cannabisnews.com: Bush Administration Hails Failure of Initiatives Bush Administration Hails Failure of Initiatives Posted by CN Staff on November 07, 2002 at 17:01:26 PT By Charlene Porter, Washington File Staff Writer Source: U.S. Department of State Washington – Director of the Office of National Drug Control Policy (ONDCP) John Walters says that the voters' rejection of ballot measures to relax drug laws in three U.S. states November 5 was "a stunning victory of common sense over pro-drug propaganda."In Arizona, voters turned down an initiative to allow medicinal use of marijuana. Ohio voters said "no" to a proposal to mandate treatment instead of jail time for some drug offenders. The people of Nevada defeated a referendum question that would have allowed possession of small amounts of marijuana for recreational use. The results "affirm what most Americans already know: that no family, no community, no state is better off with more drug use," Walters said in a statement issued November 6.He also criticized the various groups responsible for waging the well-funded lobbying campaigns to put the measures before voters. "Despite being outspent by as much as 25 to 1, voters refused to have their voices drowned out by those who are indifferent to the harms that drug use brings."Walters played an active role in the defeat of the measures. He visited all three states in the months before the election meeting with state and local officials, treatment providers, law enforcement and youth groups to drive home the message about the dangers of drug abuse and its social consequences.The possibility that U.S. voters might also be influenced by actions that other nations have taken to liberalize drug laws was another factor Walters took issue with in his campaign to work against the ballot measures, according to an ONDCP spokesperson.Walters expressed his concerns about the legalization movement in a July editorial published in the nationally distributed Wall Street Journal shortly after Britain acted to downgrade the possession of cannabis to the status of a non-arrestable offense."Legalization, by removing penalties and reducing price would increase drug demand," Walters wrote. "Make something easier and cheaper to obtain, and you increase the number of people who will try it."While legalization advocates suggest that the Dutch action to decriminalize marijuana in 1976 has had a benign effect, Walters said that's not true. "As drugs gained social acceptance, use increased consistently and sharply, with a 300 percent rise in use by 1996 among 18-20-year-olds."Walters derided another pro-legalization argument – that recreational drug use is a victimless crime. "Studies indicate that up to 80 percent of our child welfare caseload involves caregivers who abuse substances," Walters wrote. "Drug users do not harm only themselves."The November 6 ONDCP statement declares that the defeated state ballot measures "represent the high-watermark of the drug legalization movement" in the United States, but the Bush administration still casts a wary eye toward proposals under consideration in Canada to liberalize drug laws. Pointing to the nation's northern neighbor as the source of the most potent form of marijuana now coming into the United States, ONDCP spokesperson Jennifer de Vallance said in a telephone interview that any action to relax drug laws in Canada would have a "clear and profound impact" on the United States.Note: Three measures defeated in "common sense" vote.Complete Title: Bush Administration Hails Failure of Pro-Drug Ballot Initiatives The Washington File is a product of the Office of International Information Programs, U.S. Department of State. -- http://usinfo.state.gov Newshawk: Nicholas Thimmesch II -- http://www.norml.orgSource: U.S. Department of State Author: Charlene Porter, Washington File Staff WriterPublished: November 7, 2002Website: http://usinfo.state.govRelated Articles:South Shore Voters Back Decriminalizing Marijuana http://cannabisnews.com/news/thread14689.shtmlVoters Send Messages on Pot, Finneran & Casinos http://cannabisnews.com/news/thread14686.shtmlSF Votes to Explore City Pot Growing Program http://cannabisnews.com/news/thread14675.shtml Home Comment Email Register Recent Comments Help Comment #70 posted by freedom fighter on November 10, 2002 at 08:28:29 PT Come'on show your true face Just my two cheap cents for this whole election shebang.. It's like being in a dreamland where a creature or a thing just somehow appear in thin wisp of unknown smoke. The creature was never voted by the "people" but by the vermins wearing black robes. So why did the "People" let this happen? What's even worse, I think, that the creature's next "election", the "People" will support this vile creature. Does this year election represent the whole population? I wonder if the population ever felt that a vote even mattered. Let there be no doubt that these initiatives prove one thing. That is that there are group of human beings being persecuted by the "Society" because they choose a substance that others deemed evil. And, sadly, the "People" thought it is the norm. It is normal to bust people's door because you smelt funny! It is normal to send a human being into a cage turning into this ghost. After all, Johnny said that we never ever put anyone in prison for growing a plant or two..It is truly amazing that it is normal to shove radioactive materials up in Mt.Yucca's ass and be able to shove a human being into a hole full of radioactive pills because she/he grew a plant someone did'nt like. ff [ Post Comment ] Comment #69 posted by CongressmanSuet on November 09, 2002 at 17:31:30 PT HerbDoc... Has seen sides of up front sides of this WoSD that many "thinkers" here can only have nightmares about. I have the greatest respect for Steve, and I know there is NOTHING I can say that will make anything better for him and his family, but do try to hang on...its all we got left[from a medical user with a very precarious supply]. Best wishes to you, and dont feel bad, Im starting to believe everyone uses everyone in one way or another to reach thier goals, wether for good or EVIL. [ Post Comment ] Comment #68 posted by freedom fighter on November 09, 2002 at 16:09:10 PT Come'on show your true face Just my two cheap cents for this whole election shebang.. It's like being in a dreamland where a creature or a thing just somehow appear in thin wisp of unknown smoke. The creature was never voted by the "people" but by the vermins wearing black robes. So why did the "People" let this happen? What's even worse, I think, that the creature's next "election", the "People" will support this vile creature. Does this year election represent the whole population? I wonder if the population ever felt that a vote even mattered. Let there be no doubt that these initiatives prove one thing. That is that there are group of human beings being persecuted by the "Society" because they choose a substance that others deemed evil. And, sadly, the "People" thought it is the norm. It is normal to bust people's door because you smelt funny! It is normal to send a human being into a cage turning into this ghost. After all, Johnny said that we never ever put anyone in prison for growing a plant or two..It is truly amazing that it is normal to shove radioactive materials up in Mt.Yucca's ass and be able to shove a human being into a hole full of radioactive pills because she/he grew a plant