cannabisnews.com: Stricter Drug Laws Called More Risky










  Stricter Drug Laws Called More Risky

Posted by CN Staff on March 05, 2005 at 09:27:58 PT
By Betsy Powell and Joseph Hall, Staff Reporters 
Source: Toronto Star  

The slaying of four young RCMP officers in rural Alberta is being cited by some as evidence of the dangers marijuana grow ops pose to the public and police and has brought renewed calls for tougher laws and sentences. But what makes grow ops dangerous are Canada's marijuana laws, say many legal and narcotics experts who argue further "criminalization" would only lead to more bloodshed. Public Safety Minister Anne McLellan has said she's prepared to consider tougher penalties and noted legislation before Parliament will require a judge to provide written reasons if he or she decides not to hand out jail time to anyone convicted of running a grow op.
Federal legislation, reintroduced in November, recommends reducing penalties for possession of small amounts of pot while providing harsher sentences for marijuana growers. Anyone convicted of having more than 50 plants could be imprisoned up to 14 years. Debate on Canada's marijuana laws has been renewed following the shooting deaths of the RCMP officers near Rochfort Bridge, Alta., Thursday during an investigation into stolen property and a marijuana grow op. Lawyer Eugene Oscapella, former chairman of the Law Reform Commission of Canada's drug policy group, calls Ottawa's "get tough stance" in the wake of the Alberta tragedy "absurd.""The whole reason grow ops exist is because of prohibition," Oscapella said yesterday. "This is very simple economics and it's really appalling that the governments, not just this but the past governments, profess to have such a sophisticated understanding of economics but can't seem to grasp the fact that they've created this incredibly powerful, lucrative and violent black market in Canada." Tougher drug laws "actually are going to make it far more dangerous for the beat cop," he said, because it is going to drive the trade "more and more out of the hands of non-violent, ma-and-pa producers and into the hands of organized crime," he said from Ottawa. Oscapella and others caution that this week's violence is also an anomaly, with the vast majority of indoor grow ops continuing to be run by small operators for personal use.A senior officer with the OPP's drug squad says that police rarely encounter violence during grow-op busts, facing significant resistance at only about two in every 800 search warrants they carry out.But Det. Staff Sgt. Rick Barnum says that is due almost entirely to the training of drug squad officers, who often storm the operations without any warning to the growers.Quote: ` ...the harsher the penalties, the more likely it is that (more) officers will be killed.' -- Jack Cole, head of LEAPBut Barnum says that of more than 1,800 grow operation raids in Ontario since 2002, some 1,975 weapons have been found."That's more than one per search warrant, and those weapons aren't there for decorations," he says.Barnum, however, says that relaxing marijuana laws will not help get rid of the grow op plague, as much of the marijuana grown in them is destined for lucrative, but illicit markets in the U.S. Jack Cole, a former undercover narcotics agent from New Jersey, who now heads the pro-legalization Law Enforcement Against Prohibition (LEAP), agrees the Alberta tragedy is likely a direct result of laws that make marijuana's growth and use illegal."And creating rigid laws with stiffer penalties because of this situation is a knee-jerk thing that policy makers (will likely) do because they don't seem to know anything else," says Cole, "But when they do that it will only make things worse... the harsher the penalties, the more likely it is that (more) officers will be killed."Cole, who worked 14 years undercover with the New Jersey State Police, says his country's 35-year-old war on drugs and its 1920s alcohol prohibition experience show restrictive policies make the use of banned substances more pervasive and their distribution more lethal."What does prohibition of anything get us? "Prohibiting drugs does not cause less people to use them; we know that," he says.Indeed, Cole says, the U.S. war on drugs, declared by president Richard Nixon in 1970, has coincided with an exponential increase in the number of illegal drug users in America.Federal U.S. data shows the number of people using illegal drugs grew from about 4 million in the late 1960s to more than 37 million in 1999."As soon as we prohibit a drug we create an underground market for that drug," Cole says. "And that underground market is instantly filled with criminals."With the "obscene" profits available to those selling the drugs, motivation to protect their trade by any means possible becomes overwhelming, says Cole. "I'll guarantee you that whole armies of police cannot arrest our way out of this when there's such profits to be made," he says.Prominent Toronto criminal lawyer Paul Copeland says current laws against marijuana growers are "incredibly stupid" and that even more violence would likely occur if they were actually toughened.With files from Les WhittingtonNote: Prohibition causes grow ops, many say - Warnings against knee-jerk responseNewshawk: AfterburnerSource: Toronto Star (CN ON)Author: Betsy Powell and Joseph Hall, Staff ReportersPublished: March 5, 2005Copyright: 2005 The Toronto Star Contact: lettertoed thestar.com Website: http://www.thestar.com/ Related Articles & Web Site:Marketing Marijuana Mythology http://freedomtoexhale.com/gardner.htmFor Years, Everyone Saw This Coming http://cannabisnews.com/news/thread20325.shtmlViolent Front in Drug War Opens on Borderhttp://cannabisnews.com/news/thread20323.shtmlOttawa Aims To Get Tough on MJ Grow-ops http://cannabisnews.com/news/thread20317.shtmlIt's Time for Canada To Legalize Cannabishttp://cannabisnews.com/news/thread20289.shtml 

Home    Comment    Email    Register    Recent Comments    Help





Comment #136 posted by afterburner on March 14, 2005 at 11:58:12 PT
More Evidence: Vested Interests Pursuing Prohib
Following in the footsteps of ineffective regulations that reverse the basic tenet of Justice, "innocent until proven guilty," Solicitor General of British Columbia Rich Coleman announces "brave new forfeiture laws." --CN BC: New Law Targets Property
http://www.mapinc.org/drugnews/v05/n437/a10.html?397
[ Post Comment ]


Comment #135 posted by afterburner on March 13, 2005 at 21:33:24 PT
More Dissenting Voices
RCMP accused of risking civilian lives at farm
Mar. 13, 2005. 06:30 PMMAYERTHORPE, Alta. — Two mechanics are questioning RCMP procedures that had them working in Jim Roszko's Quonset when his whereabouts were still unknown, only hours before he gunned down four Mounties.  [Full Story] http://tinyurl.com/6gl97
[ Post Comment ]


Comment #134 posted by Hope on March 10, 2005 at 10:15:33 PT
Afterburner  Comment 132
They are heroes. No doubt. We can't lose in our quest for true justice and sanity, surely, with such nobility among our ranks.
[ Post Comment ]


Comment #133 posted by FoM on March 10, 2005 at 09:03:03 PT
Vancouver Sun Series: Part I, II & III On Line Now
Part I: http://www.freedomtoexhale.com/rhyme.htmPart II: http://www.freedomtoexhale.com/risinguse.htmPart III: http://www.freedomtoexhale.com/middleway.htmCannabis News Canadian Links: http://www.freedomtoexhale.com/can.htm
[ Post Comment ]


Comment #132 posted by afterburner on March 10, 2005 at 05:34:50 PT
RE Comments #129-130
19 by Paul Hardcastle
http://www.80smusiclyrics.com/artists/paulhardcastle.htm
"None of them received a hero's welcome. None of them received a heroes welcome, none of them, none of them"But they continue to serve their country fighting against the abuses of this awful holy war, known as the War on *Some* Drugs/Medicines/Plants (mainly cannabis/"marijuana").
[ Post Comment ]


Comment #131 posted by FoM on March 09, 2005 at 23:21:33 PT
Related Article from The Toronto Star
Callous Activists Exploit MassacreMarch 10, 2004Tragedies all too often draw out activists who callously use the events to push their own political agendas. Sadly, the murder of four Mounties in Alberta last week has been no exception. First, pro-gun proponents say the shooting of the four RCMP officers by James Roszko at his Mayerthorpe-area farm proves the controversial and costly federal gun registry is not working and should be scrapped.Second, anti-marijuana groups argue the bloody ambush shows the danger of grow ops and the need for the government to beef up drug laws. Third, and not to be outdone, the pro-marijuana crowd claims this sort of tragedy is bound to happen when laws force drugs underground. It also claims the killings bolster the argument that pot should be legalized. In fact, they are all wrong. And all three lobbies should be ashamed they are opportunistically using the horrific deaths of four policemen at the hands of a deeply disturbed assailant to advance their political agendas. There can be little doubt now that 46-year-old Roszko, who apparently committed suicide after gunning down the RCMP officers, was extremely troubled. He had a long and violent criminal history that included a prison sentence for sexually assaulting a teenaged boy. His love of guns and hatred of police were well known around Mayerthorpe. Many residents of the area talk of how they were afraid simply to be near him. His own father has described him as "a wicked devil."All evidence suggests Roszko was a ticking time bomb who could have gone off over a parking ticket or a routine traffic stop. So what do the reprehensible acts of one unstable man have to do with marijuana laws and the gun registry? Despite what the lobbies would have us believe, not very much.Initial reports suggested this was a marijuana grow operation bust gone wrong. In fact, police had gone onto Roszko's land to seize property when they discovered evidence of stolen vehicles and parts, as well as marijuana plants. Even RCMP Commissioner Giuliano Zaccardelli, who quickly seized on the drug angle as the cause of the confrontation, has had to back down as details of Roszko's volatile past have come out. Marijuana lobbies, both pro and con, should do likewise. Similarly, one violent incident should not be allowed to undo the gun registry. Despite huge cost overruns, there is ample evidence the registry is working. Nearly 90 per cent of guns in Canada are now registered. Police around the country consult the database nearly 2,000 times a day and the vast majority of police chiefs support the registry. It is unclear if Roszko's guns were registered. But no one ever said the database would eliminate all violent crime. And for every heinous act like last week's police killings, how many more tragedies has the gun registry averted?No law will ever prevent all evil. And this was clearly just that — the actions of a violent, sick man. That's why the gun and drug lobbies should be taken to task for exploiting this tragedy to further their own goals.Canadians should stop pointing fingers and concentrate on the task of mourning the deaths of four young officers cut down in their prime.Copyright: 2005 The Toronto Star 
[ Post Comment ]


Comment #130 posted by Hope on March 09, 2005 at 21:50:57 PT
ekim
Thank you.I appreciate that we have people like you with us in this struggle.I also just appreciate that you and other veterans here, Kap, Siege, Stick, HerbDoc, and all the others, who have served, fought and laid their lives on the line, literally, to try and insure that we could all live free of tyranny.You all deserve so much respect. I, for one, do respect what you have done, what you have given, and how thoughtful and reasoning you are.Thank you.
[ Post Comment ]


Comment #129 posted by ekim on March 09, 2005 at 21:26:15 PT
AB do you know where Mount Allison University is
With the "obscene" profits available to those selling the drugs, motivation to protect their trade by any means possible becomes overwhelming, says Cole. "I'll guarantee you that whole armies of police cannot arrest our way out of this when there's such profits to be made," he says.i can still remember the Nuns that taught us from 3rd to the 8th. they said communism you can tell -- when you are asked to turn in your parents. now i can not say when i heard that but i did not give it much thought.i go to high school and get out in 66 VN was kicken. so soon i was on my way over the pond soon enough. spent a year and went back for a half a one to boot. ya we were their doen a good turn for the people so they could speak their minds and not be made to turn in their parents.i can still feel the hair raise when i think of the nite i was gathering signatures for our PRA petition allowing adult personal use and a few plants. i was standing in between two lines of people going in to a outdoor festival with live music and food and drinks. this guy yells out to me hey where do you work as i should be cked for drug use, i asked him what he did for a living and he said he was a Dare officer so i said my job was to get rid of his. my history is bad who was it that said we will not shoot a bullet we will work with in, i seem to think of a guy that was banging his shoe.so the old sisters of St Joe told us to beware of being asked to turn in our parents cause that was communism, i go away for a year and a half to make sure this ism will not appear here. so i can remain free and so can our kids. but wait i have to pee in a bucket to get that job--and my taxes are used to fund a officer of the law that wants my kid to turn me in. gas is going out of sight. where is the head Democrat this NV guy Mr Reid is it. what is the plan --where is the leadership you know how valuable tax money is it is a crime to let so much go to the black market. The complete lack of knowledge of how many gals of oil a acre- or tonnage of fiber - or nutritious value of the Hemp plant is complete failure to plan for the future of our country. and to make this more convoluted the real communist countries are using the Hemp plant and selling it to US.
http://www.leap.cc/events
[ Post Comment ]


Comment #128 posted by afterburner on March 09, 2005 at 20:26:22 PT
The Government and the Police Wanted a Cakewalk
Some Canadians, and even Lawyer Alan Young, have been critical of anti-prohibitionists for blaming the Alberta tragedy of 4 Mounties killed on prohibition. Maybe, that characterization was a bit overstated, but the government and the RCMP are responsible for dragging the debate into the gutter with their rabid attack on "grow-ops" before all the facts were in press. The anti-prohibitionists rightly defended themselves and their community against the nasty calls for greater penalties against grow-ops. For too long the government and the police have monopolized the media with their exaggerated scare tactics. Now, they don't like it when the victims of their vicious pogrom refuse to knuckle under and take their licks. Most cannabis activists have expressed sympathy for the families of the slain Mounties, but refuse to let the government and the police have a free ride with their misleading propaganda.
[ Post Comment ]


Comment #127 posted by FoM on March 09, 2005 at 15:13:17 PT
Vancouver Sun Four Part Series
Just a note. I went ahead and put the first two parts on my Canadian Links Page. I will had the last two when they become available. Here's the link.http://www.freedomtoexhale.com/can.htm
[ Post Comment ]


Comment #126 posted by ekim on March 09, 2005 at 12:07:08 PT
Mar 10 05 Mount Allison University 08:00 AM 
Mar 10 05 Mount Allison University 08:00 AM Alison Myrden Sackville New Brunswick Canada 
 Speaker Alison Myrden will speak to selected classes of the Mount Allison University and members of the local media about the failures of drug prohibition. 
http://www.leap.cc/events
[ Post Comment ]


Comment #125 posted by FoM on March 09, 2005 at 12:03:40 PT
Related Article from MacCleans.ca
Blame It On 'Prohibition'Ken MacQueenMarch 09, 2005For some readers of Cannabis Culture Magazine, the Vancouver-based international journal for pot users and growers, the deaths of four RCMP officers was a trauma of another sort. "For anyone that grows their own, this is a total tragedy," said one contributor to the magazine's online forum. "Shit they'll start sending the army in now!" Another went so far as to call James Roszko, the dead gunman, a martyr. "I will pray for him for every day of the rest of my life."  Such inflammatory responses were the minority, even on a site not noted for sympathy toward police. "We are all victims together in this drug war, including the families of the people who died today," wrote someone under the pseudonym Sinshune. "The law is the enemy of both sides, our enemy because it threatens jail for us, and the enemy of the police who are forced to risk their lives to uphold it." Some said the deaths will hurt the cause of legalization, others that they prove the futility of pot laws. "The reason pot is worth more than its weight in gold is because of prohibition, this makes prohibition look bad," wrote one.The deaths have shaken many British Columbians who, to the frustration of police, often take a benign view of an industry estimated to generate more than $6 billion a year in the province. The number of B.C. grow ops is estimated at 15,000 -- ranging from residential mortgage-helpers to sophisticated gang-run operations. Provincial Solicitor General Rich Coleman, a former RCMP member, urged the federal government to stiffen penalties for growers. Courts, however, rarely impose existing penalties. Almost 60 per cent of convicted growers in B.C. received neither jail time nor a fine, according to sentencing statistics between 2002 and 2004. In Vancouver, 83 per cent escaped with only probation or a conditional sentence served at home.The B.C. Civil Liberties Association, an advocate for decriminalization, called it "opportunistic, illogical and hysterical" to step up the war on drugs after last week's killings. "Make no mistake," said association president John Russell. "It is the prohibition of marijuana that caused this tragedy." 
 
