cannabisnews.com: City Takes No Action To Blunt Legal Pot Plan










  City Takes No Action To Blunt Legal Pot Plan

Posted by CN Staff on October 26, 2005 at 18:20:38 PT
By Michael P. McConnell, Staff Writer 
Source: Daily Tribune 

Ferndale, Michigan -- City Council has refused to pass a measure opposing a ballot proposal to legalize marijuana for medical use. Councilman Mike Lennon — who is against Proposal D — asked his fellow elected officials to join him in a resolution against the ballot proposal but failed to gain any support. "The bottom line is that marijuana is illegal at this time," Lennon said, "and I don't know if Ferndale is the place to start (to legalize it). Maybe the state is."
Councilman Craig Covey, who supports city Proposal D, said Lennon should have brought the issue up during the regular agenda of Monday's City Council meeting rather than introduce it at the end when officials make comments."Friends can disagree," Covey said.Mayor Robert Porter has said a city ordinance to allow the use of marijuana under a physician's direction still doesn't address the illegality of the drug — and of obtaining it.However, Porter, Covey and Councilman T. Scott Galloway have said they believe the marijuana proposal will probably pass. Galloway and Porter have not taken a stand on the issue.A similar proposal was approved in Detroit by 60 percent of voters last year.Donal O'Leary III, 19, is a Ferndale resident and University of Michigan student who submitted the petitions to get the marijuana proposal on Ferndale's ballot for the Nov. 8 election. O'Leary is working with Tim Beck who organized the successful ballot in Detroit.O'Leary attended Monday's council meeting with two residents who spoke in favor of the proposal.Peggy Thorp told city officials that her adult son used marijuana with good results when he had to undergo chemotherapy three years ago for leukemia. The marijuana stimulated his appetite and took some of the edge off side effects of his chemo treatment, she added."It was a definite help for him," Thorp said.Proposal D is drawing opposition from Ferndale Police Chief Michael Kitchen and Oakland County Prosecutor's Office.Kitchen and Deputy Prosecutor James Halushka both note that marijuana is considered a dangerous drug by the American Medical Association and other health-care groups.Pro-marijuana endorsements come from former U.S. Surgeon General Joycelyn Elders and television talk show host Montel Williams, who has pushed for legalization since he began to use marijuana as an adjunct to his treatment for multiple sclerosis.Medical groups that support legalizing marijuana for medical use include the New England Journal of Medicine and the American Nurses Association.The resolution that Lennon tried to introduce Monday was modeled on a resolution the Michigan House of Representatives passed, 96-7, last year against the medical use of marijuana without federal drug approval.Lennon also said marijuana is a gateway drug and that teens who smoke it are 85 times more likely to use cocaine.While 10 states have laws allowing the medical use of marijuana, federal law prohibits the sale and use of marijuana.The U.S. Supreme Court ruled in June that federal law enforcement officers are not precluded from arresting marijuana users and sellers in states where the medical use of marijuana is allowed.Source: Daily Tribune, The (MI)Author: Michael P. McConnell, Daily Tribune Staff WriterPublished: October 26, 2005Copyright: 2005 The Daily TribuneContact: editor dailytribune.comWebsite: http://www.dailytribune.com/Related Articles & Web Site:Michigan NORMLhttp://www.minorml.org/Marijuana Backers Speak Uphttp://cannabisnews.com/news/thread21111.shtmlMarijuana Debate Heats Up in Ferndalehttp://cannabisnews.com/news/thread21049.shtml

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Comment #51 posted by FoM on October 27, 2005 at 21:02:35 PT
phatcyclist 
I have been thinking about so many different things today I forgot to say welcome to CNews.
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Comment #50 posted by FoM on October 27, 2005 at 20:53:33 PT

Toker00
I'm glad you are ok. I don't like when one of us feels pushed aside. It's not a good feeling and not nice either. Fairness is the hardest thing. The larger we become as a cannabis community including all organizations and individuals the more difficult it will be to not hurt others by omission or mistake. Maybe that's what will be CNews purpose in the future. CNews now is somewhere where we can gain strength, blow off steam and laugh too. Onward and upward we go!
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Comment #49 posted by Toker00 on October 27, 2005 at 20:43:01 PT

Forever and ever !
That's right, FoM. Ain't it great? I'm not blaming Norml as a whole for what they have done and are doing in the name of medical cannabis, but it would be nice not to be included in the term criminal. Norml knows what has to be done. If cannabis is resceduled, the rest of cannabis prohibition will be easy to defeat. If the rest of the plant is also beneficial, then Hemp can't be held back because of "marijuana." There's a great day a-comin'! I blew off some steam about ASA. If they are for cannabis in any way, then they can't be against us. But I will still check out their rallies.Wage peace on war. END CANNABIS PROHIBITION NOW!
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Comment #48 posted by FoM on October 27, 2005 at 20:30:03 PT

