cannabisnews.com: Medical Marijuana Hearings Begin





Medical Marijuana Hearings Begin
Posted by CN Staff on August 23, 2005 at 09:13:39 PT
By Brendan Coyne
Source: NewStandard
New York -- A hearing into a challenge to federal laws prohibiting research and experimentation with marijuana opened today, with the American Civil Liberties Union charging that the Drug Enforcement Agency’s efforts to fight such privately-funded research posed an unnecessary obstruction that could prevent researchers from definitively finding out whether the plant has legitimate medical uses. The proceedings cap a four-year battle by a University of Massachusetts professor seeking to grow marijuana for research into the prohibited plant’s medicinal uses.
Through its Drug Law Reform Project, the ACLU is representing the plant researcher, Lyle E. Craker, in front of a Department of Justice administrative law judge who will make recommendations to the Drug Enforcement Agency (DEA).Craker, who heads the Medicinal Plant Program at the University of Massachusetts–Amherst is fighting a 2004 DEA final denial of his request for a permit to grow marijuana for research. He first sought approval in 2001, according to pre-hearing papers.Currently all marijuana used for research must come from a Mississippi farm contracted by the National Institute on Drug Abuse. The DEA has said no more sources for research plants are needed.Proponents of Craker’s proposal have said that supply from Mississippi has been inconsistent and the potency of the drug questionable.In addition, DEA officials expressed concern that the professor’s growing operation would lack proper supervision to prevent misuse or theft of the plants.Craker, the ACLU and medical marijuana research supporters claim the federal restrictions prevent independent research, stifling scientific and medical inquiry. They have also pointed out that by preventing study on the medicinal benefits of the plant, the DEA has "slammed the door" on efforts to gain approval of the drug from the Food and Drug Administration. Source: NewStandard (NY)Author: Brendan CoynePublished: August 23, 2005Copyright: 2005 The NewStandardWebsite: http://newstandardnews.net/Contact: ed-letters newstandardnews.net Related Articles & Web Sites:ACLUhttp://www.aclu.org/MAPShttp://www.maps.org/ Hearings Begin Today in ACLU Challenge http://cannabisnews.com/news/thread21051.shtmlDEA Ruling Renders Approval Impossiblehttp://cannabisnews.com/news/thread20037.shtml
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Comment #59 posted by global_warming on August 27, 2005 at 12:44:22 PT
re:comment 48
Mat 5:29 If your right eye causes you to sin,gouge it out and throw it away.For it is better that you lose one of the parts of your body than for your whole body to be thrown into hell.Mat 5:30 And if your right hand causes you to sin,cut it off and throw it away.For it is better that you lose one of the parts of your body than for your whole body to go into hell!Mat 5:33 "Again, you have heard that it was said to our ancestors,You must not break your oath, but you must keep your oaths to the Lord.Mat 5:34 But I tell you, don't take an oath at all:either by heaven, because it is God's throne;Mat 5:35 or by the earth, because it is His footstool; or by Jerusalem, because it is the city of the great King.Mat 5:36 Neither should you swear by your head, because you cannot make a single hair white or black.Mat 5:37 But let your word 'yes' be 'yes,' and your 'no' be 'no.' Anything more than this is from the evil one.
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Comment #58 posted by global_warming on August 25, 2005 at 17:19:42 PT
re;BS Ear Protrectors
"Thompson also reports that Presidential aides told him that Bush continually refers to war protestors as “m……fu…..traitors” and became extremely upset at reports of VFW members wearing ‘bullshit protectors” over their ears at a recent speech, saying:"Cindy's tears are thick and they are not going to easily be dismissed,Hang in their "women with no answers".The pigs that snort the loudest,May be the most important pigs,Especially when it it is feeding time.May God fill and illuminateYour place and footsteps,On our common pathGlory, in the Highest,ktpgw
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Comment #57 posted by global_warming on August 25, 2005 at 16:08:56 PT
Suppositions
Mabybe that Head bone is connected to our bowels,Maybe our intestines might illuminate our discoveries,The realms of the subconscious are best explained By the Doctors and PsychiatristsAnd those deeply invested in Academia.You can hide and feel better,For a while,There is no medicine,That can soften the pain,God Is Merciful,For as the Miracle of LifeFills our sensesThere is an end.Be thankful,For God has providedFor all his children.For those that are not close to God,You might remember that best guitarThat best songThat sweet toneThat helps to forgetPlay it loud,So that the sound of those nails,Pounded into his flesh,Can never be heard and forgotten.ktpgw
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Comment #56 posted by afterburner on August 25, 2005 at 11:47:35 PT
'put your vision to reality'
Wake up and live by Bob Marley and Anthony Davis
http://www.alwaysontherun.net/bob2.htm#s10{QUOTE}One, two, three, four!Wake up and live, y'all,
Wake up and live!
