cannabisnews.com: Obtuse Laws Can Be Instruments of Oppression










  Obtuse Laws Can Be Instruments of Oppression

Posted by CN Staff on August 29, 2004 at 10:58:36 PT
By Alan Young 
Source: Toronto Star  

Last week reknown pot activist, Marc Emery, was sentenced to 3 months in prison for the crime of passing a joint at a pro-pot, political demonstration in Saskatoon. Last year the Supreme Court of Canada upheld our pot possession law partly on the basis that the court believed nobody would ever be sent to prison for smoking this plant. Apparently our highest court knows nothing about prairie justice.
Like many political agitators, Emery was actually a victim of linguistic chaos. Often our criminal law is drafted in vague, overbroad terms and this lack of linguistic precision can give officials enormous powers to stifle dissent. In this case, Emery fell victim to the overbroad definition of "trafficking," which includes the mere act of giving. Even though every Canadian reasonably assumes that a drug trafficker is defined as a person who profits from peddling illicit substances, the law extends the definition to charitable acts. Every pot smoker is a trafficker because every pot smoker will at some point pass a joint to a fellow consumer.The smokers may be guilty of possession, but our highest court has pledged that pot smokers should never be jailed for simple possession. Emery was charged as a trafficker because drug traffickers are presumptively sentenced to prison. By distorting reality, the crown and court found a convenient way to silence those who challenge the established order.In the 1970s, when the Charter of Rights was just a glimmer in Trudeau's eye, courts had referred to the statutory extension of trafficking to include giving as "distasteful." Surely in the Charter era, a distasteful provision should be invalidated as unconstitutional. In 1980, the Quebec Court of Appeal noted that "one can certainly hope that the Crown will exercise a certain amount of discretion before relying upon a mere giving in support of a charge of trafficking." Assuming that those in power in Saskatoon understand that the prairie provinces have not been exempted from the Charter, I think the decision of the police and prosecutors to charge Emery with trafficking is a fairly clear indication that public officials acted in a mean-spirited manner to punish an outspoken critic. Political dissent in public spaces is not alive and well in Canada. Democratic ideals are undercut by the criminal law. Whether it be the 1997 protest at the APEC conference in Vancouver, or the 2001 anti-globalization demonstration in Quebec City, police walk into the melee armed with a large cache of vague and overbroad criminal laws. With this much legal ammunition, they can shut down a demonstration on a moment's notice. First, they can arrest and remove anyone who is in "breach of the peace." I have no idea when there is a breach but it does not bode well when there is case law holding that shouting through a megaphone will do. Then there is Officer Friendly's best friend — the offence of "cause disturbance." You can be arrested for causing a disturbance in a public place by "fighting, screaming, shouting, swearing, singing or using insulting or obscene language." Forget about singing "We Shall Overcome"; protests in Canada should be orderly, polite and courteous. Let Miss Manners be the Master of Ceremonies and everything will be just fine.Canada is also not big on crowd scenes. If three or more people assemble and cause the community to reasonably fear this assembly will "disturb the police tumultuously," the offence of "unlawful assembly" is committed. This is an offence committed on virtually every Three Stooges episode. Finally, the Criminal Code goes on to define the serious offence of "riot" as an "unlawful assembly that has begun to disturb the peace tumultuously."The drafters of the code really liked this word "tumultuously." This adverb is the defining threshold between hanging out with friends and an unlawful assembly, or a riot. This threshold has been attacked as unconstitutionally vague, but courts have upheld the provisions, stating that the tumultuous means "chaotic, disorderly, clamorous or uproarious." Thanks for the synonyms, but this does not help. The bottom line is that police arbitrarily decide when a demonstration of uproarious fun becomes a riot of clamorous evil, just as Saskatoon police decided to transform Emery's political act of sharing a joint into a crime of trafficking. People mistakenly believe that the health and vitality of a democracy is maintained by the regular ritual of campaign and election. Elections are important but the real spirit of democracy is measured by the scope of the freedom to take to the streets for vigorous protest demanding political change. The vast arsenal of overbroad and vague laws we have created to preserve public order can imperil the true essence of democracy. The language of the law is not the language of ordinary men and women. For example, the word "cattle" is defined in the Criminal Code to include "horse, mule, ass, pig, sheep or goat." This is not just a zoological nightmare; the law becomes a trap when its language dramatically departs from ordinary usage. Emery is not a trafficker. Protestors are not rioters. Flying in the face of linguistic precision, the criminal law has the potential to become a tool of political oppression.Alan Young is a law professor, criminal lawyer and author of Justice Defiled: Perverts, Potheads, Serial Killers & Lawyers (Key Porter). Complete Title: Sweeping, Obtuse Laws Can Be Instruments of Oppression - May Be Used To Stifle Legitimate ProtestSource: Toronto Star (CN ON)Author: Alan YoungPublished: August 29, 2004Copyright: 2004 The Toronto Star Contact: lettertoed thestar.com Website: http://www.thestar.com/ Related Articles & Web Site:Cannabis News Canadian Linkshttp://freedomtoexhale.com/can.htmPot Activist Jailedhttp://cannabisnews.com/news/thread19364.shtmlEmery Charged with Traffickinghttp://cannabisnews.com/news/thread18541.shtmlCannabisNews -- Canada Archiveshttp://cannabisnews.com/news/list/Canada.shtml