Copyright by Rogers Media Inc.
 
http://www.macleans.ca/topstories/politics/article.jsp?content=20050314_101735_101735
[ Post Comment ]


Comment #124 posted by afterburner on March 09, 2005 at 00:35:30 PT
Excellent Media Contact List, Courtesy, Tim Meehan
"Also, I would encourage everyone to send a letter regarding this to 
every 
media outlet in Canada. Below is a list courtesy of the Media Awareness 
Project. http://www.norml.ca/forum//viewtopic.php?topic=314&forum=7"Many stories on this tragic incident are available through Google News: http://news.google.ca/news?hl=en&ned=ca&q=Canada+marijuana&ie=UTF- 
8&scoring=d "For once, show the police that we aren't the enemy. "Thank you in advance, "-Tim Meehan 
NORML Canada 
tim norml.ca / www.norml.ca 
+1 613 230 1937 "
[ Post Comment ]


Comment #123 posted by FoM on March 08, 2005 at 19:27:36 PT
Related Article
Residents Wonder Whether RCMP Killer Had Help Getting Back To Crime SceneMarch 8, 2005Excerpt from Article:Around town, many seem to accept Roszko played a part in some kind of so-called chop shop for car parts.But there is less agreement about the marijuana plants.Jerry Bala said he knew that Roszko had "buddies who helped him with all that dope."But Todd and Shelly, who say they know who deals marijuana in town, said they're convinced Roszko was at least not involved in a local drug scene."He was more of a cowboy at all the parties," said Todd. "He was always dead against marijuana."http://www.macleans.ca/topstories/news/shownews.jsp?content=n030885A
[ Post Comment ]


Comment #122 posted by FoM on March 08, 2005 at 19:14:36 PT
afterburner
We are watching News World International and they showed the funeral for the one Officer. It was very sad. Then they talked about Roszko. First of all they never mentioned a grow op but they mentioned his criminal record going back into the 70s. He was charged 36 times and convicted only 12. I think those numbers are right. They knew he was violent and nothing was ever done. Why not? Down here he wouldn't have been out of jail very long with all those charges.
[ Post Comment ]


Comment #121 posted by afterburner on March 08, 2005 at 16:59:13 PT
Where Was the RCMP Supervision?
Critics question RCMP decisions in Roszko case - 
 
CTV.ca News Staff - 
 
Updated: Tue. Mar. 8 2005 6:44 AM ET http://tinyurl.com/6cccy
[ Post Comment ]


Comment #120 posted by afterburner on March 08, 2005 at 16:48:25 PT
Read This, Lurkers!
We're not all lunatics, pot growers protest 
by Stewart Hunter, Canwest News Service (08 Mar, 2005) Marijuana activists say they feel maligned by Alberta man's killing of police officers http://www.cannabisculture.com/articles/4219.html
 
[ Post Comment ]


Comment #119 posted by afterburner on March 08, 2005 at 16:43:41 PT
The Story That Almost Was Lost in the Shuffle 
Medpot Activist Challenges Marijuana Prohibition 
by Kirk Tousaw (07 Mar, 2005) Michelle Kubby argues against the Hitzig decision [results from the BC Supreme Court] http://www.cannabisculture.com/articles/4214.html
[ Post Comment ]


Comment #118 posted by FoM on March 08, 2005 at 16:40:21 PT
News World International
This is just a comment about news. We tried to tolerate watching MSNBC and CNN and just decided to change the channel because nothing news worthy was being shown. We turned on NWI on Channel 366 on Direct TV. The first thing we saw was the issue of how they want to drug test for being an impaired driver. The news took it's time and showed both sides. Now we are watching a piece on Amsterdam. I hope other Americans that have Direct TV give NWI a chance. It is a plain and simple news service but I learn from this news. That's all for now!
[ Post Comment ]


Comment #117 posted by afterburner on March 08, 2005 at 16:32:35 PT
Toronto Sun Continues to Drool
CN ON: Editorial: Silence Is The Only Crime 
(08 Mar 2005) Toronto Sun Ontario http://www.mapinc.org/newscc/v05/n398/a11.html?397Excerpts:"Ever since a gun-toting madman murdered four young RCMP constables in cold blood last week before taking his own life, the cry from our chattering classes has been relentless. "Now is not the time, we're told, to discuss issues like cracking down on marijuana grow ops..."But millions of Canadians are rightly asking how many tragedies it will take before the feds establish mandatory minimum sentences for the operators of grow ops"Shame on you, Toronto Sun, for continuing to trumpet a tenuous link to grow ops when the latest facts have shown that the warrant was for stolen car-parts and repossession of an unpaid leased truck, not a lone-wolf's "grow-op." Your paper is certainly not known for its sensitive treatment of issues. "Vengeance is mine, sayeth the Lord," not yours, Toronto Sun.
[ Post Comment ]


Comment #116 posted by global_warming on March 08, 2005 at 16:13:50 PT
Some Thoughts
Luk 12:52 For from henceforth there shall be five in one house divided, three against two, and two against three. Luk 12:53 The father shall be divided against the son, and the son against the father; the mother against the daughter, and the daughter against the mother; the mother in law against her daughter in law, and the daughter in law against her mother in law. Luk 12:54 And he said also to the people, When ye see a cloud rise out of the west, straightway ye say, There cometh a shower; and so it is. Luk 12:55 And when ye see the south wind blow, ye say, There will be heat; and it cometh to pass. Luk 12:56 Ye hypocrites, ye can discern the face of the sky and of the earth; but how is it that ye do not discern this time? Luk 12:57 Yea, and why even of yourselves judge ye not what is right? Luk 12:58 When thou goest with thine adversary to the magistrate, as thou art in the way, give diligence that thou mayest be delivered from him; lest he hale thee to the judge, and the judge deliver thee to the officer, and the officer cast thee into prison. Luk 12:59 I tell thee, thou shalt not depart thence, till thou hast paid the very last mite. -----------------Jesus has brought a sword that will divide us, his sword is not an angry sword, that is not covered with our blood, it is a sword that marks the line between those that choose some controlled existence, against those that see the miracle of life and existence as spiritually free entities.Our short life, is very insignificant in the frame of this aged universe, and with each breath, should we be overly concerned about some monetary profit, or should our focus be on our eternal place in this unexplained reality.gw
[ Post Comment ]


Comment #115 posted by afterburner on March 08, 2005 at 16:04:36 PT
Maybe This Story *Is* Canada's Tipping Point
Top cop apologizes for misleading claims in cop killer case by Reverend Damuzi (08 Mar, 2005) 
Five days after the deaths of four RCMP officers during an auto-part theft investigation, officials are admitting that they made a mistake when they blamed the deaths on pot. F U L L S T O R Y http://www.cannabisculture.com/articles/4217.htmlWho would have thought that RCMP Commissioner Guiliano Zaccardelli would apologize or that MP Randy White would have second thoughts? Amazing! Now, if Deputy Prime Minister Anne McLellan would just apologize, ...
[ Post Comment ]

 


Comment #114 posted by FoM on March 08, 2005 at 12:40:28 PT

runruff
I think you made a very wise decision. Police were nice when I was young but not anymore. We don't have a gun in our house either. I don't like them. I was raised not to be interested in guns so I'm not and for me that's the best way.
[ Post Comment ]


 


Comment #113 posted by runruff on March 08, 2005 at 12:34:54 PT:

Sorry to be redundant.
Most of you have heard this from me before.
I have looked straite down the barrow of 40 automatic weapons pointed at me by DEA agents. They were here to confiscate my crop of five pounds of herb. Even If I was not recovering from open heart sergery and three eye surgeries, I would not have dreamed of fighting back with these well trained well equiped and willng killers. They surrounded my house and all rushed in shouting, "Hands up don't move,don't move"! I just knew that one false move and I'd be a dead man. I don't own a gun or even a sling shot. But these guys will shoot without compunction. Thank God I'm still here to tell about this and God willing I may even live long enough to see their job become obsolete.namaste
[ Post Comment ]


 


Comment #112 posted by FoM on March 08, 2005 at 12:17:04 PT

Dr Ganj 
Apology accepted. I know you're a good guy and I thought maybe you were just so fired up you had to vent.
[ Post Comment ]


 


Comment #111 posted by Dr Ganj on March 08, 2005 at 12:06:19 PT

Violence During Prohibition
FoM-I apologize for that last post of mine. I was intoxicated, and mad, and that is not a good combination.
My deep loathe of the police is well known throughout many of my previous posts. I want to point out that although I might think these thoughts, I wouldn't in fact act upon them. Let's all keep in mind, when a substance is made illegal, as was alcohol from 1920-1933 in the U.S., it created an underground market that was filled with corruption, and violence. 
With the deaths of the four RCMP's, we might never really know if the cops went there to bust him on a non drug related warrant, and the marijuana being grown was ancillary to the bust. The media of course, will always play up the marijuana aspect of this, as they always have.
There are going to be two possible results from this incident in Canada. (1), A push for harsher penalties for grow operations, or (2) The realization that losing the lives of numerous officers over a plant is just not worth it. 
Canada has the ability to decide what is more important: Causing further prohibition which will undoubtedly lead to more violence and the deaths of more RCMP's conducting cannabis raids. Or, legalizing cannabis making it similar to wheat where only bugs are killed during the harvest. 
There will be considerable pressure from the U.S. for Canada to continue its quest to eradicate a plant that can never be eradicated.
We as a society can now look back on the U.S. prohibition of alcohol knowing full well it was a failed experiment. In the future, when marijuana is just as legal as broccoli, we will look back on this failed prohibition of marijuana in a similar way.
Let us hope Canada will have the sense to change their current marijuana laws, rather than wait for more innocent people to die over a beautiful plant.
[ Post Comment ]


 


Comment #110 posted by goneposthole on March 08, 2005 at 11:24:29 PT

Dr. Ganj, gunslinger
the stakes are high and it's high noon at the OK Corral.I think I'd be a thinkin' twice thar, pawdner, when those Chang Wang types come a bustin' through the doory woory; you better hope you ain't there to witness the carnage they unleash. You really don't want to see it. May those RCMPs rest in peace. give it a rest, dr. ganj.
[ Post Comment ]


 


Comment #109 posted by FoM on March 08, 2005 at 09:24:46 PT

ngeo 
Thank you. I make decisions on CNews with no guidance or help from anyone. It is a responsibility I take very seriously. The times we are living in are the most perilous of my life time and I've been around a while. Fear, sorrow, anger, despair seem to be the rules of the day. We need hope. We need to see an end somewhere down the line. I will keep doing my best to do the right thing but I know I won't always know what the right thing actually is.
[ Post Comment ]


 


Comment #108 posted by Richard Paul Zuckerm on March 08, 2005 at 09:20:44 PT:

YOU GET WHAT YOU VOTE FOR!!!
The Marijuana laws and gun control laws are part of a pogram of gradual GOVERNMENT SUPREMACY. Those cops should not have had any reason to enter that property, ab initio!! There should not be a law against growing Cannabis, precisely for the reasons expressed in State v. Mallan, 950 P.2d 178, 208-209, 218-219 (Hawaii 1998)(Dissenting opinion by Justice Levinson); www.judgesagainstthedrugwar.org; www.sumeria.net/politics/shadv3.html; www.jackherer.com [click on THE EMPEROR WEARS NO CLOTHES at the top of the Web page]. YOU GET WHAT YOU VOTE FOR!! IF YOU VOTE FOR GLOBALISTS WHOSE ONLY INTERESTS ARE FURTHERING THE CORPORATISTS, THEN EXPECT MORE OF THIS "DRUG WAR" AGAINST YOUR OWN NEIGHBORS AND TAXATION!!!Richard Paul Zuckerman, Box 159, Metuchen, N.J., 08840-0159,(Cell)(908)403-6990, paid subscriber to: Cannabis Culture Magazine, High Times Magazine, member of NORML.
[ Post Comment ]


 


Comment #107 posted by ngeo on March 08, 2005 at 08:47:18 PT:

You are right FoM
to leave Dr. Ganj's comment on, and also right that violence doesn't solve anything, which Dr. Ganj needs to know. When you are confronted with violence it is natural, and in some cases necessary for your own survival, to fight against it. But when you are dealing with violent potential in the form of the 'public authority' it takes strength within yourself to hold back, to 'turn the other cheek'. That shows the authority your strength and also your good intent, and makes him question his own intent. The descendants of slaves in the South protested non-violently and made their point because they were right. The freedom for cannabis movement is also right, because cannabis prohibition is unjust. Nature (God, if you will) evolves in the direction of increasing harmony, but harmony is never guaranteed. Christianity grew because Jesus was on the right side, and people eventually realized it, but the golden rule will always be under attack, like it is now, in a time of crisis. (Enough theology - just don't let them grind you down!) 
[ Post Comment ]


 


Comment #106 posted by FoM on March 08, 2005 at 06:37:03 PT

kaptinemo
Thank you. I saw Dr.Ganj comment and I didn't know if I should remove it. Sometimes doing CNews is so darn hard for me. I don't believe violence solves anything.
[ Post Comment ]


 


Comment #105 posted by kaptinemo on March 08, 2005 at 05:46:55 PT:

Dr. Ganj, why give them any incentive?
Whatever the origins of your feelings towards the police, by making that statement public IN A PLACE THEY READ DAILY you negate all that has been said here about reformers wanting peaceful change. This is *exactly* the kind of statement our opponents latch on like terriers do to its prey. Never mind that most of us here were as shocked and horrified at what happened; the antis will point to your statement out of the vast majority of comments as proof they were right about us all along. I've said it before and it bears repeating: Never, ever hand an idiot with an empty weapon a fresh magazine. By providing our opponents with 'ammunition' like that, it's seen as nullifying our stance on the whole rationale for peaceful change.I have my own, intensely personal reasons for disliking Federal 'authorities' for the casual way they reduced me to poverty and 4 long years of scraping at the edge of survival. Those years are burned into my brain with a white hot iron. To revisit those years in memory is to re-awaken a fury that, were it radiation, would burn someone down in a heartbeat. But it's said that 'the best vengeance is living well', and in my book that means our eventual victory over prohibition...and prohibitionists. But we won't achieve that by playing into their hands.

