marijuana and medical marijuana; I don't think the series is that controversial but I thought people would be more offended by it than they actually are." _ "Weeds" pot mom and the dark horse winner of the best actress in a comedy winner Mary Louise Parker.http://www.detnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060117/UPDATE/601170413/1034/ENT02
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Comment #10 posted by goneposthole on January 17, 2006 at 09:30:51 PT
Pipestone, Minnesota
Guess they'll be changin' the name of that town. Pipestone from the quarry near Pipestone was traded as far away as Florida. Jeesh, can it get any more moronic? They're out there, those politicians; that's for sure.
[ Post Comment ]
Comment #9 posted by whig on January 17, 2006 at 09:02:27 PT
Raich at issue per Thomas
I think Thomas's dissent in this case is fascinating:http://scotus.ap.org/scotus/04-623p.zd1.pdfWhat is most remarkable is that the most conservative member of the court is the most supportive of MMJ.
[ Post Comment ]
Comment #8 posted by FoM on January 17, 2006 at 08:22:41 PT
Here Comes The Future I Hope
A Man of Many Hats ***Jim Tarbell is the new vice mayor Excerpt: In his early adult years - after stints in the fishing and medical fields - he ran a neighborhood youth center, where he once brought the Grateful Dead. In the months between the booking and the show date, the Dead gained a huge following, Tarbell said. The center - a converted vacant church that seated a couple of hundred people - was overwhelmed."It was one of the most notorious concerts of all time in this city," he said. "We couldn't handle the crowd. It was nuts."Tarbell's early career as a rock concert promoter echoes today in the form of an affinity for the vice mayor from many baby boomers.Ray Jackson, who now owns property near Hyde Park's popular square, approached Tarbell outside the Echo. He recalled a wet outdoor concert Tarbell promoted at the Cincinnati Zoo featuring Grand Funk Railroad."I call it Mudfest," Jackson said. "I was 17. We were sliding down the hill."Tarbell smiled and nodded."The sound system came directly from Woodstock," he told Jackson. "It was covered in mud."Those who knew the Tarbell of the '60s and '70s say they would have never predicted a career in politics for the longest-serving member of City Council."He had a long, flaming-red beard and red hair and was just out there," said Jeneene Brengelman, a former Charter Committee director and part of an informal group of artistic friends who Tarbell calls the "Court Street Irregulars." The group gathered for potluck dinners in the 1970s at a warehouse on Court Street downtown."We were not anything like politically active," Brengelman said. "We were both just hippies."She remembers the Ludlow Garage, which Tarbell opened in 1969. A former service station in Clifton, the Garage hosted acts that eventually became superstars, such as the Allman Brothers, Neil Young, Santana, the Kinks, B.B. King and Bo Diddley.When running the Garage, Tarbell lived in a large house on Dana Avenue in Avondale with about a dozen other people."It was a commune," Tarbell said. "A lot of bands stayed there."In those days, Tarbell admits, he used marijuana and experimented with LSD."I had two experiences with LSD," he said. "One was really pleasant. One was a disaster. It was with the Grateful Dead in New York. It was, 'Here, try this.' "Today, Tarbell says he has mixed feelings about drug use. He believes substance use created a certain creative energy, but he also said it "did enormous damage as well.""It got so random," he said. "It got out of control and did a lot of damage."Although he doesn't necessarily promote the legalization of marijuana, he said the issue deserves serious discussion. He opposes street corner dealing, pointing out that liquor is legal but can't be dealt just anywhere. But fighting the widespread use of marijuana is a losing battle, he said."The cost to society is enormous, and it doesn't seem to be getting us anywhere," he said. "It's treated more as a crime, and I think it needs to be treated more as a health issue."While some drug-related crimes deserve jail time, Tarbell said, he thinks education, preventive measures and rehabilitation would produce better results.Complete Article: http://news.cincypost.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060117/NEWS01/601170357
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Comment #7 posted by dongenero on January 17, 2006 at 07:40:29 PT
it's futile
You're right potpal.And if I hear "blah blah.......sends the wrong message" one more time my head is going to pop.Let's replace it with "blah blah.....personal responsibility".
Sheesh! You'd think I was a republican! Good God, stop the insanity!
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Comment #6 posted by FoM on January 17, 2006 at 07:38:26 PT
Hookah
What do they think they will do about Hookahs? It's traditional for some cultures to use a Hookah.
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Comment #5 posted by duzt on January 17, 2006 at 07:35:23 PT
???????
I'm a glass blower by profession and this type of thing makes me think I live in China. I sell $500 plus glass pieces that take me 2-3 days to make and that is art, pure and simple. I'm sure people won't be able to figure out how to smoke now that they are doing this. This country is ruled by the ignorant. Of course, I haven't paid taxes in 15 years so I can always feel good about that. Certainly people couldn't smoke anything but tobacco from a wooden tobacco pipe. Idiots.
My gallery for all those who hate glass and plants......
duzt.overgrow.com
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Comment #4 posted by JustGetnBy on January 17, 2006 at 07:34:45 PT
The Supreme Court
never ceases to amaze me. Now gimmie a second to see if my tiny intellect can grasp this concept. A physician may legally assist me to end my life, but the Ferderal Govt. may put me in prison if I use cannabis to ease my
pain before I end my life. OK I've got it, WOW, I think we have all stepped through the mirror.
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Comment #3 posted by potpal on January 17, 2006 at 07:28:17 PT
apples
and tin foil, pepsi cans, corn cob pipes, plumbing supplies, they just be looking bizzy messing up something else...they're so big and bad and powerful
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Comment #2 posted by FoM on January 17, 2006 at 07:17:29 PT
AP: Supreme Court Upholds Ore. Suicide Law
January 17, 2006Washington -- The Supreme Court on Tuesday upheld Oregon's one-of-a-kind physician-assisted suicide law, rejecting a Bush administration attempt to punish doctors who help terminally ill patients die.Justices, on a 6-3 vote, said the 1997 Oregon law used to end the lives of more than 200 seriously ill people trumped federal authority to regulate doctors.Copyright: 2006 Associated Presshttp://www.bradenton.com/mld/bradenton/news/politics/13645354.htm
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Comment #1 posted by FoM on January 17, 2006 at 07:00:17 PT
Why?
Don't politicians look at the polls that don't agree with fighting us like they do? Aren't they suppose to represent the people?
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