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Comment #25 posted by afterburner on September 01, 2004 at 22:56:33 PT
Canada's Strength Is to View USA with Critical Eye
Notice how many popular actors, especially comedians, are from Canada. Having grown up in a kind of international alternate reality, Canadians are somewhat detached from the American fervour. For pot culture many gains have been made here through civil disobedience and the courts. The Canadian cannabis community is not going to stand by and allow Prime Minister Martin's minority government to ignore the NDP's support for legal cannabis and instead to establish a US-style Drug War and to wash away the gains for which we have fought so hard. Canadian cannabists are becoming a nation of Gandhi-businesspeople. 
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Comment #24 posted by FoM on September 01, 2004 at 22:36:16 PT
Thanks afterburner
I think I have a problem trying to figure out Canada because it's different that here in the states. Look what they did to Tommy Chong. In Canada you seem more gutsy then us. We've had so many people hurt by the laws that it's hard to understand how it all works in Canada. We are much more oppressed. 
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Comment #23 posted by afterburner on September 01, 2004 at 22:18:06 PT
Activists to Fight the Martin Government in Court
The constitutionality of cannabis prohibition is still in limbo, due to Health Canada's refusal to allow a caregiver to provide medical cannabis for more than one patient as directed by the Ontario Court of Appeal's Oct.7.2003 ruling. The Ontario Court of Appeal rewrote the MMAR (Medical Marijuana Access Regulations) in order to save cannabis prohibition, as they had previously declared the law dead. Health Canada is in contempt of court. Therefore, the MMAR has not been successfully rewritten, and therefore, cannabis prohibition is still unconstitutional and the law is still dead, at least in Ontario. Other provincial courts would have to confirm the ruling in order to spread the cannabis freedom across Canada. (There is also the Grant Krieger case in Alberta that Turmel talks about. I think it invalidated the trafficking law, but it was stayed. Ask Virgil for more details.) Since the only mention of cannabis in the Canadian Controlled Drugs and Substances Act (CDSA) is in Schedule 2, cannabis possession can be removed from the law only by removing it from Schedule 2. Since both the trafficking and cultivation prohibitions both refer to Schedule 2, they are also invalid for cannabis and "not known to the law." Of course, the Paul Martin government does not like to admit this, anymore than the Chretien government did between August 1, 2001 (Terry Parker Day) and October 7, 2003, the OCA ruling that supposedly resurrected cannabis prohibition. If cannabis is no longer in Schedule 2, then cannabis prohibition (possession, cultivation, and trafficking) does not exist in Ontario. The only way to force the Canadian government to acknowledge this reality is by standing up for our rights to free cannabis, and if necessary getting arrested and challenging the law again and again in court. Since the CDSA is under federal jurisdiction, if cannabis prohibition is dead in Ontario, or Alberta, it is dead across Canada. At this point the Paul Martin government rather than co-operating with the courts, has directed RCMP and police forces across Canada to enforce the dead law. In Toronto arrests were made on Canabian Day and the event was shut down. Jody Pressman, organizer of the Ottawa Fill the Hill political protest for legal cannabis, was told by RCMP officers that that the event would never be held again since they would not approve permits, provide electricity, and they will arrest cannabis tokers. Da Kine, a cannabis cafe in Vancouver selling BC Bud, has received increased police scrutiny. Don't forget the arson next door to the BC Marijuana Party Headquarters, Marc Emery Seeds and Pot-TV (not that the police were involved, but it was part of a pattern of repression). So far two patrons of the Up in Smoke cafe have been arrested. Marc Emery gets 3 months for passing a joint ("obtuse laws can be instruments of oppression"). The Toronto Compassion Club is one of many in Canada that have been harassed by the police. The patrons of Hamilton’s Up in Smoke cafe are members of the Hamilton Compassion Society, including the two that were arrested. Philip Lucas of the Vancouver Compassion Society was prepared to embark on medical cannabis research until the RCMP seized the medical cannabis that was earmarked for the research. Health Canada’s MMAR exemption application process is long and complicated and few people are approved. Is there a pattern here? I think so.Marijuana cafe owner says cannabis laws should be done away with
Canoe.ca, Canada - 4 hours ago
... "Every law to do with cannabis has to be taken off the books," said Carol Gwilt, owner of Da Kine Smoke and Beverage Shop on Vancouver's hip Commercial Drive. ... http://cnews.canoe.ca/CNEWS/Law/Marijuana/2004/09/01/612170-cp.html
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Comment #22 posted by FoM on September 01, 2004 at 20:29:53 PT