Toker00
I have been thinking about this on and off all day. I spent sometime in NORML's web site tonight and it really is getting good. They don't miss much that will help us. I also think that we have activists from every corner of the USA involved in reforming the laws concerning Cannabis. I do like NORML the most because they seem to be going in a direction that is needed now. I also support rescheduling Cannabis. I believe Cannabis is good medicine. I know that many states have very harsh laws just for simple possession. Many years ago NORML helped change the laws in my state. It isn't a bad state. A small local town thought it was being too lenient and they are talking about making over 8 ounces a lower level felony. I don't know if they can do it but that is a contrast compared to many states. We are winning. We are winning every direction we turn. One of these turns will change it all forever.
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Comment #47 posted by phatcyclist on October 27, 2005 at 17:02:48 PT:

Michigan today.... which state will be next?
This Michigan bill provides another opportunity for the legalization movement to damage the influence of the prohibitionists. The effect of the Supreme Court’s ruling can be diminished over time if the efforts within the individual states become more concentrated and focused in promising areas like Ferndale. Our country’s preoccupation with Reefer Madness will come to a close as the general population begins to see the lies of the Bush Administration unveiled. Pay close attention to the fall of those in the inner circle of the President. As the indictments of Rove, Libby and Delay and their ilk progress I believe we will observe the toppling of the Drug War.   

An Intelligent Discourse On Marijuana
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Comment #46 posted by Toker00 on October 27, 2005 at 15:03:10 PT

Exactly, siege
"It appear that we will have to be at every rally that comes up from this point ON, For recreational and medical marijuana,, and be every SECLECTIVE about who we send our Donations too..."I intend to be at every ASA rally around, close by. It sickens me that this group feels they need to exclude legalizers from their associates. I don't care what they do in private, but if they are having a public rally for legalizing cannabis for medicine reasonably close by, I'll be there to remind them of the other reasons to legalize. And to fly my flag! I can't believe it if Norml is really selling us out, too. Someone from Norml needs to come to this site and explain to us how we should still be seen as criminals, if cannabis is medicalized. I'm not talking about the cartels that kill for power and money. I'm talking about those of us who have stuck our asses on the line publicly, to support the fight to end cannabis prohibition for everyone, under the evidently false support from Norml, who we see, now, may view us as murderers and gang land criminals for wanting more than just medicine from cannabis! I'm going now to follow the money, and see who supports ASA. And to find a real group to support that wants to end cannabis prohibition for ALL of us. I'm gonna stay on ASA's ASS.Wage peace on war. END CANNABIS PROHIBITION NOW! 
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Comment #45 posted by FoM on October 27, 2005 at 13:59:55 PT

Hope
Thank you too. We learn from each other. That's what I love about CNews' people. We get along even when we don't see eye to eye on every issue. That is the only way to make this world work.
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Comment #44 posted by Hope on October 27, 2005 at 13:56:52 PT

FoM
I said, "...we will keep going as long as we have life, until the wall is torn down and the mountain of disgrace disguised as the WOD is thrown into the sea."And as long as you are here, we will keep coming here for strength, knowledge, and encouragement.Thank you so much for this place. It helps.You help keep the "fire" within us all burning hot.

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Comment #43 posted by FoM on October 27, 2005 at 13:34:52 PT

Way Off Topic For Me
I got to thinking about how will we remember President Carter in the future and George Bush the one we have now.I don't need an answer but what we do now is how we will be remembered in the future. We have quite a responsibility in life. That's all.
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Comment #42 posted by FoM on October 27, 2005 at 12:56:21 PT

Hope
I believe if things don't change this whole world will just self destruct or close to it. We aren't anything important except when we are in sync with the world around us. We are only a part of the picture. We don't have a right to have a runaway ego. That's the way people seem to me now. 
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Comment #41 posted by Hope on October 27, 2005 at 12:47:25 PT