Wake up and live now!
Wake up and live!Life is one big road with lots of signs,
So when you riding through the ruts, don't you complicate your mind:
Flee from hate, mischief and jealousy!
Don't bury your thoughts; put your vision to reality, yeah!All together now:
Wake up and live (wake up and live, y'all),
Wake up and live (wake up and live),
wake up and wake up and live, yeah! (wake up and live now),
Wake up and (wake up and live) - wake up and live!
Rise ye mighty people, ye-ah!
There's work to be done,
So let's do it-a little by little:
Rise from your sleepless slumber! Yes, yeah! Yes, yeah!
We're more than sand on the seashore,
We're more than numbers.
All together now:
Wake up and live now, y'all!
(Wake up and live) Wake up and live!
Wake up and live, y'all!
(Wake up and live) Wake up and live now!
You see, one - one cocoa full a basket,
Whey they use you live big today: tomorrow you buried in-a casket.
One - one cocoa full a basket, yeah, yes!
Whey they use you live big today: tomorrow you bury in-a casket.W'all together now:
(Wake up and live now!) Wake up and live! Oh! Yeah-eah!
(Wake up and live!) Uh!
(Wake up and live now!) Wake up and live!
(Wake up and live) Keep on playin'!
(Wake up and live, y'all) Uh! Yeah! Yeah!
(Wake up and live!)
(Wake up and live now!)
(Wake up and live!) Break it down!
---
/Saxophone solo/
Come on, man!
How is it feelin' over there?
(Wake up and live now) All right!
(Wake up and live!) Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Uh!
Come on, man!
You gotta wake up and live!
---
Life is one big road with lots of signs, yes!
So when you riding through the ruts, don't you complicate your mind:
Flee from hate, mischief and jealousy!
Don't bury your thoughts; put your dream to reality, yeah!W'all together now:
(Wake up and live, y'all)
(Wake up and live!) Wake up and live, yea-eah!
(Wake up and live now!)
(Wake up and live!)
Wake up and live now!
(Wake up and live) Wo-oh!
Wake up and live now!
Wake up and live{ENDQUOTE}
SOUND CLIP - REAL MEDIA
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Comment #55 posted by Hope on August 25, 2005 at 09:23:36 PT
I suppose
that often if you're having a very serious message from your subconscious...the seemingly sometimes belligerent child that it can be...it whacks you in the belly for attention. Or the head...as is the case with migraines.Everything is connected...like in the old gospel song..."the knee bone connected to the...". It's a reality. We aren't just one organ walking around. We're not all about being a brain. We are a lot of things joined and working together as a single unit. It's all connected and the human body is a lot about "bowels".The old song doesn't say it but of course...the head bone is connected to the toe bone...too.
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Comment #54 posted by ekim on August 25, 2005 at 09:10:35 PT
much discussion Hope
i was surprised to learn how much seratonen (sic) is located in the stomach as nerves are not able to withstand the acids. also to learn how many million of us are affected by bowel diseases, and the controversy over how the mind influences our bodies. also the lack of medications to help the people.
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Comment #53 posted by Hope on August 25, 2005 at 08:18:01 PT
ekim
I'm not tuned in to the show...but I've certainly had a painful thought stab me in the gut before. I have had painful thoughts effect my skin, too.
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Comment #52 posted by FoM on August 25, 2005 at 08:06:56 PT
Hope
I think like you do on so many things. Do we love our children who disobey us? Yes of course we do. No one on this earth is perfect.
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Comment #51 posted by ekim on August 25, 2005 at 07:23:14 PT
NPR Diane Rehm Show about gutt and brain
how they effect eachother
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Comment #50 posted by Hope on August 25, 2005 at 07:20:35 PT
On top of that....
I believe that the God I imagine or not and believe in (my personal understanding at this point) is going to be good to him...and I believe he is so concerned that he could shed a tear of sorrow for him...and that he loves him like child. I believe that he is merciful, gentle, humble, jealous, and beautiful...like a loving Mother...like a loving Father...like a loving Brother.
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Comment #49 posted by Hope on August 25, 2005 at 07:14:51 PT
Yes....we are all "disobedient"
We all mess up. We all do the wrong thing sometimes. To be "obedient"...to be "good"...to be "Christ like"...It's not a rule or commandment. It's a hope, a goal, an admonition, a guide. The closest thing to a "rule" is "Love one another as I have loved you."