afterburner
I get the CCC list and I have been trying to sort this whole thing out. I archived this article because of the news that is happening down here with the convention etc. Is it legal to sell Cannabis anywhere in Canada? I don't really understand how businesses try to operate when the laws aren't changed yet. Am I confused or something?Marijuana Cafe Owner Says Cannabis Laws Should Be Done Away With: http://www.cannabisnews.com/news/thread19425.shtml
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Comment #21 posted by afterburner on September 01, 2004 at 20:23:42 PT

2nd Arrest at Hamilton's Up in Smoke Cafe
Up In Smoke Cafe Busts!
Pot-TV 
 
Running Time: 6 min 
Date Entered: 31 Aug 2004 
Viewer Rating: 7.10 (3 votes) 
Number of Views: 480 
 ' Chris Bennett on the phone with Chris Goodwin from the Up In Smoke Cafe, in Hamilton Ontario.
76 year old woman with MS in a wheelchair is busted by Hamilton police and has a heart attack, as well as arrests of a youth and others. This is outrageous! ' http://www.pot-tv.net/archive/shows/pottvshowse-2935.htmlProprietor Chris Goodwin explains both the 1st and 2nd arrests and his reaction to police harassment in a telephone call with Chris Bennett. 

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Comment #20 posted by afterburner on September 01, 2004 at 09:22:23 PT

MM Patient Up in Smoke
Reports on the first arrest inside Hamilton's Up in Smoke Cannabis Cafe indicate that an elderly medical cannabis patient, possibly with a Health Canada Medical Marijuana exemption, was arrested by Hamilton police for cannabis possession due to toking a medical cannabis joint inside the cafe. The details are somewhat contradictory regarding the age of the patient, let's say in her 70's, and with respect to subsequent a health problem precipitated by the arrest. The details are available from a subscription source, The Hamilton Spectator, Tuesday, August 31, 2004, page 1. Another version of the details is available from the Cannabis Culture Forum and from POT-TV: Marc Emery Prison Blog - Day 13 http://www.pot-tv.net/archive/shows/pottvshowse-2936.html  
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Comment #19 posted by FoM on September 01, 2004 at 08:21:38 PT

News Article from Broadcast News
Pot Cafe May Close Its Doors
 
 Wednesday, September 01, 2004  
VANCOUVER - A budding business on Vancouver's east side may have gone up in smoke.The Da Kine Cafe has apparently been selling marijuana over the counter for the past four months. The owners claimed the city and police knew about it and still approved a business licence. But after a media report on the Amsterdam-style cafe, staff closed the doors early Tuesday, leaving dozens of cannabis customers out of luck. Vancouver civic officials and police deny they approved of the pot sales. Constable Sarah Bloor says the cafe hasn't been on the police radar because no one has complained. One resident who lives near the Commercial Drive business is hoping the cafe reopens soon, saying it keeps drug dealers off the street. Copyright: Broadcast News, Global BC 2004

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Comment #18 posted by FoM on August 30, 2004 at 16:34:51 PT

afterburner
That was a good article. I guess that's why men and women see things so differently. We compliment one another.
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Comment #17 posted by afterburner on August 30, 2004 at 16:21:22 PT

