cannabisnews.com: Pot Backers Won't Halt Domestic Violence Ads










  Pot Backers Won't Halt Domestic Violence Ads

Posted by CN Staff on October 15, 2005 at 06:26:59 PT
By Alan Gathright, Rocky Mountain News 
Source: Rocky Mountain News 

Colorado -- A pro-pot group Friday rejected domestic violence advocates' demands to stop the Monday debut of three Denver billboards showing a battered woman and urging voters to reduce violence by passing a marijuana legalization measure. The billboards show a downcast woman with a black eye, her abuser lurking behind her, and the slogan: "Reduce family and community violence in Denver. Vote Yes on I-100." Nowhere is there a mention that Initiative 100's passage would amend Denver law to make it legal for adults to possess 1 ounce or less of marijuana. 
Women's advocates said the "disgraceful and appalling" ads mislead voters and ignore the root causes of domestic violence. "It really is trying to sell the issue of marijuana on the backs of the victims of domestic violence, when the two really having nothing to do with each other," said Ellen Stein Wallace, executive director of SafeHouse Denver, which runs a women's shelter and a counseling center. "I have not seen any research to show that marijuana use decreases domestic violence." Supporters of I-100, known as the Alcohol-Marijuana Equalization Initiative, maintain that if adults are allowed the alternative of smoking pot it might reduce drinking, which they say causes more violence. "A 2001 report by the Denver Domestic Violence Fatality Review Committee found that 50 percent of domestic violence cases in the city involved alcohol and alcohol was involved in the predominant number of fatal cases," said Mason Tvert, head of the Yes-on-100 group, Safer Alternative for Enjoyable Recreation (SAFER). But Wallace said the key to ending domestic violence is treating abusers' drive to have power and control over their victims. "If you are not an abusive person already, drinking or getting drunk is not going to make you abusive," she said. The founder of the Massachusetts marijuana-reform group that independently paid less than $10,000 for the billboards, rejected calls to halt the ads. "That's the most ridiculous thing I've heard," said Joe White of Change the Climate. "We're the ones who are trying to raise consciousness (about domestic violence). We're (anti-violence groups) allies in this issue. I don't understand why they're targeting us."Newshawk: MayanSource: Denver Rocky Mountain News (CO)Author:  Alan Gathright, Rocky Mountain NewsPublished: October 15, 2005Copyright: 2005 Denver Publishing Co.Contact: letters rockymountainnews.comWebsite: http://www.rockymountainnews.com/Related Articles & Web Sites:Safer Choicehttp://www.saferchoice.org/Change The Climatehttp://www.changetheclimate.org/Pot Law Backers Draw Flakhttp://cannabisnews.com/news/thread21190.shtmlPot Measure Put on City Ballothttp://cannabisnews.com/news/thread21052.shtmlGroup To Ask Denver Voters To Legalize Pothttp://cannabisnews.com/news/thread20656.shtml 

