cannabisnews.com: Medical Pot Smokers Seeking a High Medical Pot Smokers Seeking a High Posted by CN Staff on June 19, 2005 at 21:43:50 PT By Ken Strang - Commentary Source: North County Times California -- I am a pharmacist with 36 years' experience in San Diego. I read the article on pot use by people who have chronic illnesses that cause pain and nausea.The article does not mention that tetrahydrocannabinol (THC), the active ingredient in marijuana, is legal and available under the name of Marinol. It can be purchased with a prescription from a physician at any pharmacy. Marinol, like other drugs for AIDS and cancer, is covered under most insurance plans, including Medi-Cal. Why do the users choose smoking as the drug delivery system? Smoking is an extremely dirty dosage system. Do they know that three marijuana cigarettes have approximately the same amount of cancer-causing tar as 20 tobacco cigarettes? Do they know that carbon monoxide produced by the burning process displaces oxygen from the red blood cells? Do they know that smoking is an inexact dosage system? How would one know how much one has consumed since different plants have different THC levels, and people smoke at different rates? Do they know that marijuana use is associated with significantly increased incidence of mental illness and psychological disorders? So why is it that people can't or don't want to use Marinol, which is available in a clean and exact dosage form? I suspect that Marinol capsules just do not produce the high that smoking the plant produces. And isn't this, after all, what our users are after?Marijuana does not cure anything ---- not cancer or degenerative spine disease or scoliosis or any of the other conditions mentioned in the article. I am sorry for these folks with these serious medical conditions, and I think we are doing them a disservice by not providing them with all the expertise of a rational medical community. There are effective and much safer drugs and treatments that should not be overlooked. The smoking of marijuana simply does not make medical sense.North County resident Ken Strang is a pharmacist in Oceanside.Source: North County Times (CA)Author: Ken Strang - Commentary Published: Sunday, June 19, 2005Copyright: 2005 North County Times Contact: editor nctimes.comWebsite: http://www.nctimes.com/Related Articles & Web Sites:Court: Let Congress Legalize Ithttp://freedomtoexhale.com/still.htmMedical Marijuana Information Linkshttp://freedomtoexhale.com/medical.htmCongress Should Amend Drug Lawshttp://cannabisnews.com/news/thread20867.shtmlCongress Should OK Medical Marijuanahttp://cannabisnews.com/news/thread20846.shtml Home Comment Email Register Recent Comments Help Comment #38 posted by jose melendez on June 29, 2005 at 01:42:48 PT Re: comment #37, nctimes Paging "Docotor" Strang:http://nctimesblog.com/editor/?p=19#comments Re: ” . . . the free exchange of thoughts, ideas and opinions in the public arena is a key part of what makes this nation what it is . . . “Editor,I would hope that Frederick B. Becker’s column, “Mixed messages going up in smoke” (http://www.nctimes.com/articles/2005/06/12/opinion/commentary/17_20_286_11_05.txt ) generated a few letters from readers brave enough to dispute the claims the author presents as fact.To assist others interested in exposing such . . . bunk, I have assembled a point by point refutation, with enough supporting evidence to thoroughly disprove the claims presented in that June 11 essay:Specific anticompetitive actionshttp://rxpot.com/debunker/The media has the power to shape opinion, by revealing or omitting true facts that could arm Americans with the tools needed to make healthful and conscious decisions over the products they ingest. Corruption in the regulatory process obscures the truth from consumers, and it is the responsibility of everyone from food inspector and street cop to investigative journalists to speak out against such injustice.Even as ONDCP blanketed airwaves, talk shows and conducted political campaigns across the country denying marijuana's usefulness compared to approved medications, an estimated 30,000 to 50,000 American citizens died as an apparent and direct result of using Merck's painkiller Vioxx, which earned the pharmaceutical giant many billions in revenue before the company voluntarily pulled the deadly pills from the market.By participating in such fraud and repeating false claims(13) about marijuana, some who claim to support a drug free America have personally authorized or received payment from the federal government based on those false claims, or by their own admission enjoyed decades long careers(14) by exposing us all to far greater harm.For nearly one hundred years, wealthy industrial interests have conspired to restrain American rights and trade, defrauding our government and lining their pockets by participating in or ignoring the wholesale and systematic mass murders of our citizens.Also, and with DEA approval, the Office of National Drug Control Policy and the Partnership for a Drug Free America work closely with pharmaceutical and drug testing firms to garner public support through outright false claims and misleading propaganda that demonizes and attempts to demoralize cannabis users, restrict their employment and social standing. In turn, members of this untaxed "partnership" enjoy enormous and otherwise unlikely extra profits, both from increased legitimate sales and from legal products diverted to the black market. - - -http://lawprofessors.typepad.com/antitrustprof_blog/2005/week23/A View From The DOJ: Vaguely Transparent, Clearly CorporateHewitt Pate, the current head of the antitrust division in the Department of Justice, spoke on antitrust and