[ Post Comment ]


 


Comment #104 posted by Dr Ganj on March 07, 2005 at 22:43:48 PT

4 dead porkers in Canada
I've always thought about killing cops if they came to bust me in my growroom. I hate the police, and what they represent. What I do in my home is my business, and if they don't like it, then get ready for a shower of lead, and let's find out together if there's a hereafter....

[ Post Comment ]


 


Comment #103 posted by Hope on March 07, 2005 at 22:39:04 PT

Wonderful, BGreen!
I'm so happy!Thanks for the good news and I wish you so much success with your new endeavor!Halleleuja!
[ Post Comment ]


 


Comment #102 posted by FoM on March 07, 2005 at 22:00:35 PT

 BGreen 
I'm so happy for you. I wondered how it was going. How about some words from one of my favorite Neil Young Song's from Greendale called Bandit.BANDITTurning the pages of this old bookSeems familiar, it may be worth a second lookWrapping up dope in a paper bagTalking to yourself taking a dragWhat does it matter the things you sayThey'll never hear it anywayGotta get past the negative thingsLawyers and business, you get what you bringSomeday you'll find everything you looking for.Someday you'll find everything you looking for.Good Luck to you and may this be everything you are looking for!
[ Post Comment ]


 


Comment #101 posted by BGreen on March 07, 2005 at 21:51:19 PT

Hope and FoM
This is totally off topic but I wanted to share this with you.One month to the day after I wrote about my stress and career problems, I just got hired by another band.John Lennon hoped the Beatles had passed the audition but the Reverend Bud Green Passed The Audition!I'm backing up a VERY talented young female singer who just might help take me to the top with her.I've been through a month of hell but I'm feeling so much better now.I couldn't wait to get home and share the news with you because you cared about me when I was down.Thank you so much!The Reverend Bud Green
[ Post Comment ]


 


Comment #100 posted by FoM on March 07, 2005 at 19:55:24 PT

Hope
I think I can answer that for you. You know how we have the AP and Reuters. That article is by the Canadian Press so it might wind up on many different news sites. 
[ Post Comment ]


 


Comment #99 posted by Hope on March 07, 2005 at 19:50:39 PT

How well read is MacCleans in Canada?
Does it have a large readership?
[ Post Comment ]


 


Comment #98 posted by FoM on March 07, 2005 at 19:26:31 PT

 ngeo
It is good news. DrugWarRant has a link to this article on his site so I thought it would be good to keep this news right here where it will be read by many people.http://www.drugwarrant.com/
[ Post Comment ]


 


Comment #97 posted by ngeo on March 07, 2005 at 19:23:00 PT:

good news
You beat me to it, FoM - I had the article copied and ready to paste. It is good to see this especially from Canadian Press. On the NORML Canada forum someone wondered whether this might be the 'Valentine's Day Massacre' for cannabis prohibition, an eye-opener for the people who haven't thought about it much. I sure hope that turns out to be true.
[ Post Comment ]



 


Comment #96 posted by FoM on March 07, 2005 at 14:01:02 PT

MacLeans.ca Poll: Legalizing Marijuana
Do you think legalizing marijuana would force organized crime out of the pot trafficking business? Current Results:  Yes -- 63%  No -- 39%Please Vote: http://www.macleans.ca/topstories/politics/news/shownews.jsp?content=n030729A
[ Post Comment ]



 


Comment #95 posted by FoM on March 07, 2005 at 13:54:30 PT

CP: Grow-ops Not The Culprit in RCMP Shooting
Grow-ops Not The Culprit in RCMP Shooting Despite Initial Finger-PointingLee-Anne GoodmanMarch 7, 2005 (CP) - From the first word of the fatal shootings of four RCMP officers in rural Alberta last week, the spotlight was turned on marijuana grow-ops - the dangers they posed, the tougher laws needed to combat them.Within hours, politicians, police, pot activists and even the father of killer James Roszko pointed both to marijuana itself and the illegal trade in the drug as a major player in the chain of events. 
RCMP officials said from the outset that their men were killed in a grow-op raid. William Roszko said his son was never the same after he started smoking "that crazy dope" as a teenager. The Marijuana Party said the shootings underscored the need to legalize pot and wipe out the black market. Police and some politicians argued just the opposite, saying the tragedy proved that any move to legalize weed was madness.It now appears the focus on grow-ups was misplaced."It was shameful and disrespectful both on the side of the state and on the side of the activists, who felt they had to respond to the state," said Alan Young, a lawyer and longtime proponent of legalizing marijuana."Four police officers were dead and it was alarming to see it turn into a propaganda play right off the bat. There is really nothing about this case that should cause someone to develop public policy one way or the other. This case is about how to deal with psychopathic people who have long histories with the law."Young isn't alone in his distaste. Letters to newspapers and callers to TV and radio shows buzzed Monday along similar lines.It now appears growing marijuana was only one of the problems that vexed Roszko.Police have backed down from original claims that the 46-year-old convicted pedophile with a long history of violence and a high-powered assault weapon had a substantial grow-op on his residence, saying they found "several brand-new trucks in pieces" in a metal shed on the property and found evidence of a pot-growing operation that included "20 mature marijuana plants."By all accounts, Roszko was a ticking time bomb with a hatred of police and a history of mental illness that went unchecked despite the entire town of Mayerthorpe, Alta., living in terror of him.That didn't stop the New York Times from weighing in on Sunday and painting the shootings as almost entirely grow-op-related.The Times quoted Leigh H. Winchell, special agent in charge for U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement in Seattle, as saying the killings in Alberta last week were stark evidence of "how much money is involved and the lengths to which these criminals are willing to go to protect it."He added: "It's a very dark day for all of us."Bonnie Burstow, a senior lecturer at the Ontario Institute for Studies in Education who specializes in drug policy, calls that kind of reaction from police ironic."It was anti-drug hysteria at play in the hours and days after the shootings, or what I should say is anti-drug-not-sanctioned-by-the-state hysteria," said Burstow."Because let's face it: there's no bigger pusher than the state. There are far more dangerous and mind-altering drugs than marijuana being pushed on us every day by huge pharmaceutical companies, with the blessings of our doctors and the state. And no one's raiding the drug companies."Ottawa lawyer Eugene Oscapella, one of the founders of the Canadian Foundation for Drug Policy, fears some dangerous repercussions as a result of the swift finger-pointing at marijuana grow-ops last week."You are going to see more violent raids now as police point to what happened in Alberta as proof that the people operating grow-ops are armed and dangerous and possibly crazy," he said."That may lead to the militarization of the illegal drug trade - police have bigger weapons and use more violent tactics, so growers may then arm themselves. And all the state really has to do to end this insanity is get rid of the lucrative black market that encourages large grow-ops. The economies of prohibition are pretty plain - you don't have to be a brilliant economist to get this." 
 
Copyright by Rogers Media Inc. 
http://www.macleans.ca/topstories/politics/news/shownews.jsp?content=n030729A
[ Post Comment ]




 


Comment #94 posted by FoM on March 07, 2005 at 11:23:22 PT

News Article from Snipped Source
Marijuana Reform Must Go Further
 
 
National Post Monday, March 07, 2005  
In the wake of last week's tragedy in Alberta, some are calling on the federal government to scrap its stalled marijuana reform legislation, which would decriminalize possession of small amounts of the substance. Such calls should be rejected. If anything, the event shows that drug reform must go further.In Thursday's quadruple murder, a known criminal shot four RCMP officers while they were investigating his property northwest of Edmonton, a property whose uses included a small marijuana grow-op. Nothing written here or elsewhere can even partly mitigate the man's brutal act -- that much is obvious. Nevertheless, Canadians must ask themselves whether one of the policies that James Roszko was violating -- drug prohibition, particularly as applied to marijuana -- is one that police officers should be risking their lives to enforce. The answer, as we see it, is no.The marijuana industry attracts men like James Roszko not because there is anything intrinsically evil about pot, but because it is an illegal substance that, by definition, only criminals are in a position to provide for consumers. As with alcohol prohibition in the United States, the effect of criminalizing marijuana has been to create a business opportunity for well-armed thugs.This would not be a reason to question current policy if the legal campaign against marijuana were worth the cost. After all, police put their lives on the line all the time when they patrol our inner cities or cruise our highways -- yet we accept those risks because we recognize they are part of the price of safe cities and streets. But in the case of pot, criminalization has been a failure: Marijuana is still freely available at a low price to most high school students. Indeed, it is so prevalent that most police simply look the other way when they see it being smoked.Moreover, it is not clear why this prevalence should overly alarm us. Marijuana is not addictive, nor generally criminogenic. And while studies have linked long-term pot use to cardiovascular impairments and decreased cognitive function, the threat to human health is minuscule compared with that posed by alcohol and tobacco -- as well as, for that matter, fast food, motorcycles, double-diamond ski trails and unprotected sex. The simple truth is that the war on drugs is far more deadly than drugs themselves. As has been noted elsewhere, the number of officers who died on Thursday exceeded -- by four -- the total number of people known to medical science to have died from a marijuana overdose, ever.This brings us to the marijuana reform legislation being considered by our government. We have argued in this space before that marijuana should be legalized, and that it should become a government-regulated substance like alcohol and tobacco. Because these latter substances are legal, there is little attraction for criminals -- since they cannot earn the enormous premiums associated with contraband. RCMP officers do not die raiding tobacco grow-ops or Quonset huts full of bootlegging stills. The same should be true of marijuana.Snipped:Complete Article: http://www.canada.com/national/nationalpost/news/comment/story.html?id=c227408d-18f7-41d2-a8ba-b895740c83ae
[ Post Comment ]




 


Comment #93 posted by FoM on March 06, 2005 at 20:19:24 PT

Breeze
Ah heck your still a youngin' LOL! You're welcome and keep on keepin on!
[ Post Comment ]




 


Comment #92 posted by FoM on March 06, 2005 at 20:15:28 PT

ngeo 
I appreciate your comment. I have a couple friends I talk to in email from Canada and I am on the ccc list but I only read and don't comment on Canadian issues. I learn so much from reading what Canadians have to say. You are a good people and we care for your freedom. Stand strong and proud so you won't have to fight like we've had to fight down here. Cannabis is a universal issue. 
[ Post Comment ]




 


Comment #91 posted by breeze on March 06, 2005 at 19:30:15 PT

Global_Warming - Hope - FOM
Thank you for your comments, they are truly appreciated! You three, and everyone else that posts on this board are very special people and excellent writers! Though I may not always send praises, or even thanks- please don't feel that I am not grateful for your values and compassion- I truly am.I am almost 40 years old- I don't look it {even people who know me tell me- family as well}, and now I realize that I don't speak or write like I am my age either! LOL- just kidding...
 
The reason that I focused on what happened to me way back in high school, in that time period, the Reagans were in the White House, and Nancy was touting her little campaign called DARE just as I was graduating.High school was and still remains one of the most difficult times in most people's life. It is a time of adjusting in how we "fit" in the real world- and often what happens AFTER high school changes everything that we thought we knew in school. I hope that I portrayed how people are subjected to a type of mind control during those formulative years- and I watched evidence of this tonight on 60 minutes after writing my thesis-LOL. It was about a teen who stole a car, taken into jail to be booked, and then took one of the booking officers handguns and shot three policemen on the way outside where he took a patrol car as his trophy and went on another wild ride. They attributed his behaviour to a very violent video game. The makers and even distributors of the video game are being sued for teaching the kid how to commit such a heinous act. But the makers of the game, who have made billions of dollars on its sales, defend their position by stating that millions of people have played the game and none have commited the acts this kid did. In the game, the main character kills people and commits various illegal acts to score points. It is obviously a VERY anti-social type of video game. A doctor came on the show to demonstrate how the part of the brain that forsees and predicts future consequences of ones actions, is just developing- and this part of the brain doesn't fully develop until the body is into its twenties. I suppose he was trying to say that we cannot associate reality from fantasy until we are old enough to remember regret.I hadn't heard of this story until tonight. If the kid had said he had used cannabis and THEN did the things because he was influenced by cannabis- then I am SURE we would have ALL heard about it long before now- but instead the influence was a video game, in that he was apparently addicted to playing it, night and day. I have known individuals who were influenced by witnessing violent acts, and mimic'd the moves they had seen. I remember this from early childhood- when cartoons were a major form of entertainment in my neck of the woods. There were a number of television shows that showed children kicking an adult in the shin- and it was supposedly comical to see the adult hopping around holding the forefront of their lower leg and crying. Kids in my school did this to each other all of the time, sometimes just for the heck of it. It is a very painful experience- but I soon realized where the kids got the idea to do it- cartoons and childrens programs. Doesn't it seem that the worst the behaviour, the quicker the kids pick up on it and try it themselves?
It seems that if something is viewed as disturbing or wrong, kids pick right up on it and DO the very thing that their being told not to do. 
[ Post Comment ]




 


Comment #90 posted by ngeo on March 06, 2005 at 19:14:01 PT:

Tragic
What happened in northern Alberta is a tragedy. After reading all the reports, I am feeling somewhat sorry for the killer as well as for the young Mounties he killed. All of them got caught up in something they couldn't control. Naturally the 'outside world' uses the story for their own devices - on both sides. But to me it is a human story in a tragic time on Earth. The story isn't just about a 'nutcase' or a 'grow op'. It is about living and trying to be free at a time when freedom is preached but not practised. I think the killer and the Mounties were playing a part in a story that is about freedom. Many people in the north want to 'live free or die'. I lived north of Whitecourt in the Peace River country for a few years. It is still a frontier. There are people who consider any representative of a distant authority to be a kind of enemy. Life there has little connection to city life. Freedom is risky, and it can end badly. It is somehow natural that cannabis was involved in this bad ending (although it hasn't ended yet). I believe cannabis prohibition is about curtailing freedom of thought. Free thought is risky, particularly when many people choose security over freedom and view those who choose freedom as outlaws. But you have to be on the side of freedom when the 'security state' is making such a mess of 'modern' life. I believe at the root, those who run our lives fear the thought that cannabis creates. But in the Charter of Rights and Freedoms, freedom of thought is specifically guaranteed - Section 2(b). I don't know how any court including the Supreme Court could argue that cannabis prohibition does not prohibit the thought that cannabis creates. It is an infringement on a guaranteed freedom. And cannabis prohibition is not 'demonstrably justified' (the legal test of constitutionality) in a free and democratic society. In other words, no matter what the courts say, cannabis prohibition is unconstitutional - and unjust. I have no idea why this challenge was not made as soon as the Charter came into effect. I believe the lawyers made a mistake choosing Section 7 for their case. (I also read that there is a case to be made that the cannabis prohibition laws, once struck down, are no longer in effect, no matter that the judge in the Hitzig case 'resurrected' them.) Now I am way off the subject, but it all gets down to freedom. This tragedy in northern Alberta has at least put the cannabis debate on the front burner, and freedom, with its risks, is in the story. Maybe that will be the good that it does. I am beginning to think the Toronto Star is the best corporate media friend cannabis freedom has. May its readership increase and may it never be swallowed. Thank God for the internet - and for the Cannabis News website. I read your stories all the time. May your readership also increase and you never be swallowed!
[ Post Comment ]