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Comment #181 posted by OverwhelmSam on October 19, 2005 at 05:26:14 PT
runderwo
Study all you want, but the only way to find out if people will prefer marijuana over alcohol is to legalize and regulate marijuana and see what happens. Instead of a study, I propose a few governmental guidelines along with regulation:On mixing alcohol and marijuana, the government and Society should educate the public and advise against it. You indicate that if it weed were legalized that you would have people mixing the two. I remind you that issue is moot because it's not legalized, and people do it now. So it makes no difference whether marijuana is legalized or not. Some people are going to mix drugs just like they do with caffiene and nicotine. I will note that people who mix marijuana and alcohol still become violent under the effects of the alcohol, and the marijuana only abates their aggressiveness moderatley.On drinking and or using marijuana and driving. Again, a moot point because it doesn't matter whether marijuana is legalized or not, it's already happening. However, the vast majority of drinkers and marijuana users, myself included, do not drive imparied by alcohol, marijuana, emotional distress, fatigue, kids screaming and fighting in the back seat, daydreaming, road rage, or the multitude of other impairments that can cause one to be careless while driving. The government and Society should continue to educate the public on driving impaired and have stiff penalties for the people who are caught or cause an accident while impaired.These points dispelled, I think promoting marijuana to reduce domestic violence is a worthy avenue of consideration for the families of America. The next time you hear about a full grown man under the influence of alcohol using his fist to bash in his wife's or five year old daughter's face and teeth and blood fly across the room, think about the women and children who would be saved by ANY number of violent prone people who chose to switch from alcohol to marijuana.
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Comment #180 posted by Hope on October 18, 2005 at 19:00:28 PT
Well...seems no one to with converse with.
Believe I'll just mosey on out of here.(I sound like that squirrel on Sponge Bob...don't I? Whoever does that, does it well.)
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Comment #179 posted by Hope on October 18, 2005 at 18:57:36 PT
Greenjoy, you made me laugh.
"Your parroting my titles isn't gonna getcha any closer to it."
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Comment #178 posted by Hope on October 18, 2005 at 18:55:53 PT
Whoa...you are VERY unhappy. I am sorry.
"this damn computer that has freed me from complete pointless, hopeless apathy and big-brother's fascist control over my lousy life."
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Comment #177 posted by Hope on October 18, 2005 at 18:53:32 PT
You have to work too much?
In a deep hole all by yourself?
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Comment #176 posted by Hope on October 18, 2005 at 18:49:55 PT
Share what you have.
Make friends.You don't have to have a lot of money.Ulcers are bad. I've had them. You can function on some level better than a lot of folks.Teach someone to read.
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Comment #175 posted by Hope on October 18, 2005 at 18:47:49 PT
Unkat27
Their are poor people and some not so poor people who couldn't do much more than...maybe look at pictures or play some sort of game if they had computers at their disposal.They cannot read. Teach someone to read.
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Comment #174 posted by Hope on October 18, 2005 at 18:24:20 PT
Unkat27...Go out and make some friends.
"Whats to enjoy about it? I have an ulcer, a bad spleen, alcohol is a poison to me, I have no safe access to cannabis, thanks to the lousy fascists that rule this so-called democracy, and I'm in debt over my head trying to pay off this damn computer that has freed me from complete pointless, hopeless apathy and big-brother's fascist control over my lousy life."Try. You have to try.
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Comment #173 posted by Hope on October 18, 2005 at 18:12:32 PT
Poor Alcoholics and Alcohol and Catholics
I can assure you that there are a lot of poor, alcoholic Baptists and Church of Christ even, out there...or here...or in the US. There are a lot of poor alcoholics.
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Comment #172 posted by Hope on October 18, 2005 at 18:03:58 PT
I disagree, UnKat.
"They don't want us to be smart, they want us to be stupid because it makes us more dependent on them for everything."I think they probably just don't want you to get pregnant or get anyone pregnant before it's a good time to.
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Comment #171 posted by Hope on October 18, 2005 at 17:59:12 PT
Unkat
"The fact is most of the people with first-hand knowledge of this hard-reality are suffering in poverty and have no voice online at this time. Otherwise, I'm sure we'd hear from them."E_Johnson is not suffering in poverty...but she knows about this, I assure you. Alcoholism and domestic violence are not reserved to the poverty stricken.You're a very sensitive person. I can tell that about you. You hurt for a lot of people. I'm like that, too. You must be careful about lashing out, though. You may be lashing out at people who are on your side, who really do understand some, a lot, or all of what you're talking about..
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Comment #170 posted by GreenJoy on October 18, 2005 at 17:11:20 PT
Tsk Tsk UnKat
 Even if I did have some herb to share. Your parroting my titles isn't gonna getcha any closer to it. Actually, the only thing burning around here is the pilot light and the back of my neck. Keep your pilot light lit and Bon Voyage!
 GJ
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Comment #169 posted by runderwo on October 18, 2005 at 16:30:29 PT
unkat
Why not The Netherlands? At least smoking is not illegal there, even if you have to jump through hoops to get it. And The Netherlands is a much more civilized place than Africa. Unless you had other reasons for wanting to settle in Africa...
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Comment #168 posted by runderwo on October 18, 2005 at 16:28:59 PT
OverwhelmSam
It's possible, but they are making a rather large leap by saying that pot is a substitute for alcohol. Yes, it *can* be used as a substitute for alcohol depending on the effects you are seeking, but is that predominantly what happens in the real world?I'm not sure if any studies have established that given a choice between alcohol and pot, that most alcohol drinkers would switch. (Or, more importantly, that alcohol drinkers that tend towards violent behavior would switch.)In fact that is a key prohibitionist argument. "What, you want to unleash *another* mind-altering drug on the world to add to nicotine and alcohol?" And it is a problem with the safe driving point too. Pot smokers are safer drivers than drinkers (and perhaps even safer than baseline depending on how you massage the statistics), but people who both drink and smoke pot are worse off than either. So the argument goes that we will see more people on the road both drunk and stoned if marijuana is legalized. This argument boils down to whether the substitution effect occurs as well. The antis argue that it does not, so you will simply add pot to drunk people on the road, increasing the danger to other drivers. The legalizers argue that it does occur, so all the drunk drivers will become stoned drivers instead, increasing safety.I don't think the substitution effect has been studies sufficiently in order to be cut and dried enough to base a political ad on. That is, if we wish to retain credibility. On the other hand, to some people, the gloves are off and anything goes at this point since the prohibs have shown they will stop at nothing to have their way. I must say I've gone a bit in that direction myself after thoroughly studying this topic. I'm still not sure if enough antis have died off yet to make an all-out onslaught the correct procedure yet.
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Comment #167 posted by unkat27 on October 18, 2005 at 15:42:19 PT
Well GreenJoy
I don't want your sympathy. I want some of that bud your burning! Damn, do i need it! Big bro don't care how much I suffer -- that's the reality of the USA! I'm outa here as soon as I get outa debt!
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Comment #166 posted by GreenJoy on October 18, 2005 at 14:33:20 PT
Well UnKat
 You are Scrooging hard. I'm not surprised that you have an ulcer and a bad spleen. You are a poison unto yourself. Change your heart and the rest will follow. If you really think you'd have it better in a thoroughly 3rd world country then I suggest that once you can afford it you take a long, slow boat one of them and give it a try. I'm not going to feel sorry for you any longer. GJ
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Comment #165 posted by unkat27 on October 18, 2005 at 14:15:55 PT
GreenJoy
"I hope that someday you can put the grievous past behind at least enough to enjoy this day, this life that you have now."Whats to enjoy about it? I have an ulcer, a bad spleen, alcohol is a poison to me, I have no safe access to cannabis, thanks to the lousy fascists that rule this so-called democracy, and I'm in debt over my head trying to pay off this damn computer that has freed me from complete pointless, hopeless apathy and big-brother's fascist control over my lousy life. BS, at least in Bangi or Sudan I'd be able to fight back. Fighting back here just gets one tossed into the zoo to be treated like an animal. oh, and I'm fairly sure I'd be able to smoke cannabis in Banghi without being threatened with imprisonment by nosey neighbors and local rat-dogs.
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Comment #164 posted by GreenJoy on October 18, 2005 at 11:46:42 PT
Unkat27
 It sounds like you had a rotten childhood. I hope that someday you can put the grievous past behind at least enough to enjoy this day, this life that you have now. Imagine what it is like to be born in Bangladesh, or the Sudan. There is no way to rise above that kind of adversity. So many are born to do nothing but endure and then die. A book on Buddhism I'm reading says that a soul can reappear for as many as 10,000 lifetimes before 
it finally figures it all out. Show the universe that you deserve a better deal next time. Turn it around. Carpe diem.GJ 
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Comment #163 posted by unkat27 on October 18, 2005 at 10:23:21 PT
Hope
"I guess you want to be "eaten alive" this morning."I hesitate to get involved in many of these discussions, but this one I could not avoid. That should tell you how very serious I am about this particular issue. I've seen some of the very worst effects of alcohol abuse in my youth and it continues to haunt my subconscious 25 years after escaping it. The fact is most of the people with first-hand knowledge of this hard-reality are suffering in poverty and have no voice online at this time. Otherwise, I'm sure we'd hear from them. Alcoholism is particularly problematic among poor catholics, because the Catholic Church practices the "abstain from sex and scare 'em straight" method of complete servitude with little reward. Too much ignorance, damn little truth. They don't want us to be smart, they want us to be stupid because it makes us more dependent on them for everything.I did a search on Poverty and Alcohol, as well as Poor Alcoholics and Alcohol and Catholics. The results tell me that this is an area in dire need of more research. My guess is most of the people concerned are too busy working and coping with social, medical and psychological problems to find the time to do the research. As am I, unfortunately, at this time.
Excuse my Crude behavior, but the US Government Makes Me Sick!
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Comment #162 posted by OverwhelmSam on October 18, 2005 at 04:09:40 PT
Pot Reduces Domestic Violence and Violent Crime
It occurs to me that the marijuana legalization groups might have touched on something here. Regulating marijuana for adult use promotes less overall comsuption of alcohol which in turn reduces battered spouses, children and criminal violence. Promoting a reduction of domestic violence may be the key to give politicians the avenue to finally vote for marijuana distribution and regulation.
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Comment #161 posted by runderwo on October 17, 2005 at 21:21:50 PT
gloovins
Alcohol's role in violence isn't due to its nature as a depressant; in fact that would confound it if anything. It is due primarily to the loss of inhibition that accompanies alcohol inebriation. This loss of inhibition can be beneficial to some people, but other people need that inhibition to keep their aggressive and unreasonable nature in check. When alcohol dissolves it, the problems begin.
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Comment #160 posted by FoM on October 17, 2005 at 12:50:46 PT
gloovins 
It's ok to think I make ignorant comments but it was the truth as I see the truth. I'm far from perfect.
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Comment #159 posted by gloovins on October 17, 2005 at 12:45:30 PT
Fom, E_J
"Since I look at drug issues everyday I thought I should say how I feel about this. If it was in my state I wouldn't vote on the issue at all. I'd skip it. I saw an initiative in Nevada a year or so ago that I wouldn't have voted on either. I turn and walk away. If something doesn't make sense to me after some time looking at an issue I won't act on it. That's just me. I don't pay attention to hard drug issues either."That was the most ignorant comment I have ever read from you, FoM. If I have explain why, forget it.& E_Johnson, you should realize that cannabis use over alcohol is 9 times out of 10 going to make the user calmer, more relaxed and insightful. Alcohol is a nervous system depressant - hence the propensity to violence. Duhhhh.& yes I lived with my parents who who both alcoholics in the "Reagan 80's". Mom killed herself trying to drink on her last night of her life, it burned right through her intestinal lining and due to her advanced cirrosis of her liver, she died Nov 2, 1990. My dad was no where to be found. But he did eventually give up alcohol but it took my mothers death for him to do so. They never fought physically it's just, you care I believe too much about "the message" of cannabis being a wiser choice over alcohol because cannabis users tend to be calmer, relaxed, etc. and NOT have a tendency for violence. Got news for you the E J -- it's the truth!BTW, who even gives a fuck about OJ today anyway now ??!!
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Comment #158 posted by Toker00 on October 17, 2005 at 09:26:39 PT
Here's another angle.
I toked and drank, both, for a few years and wound up getting into fights in bars, which is against my nature. I stopped the alcohol, stuck with cannabis. I am far more level headed now than I ever was in my drinking years. So I feel leaving out the alcohol period, whether you toke or not, will reduce violence. But, I can only speak for the violence I encountered in a bar, because I have never abused family members, even when soused. So I guess there are different avenues for violence, and mine was never family or spousal abuse. Maybe just staying out of bars could have helped. : )Wage peace on war. END CANNABIS PROHIBITION NOW! 
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Comment #157 posted by Hope on October 17, 2005 at 09:17:55 PT
Unkat
I guess you want to be "eaten alive" this morning.
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Comment #156 posted by unkat27 on October 17, 2005 at 07:46:56 PT
I disagree, E_Johnson
"For one thing, legalizing marijuana is not going to make serious drinkers give up drinking"I really have to wonder how much REAL experience you have with this issue, E_Johnson. First of all, many so-called "serious drinkers" would never get to be so "serious" about drinking to begin with if they had more legal options.Another thing you said was that alcohol is not the underlying cause of domestic violence, that a form of mindset is. While you do have a point, what you apparently fail to realize is that alcohol DOES INCREASE domestic violence. One of the main reasons why it does this is because people who abuse alcohol tend to do things that they don't even think about and would never do if they were not under the influence of alcohol.Take it from a guy who knows, I was raised in the house of an alcoholic and I lived with the problem, including the domestic violence for years. My step-father, once reformed and attending AA, admitted that he COULD NOT RECALL most of the violent episodes he experienced. Once confronted with the reality of his DISEASE, he was terribly heart-broken at all the pain he had caused. Alcohol does terrible things to otherwise good-hearted people when they abuse it. There is a reason why they call it demon-alcohol. It's because it possesses and controls good people and makes them do terrible things. I have never known marijuana to have such adverse effects.I don't think the ad is misleading or wrong, I think it is a smart political device. Don't tell me that politics doesn't use smart devices whenever it needs to get people interested in an issue, it does it all the time.
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Comment #155 posted by unkat27 on October 17, 2005 at 07:18:19 PT
I'm a Victim of Alcohol Abuse
My step-father was an alcoholic and beat my mother every weekend for almost 4 years straight before she got smart and snuck out the backdoor while he was sleeping it off. I wondered why it took her so long and now i know. We had a large family and she couldn't leave them all or drag them all out with her, so she had to wait until the 3 oldest were out of the house and on their own. Being the youngest, I was still with my mom when she left the drunken bum. He wasted away for a few months before crawling back to her on his hands and knees. He couldn't make it without her, he was too damn stupid and couldn't even balance the bills. He reformed after that and went to AA, but the effects of living with a violent alcoholic haunted my subconscious for years. I suffered insomnia and awful nightmares which made my social performance very poor. I failed to hold jobs, failed to pass my second year of college, and failed to hold onto my girlfriend. Nobody in my family would ever admit it, but a psychologist later diagnosed me as suffereing from a serious nervous condition known as a schizoid personality disorder. Ten years after I left the house of my parents and that reformed alcoholic step-father, I still suffered from the adverse effects of his violent episodes. I endured repeating nightmares in which he attacked my mother and me, killed me several times over, and woke up in the early hours of the morning sweating and in a terrible panic. Whenever that happened, sometimes as often as 2 or 3 times a week, I couldn't sleep and suffered insomnia. To make a long story short, while no one in my family would admit it, because they didn't want the step-father to feel any pressure, they denied the reality that I had serious psychological problems and I had to live with those problems for over 15 years before I received the kind of help I needed. Most of this occured during Reagan's 80s, when marijuana-users were being treated like dangerous criminals. Marijuana actually helped me with my problem, but because it was impossible to get, at least in my corner of the continent, I made the mistake of abusing alcohol, just like my step-father, and after 10 years, I developed an ulcer to add to my problems. This because marijuana was demonized while alcohol was given a right of passage and immunity to prosecution. To hell with alcohol and the skumbags that demonize marijuana. To hell with them all.
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Comment #154 posted by GreenJoy on October 17, 2005 at 07:00:06 PT
E Johnson Comment 120
 The sun rises and sets every day. It has total credibity. Nothing must be proven. It's truth is.... self evident.               GJ 
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Comment #153 posted by FoM on October 17, 2005 at 06:38:02 PT
Celaya
I wish the campaign success. Voting isn't something that many people believe will make a difference so by keeping it simple and straight forward would help many people say hey I see this issue and will vote. The average person is more concerned with getting by day by day then trying to figure out what something means. 
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Comment #152 posted by OverwhelmSam on October 17, 2005 at 05:10:09 PT
E Johnson
EJ, I can tell that you are emotionally charged about the domestic violence issue. If I've offeded you, I apologize.However, I still generally believe that alcohol induces violence, and marijuana reduces violence, and legalizing marijuana would reduce domestic violence. It's not an absolute belief, and there are always going to be exceptions. Some people have serious mental problems, which can't be helped by any drug, that lead them to commit acts of violence, and violent criminals should be prosecuted regardless of the drugs they take.As far as the ads are concerned, I think most here give the voting public too much credit. The average voter in Denver will probably think they're voting on a measure to reduce family violence, which in a way, they are, whether out of a sense of civic duty or guilt, makes no difference as long as the end result is the same - fewer prosecutions of responsible adults for marijuana use, and fewer incidents of domestic violence.Dennis
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Comment #151 posted by Celaya on October 16, 2005 at 23:15:49 PT
FoM
I understand how so many have become disillusioned with the voting process. The last two presidential elections were almost enough to make me pull a Jeremiah Johnson.But the formula that Change The Climate uses is very close to the pet project I've always said I would do if I had the money.That is, to buy a billboard in a selected city, and put on it the graphic message: [picture of a marijuana leaf] "is less harmful than" [picture of a mug of beer]I bet the ensuing controversy would spread far beyond the city limits. 8^) 
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Comment #150 posted by FoM on October 16, 2005 at 22:32:14 PT
Celaya
Sure it could work that way but it could work the way I said too. You and I have done this before and I always enjoyed our back and forth comments. I am not a political person and won't vote except if I feel it is necessary. I believe there are many people like me. At least where I live no one votes and if they do it is for someone for president and that's about all.
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Comment #149 posted by Celaya on October 16, 2005 at 22:27:19 PT
FoM
I see your point, but I think 
afterburner's 
got it right. The flash of the billboard message is just enough to get people thinking and becoming informed.
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Comment #148 posted by FoM on October 16, 2005 at 22:10:59 PT
Celaya
I understand what you mean. I hope you understand how I look at the billboard from my way of seeing it. Remember I'm just a person who goes to vote for a person and votes on issues too. I'm trying to be an average uninformed voter to make my point.
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Comment #147 posted by afterburner on October 16, 2005 at 22:07:19 PT
Zoom Zoom
At first, I had no idea what was being sold, but the jingle stayed in my mind. Later, more details were added to explain what 'zoom zoom' referred to. Perhaps, the billboard is meant to pique peoples curiosity. To get them to think about our issue and to become informed voters.
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Comment #146 posted by Celaya on October 16, 2005 at 22:03:31 PT
FoM
Okay. This one looks pretty clear from the article. And I am a long-time admirer of Change The Climate. I feel pretty safe backing any issue they do.
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Comment #145 posted by FoM on October 16, 2005 at 21:53:35 PT
One More Comment
When I think about an issue like this I look at it like I am not up on much of anything. I'm just a normal everyday voter going to vote for someone and would look at other issues to vote on. I have only voted twice but last year I passed on things that I didn't know if my vote would help or hurt. I just didn't vote.
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Comment #144 posted by GreenJoy on October 16, 2005 at 21:46:37 PT
Outrigging
 I just don't think that the issue of cannabis should be attached to other issues with so many variables. It strays from the core problem we have and convolutes the discourse.
              GJ
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Comment #143 posted by FoM on October 16, 2005 at 21:33:56 PT