intellectual property last week at the 2005 EU Competition Workshop in Florence, Italy. His talk was subtitled Licensing Freedom and the Limits of Antitrust. Here's a sample:"Sound antitrust enforcement condemns anticompetitive conduct. It does not attempt to regulate the amount of competition in a general sense or address vague questions of fairness. It does not attempt to create an affirmative incentive for procompetitive conduct, by promising any specific reward or legal recognition for competitors who play by the rules. It focuses on specific anticompetitive actions, as judged by their effects on markets and consumer welfare. Although this narrow focus is a limitation, at the same time it is a great strength--it makes possible objectivity, predictability, and transparency. . . .Commerce, Cannabis, and CompetitionAs perhaps you have heard by now, the Supreme Court upheld Congress' power to regulate medicinal marijuana under the Commerce Clause in Gonzales v. Raich, decided yesterday. The decision was correct as far as federalism is concerned but bad policy from the perspective of drug regulation. It is unlikely that Congress will backtrack on the war on drugs, but perhaps sometime in the next ten years (as the wind on the Hill starts blowing in a different direction), there will be a federal exception for medicinal uses. Most likely what will happen before then is a policy of, to coin a phrase, "don't tell, don't prosecute." At least, I hope federal agents don't start going after the infirm and the weak even if they have the power to do so.Jose Melendez, founder of the Concerned Citizens Coalition to Criminalize Prohibition in Florida, offers a novel theory: the war on drugs is anticompetitive policy and has been influenced by members of industry that want to monopolize and raise the price of legal intoxicants and pharmaceuticals. Mr. Melendez offers a colorful and interesting perspective which probably meshes with some of the realities of the history of marijuana regulation in the United States, even if the theories are a bit too conspiratorial. - - - [ Post Comment ] Comment #37 posted by FoM on June 28, 2005 at 20:31:33 PT Opinion: Much Stronger Case is for Marijuana By John H. Terrell Tuesday, June 28, 2005 I'd like to act as devil's advocate in response to Dr. Strang's article, "Medical pot smokers seeking high" (June 20). First, there are several reasons users choose to smoke marijuana rather than take Marinol:1. Marinol contains only tetrahydocannabinol (THC), but there are other active ingredients in marijuana as well, so for most users the whole plant is more effective. 2. Marinol is taken orally, so it must pass through the digestive system before taking effect. Smoking is an effective delivery system, providing relief almost immediately. And, in the particular case of someone suffering nausea following chemotherapy, asking them to try to hold down a pill while vomiting seems a bit much. 3. Marinols cost several times as much as marijuana, if the marijuana is purchased, or infinitely more than if it's homegrown. Chronic pain sufferers often need pain medication for the rest of their lives, so cost is definitely a concern.It's true that smoking is a dirty dosage system, and yes, carbon monoxide is produced. But millions of tobacco smokers have had no problem accepting these same conditions for use. Have you seen and compared the cause-of-death rates for tobacco and marijuana? Check out this reference: Journal of the American Medical Association, Jan. 19, 2005, Vol. 293, No. 3, p. 298. For Year 2000, 435,000 deaths are attributed to tobacco; none are specifically attributed to marijuana, but some may have been lumped into the 17,000 attributed to all illicit drug use. So, tobacco use is legal, but medical marijuana isn't? The stench of hypocrisy is strong across our land.Increased incidence of mental illness and psychological disorders from marijuana use is a risk factor to be considered. Here are the users' choices: live in severe pain for the rest of their lives, or get enough relief so they can cope with life now and worry about the possible consequences later.I directly dispute that smoking is an inexact dosage system. Because the effect is immediate, the user can quickly tell when the pain has been assuaged, and that is the correct dose. I do agree that marijuana doesn't cure anything, but not many pain relievers do, since they weren't developed for that purpose.Are users just looking for a high? I don't think so. They are looking for pain relief.Millions of people self-medicate with alcohol for social anxiety and other reasons. Is alcohol effective? Apparently so. Is it safe? It's dubious at best. Is it ever abused? You better believe it.Given marijuana's superior safety record, why shouldn't medical marijuana users be allowed to self-medicate, too?For the record, I'm 72 years old. I've never used marijuana or any other illegal drug and don't ever intend to. I am firmly opposed to recreational use of illegal drugs and to the abuse of prescribed drugs.John H. Terrell lives in Fallbrook.Copyright: 2005 North County Times http://www.nctimes.com/articles/2005/06/29/opinion/commentary/19_32_226_28_05.txt [ Post Comment ] Comment #36 posted by jose melendez on June 26, 2005 at 15:14:54 PT Sublingual: melts in your mouth From the second letter in the nctimes page:" . . . while it is true that the prescription tablet contains a "clean and exact dosage" of delta-9-tetrahydrocannabinol (THC), this does not mean that a more exact therapeutic blood level of THC can be obtained with the tablet compared to "the dirty dosage system." The opposite is probably true. As much as 90 percent of the THC in a swallowed tablet is destroyed by the liver before