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Comment #48 posted by whig on August 25, 2005 at 01:38:59 PT
Obedience
I will say a thing about obedience, and perhaps it will be misunderstood, but it is this. You are given free will in order to decide what path you will take, and moreover to make a path of your own choosing. To say that it is wrong to be "disobedient" is to miss the point of free will, I believe. Pat Robertson has free will, he may call himself a Christian and he may say things that contravene the moral good, and for this he will be held to account by his own inner demons, who also are part of God. For there is but one God, and not two, but having many aspects which serve many purposes, among them each one of ourselves and the choices which we make in the name of our divine self. And we will each in time come to judge ourselves, and to make good what we must in order to live in peace, or else we shall terrify ourselves with our own guilt for our words and our actions.Thus I say I am both Michael and Samael, and I have the consciousness of the christ within me, and I do not take salvation for what I do, because that is not what my conscience says to do, and it is not for me to demand mercy for the things I have done, but I will accept mercy if I am given it freely by those who I may ask forgiveness of, and from God, for that which I have and will do in error or in weakness. Beware of that which says, I am the light, and the truth, and stone the other, for all are God, and you are God, and you judge yourself, or give yourself mercy when you may, but not evade the truth which you know and will come to know within.Do not listen to my words and take them for more than words, look within and take stock of yourself, become what you are, and do what you will do, and know that not one thing that you do shall be ever forgotten.
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Comment #47 posted by The GCW on August 24, 2005 at 20:50:38 PT
Robertson Apologizes???
So do people now think He's an obedient Christian?
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Comment #46 posted by global_warming on August 24, 2005 at 16:56:06 PT
Robertson Apologizes
"Religious broadcaster Pat Robertson apologized Wednesday for calling for the assassination of Venezuelan President Hugo Chavez, "http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/08/24/AR2005082401470.htmlMaybe Patrick has come to his senses?Maybe his zeal has been tasted and found to be very bitter and many refuse to swallow his venomous verbage?Maybe some people are starting to wake up and hear the call, to take that man down from the cross?gw
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Comment #45 posted by E_Johnson on August 24, 2005 at 14:01:21 PT
Why do we need a smoked pain medication?
http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20050824/hl_nm/painkillers_bleeding_dcNEW YORK (Reuters Health) - Approximately one third of all hospitalizations and deaths related to gastrointestinal bleeding can be attributed to the use of aspirin or nonsteroidal anti-inflammatory agents (
NSAIDs) painkillers like ibuprofen, a study in Spain suggests.Moreover, up to one third of these painkiller-related incidents may be due to low-dose aspirin.
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Comment #44 posted by FoM on August 24, 2005 at 12:51:30 PT
Hope
Yes it is cause for alarm.
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Comment #43 posted by Hope on August 24, 2005 at 12:38:58 PT
What Bush seems to believe in.
I can understand his understanding of Almighty God. What I'm not understanding is why Bush, the fundamentalist, doesn't believe, ”If you know me, you know the Father." If he truly believed that, he would be considering the New Covenant in Christ he claims to believe in.He finds himself believing that there is no new covenant and 
Jesus was not "God in a robe of flesh". Nor does he believe that "God made himself a little lower than the angels to taste death for us all.""Oh ye of little faith."Faith, even expressed as a "God paranoia" which, in Bush and Robertson seems more dependant on the God of the old covenant and therefore is quite natural...under the circumstances. That thunder and lightening business seems to appeal more to them, than gentleness, kindness, forgiveness, and love that seems apparent in the history of Yeshua, aka a lot of other names, too. I believe they actually may think that Jesus was a wimp...or sort of wimpy, and prefer to stick with the thunder and lightening and earth shaking and drop dead if you look in the box personna.He doesn’t have to be going around claiming to be a Christian. But if he is, I think he should be studying harder “…to show himself approved.”When I feel like our leader is that "confused"...I feel concerned...even alarmed.
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Comment #42 posted by FoM on August 24, 2005 at 10:26:51 PT
Oh My
Bush just said that freedom is Almighty Gods gift to the world. I sure wish we truly were free to decide our own destiny.I was just getting ready to turn the news off and heard that. 
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Comment #41 posted by ekim on August 24, 2005 at 10:12:54 PT
The debate over the net energy balance 
http://www.ncga.com/news/main/index.htmlNCGA Forum Centers on Ethanol’s Return on Energy Investment (8-23-05)
The debate over the net energy balance of ethanol took center stage at a forum hosted by the National Corn Growers Association (NCGA) today in Washington, D.C. at the National Press Club. Representatives of both sides in the debate agreed on one point – the United States desperately needs to find a liquid fuel replacement. (More On This Story) 
http://www.renewableenergyaccess.com/rea/news/story?id=35238
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Comment #40 posted by E_Johnson on August 24, 2005 at 09:55:03 PT
Fear vs. love
Hope, that feels like the struggle we're in now.The other side wants to make us look scary, wants people to fear us, and they also want us to fear them.It's hard to come from a place of love in that atmosphere but I guess that's one more thing that makes our struggle about much more than just marijuana.
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Comment #39 posted by ekim on August 24, 2005 at 08:22:27 PT
great outlook for the future if we all speak up
was a great forum, am suprized that the second is not for sale.