someone did'nt like. ff [ Post Comment ] Comment #67 posted by DdC on November 09, 2002 at 14:16:38 PT There are No Nice Fascist Looking Out For You! Bill Would Outlaw Internet Drug Information http://pub3.ezboard.com/fendingcannabisprohibitionwhyitstimetolegalize.showMessage?topicID=28.topicWASHINGTON (APBnews.com) -- The days of ordering bongs and pipes and other drug paraphernalia online, getting information on the medical uses of marijuana or instructions on growing hemp may go up in smoke if lawmakers have their way. A bill passed by the Senate in November seeks to make it illegal to provide any information online about marijuana. The measure also would increase penalties for drugs classified as methamphetamines, which go by street names such as "speed," "meth," "crank," "crystal-meth" and "glass." Free-speech advocates say the proposed law banning marijuana information violates the First Amendment.Secret Searches Bill Also provides plenty of stocked shelves. http://pub3.ezboard.com/fendingcannabisprohibitionwhyitstimetolegalize.showMessage?topicID=107.topicMeth Bill/Free Speech by Richard Lake http://pub3.ezboard.com/fendingcannabisprohibitionwhyitstimetolegalize.showMessage?topicID=122.topicMaking War On Free Speech! S. 486/H.R. 2987 Passes http://pub3.ezboard.com/fendingcannabisprohibitionwhyitstimetolegalize.showMessage?topicID=118.topicThe Anti-Meth Bill - Washington Post http://pub3.ezboard.com/fendingcannabisprohibitionwhyitstimetolegalize.showMessage?topicID=113.topicClosing Ranks on MAPA/Secret Searches Bill Passes http://pub3.ezboard.com/fendingcannabisprohibitionwhyitstimetolegalize.showMessage?topicID=107.topicHATCH BILL THAT STIFFENS DRUG PENALTIES IS OK'D http://pub3.ezboard.com/fendingcannabisprohibitionwhyitstimetolegalize.showMessage?topicID=88.topicLegislation Introduced to Overturn DC Initiative http://pub3.ezboard.com/fendingcannabisprohibitionwhyitstimetolegalize.showMessage?topicID=112.topicUrgent Warning about Industrial Hemp... http://pub3.ezboard.com/fendingcannabisprohibitionwhyitstimetolegalize.showMessage?topicID=135.topicStop feeding Red Herrings! http://boards.marihemp.com/boards/politics/media/38/38846.gif The Shadow of the Swastika...Elkhorn Manefesto...Get Real...Wake Up!!! [ Post Comment ] Comment #66 posted by FoM on November 09, 2002 at 12:05:32 PT BGreen this was in the article It doesn't just say just what you mentioned but cocaine, marijuana and heroin.``I'm telling you this because you can get in trouble on the back streets of Dorchester, but you can also get in trouble on the back streets of the Internet. And the police are working both streets now.''The former three-term Arkansas congressman, appointed to run America's drug-fighting agency in August 2001, said there is no one drug dominating teen culture. Cocaine, marijuana and heroin remain pillars of the drug plague. [ Post Comment ] Comment #65 posted by FoM on November 09, 2002 at 12:01:44 PT BGreen I don't have control over computer things like what you mentioned but I know this site doesn't have cookies. I mind having to accept cookies and avoid it as much as possible. Advertizers can get info and spam you that way I think. I'm not sure though. I'm not smart about a lot on the Internet. I just like to do news and make web pages when I have time. [ Post Comment ] Comment #64 posted by BGreen on November 09, 2002 at 11:50:42 PT There are people dumb enough to advertise and sell illegal substances over the internet. These people are being pursued by the feds and arrested.They aren't busting people like us for just talking.Some people are posting recipes for GHB or meth and claiming first amendment protection. Those are the people Asa is talking about, even if he's not capable of clearly expressing his thoughts through words.We're not the people they're actively going after, but we have to make sure they don't "stumble" upon us, and the owners of this website should purge their logs often, not collect personal data, and diligently keep personal information from getting into the wrong hands. There's NO reason to collect personal information on a website where so many people put their freedom on the line, and search warrants are meaningless if the information is never collected in the first place. [ Post Comment ] Comment #63 posted by FoM on November 09, 2002 at 11:17:11 PT BGreen I found this article and posted it after I mentioned what Asa said on the news the other night. This is why we need to be cautious.http://www.cannabisnews.com/news/thread14704.shtml [ Post Comment ] Comment #62 posted by FoM on November 09, 2002 at 11:03:06 PT BGreen & lookinside You very well might be protected but others might not be so we should remember we can bring hurt to those who don't know how to secure themselves properly. Thanks lookinside, I will email Jean later one today and thank you. It's been one of those days. The life alert went off for the third time in not many hours. This is the worst day ever for him needing help. That's ok but it is making it harder to figure out what to do. [ Post Comment ] Comment #61 posted by lookinside on November 09, 2002 at 10:47:55 PT email FoM:Went to get a haircut.Yes, you can email me and I'll forward it to her. Very happy to do so. Her email hasn't changed, so it might be available in one of her posts, too. Either way, feel free to email. [ Post Comment ] Comment #60 posted by BGreen on November 09, 2002 at 10:46:16 PT There are ways of anonymizing ourselves A proxy that doesn't send your ISP number in the "forwarded for" column is a great start. Many proxies will mask your ISP number, but reveal it under the heading HTTP_X_FORWARDED_FOR=I know a way to check this, and in that case it is a heck of a lot harder to trace me here than by email.To all of the "anti's" reading this, remember that God is truth, God created cannabis, and "vengeance is mine, sayeth the Lord." [ Post Comment ] Comment #59 posted by FoM on November 09, 2002 at 10:28:15 PT BGreen Remember the antis read this site and we can be traced here very easily so we need to be careful what we say here too. [ Post Comment ] Comment #58 posted by BGreen on November 09, 2002 at 10:25:25 PT I understand your conflict, FoM but since we've been relegated to using email or chat for personal correspondence, it kind of puts a kink in the chain when we either risk our safety or just don't interact with each other.Brief personal interactions on this site are the safest way for us to proceed, but the people who've bitched and split have left us without too many options.I think the restrictions on personal comments should be relaxed, FoM, and every time you "remind" us to contact people by email after we post something personal at cannabisnews.com, remember that you may be handing us a "go directly to jail" card along with your advice.Bud GreenBTW, Outlook and Outlook Express are the WORST email programs you can use. They're hacked on almost a daily basis. [ Post Comment ] Comment #57 posted by FoM on November 09, 2002 at 10:17:30 PT BGreen I think you're right. The Gay community is the one that has seen death over and over again. They know Cannabis helps a patient keep their medicine down and gives them a better quality of life. Watching friends and loved ones die trips a trigger in folks and they then become activists. [ Post Comment ] Comment #56 posted by BGreen on November 09, 2002 at 10:07:10 PT The only thing that "did us in" in Nevada were the lies of the