it ever reaches the brain.This variability can yield a slow onset of an unpredictable therapeutic effect. In contrast, the ingredients in smoked marijuana, bypass the liver and reach the brain quickly through the lungs.Second, when therapeutic levels of Marinol are achieved, many of the side effects seen, including marijuana-like highs, do not differ significantly from those of smoked marijuana.Third, patients under a physician's care with AIDS, nausea from cancer chemotherapy, intractable pain, etc., are not seeking a high with either Marinol or marijuana, but only relief from their symptoms. Finally, it makes far more medical sense for physicians to make medical decisions on the use of either medical marijuana or Marinol rather than rely on the tender mercies of the politicians or the courts.LESLIE E. BAILEY, PH.D.Emeritus Professor of PharmacologySun City http://www.nctimes.com/articles/2005/06/24/opinion/letters/6_23_0517_25_51.txt [ Post Comment ] Comment #35 posted by VitaminT on June 26, 2005 at 14:54:41 PT One Published Response North County Times has published only one letter responding to this editorial but man it's a good one! There's another pro medicinal Cannabis letter in the group but it refers to some other article. NCT Letters from June 24. 2005. [ Post Comment ] Comment #34 posted by jose melendez on June 24, 2005 at 14:11:51 PT yes That's exactly what I'm saying, Max.Drug war IS crime, and all it would take would be a million marijuana lawsuits. If they threatened to take your kids away because you refused to put them on Ritalin so you did and the kid died, the murderers that bought off our politicians and marsupial magistrates ought to pay for the next 30 years.If yo' baby daddy had his business ruined because it conflicted with some white collar criminal who suppressed comparative safety and efficacy data from the public with the knowing consent of the Food and Drug Administration, baby daddy deserves a settlement, a clean record and free health care for life.If some suit at the USDA kept playing golf with his big beef buddies while his own employees were threatened to keep quiet or lose their jobs, big beef deserves time with big Bubba.And whoever beat the crap out of that Los Alamos nuclear whistleblower (and no, George it's NOT newkiller, no matter how often you consciously choose to mispronounce the word) be ready for the new digital age. We are armed to the teeth with video cameras and computers, and will out you faster than you can say, "I'd have gotten away with it, if it weren't for those meddling kids!"If you are a lawyer reading this, call me. I'll make you a commercial with your own voice that you can air and see how many Americans have had ENOUGH of this war against us.If you think suing doctors was good for your bank account, you ain't seen nothin' yet. - end transmission Million Marijuana Lawsuits 888 247-8183 [ Post Comment ] Comment #33 posted by Max Flowers on June 24, 2005 at 11:27:11 PT Whoops, I meant #19, sorry Regarding the false claims tort. [ Post Comment ] Comment #32 posted by Max Flowers on June 24, 2005 at 11:25:49 PT Jose, question regarding #13 Is that to say that 1,000 or even 10,000 people individually could each bring one of those complaints against a corportation that is spreading misinformation (false claims)? With that kind of potential penalty power, it seems possible to take them down if enough people got involved. [ Post Comment ] Comment #31 posted by FoM on June 21, 2005 at 10:32:43 PT VitaminT Thank you too. I'm not a writer but I really want CNews to be a place where each one of us uses our talent. That's the best way to accomplish a goal as we work side by side. I often won't comment on an article if I don't know what to say but others find something to say. We are a little community of honest to goodness do gooders! [ Post Comment ] Comment #30 posted by VitaminT on June 21, 2005 at 09:37:09 PT Thank you kindly Hope . . . and Jose and FoM and everyone else. Writing letters is much easier with so much ready information at CNEWS! [ Post Comment ] Comment #29 posted by jose melendez on June 21, 2005 at 07:41:55 PT team effort (grin) glad to be of service.You might want to open an account at onebox,com, they have fax capability and 800 (and many other area code) service where the callers are forwarded to your phone or voice email box you can access online.The faxes seem to get more serious attention than the emails . . .As you all may have noticed, I've taken to using their own rules against them. Their mistake in attempting to restrain the cannabis trade was simple, they are breaking many, MANY U.S. laws. [ Post Comment ] Comment #28 posted by siege on June 21, 2005 at 07:07:59 PT jose melendez Thank you for the input had not thought of it that way...Art. [ Post Comment ] Comment #27 posted by Hope on June 20, 2005 at 19:05:51 PT Big Smile... "They do not stand a chance against a sober air jose." [ Post Comment ] Comment #26 posted by jose melendez on June 20, 2005 at 18:28:18 PT Hope and all . . . Some papers have already responded in their autoreplies to me that they only consider letters submitted for exclusive use by their paper, and do indeed consider submission to web blogs, etc. to be competing publications.My suggestion to truncate our letters that we post here, or rephrase them when sending to other papers that ran the same article was to protect you in that regard. I prefer that journalists and professional writers that lurk or actually post here (thank you Dan B!) continue to do so. Yes, many, many lawsuits are pending, as I today hired an attorney on retainer for CCCCP, and was referred by close skydiver friends and others to three rather more powerful ones.As I've