 The second forum had good presentations from Genocor the company that with NREL has developed enzymes that break down cellulose into useable sugars for distilling into ethanol. Had positive outlook for farms and biofuels with many hundreds of thousands of jobs in diverse areas.http://www.ethanol-gec.org/fall2001/fall15.htmlThis is a pdf overview of NREL/Genencor work from 2003. 
http://www.eere.energy.gov/biomass/pdfs/genencor_esp_review.pdf
 
Here is an NREL Press release about Genencor/NREL winning a Top 100 R&D award in 2004.
http://www.nrel.gov/news/press/2004/3404_technologies_lauded.html
 
you could get more specific information if you called NREL http://inside.c-spanarchives.org:8080/cspan/fullschedule.csp?timeid=21199150
9481Forum
Ethanol and Energy Policy
National Corngrowers Assn.
National Press Club
Washington, District of Columbia (United States)
ID: 188549 - 08/23/2005 - 1:03 - $29.95Dale, Bruce, Professor, Michigan State University
Pimentel, David, Professor Emeritus, Cornell UniversityForum
Renewable Energy
National Corngrowers Assn.
Washington, District of Columbia (United States)
ID: 188549 - 2 - 08/23/2005 - 3:00 - No Sale
http://www.hempology.org
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Comment #38 posted by FoM on August 24, 2005 at 08:00:02 PT
Dongenero
I really enjoyed all the comments. How can we understand one another unless we talk about what makes us think and feel the way we do? Talking about faith in a time when the world is spinning out of control helps me put things in a proper perspective and I hope others too.News is slow but it is the end of summer and always is this way of year. It picks up in September but it picks up more as we head deeper into the Fall. At least that is how I've always seen it to be.
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Comment #37 posted by dongenero on August 24, 2005 at 07:37:57 PT
sorry for the off topic FoM-but good reading
These are some great posts. I'm really enjoying everyone's take on the issue.Sorry to start the off topic subject FoM. I guess the cannabis news is a bit slow at the moment anyway.
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Comment #36 posted by Hope on August 24, 2005 at 05:58:41 PT
didn't finish my sentence
"Those types of "Christian" are often referred to as "Legalistic Christians"...when in fact, the many "Legalistic Christians", who cling to the "old" covenant...as opposed to the "new" covenant...between man and the invisible, spiritual God that many of us sense and have "spiritual" connection with," are really more Jewish in their beliefs and the "path" they follow, than they are Christian.
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Comment #35 posted by Hope on August 24, 2005 at 05:54:50 PT
Shoot 'em all and let God sort 'em out...
War like "Christians". I think they lean to the Old Testament stories of war and wrath and retribution as the basis, or excuse, for their behavior, and ignore the New Covenant, in him called, "Jeshua" and many other things, many of us believe to be the "Christ" promised in the old writings and covenant of "The Law".Those types of "Christian" are often referred to as "Legalistic Christians"...when in fact, the many "Legalistic Christians", who cling to the "old" covenant...as opposed to the "new" covenant...between man and the invisible, spiritual God that many of us sense and have "spiritual" connection with.There is nothing wrong with having "something to believe in"...even if it doesn't seem rational...and the rightness or wrongness of it can be judged by it's "fruit". If death and destruction are it's "fruit"...I would judge it to not be a very good "tree".There are many "Trees of Renown".
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Comment #34 posted by Hope on August 24, 2005 at 05:17:28 PT
Fear and my idea of God
I once read this. That going to, seeking, or finding God through fear is like going in the back door of a house. It's a legitimate entrance, but you can go in the front door...which is love. That makes sense to me.I've stood at the "back door" a few times.
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Comment #33 posted by Hope on August 24, 2005 at 05:09:19 PT
Runruff
"In a nutshell"...I love it. That's so funny.Is anyone else reading the transcript...so far...for this hearing?It's 168 pages.http://www.aclu.org/medicalmarijuana/legal/082205hearing_transcript.pdf
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Comment #32 posted by whig on August 24, 2005 at 04:57:40 PT
The GCW
"Christ is back."Cannabis is the eucharist.
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Comment #31 posted by whig on August 24, 2005 at 04:54:07 PT
Comment #12
"You cannot hide your disgrace, iniquity, for God seeks not to punish you, it is your own knowledge, each mark on the ledger of the slate of your soul, that will testify and become that infernal weight, that pulls you asunder."Amen.Michael
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Comment #30 posted by Hope on August 24, 2005 at 04:22:34 PT
Struggling to do the "right thing"...
a better thing...isn't always easy. It's usually character building though.