 


Comment #89 posted by Hope on March 06, 2005 at 18:57:22 PT

Global Warming
I agree with FoM. Thoughts shared by a weary, but strong spirit.Thank you. 
[ Post Comment ]




 


Comment #88 posted by FoM on March 06, 2005 at 18:43:09 PT

global_warming 
Thank you!
[ Post Comment ]




 


Comment #87 posted by global_warming on March 06, 2005 at 18:26:13 PT

The Fight
Goodness and TruthWill overcome this profitable madness,As you and I stand,And all these good people,This darkness, will pass,Like those empires that are shrouded,By the mists that hide mans histories,There is a knot in this worlds heart,It manifests with a clenched fist,With a gun, with intel,The "true" enemies of this world,Will be brought to justice.It is those that have to die,Those that are standing those lines,Ready to die, because they have been told,The axis of "evil" requires their sacrifice.
[ Post Comment ]




 


Comment #86 posted by FoM on March 06, 2005 at 18:09:26 PT

global_warming 
I also want you to know that that expression is one I find strength from in these very trying times. Sometimes I get so emotionally tired. It seems like something good might happen like when I thought we wouldn't have this administration for 4 more years. We do have this administration for 4 more years and it is so depressing. Every step of the way they fight us. The only thing that gives me hope is that the world knows how bad Bush is. At least close to half of the voting people agree with the rest of the world. Maybe we can win. The fight is hard but right is right and wrong is wrong.
[ Post Comment ]




 


Comment #85 posted by FoM on March 06, 2005 at 17:33:27 PT

global_warming 
I just remembered this and I thought you might appreciate it. We shouldn't get weary in well doing walking on the road to New Jerusalem. Young or old it is our spirit that makes the difference. What comes from the heart is everlasting.
[ Post Comment ]




 


Comment #84 posted by global_warming on March 06, 2005 at 17:21:14 PT

My Old Age
Hopes that some youngin, like some breeze, will, just come through, and breeze through these old places, that shade so much tiredness, and so much fatigue.
gw
[ Post Comment ]




 


Comment #83 posted by Hope on March 06, 2005 at 16:51:51 PT

Except, perhaps, one thing
I don't wonder so much how old you are but at how well spoken and thoughtful you are...no matter your age.But, if you are very, very young...that makes your writing that much more stunning.Global Warming, I thought your treatise and choice of scripture in comment # 79 was awesome. I was awed.

[ Post Comment ]




 


Comment #82 posted by Hope on March 06, 2005 at 16:44:49 PT

Breeze
What Global Warming said. Amen!
[ Post Comment ]




 


Comment #81 posted by FoM on March 06, 2005 at 16:34:05 PT

Breeze
I have been a little busy around my house today and didn't have time to read your comment until global_warming reposted it and I stopped what I was doing and read it. Breeze you are quite a person. Thank you so much. You're very much appreciated.
[ Post Comment ]




 


Comment #80 posted by global_warming on March 06, 2005 at 16:21:33 PT

God Bless You Breeze
One wish, how old are u?That was "a" great writing,gw---I understand your viewpoint of thinking that banning "Sanity" from the site was infringement of their free speech rights. I have never been afraid of trolls- I can have a tounge sharper than a razor and it can cut deep. I sometimes even enjoy a literary battle of wits- but I think it was in the brazen atmosphere of just being shocked ourselves at how the circumstances surrounding this tragic event in Canada. The administrators of this site are indeed the best of the net, and their descision was likely based on people who sometimes come here to slam others for their belief merely for the fun of just creating chaos.You must remember- people are like a herd of cows, heading in the direction of a few who think that they are headed in the right direction. If the herd was correct in their "follow the leader" attitude, there would be no need for cowboys to round up and steer the herd. The people who post here are like cowboys and cowgirls- in that we are attempting to steer the "herd" in the right direction. It isn't a job, no one is getting paid for our writings- we do this with a passion that comes straight from grief, understanding, and compassion.We are likely to be people you would never imagine. We are only a few, compared to the millions of people who are out in society that feel the same way- but lack the resources and ability to post on a stage set like we have here. I can give a perfect scenario- I was at my doctors office the other day, and a man was helping another man fill out paperwork. Apparently one of the two man couldn't read. The one who could read had to ask the receptionist the definition of the word "occupation"- "as in what do you do for a living" she replied. It reminded me that this man might be able to read, and he was willing to help his aging friend, but he still had limitations in that he used his ability to read ONLY when it was absolutely required, he was likely the kind of person who has NEVER so much as stepped into a bookstore of his own accord.This person "Sanity" is kind of like this man, in that He can read, and he can process thought. But, he is still limited by his own judgments by conforming his attitude to that of others, indeed- herd mentality. There is an obvious danger when mob rule is at hand, and the media fuels that line of thought when they display some of the facts and not ALL of the facts.Sometimes, even people like "Sanity" needs to have an attitude adjustment- though it is rarely easy, it can be done. Though "Sanity" might disagree with this, "Sanity" might come around to our type of thinking if he/she were to confront their own limitations and do some research of their own.When I was in high school, I was part of herd mentality. I had my directional attitudes, my thoughts on things- and I fit into the thought pattern that POT was bad. Just about any time someone did something that was out of line, they usually attributed it to that person "being on pot." I was a straight edge- I didn't smoke, or drink- because I wanted to conform with the law. But on the very day I graduated, I did it all. Why? Because the very day I graduated high school, was the same day that I turned 18- and on THAT day, the legislators across the land raised the drinking age to 19. I had been "good" for years abstaining from the "sins" of society, and then suddenly I was not able to be regarded as a responsible adult. I thought to myself- gee, I can die for my country, I can get married without asking anyone's permission, I can do everything that an adult can do- EXCEPT drink alcohol? I was enraged, I was supposed to be an adult, able to make adult choices. But this was taken away from me.And so, I stepped out of the auditorium, wearing a cap & gown, diploma in hand- when two fellow classmates walked up- and handed me a joint. I lit it, and discovered that not only had I been denied alcohol on the day I had earned my right to be an adult, but that I had also been lied to about cannabis and its effects. I didn't feel crazy, I wasn't losing my mind- I just felt happiness, a serenity that I had NEVER felt before, a calming effect. It had changed me, in that I had never been so amused by things that I had never even noticed. It made me think about things differently, in a wiser lite. It made me aware of things I had never noticed. It DIDN'T distort my vision, it didn't make things seem so intense that I could not handle the reality around me, it was the total opposite of everything I had been trained to believe about it. I was a follower of the model concept- that my government was responsible and would not lie to me. That moment in my life, after everything I had abstained from and all of the education I had recieved, was time wasted for me. It was the ending of my courses in thought engineering, and the liberation of my own mind. I had reached adulthood, only to be once again treated as a child. Believe me or not, it was an original thought- it was a first for me. I had to break the chains of being brainwashed by the system that had directed my thinking. I had never heard of Timothy Leary, and it wouldn't be until years later that I would discover him as well as many other philosphers, but on that day- the meaning of "Think for yourself, question authority" had never been clearer. I had been geared, and directed into thinking as so many others around me had- that marijuana was the cause of ALL of the ills of society. I saw that I was wrong in my thinking. I saw that so many others were as well. I saw that my leaders, teachers, pastor, and elders had been engulfing me with information that was false and totally malicious. Instead of inspiring freethought, they binded me in thier belief, and I- being instructed since childhood to do so, allowed them to do it.In school, I was taught of many historical events- some that I cannot even remember now. But the most important historical events were never mentioned. The events that sparked change, defiance, and support for liberty were never a subject. I had to learn of the era of prohibition of alcohol on my own, by teaching myself. I have had to learn many things on my own, because I have found that this the only way to learn the absolute truth. I have had to read more than listen, and I deeply regret not having been directed in developing a love for reading earlier in life. I hated reading, because everything I had read was boring, I later learned that this was obviously intentional. You see, when children are taught to read collective works that are "meant" to inspire the mind, if they don't love to read to begin with- they never get it. They miss the lesson being described. So, our system keeps a list of banned or censored books- which is obviously the section I would desire most in that this is information that the greater populous would desire to be hidden. I am naturally curious, and if there is a secret knowledge, I seek that knowledge out. But I realize that I am different in that way. I want to know what is not meant to be known. I investigate the why, the how, and the future possibility of most any subject before entering it either to defend or allow.The majority doesn't do this. They believe what they are told, without question or inquiry. "Sanity" is just one of those types of people- and there are millions. Just examine the reaction of the people who voted for Bush when asked about him. I know people who have regret about their descision to support him, but seldom admit it. I know others who slap their head and say aloud "WHAT WAS I THINKING?!" Hindsight is ALWAYS 20/20, it is foresight that remains so elusive.And so to conclude this lengthy post, as most of my writings are- and I do apologize, we should strive to change thought patterns by examining the shortcomings of others who are restricted by their own limitations. A person who doesn't read, can't be held responsible for not keeping up to date on issues, and those who do read can't be held responsible for thinking INSIDE the box- because they have been trained to do so. It is always a matter of perception. "Sanity" has been brainwashed into believeing that anyone who is against prohibition is evil, that we are gangsters, the scourge of society. What he doesn't see is that we are NOT this, that we are intellectually adept, that we know our subject matter well, and that we remain informed better than most people of the matter thanks to the network we maintain. We aren't the popular image the media and the government portray, we are vastly different. We don't do every drug that is available on the black market, we don't spend all of our time sitting around abusing the substance. We don't advocate the legalization of ALL drugs- we see the difference between abuse and use. We are actually health conscience, we are compassionate, we are for the greater good of society and can see clearly the influence other people can have when they are given the power to do so, for good or ill. We aren't for children being able to have access to cannabis, we aren't for teens using it irresponsibly- we are the VERY opposite of this. We wish to see restrictions on its distribution- but primarily- by adults for adults. As the system is now, it is distributed by kids to kids. If I wished to purchase cannabis from someone, I would likely have to inquire a young person, much-much younger than myself, but ironically, that young person would also ask if I wanted something else as well- something much more powerful than cannabis- and that young person is likely to be under a direct influence by someone who has only one thing in mind- making money- a devious individual taking advantage of another for their youth and inexperience. Do we think that this is responsible behaviour? NO! We see the harm the current laws place these youth in, both by personal experience and by reading of the experiences of others. It is callously irresponsible to treat the issue as something that can be dealt with by just making cannabis illegal. There is no solution there, and we ANTI-prohibitionists see this. We choose to see things with wisdom, seeking a higher degree of intellectual effectiveness regarding the matter- something legislation has failed to do. In fact, we regard current legislation to be a massive failure, in deed a statistic of stupidity, fallacy, and idiocy. To lock people away for their own protection doesn't work. To lock people away for life because they took advantage of the very law that made the money so lucrative is preposperous. The very design of drug laws GURANTEE that there is a profit to be made- because when something is desired by so many people, the price of what they desire goes up. It is against the law, it's frequently called "price gouging." And so, people who sell cannabis take advantage of this- not all of them, just the ones who lack scruples.There is a long history of fortunes being made by thugs who offer people seeking out things that are taboo in our society. Las Vegas is one such example. If one were to view a program describing the town today, one would wonder if gambling even exists there any longer- but in its beggining, gambling was the only reason to go to Las Vegas-and it was started by people who were less than kind and compassionate human beings, but instead by the MOB- gangsters from Chicago and New York. Las Vegas today is seen as a family friendly town, sort of like Disneyland, only more spread out. The issue of prohibition being destructive surrounding cannabis is not as confined to a single area as Las Vegas was during its inception- its nationwide, and it effects MANY countries. We only see what many leaders fail to acknowledge- that prohibition is dangerous, and adds even MORE danger to situations that would otherwise be dismissive.-----peacegw
[ Post Comment ]




 


Comment #79 posted by global_warming on March 06, 2005 at 15:41:59 PT

Creepier and creepier
This should not be a mystery to you'allHow can the blood of this Jesus, and all his words,
Ever have any meaning in our powerful
and bloodlusting world?The many whispers and tv commercials,
Quickly ignore this blood,
There is current business to record,
My lawyer my council,
Is late to reflect,While each and every mother loving child,
Digests their fast burger, This poison is reaching deeper,
Into this America,
Into the flesh of this American Constitution,
Into the flesh of the ancient writs,
For with each measured breath,
Each careful step,
As the future pushes into our face,
There is a balance,
In each time,
There is pleasure,
There is patience,
There is Pride,
There is Hope,Love you allgw
[ Post Comment ]




 


Comment #78 posted by FoM on March 06, 2005 at 15:37:12 PT

Just a Note
I want to clarify why I wanted to know the distance between B.C. and Alberta. I am well aware of how the news has tried to spin this into something it isn't. They want to blame Cannabis. I start to think like they think so I can find no connection even though I know there is no connection. Connections made by this administration have been sucessful even if the truth is lost in the process. That's my worry about the New York Times article.
[ Post Comment ]




 


Comment #77 posted by Hope on March 06, 2005 at 15:24:44 PT

Kap summed up our position well
"In closing, I'd like to ask whether 1,000 cannabis plants, or 500, or 100, or the reported 20 this nutjob reportedly had is worth a single human being's life ON EITHER SIDE of the controversy. I submit that it never has, and will never will be." But the scarier thing is...THEY are willing to destroy or kill you to keep you from having that same plant. THEY would kill you. THEY would take all your property. THEY would take your children from you. THEY would destroy your reputation and make you have to admit to be a felon of some sort on every job application you fill out. THEY will force body fluids out of you to find if you have been using the plant. THEY will ridicule you and call you names because of their hatred of you and that plant. THEY will terrify you and throw you on the floor and tie your hands behind your back because of it. THEY will put you in a cage because of the plant.It goes on.Isn't that peculiar?
[ Post Comment ]




 