mentioned, they do not stand a chance against a sober air jose. [ Post Comment ] Comment #25 posted by Hope on June 20, 2005 at 17:33:48 PT Comment 23 ...FoM I hope so. The comments are just people talking to each other mostly and anyone who looks in is just sort of looking in on, while not private, basically just personal conversations and comments on the articles or whatever we might be talking about.Papers don't like it when a letter from a member of the public shows up in several papers in the same area. Sometimes they specify that they don't want letters that have been sent to other papers, too, but we seldom see those specifications by using the contact points we usually use. It's not something they can legally or actually control. Although, they consider it sort of a point of ettiquette and it might cause a letter writer to get blacklisted. [ Post Comment ] Comment #24 posted by Hope on June 20, 2005 at 17:09:52 PT Jose Besides informing the public and refuting his commentary...your letter might make his eyes bug with the sudden paranoia of the possibility of a looming lawsuit.Good.It'd do them good to think twice before spouting their lies. [ Post Comment ] Comment #23 posted by FoM on June 20, 2005 at 17:09:21 PT Hope I sure think you are right. This is a news board where we can comment but we aren't affiliated with any paper. [ Post Comment ] Comment #22 posted by charmed quark on June 20, 2005 at 16:54:23 PT marinol As a long-term marinol user, I feel I'm an expert.Of course it gets you high. To get therapeutic effects with marinol, it gets me MUCH higher than whole cannabis would. The CBD in whole cannabis reduces the "high" of cannabis. And the CBD has potent therapeutic effects.I have to take Marinol every day to manage my condition. With cannabis, only a couple of times a week.And the delivery method is a problem. I hate waiting, in pain, for the three hours it takes to peak. As oppose to 5 minutes for a vaporized puff of cannabis.Somebody needs to tell that idiot all of this.It's great that marinol exists. My insurance pays for it and it's legal. Without it I would be out of luck.Why they have never considered adding the non-pyschoactive CBD ( which is schedule 1! How can something that doesn't get you high be schedule 1!) I don't know.But my guess is that whole cannabis would still be superior. [ Post Comment ] Comment #21 posted by Hope on June 20, 2005 at 16:44:31 PT Jose I didn't think posting on a comment board counted as though you sent it to another print publication. Does it? Maybe our best hope is then, that they don't read CNews. [ Post Comment ] Comment #20 posted by Hope on June 20, 2005 at 16:37:47 PT Go for it, Vitamin T...if you haven't already. It looks good. Very good. [ Post Comment ] Comment #19 posted by jose melendez on June 20, 2005 at 16:21:35 PT Hope, siege, all: Please note that many papers will not publish a letter if you submit the same letter to other papers, or online. It pays to snip portions of your work if you want to post it on C-News and still want the papers to publish your LTE.Here is something roughly similar to the letter I am sending in response to the above licensed pharmacists attempt to restrain trade in cannabis, which was deemed an item of commerce in Gonzalez v. Raich. By law that was decided after the now infamous wheat decision (http://www.law.umkc.edu/faculty/projects/ftrials/conlaw/wickard.html ), trade in said commerce may not be restricted for reasons of economic protectionism: Indeed, such protectionism was the argument successfully used by Solicitor General Clement to enforce a continued prohibition against any lawful island of cannabis for medical use, despite the application of that argument toward the opposite regulatory. Indeed, Congress is not regulating marijuana, but rather has relegated all control over quality and age restrictions to the black market, which Clement specifically asked that the Supreme Court protect. - - -Editor,( . . . the author) apparently would have us all take him at his word that medical marijuana use is an excuse to get high. Such speculative and prejudicial presumptions are certainly insufficient cause for arrest with any of the legal drugs that are not simply injurious to public health, but actually kill well over half a million American citizens every year.Public pronouncements from those licensed to distribute palliatives designed to ameliorate pain, nausea and stress claiming that cannabis is more harmful by comparison are in direct conflict with the available medical literature and indicate an arbitrary, capricious, and likely unethical attitude and practice. Almost without question, said imprudent and irresponsible published comments will lead to increased public harm, not only from toxic, defective and dangerous yet approved medications, stimulants and intoxicants, but also from law enforcement official sworn by oath to protect and defend us all.Furthermore, any company or individual authorizing or accepting federal payments or contracts based on false claims risk severe financial penalties and may lawfully be incarcerated for that federal crime.Fraudulent propaganda such as that published in "Medical Pot Smokers Seeking a High" leads to otherwise unlikely profits for pharmaceutical corporations that market their defective and dangerous wares through federally paid Medicare and Medicaid contracts.Got corruption?Jose Melendez www.CCCCP.org 888 247-8183 - -http://www.law.umkc.edu/faculty/projects/ftrials/conlaw/hood.htmlOur system, fostered by the Commerce Clause, is that every farmer and every craftsman shall be encouraged to produce by the certainty that he will have free access to every market in the Nation, that no home embargoes will withhold his export, and no foreign state will by customs duties or regulations exclude them. Likewise, every consumer may look to the free competition from every producing area in the Nation to protect him from exploitation by any. Such was the vision of the Founders; such has been the doctrine of this Court which has given it reality.