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Comment #29 posted by Hope on August 24, 2005 at 04:20:36 PT
Being insulted when their
"brand" of Christianity disgraces the teachings of Christ. No way! Do they insult Christ? I don't know. I believe that's bigger than me. and my idea of "God" is bigger than me...therefore it's his business and he's capable of handling it.It is NOT easy to always love your neighbor. It is Not always easy to choose a path. That doesn't mean to just ignore that admonition, deciding for yourself or others that "It simply can't be done", therefore it doesn't apply.There are ways to pick out the "poseurs" and deluded or mistaught.And yes, many religious people are very...even extremely, fearful.
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Comment #28 posted by Hope on August 24, 2005 at 04:08:55 PT
"appearing"
Finally...this guy seems to be "appearing" to understand that he could be wrong.At least that's the way I read it.
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Comment #27 posted by Hope on August 24, 2005 at 04:06:55 PT
The 700 Club
I've watched it several times. Maybe, quite a bit, actually. I sort of laughed to myself yesterday, when I was thinking about Robertson's "fatwa"...and remembering the "cast and crew" on 700 Club, that at least there is probably no real danger of any of his "minions" putting real effort into carrying out his "fatwa"...unlike the minions of some other "mullahs".Then I got to worrying about some nut out there in TV Land getting carried away with things Robertson says.Dr. James Dobson, and crew.At least the piece couched it's accusation in the word "appearing".
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Comment #26 posted by Hope on August 24, 2005 at 04:00:52 PT
In Texas
Several years ago they made them stop wearing the baklavas during "bust outs". That was an improvement.They actually mean to terrify citizens into obedience. What does that make them?I did read just the other day about a bust of a pain doctor's office in Florida, that agents burst in wearing black baklavas. Many people were terrified...as well they might be.
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Comment #25 posted by OverwhelmSam on August 24, 2005 at 03:58:04 PT
If Christians are Christians.
If a Christian is truly a Christian and live's by Jesus' words, I can respect that. But the second so called Christians fail to love thy neighbor and judge not, they are living an evil life of lies and hypocracy, and garner nothing but contempt from me for manipulating Christianity to push their hate agenda.Pat Robertson and Jerry Falwell are no different than Osama Bin Laden in my book. I'm suprised they're not convincing fanatical Christians to fly planes into buildings.
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Comment #24 posted by Hope on August 24, 2005 at 03:55:35 PT
Neo-Cons. Religious Right.
The historic repetition of the tale of the Sadducees and the Pharisees of Jeshua's (Since I heard it, I've rather always liked that as one of his names...and he has many)days in the flesh.They don't like it when we mention that we feel that much of their behavior brings to mind, "Nazis". I was saying this over at DrugWarRant, perhaps we should start just calling them, "Cruel and heavily armed, armored,"buff", zealous, cruel, lout like Puritans".
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Comment #23 posted by Hope on August 24, 2005 at 03:39:46 PT
Lovin what you all are saying...
I havn't read all the comments yet. But I'd like to say that, I am loving what you are are saying. You are such bright, sincere, honest people. A light shines from you.
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Comment #22 posted by The GCW on August 23, 2005 at 20:39:47 PT
Just read about Pat Robertson... and other stuff..
About Robertson and other comments here...Pat Robertson and "Fundamentalist Christians" and Catholics...are disobedient Christians.There is a fork in the road and down one fork is Christ God Our Father, The Ecologician who says to love one another.Down the other fork is people that deny God from the beginning; They support caging humans for using what God says is good on the 1st page of the Bible (The beginning). The 1st page of the Bible; the beginning, is also known as "The word of life". That fork also contains those who deny God on the 3rd page of the Bible; killers / murderers.Plain disobedience.They deny God when We are to glorify Our Father.We are all either obedient or disobedient Christians.A murdering killing Christian is a disobedient Christian!The Green Collar Worker
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Comment #21 posted by FoM on August 23, 2005 at 19:59:09 PT
The GCW 
I'm doing fine. I'm just very busy with our home contruction. The news is slow in the states right now so I'm justing waiting for something to break loose. I have no interest in doing news about Emery but Medpot and Mapinc are covering a good deal of news so why should I duplicate there hard work? 
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Comment #20 posted by The GCW on August 23, 2005 at 19:30:30 PT
mayan, BGreen & FoM,
Christ is back.The BS protector is good. Physically; but I like the spiritual one best. The Spirit of truth exposes the deluding influence, The Man of Lawlessness, disobedient Christians and things like that.FoM, What is going on? I understand You want to resist the Emery news... but it seems You have stopped all Canadian news. I have not looked back long or searched... What's wrong?Are You ok?The Green Collar Worker
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Comment #19 posted by FoM on August 23, 2005 at 19:06:35 PT
BGreen
Oh My BGreen! That is priceless! LOL!