prohibitionists. The gay marriage thing is a non-issue. In fact, you could look at the supporters of gay rights as being on our side because it appears most of them also voted in support of question 9. [ Post Comment ] Comment #55 posted by FoM on November 09, 2002 at 10:03:59 PT BGreen Thanks. I have Outlook Express but only a few family and friends have that one and since I have a new email with the satellite it is fine. It was yahoo and Matt also had a heavy filter on CNews but they got thru. All I know is that when I am getting lots of email my computer gets to acting crazy. I'm happy not receiving email for CNews because I don't like being a complaint department and some of the questions people asked me I wouldn't consider answering because I value my freedom. I watched Tech TV and they said remember that email is only as private as a mailed post card. They said it doesn't matter what you do to protect your privacy it still isn't safe. I watched the Columbus channel the other night and Asa was on and said they are working on busting people on line that are talking or promoting illegal drugs in anyway. He said freedom of speech must be respected but if that line is crossed they'll get you. [ Post Comment ] Comment #54 posted by BGreen on November 09, 2002 at 09:53:55 PT FoM, what program were you using for email? Anything from Microsoft is not recommended.There are people who can help you, including myself, but I would need more information.The only way you can get a virus is to execute (run) it, so you HAVE to turn off the option to automatically launch attachments.If the problem is with a web-based email service like Yahoo, you need to contact them about your problem, and let them guide you through some security procedures.Please let me know how I can help you. I've gone 8 years online without picking up a virus.Bud Green [ Post Comment ] Comment #53 posted by FoM on November 09, 2002 at 08:09:34 PT lookinside Can I reach Jean at your email address? If so I'll email her later on today or this evening. [ Post Comment ] Comment #52 posted by lookinside on November 09, 2002 at 08:07:02 PT FoM Jean may have some info on costs.Please email her. [ Post Comment ] Comment #51 posted by FoM on November 09, 2002 at 08:05:47 PT Dana Please don't worry about it. It's ok. I know everyone gets wound up tight. I know I am. Life gets complicated and people react differently. I said in another post I am good at turning off reading comments that upset me and no one can email to complain anymore so I'll just turn it off in my mind and not pay attention. [ Post Comment ] Comment #50 posted by DANA on November 09, 2002 at 07:56:14 PT I'm sorry FoM.. please ignore all my crap....I hope things get better....LoL...d [ Post Comment ] Comment #49 posted by FoM on November 09, 2002 at 07:49:19 PT lookinside, Dana and everyone Thank you. There isn't any news today that I have found so I'm going to try to rest. I'll still look for news but I think this is a normal coming down after elections. I'm surprised I haven't found any articles on the conference. I hope we get a few articles at least. I'll have to email Jean with my new address. I can't even post it or it could get buggy too. My only problem is I can't go back into my old email for CNews where I have the addresses because of all the viruses. I wish that there was a way to stop angry people from sending viruses but shutting down the email was my only way to keep my computer from getting infected. We had a rough night. My husband wil try sleeping at his Dad's house instead of here at home. If that is too much for him to handle we are talking about alternatives. We spent the early morning talking about a nursing home but can't figure out how we can pay for it. Our friend and family lawyer died last week so we don't have an attorney to talk to about what we can do. I'm worried that this will make my husband's health fail. He hasn't been sick for 5 months and that is the longest he has not been sick since he was diagnosed with HepC. It is very sad that at the end of ones life this has to happen. We'll make it though. We live for the moment and not the future these days. [ Post Comment ] Comment #48 posted by lookinside on November 09, 2002 at 07:10:25 PT: Caregiving... FoM:Jean was caregiver for her mother for years before she passed away in 1990. After that, she has cared for her dad since. He became unable to walk about 5 years ago. Until 16 months ago, she was at his house every day, cooking, cleaning, taking care of all his needs. Finally he became unable to do even the most basic things for himself. At the same time, her health started to deteriorate.She finally, after much agonizing, placed him in a nursing home. She's there nearly every day. The staff there respects her tremendously because of her dedication. She spends time with several other patients, too.My FIL's mind is still fairly sharp, but like yours, his body just doesn't work anymore. If you ever need to talk to someone who has been in the same boat, I hope you will send her an email.On a different note: If your long distance rates don't match thesehttp://www.800cucumber.com/Please consider switching.These folks are a nonprofit charity. Best rates I've found.My biggest long distance bill in the last 6 months was less than $10.(including calls to Canada)I'm not trying to "sell" anything. Just sharing a great deal with my friends. [ Post Comment ] Comment #47 posted by DANA on November 09, 2002 at 05:01:17 PT ...Caregiving.... ...I know a thing or two about it........back in about 1987 or so,,me and my girlfriend were "managers",of this 10 unit slum-ghetto roach infested HUD cheapo row of apartments...I ended up with the gig,because my bosses aunt lived there,and she was absolutely wigged out crazy,,and she was the manager at the time,,so,,me and my friend Shannon moved into #7,,and we became the managers after my bosses aunt went over the edge,and wigged out.....I eventually labelled the place "happy village",because these nutty HUD people were moving in,and there are countless stories I could tell about this place,,,but I will try to stay remotely "on topic"...Anyway,,strange tenants drifted through this place...Crazy HUD people,,and families of Mexicans,who moved in to the one bedroom studio apartments as two people,,and then would have dozens of people living there...I'll never forget the nite when I heard this unearthly sound coming from around back,,and I went to see what was going on,, these Mexican people were slaughtering a GOAT in the yard!..It was some sort of ceremony involving their children,,some kinduv a Mexican bar mitsvah or something...They were very polite,and invited me to partake.,,.,.,..,...ANYWAY.....to go on with my caregiver story,,,This guy named Western Lindsay moved into unit #10....Wes,,was a 350 pound Hawaiin quadrapelegic Veteran....He had made it through the VietNam war as a Navy diver.He was an expert swimmer,and told me many a heavy tale,,anyway,,after he got out of the service,,he was doing construction work,and he had bought a new truck..so...one night on the way home from thje job,,he was too fucked up to drive,so he had his friend drive,and he was laying in the back of the truck,,,they got into a really bad collision,and Wes ended up with a severed spinal cord,a quadrapelegic for LIFE!..As you can well imagine,he was quite a character.When I first met him,he moved into #10...He was like 'The Big Kahuna!"