Comment #76 posted by breeze on March 06, 2005 at 15:09:24 PT

AZToker - Sam Adams- 
I understand your viewpoint of thinking that banning "Sanity" from the site was infringement of their free speech rights. I have never been afraid of trolls- I can have a tounge sharper than a razor and it can cut deep. I sometimes even enjoy a literary battle of wits- but I think it was in the brazen atmosphere of just being shocked ourselves at how the circumstances surrounding this tragic event in Canada. The administrators of this site are indeed the best of the net, and their descision was likely based on people who sometimes come here to slam others for their belief merely for the fun of just creating chaos. You must remember- people are like a herd of cows, heading in the direction of a few who think that they are headed in the right direction. If the herd was correct in their "follow the leader" attitude, there would be no need for cowboys to round up and steer the herd. The people who post here are like cowboys and cowgirls- in that we are attempting to steer the "herd" in the right direction. It isn't a job, no one is getting paid for our writings- we do this with a passion that comes straight from grief, understanding, and compassion.We are likely to be people you would never imagine. We are only a few, compared to the millions of people who are out in society that feel the same way- but lack the resources and ability to post on a stage set like we have here. I can give a perfect scenario- I was at my doctors office the other day, and a man was helping another man fill out paperwork. Apparently one of the two man couldn't read. The one who could read had to ask the receptionist the definition of the word "occupation"- "as in what do you do for a living" she replied. It reminded me that this man might be able to read, and he was willing to help his aging friend, but he still had limitations in that he used his ability to read ONLY when it was absolutely required, he was likely the kind of person who has NEVER so much as stepped into a bookstore of his own accord. This person "Sanity" is kind of like this man, in that He can read, and he can process thought. But, he is still limited by his own judgments by conforming his attitude to that of others, indeed- herd mentality. There is an obvious danger when mob rule is at hand, and the media fuels that line of thought when they display some of the facts and not ALL of the facts.Sometimes, even people like "Sanity" needs to have an attitude adjustment- though it is rarely easy, it can be done. Though "Sanity" might disagree with this, "Sanity" might come around to our type of thinking if he/she were to confront their own limitations and do some research of their own.When I was in high school, I was part of herd mentality. I had my directional attitudes, my thoughts on things- and I fit into the thought pattern that POT was bad. Just about any time someone did something that was out of line, they usually attributed it to that person "being on pot." I was a straight edge- I didn't smoke, or drink- because I wanted to conform with the law. But on the very day I graduated, I did it all. Why? Because the very day I graduated high school, was the same day that I turned 18- and on THAT day, the legislators across the land raised the drinking age to 19. I had been "good" for years abstaining from the "sins" of society, and then suddenly I was not able to be regarded as a responsible adult. I thought to myself- gee, I can die for my country, I can get married without asking anyone's permission, I can do everything that an adult can do- EXCEPT drink alcohol? I was enraged, I was supposed to be an adult, able to make adult choices. But this was taken away from me. And so, I stepped out of the auditorium, wearing a cap & gown, diploma in hand- when two fellow classmates walked up- and handed me a joint. I lit it, and discovered that not only had I been denied alcohol on the day I had earned my right to be an adult, but that I had also been lied to about cannabis and its effects. I didn't feel crazy, I wasn't losing my mind- I just felt happiness, a serenity that I had NEVER felt before, a calming effect. It had changed me, in that I had never been so amused by things that I had never even noticed. It made me think about things differently, in a wiser lite. It made me aware of things I had never noticed. It DIDN'T distort my vision, it didn't make things seem so intense that I could not handle the reality around me, it was the total opposite of everything I had been trained to believe about it. I was a follower of the model concept- that my government was responsible and would not lie to me. That moment in my life, after everything I had abstained from and all of the education I had recieved, was time wasted for me. It was the ending of my courses in thought engineering, and the liberation of my own mind. I had reached adulthood, only to be once again treated as a child. Believe me or not, it was an original thought- it was a first for me. I had to break the chains of being brainwashed by the system that had directed my thinking. I had never heard of Timothy Leary, and it wouldn't be until years later that I would discover him as well as many other philosphers, but on that day- the meaning of "Think for yourself, question authority" had never been clearer. I had been geared, and directed into thinking as so many others around me had- that marijuana was the cause of ALL of the ills of society. I saw that I was wrong in my thinking. I saw that so many others were as well. I saw that my leaders, teachers, pastor, and elders had been engulfing me with information that was false and totally malicious. Instead of inspiring freethought, they binded me in thier belief, and I- being instructed since childhood to do so, allowed them to do it.In school, I was taught of many historical events- some that I cannot even remember now. But the most important historical events were never mentioned. The events that sparked change, defiance, and support for liberty were never a subject. I had to learn of the era of prohibition of alcohol on my own, by teaching myself. I have had to learn many things on my own, because I have found that this the only way to learn the absolute truth. I have had to read more than listen, and I deeply regret not having been directed in developing a love for reading earlier in life. I hated reading, because everything I had read was boring, I later learned that this was obviously intentional. You see, when children are taught to read collective works that are "meant" to inspire the mind, if they don't love to read to begin with- they never get it. They miss the lesson being described. So, our system keeps a list of banned or censored books- which is obviously the section I would desire most in that this is information that the greater populous would desire to be hidden. I am naturally curious, and if there is a secret knowledge, I seek that knowledge out. But I realize that I am different in that way. I want to know what is not meant to be known. I investigate the why, the how, and the future possibility of most any subject before entering it either to defend or allow. The majority doesn't do this. They believe what they are told, without question or inquiry. "Sanity" is just one of those types of people- and there are millions. Just examine the reaction of the people who voted for Bush when asked about him. I know people who have regret about their descision to support him, but seldom admit it. I know others who slap their head and say aloud "WHAT WAS I THINKING?!" Hindsight is ALWAYS 20/20, it is foresight that remains so elusive. And so to conclude this lengthy post, as most of my writings are- and I do apologize, we should strive to change thought patterns by examining the shortcomings of others who are restricted by their own limitations. A person who doesn't read, can't be held responsible for not keeping up to date on issues, and those who do read can't be held responsible for thinking INSIDE the box- because they have been trained to do so. It is always a matter of perception. "Sanity" has been brainwashed into believeing that anyone who is against prohibition is evil, that we are gangsters, the scourge of society. What he doesn't see is that we are NOT this, that we are intellectually adept, that we know our subject matter well, and that we remain informed better than most people of the matter thanks to the network we maintain. We aren't the popular image the media and the government portray, we are vastly different. We don't do every drug that is available on the black market, we don't spend all of our time sitting around abusing the substance. We don't advocate the legalization of ALL drugs- we see the difference between abuse and use. We are actually health conscience, we are compassionate, we are for the greater good of society and can see clearly the influence other people can have when they are given the power to do so, for good or ill. We aren't for children being able to have access to cannabis, we aren't for teens using it irresponsibly- we are the VERY opposite of this. We wish to see restrictions on its distribution- but primarily- by adults for adults. As the system is now, it is distributed by kids to kids. If I wished to purchase cannabis from someone, I would likely have to inquire a young person, much-much younger than myself, but ironically, that young person would also ask if I wanted something else as well- something much more powerful than cannabis- and that young person is likely to be under a direct influence by someone who has only one thing in mind- making money- a devious individual taking advantage of another for their youth and inexperience. Do we think that this is responsible behaviour? NO! We see the harm the current laws place these youth in, both by personal experience and by reading of the experiences of others. It is callously irresponsible to treat the issue as something that can be dealt with by just making cannabis illegal. There is no solution there, and we ANTI-prohibitionists see this. We choose to see things with wisdom, seeking a higher degree of intellectual effectiveness regarding the matter- something legislation has failed to do. In fact, we regard current legislation to be a massive failure, in deed a statistic of stupidity, fallacy, and idiocy. To lock people away for their own protection doesn't work. To lock people away for life because they took advantage of the very law that made the money so lucrative is preposperous. The very design of drug laws GURANTEE that there is a profit to be made- because when something is desired by so many people, the price of what they desire goes up. It is against the law, it's frequently called "price gouging." And so, people who sell cannabis take advantage of this- not all of them, just the ones who lack scruples. There is a long history of fortunes being made by thugs who offer people seeking out things that are taboo in our society. Las Vegas is one such example. If one were to view a program describing the town today, one would wonder if gambling even exists there any longer- but in its beggining, gambling was the only reason to go to Las Vegas-and it was started by people who were less than kind and compassionate human beings, but instead by the MOB- gangsters from Chicago and New York. Las Vegas today is seen as a family friendly town, sort of like Disneyland, only more spread out. The issue of prohibition being destructive surrounding cannabis is not as confined to a single area as Las Vegas was during its inception- its nationwide, and it effects MANY countries. We only see what many leaders fail to acknowledge- that prohibition is dangerous, and adds even MORE danger to situations that would otherwise be dismissive.
[ Post Comment ]




 


Comment #75 posted by Hope on March 06, 2005 at 14:44:13 PT

Creepier and creepier
Something one of the Bailiffs that were first out to the farm to repossess the truck makes me think there are tunnels with secret entrances under and inside that Quonset hut and probably other buildings or features on that property.
[ Post Comment ]




 


Comment #74 posted by Hope on March 06, 2005 at 14:04:58 PT

The last part of the next to last paragraph 
is rather a sort of "hoot" in the midst of all this sorrow and horror. Like he would know...or what?http://www.mapinc.org/drugnews/v05/n379/a03.html?397I'm impressed at the young people this column is about. Recently we spoke of our possibly passing on before this prohibition is over and who would be left to carry the standard of justice. If it's ten thousand years there will be standard bearers for truth, justice, mercy, and wisdom.
[ Post Comment ]




 


Comment #73 posted by global_warming on March 06, 2005 at 14:01:36 PT

Puppy Mills, my ass
"Hopefully, this week's shootings in Mayerthorpe will change how RCMP officers execute searches on the properties of known, violent criminals. "Hopefully Freedom to own your own land, freedom to live, freedom to not be afraid of those sounds in the darkness, this is what this story is about.Like the humming bee, when "you" intrude, you will get stung.I have had enough intrusion into my life.This diseased prohibition has gone too far, and those pressing needs to control, have also gone too far, if the prohibitionists cannot understand,then they will force many good God loving people, to stand up, and when some of these folks stand up, they will have a shot gun, or some other weapon, that the Russians or Israelis will make available.
[ Post Comment ]




 


Comment #72 posted by Hope on March 06, 2005 at 13:33:29 PT

.........
http://www.mapinc.org/drugnews/v05/n378/a08.html?397
[ Post Comment ]




 


Comment #71 posted by global_warming on March 06, 2005 at 13:30:20 PT

There is fire
Luk 3:7 Then said he to the multitude that came forth to be baptized of him, O generation of vipers, who hath warned you to flee from the wrath to come? Luk 3:8 Bring forth therefore fruits worthy of repentance, and begin not to say within yourselves, We have Abraham to our father: for I say unto you, That God is able of these stones to raise up children unto Abraham. Luk 3:9 And now also the axe is laid unto the root of the trees: every tree therefore which bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire. Luk 3:10 And the people asked him, saying, What shall we do then? Luk 3:11 He answereth and saith unto them, He that hath two coats, let him impart to him that hath none; and he that hath meat, let him do likewise. ----When the root becomes diseased, it must be removed, for the health of this world.gw
[ Post Comment ]




 


Comment #70 posted by FoM on March 06, 2005 at 13:12:32 PT

JackBnimble
Thank you. I was trying to figure out how they were trying to connect B.C. Bud as the problem if they were at least a 1000 miles apart. You answered my question. I wish my distance was right though. Back to the drawing board for me now.
[ Post Comment ]




 


Comment #69 posted by JackBnimble on March 06, 2005 at 13:09:04 PT

Not quite that far FOM
Hi FOM,Alberta and BC are neighbouring provinces. So technically they aren't far apart at all (touching).Calgary and Vancouver are about 600 miles apart though.
[ Post Comment ]




 


Comment #68 posted by JackBnimble on March 06, 2005 at 13:05:15 PT

Actually I disagree
I am of the mind that the politicians and (right winged press i.e canada.com newspapers) will TRY to twist this.I was chatting with my sister earlier today, and funnily enough, she stated exactly what should be obvious to all (especially the press) 
THE POLICE KNEW NOTHING ABOUT THE GROW. IT WAS 20 PLANTS.
 People outside of aour cause sometimes DO see clearly the forest for the trees.
[ Post Comment ]




 


Comment #67 posted by FoM on March 06, 2005 at 12:52:49 PT

What's The Distance Between Alberta & B.C.
If I am right it is a least 1000 miles. (CP) - The murder of four RCMP officers searching a marijuana-growing operation in Alberta is stark evidence of how serious the B.C. bud problem is becoming, U.S. officials said in an article Saturday in the New York Times newspaper. http://cnews.canoe.ca/CNEWS/Canada/2005/03/05/951511-cp.htmlViolent New Front in Drug War Opens on the Canadian Borderhttp://www.cannabisnews.com/news/thread20323.shtml
[ Post Comment ]




 


Comment #66 posted by Hope on March 06, 2005 at 12:51:41 PT

Oddly enough
for this "subscription only" paper, the entire article is available.http://www.canada.com/edmonton/edmontonjournal/news/story.html?id=e0fd6acf-6e19-40b7-a54e-5e0c27d4fd4c&page=1
[ Post Comment ]




 


Comment #65 posted by FoM on March 06, 2005 at 12:18:04 PT

WolfgangWylde 
Unfortunately I agree with you.
[ Post Comment ]




 


Comment #64 posted by WolfgangWylde on March 06, 2005 at 12:16:46 PT

Canada's reached the turning point...
...My guess is this whole episode will be used to turn hard toward a U.S.-style Drug War mentality.
[ Post Comment ]




 


Comment #63 posted by Hope on March 06, 2005 at 12:13:00 PT

"horrifying distance and accuracy"
Unobstructed...eight to ten MILES.
[ Post Comment ]




 


Comment #62 posted by Hope on March 06, 2005 at 11:32:10 PT

Oh, My Lord!
At this rate, it will be twenty years before we know what happened.http://www.mapinc.org/drugnews/v05/n380/a05.html?397I was just reading that "assault weapon" for the umpteenth time and I was wondering why no one said what it really is, so that people could see it more clearly. A high powered hunting rifle.Lord knows...they scare me.But they've been around forever. They are meant to take down large deer or something from a distance. I lay low during any hunting season...learned the "hard way" and even not in hunting season, if I hear gunfire from anywhere, I'm getting my self and my children in a brick house, and not allow people to hang around in front of windows.They're all "assault" weapons. A derringer is an assault weapon. I've seen a fork used as an assault weapon. I'm glad this writer was more clear and credible, to me, in description of the weapon used against the aresenal toting officers. "A high powered rifle". Neither a shotgun nor a pistol can match it for absolutely horrifying distance and accuracy.That's kinda more credible than the rest of the story. Now there are 300 plants, according to this reporter.It looks as though he, the suspect, must have been waiting for as many officers to come inside as possible. This just gets more incredibly creepy by the minute.
[ Post Comment ]