Celaya
If I voted on what the billboard says and didn't know what the Initiative said like the way most people are that vote I could be voting to stick pins in a persons eyes to punish them. That's far fetched but I hope you see my point.
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Comment #142 posted by FoM on October 16, 2005 at 21:28:49 PT

Celaya
If I saw a billboard and that was all I saw I wouldn't get it and would pass on voting. From the article: Nowhere is there a mention that Initiative 100's passage would amend Denver law to make it legal for adults to possess 1 ounce or less of marijuana.
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Comment #141 posted by Celaya on October 16, 2005 at 21:21:28 PT

FoM
I haven't studied that particular initiative. I was just going by the few details given of it in the article.
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Comment #140 posted by FoM on October 16, 2005 at 21:00:11 PT

Celaya 
If it was clear like you said of course I would vote.
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Comment #139 posted by FoM on October 16, 2005 at 20:57:49 PT

Celaya
No I wouldn't if it didn't feel right to me. I don't get this so if I don't get something I don't form an opinion.
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Comment #138 posted by Celaya on October 16, 2005 at 20:53:12 PT

FoM
You wouldn't vote for an initiative that would amend your city's law to make it legal for adults to possess 1 ounce or less of marijuana? 
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Comment #137 posted by FoM on October 16, 2005 at 20:25:32 PT

I Finally Made Up My Mind
Since I look at drug issues everyday I thought I should say how I feel about this. If it was in my state I wouldn't vote on the issue at all. I'd skip it. I saw an initiative in Nevada a year or so ago that I wouldn't have voted on either. I turn and walk away. If something doesn't make sense to me after some time looking at an issue I won't act on it. That's just me. I don't pay attention to hard drug issues either. I can't come to grips with an answer so I have decided not to even read anymore about drug issues. Somethings just aren't right for everyone and that should be fine. That's what makes us individuals that have been shaped by our own life's experience and we must be true to ourselves. Most times I'm afraid to say anything negative about hard drug issues because people get mad and I just keep quiet and go my own way. I have learned to tune out.
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Comment #136 posted by Celaya on October 16, 2005 at 19:58:50 PT

Truth vs political intent
E Johnson"if one ad in your campaign is perceived by voters in a way other than you intended -- cut your losses and focus on the campaign ads that don't confuse people and cause disagreements even among people on your own side."We don't know how it's perceived by voters. This is, apparently, the reaction of one women's org. What if this particular group is dominated by prohibitionists? Or what if the journalist is a prohibitionist or just chose to take another cheap shot at the cannabis culture?  All these kinds of questions must be answered before deciding to scrap a campaign that already has considerable investment. 
"If an ad causes more controversy than it's worth, then dump it..."As has been stated, Change the Climate utilizes controversy. Something's got to get the public off the dime and into the discussion. 700,000 lives are being destroyed (or at least severely diminished) every year. And that's just one of the horrible effects of marijuana prohibition. The country cannot afford this gigantic, monstrous fraud/persecution any longer."it's not provably true to assert that legalizing marijuana would have any impact on domestic violence."But it is provably true that alcohol exacerbates violence and is empirically true that violence is reduced when alcohol is removed from equivalent social situations. "For one thing, legalizing marijuana is not going to make serious drinkers give up drinking."I disagree. I know several folks who have quit the alcohol habit with the aid of marijuana. Who knows how many folks are on the tipping point of making that decision and would be moved to do so with marijuana legalization?  I believe the numbers would be astounding. People are getting more health conscious all the time. That is apparently why alcohol brewers have lobbied so hard against marijuana legalization.GreenJoy"This add ultimately does us no favor...Are we playing the voter?"Again. I don't think we know that. We have a questionable reaction from a women's org and a questionable slant from a newspaper. That's it. I don't see it as playing the voter. It's bringing the issue of the comparison of alcohol and marijuana with solid data about the respective drugs in relation to violence. This is the way campaigns should work - by providing real information to the voters instead of through cynical manipulations and lies as is so often the case.
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Comment #135 posted by Hope on October 16, 2005 at 17:53:51 PT

I am
so sad for him. It's no fun facing your worst fears...but it may be...like you said...easier than dreading them, most of the time. Sometimes...as you well know...it's worse than imagined. I'm hopeful that it's not going to be that way for Steve.Dang.
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Comment #134 posted by Hope on October 16, 2005 at 17:45:23 PT

I'm goin down to New Orlens....
and getting Steve a "mojo hand". Bless his heart. He needs everything going for him he can have.Listening to Muddy Waters. 
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Comment #133 posted by FoM on October 16, 2005 at 17:38:55 PT

Hope
I believe Steve is very intelligent. I think when he can channel it without fear he will do really important things. It's sad getting stuck in life. We all have but it doesn't make it easy.
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Comment #132 posted by Hope on October 16, 2005 at 17:33:46 PT

FoM
That's true.
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Comment #131 posted by FoM on October 16, 2005 at 17:30:33 PT

Hope
About Steve. One thing I learned about when I couldn't face my future is there's no way to avoid it. I think that the fear of what terrifies us is worse then the actual issue. Steve is back home now and he will have a rough road but the fear of being sent back is over now. That's a big hurdle.
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Comment #130 posted by Hope on October 16, 2005 at 17:26:32 PT

Either Walters wanted him
or some underling wanted to present him to Walters, I suspect. Steve, I believe has done his best to try and do what's right, yet stay out of their evil clutches. Yes...I said, "Evil". Why else would anyone want to punish him like they're doing for what he did to offend them?They want the other Steve, too.
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Comment #129 posted by Hope on October 16, 2005 at 17:20:57 PT

I'm with you, FoM
about Steve. I feel less worried. Though I know it's hard. I know he will be as strong as he can be...maybe even stronger than he has ever imagined. Steve has been through so much.

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Comment #128 posted by Hope on October 16, 2005 at 17:16:47 PT

Piece of My Heart
I love that song. I was playing that song just the other day. My husband called from the road and said our granddaughter...who was with me, needed to listen to Janis Joplin. She really poured her heart...her whole being into her performances.I like that she's remembered a lot, like Elvis and Jimi Hendrix. I think she would too, if she knew it.I've seen some heartfelt renditions of that song. Mellisa's sounds like it was a wonder to behold.
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Comment #127 posted by Hope on October 16, 2005 at 16:32:39 PT

Now that's funny, FoM
You sound like Gracie Allen.
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Comment #126 posted by FoM on October 16, 2005 at 16:21:28 PT

Hope
It's on Dateline NBC. It should be in Texas in a couple hours. Whatever time Dateline comes on it will be on.
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Comment #125 posted by FoM on October 16, 2005 at 16:20:02 PT

Vaporizer
She said she was smoking a lot and switched to a Vaporizer! Got thru it with no PILLS! Just Cannabis! Wow!
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Comment #124 posted by Hope on October 16, 2005 at 16:19:14 PT

Is it something 
being said on TV? Report to us when it's over.
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Comment #123 posted by FoM on October 16, 2005 at 16:17:29 PT

The First 18 Minutes!
Don't miss it. They showed a little of her singing Piece of My Heart from the Grammys. I saw it live when she came on bald and all and belted out that song. She brought the house down.
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Comment #122 posted by Hope on October 16, 2005 at 16:17:14 PT

Oh man...
I'm about to cry...nearly and I'm not sure why.
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Comment #121 posted by FoM on October 16, 2005 at 16:12:34 PT