....A bossy,grumpy, yet friendly sonuvabitch.....I could O'D' the RAM on this site if I was to tell the whole story,,so I will reluctantly return to the nitty gritty of my story.......I began to help Wes out..he was a cheap sonuvabitch,and I am ,,by nature,a somewhat foolish helper of those in need,,(no regrets)...but anyway,,through Wes,,I met my friend Gordy....Now Gordy was also a "quad".(quadrapeligic)...Gordy was a 22 year old Marine stationed in Southern California,and he had wiped out on his motorcycle ,,and broke his neck,,severing his spinal cord,,and when I met him,he had been keepin' on keepin' on for the last 25 years!.....Now,,as you can imagine,,these Veteran guys were no "spring chickens",,nope,,in fact they were like some old veteran winter chickens..........So,,to continue...I ended up helping Gordy out,and being his "caregiver"...He had a note from his doctor at the VA,that said Marijuana helped to alleviate Gordys' spasms.I lived with Gordy for over three years,and the effects of Marijuana were confirmed,and made clear!..I cleaned up his excrement,,I emptied his pee bag,,I irragated his cathiter,,I did stuff that is more unbelieveable than what I've already talked about...BUT,,I guess the gist of what I wanna say,,is that I saw ,,with my own eyes,,I saw Gordy benifit from Marijuana...For over three years,,I fed ,clothed,and took care of Gordy!..Gordy was my brother!...He would have these spasms in his legs and arms where he would flop about like a fuckin' rag doll!..A single toke of Marijuana,would instantly stop the spasms!.......but.............. the end of the story aint pretty....Gordys' WIFE got put in jail for drugs,and she was gonna get cut loose one week after I was to leave for Honduras,to build a summer place for a rich guy.....I worked everything out to make sure that Gordy would be cared for in the week that I would be gone,before his wife got out of the can.......A month and a half later,,,I get home from central America,,and it turns out that Gordy is DEAD..One day after I had left,,he crashed and burned on the freeway;....that was fucked,,,so then,I got these nasty little phone messages from his X-wife,,,accusing me of "killing" Gordy because I went away to work....well eventually,,I maintained communication with "T",,(his ex wife.)...She was under some prohbation program were they could drop by anytime and check if she had been bad...She had no friends...I became one of the only people she knew,or could talk to...I went to Seattle for Christmas that year,,and when I got back,I tried to call her,,,but she was DEAD!...she had OD'd or something....you know how I hate to get off topic,,,so I will go back on,,and tell that Gordy had a MMJ scrip from the doctors at the VA,,and he always tried to tell me not to worry about getting busted..after all,,,I was a "caregiver",and under California law,I was safe from getting fucked.....Now Gordy's dead,and so is T. his wife.....Wes,,that ol' Hawaiin guy died too,,,so now,I am caregiver for myself,,and my dog...BUT,,I will still be open to giving care to anyone who might need it,,or even want it...JAH is no Secret! [ Post Comment ] Comment #46 posted by DANA on November 09, 2002 at 02:48:49 PT ...Herbdoc215.. ...,I'm not sure who bumped their head,,,and I dont like to take sides especially in matters that I dont fully comprehend,,but I gotta say that I admire,and appreciate your contributions to this place....As far as I'm concerned,your somewhat outspoken style is invigorating,and a valuable addition to what is going on here!.....dont stop!Keep on keepin' on.......Sincerely....................d [ Post Comment ] Comment #45 posted by herbdoc215 on November 09, 2002 at 01:52:10 PT: Knox, Did you bump your head? That had to have been one of the most red-neck things I have ever read, man you sure you smoke pot? Gay people don't get their doors kicked in because they stink, they don't get pulled over by cops with 'hippydar', the cops even have these pieces of paper called warrents when they come to their house. I am sure they are saying same thing about us "damn dopers". While I am not gay, I have been saved from some horrible shit by two different people whom I bet my last dollar had a shit-pot more class than to call you a "dope smoking, kid drugging scum" because we cost them a chance to really be equal to all of us with all the meanings that come with that word (guess being in Canada somebody needs to remind US of all the bs it's supposed to be...) If you believe that ANYBODY in America has less rights than we do you have been using too much of your own product, that also goes for more hated! What about Az., did it ooze down on them in AZ or could it just be that folks are not as stupid as these boys think? Does dollar bills cut off oxygen to your brain? I ain't going to shut up so somebody might as well address this from the "mile high club, plus camp followers" as I ain't Walters and I AM GOING TO GET SOME ANSWERS! We can do this the easy way or we can do this my way, the fun way? I really don't care as I have lost everything, Don Quixote thats me. You are good at hiding behind us, come to me face and tell me why I have over a dozen GOOD folks who are now patients in jail? Know how much these hero's have done to help them, piss on me as this isn't about me: ZERO! Red-neck's! Peace, Steven Tuck FoM, (sheepishly...) I am sorry for any and all grief I have ever caused you, please just look over my tirades as you are LAST person any have ever been aimed at or place I would choose to air such laundry BUT as somebody who has paid mt dues, in full, I fell divested in this 'movement' and bit my toungue for 4 year before I got so fed up I don't care anymore as not one of them as ever lifted one finger to help anyone I know EXCEPT NORML who does more with less money then anyone I have ever seen. These people are the heart and soul of this whole shebang and to watch them be neglected by these bigshots (or worse get gamed) in favor of narcs is more than I can stand for one! Lead, Follow, or get the *&^k out of the way! When we as a movement send great men like Keith and Allen of NORML begging with hat in hand to punks like Kampia, we tell them they don't matter, that more years of service than most of us have been alive doesn't matter. We better take a long look and see how much farther we really want to let others dictate our actions because they have a few pieces of silver. I just call-em like I see them... [ Post Comment ] Comment #44 posted by FoM on November 08, 2002 at 22:31:28 PT DdC Thank you. That's good advice. We're doing the very best we can. Stick cares for his Dad and I care for Stick. I feel the caregiver gets neglected all too often so when Stick is here I try to make it a good relaxing experience. I try to make it that he can just take it easy and know that he has a sanctuary in our home. I hope that makes sense. Thanks again. [ Post Comment ] Comment #43 posted by DdC on November 08, 2002 at 22:24:59 PT Hey FoM btw... I don't know if you require one.But I found baby monitors can allow the caregiver to have time away from the bedside and still hear the patient. Also I found I could fabricate an alarm system from Radio Shack for about $200. A sensor under a mat or infra red lights that remotely sound an alarm if pressure is applied or if the beam is broken by a wondering patient. Sometimes the meds can cause a patient to try going over the bed or getting out when they can't walk. Adding the word "medical" automatically causes the price to skyrocket 3 or 4 times. Washable chux padding is cheaper than disposibles in the long run too. Wave type air mattresses with an air pump can help a lot in preventing bed sores and from moving the patient every two hours or so. And they sell a plate gaurd that half surrounds a plate so the patient can eat without a big mess or losing food over the edge. And then there's always the Grateful Dead and ganja dance excersizing. ¶8) Hope all remains peaceful for him, I know you and Stick are doing a fine job of caring for dad. You do so well caring for us here...Be well...DdC [ Post Comment ] Comment #42 posted by DdC on November 08, 2002 at 22:11:40 PT Thanks CongressmanSuet I mean it for the discovery of truth, not personal gain or to be "right". I just have always had a hard time accepting "because I said so" as an answer.