- - -The False Claims Act, 31 U.S.C. § 3729 et seq., provides for liability for triple damages and a penalty from $5,500 to $11,000 per claim for anyone who knowingly submits or causes the submission of a false or fraudulent claim to the United States. The statute, first passed in 1863, includes an ancient legal device called a 'qui tam' provision (from a Latin phrase meaning 'he who brings a case on behalf of our lord the King, as well as for himself'). This provision allows a private person, known as a 'relator,' to bring a lawsuit on behalf of the United States, where the private person has information that the named defendant has knowingly submitted or caused the submission of false or fraudulent claims to the United States. The relator need not have been personally harmed by the defendant's conduct.http://www.usdoj.gov/usao/pae/Documents/fcaprocess2.pdf18 U.S.C. § 1961, et seq.Because a corporation can only function through its employees and agents, any act of the corporation can be viewed as an act of such an enterprise, and the enterprise is in reality no more than the defendant itself. Thus, where employees of a corporation associate together to commit a pattern of predicate acts in the course of their employment and on behalf of the corporation, the employees in association with the corporation do not form an enterprise distinct from the corporation. Riverwoods, 30 F.3d at 344http://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/scripts/printer_friendly.pl?page=2nd/999279.html [ Post Comment ] Comment #18 posted by VitaminT on June 20, 2005 at 15:41:43 PT If this letter can be improved I'd welcome comment Concerning Ken Strang's commentary "Medical Pot Smokers Seeking a High," Mr. Strang's comments belie his professional credentials as a pharmacists and betray a commitment to War-on-Drugs orthodoxy.He correctly states that Marinol is Tetrahydrocannabinol (THC) available in a "clean and exact" dosage. But why only THC? What about the many other therapeutically valuable Cannabinoids contained in the whole plant. Many patients find Marinol to be a conundrum, for some it's far too potent others find that it doesn't seem work at all. Strange but true, the route of administration makes all the difference! This is the sort of thing a pharmacist ought to know.Mr. Strang makes much of the "clean, exact dosage" of Marinol but as dosage goes the exact 5mg and 10mg capsules of Marinol are significantly larger than the typical smoked or inhaled dose because smokers self-titrate their dosage, meaning they use only the amount necessary to achieve the desired effect. This is a fact whether the use is intended for the relief of pain or the promotion of pleasure. I would expect a professional to know and understand this fundamental concept but inconvenient facts sometimes interfere with the underlying message - smoking marijuana bad, taking big-pharma pill good.Prohibition's supporters are ever-ready with a list of the harmful effects of cannabis, each item couched in fuzzy language and overstated just enough that, taken as a whole, they sound more important than they really are. This practice is the norm in the business of War-on-Drugs "science." But none of the harms they name, collectively or singly, can even remotely compare to the damage done by a single arrest and conviction for the simple act of possessing a humble, helpful plant. The federal government's perverse commitment to the absolute prohibition of cannabis, means that they are statutorily unable to perform their most important public health mandate - informing the public. Were this not the case, we all would have learned by now that cannabinoids can be safely delivered by vaporization with none of the troublesome smoke. We'd know that people with a family history of severe mental illness are well advised to avoid cannabis without a doctor's supervision. Perhaps we'd even know what Strang means when he refers to unspecified "psychological disorders."Absent such fanatical drugwarism - many more of us would be aware of the exciting medical advances cannabinoids are bringing us. Some day soon, cannabinoids will be among the first treatments administered to head and spinal cord injury victims as current research reveals the stunning neuro-protective properties of these naturally occurring compounds. It's far cry from "curing" severe brain injury but a 60% reduction in nerve cell death in the first hours following such an injury could certainly have a positive effect in a patients remaining years of life.Cancer treatment may well be transformed by cannabinoids - not just to control nausea caused by chemotherapy - but perhaps to replace some chemotherapies as cannabinoids have been shown initiate cell death in some forms of cancer by cutting off their blood supply. Many other lines of scholarly inquiry into the medicinal value of cannabis are now advancing - overseas that is - those who govern us are so deeply committed to their own ignorance that many efforts to focus American scientific muscle on these possibilities lay tangled in DEA red-tape and obfuscation.So some people want to smoke pot "just" because they enjoy it? How dare they! Now let's continue to deprive the world of it's medicinal benefits because of course getting treated for an illness shouldn't involve any kind of joy.Why do Americans give quarter to such profound ignorance? [ Post Comment ] Comment #17 