 


Comment #61 posted by Sam Adams on March 06, 2005 at 11:25:46 PT

Poor Sanity
Sanity's so mixed up, he can't even keep his hatred straight! Are stoners the silly pacifists that stopped the Viet Nam war, and all the killing associated with it? The weakling hippies flashing a peace sign?Or are we callous, bloodthirsty cop-killers? Or maybe the little kid stoners in Mom's basement are just responsible for EVERYTHING bad. Maybe that's it. We're responsible for everything bad, and hard-drinking construction worker tough guys are God's True Messengers. I, too, do not think that this guy did anything to deserve being banned. He's expressing his feelings in an acceptable manner, no profanity or anything.It's easy to lash out when you shocked by tragedy. We know. We know how hard it is to see good people killed by cops, or having their property seized, or desperately ill people being kicked to the ground & handcuffed.  People with serious health problems being forced to flee the U.S. for illegal gardening. We know how hard it is to react to all this by doing things like petitioning, making phone calls, going to meetings with politicians, writing op-eds and LTE's. I'm proud to be associated with the MJ reform movement. Virtually all the people I"ve met have very strong hearts, and sincerely care about helping others. I don't mind being reminded of the moral inferiority of the Prohibitionists like Sanity now & then.
[ Post Comment ]




 


Comment #60 posted by FoM on March 06, 2005 at 11:01:23 PT

I Can't Get This Article
This is a lead in from an article I can't get from The Globe and Mail. I wonder about this too and this says all that is necessary to say.***A Tragic LossIAN HENDELToday's Paper: Saturday, March 5, 2005 12:00 AM Page A22 
Why was the focus of remarks following the shootings deaths of four RCMP officers on the legalization/decriminalization of marijuana and not on gun control? These officers where not killed by marijuana, they were brutally shot to death with a high-powered rifle. 
[ Post Comment ]




 


Comment #59 posted by FoM on March 06, 2005 at 10:43:56 PT

afterburner
That's very interesting. 
[ Post Comment ]




 


Comment #58 posted by afterburner on March 06, 2005 at 10:39:57 PT

James Roszko's Sister Paints a Different Picture
Mar. 6, 2005. 11:05 AM 
 Sidebar: {MIKE STURK FOR THE TORONTO STAR{RCMP crime scene investigators work yesterday at the farm near Mayerthorpe, Alta., where four RCMP constables were killed Thursday by James Roszko. His sister, Josephine Ruel, says a distraught Roszko called her for help the day before the killings, because ‘there were police everywhere.’} 
 'He called me for help'
Roszko frantic before killings http://tinyurl.com/5wd4lANDREW CHUNG
STAFF REPORTERExcerpt:{Mayerthorpe, Alta.—RCMP officers may not have known where James Roszko was when they set foot on his farm Thursday, but it appears he knew exactly where they were. {A day earlier, when the police investigation began, he had called his sister Josephine Ruel in nearby Whitecourt. {"He called me the day before he died, he called me for help," said Josephine in a tear-filled interview yesterday.{Roszko was distraught, she said. "He said there were police everywhere. {"I wish I could have said something that could have made a difference. Maybe this wouldn't have happened."} 

The Toronto Star - you know what to do
[ Post Comment ]




 


Comment #57 posted by Hope on March 06, 2005 at 10:16:14 PT

Apparently
according to this http://www.mapinc.org/drugnews/v05/n381/a10.html?397 the fallen at least got a chance to "fight back" before they died. I think that's better than not.Bless their souls.
[ Post Comment ]




 


Comment #56 posted by runruff on March 06, 2005 at 09:40:01 PT:

Some folks?
I say if you haven't yet learned how to lovetry to learned not to hate.This would be a good start.Namaste 
[ Post Comment ]




 


Comment #55 posted by runruff on March 06, 2005 at 09:33:52 PT:

John Tyler
AMEN!
[ Post Comment ]




 


Comment #54 posted by Hope on March 06, 2005 at 09:31:32 PT

Reality and "Sanity"
Sometimes I forget that people who despise us might be reading. I tend to think everyone here loves me and that we are all a great and united body of humanity and spirituality...some one actually posted a week or so ago, a comment, something along the lines of "We all love you, Hope." And, if not always "love", then at least, polite tolerance. Sometimes we forget that there are actually people who come here to pervert and twist our words.Nice little reality check.Hi, "Sanity"...I see you!
[ Post Comment ]




 


Comment #53 posted by Hope on March 06, 2005 at 09:23:20 PT

Thank you, Afterburner
For stirring someone out of the "woodwork".It's nice to see what sort of mentality we are dealing with in our adversaries.
[ Post Comment ]




 


Comment #52 posted by Hope on March 06, 2005 at 09:20:57 PT

John Tyler
That is a very accurate description of us all and what we are about. I don't remember ever seeing it so aptly and beautifully...so eloquently, with heartfelt passion, put.Thank you.
[ Post Comment ]




 


Comment #51 posted by afterburner on March 06, 2005 at 09:20:00 PT

Thanks, Friends, 
for your support and perseverance.
[ Post Comment ]




 


Comment #50 posted by Had Enough on March 06, 2005 at 09:16:37 PT

John Tyler
Well said
[ Post Comment ]




 


Comment #49 posted by afterburner on March 06, 2005 at 09:14:09 PT

FoM
You have mail, the wonky one.
[ Post Comment ]




 


Comment #48 posted by FoM on March 06, 2005 at 08:43:33 PT

John Tyler 
What you said is all I ever wanted for CNews. Thank you.
[ Post Comment ]




 


Comment #47 posted by John Tyler on March 06, 2005 at 08:31:02 PT

For Sanity’s benefit
For Sanity’s benefit, and anyone else who may have stopped by lately, we are a community of concerned individuals who see something wrong with our society and are discussing ways to remedy it in the finest tradition of American democracy. If you can’t understand that I feel sorry for you. These are good, enlightened people here and I count myself fortunate to have found this site.
[ Post Comment ]




 


Comment #46 posted by goneposthole on March 06, 2005 at 08:18:52 PT

more blame shifting
more shameless exploitationThe plant has been in man's hands for over nine thousand years. Nowadays, it is the root of all evil - everywhere you go. Such a shame that cannabis gets blamed for everything evil. Makes one wonder.Once more: "A single death is a tragedy, a million - a statistic." -- Joe StalinFour tragic deaths is a tragedy, a 100 thousand dead Iraqis are now a statistic in all of the journals. Laci Peterson's death was a tragedy. 43,000 highway traffic deaths are a statistic. I don't see a single car prohibitionist anywhere I go. Cars are legal. How many deaths each year from from tobacco use? I don't see anybody asking for prohibition of cigarettes, especially Bill Bennett. I don't see any tobacco prohibitionists. Come to think of it, how many deaths each year from alcohol use? There are a few alcohol prohibitionists our there, but that's all been done before. Seagram's got its start in Saskatchewan. Al Capone visited and stayed in Moose Jaw, the Chicago of the North. The brutal facts that were born from alcohol prohibition repeat themselves with cannabis prohibition. Go to your local library and read the old editions of your local newspaper that are on microfiche. Turn the pages and read old news stories from the prohibition years... say 1924 or so. Same old same old. First it was alcohol, now it's cannabis. Alcohol prohibition was anything but sanity. The only way to stop the death and destruction of cannabis prohibition is to legalize.  Shake those chains, serve your master. It's the 'sane' thing to do.You have to pound some sense into something. good lord
[ Post Comment ]




 


Comment #45 posted by Hope on March 06, 2005 at 08:14:13 PT

Raid?
From what I can glean about this situation, the death of the four young officers, this was never a raid in the traditional sense at all. The officers were guarding a crime scene regarding the investigation of stolen property, stemming from the original complaint concerning repossession of a mortgaged vehicle.I think there really may have been a "bungle" in that these officers were allowed to become "fish in a barrel" on the property of a brute beast of a man.I keep trying to imagine what could have happened that he could have sneaked up on four armed officers and killed them all. Maybe they had been there so long that they thought the suspect was long gone. Maybe they were talking with each other as the predator crept upon them. Why weren't they posted outside instead of inside the building? There are so many questions to be answered so that mistakes will not be repeated on another occasion. One thing is clear. This was not about protecting a grow operation.If officials learned anything from previous, historical, mistakes we wouldn't have to worry about the fruits of prohibition. In fact we shouldn’t even have to talk about prohibition in this matter. I think it really didn’t have anything to do with prohibition. It had to do with a dangerous man. The man was truly a dangerous criminal, not someone “sitting in his mother’s basement smoking cannabis”.Some outspoken, deluded or deluding, politicians and spin masters made it about prohibition or we wouldn't even be talking about it here.By all accounts, the murderer was well known as, in Paul Simon's immortal words, "a mean individual". All too often, meanness, cruelty, injustice, and bullying...especially by government decree and even, on a number of occasions, law enforcement, are endured and relatively accepted. This should not be.By trying to make people blame cannabis and cannabis use for this disaster, real hypocrites are "swallowing a camel, and straining at a gnat". Are they grandstanding on these lost lives for their agenda or are they trying to cover up obvious tactical mistakes that cost the lives of four law enforcement officers?If prohibitionists attain their goal of diverting attention from the real causes of the horror that took place in that Quonset hut, by screaming "grow-op", we may never know the truth, but instead will dismiss and pass by it, and continue down the dark and deadly path of prohibition.By coloring cannabists and cannabis as a villian, prohibition minded folk have blinded themselves as to the color of REAL villains. They don't know them when they see them because they didn't see the thing they have made themselves so senslessly afraid of in the first place.

[ Post Comment ]




 


Comment #44 posted by FoM on March 06, 2005 at 07:26:24 PT

afterburner
Thank you for the link. I really like Richard Cowan. I'll try to watch the show today.
[ Post Comment ]




 


Comment #43 posted by afterburner on March 06, 2005 at 06:57:59 PT

For Those Who Are Interested
Richard Cowan speaks out outlining many of the same arguments others here have posted regarding a botched RCMP raid, the folly of the government's cannabis position and their disingenuous solution, decriminalization and tougher jail time for growers.POT-TV: MarijuanaNews World Report: All Power to the Incompetents! http://www.pot-tv.net/archive/shows/pottvshowse-3556.html
[ Post Comment ]




 


Comment #42 posted by siege on March 06, 2005 at 06:29:35 PT

government
 "Those who will not be governed by God must be ruled by Tyrants "  William Penn A lot of people blame things on government, but there’s nothing wrong with government. The problem is that the wicked have been more active in getting their people into positions of power and influence. God-fearing Americans simply need to quit hiding out in church buildings and start working together to impact the public arena and restore Jesus as King.
Government is only as good or bad as the people we elect to represent us. It all comes back to personal responsibility for applying Biblical principles to every area of our lives, including the election of candidates who will pass biblical laws and repeal unbiblical ones

[ Post Comment ]




 


Comment #41 posted by siege on March 06, 2005 at 05:56:21 PT

O T 
CODEX ALIMENTARIS ENDS U.S. SUPPLEMENTS IN JUNE 2005Working stealthily BIG PHARMA has rapidly pushed their legislative program (Codex Alimentaris) in Europe that will eliminate the free choice Americans now have to purchase vitamins, herbs, minerals, homeopathic remedies, aminoacids and nutritional supplements. This elimination of all competition for the pharmaceutical industry will produce an enormous increase in the already exorbitant profits earned by the pharmaceutical firms. http://www.newswithviews.com/Howenstine/james24.htm
[ Post Comment ]




 


Comment #40 posted by AZToker420 on March 06, 2005 at 05:55:07 PT:

Sanity?
While I do not agree with Sanity's comments, I must say that banning his or her from commenting in this forum goes against the freedom of speech we all believe in and fight for everyday through the legalization of this wonderful weed. That is all. 
[ Post Comment ]




 


Comment #39 posted by mayan on March 06, 2005 at 05:53:36 PT

Sickening
We cannot continue to ratchet up a policy which creates such a climate of violence!The prohibitionists,U.S. and Canadian, are twisting and turning this story to justify more of the same...U.S. officials anxious about marijuana smuggling after RCMP officers killed:
http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=1845&ncid=737&e=4&u=/cpress/20050305/ca_pr_on_na/us_cda_drugsLiberals call for tougher laws on pot growing: 
http://www.mytelus.com/news/article.do?pageID=cbc/canada_home&articleID=1863985Pot shots slam Grits - ALBERTA MASSACRE LIGHTS 'GRASS' FIRE:
http://www.canoe.ca/NewsStand/TorontoSun/News/2005/03/06/951922-sun.htmlThis is so wrong.
[ Post Comment ]




 


Comment #38 posted by kaptinemo on March 06, 2005 at 05:52:52 PT:

Blinders
We've just been given another example of just how deliberately narrowed the focus of our opposition is. Had s/he taken time to peruse all the comments that have been made on this site since this tragedy, it would have become clear that the depth of concern reaches far below the surface level "Sanity" was apparently commenting from. Knee-jerk reactionism does occasionally happen on this site, but only rarely. Most commenters here possess an almost encyclopedic knowledge of the 'ecology' of the DrugWar, and know from sad experience the usual cycle of unthinking ratcheting up of both rhetoric and violence on the part of The State and it's minions when something like this happens.But I repeat what many here have already stated: the original problem that caused these men to lose their lives was a matter unrelated to cannabis, but as soon as the 'authorities' were made aware of cannabis's PERIPHERAL involvement, they sought to make it the PRIMARY factor out of a desire to politically capitalize upon what was originally nothing more than another stolen property case turned into a pointless slaughter. "Sanity"'s ire should be more properly directed at those who have made such ghoulish use of those young men's lives in such a manner. For as usual, there's no benefit accruing to those who are ALREADY on the short, sharp and sh***y end of the prohibition stick to callously crow about more needless death. No one here has been jumping up and down with glee at their loss. As has been pointed out before, too many innocent *civilians* have been killed by agents of The State; I notice "Sanity" did not mourn THEIR wasted lives. Evidently, such don't count in his/her purview.  In closing, I'd like to ask whether 1,000 cannabis plants, or 500, or 100, or the reported 20 this nutjob reportedly had is worth a single human being's life ON EITHER SIDE of the controversy. I submit that it never has, and will never will be.