¶8)To all, no offense intended. Just ranting... [ Post Comment ] Comment #41 posted by DdC on November 08, 2002 at 22:06:16 PT GCW, thanks but I believe... many are trying to serve two masters. Many worship the Church Job or government instead of their God. Be true to thy known self. Christ, not Jesus, is the figurehead of Christianity. Jesus never wore the crown of Christiandom. The historical Jesus philosophy is basically what all spiritual beliefs states. Common sense. One accessable to all... spirit energy, one race of people. The physical entity known as God is a power or energy the same as electricity or gravity. Not a glowing George Burns. Of a force in Nature, or rather throughout the Universe. As of yet undiscovered by Science. Not the politics and profit of religion. Maybe made from photon particles. We still don't know what the space is inbetween the planets or between the nucleous and electrons of an atom. And with science owned by Corporations dictating what to discover or government, who knows? Maybe ganja will give us immortality and why it must be hidden from the masses until the time is right. It makes more sense than Congress banning it. Egypt toked hash and built pyramids. I believe the apes ate enthneogenic plants and physically enlarged the surface area of memory, like corrigated cardboard. More memory to create a bigger picture than their parents. Through the ages expanding the mind till we sit here writing hypothesis about it. ¶8)Prayer can work if something is needed, but not if it's just wanted. But to try and incorporate it into a business, with employees is only to opiate the masses into servitude to profit. Not internal serving, external or man made.God creates, man kills it and adulterates and tries manipulating it into a replica of what was natural. Food, fuel, fiber or medicine. The same as when the Catholic Church banned the spherical earth theory, so must we abandon the notion of a male God. Another opiate of the masses to assist in domination. Along with segregation of books and stations in life. Permitting only males to study or enter Universities. Maintaining Dysfunction. I wouldn't be a bit surpirsed if ganja created the incentive to read books and rebel, regardless of gender or race.True Science rules. Science discovered the hashish incense that says Moses and Jesus inhaled like everyone else in the neighborhood. It also discovered the fetus is ungendered till the 18th day. If man is created in God's image then God can have no gender. More abortions from pesticides than clinics. More Evangelical Christian kids afraid to confront their parents while pregnant having abortions than liberals. Realism is what the forefathers based this country on. Not Christian doctrine and fear. True God is good, but good is a word of man. No one is born evil, we learn as we go. We remain on a sliding scale changing every hour. Trying to remain calm with the knowledge of peace but not always. When your job is creating war or pollution is the result of your profits, how can they find peace? So it spreads. FoM, I believe the nonpsychoactive tall closely planted helpful hemp (cannabis sativa L) and ganja that is separated by distance to isolate the female plant from propagating or converting the thc into seed. Males are ripped up wher'as hemp it doesn't matter except to isolate a certain strain of seed. Hemp will ruin a good ganja crop the same as male ganja plants. Then the kicker is when the female changes to a male/female or hormorphidite that reduces the thc and buds to schwag. So remember to thank your local ganja grower for all the pitfalls of prohibited cultivation they must go through. Beside D.E.A.th. But it all started with cannabis sativa. The sativa from India and China manipulated for centuries got more potent and was called Indica as I understand it. Then the various strains from different geography and the length of times breeding the female flowertops, produced different kynds. The leaves are not for toking, only external polstices for arthritis and sore muscles. The female flowertop/bud is the internal tokable medicine. Leaves can be eaten without problem. Druggies extracted the thc into fat, oil or alcohol or I guess I'veread ether is used also, and produced the medicines in a bottle called American cannabis. But I believe its all has its roots in Afghanitan, the supposed starting point of discovery. I have been told most of Europe had schwag so they would remove the crystals from the buds with leather coats. As it clung to the leather they would scrape it off as one scrapes or peals their hands making homemade hash. Then taking the scrapings or mix and pressing it into balls called temple balls to smoulder in the incense censors. The Sythians threw the buds onto hot rocks inside of a cauldron and placed it inside a domed tent and sat among the smoke and howled with laughter.When the Roman emperor Constantine took the Jewish Roman convert Pauls writings and edited out St Thomas and most of the deciples along with kaneh bosm the same as the D.E.A.th manipulating science to create the modern day reefer madness theories. That was the formulation and the start of todays fascism. Again in the 30's cannabis hemp was too versatile to get Hitlers IGFarben/Dupont polyfiber started. Also shelving Fords biomass/biofiber car to promote plastic and crude oil petroleum. Cannabis prohibition supplied the war chest of Hitler and these naive twits continue it today. Even the Jews! How ironic is that?Theoriolgy doesn't cut the mustard. So if thats what you meant I agree. But I will not serve any mamon. Not Preist or Rabi or Pope or Fascist. Well its time to shower in ganja smoke and howl with laughter...Peace, Love and Liberty or D.E.A.thDdCThe day will come when the mystical generation of Jesus by the Supreme Being as his father, in the womb of a virgin, will be classed with the fable of the generation of Minerva in the brain of Jupiter. Thomas Jefferson, 1823 I love to listen to Dylan and apreciate his influence, but...Where is Cannabis in Rock and Roll! http://pub3.ezboard.com/fendingcannabisprohibitionstuff.showMessage?topicID=49.topicScythians http://www.cannabisculture.com/backissues/jul95/scythians.htmlKaneh Bosm http://www.cannabisculture.com/backissues/mayjune96/kanehbosm.html Visions of a Sacred Tree http://www.cannabisculture.com/backissues/fall95/split.html When Smoke Gets in My Eye http://www.cannabisculture.com/backissues/apr95/smoke_in_my_i.html Christ and Cannabis, Jesus Used Marijuana http://www.cannabisculture.com/magazine/cc11/christ.html [ Post Comment ] Comment #40 posted by CongressmanSuet on November 08, 2002 at 21:52:06 PT: Ddc.... While many will disagree, I personally believe your piece to be one of the most thought provoking posts ever written here. Thank You. [ Post Comment ] Comment #39 posted by FoM on November 08, 2002 at 19:48:09 PT John Tyler You're right it isn't over. I keep looking for an article about the MPP - SSDP Conference but haven't found one so far. Dr. Russo was scheduled to speak this afternoon. Maybe later on an article will show up. I think Dana is at the conference too. I hope he made it. [ Post Comment ] Comment #38 posted by John Tyler on November 08, 2002 at 19:40:35 PT Thoughts The Bush crowd is crowing now, and the movement might go off of their radar screen, and that may be good, but it isn't over. We can't forget the "good guys" won in S.F., D.C. and Mass. [ Post Comment ] Comment #37 posted by The GCW on November 08, 2002 at 15:44:44 PT DdC= Its simply business. That is not opinion. Wasn't the catholic church the largest business in America, just a few years ago with the Morman Church of Lat... like the 3rd largest?And DdC = You can't serve two masters. Right, and Christ and the church, today, are 2 different masters.Again, Dylan, = Gotta Serve Somebody.Serve Our Father who gave Us cannabis.If We like cannabis, think how much more We should like He who gave cannabis to Us.Wow [ Post Comment ] Comment #36 posted by FoM on November 08, 2002 at 15:31:14 PT Thanks DdC We are busy today doing a lot of changing things. I'm glad the news is slow. My father in law can't walk anymore. He can a few steps but that's all. We are changing everything around so it will be easier for him. His TV quit the other day so we went and bought him a new one and subscribed to more channels on Direct TV to try to make it better for him. The hospice nurse is happy with how hard we are trying to keep him from going to a nursing home. I don't want that for him. He still has a fairly good mind but his body is very old and tired. If I ever don't show up to do CNews that would be why and I would let you all know as soon as I could. That might happen and very soon. His legs are swollen all the way up and the lasix isn't working anymore. It's sad but it's not going to be much longer. We aren't letting him take those pills though. He gets really confused when he takes them. Keeping him comfortable is what is important and we are doing our best. [ Post Comment ] Comment #35 posted by DdC on November 08, 2002 at 14:53:59 PT I agree FoM...Keep the Faith! In creations of God (Ganja/Jesus) or in creations of man.(Christianity, Christ and Prohibition) Free Will Rules!Are you the King of the Jews ask Herod?Those are your words, not mine says Jesus....Jesus never claimed to be a Christ. A one upmanship buzz word making him supposidly greater than any Emperor or King. Those were bestowed on him long after the Crucifiction...Reality over rules Fiction. Common sense and fact over rule mans indoctrination to enslave the masses. Cannabis teaches us to be individuals with our own thoughts. A definate hazard to the Church. You can't serve two masters. Never. Regardless of hurting feelings with truth. The debate falls apart the same as ganja. Its physics, not blind believing. When the Church stops profiting on ganja users. Stops persecuting and neglecting the sick ganja users and stops killing those thinking for themselves. I'll convert. Jesus is just alright with me. Christianity isn't. It isn't American or of Jesus. Its simply business. That is not opinion. That is evidenced by their actions. Especially prohibition.I Love you for your actions and individuality FoM. Those are diametrically opposed to the Church. You practice what you preach which is not what the Church of Christians do. Hypocrisy will be their downfall. Why jump off the cliff with them when you know whats right and wrong or you wouldn't be here in the first place. Neither would I.Peace, Love and Liberty or D.E.A.thDdCAmerica was not founded on Christianity... DEISM - AMERICA'S FORGOTTEN RELIGION! http://pub3.ezboard.com/fendingcannabisprohibitionstuff.showMessage?topicID=150.topicMaintaining Dysfunction http://pub3.ezboard.com/fendingcannabisprohibitionstuff.showMessage?topicID=142.topicNo DEAth Worshiping http://boards.marihemp.com/boards/politics/media/38/38847.gifDon't Feed Red Herrings http://boards.marihemp.com/boards/politics/media/38/38846.gif [ Post Comment ] Comment #34 posted by CorvallisEric on November 08, 2002 at 12:46:18 PT More from comment 30 about gay politics & Vermont The following is from memory and may not be totally accurate.Vermont Gov. Howard Dean, M.D. signed an equal-benefits law for gay couples - almost cost him re-election. His Republican opponent was a political unknown whose only issue was this. Several legislators lost re-election because of their vote on this. Real guts all around.Vermont Gov. Howard Dean, M.D. (that's right, same man, maybe same year 2000 or 2001) didn't have the balls to do or say anything useful about medical marijuana. Eventually signed a compromise (between House and Senate) bill to "study" the issue further, so maybe he can escape the "blame" if they come up with something reasonable.I think there's a lot that can be learned here. [ Post Comment ] Comment #33 posted by FoM on November 08, 2002 at 12:33:09 PT I'll Only Say This I know many people dislike even the name Christians but all that means is that they are the followers of Christ. Christians have done a lot of harm to who they say they follow. If you understand that sin is sin that there is no sin that is worse then another. If that's true then we all sin. So we here on earth try to make some sins worse then others and that is wrong. We are in this together and grace is what will sustain us but playing God only hurts. Who are we to judge one another? Really? No more Christian stuff from me. I respect all people. Even though I have a very strong faith I respect those who don't. [ Post Comment ] Comment #32 posted by DdC on November 08, 2002 at 12:29:15 PT KKK for Civil Rights!!! Blacks for Slavery! You can not rationally be a Nazi for Jews, a D.E.A.th Merchant for re-Legalization, a re-Legalizer for pot prison or a "Christian" against the drug war. The church stands. Your a member or not. You can't score a touchdown in the 7th inning even if its your ball. You can make the non-sports knowledged believe its possible.Christians forcing the sick to buy ganja on the streets as lambs among the wolves. They're fault for sinning? Most Christians are good hard working serving each other and having compassion for each other and doing what is expected of them. Fight drugs. No matter how, rid the heathens and savages. Smallpoxed blankets. Columbus decapitations as deterrents to extract gold. Wally deterrents of extracting piss. Filling cages with minority slave labor. Just like the sons of his boss 41.The individual person can follow the philosophy of anyone they damn well please, as a church of one. But to sign your name and oath of allegiance means you follow the doctrine established. The Christian church stands with the Fascist profiting on the war on cannabis. You can try and change the stand by organizing for common sense as an individual or group of individuals following Jesus, but not as a Christian.The only spokes persons for the Christians have been P&J Enterprises. Including obtaining Political seats. Media outlets and the "Christian" Corporation funds. 