Thank You Melissa
She now is a vocal activist for Medicinal Marijuana! It made me cry.Hope I am a very shy person. I'm a wall flower type. LOL!
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Comment #120 posted by E_Johnson on October 16, 2005 at 16:06:19 PT

But GreenJoy we don't know that it is true
"Credibility comes from being true."Credibility comes from defending the things that you can really prove to people are true.Domestic violence is a complicated phenomenon that depends on culture and environment and personality. Yes alcohol is frequently involved, but it's not provably true to assert that legalizing marijuana would have any impact on domestic violence.For one thing, legalizing marijuana is not going to make serious drinkers give up drinking. I already tried getting my sister to switch from alcohol to medicinal marijuana and that was a huge disaster. People who like to drink and then hit someone probably are NOT going to stop this behavior if the legal status of marijuana is changed.So the ad isn't even expressing some deep truth about pot and alcohol. The ad is just an emotional appeal making a really promise to voters that marijuana legalization can't actually fulfill.Hence this ad is not worth defending with the kind of gusto we normally employ to defend the facts about marijuana that really are provably true.
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Comment #119 posted by Hope on October 16, 2005 at 16:01:54 PT

Shy...that's funny.
Spam and whatever? I don't blame you. I'm shy about putting my address in anywhere.
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Comment #118 posted by Hope on October 16, 2005 at 16:00:06 PT

Or Melissa..
or both, or all four.The networks?
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Comment #117 posted by FoM on October 16, 2005 at 15:59:30 PT

Hope
I'm very shy about sending e-mails but I know that Nicholas reads the site and as we know he is very gutsy! LOL!
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Comment #116 posted by FoM on October 16, 2005 at 15:58:08 PT

The Introduction To Melissa
Was just great! Don't miss it!
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Comment #115 posted by Hope on October 16, 2005 at 15:58:03 PT

Send Montel an e-mail
while you're at it. 
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Comment #114 posted by Hope on October 16, 2005 at 15:57:02 PT

FoM
Drop them an e-mail...while the thought is fresh.
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Comment #113 posted by Hope on October 16, 2005 at 15:55:59 PT

If controversy was what they were after,
they sure got it.
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Comment #112 posted by FoM on October 16, 2005 at 15:55:14 PT

Hope
I'm glad you liked the idea. Now if someone who has clout could try to make it happen like MPP or NORML that would be great.
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Comment #111 posted by riptide on October 16, 2005 at 15:48:22 PT

*SIGH*
While it is somewhat heartening to see that tactics like this can be used for our cause when the government and others have certainly done things like this in the past, I have to wonder if turnabout is fair play when considering all of the other more uninformed people out there.
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Comment #110 posted by Hope on October 16, 2005 at 15:44:17 PT

FoM comment #107
You're right.
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Comment #109 posted by Hope on October 16, 2005 at 15:42:57 PT

Montel and Melissa
It's a great idea.
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Comment #108 posted by observer on October 16, 2005 at 15:35:32 PT

on a limb
if one ad in your campaign is perceived by voters in a way other than you intended...But, won't it always be the case that a political ad will be perceived in as many different ways as there are perceivers? And won't it always be true that a political ad will be perceived by some voters in a way other than you intended? Does an effective political ad have to please everyone? Is it possible to please everyone? Should one even try? Am I an un-uncompassionate wife-beater-supporter sociopath meanie should I disagree with other political opinions? Even if those political opinons are held by highly esteemed victimhood groups? What if I think that the jailed victims of a rapacious government, jailed only for their use of a plant (like cannabis, say), can be just as much victims as those victimized by domestic violence? Have I thus committed a victimhood error? Am I asking the wrong questions, now? Evil, bad questions? I hope not! I'm sure glad we have a forum like this here cannabisnews.com, where we can go out on a limb. 
breaking pot news 24/7, rss, high-volume
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Comment #107 posted by FoM on October 16, 2005 at 15:16:32 PT

A Better Idea
If Dateline did a special and had Montel and Melissa as special guest and have a decent length so good points could be made. Forget a negative person to counter balance it. That just is parroting anymore and turns off both sides. 
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Comment #106 posted by FoM on October 16, 2005 at 15:13:16 PT

I Know What Would Be Helpful For Our Cause
If Montel Williams did a show and had Melissa Etheridge as a special guest. 
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Comment #105 posted by GreenJoy on October 16, 2005 at 14:55:15 PT

Playing
 NO. I play to win. I guess I'm just actually going back a ways. Sorry to jump the tracks. It ties in for me. 
 At one time there was quite a discussion here about everybody buckin up and cutting there hair and putting on suits etc. That's just disingenuos. And some who are very perceptive will see that and we may not get their vote. Credibility comes from being true. But I'll agree with you on this for sure. This add ultimately does us no favor and neither did Cheech and Chong. 
Perhaps the word "play" is not the best. Are we playing the voter? Playing for votes? If I become something I am not to change your impression of me am I "playing" you?   GJ
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Comment #104 posted by Hope on October 16, 2005 at 14:51:58 PT

E_Johnson
All in all, I don't think it will cost our side any votes that we would have had.
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Comment #103 posted by Hope on October 16, 2005 at 14:39:44 PT

E_Johnson
I see what you mean, now.
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Comment #102 posted by FoM on October 16, 2005 at 14:30:34 PT

GreenJoy
I like Irish expressions. I'm one quarter Irish.http://www.freedomtoexhale.com/irish.htm
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Comment #101 posted by E_Johnson on October 16, 2005 at 14:28:45 PT

GreenJoy so you don't campaign to win?
"But having read y'all for days and seeing both sides of the coin, I can't see myself ever being able to calculate and monitor every thought I voice based on whether it will offend or please a potential voter."It costs a huge amount of money to mount a campaign like this, and presumably the reason one spends all this money is to win. So presumably one should do things that will increase, rather than decrease, the chances of winning.We're not talking about "monitoring every thought" -- this is about one particular ad that is only one ad in many in a campaign.It's a no brainer to me -- if one ad in your campaign is perceived by voters in a way other than you intended -- cut your losses and focus on the campaign ads that don't confuse people and cause disagreements even among people on your own side.This is nothing close to "monitoring every thought".If an ad causes more controversy than it's worth, then dump it and focus on the ads that don't make the campaign workers have to focus on damage control.I can't understand why it isn't obvious in this case. The goal here is to WIN, not to defend some controversial assumption being made about domestic violence and marijuana.
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Comment #100 posted by GreenJoy on October 16, 2005 at 14:27:06 PT

FoM
 The line I began with is an Irish saying. Just a way to start. It seemed like a fight at times. Glad its all cool. My older brothers used to fight. I always found it very upsetting.                GJ
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Comment #99 posted by FoM on October 16, 2005 at 14:19:58 PT

GreenJoy
This isn't a private fight. I don't even think it is a fight. When CTC did other ads it got people stirred up. When things get stirred up it kicks us out of a comfort zone no matter which side of the issue we are on. 
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Comment #98 posted by E_Johnson on October 16, 2005 at 14:17:27 PT

Hope I mean the people in Denver who see this ad
People who see this ad and are exposed to this controversy might come to a negative conclusion about the people running the campaign. That's all I meant.They might conclude -- oh, those potheads who want the laws changed in their favor are a self-centered, uncaring crowd, because they refuse to listen to the concerns about this particular ad.If they do conclude that, then it would affect how they voted on this issue.But as I said, we won't know how this issue affects them until they have a chance to vote.
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Comment #97 posted by GreenJoy on October 16, 2005 at 14:16:10 PT

Is this a private fight...
 or can anyone join in? I am certainly not the sharpest knife in this drawer. But having read y'all for days and seeing both sides of the coin, I can't see myself ever being able to calculate and monitor every thought I voice based on whether it will offend or please a potential voter. Celaya is right. The bottom line is the truth. I'll be myself and think as I please. 
Sadly, some people are veritable lemmings. The truth is that the prohibition of cannabis is 2 faced. The truth is...no government has the right to control how I choose to deal with my own health or how I choose to "pursue" happiness.            GJ
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Comment #96 posted by FoM on October 16, 2005 at 14:15:55 PT

About Steve
I am ok now about Steve and don't have that terrible burden. It lifted because he got medical help. Steve's situation could make his life even better on down the road I believe. It really is hard in the middle of a bad time to realize things will get better but they always do. We grow and learn that way.
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Comment #95 posted by Hope on October 16, 2005 at 14:09:45 PT

Jail Prison Probation Parole
Those things aren't "fun".
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Comment #94 posted by Hope on October 16, 2005 at 14:08:30 PT

Yes, FoM.
I am happy...I know I'm blessed...I'm content.But this that we are trying to do is too dripping with real blood and horror to be fun.I guess I'm still fuming about what they said.Got to shake it off.
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Comment #93 posted by Hope on October 16, 2005 at 14:06:15 PT

It's been littered with puking, and dying,
and sickness, and disease.It's been one insult after another. It's being shunned. It's being laughed at...not with.It's been laced with beatings and murders and graft of all kinds. It's seeing the drug war shoot complete innocents, and not so complete innocents, out of the sky. Mow old ladies down in their sick beds, old men in their living rooms and bedrooms. Doing everything possible to degrade and disgrace them. Making it easier for young men to go to prison than to school.
 