"Almost makes me cry."
Until recently...I guess about the time we "lost" the Supreme Court farce, I've cried a lot, and there is still a lot to cry about. Things have gotten better in the last few months, it seems. Sometimes I even smile when I read the news. That has been an amazing and different experience than we have usually had when we are searching out information about what is going on.All these years of checking first thing every day here and at MAP, I had learned to brace myself. I was going to be mad. I was going to be horrified. I was going to be hurt. I was likely to be in tears. It was worse than getting a tooth pulled....EVERY MORNING. It's hard to start everyday enraged or so sorrowful that you can't stop the tears. And you have to make yourself do it...on purpose. It's usually so painful that it feels self destructive. Like make my coffee...stick my arm in the alligator's mouth. It has to be done though, I feel...and obviously you all do too. Kind of like cleaning out a sewer.But things are a little better in spite of the continued ranting of the prohibitionists. Our "vindication" has been showing up in offshore media for some years now. Finally someone is allowing the media here to tell US citizens a little something of what is going on. Our goal...of peace, and hope, and freedom might be closer than we think.Don't cry, dear FoM. It's going to get better. And you know what will happen if it doesn't soon. We will get better in spite of the obstacles and keep spreading our "message" (ugh...I can't believe I said that...that word cause ire to rise in my soul.) We'll keep spreading our truth and righteous indignation and waking people up to what is happening to all of us in the name of the WOD and cannabis...and we will keep going as long as we have life, until the wall is torn down and the mountain of disgrace disguised as the WOD is thrown into the sea.
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Comment #40 posted by Dankhank on October 27, 2005 at 12:39:03 PT

yessum
Wouldn't an Age of Peace, Love, and Understanding be nice? A long Age of that, please.yessum let's get started ...
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Comment #39 posted by Dankhank on October 27, 2005 at 12:31:32 PT

found this
http://www.suntimes.com/output/people/cnt-news-closet23.htmlhe was driving drunkNo mercy, but everything else seems to be drug-use related, or parole related.
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Comment #38 posted by FoM on October 27, 2005 at 12:28:49 PT

Dankhank
He got so high on cocaine that he went into the wrong house and climbed in a girls bed. 
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Comment #37 posted by FoM on October 27, 2005 at 12:27:26 PT

A New Age
Peace, love and understanding are the most precious of words. Yes we need to act like the way Jesus would have taught us to act. The separation of God from the Hippie culture of yesteryear occured later on down the road. Substances were used to try to get closer to God. The last song on Festival Express was Better Take Jesus' Hand.http://www3.clearlight.com/~acsa/introjs.htm?/~acsa/songfile/JORDAN.HTMhttp://usa.festivalexpress.com/index2.htmlhttp://www.newridersofthepurplesage.com/

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Comment #36 posted by Dankhank on October 27, 2005 at 12:12:49 PT

forgot
what Downey got in trouble for ...whad he do?
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Comment #35 posted by Hope on October 27, 2005 at 12:10:14 PT

We need a new "Age".
There was a lot of good and a lot of bad in the risky and fast moving Industrial Age. One of the bad things about it now...is that our government seems to think of us as nothing but workers in the economy game they are totally enthralled in. Maybe it's time for a new age. It can't be called an age of "Godliness"...because we know what that can lead to. If you've got it, let's stand on our "Godliness" and let it raise us up, but don't use some sort of "Godliness" as a way to intimidate or kill others who don't agree with your vision of "Godliness".How about the Age of Freedom...or Liberty...or Respect? We've had the Industrial Age, and the Computer Age...maybe it's time for a Human Age where people can explore and find all the best there is to being a human.Wouldn't an Age of Peace, Love, and Understanding be nice? A long Age of that, please.
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Comment #34 posted by FoM on October 27, 2005 at 12:04:35 PT

We Can Never Go Back
Hope and Dankhank I appreciate your comments. This drug legalization issue is very personal for me. It almost makes me cry everytime I have to think about it. Dankhank I think you believe like me about decriminalzation as what it would be not legalization. You said: I favor applying law for most lawbreakers, but not for their use of a drug, unless it's evident the use contributed to the crime. No use of diminished capacity as a defense. No censure for responsible use. Is that legalization? Could maybe be Decriminalaztion? People that get caught using a hard drug get caught because they did something totally stupid. I can recall what got Robert Downey Jr. in trouble. 
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Comment #33 posted by dankhank on October 27, 2005 at 11:56:28 PT

Legalization
is a hot-button word, hearing it evokes as many disparate thoughts as there are minds to hear it.I favor applying law for most lawbreakers, but not for their use of a drug, unless it's evident the use contributed to the crime. No use of diminished capacity as a defense. No censure for responsible use. Is that legalization? Could maybe be Decriminalaztion? Banning Ephedra over a few deaths is ludricrous compared to allowing tobacco, and even the stats for deaths due to aspirin use.Welcome to Crazyworld ...
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Comment #32 posted by Hope on October 27, 2005 at 11:55:30 PT