Fight or Flight vs. Tend and Befriend
Stress and the Sexes The Nurturing InstinctBy Jeanie Lerche Davis
WebMD Feature Archive Reviewed By Gary Vogin, MD
on Monday, July 15, 2002 ' When trouble's brewing, a guy will battle it out -- or grab a cold one and sulk. Women will likely reach for the phone, talk it out with a friend. Men and women just don't deal with stress in the same way. ' If you've taken a psychology course in the past 50 years, you're familiar with the concept of "fight or flight" -- the supposedly automatic human stress response that has been linked to all sorts of health problems, including heart disease. ' But new research -- drawing on psychology, genetics, evolutionary biology, and neuroscience -- shows that there are distinct differences in how men and women react to stressors or aggressors. While men will fight -- or simply hide -- women have a stronger instinct to "tend and befriend," says Shelley E. Taylor, PhD, a psychology professor at UCLA and author of The Tending Instinct. ' A woman is biologically hard-wired to nurture, provide comfort, and seek social support in times of stress, Taylor writes. Our hormones, brain chemistry, and response to the world around us all reflect this natural instinct. Men have this instinct too, but to a lesser degree because of hormone differences and personal choices, she says. ' "I'm proposing a different way of looking at human nature, one that orients us away from selfishness, greed, and aggression, one that looks at the multiple ways that people tend to each other's needs," Taylor tells WebMD. ' We can see it in recent tragedies, she says. "We look at Sept. 11 and see proof of aggressive nature, but you can also see substantial proof of our tending nature as well. The ways in which people took care of each other was really very striking."' Natural Strength' Providing care, befriending others -- it's a drive that can be found in the earliest cultures, says Taylor. Evidence also exists around the world today and in other species, like rats and monkeys, that women naturally bond, especially in times of stress. ' "It's a female's instinct to protect our offspring from harm, to get food," she tells WebMD. In the most primitive hunter-gatherer cultures, "women who turned to women friends for help probably accomplished those two vital tasks better than those who did not." ' The long-held tradition of babysitting is a good example, she says. "Taking care of another's offspring is a very, very old tradition among women. Primarily, you left them with female relatives, but you also left them with friends. And if you're going to leave your children with someone, you need to know as much as you can about them." ' The tendency to befriend begins early in childhood, Taylor adds. "Whereas boys are playing action-oriented, aggressive games in large groups, girls are playing in small groups. They sit close together, they touch each other more, they are together ... establishing intimate friendships." ' The Biology Behind It' The complexity of our hormones drives this instinct, says Taylor. ' When the "fight or flight" response kicks in, there are two factors at work, she explains. On the biological end, there's arousal of the sympathetic nervous system as well as the hormones -- and that's true for both men and women. The heart starts pounding and adrenaline pumps in response to fear. ' But in women, the hormone oxytocin seems to down-regulate that stress response, she says. Oxytocin is released during labor and nursing, and creates bonding between mother and child. It's also a stress hormone that is released during some stressful events, reliably producing a state of calm so she can care for her children. Estrogen and progesterone enhance this maternal behavior, she says. ' Consider a study of female sheep: When injected with oxytocin, their maternal behavior increased greatly, reports Taylor. "The mother sheep groomed and touched their infants more after the oxytocin injection, behaviors that both reflected the mother's calm, nurturing mind and induced a similar soothed state in the offspring," she writes. ' When female animals are injected with oxytocin, they also "behave as if a social switch has been turned on: they seek out more social contact with their friends and relatives," she writes. ' Men (and male animals) also have oxytocin, but testosterone appears to reduce the effects, she adds. Fatherhood is likely more flexible -- men are good fathers when they choose to be, Taylor says. "With mothers, nature provides some firm biological nudges."' The Power of Nurturing' As we know, children who are nurtured fare better than those who do not. In fact, nurturing can even overcome some genetic-based behaviors, Taylor tells WebMD. ' One study involved rhesus monkeys with a genetic risk for low levels of serotonin, which is associated with moody and aggressive behavior. ' "If those animals don't get adequate maternal attention in infancy, they are basically shunned by their peers, left out of the dominance hierarchy," says Taylor. ' However, when they get good maternal care, the aggressive behavior often doesn't emerge. "Instead, the babies actually manage to achieve normal serotonin levels, and [when they grow up] they're often among the highest ranking animals in their troops," she says. ' "The sole thing that appears to differentiate these two groups is the amount of maternal tending they get," Taylor says.' Another Expert Weighs In' The "tend-and-befriend" theory is "worth pursuing," Jim Winslow, PhD, a behavioral neuroscience researcher at Yerkes Primate Research Center at Emory University in Atlanta, told WebMD in a previous interview on this subject. "It is true that in some primate species like the rhesus monkey, females will tend to maintain social status and reconcile social conflict by forming alliances and relying on social partners for support." ' This is not necessarily true of all monkeys or our nearest 'neighbors,' the chimps, Winslow tells WebMD. "In bonobo chimps, it's indeed the case that females resolve conflicts more often using ... relationships rather than fight-or-flight responses, but in female pygmy chimps, aggression is the predominant mode of expression." ' Winslow, who has been studying oxytocin for nearly a decade, tells WebMD that he doubts oxytocin is the mechanism that causes women to bond rather than fight. In fact, in men, the hormone vasopressin, which "does a really good job of enhancing a male's ability to bond," he tells WebMD. "So the genders aren't that different. The capacities are there in both genders. In humans, there are probably shades of differences. But we're talking shades of differences, not extremes." '--------------------------------------------------------------------------------© 2002 WebMD Inc. All rights reserved.--Stress and the Sexes - Trustworthy, Physician-Reviewed Information ... http://content.health.msn.com/content/article/48/39277.htmThink the difference in approach of Marc Emery, John Turmel, or Ed Rosenthal vs. Angel Raich, Diane Monson, or Valerie Corral.
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Comment #16 posted by FoM on August 30, 2004 at 14:37:16 PT