...and they still will not change...still will not back up and look at what they're doing.What's that about?
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Comment #92 posted by FoM on October 16, 2005 at 14:01:35 PT

Fun
Nothing is really fun when it comes to trying to get these laws change concerning Cannabis but I believe that we should strive to be happy. People can be happy and hopeful in the midst of a disaster. It's all in how we perceive what surrounds us. Being hopeful makes others hopeful and then we don't get defeated and say what's the use. That's why I feel the way I do.
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Comment #91 posted by Hope on October 16, 2005 at 13:58:48 PT

This is one of those rough or sore spots.
It's worse for some than for others. We have to not get lost in it. We have to keep going.
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Comment #90 posted by FoM on October 16, 2005 at 13:57:56 PT

 Melissa Etheridge 
For me I have always believed that we need celebrities to speak up and then have it on TV like tonight. Also like Weeds. It shows so much and many people particularly watch Dateline. That's how to take it to the people in my opinion. 
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Comment #89 posted by Hope on October 16, 2005 at 13:57:09 PT

It's been a road littered
with misery and pain and heartache.Sorrow, grief, disappointment.No. It isn't "fun".
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Comment #88 posted by Hope on October 16, 2005 at 13:55:33 PT

Somewhere the other day,
someone suggested that this...our efforts, might be "fun". Sometimes we laugh and joke. But it's never been fun. It's something that has to be done. It's been a long slow hard road and we aren't there yet.
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Comment #87 posted by Hope on October 16, 2005 at 13:53:38 PT

E_Johnson
There's been a lot of hard spots in this for all of us. 
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Comment #86 posted by Hope on October 16, 2005 at 13:51:55 PT

Afterburner
What you said is so true. 
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Comment #85 posted by Hope on October 16, 2005 at 13:48:52 PT

CannabisNews? The people here?
"...the impression that the marijuana movement is filled with uncaring people."Surely not, EJ. 
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Comment #84 posted by afterburner on October 16, 2005 at 13:43:55 PT

I Agree
I agree with E_J that we must build trust. I agree with global_warming that some people are just fed up with being abused and will say what they want. I agree with observer that Change the Climate strives for and thrives on in-your-face controversy. This may cause some to be turned off, but many people do not even have a stand on cannabis regulation or medical cannabis. Many 'pot' smokers do not even know the names of cannabis activists or even medical cannabis patients like Steve Tuck. Thus, the government and the media (by suppressing coverage to concentrate on movie stars, political scandals and orange alerts) can abuse the sick with impunity, cover it up, and lie about it. Thereby, many people are confused, distracted, and ignorant of our issue whatsoever! We cannot 'change the climate' if the majority of the public is apathetic or misinformed.As to the meaning behind the message of the billboards: cannabis may not cure a violent alcoholic instantly (look at James Roszko, his cannabis patch did not stop him from killing 4 Mounties). However, cannabis use may offer a night of peace once in a while in a terrorized family. I know several violent alcoholics, who often prefer cannabis. Some have even sworn off the drink in favor of the more peaceful cannabis experience. They still carry an abundance of anger, but they can deal with it more safely at times. This is no substitute for therapy, but in a country without health care for many, how many people get the chance for mental/psychological therapy?I also agree with Hope and global_warming that pictures of storm troopers and imprisoning peaceful cannabis folk would be more on target to generate sympathy.
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Comment #83 posted by Celaya on October 16, 2005 at 13:42:54 PT

Truth can only help
The principle weapon marijuana reform has is the truth. Change the Climate is perhaps the most effective organization dedicated to getting out the truth.Perhaps some here will recall the amazement held by the soccer world when the Euro Cup was held in Amsterdam in 2000. For the first time ever, the soccer competition was not characterized by the tremendous violence among fans.It was probably for this reason, that Portugal announced it would not pursue marijuana smokers when the tournament was held there recently.One of the biggest problems the Rainbow Family has experienced is when groups of alcohol fans insist on coming and indulging at Rainbow gatherings. It almost always results in violence, which is something that, otherwise, never happens at the gatherings.Even various studies have pointed to this grand difference between alcohol and marijuana. I cannot imagine that if the whole group of domestic abusers were to switch from alcohol to marijuana, that there would not be a big reduction in domestic violence.Sounds like the women's advocacy organizations either don't want their thunder stolen or they think having 'disgraceful' marijuana reformers associated with their cause is just too shameful. Why else would they deny the role alcohol plays in domestic violence?There is truth here that could be saving lives. I fail to see the harm of these ads.
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Comment #82 posted by global_warming on October 16, 2005 at 12:47:19 PT

Sorry
I would much rather talk about colorful flowers, beautiful women and handsome men, children playing in innocence, some green pasture, that is beyond the next hill.
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Comment #81 posted by global_warming on October 16, 2005 at 12:36:15 PT

EJ please
There is no movementIt is just us, we those peopleIn our facesDomestic ViolenceIs a sicknessAbuse is a sicknessThere is no pillThat cures realityMay we all try to notMake a bad situation worseWalking with yougw
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Comment #80 posted by E_Johnson on October 16, 2005 at 12:31:47 PT

Anyway the proof will be in the pudding
Hopefully the shelters won't have women coming out in droves to vote against the measure. Hopefully voters on the fence won't now have the impression that the marijuana movement is filled with uncaring people who refuse to be accountable for exploiting battered women for their campaign.Hopefully, the damaged feelings caused by stonewalling won't defeat the measure.The object here was not to defend the idea that legalizing pot would end domestic violence, the object here was to win the sympathies of voters, and I guess we won't know until the election how much damage this ad has done to those prospects.
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Comment #79 posted by E_Johnson on October 16, 2005 at 12:23:12 PT

It happens to be true global warming
""Lots of skeezy horrible people smoke pot. Meth addicts who abuse their children smoke pot to come down from a run. Alcoholics who beat their partners bloody smoke pot too."This paragraph so typifies the thinking of the anti's who blindly catagorize and punish cannabists."I am a cannabis user and my thinking is not at all typical of theirs and I take enormous offence at this slap of yours, especially given all time I've given to this movement.You have some idealistic view of marijuana users but anyone can smoke pot who can get pot. It's just as relaxing to good people as it is to slimy skeezes.I hate to keep brinnging up my sister but she's one person I wish would stop smoking pot, because she's one of those people who give marijuana a bad name.There are lots of people who do give marijuana a bad name.Mentioning this fact is not at all typifying any kind of anti thinking.Geez you make me feel like I'm in the Soviet Union and I'm criticizing socialism!!!!This is surreal. The supposedly anti-PC crowd gets all PC when a few inconvenient facts come up that fly in the face of their idealistic ideology.
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Comment #78 posted by FoM on October 16, 2005 at 11:43:59 PT

global_warming 
Very soothing music. I have listened to music like this before. I'm listening to it right now. It's very pleasant.
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Comment #77 posted by global_warming on October 16, 2005 at 11:30:03 PT

Music
There is a style of music that I have not seen discussed here, it is called zero-beat,http://bluemars.org/cryosleep.phpMost people who underwent cryosleep have reported that the mind seems to naturally retreat into a place of infinite tranquility, where the experience of Time itself is distorted in a subtle way.Although there is no trace of conscious activity in the brain of sleepers, it appears that Experience itself never ceases, creating atemporals bubbles of memories of transcendental calm,"..Music is a high, for now it is legal and accepatable to enjoy. I worry about that time and place in our world, where music must be sanctioned by the rich and powerful and those that only know how to use the legal/business systemSome of my finest moments were found in this place.Hope, you are all well,Wondering how herb-doc is doing,Guess he is not near a terminal,
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Comment #76 posted by Hope on October 16, 2005 at 11:16:45 PT

I'm glad.
Global Warming.
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Comment #75 posted by global_warming on October 16, 2005 at 11:08:52 PT

That is good
Hope
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Comment #74 posted by Hope on October 16, 2005 at 11:02:10 PT

Global Warming
Is that good or is that bad?
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Comment #73 posted by Hope on October 16, 2005 at 11:01:17 PT

Place and setting...
and the "company you keep" can mean a lot to an "experience".I don't like that real life scary stuff...at all!
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Comment #72 posted by global_warming on October 16, 2005 at 10:59:23 PT

You bring tears to my eyes
Hope
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Comment #71 posted by Hope on October 16, 2005 at 10:59:22 PT

Just thought of something that would 
make me paranoid.Smoking with OJ.
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Comment #70 posted by Hope on October 16, 2005 at 10:55:37 PT

Pot can give you tools...
but it just doesn't "change" a person or their personality into someone else overnight. That would be freaky, too, and it is one of the fears that a lot of the people who really don't know anything about marijuana, fear. They also fear paranoia. They might be prone to it and they might have a gut hollowing paranoia experience. They'll survive it of course...if they did. But it's too dang scary for some people to contemplate. It changes you in the sense that any life experience changes you. But that is all. You changed the first time you tasted something you liked. But when you use marijuana, you don't leave your body and something else takes over. That is one of some people's fears. Yeah...I know...it's goofy. But I think that's the way it is. I've had people try to explain that fear to me. You grow. You learn. Pot or not...or not.In my fear of spiders, I once realized, and it took me forever to realize this, but I realized I was living under the impression that they had super fantastic...almost supernatural powers. Yes. I know that's silly. But I didn't at one time. Not at all. Accusations of being overly fearful flew right over my head. I thought, "You crazy people! You just don't know what those things can do!", when confronted with rationality up until that quiet realization moment.Then I knew I was wrong and a lot of why.
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Comment #69 posted by global_warming on October 16, 2005 at 10:35:21 PT

re:comment 62
"Lots of skeezy horrible people smoke pot. Meth addicts who abuse their children smoke pot to come down from a run. Alcoholics who beat their partners bloody smoke pot too."This paragraph so typifies the thinking of the anti's who blindly catagorize and punish cannabists.I further add the title of this article, " Pot Backers Won't Halt Domestic Violence Ads" as if people who smoke pot are advocating domestic violence,..there are also violent women, violence in general seems to be controlled by the male population, pity, too much violence, anger and confusion.Domestic violence is a disease that should not be confused with cannabis use or alcohol, the roots which might be explored further in male/female participation in this world.Yup we are all here right now and the OJ's and his minions may have succeeded Justice, if it is any comfort to those abused, the victors take their spoils with them to their graves and stink of their mulch in their godless universe.
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Comment #68 posted by FoM on October 16, 2005 at 09:38:38 PT

I Found The Best Weeds Clip
This was in the final show when Andy tells Doug that he has to go to Iraq and the Laura Bush Pot comment. This is great if you haven't seen it before.http://movies.crooksandliars.com/Weedsclip_0002.wmv
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Comment #67 posted by Hope on October 16, 2005 at 09:29:05 PT

Kind of like "seeing the light" for Bush.
He may not have seen "the light" when it was shining right in his face, but he saw it clearly enough when it was reflected off his wife.Most people know "the light", aka, "the truth", when they see it...straight on or reflected.
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Comment #66 posted by goneposthole on October 16, 2005 at 08:55:19 PT