The delusion
"... we, law enforcement, are trying to return America to a better time and to get America to it's earlier values."That's so sad...but it's a true delusion. It's insane. We can't go back, even if it was a "better" time. Which I don't believe it was. Certainly not for everyone. We can't go back...but we could learn something from the mistakes of earlier periods of history and move forward without wasting years on doing the same stupid mistakes over and over again. Time travel? Stop the clock? It can't be done. Not now anyway. "Trying" to pretend that one is "trying" to do such a think is unhealthy...it's insane. Why not go forward looking for something better than it's ever been?"earlier values"? Like having police that were more like people and less like a military machine that considers us all suspect as being the "enemy"? Like back when we didn't associate screaming, cursing, and stark bullying from a police officer? Maybe he means the "values" that led teenage girls to swallow whole bottles of aspirin or use coat hangers on themselves because they were afraid they were pregnant? Back to the "values" of segregation? Back to the good ole days when you could own another person? The "values" that allowed people to burn other people as witches or hang them on the spot for some offense that they perhaps didn't even do. Some people really would like to return to those sort of "values". We can't go back and we shouldn't try to. It wasn't all that good. It had a lot of really bad things roiling beneath and not so beneath the surface of earlier times. Hindsight isn't always twenty twenty. Sometimes it's a delusion.There's a lot wrong right now. We should go forward by making it better...not trying to stop progress...or time...or turn back the clock. Some values we are born with...we have them naturally...some we learn. I can tell you something from my 57 years here. Many, many values of "earlier times" were hideous. We've always had pornography. We've always had prostitution. We've always had brother killing brother. We have always had bullies. We have always had suffering. The values we should have have something to do with alleviating and stopping the suffering that is so a part of this world. Let's go forward. Let's do better than we ever have."Oh", I think to my God, "Why can't they see?" Let's go forward to something better. Let's seek something better and go forward. I'm so sick of that "excuse"...that whining...about wanting to go back and force us all "back to a better time." Hogwash.Let's go forward...let's work to make things really better, without dragging our feet and whining and wishing for things...like "going back". Bring the things from the past with you that are any good and leave the rest where it belongs...a stark lesson and reminder from the past.
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Comment #31 posted by FoM on October 27, 2005 at 11:40:04 PT

Dankhank
We are informed people. We have been shaped by our own lives. I never remember the legalization of hard drugs back in the 70s even being mentioned but Cannabis shouldn't be against the law was commonly heard.I did Meth back in the 70s and it would have been hard to get caught because it all can go up your nose or in your arm fairly easily. Cannabis has a powerful aroma and it is easy to get caught. Cannabis is bulky not like a fine powder. 
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Comment #30 posted by Dankhank on October 27, 2005 at 11:28:41 PT

Focus
The sad part of a push to legalize is that many are addicts already and others believe that if we legalize all hell will break loose.I submit that hell is already with us, we must do something different and legalization makes the most sense.The "hard" drugs are all concentrations/distillations conducive to smuggling since they take up less space. Nobody is smuggling a coca plant or poppies. This came about due to prohibition.The detective talked about Cannabis in the beginning a bit and said some dumb things about Amsterdam, and bad effects of using Cannabis. I corrected him there as well.I support your position and usually try to stay on task.:-)
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Comment #29 posted by FoM on October 27, 2005 at 11:13:02 PT

One More Thing Dankhank
Even though I don't believe in hard drug legalization I don't think anyone should go to jail for using a hard drug. If a person gets in trouble while under the influence of a hard drug I believe they need help but jail won't help them.
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Comment #28 posted by FoM on October 27, 2005 at 11:05:13 PT

Dankhank 
Thanks for telling me. I really am not able to understand the legalization of drugs but that is because I have lost friends and family to hard drugs and legalization wouldn't have made it so that they were still here. For me that will have to be someone elses battle. I can only do what I believe is right and when I violate my conscience I have to quit doing what I'm doing. I hope you understand what I mean.
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Comment #27 posted by Dankhank on October 27, 2005 at 10:59:25 PT

Cannabis Wars?
FoM, it's not about the drug ... it's about the money ...While I think that few "wars" break out over Cannabis turf it must happen because it's about the money ...On a related note ...Tues night I attended a talk about the meth ills here in OK, given by a local Narcotics detective.I was there mainly to hear current thought re: Meth.Quite the scare show, but the most interesting thing the Det. said was, "The drug war has been lost."He wouldn't go the next step and entertain the idea of legalization. I asked him if he had ever heard of LEAP and he said no.I prodded him a little more as he was leaving and he said that what we, law enforcement, are trying to return America to a better time and to get America to it's earlier values.I pointed out to him that traditional values of humans for most of human history was to allow use of all plants and "medicines," and that what we, the country, have been doing for the last hundred years or so was to try to wrench Americans to a NEW view and that it was failing.I went home later, found his email address and sent him the link for LEAP.The detective knew about the money. He couldn't see the value of legalization.