200 sects all obedient to a manufactured (man made) curriculum. Gathering on a weekly scheduled day of worship, perpetuating the suffering. For the first time we can have history back up outlandish statements as I'm making. In sight, in mind. The great corss referencer, the internet.The D.E.A.th can only depend on deception and immoral self righteousness, by Military force. Geeeeeezus the diciple of Baal the "Money God". 2000 years ago the Sanhendren, Philistines and Essene Jews were as separate as the wealthy, working yuppies and nomadic spiritualist and alternativist searching truth today. I remember Jesus not having a church, free love not free sex sold with every Ford, raise the poor above handouts growing hemp fuel fiber and housing. To fill the needs of the people. To be a part of a bigger brighter and less stressed world. Hypocrites are not of Jesus, Jesus was not a Christian. Get Over It. It's a business. Shunning and censored from ganja education, shamming into obedience. Suffering for sins? Jail for healing? Who in their right minds would think any one of us would be here to hurt kids or anyone. Such a degrading insult to even allow pigs so foul to have print or airtime let alone 100's of Publishing and Broadcasting Networks to preach the Brand New Testament. "If ya got it, flaunt it" as Agent Pat 700 said. Partner Jer gets the air time on the faux tube that sucks brain cells faster than any pure liquid. Only its addictive. What 30 odd years of the technological wonder age brought us, pharmaceutical, laboratory equipment and ingredients making crack and crank and pcp substitute for ganja? Thalidomide instead of ganja to stimulate appetites. 90 year sentences in oil producing states knowing if the secret of hemp biomass hit, regardless the thousand fold increase in miscarried abortions. Do it for the Gipper. In the name of Geeeeeezus.Of all I ever learned about Jesus he would be for healing. For advocating to heal. Against huge profits for healing. Totally against caging and herding literally millions of brothers and sisters because they heal without permission. Now would sodomy be a suitable deterrent as it is for Christians? Would perpetuating white powder addiction as snitches against families? Leaving people in the street? Soup lines 2000, arresting Food not Bombs spending Billions on Bombs Not Food. In the name of our lard pass the ammunition. Its easy to escape reality with fairytales. The lighted box in the corner lies. It relieves boredom while not having time to vote. You can not in good conscience follow Jesus and be a Christian. Until the house is clean. Billy wasn't with Martin or against Nam promoted by Bush*Pat&Jer Inc. The true countryfide Evangelical Pentacostal Christians are not represented by this Fortune 700 Club propaganda. Pouring their social security checks into telethons or PTL amusement parks won't serve the poor.This country was not founded on Christ or Christians, it was founded on Reason. It was funded by the same ruthless cutthroats as today who skim off the top, no matter. There was always avenues to let it be. Plugging holes that used to trickle down. Suffering is now a visual aid into the future of any outspoken worker. Homeless deterrents to deter raising the wages. The unbalanced war on cannabis, pops up as a front burner item once in a while. In the continuing battle to make it extinct.Sanctioned by pompous TV rent a preachers saving the sinners from their ways of healing, forgetting or not knowing about how this Church sanctioned Peter McWilliams to die in his own vomit. Tom to get 8 god damn bullets in the head for not forfeiting his land and Rollie for being their as a witness. Who's investigating the investigators? They conveniently forget the baby that was shot when Dyncorps got trigger happy. A Missionary family working to spread the word. Where was the church? As the Pope grows hemp, American farmers go bankrupt while BushCheney & Ascroft rape pillage and plunder. Blame it on drugs and the peasants that grow it. Since long before Jesus and Coca Cola. They chew the coca leaves. Get Pennies while lab flasks and pipettes and burners and fillers and binders are hard to find growing. Some Judao/Christian Atheist ganjawar profiting religionist selling it. Perpetuating the Illegal Trade in the same boat as those making fortunes on it. The Indians raided for blankets they were growing, to get off welfare or the casino's. Killing bird habitat, busting seeds to eat and stealing ganjameds from dying people for Christ sake. Exporting grain feed beef to Japan along with old growth forest. Quicky marts and quicker bucks selling out Time Square to Mitsubishi or another foreign interest. Count the beads till you get dizzy. Solidarity of the factions of ganja must unite. For the benefit of everyones health. The nonpsychoactive hemp is not an enemy of the flowertop people. The tree protectors protesting, tortured and committed while hemp wood and paper gets shunned 30 years. Siding with the Operation Rednecks in the same racist lies from the Nazi propagandist Randy Hearst. Who now charges 35 bucks for tourist to gawk at his possessions bilked from the people during the depression. While stigmatizing ganja in competition with his forest and paper to print the reefer mad weirdness. Scaring the masses like DARE and PDFA. Losing more unborns to lies than those with the confidence to say no in the first place. What wickedness to pray for sickness to worsen someones condition. To gossip behind the backs about how good they are to stop the Beamer and toss a quarter in a hat. To dress up and serve a meal to those with no homes a day or two a year. And the street urchins say thanks and tomorrow dive in dumpsters. Why would a race of people inflict wounds upon themselves so many times I've lost count. Americans have it the best. Yet how many can survive living under a bridge? For a bad pisstest result, regardless of when you toked or if your guilty. Your guilty for a lot of reasons. Depends on whom evaluates the readings. Hops will graft to cannabis. Freaked out minnieczars begging for the National choice of D.E.A.th, Monsanto. To genetically fungi the seed, to terminate competition, end the debate. The hops will perish, Puritanicals will sip their caffeine and laudenum preaching how their good intentions also really profits. Judging in herds of misguided believers. Socially getting together to pass on more poisons by fighting to keep the war on ganja going...forever. To supplement the crude oil fever. Ok what do we do about it. Can one follow Jesus and be a Christian fighting the war on cannabis?Peace, Love and Liberty or D.E.A.th?DdC"The struggle between the two worlds [Fascism and Democracy] can permit no compromises. It's either Us or Them!" Benito Mussolini Address, from Palazzo Venezia balcony October 27, 1930 Religious Groups Support Marijuana Legalization http://www.cannabisnews.com/news/thread14683.shtml [ Post Comment ] Comment #31 posted by The GCW on November 08, 2002 at 12:14:45 PT Morgan, I think I understand YOu clearly. You quoted, "But placing these things on the ballot with an eye towards 'affecting' the vote by drawing a certain type of voter..."Here is something the Bible says that is interesting. 