Too much drinking and drugging requires action
Here is how Laura Bush acted: It was actually his wife who gave Bush the wake-up call. "Laura is sharp and tough," says Robert McCleskey. "The librarian stuff might be overdone." McCleskey, a friend of Laura's since childhood, is more definitive in describing her ultimatum. "Laura explained it to him in a way he would understand it, and he quit drinking." Did that mean his wife threatened to leave him if he didn't stop drinking? he was asked. "That's right."http://gailsheehy.com/Politics/polimain_bush3.htmlAct or react.
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Comment #65 posted by FoM on October 16, 2005 at 08:39:20 PT

That's Good Hope
A horse's ass that's just smoked pot is still a horse's ass...This guy got angry with my husband in the middle of a very big truck stop parking lot about some freight that he wanted but was given to my husband. He got in my husband's face and was almost nose to nose and screaming and spitting all over him. Later on the guys were eating in the restaurant and my husband came in and sat down next to him with the other guys and he put his arm around him and said hey I still love you man. Everyone but him laughed.
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Comment #64 posted by Hope on October 16, 2005 at 08:31:56 PT

Generally, but not always, perhaps....
A horse's ass that's just smoked pot is still a horse's ass...maybe mollified a bit for the moment...but still a horse's ass. If he is given to thought at all...which they usually aren't...he might see himself more clearly at the moment and try to straighten up a bit...hopefully...but he might just admire what a horse's ass he is.But...and this is important...no matter who is smoking it...that possession and use shouldn't be their "crime". Their "crime" should only be the abusive or destructive actions they take...no matter what they might be "under the influence" of...the abuse of people is the crime...not the consumption or possession of the herb, cannabis.
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Comment #63 posted by FoM on October 16, 2005 at 08:26:36 PT

I See What You Mean EJ
I have known one person that was really scary and violent that only smoked pot. He just has a very aggressive disposition. He never drank alcohol either. I see what you mean.
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Comment #62 posted by E_Johnson on October 16, 2005 at 08:21:49 PT

Crawling out on a limb here
"I didn't say Change the Climate was lying, it's true the marijuana reduces or eliminates family violence and violence in general.The fact is that there are about 25 million Americans that use marijuana at least occassionally, and you hardley ever hear anything about them except for a possession charge. Compare and contrast with alcohol."The problem is, plenty of wife beaters smoke pot. O.J. Simpson smoked pot.People didn't talk about OJ's drug use much because the murders he committed were so horrible.But now millions of Americans know that O.J. handed out pot at the party he held to celebrate getting away with murdering his wife and the poor shlub who tried to save her.Linda Lovelace -- the star of Deep Throat -- she wrote in her autobiography that her boyfriend was a pot dealer who beat and raped her and fored her to work in porn.Lots of skeezy horrible people smoke pot. Meth addicts who abuse their children smoke pot to come down from a run. Alcoholics who beat their partners bloody smoke pot too.My sister lived with an alcoholic who beat her, and they both liked to smoke pot, they stole it from his brother who was a medical user who lived on disability.I think you have a stereotype in mind that isn't really true. You want it to be true, but it's not actually true. The truth about domestic violence is much more complicated.
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Comment #61 posted by OverwhelmSam on October 16, 2005 at 05:20:49 PT

Hope
I didn't say Change the Climate was lying, it's true the marijuana reduces or eliminates family violence and violence in general. I meant the government propoganda about marijuana use is all lies. You know, shooting your best friend, running over a little girl at Jack in the Box, etc... The fact is that there are about 25 million Americans that use marijuana at least occassionally, and you hardley ever hear anything about them except for a possession charge. Compare and contrast with alcohol.Overwhelm Uncle SamDennis
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Comment #60 posted by Hope on October 15, 2005 at 18:55:21 PT

" they're the ones who started with the lies."
Sam, what Change the Climate is saying isn't a lie like the government and prohibitionist lies we have had to endure. It's not a lie at all. And they are saying "reduce" family violence and they're not saying that it is the whole answer and will cure the problem. It's probably true that it will in fact "reduce" violence. It's just so delicate a situation to bring our cause up in and it seems like it could anger some people more than add to their rationality on the matter of cannabis. I do hope the measure passes and I do hope that it will make people think about family violence and controling it more...especially the batterers. Maybe they will see some hope in it and think about it. That would be good.No, I don't think it's a lie. It just appears at first glance to over simplify a problem that's not simple at all and very, very painful to some people. No one who's prone to violence against his or her family should touch alcohol, that's for sure. I hope it works out for good all the way around.
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Comment #59 posted by FoM on October 15, 2005 at 18:35:48 PT

Just a Comment
We just watched a movie called Canadian Bacon. It was so funny. If you haven't seen this movie it's well worth watching. It helped lift some of the tension of today. I hope everyone has a nice night and good day tomorrow.
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Comment #58 posted by goneposthole on October 15, 2005 at 17:31:18 PT

Jenna Bush is supposedly a cannabis user, too
According to the National Perspirer, she's been toking at parties with friends.http://www.salon.com/politics/feature/2001/03/23/jenna_bush/"... spend it on some real good grass... disappearing oh so fast..." - Jimmy Buffet
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Comment #57 posted by mayan on October 15, 2005 at 17:04:58 PT

Comparison
If the ads get folks talking and making the comparison between alcohol and weed then that will only work to our advantage. Sure, some folks will take offense but some will become enlightened. Some folks take offense at what we're doing here in the first place! Maybe Change the Climate is hoping the ads get yanked so they can sue again? They have a track record of knowing what they are doing. Change the Climate!
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Comment #56 posted by OverwhelmSam on October 15, 2005 at 16:54:52 PT

And Just A Note
Change the Climate is using the same tactics the government has been using for decades. Now that the tables are turned with the truth, they cry foul and that's not fair, when in fact, they're the ones who started with the lies.
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Comment #55 posted by OverwhelmSam on October 15, 2005 at 16:45:24 PT

Well, The Bottom Line Is...
Alcohol induces domestic violence and marijuana reduces domestic violence, period.Given a choice of legalization, which would you choose for Society? Marijuana of course!
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Comment #54 posted by E_Johnson on October 15, 2005 at 16:13:53 PT

runderwo I joined the Compassion movement
I never joined any movement that is against Compassion.Compassion makes no sense when it's confined to one group. YOu can't say -- I want compassion -- if you don't have any to give.I'm not part of any movement that believes compassion is some weak PC touchy feely thing.And I'd feel kind of ripped off if this movement wasn't what I was led to believe it was in the first place. 
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Comment #53 posted by global_warming on October 15, 2005 at 15:53:58 PT

My Mother
Was a simple womenWho always providedWarm clothing on those cold morningsThis chill is but this new dayThis morning that will be warmedAs the new day brings sunlightTwinklings that fill our worldviewsIts business as usualWe can end this madnessEnd this prohibition Cannabis may be associted with the devilThe Devil is the inheritor For all this sufferingThose that are in legionce with That demonic streamAlways have that momentTo reach through that vailPenetrate the flesh and cloakThis is a good timeTo put a hand outA mercifu; hand
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Comment #52 posted by Hope on October 15, 2005 at 15:32:36 PT

Maddening. Maddening. Maddening.
http://www.mapinc.org/newscfdp/v05/n1618/a02.html
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Comment #51 posted by Hope on October 15, 2005 at 15:22:35 PT

Working it out...
can mean agreeing to disagree. If we all agreed all the time on absolutely everything...that would just be weird.
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Comment #50 posted by FoM on October 15, 2005 at 15:22:33 PT

Hope 
I don't think anyone will leave. People are having a really serious discussion. 
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Comment #49 posted by Hope on October 15, 2005 at 15:20:15 PT

If you don't get lost in the archives...
which I do when I go to wandering about this site, you will see, as I have that they, along with Kaptinemo and others were some of the very first posters here.I don't believe either one of them would leave us any more than they would desert their own brothers and sisters. And we already know how EJ has stood by her sister through many a hard time.At least...that's what I hope.
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Comment #48 posted by E_Johnson on October 15, 2005 at 15:16:51 PT

You just better hope they don't read the Enquirer
It's weak and foolish to send troops out to defend a position that is, in fact, indefensible.It's a waste of money too.
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Comment #47 posted by Hope on October 15, 2005 at 15:14:50 PT

E_Johnson and Observer have both been 
around here longer than most of us and I expect...I certainly hope, that they will stay here. We need them both. They are "brother" and "sister" in the same movement, having a difference. I know they can work it out. They're both too smart not to.
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Comment #46 posted by global_warming on October 15, 2005 at 15:08:29 PT

END CANNABIS PROHIBITION NOW!
This is the timeTo reach that hand of compassionInto that mother loving Night
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Comment #45 posted by runderwo on October 15, 2005 at 15:06:51 PT

hey EJ
Some people have very strange ideas about how to run the government. Some of these ideas are provably wrong. The discussion should be about whose ideas are better, not who is a better person. I have not noticed observer claiming that he is a better person than anyone else, only that he thinks he has the correct ideas. I have done the same. And if the motive behind those ideas is to minimize harms to other people, how is that arrogant? On the contrary, it is the sign of a truly compassionate person.Also, the role of emotion in politics is overrated. At the core, you have limited resources. You can print money to finance social programs if you want, but that doesn't change the amount of resources that are available. Fiscal responsibility in government is important so that we ourselves have enough money left to direct towards compassionate causes. Attempts by people to be compassionate to others through government force both reduces freedom, spends the money inefficiently, and moves the economy towards bankruptcy. That's not a heartless position to me. Nor is it an idealist position - certainly everyone wishes government were a more noble force. It's a position of fact. Private, voluntary, and competitive charity is more efficient and soulful than charity mandated through government force. Now whether you think voluntary charity can get it done or not in this country is a matter of opinion. But there is no reason to harbor illusions; putting the government in charge of people's choices is a regressive idea, so we should rightly avoid embracing it whenever we can.I am not a heartless person because I think charitable interests are best served outside of government. Frankly, I would resent being accused as being heartless, but I'm aware that most people have odd ideas about what government is, so any attempt to move charity outside of the realm of government is perceived as an attack on charity itself.Being reasonable doesn't require being logical, and being logical doesn't mean you are necessarily reasonable. What matters is considering other people's perspectives. And I believe I do that, as well as the fellow you have been needling. Why persist?
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Comment #44 posted by Toker00 on October 15, 2005 at 15:01:38 PT

runruff
Very good. Very nice. Enjoyed it and passed one out to a friend. Another great tool for teaching. Thanks for your and your friends efforts. It's also nice to have a real world touch from a fellow activist. May the laws change before your start date. Wage peace on war. END CANNABIS PROHIBITION NOW! 
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Comment #43 posted by global_warming on October 15, 2005 at 14:50:29 PT