I'm Better and Smarter Then You Are!!!
That's how I see people who like to fight when we should be on the same side. All I see is I'm the best! Without me everything will fall apart! Actually look at me like I'm a god. Now I'm going overboard but that how I feel sometimes. I know that I am not valuable as an individual unless I am totally aware when it would be time to quit and fire up others to do what I do. I mind vanity. I pay attention to humility in activists. It must be a man thing to try to be better or do more then another. Maybe women act that way too but I haven't really seen that in the reform movement like with men! Hey I'm not knocking men but just trying to say how I see people who think they are really important.
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Comment #15 posted by afterburner on August 30, 2004 at 14:25:19 PT

Hostility, Frustration, Individuality and Strength
One thing that surprised me at Canabian Day 2003 was the amount of hostility of various cannabists toward each other. It has been said that organizing cannabis rallies "is like herding cats." Another reason I see for the hostility is the preponderance of men in the cannabis legalization movement, medical, spiritual, recreational, and social. We need more women's touches. Think how much more we could accomplish "if we could just get along." However, it is our individuality that is also our greatest strength. We challenge the government and its paranoid pot fantasies in so many ways that they have difficulty fending us all off. They have difficulty maintaining the fiction of protecting the children/the health of the public/the property of the people. In their blind zeal to punish the pot offenders, they cross the line into blatant vindictiveness and cruelty.  
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Comment #14 posted by Virgil on August 30, 2004 at 02:41:49 PT

Turmel and Emery
Turmel is a showman but I would give him the award for the most active activist in Canada award. He actually told the judge that they were hearing the cases in reverse order. What is sad is that there is not only a presentation of his views in the media, there is no presentation to the contrary.It is Emery that helped Overgrow the Government and grew the cannabis culture as well with his magazine and pot-tv. He also promoted ibogaine and had his adopted son that was addicted to heroin treated with it.It is a shame that you have to say not to shoot the messenger with Turmel, because he has done us all a great favor in working things through the courts and recording it all at Yahoo Groups.The main thing I was saying was that it was funny how they charged him with trafficking and not possession. I do believe that he could have avoided jail with a postponement . Even if that turns out not to be true, there was cause to ask for the postponement and my opinion is that it was a screw up not to ask for it. Again with Turmel, it is important to listen to the messages that are out there and not shoot the messenger. In this case if you shoot the messenger, you miss out on some very important messages, even if it is hard to figure out all the court cases and their meaning. 
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Comment #13 posted by ElPatricio on August 29, 2004 at 22:46:53 PT:

Giving Is Dealing To California Narcs
When they executed search warrants on 50 or more Sacramento-area residences suspected of growing pot, Placer County sheriff's deputies were angry when they encountered people who claimed they were qualified medical users. When interrogating the medical growers, a deputy would ask, "Did you share any with your spouse?" If they admitted they had, they were arrested for cultivation for sale, since sharing is equated with selling in California.I'm pleased to report that Placer County has modified its stance on medical marijuana since then.
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Comment #12 posted by FoM on August 29, 2004 at 19:35:26 PT

ron
I miss kapt too. Why don't you e-mail him and ask him to drop in? I'm sure he would appreciate it. 
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Comment #11 posted by ron on August 29, 2004 at 19:29:02 PT

Thanks for the Turmel link Virgil
As I understand it, Turmel feels that Marc and Alan pushed the Hitzig appeal before Parker (the weaker and less relavent case before the stronger one) and diverted the focus of the court and the citizenry. He seems to view Alan's arguments before the Supreme Court and Marc's guilty plea as grandstanding, since rulings on the Parker case are imminent. Turmel seems like a showman, but his comments on legal matters show an acute understanding of what's going on in Canada.A lot of us are angry at the persecutive idiocy that reigns over reason. Like FoM, I support the cause, not the individuals. John, Marc, and Alan are spearheads in our struggle, and each one has a target.That they can attack each other is sad for those of us who cherish unanimity, solidarity and purity in the causes they support, but natural among those who plow ahead of the rest of us.I miss kaptinemo's comments.
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Comment #10 posted by mayan on August 29, 2004 at 17:40:05 PT

Think About It...
Emery is in a cage because he passed plant material to another consenting adult. Canadians are not free. Americans sure as hell aren't free. Everyone who ever died for "freedom" in the service of either country died in vain. Our soldiers in Iraq aren't fighting for freedom. We are the ones who are fighting for freedom so that when those soldiers come back home they will still have some freedom left. Thank you, Alan Young, for helping to enlighten the masses as to how free they really aren't.Those who would cage another person for possessing or "trafficking" cannabis will meet justice someday very soon. The way out is the way in...Was Bush Complicit With The 9/11 Attacks? 
http://killtown.911review.org/bush.htmlBlow The Whistle On The 9/11 Cover-Up:
http://www.deceptiondollar.com/news/WhitleBlow.htmANALYZING THE 9/11 REPORT: Chapter 1: Omissions, Contradictions and Falsehoods: 
http://www.911citizenswatch.org/modules.php?op=modload&name=News&file=article&sid=389&mode=thread&order=0&thold=0$14 million and 18 months later:Why so many still unanswered questions?
http://www.911truth.org/article.php?story=20040812120152459/11 and the 'second Pearl Harbor': 
http://www.onlinejournal.com/Special_Reports/082504Burns/082504burns.html
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Comment #9 posted by Virgil on August 29, 2004 at 17:11:25 PT

Today's BS
Cannabis is a word and should not be a sentence.
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Comment #8 posted by FoM on August 29, 2004 at 14:46:22 PT

Our Laws in Ohio
What Marc did wouldn't have been more then a fine.Sale or delivery of 20 grams or less, for no remuneration, is considered possession and is punished with a fine of $100. http://www.norml.org/index.cfm?wtm_view=&Group_ID=4557
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Comment #7 posted by Virgil on August 29, 2004 at 14:37:16 PT

A thought on trafficking
What would happen if MMJ users gathered in a small room, say in California, and invited some people to join them. Would letting people draft a buzz, be trafficking. It would be passing THC from a legal user to an illegal user. The laws in California are so broad and the benefits to health so ubiquitous that most anyone could qualify for a doctor's recommendation and be a sizeable group. There could be a lot of smoke-filled rooms with lots of guest.
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Comment #6 posted by The GCW on August 29, 2004 at 14:25:20 PT

Marc Emery's record is good.
Emery has helped Our effort.He persued it the way He wants and puts His money into the effort.We will win by many different facets chipping away at that wall; Emery's one of the important people working to bring reality to Cannabis laws. Other Green Collar Workers are doing their important part and it is also different than what others will do but no less important.What is important is that We all contribute.And We are.I could only dream of helping the cause as much as Marc.This man is sitting in a cage right now, because of His commitment.And Lord He knows the Truth. 
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Comment #5 posted by FoM on August 29, 2004 at 13:34:09 PT