posted by siege on June 20, 2005 at 13:32:14 PT In rebuttal to (sent) Sir: Ken StrangI have a Granddaughter that none of the FEDERAL Government's Medicine and chemo or radiation stop. It is called an (inopperable Brain Tumor) I had to take a 125,000 loan on my place to help her, and that was to send her to a ''Foreign Country'' to receive the Medical help she needed to live, the trement was of real hight dose's of ( tetrahydrocannabinol) (THC) and other active cannabinoid in ''cannabis'' and specific G-protein-coupled receptors (the CB receptors) which are normally engaged by a family of endogenous ligands (the endocannabinoids)." That where used, and has to smoke 4 marijuana cigarettes I got her a'' Vaporizer'' till the first of the year when she gos back for a check up. ''cannabis'' That are not aprove in the U S and she is home after 7 mouths there, and is well and find, so if the other countrys can do it and they are third world countrys what is wrong with the good old U S A sir, Are they just ''incompetent'', or is it someone there having real deep pockets and just helping them self so the citizens of this country suffer inhumanely for the wealth of others. your truly: Art. [ Post Comment ] Comment #16 posted by whig on June 20, 2005 at 10:21:28 PT Re: #5 runderwo wrote: "I don't see why it is seen as some kind of irresistible 'forbidden fruit', even by those who claim that they would never touch it even if it were legal."So he drove out the man; and he placed at the east of the garden of Eden Cherubims, and a flaming sword which turned every way, to keep the way of the tree of life. Genesis 3:24.On the floor there's a long wooden table, On the table there's an open book, On the page there's a detailed drawing And on the drawing is the name I took. Gabriel 7:2.Michael Samael [ Post Comment ] Comment #15 posted by Hope on June 20, 2005 at 09:23:58 PT Sent Letter Ken Strang is in the business of selling morphine, Oxycontin, Valium, Marinol, and all the other drugs that medical marijuana patients always say they are able to take less of, or sometimes, even completely quit taking, with the help of marijuana.Every point Mr. Strang attempts to make can be refuted as prevarication, innuendo, ignorance, or self-serving to the hideous profit margin perpetrated on sick Americans by the pharmaceutical industry.The statement he makes that shocks me the most, however, and perhaps, is the most revealing of his not too hidden agenda, is, "Marijuana does not cure anything ---- not cancer or degenerative spine disease or scoliosis or any of the other conditions mentioned in the article."If Mr. Strang is aware of a pill, potion, or concoction that he sells that can "cure" "cancer or degenerative spine disease or scoliosis or any of the other conditions mentioned in the article", I suggest he let it be known to humanity as soon as possible. [ Post Comment ] Comment #14 posted by Dan B on June 20, 2005 at 09:14:07 PT Marinol was Mentioned, Strang Struck Out The article to which FoM provided a link is instructive in that it overtly discusses Marinol. I quote: "I find it hypocritical that the federal government and pharmaceutical industry seem to have no problem with testing, patenting, and marketing drugs such as Marinol, a synthetic of THC in capsule form, to help with nausea in cancer patients. Marinol has not proven as effective in relieving nausea as smoking marijuana, and nauseated people have trouble keeping the pills down."Strang must have stopped reading after the first sentence or two: "The article does not mention that tetrahydrocannabinol (THC), the active ingredient in marijuana, is legal and available under the name of Marinol." Even so, let me take this opportunity to remind everyone who write articles that while it is important to argue for our claims, it is equally important to anticipate the arguments of the opposition and argue against those claims. Doing so will provide a one-two punch that is much more diffcult to refute.Of course, in some cases the opposition will simply pretend that we never mentioned/refuted their arguments, as shown above. In those cases, we will have written documentation that refutes their assertions.Dan B [ Post Comment ] Comment #13 posted by Sam Adams on June 20, 2005 at 09:07:00 PT Seldane Don't forget Seldane - the anti-allergy medicine that was handed out like candy by men like Strang for years. Candy that caused permanent heart damage in tens of thousands of Americans before the drug was pulled by our compassionate masters in Washington. [ Post Comment ] Comment #12 posted by Sam Adams on June 20, 2005 at 09:05:04 PT hypocrite What a pitiful man, blinded by his own arrogance. How many arthritis patients has he cured with his toxic pills? (take a wild guess: there's no cure for either osteo- or rheumatoid arthritis) How many have been killed by his meds? How many bottles of Vioxx did he fill? How many other NSAIDS did he send out - were any of his customers among the 15,000+ that die from NSAID-caused GI bleeding each year in the US? How many customers suddenly experienced kidney or liver failure after faithfully downing his pills for 10 or 20 years? [ Post Comment ] Comment #11 posted by Hope on June 20, 2005 at 08:55:41 PT If Strang is aware of a pill or concoction that would "cure" "cancer or degenerative spine disease or scoliosis or any of the other conditions mentioned in the article"...I suggest he let it be known as soon as possible. [ Post Comment ] Comment #10 posted by FoM on June 20, 2005 at 08:33:03 PT 420toker Thank you for telling us about Marinol. I know my son didn't like Marinol because it made him feel way to spacey. It's sat in his medicine cabinet and got thrown away then. [ Post Comment ] Comment #9 posted by 420toker on June 20, 2005 at 08:02:18 PT I have taken Marinol And its like getting hit in the head with pot sledgehammer, I can assure you the high is very intact and last for a mindnumbing 6-8 hours and you feel very "burnt" afterwards. Not pleasent if you have anything else to do at all for the day. [ Post Comment ] Comment #8 posted by JSM on June 20, 2005 at 06:47:09 PT: runderwo I appreciate your comments and hope that you mailed the same to the paper that published this biased BS. [ Post Comment ] Comment #7 posted by goneposthole on June 20, 2005 at 06:24:10 PT It is all nonsense Everyday, nonsense takes place everywhere you go. Cars heading north, gazillions of cars heading south. Why don't the people heading north stay where they are in the south and those heading south stay where they are in the north? It makes no sense.Everyday, nonsense takes place everywhere you are. People going to the pharmacy obtaining any kind of chemical concoction they can find to help with their physical ailments. Why do they do it? Surely there is something somewhere out there in the wilderness, some plant or mineral that can help them out, they don't need to be standing in a pharmacy looking for what they need. It makes no sense to depend upon a group of people that say some pill is going to alleviate their problems, when what they should really be out walking in the forest checking out the forest floor for what they could use to relieve their aching back. A hundred doses of Zoloft or Prozac can do the job. If their knuckles swell from arthritis, they can take Vioxx or Celebrex.140 thousand deaths from one pharmaceutical prescription medication makes medical sense? Nonsense. These days, it would be wise to be a little bit leery about what is a presciption medicine.I'll use cannabis. It might not make medical sense, but it makes sense to me. I'll say it once more, if cannabis use would result in the deaths of 140 thousand people, nobody would use the stuff. There is a book entitled 'Drugs From Plants' by an author by the name of Trevor Williams; medication has humble beginnings. They originally were meant to do no harm, and, in fact, help what ever ailed the patient. Somehow, that has all been forgotten. If you will, it would seem to be easy, with no difficulty at all, to conclude that cannabis has those same humble beginnings. Somehow, that has all been forgotten. The pharmacist will have to sucker somebody else with his nonsense. [ Post Comment ] Comment #6 posted by jose melendez on June 20, 2005 at 04:02:20 PT mentiroso http://www.canorml.org/healthfacts/vaporizerstudy2.html Cal NORML/MAPS Study Shows Vaporizer Can Drastically Reduce Toxins in Marijuana Smokehttp://www.canorml.org/healthfacts/jcantgieringervapor.pdfand from: http://www.neurochem.org/newsletter/Dec2003/ReportGuzman.doc"Cannabinoids, the active components of Cannabis sativa L. (marijuana), exert a wide array of effects on the central nervous system as well as at peripheral sites. It is widely accepted that these effects are mediated by the activation of specific G-protein-coupled receptors (the CB receptors) which are normally engaged by a family of endogenous ligands (the endocannabinoids)." True or False? Marijuana does not cure anything. Also, what do palliatives cure? [ Post Comment ] Comment #5 posted by runderwo on June 20, 2005 at 00:10:04 PT reply "I am a pharmacist with 36 years' experience in San Diego."Yet you're playing doctor in this article. I suggest you stick to your area of expertise."The article does not mention that tetrahydrocannabinol (THC), the active ingredient in marijuana, is legal and available under the name of Marinol."It does not mention that because it is false. Not only is Marinol synthetic, but it is not the only active cannabinoid in cannabis. Where can I buy some synthetic CBD?" Why do the users choose smoking as the drug delivery system?"Because it works, and because pompous jackasses like yourself are constantly obstructing the legitimization of devices such as inhalers and vaporizers."three marijuana cigarettes have approximately the same amount of cancer-causing tar as 20 tobacco cigarettes?"If he would remove "cancer-causing", then this statement would remotely make sense. However, given that over 40% of the population has used cannabis at some point, and smoking is the most popular manner of delivery, WHERE ARE THE BODIES OF THE DEAD AND DYING POT SMOKERS? This claim is just stated over and over again as fact, without questioning whether it makes ANY SENSE or has ANY EVIDENCE SUPPORTING IT AT ALL." Do they know that carbon monoxide produced by the burning process displaces oxygen from the red blood cells?"Probably they do know, and simply don't care because they are dealing with bigger problems, and it works as-is with no obvious death toll. So let us grow potent stuff legally instead of having to smoke three times the amount of ditch weed (3x the CO) for the same dose."Do they know that smoking is an inexact dosage system?"Actually, it's more precise than a pill because a pill cannot take every patient's pain threshold into account. Smoking is a customized delivery system."How would one know how much one has consumed"Um, you smoke some. Are your symptoms relieved? If not, go to step 1. It's not like we are talking about something toxic here."Do they know that marijuana use is associated with significantly increased incidence of mental illness and psychological disorders?"Maybe they do, and unlike you, they don't implicitly accept correlations as cause and effect relationships. Me getting out of bed in the morning is associated with the sun rising. Therefore, me getting out of bed causes the sun to rise. If you can't also provide the MECHANISM by which the cause creates the effect, you have a VERY WEAK CLAIM. And in any case, your precious synthetic THC has the same problem if the THC in cannabis does!"So why is it that people can't or don't want to use Marinol, which is available in a clean and exact dosage form?"Because pills don't work for nausea and asthma, because some people need CBD, because Marinol is EXPENSIVE and not covered by at least some insurance policies, and..." I suspect that Marinol capsules just do not produce the high that smoking the plant produces."