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Comment #18 posted by BGreen on August 23, 2005 at 18:49:28 PT
Picture from the Canadian Press
I'm sorry if this is old news, but I just saw this and I'm rotflmao.Here's the unedited caption under the picture:Bill Moyer, 73, wears a "Bullshit Protector" flap over his ear while President George W. Bush addresses the Veterans of Foreign Wars. (AP Photo/Douglas C. Pizac)The Reverend Bud Green
Anti-Bush BS Protector
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Comment #17 posted by mayan on August 23, 2005 at 18:21:34 PT
WWJD?
If Christ came back today the Bush's and Robertsons of the world would try to have him crucified again as Jesus would be a threat to their power. Who would need the hypocrites if you could have the real deal? THE WAY OUT IS THE WAY IN...Errors of Commission: The hijacking of the probe into the 9/11 hijackers:
http://www.villagevoice.com/news/index.php?issue=0534&page=mondo1&id=67096 9/11 Widows Further 9/11 Commission “Mistakes”:
http://911citizenswatch.org/modules.php?op=modload&name=News&file=article&sid=646&mode=thread&order=0&thold=0 Hi-Res Scans of Major 9/11 Article in Daily Mail:
http://www.911blogger.com/2005/08/hi-res-scans-of-major-911-article-in.htmlC-SPAN will be broadcasting the entirety of the McKinney congressional briefing on 9/11:
http://copvcia.com/free/ww3/081205_mckinney_911_cspan.shtml 
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Comment #16 posted by global_warming on August 23, 2005 at 17:46:58 PT
1st Amendment
Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.Breathing that fresh air and histories refreshing airs and the fresh airs that mingle with current obesities and burdens that will blossom and illuminate your passage into Eternity.All will be revealed,In this passage,Peace, Gentleness, Grace, and Christendom, Muslims, await, the end, when all the souls infected,Grace,Marks the Dawn.ktpgw
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Comment #15 posted by Max Flowers on August 23, 2005 at 17:08:04 PT
My right to religious freedom
I'd like to say it again... the 1st Amendment makes clear that government has no jurisdiction over and no right to meddle in the religious/spiritual affairs of people, therefore, even if my personal take on religious practice---unique to me and a few others on the planet perhaps---is an unusual blend of Buddhism and Paganism which incorporates cannabis as its catalyst (I use that word in place of the term "sacrament"), then that is my Constitutionally protected right under US law and it supercedes any interest that any cop, Senator, Congressman, `drug czar' or even President could credibly claim to have. 
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Comment #14 posted by FoM on August 23, 2005 at 16:32:27 PT
runruff 
I know what you mean. I don't often call God anything but God. God doesn't have baggage in my opinion.
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Comment #13 posted by runruff on August 23, 2005 at 16:26:01 PT:
In a nutshell.
Which would be an appropriate container for some of these 
counterfit cultist nuts.But first let me say. No one ever called Mary and Joseph's child Jesus in his life time. His mother his brothers and sisters and disiples called him Yeshoa. This cartoon super hero the so called christians call Jesus never existed except in the imagination of a Roman militant jew named Saul [Paul]. I do personally believe with all my heart the teachings of Yeshoa. He to me is the real deal. Him you can take without all the dogma that comes with any off the 360 christian denominations. Each one believing the other 359 are all going to hell because they don't drink out of the right side of a cup or something. It's all about belief in your spiritual God or being or however the spirit of our creator manifest him [her}self to you. I believe Yeshoa had [has] it right. It took for me a lot of meditating [praying] and soul searching. But in the end a relationship whith God is a personal thing and religion only confuses things.Just my 2 centsNamaste 
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Comment #12 posted by global_warming on August 23, 2005 at 15:48:51 PT
re:Christians
When Judaism gave birth to the Messiah, that Anointed Child,That would end up on a wooden cross,Jesus was the tip of this societies discontent,Religion is the gift that God has given all living beings,Greed and the seeds of secret bargains,May be that awful and eternal curse,When politics and law sleep in the same barn,Surely, some hideous beast of this burden,Will seek to procreate...Song 	Knocking On Heaven's Door
Singer 	Guns N Roses
lyric 	Mama take this badge from me
I can't use it anymore
It's getting dark too dark to see
Feels like I'm knockin' on heaven's doorKnock-knock-knockin' on heaven's door
Knock-knock-knockin' on heaven's door
Knock-knock-knockin' on heaven's door
Knock-knock-knockin' on heaven's doorMama put my guns in the ground
I can't shoot them anymore
That cold black cloud is comin' down
Feels like I'm knockin' on heaven's doorKnock-knock-knockin' on heaven's door
Knock-knock-knockin' on heaven's door
Knock-knock-knockin' on heaven's door
Knock-knock-knockin' on heaven's door"YOU JUST BETTER START SNIFFIN' YOUR OWN
RANK SUBJUGATION JACK 'CAUSE IT'S JUST
YOU AGAINST YOUR TATTERED LIBIDO, THE BANK
AND THE MORTICIAN, FOREVER MAN AND IT
WOULDN'T BE LUCK IF YOU COULD GET OUT OF