Virgil 
The way I look at it is this. I don't pay attention to infighting. Some people just love Marc Emery, some hate him and some like me just feel bad that he is in jail. I think using the word narc is cruel. Calling a person or persons a narc is about as bad as cursing them. 
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Comment #4 posted by Virgil on August 29, 2004 at 13:22:53 PT

I can spell defense
I think Turmel called Kreiger a narc and not a narc mole. My feeling is that he is glad he is not in jail and that his trial is over and he is happy to walk away without slapping the authorities by filing a motion, even though there is an importance to the cause of freedom and even though Turmel said he would do it for free. He survived his battle with injustice, but he is still highly wounded.
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Comment #3 posted by Virgil on August 29, 2004 at 13:13:03 PT

100,000 convicted for nonexistant crime
I find John Turmel the most interesting read on the Internet, even though it is hard to follow his train of thought at times because everything involves legal terms. He speaks of something being quashed and the closest thing I can put on it is a summary judgement by the judge to dismiss.Turmel calls Alan Young and Marc Emery "narc moles" and it is not worth pursuing further. He has cause to say that, byt U cannot undertake an explanation of why.There is still the question of how a court in Ontario can revive a dead law for all of Canada. I find it interesting that he was charged for trafficing, because it was in December the ruling of the Supreme Court acknowledged that the laws of possession were dead. It is the Kreiger decision that made cultivation no longer a crime according to Turmel. I think just recently Turmel called Kreiger a narc mole for not filling a simple document that would address a stay that would put a period on the cultivation laws in Alberta, even though Turmel says they are quite dead in elsewhere in Canada. I think he says they are dead in Alberta also, it is just that he wants Kreiger to pull the knife out of the corps.Turmel reads Cnews from time to time as he has put two comments of mine up on his yahoo pages. It would be nice if he could join us from time to time, but he is one busy man. You can see how Turmel is a lightning rod for criticism, but it was him that navigated the courts to bring us Terry Parker Day and it is him guiding people to say that the laws are dead. He has a saying "Parliament Only Legislates. Courts only abrogate." that he says he will say so often that he has reduced it to POLCOA.Anyway, he has cases thrown out with his defence and in a recent case the judge said the defence should claim an unlawful search in what Turmel says is a diversionary tactic to avoid the issue. There is already one judge pondering on the situation and there are more in the works. Turmel has his enemies and the media ignores him, but if you follow his website you can see that that his hammer is hitting a lot of nails. It is most interesting as only one judge has to acknowlege the laws are dead and POLCOA to make all the others look completely incompetent.But on "Narc Emery" as Turmel calls him, he says Emery should have asked for a postponement until the issue is decided. He says now that Emery will have served his 3 months by the time the decision will probably come.I am not trying to stir anything up, but I must say that crunch time is coming and Turmel's medpot at Yahoo groups is something I look foward to reading every day. But remember that 100,000 people were convicted when there were no laws against cannabis as not just the MMAR were unconstitutional, but sections of the CDSA was struck down also. If there were a proper reprinting, cannabis would not show up as a controlled substance. And remember the courts did not go back and clear those convictions off those people's records either. There system is as broken as ours and warped by a plutocracy that need to have illegal marijutana to fortify the police state.
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Comment #2 posted by global_warming on August 29, 2004 at 12:39:39 PT

Divorce
This madness reminds me of a divorce, where every little thing the "other person" does can be interpreted as a problem, for the other person." Flying in the face of linguistic precision, the criminal law has the potential to become a tool of political oppression."It is this same crap that led Jesus to crucifixion, this same fixation on precision and ignoring the outcome, that "we the people" are witness in our times.We may never be able to "love our brother or neighbor" but can we strive for tolerance, perhaps a broader understanding of our world and our place in this magnificent and mysterious universe.Given the finite resources this planet can offer, should we learn to share or device more corrupted ways to deny each other the blessings this world has to give.Fear of death and suffering is part of life, as comfort and pleasure is also, in sharing, we acknowledge that each of us have the potential to contribute to better understanding our world and to be better able to find the solutions that will redeem and reveal our futures.

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Comment #1 posted by FoM on August 29, 2004 at 11:00:42 PT

Thank You Alan Young
It's time to end this madness!
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