Education on Hemp and Stuff
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Comment #26 posted by FoM on October 27, 2005 at 09:57:03 PT

Republican Conservatives
This is what I think is a republican conservative. They want everyone to go to church on sunday. They are against the rights of women to decide if they want to have an abortion. They don't even care that the Levee in New Orleans was not acceptable to protect particularly the poor that lived in the zone that was hit hardest. That doesn't sound conservative to me but very selfish. People have said that the hippie culture was a me me culture. I think republicans are me me people and the heck with anyone else.
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Comment #25 posted by siege on October 27, 2005 at 09:41:57 PT

SECLECTIVE
It appear that we will have to be at every rally that comes up from this point ON, For recreational and medical marijuana,, and be every SECLECTIVE about who we send our Donations too...
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Comment #24 posted by FoM on October 27, 2005 at 09:38:00 PT

Republican Conservatives
I can't imagine anyone involved in trying to seriously reform the laws surrounding cannabis to be a republican. How could anyone be a republican and a cannabis activist because they don't care about social issues? I am so darn confused. A serious cannabis activist would have to be a Democrat or a Green if they are into politics. Maybe I'm totally off base but that's how I feel.
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Comment #23 posted by Toker00 on October 27, 2005 at 09:19:02 PT

Republican Conservatives
Norml is split, too, FoM. DFWNorml was asked to participate in the rally under a different name, and refused. DFWNorml pres. told me Houstonnorml was offered the same deal, and were willing to accept it. I say if we let these people sneak medical cannabis in, the rest of us will still be persecuted and prosecuted for using cannabis the same way patients do. And it is not just about legalizing the flower. Cannabis is a generous plant in it's entirety. Why allow the "dangerous part" to be legalized, and not the rest of the plant, which is equally beneficial to man?This ASA group I encountered and certain factions of Norml even, are distancing themselves from the very people who are making medical cannabis possible. But it's just like a Republican conservative group to practice class-ism (We want the drug, but we don't want association with the culture) If we allow them to exclude us, and make cannabis medically available, but not recreational and all other ways, those ways may never be done legally. I say we do everything we can to remain visible as a culture and to demand our rightful place in this movement, which is at the head of it! CANNABISTS UNITE AGAINST SELECTIVE LEGALIZATION OF CANNABIS! Either legalize the entire plant, or keep arresting patients along with the rest of us.! Oh yeah, and your children will still have easy access to heroin!  
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Comment #22 posted by FoM on October 27, 2005 at 09:03:04 PT

siege 
I agree with you. That was a terrible thing to say. It makes me never want to go visit Philly again if things truly are that bad.
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Comment #21 posted by siege on October 27, 2005 at 09:00:16 PT

message
In his message he has just give the government the ammunition they want to say No to medical marijuana, if this man can not do any better then this he had better get himself a speech writer...

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Comment #20 posted by FoM on October 27, 2005 at 08:52:21 PT

siege
I read that and didn't understand it either. I spent over 20 years of my life back near Philly and have been to Philly many times. It is a very tough city and was even way back many years ago but I don't think that Cannabis is what would cause turf wars. I believe hard drugs cause turf wars but not strickly cannabis.
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Comment #19 posted by siege on October 27, 2005 at 08:38:21 PT

 sound like under cover DEA
 said Nikolas Varrone, co-founder and treasurer of Philly NORML,
Varrone is aware of the risk of his message being tainted by casual users and by those who sell marijuana, which in turn can lead to violence and death."If the government is aiming for anyone, they're aiming for sales; with sales, you can get into a bit of trouble," Varrone said. "The problem is with sales, you have to hold your turf. These guys are law-breakers; they buy themselves a Tec-9, outfit it to be fully automatic, and they set up shop. When they get kicked out of an area, they only come back to fight for more space.

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Comment #18 posted by FoM on October 27, 2005 at 07:36:36 PT

Toker00 
I am totally confused now. Here's in an article about Philly NORML and the protests. Do they refuse leaves to be seen like ASA does? Who is running the show? Does anyone know? I'm so out of the loop on these things and I really do want to know.Protesters Rally for a Dose of Their Own Medicine:
http://cannabisnews.com/news/thread21237.shtml
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Comment #17 posted by FoM on October 27, 2005 at 07:27:23 PT

Mayan
Yes may this be a good day!