LIFE ALIVE"Knock-knock-knockin' on heaven's doorThank you Bob Dylan, hoping your Ghost visits Cindy,.."I think each man is destined in life to fulfill whatever he's called to do, and some people, unfortunately, are on the dark side," Pat Rudolph, 77,.."And while she said she shares her son's distrust of government power -- "I think the government that rules the least is the best"..In the 1960s, Pat Rudolph and her late husband were radical pacifists, protesting the Vietnam War."http://www.cnn.com/2005/LAW/08/22/rudolph.mother/index.html..The Fallwels and Roberstsons may someday ponder where they were brought up, scratch their heads and wonder, why the White Man is the true leader of this world.Abortion of fetuses, though objectionable, is a choice in this world, this democracy, this American Constitution, is built on so much more.The Magna Cartas and human constitutions clearly reflect the minds and spirit of all of our ancestors..Freedom.Those that seek to find bargains to Heaven, tread on the soft ground of plea-bargains and are easily assured, their passage into the Grace of God.You cannot hide your disgrace, iniquity, for God seeks not to punish you, it is your own knowledge, each mark on the ledger of the slate of your soul, that will testify and become that infernal weight, that pulls you asunder...How did the American Revolution begin?-"In 1773, with the issuance of the Tea Act, the East India Company was granted a virtual monopoly on the importation of tea. In protest, a group of Boston citizens disguised as Mohawk Indians boarded a ship and dumped 342 chests of tea into Boston harbor. This ws known as the Boston Tea Party."http://www.socialstudieshelp.com/Lesson_8_Notes.htm..Thoreau, Henry David
	  http://columbia.tfd.com/Thoreau,+Henry+David..Civil disobedience
	http://encyclopedia.tfd.com/Civil+Disobedience..Supreme Court refuses to reconsider property casehttp://www.cnn.com/2005/LAW/08/22/scotus.seizingproperty.ap/index.html"Stevens said that "the public outcry that greeted (the ruling) is some evidence that the political process is up to the task of addressing such policy concerns."..kptgw
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Comment #11 posted by FoM on August 23, 2005 at 15:13:02 PT
Dongenero
Thank you. That is very interesting to read. I was raised Catholic and I learned to question everything from those teachings. I am glad that I was raised Catholic and then ventured out to try to figure it all out myself. I believe that Churches do serve a purpose. We had a food bank in the one fundamentalist church I went to and we visited a local nursing home. I was a youth leader and taught them separately from the regular church. I took them to King's Island ( amusement park ) for a day and we competed in the state in Bible Quizzing. We won the state championship and it made the children feel so good. Churches are good when they provided needed services but being judgmental is counter productive.
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Comment #10 posted by dongenero on August 23, 2005 at 14:53:03 PT
me too
I had a world religion class in college that presented all of the major world religions on equal footing.It gave me a different perspective on religion and why people subscribe to religion.It left me with the impression that most religions are based on man's fear of being alone against a harsh cruel world.It also left me feeling more inclined towards Buddhism, Taoism, and native american "religion".It did make me question Christian faith once everything was presented equally and without bias to one or the other.(Here is where Pat Robertson would start praying for the death of all intellectual, liberal scum, extremist college professors.)
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Comment #9 posted by FoM on August 23, 2005 at 14:25:42 PT
mamawillie 
Thank you. I believe I must be closer to a Buddhist in my thinking then about any religion. I just can't believe in one religion as right and others that are wrong. 
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Comment #8 posted by FoM on August 23, 2005 at 14:20:23 PT
billos 
I was very active in a fundamentlist church many years ago but I soon noticed that the narrow minded thinking of denominations just didn't settle right with me. I said from the beginning that this war we are in is a religious war and I still believe it is today between the Christians, Islam, and the Jewish people. There have always been conflicts and then secular issues like oil get put into the equation and a real serious problem occurs. 
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Comment #7 posted by mamawillie on August 23, 2005 at 13:43:39 PT
Buddhism: absence of all notions and ideas
Buddhism doesn't have any fanaticals because to be a Buddhist means to let go of all notions and ideas on a subject and to just "be". In this way, we can examine all aspects of a topic and develop compassion for ALL sides.Thich Nhat Hanh is a very inspirational Zen Buddhist who incorporates Christianity in his writings and was nominated for a Nobel Peace Prize by Martin Luther King, Jr. His books include: "Peace is Every Step", "Going Home: Jesus and Buddha as Brothers", "No Death, No Fear", "The Art of Mindful Living" and "Living Buddha, Living Christ" among others. All are excellent and easy to read.In regard to Dr. Rudd... his quote actually reinforces the ACLU's position: "And until research shows...." What he is saying is that if reseach shows concretely that cannabis is medicinal, he'll believe otherwise. There is no research. He seems to hold out a small percent chance that research might show something different. Maybe I'm reading too much into it... but I do think his quote illustrates the need for research. How ironic is that?