Get Down On The Floor
Make my day
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Comment #42 posted by E_Johnson on October 15, 2005 at 14:42:52 PT

And remember OJ lurks on the horizon
The last celebrity to be outed in the National Enquirer as a marijuana smoker was O.J. Simpson, who passed around weed to celebrate the ten year anniversary of getting away with domestic homicide.So that's a PR disaster waiting to happen. If the other side picks this up and uses it in the media, that's going to totally demolish the argument the legalization movement is trying to present.It's better to just drop the ads and apologize and show sensitivity.ASAP, before the other side uses OJ as their example of how marijuana users can be violent wife-killers too.
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Comment #41 posted by global_warming on October 15, 2005 at 14:37:54 PT

EJ_Please
Stop your attack on observer,He is not our enemy
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Comment #40 posted by E_Johnson on October 15, 2005 at 14:22:21 PT

Sociopaths aren't touchy feely at all
"Politically Correct weepy touchy-feely"So much for the myth of compassion!Sure, observer, go out and tell the voters:1. You're better than they are2. You have no empathy for them at all3. You think human emotions make people weak and inferiorThat's going to work really well. Sure, marijuana will be legalized tomorrow, if you can just get out there and deliver the truth.
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Comment #39 posted by global_warming on October 15, 2005 at 13:55:20 PT

Its Morning
Time to wake up,
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Comment #38 posted by global_warming on October 15, 2005 at 13:23:50 PT

What Happens when you get High?
AT 400 PM EDT, THE LEVEL OF THE METEDECONK RIVER NEAR LAKEWOOD WAS AT 7.3 FEET, WHICH CONSTITUTES MINOR FLOODING. THE LEVEL HAS BEEN SLOWLY FALLING, WITH SOME FLUCTUATIONS, SINCE REACHING ITS PEAK HEIGHT OF 9.6 FEET FRI MORNING. FLOOD STAGE IS 7.0 FEET & IT IS EXPECTED TO FALL BELOW FLOOD STAGE BY ABOUT 800 PM THIS EVENING. AND CONTINUE TO FALL SLOWLY OVERNIGHT. $$
..Seeing things differntly Understanding is what it is about,Though some may try to forget,Light that fills our mindsIlluminates every critter,I guess somebody has to writeA book about the high world,Atonement is a wordWhich connects science and religionWe can scratch the cloth
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Comment #37 posted by global_warming on October 15, 2005 at 12:54:53 PT

Silk Pot Plants
Maybe I can purchase a few of them,Put one in my little office,Offer one to some friend,Give one to a sick person,Don't worry, it won't kill you,There is growing evidence,That it might even have some health giving properties,You might forget to give a big tipFor that good rideThrough this lifeEnd this abominationCalled prohibitionKill the drug pusher
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Comment #36 posted by Hope on October 15, 2005 at 12:37:15 PT

"Paralysis isn't going to get us too far."
So true.
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Comment #35 posted by runruff on October 15, 2005 at 12:24:42 PT:

Toker00
You're welcome. Hope you like.Peace
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Comment #34 posted by Hope on October 15, 2005 at 12:21:23 PT

I really like your three R's, E_Johnson
Maybe we could add another R word... "Ready".We're "Right". We're "Responsible". We're "Respectful". We're "Ready" for a change for the better.
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Comment #33 posted by observer on October 15, 2005 at 12:17:52 PT

Kudos to Change the Climate!
A pro-pot group Friday rejected domestic violence advocates' demands to stop the Monday debut of three Denver billboards showing a battered woman and urging voters to reduce violence by passing a marijuana legalization measure.Change the Climate is doing great work, and this is another example. The controversy here will get the cause air time like nothing else can. So, the more Politically Correct weepy touchy-feely groups that denounce the facts presented as beyond the pale, may be the better. It is well known that alcohol is associated with violence, and pot has the opposite association. (Barring Anslinger's assertions.) In a calculated move, Change the Climate created a daring and controversial ad campaign. More power to them! I for one am glad that Change the Climate doesn't let anyone and everyone who may cry, "Hateful!," "They aren't respectful!," "That's not P.C.!," etc. stop them. Paralysis isn't going to get us too far. 
http://drugpolicycentral.com/bot/pot
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Comment #32 posted by Hope on October 15, 2005 at 12:16:28 PT

Maybe it's laughable...
and pathetic, even, the picture of a housewife...with a skillet in one hand and a rolling pin in the other, hands on hips, defying a SWAT team...but that's pretty much all we've got until our leaders wise up.
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Comment #31 posted by Hope on October 15, 2005 at 12:13:51 PT

Somebody has got to tell them they're wrong...
and keep telling them...even if it's just a couple of housewives fearing for their families, children, and neighbors. Somebody's got to do it.
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Comment #30 posted by FoM on October 15, 2005 at 12:08:42 PT

Hope
I never think of Swat Teams. I know what happens but I find that disturbing and I would get stuck being angry and then I'm back to square one again.
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Comment #29 posted by Hope on October 15, 2005 at 12:04:34 PT

A picture of a SWAT guy...
Helmet, high tech arms, jack boots, armor, and the rest of his accoutrements, screaming and cursing his way into a "wrong house" raid, might be a better picture of what we are up against and want to end. Pictures of gentle people behind bars might be fitting, too.Heck, pictures, of Gore, Clinton, the mayor of New York, Louis Armstrong, Rodney Dangerfield, and numerous others behind bars might be more effective than the route they've chosen.
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Comment #28 posted by FoM on October 15, 2005 at 12:04:04 PT

Trust
I said last night about people who have vacant eyes. I really liked that expression. When I see someone with vacant eyes I move on with my thoughts. A person must show an openness to something new and different. If I see that curiosity then I will talk.
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Comment #27 posted by global_warming on October 15, 2005 at 12:02:37 PT

Nicely Said EJ
"Some people think the only job we have to perform in this movement is proving we are right.But I say the second job we have to do is -- building trust.You can prove you're right all you want but there's no law that says voters have to vote for the side that has proven itself to be right.They're going to vote for the side they trust. "Maybe all those fried egg commercials that the dea and our government has been flashing before our eyes has something to do with this ad.Maybe you can lie to some of the people some of the time and get away with it, and maybe some of the time the people can just figure it out, as those lemmings or sheeple as they are some times called can actually see behind those blind advertisements and maybe they can see that there is a cannabis community that has been subjugated for too long, too many cannabists are in prisons, too many cannabist live in fear and suspicion, they are numbered in the millions, and they are getting stronger, maybe they have had enough and are reaching for every tool to communicate to the ones who perform this oppression upon the backs of peaceful cannabists.Not sure what percent of the human population in our world are cannabists, but you can add the many good and mercifull souls that also want to end oppression against women, men, children, and I hope that these ads spark a revolution, not only about trust but that good and peaceful people may come together and reform this bloody lusting world of greed and power.
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Comment #26 posted by E_Johnson on October 15, 2005 at 11:57:56 PT

The three R's
We're right, we're responsible and we're respectful.I think any communication with the public has to say all three of those things to disarm the lack of trust in marijuana users that has been created and maintained by the antis.
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Comment #25 posted by FoM on October 15, 2005 at 11:55:36 PT

Brainy
You're welcome. You've been able to say things that I have thought but kept to myself. I am not brainy at all. I hated school and walked out and never went back at the end of my 11th year. I don't read books either. I am very different then many people I think. I look at life in my own way.
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Comment #24 posted by Hope on October 15, 2005 at 11:55:13 PT

Maybe they are trying to be controversial
to get more attention. They could have been more thoughtful in their presentation of their idea. That seems obvious.There was once a billboard in San Antonio that showed a cannabis leaf and said something about ending "road rage"...that was all. No numbers to call. Nothing to vote for. As I was told about it...it was just simply the leaf and "end road rage" or something like that. I never heard a word in the media about it. Only heard about it from people who saw it.
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Comment #23 posted by E_Johnson on October 15, 2005 at 11:52:23 PT

Thanks FoM
I've led a really brainy intellectual life but this movement has taught me the genius of simple Christian virtues. So I'm just summing up what I've learned.
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Comment #22 posted by Hope on October 15, 2005 at 11:50:38 PT

If they could remove the picture of the woman
and leave the glaring hate filled drunk...it might be less offensive.
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Comment #21 posted by FoM on October 15, 2005 at 11:43:07 PT

My Oh My EJ
You said what I have felt for a long time. 
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Comment #20 posted by E_Johnson on October 15, 2005 at 11:38:05 PT

Two jobs this movement has, not one
Some people think the only job we have to perform in this movement is proving we are right.But I say the second job we have to do is -- building trust.You can prove you're right all you want but there's no law that says voters have to vote for the side that has proven itself to be right.They're going to vote for the side they trust. Ignoring the concerns about these ads is not the way to build trusting relationship with the voters.See, this is why the Libertarians get so few votes. They have these big shiny inetllects. They dress very sharply and always look like really smart people.But trust in this society is not awarded on the basis of intellect. It's a lot more complicated than that. Emotional issues play a role, and not necessarily a bad one.I think people don't trust the intellectual arguments of Libertarians because they see the Libertarians as being too intellectual and hence distanced from emotion, distanced from feeling, perhaps even unfeeling.It doesn't matter how smart you are, people won't like you unless they feel some sense of emotional sensitivity coming from you that they feel they can trust.I think the Colorado group could win huge amounts of votes right now by immediately stopping the offending ads and issuing an apology recognizing that while their intentions were good, they understand now that people have feelings about the use of battered women in this context that deserve to be respected.That would look really emotionally mature and make the voters have a new respect for the sense of community responsibility of the marijuana movement.
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Comment #19 posted by Ron Bennett on October 15, 2005 at 09:57:11 PT