... and because people get high on Marinol when they don't WANT to, because they cannot control the dosage effectively. If you want to prove that this is false and that people only use the cannabis plant to get high (I guess this is looked down upon for some reason?), then arrange for a double-blind controlled study instead of continuing to obstruct research with your bleating."And isn't this, after all, what our users are after?"Well now, aren't you smart? It couldn't possibly be the relief of their PAIN AND LIFE-THREATENING SYMPTOMS, could it? No, once again, sick people are reduced to just a bunch of idle, schizophrenic lowlifes because they are using a plant, which has been used for thousands of years for the exact same things which it has been "discovered" recently for. It's a plant. Why is this so difficult? IT'S A F-ING PLANT! Get over it. It's not the end of society. It grows right in the ground. It has for thousands of years and we have survived until this point. I don't see why it is seen as some kind of irresistible "forbidden fruit", even by those who claim that they would never touch it even if it were legal. Clearly the vast majority of people who ever try cannabis recreationally do not continue to use it. I'm getting tired of listening to people who have no experience with cannabis go on and on about how terrible it is. If they want to prove that it is terrible, they need to show that bad things besides prohibition-related things happen to people because they use cannabis. None of this "you're bad because you're a USER=ABUSER" malarkey for me."Marijuana does not cure anything ---- not cancer or degenerative spine disease or scoliosis or any of the other conditions mentioned in the article."Excuse me? Who said "cure"? Just because these conditions are mentioned in the article doesn't mean a claim was made that any cure is there. Does Tylenol cure anything? I think you should be banned from selling it because it is not a cure. I think the phrase you were looking for was "symptom management", but that wouldn't have fit your quackery theme as well."I am sorry for these folks with these serious medical conditions,"Oh spare me. No you're not. This sentence fragment always precedes "you are an irrational outcast for using the cannabis plant and thus deserve jail"."and I think we are doing them a disservice by not providing them with all the expertise of a rational medical community."That's right. Now stop obstructing objective research in this area, and putting people in jail and stealing their plants instead of using them as test subjects as you should be."There are effective and much safer drugs and treatments that should not be overlooked."How much safer than "non-toxic" can you get? How much more effective than "it works for my symptoms" can you get? You're just pissed because you can't sell it without losing credibility among your peers."The smoking of marijuana simply does not make medical sense."Lots of things don't make sense, but they're still the right answer after objective examination. Preventing the objective examination doesn't make it any less right, it just means you're more interested in fostering myths and fallacies than you are in propagating truth. That's a sad part for a member of the medical community to be playing."North County resident Ken Strang is a pharmacist in Oceanside."You know, it seems like half the prohib articles come from people named "Ken". I wonder if that is a coincidence. [ Post Comment ] Comment #4 posted by Hope on June 19, 2005 at 23:31:50 PT And even though there is no way that medical cannabis can possibly take all his business away or even make a very large dent in it...that doesn't matter...he wants it ALL! Absolutely all...and that's that! [ Post Comment ] Comment #3 posted by Hope on June 19, 2005 at 23:21:59 PT Mustn't forget The author of this obviously biased piece is in the business of selling morphine, Oxycontin, Valium, Marinol, and all the other drugs that medical marijuana patients always say they are able to take less of, or sometimes, even completely quit taking, with the help of marijuana.There's that bottom line again. He's gotta hate that.He ought to be ashamed. But, guess what? He's not. He's got bills to pay, after all.Liver damage, proven for sure, or lung damage, unproven outside chance? The choice is not too hard. He's gotta hate that, too. [ Post Comment ] Comment #2 posted by Taylor121 on June 19, 2005 at 22:38:19 PT Medical sense Last I checked, not ever drug works equally in very patient, so while some would respond to marinol, others might respond better to marijuana. Marinol= 1 synthetic cannabanoid, cannabis= all of them.I think people that write these articles that claim to know everything about medicine but leave out the fact about the effacy of medicines differing for every patient has to know they are lying. If they truly know anything about medicine, how can they not know this when it is so blantantly obvious? [ Post Comment ] Comment #1 posted by FoM on June 19, 2005 at 21:48:09 PT I Believe This is The Article He Mentioned Marijuana Fight is Hypocritical: http://cannabisnews.com/news/thread20868.shtml [ Post Comment ] Post Comment