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Comment #6 posted by billos on August 23, 2005 at 13:42:22 PT
........FoM...........
That is similar to the remark made by the foolish person, Jerry Falwell;It went............."If one of them people (he was referring to homosexuals) looked at me wrong, I'd have to kill 'im and tell God he died."The congregation then went into a roaring applause.The fundamentalists have always been dangerous. They are just gaining momemtum now because of the Bush.
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Comment #5 posted by FoM on August 23, 2005 at 11:51:20 PT
Dongenero 
I think that Buddhism is different because they don't ascribe to anyone one God figure I think. It's more of a philosophy. God is good but people make God out to be the instigator of wars and killing and I really mind that.You know the expression:Kill them all and let God sort them out.
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Comment #4 posted by dongenero on August 23, 2005 at 11:41:43 PT
FoM
I'm sorry if I have insulted you or any other "sane, normal" Christians.I am a Christian....I guess. I am confirmed as such anyway. Obviously most Christians are very good people.  Sensible, compassionate, tolerant and loving. It is just that these extremists really set me off. It makes me want to turn 180 degrees from religion and run. I can't believe that society accepts that type of rhetoric and sends this guy millions of dollars. It's criminal.You are correct, it is this hard line fundamentalism which is the problem, whether it is Christianity or Islam.
Maybe Buddhism is the way. They don't have a bunch of crazed, violent nuts do they?
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Comment #3 posted by FoM on August 23, 2005 at 11:31:27 PT
Dongenero 
I was once an admirier of Pat Robertson. I am very upset seeing on the news on tv that he called for an assassination of Chavez. I'm at a point where I can't barely call myself a Christian because Christianity has taken a very dark turn. Fundamentalism no matter what religion is getting very scary to me.
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Comment #2 posted by dongenero on August 23, 2005 at 11:23:34 PT
snipped-Venezuelan leader vows to cut US antidrug 
Not really cannabis related but DEA related:""BOGOTÁ -- In the latest sign of deteriorating relations with the United States, President Hugo Chavez of Venezuela has vowed to cut off all bilateral antidrug cooperation and expel the US Drug Enforcement AdministrationTwo Chavez aides later accused US agents of siphoning off confiscated drugs for illegal sting operations and conducting raids in the absence of Venezuelan authorities.Washington vehemently denied the charges, and a US official in Caracas said yesterday that DEA agents never had an office at the Venezuelan antidrug agency and have not, as Venezuelan officials assert, had diplomatic privileges revoked.""Pretty wild, everyone is fed up with the meddling. Then we have venerable nut, Pat Robertson calling for the assasination of Chavez...oops. Bad diplomacy.
He also prayed for openings in the Supreme Court, which basically means death, illness, etc.
These Evangelical wackos are drunk with the power of the mandate they have given Bush for their theocracy.Time for a correction......hello America? Got brains?
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Comment #1 posted by FoM on August 23, 2005 at 10:34:11 PT
Related Article from Focus on the Family
ACLU Wants DEA Approval for Marijuana Research By Bill WilsonAugust 23, 2005The Drug Enforcement Administration is being sued by the American Civil Liberties Union because, according to the ACLU, the government will not supply marijuana for research to see if it’s appropriate for medicinal purposes. The advertised goal of the suit is to force the government into allowing a commercial enterprise to grow marijuana for research. ACLU witness, Richard Doblin of the Multidisciplinary Association for Psychedelic Studies.“Our goal is specifically to make marijuana into an FDA approved prescription medicine. No Drug development can really take place until we get our own independent source of supply.”Doblin charges that the government is not interested in medical marijuana research.“They will fund research into the risks of marijuana, but they will not fund research into the benefits. And the major foundations are still reluctant to such a controversial area as medical marijuana.”Dr. Gene Rudd of the Christian Medical and Dental Association says there is good reason medical marijuana is not available to the public“We don’t make these available because we have better products that can be used more safely. And until research shows, which I don’t see any evidence that it’s going to, that these are superior and safer than what we are currently using, there is no need to make medical marijuana available.”While nobody in the ACLU camp is saying it, this appears to be a back door attempt to legalize marijuana. The National Institute on Drug Abuse estimates that marijuana is the most commonly used drug in the US . About half of America ’s teenagers try marijuana before finishing high school. 
 Support this effort to promote the family in the public policy arena. You can receive family news stories by e-mail. Sign up now for this complimentary service. Copyright: 2005 Focus on the Familyhttp://www.family.org/cforum/fnif/news/a0037612.cfm
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