Right Idea, but wrong approach...
They have the right idea ... alcohol does tend to make people more violent. No doubt about it - have seen many well mannered folks go way off the handle after drinking a few.However, to mention domestic violence in their ads really clouds the issue, and likely will turn many folks against their cause.In their next ad campaign, they should dump the domestic violence angle and instead, perhaps, highlight how cannabis tends to make people more docile - ie. Seattle Hempfest this past August had crowds in the tens of thousands and yet ZERO arrests ... many Seattle police officers actually request working that event because it's so peaceful compared to other various large gatherings.Ron

cann.com
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Comment #18 posted by Hope on October 15, 2005 at 09:56:57 PT

You can buy "trouble" for your desk!
http://www.changetheclimate.org/gift.phpLooking for trouble? This looks like it could bring down SWAT teams upon one's head.A fake plant, no less. If tomatoes or sunflowers can bring on the hell raisers of the SWAT teams...I shudder to think at their excitement over catching sight of this little beauty.
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Comment #17 posted by goneposthole on October 15, 2005 at 09:53:28 PT

neocons are abusers of the greatest order
Look at the turmoil they have caused in this world. Their bolshevism has turned this country and world upside down.It has become bizarre. How bizarre. How bizarre. How bizarre.That's what they like to do. You can't make an omelet without breaking eggs. You can't make coffee without grinding coffee beans.Politics has become meaningless with them around. It is the power that they love. They abuse it to no end.When you hear the words 'disgraceful and appalling,' think of the neocons. They are to blame for this whatever it is.Hard to imagine, but it is the case. The neocons can obfuscate and adjust the circumstances to their advantage at all times.People are something they manipulate. If you want to saddle the blame on any one group, the neocons are the one and only group that can be blamed. When they're gone, it will be good riddance. Their actions speak louder than words. A fine example is Bill Bennet. He is a 'do as I say, not as I do' rogue of a human as there ever will be.His slip shod behavior has been his undoing. The wise are now the vulgar. Hardly gentlemen, any of those wily, sneaky neocon cads.I won't hate them. They are the engine behind this ratcheted up cannabis prohibition. When I think of the Reagan Administration, I think of the beginning of the neocon era. Donald Regan resigning in disgust was the tipping point. The truck driver that lost his rig for having rolling papers on his dash is the giveaway.The neocons have done immense damage. Blame them.
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Comment #16 posted by FoM on October 15, 2005 at 09:40:15 PT

Toker00 
I'm glad you think it might help your friends.
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Comment #15 posted by global_warming on October 15, 2005 at 09:35:22 PT

Good for the Goose
"Women's advocates said the "disgraceful and appalling" ads mislead voters and ignore the root causes of domestic violence. .."It really is trying to sell the issue of marijuana on the backs of the victims of domestic violence, when the two really having nothing to do with each other,""The anti's or so called prohibitionists have been lying for years, coupeling cannabis with that proverbial demon and a host of other evil lies.Now the same technique is used against them and they get all lathered up,..Ha
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Comment #14 posted by FoM on October 15, 2005 at 09:28:03 PT

Little Boxes On The Hillside
Dankhank I too love the music. Ganja Baby, Wacky Tabacky and I can't help laugh when I listen to I Can't Move! LOL!
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Comment #13 posted by Toker00 on October 15, 2005 at 09:25:18 PT

FoM, EJ, runfuff
That is so kool, FoM! I'm sending that LINK to all the guys I work with who take viagra. Thanks.I agree with you EJ. Didn't at first, but you are good at making a point. Ditto.runruff, I got mail today. I'll give you my revue in a couple of joints. Thanks, bro.Wage peace on war. END CANNABIS PROHIBITION NOW!
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Comment #12 posted by Dankhank on October 15, 2005 at 09:17:49 PT

Weeds
I was pretty sure ... like you I heard little if anything negative in the media about the show.Expected a firestorm ... re: what will the children think?Bottom line ... Great show, great cast, great stories ... great music ... how could it miss?Little Boxes, made of ticky-tacky ...
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Comment #11 posted by Hope on October 15, 2005 at 09:09:05 PT

Why not tell someone?
Because it was a huge secret. We were ashamed and embarrassed for anyone to know and getting neighbors and authorties involved would have made it worse. I do recall that one neighbor found out that he was a drinker and wouldn't let me play with their daughter because of it. That hurt...but I never told anyone.If as a child I'd told a neighbor...I would have gotten the beating of my life. I also knew, as I got a little older and from my parents fighting before it escalated to escape, that children of violent alcoholics sometimes were taken by the state. The rest of my family was wonderful and I adored them. I didn't want to be seperated from them.It's a terrible life that a batterer gives to his family. He seldom just lets his family go when they try to leave him. He follows them and becomes a danger to even more people and the authorties don't jail them forever when they do jail them. Then revenge becomes a factor that lives in that "worm" that lives in their brain and the terror is escalated. They come back after the most important thing in their lives...after drink...their families. The most that most families like that have to hope for is that somehow it will get better. Which it seldom does.
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Comment #10 posted by Hope on October 15, 2005 at 08:49:28 PT

Yes, I lived it, too.
I've often wondered how our lives could have been different if Daddy could have chosen cannabis to deal with his pain instead of alcohol. There was only aspirin available then, that I know of. He was in constant physical pain from his history of injuries and broken bones. Most of the time he didn't cross that line from pain numbing use to violence and rage, but he did often enough that it was a major part of our lives. I wish it could have been different for him and us.Luckily, because of my mother's choice of tactics...we were "runners" and not usually "battered". We spent a lot of evenings in the dark and a lot of daylight hours on the patio waiting for him to tire of his rages and go to bed. He never drank until he passed out...so we couldn't wait for that. He seldom carried his attacks further than a few feet beyond the back door. He was aware enough of what he was doing to not want the neighbors involved. As far as I know, the neighbors or authorities never knew of it.Unlike most batterers, he wasn't filled with regret the next day. We just went on like it didn't happen until it happened again and until we could find a way to leave him...and him not follow us... to finally escape it all.Towards the last of his life, he was filled with insight and regret. I think I'm the only one in the family, four children and mother, who was ever able to forgive him.Life is hard.
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Comment #9 posted by siege on October 15, 2005 at 08:33:35 PT

 E_Johnson:
In our small town we have a video arcade, and some of the kids smoke weed and play the Violent Games while high
and they say it is Harded to make the Kill when high.
I'm not a doctor or have made no reacher on this just observe it a small town. sorry about your domestic violence
we all have thing in our passed that are bad...
So we should do more reacher that is all ready there or could we take it from people that have been there! on both sides...Art,
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Comment #8 posted by Hope on October 15, 2005 at 08:31:00 PT

"I grew up with it in my home"
I can imagine a child of a batterer seeing this ad and being filled with such childlike hope, it makes me sad. "If Daddy would just do that..."It would be wonderful if cannabis could change batterers overnight. The people who made the ad probably had never lived with a batterer or a true alcoholic...or worse a true alcoholic batterer. While alcohol is like gasoline on a fire...the fire is still there...whether they are drunk or not. They are angry, fearful, confused, and disturbed even without alcohol. They don't even know why they're angry...just that certain people...usually a helpless family member, can set it off and make them feel they've found the source, the reason for their extreme anger, by spilling a glass of milk. A person like that who knew how to use cannabis, might check himself when he felt that anger rising and go out to the garage and cool off a minute or smoke and relax and get himself under control...but that would be something learned after long use and knowing how it would effect you. There is a "worm" in the brain of a batterer and all too often, he wants to find a way to release it's battering tendency. He wants to hurt people because he's hurting in some way that he doesn't understand and doesn't have the skills it takes to control himself.I'm sure it might help dramatically in some cases but it's far more complicated than just alcohol and cannabis or even Prozac or Zoloft can deal with. It would be nice if it were a simply solved problem. That child of the batterer would be so relieved.
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Comment #7 posted by FoM on October 15, 2005 at 08:08:00 PT

About The Article
I don't understand it. I don't want to ever promote substance use of any kind. I just want the laws changed so people can make up their own mind about Cannabis and it's benefits.
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Comment #6 posted by E_Johnson on October 15, 2005 at 07:50:31 PT

I think they should pull the ad actually
Whether they are in theory right or wrong to do this, in practice it will cause them to lose a LOT of votes. People have very strong emotions about domestic violence. I grew up with it in my home and I have strong emotions too. I could picture becoming so offended by this use of battered women as a political object that I could vote against this myself just to educate the initiative sponsors not to mess with domestic violence unless they have some real solutions to offer.
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Comment #5 posted by E_Johnson on October 15, 2005 at 07:46:28 PT

This is a tricky issue
The truth of domestic violence is that alcohol is often involved. But I don't like the idea of using the image of a battered woman because people switching from alcohol to pot won't really change domestic violence.Alcohol is often involved in domestic violence yes but the root cause is in the belief system of the batterer. Men who believe women should be dependent on men for everything are the statistically "top performers" in this field. Giving that kind of man pot won't change his attitudes or diminish his desire for absolute control over his little household kingdom one tiny bit.It takes many months of intensive counseling to get a batterer to change his ways and that's only if he wants to change very badly.The ones who don't want to change -- nothing can change them, not prison, not pot, nothing.
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Comment #4 posted by FoM on October 15, 2005 at 07:28:09 PT

Dankhank
My husband finally saw the finale of Weeds last night. I read on Weeds Message Board that it will be renewed. They left so many doors open I sure hope the rumors are right.
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Comment #3 posted by FoM on October 15, 2005 at 06:51:49 PT

Dankhank
Yes they are the same people. They sure know how to stir up people don't they? LOL!
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Comment #2 posted by Dankhank on October 15, 2005 at 06:48:44 PT

Sex
FoM,you get around ... :-)aren't these the same folks that caused such a stir in DC that OK's Inhofe got crazy?More power to them ...
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Comment #1 posted by FoM on October 15, 2005 at 06:35:51 PT

Check Out Sex News TV from CTC
http://www.changetheclimate.org/tv/sex.html
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