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Comment #16 posted by mayan on October 27, 2005 at 07:21:09 PT

Misc.
The sky hasn't fallen in Britain since reclassification. The number of cannabis users has...Fall in numbers using cannabis (UK):
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/articles/health/thehealthnews.html?in_article_id=366755&in_page_id=1797&in_a_source=Other news...Pot backers can't stoke Hickenlooper:
http://www.rockymountainnews.com/drmn/local/article/0,1299,DRMN_15_4189668,00.htmlCity's marijuana ordinance has some smoking:
http://www.thedesertsun.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20051027/NEWS01/510270335/1006/news01Few medical marijuana venues here:
http://www.insidebayarea.com/sanmateocountytimes/localnews/ci_3155930State to tax medical marijuana dispensaries:
http://www.santacruzsentinel.com/archive/2005/October/27/local/stories/01local.htmFoM, Why would they want to break up the 9th Circuit? Oh yeah, the 9th Circuit consistently upholds The Constitution. It's no wonder the republican controlled congress has lower poll numbers than Bush. They are such arrogant power mongers! If Rove gets indicted today watch the republican party dissolve before our eyes! May this be a good day!
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Comment #15 posted by FoM on October 27, 2005 at 06:55:05 PT

News Article from The Associated Press
Republicans Try Again To Split Appeals Court in TwoBy Erica Werner, Associated PressOctober 27, 2005WASHINGTON - Republicans in Congress are renewing their push to break up the San Francisco-based 9th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals, arguing the nation's largest federal appeals court -- the frequent source of rulings that infuriate conservatives -- has become too big to be effective.http://www.contracostatimes.com/mld/cctimes/news/politics/13009330.htm
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Comment #14 posted by mayan on October 27, 2005 at 06:42:00 PT

Gotta' Start Somewhere
"The bottom line is that marijuana is illegal at this time," Lennon said, "and I don't know if Ferndale is the place to start (to legalize it). Maybe the state is."Everywhere is the place to start! The folks at the top won't listen so we have to start at the bottom. Eventually, when every city,town,municipality,county and state have passed laws then the folks at the top will have to listen...or they will be removed. Lennon also said marijuana is a gateway drug and that teens who smoke it are 85 times more likely to use cocaine.I would have to say that is the most ridiculous statement I've heard or read this month. Maybe this year! 85 times, eh? Right. Sure. Oh, my God. Even twice as likely would be a stretch! 85 times...BWAAHAAHAAAHAAAA!!! It's no wonder Mike Lennon is so lonely. Unrelated...Miers Withdraws Supreme Court Nomination: 
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20051027/ap_on_go_su_co/miers_withdrawsCurious timing. Indictments against some key White House neo-cons could also come today. The heat is on. 

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Comment #13 posted by FoM on October 27, 2005 at 06:24:27 PT

Toker00 
I agree with you but I'll go ahead and say what I think too. Follow the money. Who makes ASA make decisions about leafs not being allowed? I'm not sure but I think I know who funds the group. I really appreciate NORML's efforts more then any other group. They are more friendly to us in my opinion. They have a very big web site made for us to learn. We shouldn't be ignored or putdown but we have been and that's the sad truth. I'll stand by NORML since they have always been kind to me. That's how I judge a group but I won't judge the individuals in a group since that wouldn't be fair of me to do.
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Comment #12 posted by siege on October 27, 2005 at 05:46:45 PT

be divided
ASA is disrespecting the cannabis movement this is why they can not Generate the man/woman power that is needed to win, and the government see it so they will use it against them. They are a stand alone group stand alone and be divided. The new kind of cannabis prohibition with the New kid on the block.
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Comment #11 posted by Toker00 on October 27, 2005 at 03:53:10 PT