[ Post Comment ]




 


Comment #37 posted by Hope on March 06, 2005 at 05:14:07 PT

Sanity
The very first news I read of this tragedy...and it is a tragedy...mentioned that the murderer was "protecting a dangerous grow-op".That just was not true. It was blatent promotion of hysteria and hatred for the purpose of furthering what has proven to be a destructive and deadly political agenda. It very much seemed as though they were saying, "Oh boy! Look what we have now! This has got to be good to keep those damn reformers from weaking our lovely prohibition."The young men have been on my mind almost constantly since I first learned of this horror. Just as the Bowers family, and the Sepulveda boy and many others I have promised myself to remember, have been.Your anger should be directed at those who tried to use their murders to further entrench prohibition. 
[ Post Comment ]




 


Comment #36 posted by Hope on March 06, 2005 at 05:01:02 PT

Sanity
Since he or she can no longer post, I think I have to say that his or her comments were not directed at Breeze or his posts. I believe Sanity was referring to Afterburner's comment #2.Sanity said, "Calling the reporting of the cold-blooded murder of four innocent RCMP officers a "shameless manipulation" is despicable."We are all devastated at four more needless deaths. No one is calling the "reporting" of murder "shameless manipulation". But, Sir or Madam, in your grief perhaps you were unable to see that, first rattle out of the bag, as we say in this neck of the woods, politicians and some law enforcement immediately started screaming for tougher sentencing for grow-ops....before the young men were likely even removed from the scene of their sensless demise, much less buried.We know it's a tragedy. We have been studying "tragedy" at this site for a very long time. You may have noticed that prohibition has brought other senseless deaths to our attention. Just to name a few: http://blogs.salon.com/0002762/stories/2003/08/17/drugWarVictims.htmlIf your grief and desire to blame someone hadn't blinded you, you might have noticed that our distaste for what is happening in the storm around the tragedy, the reporting of the loss is not our problem at all. It's the fact that Ann McLellan and others immediately used the young officers deaths to forward a political agenda. We are offended that A. McLellans and others immediately jumped out about grow-ops. Really, I wish you could answer, aren't you offended at that?This is not about "smoking" cannabis. Wake up! It's about how low and unreasonable prohibitionists can get, using this tragedy to further their agendas.
[ Post Comment ]




 


Comment #35 posted by breeze on March 05, 2005 at 22:54:47 PT

Correction for verification
In my last post I used a legal term that may be seen differently than my intended purpose.I used the words- "Fruit of a poisonous tree," which in NO way describes cannabis- it's definition is as follows:in criminal law, the doctrine that evidence discovered due to information found through illegal search or other unconstitutional means (such as a forced confession) may not be introduced by a prosecutor. The theory is that the tree (original illegal evidence) is poisoned and thus taints what grows from it. For example, as part of a coerced admission made without giving a prime suspect the so-called "Miranda warnings" (statement of rights, including the right to remain silent and what he/she says will be used against them), the suspect tells the police the location of stolen property. Since the admission cannot be introduced as evidence in trial, neither can the stolen property.I apologize for any misunderstanding!
[ Post Comment ]




 


Comment #34 posted by breeze on March 05, 2005 at 22:35:30 PT

sanity= prohibitionist
Funny- some LEO's seem to BOAST everytime someone is shot in the line of duty- as long as it isn't one of their own.I read about it all the time, cop shoots drug dealer...gets office job(promotion).I am not anti-police, I am anti-stupidity. "Sanity" should consider changing the name to unsanity.Attacking me about the four dead cops doesn't justify what you are deliberatly trying to misinterpret as a lack of compassion for these gentlemen. I stated clearly that someone who has a mental illness, or severe addiction to a drug [to the point of robbery and violence] is not likely to recieve treatment, either because of denial or lack of monetary means to do so. When was the last time you ever heard of someone robbing or killing someone for a joint?
Get your head out the sand, "dude", and then realize the man that killed these men was in desperate need of treatment of some sort, or did you forget that he was known to be a "dangerous" individual with a passion for weapons? I have known a few people that have a passion for weapons, and they aren't exactly the most intelligent folk I have met. Their often fanatical about their stock of weapons, and frequently fantasize about using them. And I don't mean just citizens, but LEO's as well. This guy was begging for the oppurtunity to kill someone. He was likely being investigated for theft in the area, which led to the fruit of a poisonous tree. Hereby, the focus is on the cannabis- not the materials he stole. If these men were instead investigating him BECAUSE of cannabis he was growing, then examine how the prohibition issue played out for him and four others. No one wins, everyone loses. You obviously mistook my statements, which accompanies your short-sightedness. I tried to make it clear that to use this particular issue to further the need for marijuana prohibition is absurd and an insult to the men who lost their life. I would hope that people like you would come to understand that to injure another for using a natural plant instead of alcohol to reach euphoria or treat symptoms of a disease, should be acceptable. Ie- cannabis "relaxes" a person- cocaine, meth, alcohol and other "stimulants" do not do this, they increase the atmosphere for tension, anxiety, and other mental disorder. And as far as addictions- imagine what would happen if laws were introduced to curb addiction to caffeine, alcohol, cigarettes, television, sex, food- ALL of these things were to suddenly become illegal. What would happen if cops were given the right to kick in doors on a family for eating too much or watching too much television? Would there be a black market for these things? You betcha. Would people fight back when their doors were busted down by some intruder? Yep. Harm reduction, that is the best I can hope for as I am sure these men did. But the ideals presented by the person that calls themself "Sanity" only creates harm to others instead of healing. For IF the LEO's that died, did so merely because of the legality of a plant, that when used doesn't incite tension or anxiety in the user, or create hazards for the community- then it truly is a shame that the government hasn't seen the ignorance of prohibition, and an insult to their memory. It has been said, but worth repeating- prohibition leads to violence.We all know that weapons and guns kill- but they are still legal, and in many cases, glorified. The majority of popular television shows and movies frequently display this affection for this machine of death. Handguns are often only used for one thing, killing another human being- but popular culture doesn't promote peace and prosperity by the demand for such movies and shows. It clearly demonstrates its never ending bloodlust for violence. I also understand the need for guns in defending ones self-be it a citizen, military or LEO. If there was a way to disarm or disable someone from a distance, without killing them- then I could say we are on a path to utopia- but even then, the method of doing this could be potentially abused. I think it was Einstein who said we would likely use rocks after all weapons had been used up- violence is just an ongoing part of humanity. It's what we are capable of, and we demonstrate it with great regularity. The person with the advantage is the person with the greater force. It's a law of physics. Whatever defies gravity with ease will always be superior to that which doesn't.   I am glad I am able to speak my mind, I love free speech, and I love living in a nation where one has the right to free speech. In some nations, one can be tortured or imprisoned just for thinking differently- to speak those thoughts aloud is a call for action ending in death. Would our society be better if we could all agree on everything? No, there would never be anything innovative. Without innovation, progress isn't possible. Thinking prohibition is the only answer- that it works, and the War On Some Drug's is being won, is clearly anything but "SANITY."  
[ Post Comment ]




 


Comment #33 posted by FoM on March 05, 2005 at 22:22:36 PT

runruff 
You're welcome. I've had that page for a long time now. It helps me to put things in perspective.
[ Post Comment ]




 


Comment #32 posted by runruff on March 05, 2005 at 22:09:05 PT:

Thanx
FoMThank you for the URL. I did not know that.It sounds like wisdom to me.Down with trolls.
Up with CNews.Namaste
[ Post Comment ]




 


Comment #31 posted by FoM on March 05, 2005 at 21:34:59 PT

runruff 
I don't know who he or she was but it was rude and took what Breeze said out of context. That's trolling in my book.http://www.freedomtoexhale.com/troll.htm
[ Post Comment ]




 


Comment #30 posted by runruff on March 05, 2005 at 21:31:38 PT:

Insullts
I believe "Sanity" is either a cop or just sounds like one.If this is an insult then so be it!
[ Post Comment ]





 


Comment #29 posted by FoM on March 05, 2005 at 21:17:21 PT

Just a Note
This person just registered and he or she must know that we don't insult each other on CNews. He won't be posting here anymore.
[ Post Comment ]





 


Comment #28 posted by The GCW on March 05, 2005 at 20:58:30 PT

We must speak out.
?"?"?"How about waiting until the families have a chance to bury their dead before you start whining about your "freedom of speech" "?"?"As long as the politicians and police types run their mouth's to make the prohibition more harsh, We must not stop speaking out.Cannabis is not to be so quickly blamed for the death of those officers.Ignorance isn't going to be allowed to run wild...
[ Post Comment ]





 


Comment #27 posted by Sanity on March 05, 2005 at 20:46:41 PT

Really Bad Taste
Real classy post about "bungling...law enforcement." Are you really so into cannabis that you see the death of four RCMP officers as a nuisance on your way to "reform?" Calling the reporting of the cold-blooded murder of four innocent RCMP officers a "shameless manipulation" is despicable. Four people are dead dude, and their kids have to live with that for the rest of their lives. I'm really, really sorry that it's inconvenienced you. Acting like you're some kind of victim of these murders as you sit in your mom's basement smoking dope and hoping against hope that pot will be legalized makes you one of the most self-absorbed people on earth. How about waiting until the families have a chance to bury their dead before you start whining about your "freedom of speech" being infringed. And while you're waiting, check into a treatment center. Because just like Breeze said, "Most people tend to overlook the fact that most people who need treatment for [marijuana addiction] frequently deny that they have a disorder."  
[ Post Comment ]





 


Comment #26 posted by breeze on March 05, 2005 at 20:21:52 PT

Can you spell Police State?
The matter is simple. Prohibition creates a black market.
Right now, it is reported that some 11 million people are addicted to meth. There are severe dangers in the manufacturing of the drug, but people create the substance anyway- sometimes, children are within the perimeter of the hazrdous chemicals. The residue that it leaves behind is caustic and extremely hazardous. Cannabis does nothing but grow. Its a living thing. It needs light, water and a growing medium (food). It does nothing hazardous, it merely sits there and does what every botanical living thing does- it simply grows. No processing, no chemicals, no hazards. No dangers to children, no dangers to people, no hazards at all.Meth though, has MANY hazards. Not only in its production, but in its usage as well. People suffer SEVERE health problems from using it. The irony is that it is made from LEGAL substances. And then there is the money that people earn from manufacturing/dealing in the stuff. The price of meth goes up as it becomes scarce, and people who are addicted to a substance tend to get violent when they don't get their "fix." Sometimes people will even kill for it.There have been stories in the news about it- but the media tend to FOCUS on cannabis more so than anything else. Again, prohibition CREATES a black market- and people deal whatever the market calls for. In the 80's crack cocaine was an issue, it still is- but meth is cheaper so I am told. I don't mean to slam any particular group of people- but I was told that many people who are in jobs that pay by the hour frequently use meth to maintain a schedule that allows them to stay awake for days, if not WEEKS on end. In a recent discussion I shared with a truck driver, he informed me that the books that are meant to keep a truck driver off of the highway for enough time to rest are easily manipulated. Even the devices on these vehicles that monitor the miles driven in a peorid of time are easy to manipulate- with the right know how and equipment. Still, not every truck has a monitoring device. Meth also exists the body quickly in the event of a drug test. I suppose this is a plus for using the drug in todays society- you can make lots of money while using the drug, and you have less of a chance of getting caught than with using cannabis. So, in lite of this- it is understandable how the "market" has changed to meet the desires and needs of it customers.To hear of four Mounties being shot is disturbing- even tragic. But to use their deaths to promote prohibition is macabre, and a true injustice. The man was in need of treatment for psychological disorders, but obviously never recieved it. The hourly rate for treatment is extreme, even if/when a person who has a mental disorder will admit that they have issues and willingly SEEK treatment. Most people tend to overlook the fact that most people who need treatment for psychological disorders frequently deny that they have a disorder. And even if a person who has a psychological disorder IS willing to seek counseling, it is unlikely that their medical insurance will cover the cost of treatment that they need. This is the same situation for drug abuse, it is quite costly as well. Usually the only way a person will pay for treatment for drug abuse is when they have an option of seeking professional help, or going to jail. Another thing one has to examine, is that people who have either of these conditions, usually don't have six figure incomes- which complicates the matter even further. If there is a will there is a way, though not always legal or moral. For when governments begin gauging their citizens for their moral terpitude, it really gets into violations of civil rights.I noticed in recent comments regarding the deaths of the four LEO's, that this should prove to the leaders of Canada that prohibition only leads to more and more violence. While this is true, you must consider that the laws considering cannabis in the US and other countries is the driving force behind the violence. It's not the plant, it's the legality of the plant. If the plant were legal- there would likely be a drop in the demand on the black market, as people could grow their own, or purchase it from a shop similar to a liqour store. How frequently do people buy their liqour from a local moonshiner? Is moonshing a significant problem in society today, as it was during the 1920's and 1930's? If it is, when was the last time you heard of an illegal liqour still being busted? When was the last time you heard of someone stealing great quantities of yeast and sugar being used to make such beverages? 
 
If ANYTHING, the deaths should demonstrate the need for Canadians to push for legalization of cannabis everywhere- but especially in the USA. Not everyone is willing to risk killing themselves or their children in order to manufacture meth, even though some do- I am quite sure that there is a significant number of people who wouldn't. I am also sure that if a campaign were in place to alert people that they are snorting drain cleaner, lighter fluid, lye and whatever else goes into making the stuff- people "might" think twice before heading down the road of addiction to meth. They might however take up gardening instead- which is also a very satisfying and fun hobby. I have even heard that caring for ANY living thing, such as a flower or animal is good for treating depression and boosting self-esteem. It is certainly the next logical step in the advancement of mankind, if not the only logical step.
[ Post Comment ]





 


Comment #25 posted by ekim on March 05, 2005 at 18:52:51 PT

Cole dealt with the emotional residue {or - ptsd}
Executive Director of LEAP
Boston, Massachusetts
jackacole leap.cc
 http://leap.cc/speakers/index.php
"This is Not a War on Drugs - it's a War on People." 
Jack Cole knows about the war on drugs from several perspectives. Cole retired as a Detective Lieutenant after a 26-year career with the New Jersey State Police. For twelve of those years Cole worked as an undercover narcotics officer. His investigations spanned the spectrum of possible cases, from street drug users and mid-level drug dealers in New Jersey to international "billion-dollar" drug trafficking organizations. Cole ended his undercover career living nearly two years in Boston and New York City, posing as a fugitive drug dealer wanted for murder, while tracking members of a terrorist organization that robbed banks, planted bombs in corporate headquarters, court-houses, police stations, and airplanes and ultimately murdered a New Jersey State Trooper. After retiring, Cole dealt with the emotional residue left from his participation in the unjust war on drugs by working to reform current drug policy. He moved to Boston to continue his education. Cole holds a B.A. in Criminal Justice and a Masters degree in Public Policy. Currently writing his dissertation for the Public Policy Ph.D. Program at the University of Massachusetts, his major focus is on the issues of race and gender bias, brutality and corruption in law enforcement. Cole believes ending drug prohibition will go a long way toward correcting those problems. A national and international speaker, Cole has taught courses to police recruits and veteran officers on ethics, integrity, moral decision-making, and the detrimental effects of racial profiling. He has spoken about drug policy: in colleges and universities; on many radio programs; and at conferences across the United States; and he has addressed the European Parliament, in Brussels, Belgium, on the subject of US drug policy.Cole is passionate in his belief that the drug war is steeped in racism, that it is needlessly destroying the lives of young people, and that it is corrupting our police. Cole's discussions give his audience an alternative prospective of the US war on drugs from the view of a veteran drug-warrior turned against the war.
 