Jim Lundsford , FoM, Hope
That is the point I have been trying to get across to all the different groups I am involved with. If you will think about our cause, it DOES include just about every cause we are fighting for separately. Is it more important to legalize for medicine, or to stop incarceration? What is the most dangerous thing about cannabis for medical users? JAIL. Recreational users? JAIL. Is it worse to deprive a sick person medicine (though they can buy it on the street) or is it worse to put a young man/woman in JAIL and subject him/her to violent, homosexual prison rape, physical beatings and spirit killings? Will it be ok for patients to use, but not ok to prevent sodomy? That is why I feel so strongly about EVERYGROUP to include the horror of prison. Not wanting cannabis activists who have TAUGHT the medical profession about medical cannabis present at medical "marijuana" rallies because they might show a leaf, is totally hypocritical. I understand your point, FoM, about specializing, but for ASA to come along after all the work activists have done across the board for cannabis reform, and claim fame to reform while pushing the real reformers back, is wrong. ASA disrespecting the cannabis leaf is alot like our families shunning us. In my O. And another thing. I wonder why they didn't tell me about the pot leaf not being welcome when I called to get my signs ok'd? DFWNorml was prepared to send out hundreds of notices of the rally to it's members in Dallas, but the notices were deleted when ASA sent them the note about no cannabis leaves allowed. I appreciate DFWNorml President for seeing the big picture on this, too.Hope, you are very welcome, and I have intentions of doing much more. I just wish, like Jim, that we could all pull together and not pull apart.Wage peace on war. END CANNABIS PROHIBITION NOW! 
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Comment #10 posted by FoM on October 26, 2005 at 21:43:45 PT

A Memorial Page for Jane Weirick
Here is a Memorial page for Jane Weirick. I didn't know her but I remember her from seeing her on tv and in the one California List I get. She was a dedicated activist and way to young to die. Rest in Peace Janehttp://www.budfairy.com/
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Comment #9 posted by FoM on October 26, 2005 at 21:18:34 PT

Relaxing in a Hemp Based Global Economy
Boy does that sound good to me!
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Comment #8 posted by Jim Lunsford on October 26, 2005 at 21:14:43 PT

foM
I don't disagree that much with your policy. And the little I do disagree with, isn't worth noting. My thought is that in time, all the different groups will band together as one. But when they are ready. But, I disagree totally at your fighting for it at 70, I really think it will happen much sooner than that. I hope that when you are 70, you will be relaxing in a hemp based global economy. It is certainly one possibility out of an endless sea of choices. But, these are choices a society has to make. Not an individual. They crucified Christ before, so why would any one person stand up, when they know it has to involve everyone. As a country, I don't believe we have suffered enough for everyone to realize just how much cannabis legalization means to them on a personal level. But at least some people are getting the word out. Perhaps the new medicare bill, which has to seek value in it's medicines, will help speed up cannabis legalization once we get the bill. Christian Science Monitor Reports Medicare bill holds a revolutionhttp://www.csmonitor.com/2005/1027/p13s01-lihc.htmlI personally belive that a hemp based economy would generate a lot more bang for the buck than an oil based one. But, that's just my opinion.Rev Jim LunsfordFirst Cannabist ChurchLife: What most put off because they fear death
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Comment #7 posted by FoM on October 26, 2005 at 21:06:06 PT

Hope and everyone
Here's are pictures with the signs they use. These are the ones I have seen at least during protests in D.C. and California.http://www.freedomtoexhale.com/gc.htmhttp://www.freedomtoexhale.com/protestpics.htmhttp://boards.marihemp.com/boards/drugpolicy/media/3/3090.jpghttp://boards.marihemp.com/boards/drugpolicy/media/3/3091.jpghttp://boards.marihemp.com/boards/drugpolicy/media/3/3092.jpghttp://boards.marihemp.com/boards/drugpolicy/media/3/3093.jpghttp://boards.marihemp.com/boards/drugpolicy/media/3/3094.jpg

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Comment #6 posted by FoM on October 26, 2005 at 20:55:22 PT

Jim and everyone
For me I don't disagree with any ones approach to reform. I just think we are becoming specialists in our own areas. We don't all care about politics so that won't work all the time. Some don't care about decriminalization of marijuana but only full legalization. The important thing is that we don't get upset with each other while we are trying to accomplish change. We aren't each others enemies. I personally know people that don't care about drug issues at all but care about cannabis related issues. I am 57 and I want to see change concerning Cannabis before I can't keep fighting for change. Drug issues will take many more years and I don't have the energy to go on until I'm 70 or even older. You see what I mean? I believe success comes in small steps. 
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Comment #5 posted by Hope on October 26, 2005 at 20:48:42 PT

Toker00
It's good to hear you made it home safe and sound.I'm sorry about the bit of trouble. That's just strange about the pot leaf medical cross symbol. I thought it was a symbol of the medical movement."... many minutes recorded by local news camera." Wish I'd watched the Dallas news tonight. I'm just about a hundred miles from Dallas and should be able to find a Dallas paper tomorrow. Thank you for doing so much, Toker00. Thank you.
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Comment #4 posted by Jim Lunsford on October 26, 2005 at 20:41:12 PT

Toker 00
Congrats on your efforts! I used to skydive in Texas. Learned in Dallas, but was also at Spaceland, just south of Houston. Good to hear some of those memories.While I respect the wishes of this site, I do hope that in the future, all of the different groups could band together under a single cause; to make a better society. Not just the drug groups either.We have a lot of related causes, that are beginning to reach out to each other a bit more in the public eye. Cannabis cuts across a lot of borders. Environmentalists, national security, economists, political futures, just to name a few of the lesser mentioned groups. I think that a plant with as many uses as cannabis, is an excellent focus for change in a freer society.But, everything has it's own time. That time will be here when enough people figure out that it's all one cause. I guess at that time, the change will happen. I just wonder how much suffering we are willing to endure before that time comes. And then, we will probably ask ourselves? What were we thinking? Peace, Rev JimRev Jim LunsfordFirst Cannabist ChurchSuffering: All that fear ever delivers
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Comment #3 posted by FoM on October 26, 2005 at 20:22:40 PT

Toker00
It sure sounds like you had an interesting day. ASA is medical cannabis only. They specialize in medical cannabis. It's like me and not wanting to bring drug issues into cannabis issues. Organizations focus closely on issues and that is so they can make progress. It's being a specialist in a very broad field of activism. I wouldn't take it that they aren't interested but just very centered on their important issue.
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Comment #2 posted by Toker00 on October 26, 2005 at 20:00:25 PT

ASA meets Toker00
Back. What a trip. Hope, quess how many people showed up, at the beginning? 12! But we grew to about 20. How close are you to Dallas? Close enough to check the paper tomorrow? There may be pics.Weird meeting. The day before the rally, I e-mailed ASA to tell them I would be bringing signs, and asked them what would be appropriate. Their reply, anything relating to medical "marijuana" but nothing drug-war related. I picked out six of my medical cannabis signs, and headed north. I got there and found the group, ASA, across the street from HHS, preparing to cross the street and begin the rally. I introduced myself and told them I had signs and would meet them in front of HHS after I got them from my truck. When they saw them, two of the organizers told me I couldn't use them because, get this, they have "pot leaves" on them. Yeah, imposed on a red cross. So? Each sign was medical cannabis related. I was told ASA was not associated with the legalization movement, and didn't want PICTURES OF POT LEAVES AT THIS RALLY. Only these two members objected to the signs. I had driven from south of Houston to get to this rally, had pre-approved the type of signs allowed, and so yes, I used them. According the President of DFWNorml, who was there, this was a public rally. I was approached again by ASA and asked if we could work together on this, and I replied sure, we can all work together to end cannabis prohibition. Maybe I shouldn't have told the organizers I thought they were being hypocritical, but I did. I told them "No jail for Cannabis possession." Again I was told they were not a part of the legalization movement and did not want the pot leaves visible. One organizer even put HER sign over some I had leaning against the building. They were being hypocritical again, so I told them. Again, and again, I told the entire crowd "No jail for cannabis possession, ever!" and "No one should have to go to prison for possessing a plant that is beneficial to them." They finally got my point and let us be. The people who happened by and took my signs made no beef about it. I hope I wasn't being a bully. I just can't see them wanting to legalize the very part of the plant that the government claims is dangerous, and yet shunning the leaves of the lovely cannabis plant. Although 20 people are not a lot, we made a bold statement in public. ASA was allowed to go inside and meet with the District HHS officials on rescheduling "marijuana" so it can be used as a MEDICINE! They shun those of us, and I mean most of you, who have spent years educating the public about cannabis, and our culture, yet embrace the "evil" marijuana as medicine while rejecting the rest of gentle cannabis/hemp plant. Free the medicine, but keep arresting the pot heads! I met a wonderful cannabis patient, I was sort of upset, so I forgot his name. I'm so sorry. He shook my hand vigorously and understood it's more than just about cannabis as medicine. I was proud to meet this man, he gave a wonderful speech, many minutes recorded by local news camera. I am sorry if I offended anyone in the medical cannabis movement, but I believe prohibition should be repealed for everyone. Long day. Sleepy now.Wage peace on war. END CANNABIS PROHIBITION NOW! 
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Comment #1 posted by ekim on October 26, 2005 at 19:50:20 PT

elected ones are not representing the over 60 %
Councilman Mike Lennon — who is against Proposal D — asked his fellow elected officials to join him in a resolution against the ballot proposal but failed to gain any supportA similar proposal was approved in Detroit by 60 percent of voters last year.The resolution that Lennon tried to introduce Monday was modeled on a resolution the Michigan House of Representatives passed, 96-7, last year against the medical use of marijuana without federal drug approval.
http://www.minorml.org
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