http://www.leap.cc/events/
[ Post Comment ]





 


Comment #24 posted by FoM on March 05, 2005 at 18:44:56 PT

Details Emerge About Killer of Canadian Mounties
Excerpt from article:March 5, 2005The shooting has sparked debate over the government's plans to decriminalize marijuana possession, but town residents and criminologists say they do not believe the suspect, James Roszko, 46, opened fire to protect a pot crop.Roszko was also killed in the incident. It has been widely reported he turned his gun on himself.http://www.alertnet.org/thenews/newsdesk/N05665140.htm
[ Post Comment ]





 


Comment #23 posted by global_warming on March 05, 2005 at 17:54:43 PT

Rozko,James --Disceased
"Together, as citizens and as a society, we must continue to seek an end to the threat and injustice drug-related crimes bring to our neighbourhoods and communities across the country. That is precisely the goal these four officers were pursuing when they fell, and as Canadians we owe it to their memory to continue their work." British Columbia Premier Gordon Campbell. "The only injustice that this world has, is that narrow mindset, those people that can only see the wall of their unseen fears, distractions from the truth.What is truth, that same aged old question that always surfaces,Truth, may be illusive, but even to the most humble, it can be seen, that such oppressions, and denials, only delay that most final moment, that instant in time, when all our actions, our every decision, will be scrutinized, in full detail, and even the most unworthy, will be your best friend.gw
Rozko,James --Disceased
[ Post Comment ]





 


Comment #22 posted by runruff on March 05, 2005 at 17:32:48 PT:

The value of the black market.
Back in 1994 when I was making my video and making guest appearences on tv and radio stations around the west coast advocating pot legalization, I was getting all kinds of harassment from the local sherrifs depatment. They were involved in the pot trade too it turns out. The local D.A. Tim Thompson was also a user and grower. After a nasty break up between him and his wife she told on him after he spent 20 years putting people away for the same thing he was doing. He was reassigned to a nice job in Salem on the state labor board. Several pot cops went down with him. But I caught as much flack from my friends and nieghbors who were against what I was doing as well. Black market pot was worth 1,ooo times more than legal pot. A fifth grader could figure that out.I live in the pot growing capital of Oregon.
[ Post Comment ]





 


Comment #21 posted by FoM on March 05, 2005 at 17:20:38 PT

Question
Where are the pictures of the 20 plants? Usually you see them carrying them out or something.***Royal Canadian Mounted Police investigators look inside a building that housed a marijuana grow-op, March 5, 2005, in Mayerthorpe, Alberta, northwest of Edmonton. Four RCMP officers were slain by a gunman on the site while serving a search warrant. Photo by Dan Riedlhuber http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/050305/ids_photos_ca_wl/ra1622086838.jpg
[ Post Comment ]





 


Comment #20 posted by global_warming on March 05, 2005 at 17:14:32 PT

anti
"I'm shocked Walters hasn't mentioned this whole ordeal on his new "blog." (www.pushingback.com) If it were a REAL blog the gov't vultures would let us post our comments. they're afraid of what real people think."I'm shocked that so many more people have died, because of this prohibition,I'm shocked that so many criminals of this prohibition, are becoming so rich and powerful.I'm shocked that there are so many stupefied people that keep electing such greedy people into power.I'm shocked that our prison, Is becoming more obvious,gw
[ Post Comment ]





 


Comment #19 posted by aztoker420 on March 05, 2005 at 16:43:05 PT:

I'm shocked
I'm shocked Walters hasn't mentioned this whole ordeal on his new "blog." (www.pushingback.com) If it were a REAL blog the gov't vultures would let us post our comments. they're afraid of what real people think.
[ Post Comment ]





 


Comment #18 posted by The GCW on March 05, 2005 at 15:44:44 PT

Cannabis is not the cause of the deaths or
Cannabis is not the cause of the deaths orif cannabis was the cause,there would be a trail of dead officers from coast to coast.
[ Post Comment ]





 


Comment #17 posted by global_warming on March 05, 2005 at 14:43:00 PT

I Forgot
The corporate folks, who have one eye on their indecent "profits" and the other eye on mine and yours "fruits of our labors"gw
[ Post Comment ]





 


Comment #16 posted by global_warming on March 05, 2005 at 14:37:54 PT

re#15
"I have absolutely no idea how or why they're doing this. Pipe shops are licensed businesses for the sale of tobacco products; an age minimum of 18 is enforced and patrons are required to show ID. Perhaps they've been surveilling the shops to see if drug deals are being made outside."It must be very evident by now the "anti's" and the "the war mongers" are sleeping together.It is sad to see so many good people swallowed up in all this nonsense.gw
[ Post Comment ]





 


Comment #15 posted by rchandar on March 05, 2005 at 14:11:01 PT:

AOLBites
ummm...I have absolutely no idea how or why they're doing this. Pipe shops are licensed businesses for the sale of tobacco products; an age minimum of 18 is enforced and patrons are required to show ID. Perhaps they've been surveilling the shops to see if drug deals are being made outside.But even then, in virtually every "headshop" I've been to in the United States (quite a few), there's a sign prominently displayed behind the clerk: "Anyone referring to the sale or use of illegal substances will be asked to leave the premises."They have no legal right to do this. Unless the headshop people are selling, they have no right to bust the shops. None.--rchandar
[ Post Comment ]





 


Comment #14 posted by mayan on March 05, 2005 at 12:50:59 PT

END PROHIBITION!!!
The slaying of four young RCMP officers in rural Alberta is being cited by some as evidence of the dangers marijuana grow ops pose to the public and police and has brought renewed calls for tougher laws and sentences.The tactic of spinning this tradgedy into justification for tougher laws is obviously already back-firing! Great article!THE WAY OUT IS THE WAY IN...Art Bell To Host Popular Mechanics 9/11 Debunker Tonight!
http://rense.com/general63/bellchert.htm9/11 AND CHERTOFF: COUSIN WROTE 9/11 PROPAGANDA FOR POPULAR MECHANICS! 
http://www.rumormillnews.com/cgi-bin/forum.cgi?read=66176"I Made a Promise" - The Journey of a Wall Street Whistleblower: 
http://www.911truth.org/article.php?story=200503012312317939/11 commissioners seek revised aviation security report:
http://911citizenswatch.org/modules.php?op=modload&name=News&file=article&sid=492&mode=thread&order=0&thold=0
[ Post Comment ]





 


Comment #13 posted by FoM on March 05, 2005 at 11:52:06 PT

Words
kaptinemo I know what you mean. I really do. 
[ Post Comment ]





 


Comment #12 posted by kaptinemo on March 05, 2005 at 11:48:35 PT:

Once more: FRAME THE DEBATE!
Language is like a two edged knife; you have to be careful in handling it.*The whole reason grow ops exist is because of prohibition," Oscapella said yesterday. "This is very simple economics and it's really appalling that the governments, not just this but the past governments, profess to have such a sophisticated understanding of economics but can't seem to grasp the fact that they've created this incredibly powerful, lucrative and violent black market in Canada." *This is a great start, and makes the point so clearly, only the deliberately obtuse would be able to keep a straight face after being presented with the facts. GOVERNMENTS CREATE THE PROBLEMS CAUSED BY PROHIBITION.But this is troublesome:*Jack Cole...who now heads the pro-legalization Law Enforcement Against Prohibition (LEAP)...*People, as much as I hate to say this, especially after these LEO's were killed, as it would give the false impression of callousness, but we need now more than ever to grab the frame of the debate away from the antis. And the word 'legalization' is like waving a red cape in front of a raging bull for most people. We are, if anything ANTI-PROHIBITION. We need to quit using the opposition's terms and start using our own.Again and again and again...it's PROHIBITION that has created the black markets and fuels the violence. We are ANTI-PROHIBITION. As our ideological ancestors were during alcohol Prohibition, we, not the faux moralists, have taken the *true* morally justifiable stance. We seek to end the violence and bloodshed; those who make such loud claims of moral superiority in castigating our position are the ones from whose hands the blood drips. And will continue to. For all their posturing, the antis reside in the same gutter with the amoral dealer who sells to kids. Once more, for those who have never seen these, I suggest that you take a good look at some cartoons from the era of Prohibition 1: http://www.drugpolicycentral.com/bot/pg/images/prohibition_era_cartoons/index.htm and then see how the reformers who came before us made the same connections. They show beyond all doubt that the faux moralists and the criminal are bonded incestuously in a sick symbiosis. It's long past time this union be exposed repeatedly in terms that fit today's culture.
[ Post Comment ]





 


Comment #11 posted by FoM on March 05, 2005 at 11:19:31 PT

Truck Dispute Led To RCMP Tragedy
 March 5, 2005 CBC NewsMAYERTHORPE, ALTA. - The chain of events that ended in the deaths of four RCMP officers on an Alberta farm began with efforts to repossess a pickup truck. Suspect James Roszko had stopped payments on the truck, and the Edmonton dealership financing the vehicle sent a bailiff to take it back, his sister told CBC News. http://www.cbc.ca/story/canada/national/2005/03/05/rcmp-shooting050305.html
[ Post Comment ]





 


Comment #10 posted by MikeEEEEE on March 05, 2005 at 11:03:09 PT

Drug Problem
There wasn't a true drug problem until drugs were made illegal. With the stroke of a pen instantly they made a whole class of people crimmals. 
[ Post Comment ]





 


Comment #9 posted by FoM on March 05, 2005 at 10:47:01 PT

Something's Wrong With The Movie's Link
http://www.thecorporation.com/
[ Post Comment ]





 


Comment #8 posted by FoM on March 05, 2005 at 10:42:53 PT

About The Corporation
The release date for The Corportation is April 5, 2005! I'm going to buy it as soon as it's released!http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/B0007DBJM8/qid=1110047994/sr=8-1/ref=pd_csp_1/104-9432688-4086313?v=glance&s=dvd&n=507846
[ Post Comment ]





 


Comment #7 posted by Richard Paul Zuckerm on March 05, 2005 at 10:37:23 PT:

THE RISE OF CORPORATISM AND PHARMACEUTICAL CARTEL!
The United Nations International Narcotics Treaties. Laws against Cannabis. The difficulty of bringing up motor vehicles which operate on alternative sources of fuel. The Codex Alimentarious movement [to have herbs and vitamins on prescription only]. The United States governmental secret agreements with China and Russia. This globalization by the two headed snake of Democrats and Republicans, United States government, Council on Foreign Relations, the Rothschilds, are part of the law against Cannabis. I only vote for Ralph Nader, Libertarian Party candidates, and Green Party candidates, EXCLUSIVELY! The last time I voted for either a Democrat or Republican was Dennis Peron, when he ran for Mexifornia, uh, I mean California, Governor, back in around 1997. I would vote for the United States House of Representatives whom are members of the Liberty Caucus, people like U.S. Representative Ron Paul (R-Texas), though. I'm awaiting the public availability of the DVD from www.thecorporation.com. 
[ Post Comment ]





 


Comment #6 posted by Sam Adams on March 05, 2005 at 10:23:13 PT

media
At least some voices are being heard and read in Canada on legalization. I've never seen 1 article in the US discussing legalization after a MJ-related shooting (and we've had plenty, usually it's other civilians that are shot by criminals or police). However, I do tire of the constant naivete of journalists and editors, or maybe I should say "feigned naivete". I mean, do you really believe knee-jerk politicians don't "seem to know" anything but Prohibition? Bullsh**! They're fasicsts - aspiring totalitarians. Why is it so hard to indict them and call them what they really are? They'll exloit ANY tragedy, EVERY time, to try to seize more power and control over us. They know EXACTLY what they're doing. Evil men and women have taken control of North America, maybe that's too scary for some people to say.  Maybe it's more comforting to think you're ruled by benevolent, gentle, but slightly misguided folk.But let's call a spade a spade. You can wait several lifetimes for politicians to "figure it out". The media needs to ram the change down their throats. Let's see these legalization articles on the front page every day for a year until they change. That's the way Nixon was taken down. That's the way the Catholic priests were stopped. That's the way racial segregation & discrimination was stopped. It's the only way we'll get any change.

[ Post Comment ]





 


Comment #5 posted by AOLBites on March 05, 2005 at 10:23:09 PT

OT:
Agents Raid Stores Suspected Of Selling Drug Paraphernalia
$2 Million Worth Of Items ConfiscatedPOSTED: 1:24 am EST March 5, 2005
UPDATED: 10:18 am EST March 5, 2005ORLANDO, Fla. -- Authorities in Orange County, Fla., confiscated $2 million worth of items this weekend from five stores that allegedly sell drug paraphernalia, according to Local 6 News.
Agents Raid Stores Suspected Of Selling Drug Paraphernalia
[ Post Comment ]





 


Comment #4 posted by FoM on March 05, 2005 at 10:00:07 PT

20 Plants!
Excerpt:The man sped off and the sheriff called the RCMP for assistance, the warrant says. When the Mounties arrived at the farm, they found what they say was stolen truck parts and about 20 marijuana plants.http://www.cbc.ca/story/canada/national/2005/03/05/rcmp-shooting050305.htmlThanks Josh!

[ Post Comment ]





 


Comment #3 posted by FoM on March 05, 2005 at 09:52:32 PT

Spin Control Time
I get so annoyed with spinning news. That's all I can think to call it. I believe go slow and think and respond. Most of the articles on the Internet are what I call hysterical articles. The man that killed the 4  RCMP was seriously mentally ill and we need to make sure that people know that one madman shouldn't stop reform.
[ Post Comment ]





 


Comment #2 posted by afterburner on March 05, 2005 at 09:45:25 PT

Thanks All Activists & Dignitaries for Speaking Up
We cannot allow the bungling of governments and law enforcement to turn back the progress of cannabis law reform, the way they did in the 1970's. We will never again surrender our freedoms, even in the face of shameless manipulation of a terrible tragedy by government politicians and law enforcement officers."Please write a short letter ( hand written, original letters may receive closer attention ) stating your opinion to The Prime Minister of Canada, Office of the Prime Minister, Ottawa, Ont. , K1A 0A2 . These letters are postage free [in Canada]." If you are concerned about possible political and/or legal persecution as a result of voicing your concerns, write an anonymous letter and include your concerns about violations of freedom of speech in your letter. We will no longer stand for being treated as second-class citizens or worse, and we will no longer stay silent!
[ Post Comment ]





 


Comment #1 posted by Hope on March 05, 2005 at 09:45:06 PT

Amazing
This article is full of sanity and truth.
[ Post Comment ]








  Post Comment