1 Timothy 4Apostasy1 But the Spirit explicitly says that in later times some will fall away from the faith, paying attention to deceitful spirits and doctrines of demons, 2 by means of the hypocrisy of liars seared in their own conscience as with a branding iron, 3 men who forbid marriage and advocate abstaining from foods which God has created to be gratefully shared in by those who believe and know the truth. 4 For everything created by God is good, and nothing is to be rejected if it is received with gratitude; 5 for it is sanctified by means of the word of God and prayer. This is the same scripture that We use to indicate the only Biblical restriction placed on cannabis is that We accept it with thanksgiving.This is the same scripture that indicates who the prohibitionists are, which is to say they are the ones who have fallen away from the faith, as opposed to those who stick with the faith and teachings of Christ...It is subtitled "Apostasy" which is to say it is the future told, or what must happen first...Notice the same word "foods" is used here in this NEW AMERICAN STANDARD BIBLE and "foods" is also used on the very 1st page of the Bible in saying what all the green plants are for... and in the King James where it uses the word meats in 1 Tim 4:1-5 it uses meats on the very 1st page also, to match. All the other versions are like that, in that they use the same word in 1 Tim. 4:1-5 & Gen. on the 1st page.So here it indicates, "...men who forbid marriage"... are also those who have fallen away from the faith...The NASB is written in the same english that Americans use. It is God awesome. http://bible.gospelcom.net/bible?passage=1TIM%2B4&showfn=on&showxref=on&language=english&version=NASB&x=14&y=11http://bible.gospelcom.net/bible?passage=GEN%2B1&showfn=on&showxref=on&language=english&version=NASB&x=15&y=9And the last page where it indicates the Tree of Life's leaves are for the healing of the nations. http://bible.gospelcom.net/bible?passage=REV%2B22&showfn=on&showxref=on&language=english&version=NASB&x=10&y=9 [ Post Comment ] Comment #30 posted by CorvallisEric on November 08, 2002 at 12:03:31 PT The Nevada gay marriage question >>> Shall the Nevada Constitution be amended to provide that: "Only a marriage between a male and female person shall be recognized and given effect in this state?" - - - - Proponents argue that if same gender marriages ever become legal in another state, under the Full Faith and Credit Clause Nevada could be required to recognize such marriages entered into legally in another state. - - - - Opponents argue that a constitutional change is redundant and unnecessary because the definition of marriage as being only between a male and a female is already contained in Nevada Revised Statutes 122.020(1) and federal law. http://sos.state.nv.us/nvelection/2002_bq/bq2.htmThis is the 2nd vote, as required for all constitutional amendments in Nevada. The first vote in 2000 passed by roughly 70%. There never was any proposal for marriage or "civil union" or anything else like it for same-sex couples in Nevada. This whole effort was nothing more than grandstanding by people well characterized by some of you. There was a court decision in Hawaii that may have motivated this. Also, since then, Vermont has enacted an equal-benefits law. [ Post Comment ] Comment #29 posted by Morgan on November 08, 2002 at 10:04:57 PT Homos? "Homos (?) did us in? I hope your toungue is planted firmly in your cheek, knox. I'm going to read it as such.I brought up that aspect of the election with an eye towards 'how your enemy thinks', knowing full well that it could easily be read as a homophobic statement. It wasn't the Gay marraige referendum, or those behind it, that 'did us in'. But placing these things on the ballot with an eye towards 'affecting' the vote by drawing a certain type of voter, is a common tactic of politicians. It's along the same lines as 'gerrymandering' and 'campaign contributions'. All are 'legal', but they sure as hell ain't right.But, homophobia is real, and when looking for answers, reality must be addressed.Just to clear up my perception, I am all for same-sex couples getting legally married and recieving the same legal rights as straight couples...and if I lived in Nevada, I would have voted that way. I know too many gay couples who have been screwed by this 'moral' law to not be personally affected by it. It's just another case of...as we used to say in the Deep South... "keeping the niggers down".And...at the risk of being trashed, I'm going to say that this was once again a case of American Christianity rearing it's ugly head. (Yea, yea, I know it's not 'true' Christianity...but it too is a reality, and must be dealt with if we are to clearly see to move foward.) [ Post Comment ] Comment #28 posted by FoM on November 08, 2002 at 09:51:16 PT herbdoc215 and everyone I'm good at not wanting to know about infighting in organizations. I avoid trying to figure it all out because then I won't look forward but maybe start casting blame. I would burn out emotionally if I did that but I want to say something about NORML. NORML's people have been very kind and respectful to me. I just love Nicholas. We've talked on the phone and he sends me pictures of his adorable baby. I was informed privately the day the baby was born and Nicholas sent me an email with a link and said BGreen and Mayan aren't alone in the way they think about Wellstone. I really value people who care enough to care for us little folks and NORML has been very kind to me. I've never met anyone from the MPP so I can't say anything pro or con about them but I just love NORML folks. [ Post Comment ] Comment #27 posted by FoM on November 08, 2002 at 09:08:35 PT Slang Terms Please if anyone feels that the Gay issue costs us the election please be kind. My son died of AIDS and it hurts me when people are not understanding. I'm sure we have Gay people who post here on Cannabis News so please let's show a little respect. You never know when our words can crush another person without even meaning it. [ Post Comment ] Comment #26 posted by knox42897 on November 08, 2002 at 08:51:28 PT: homo's did us in? I believe the anti-homo marriage law did us in. If you look at the numbers Question 2 passed with 60 something percent, the same F**king people vote no on 9. They really did cost us the election. [ Post Comment ] Comment #25 posted by FoM on November 08, 2002 at 08:20:03 PT Thanks Everyone I'm looking for news but haven't found any to post so far. I like reading the different reasons why you all think it didn't work. I'm not important just a person who cares about reform so I don't think my words are all that important to the overall movement but it was very complicated. I agree that the same sex marriage initiative on the ballot hurt us. I have nothing against gay people but that was a big push with that initiative and it very well was one of the reasons the right wing came out to vote. It's easier to vote against a number of things that you don't agree with then if just Cannabis was on the ballot. I'll think of more to say but I need to look for news but will be back soon. [ Post Comment ] Comment #24 posted by Morgan on November 08, 2002 at 07:52:31 PT Just a passing thought... Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't the Nevada legalization initiative fail because the right-wing christian, homophobic, redneck peckerwood crowd was called out to do God's work by defeating the same-sex marraige initiative, and while they were there in the voting booth, they smited the legalization bill just for good measure? (beau-coup brownie points from Jezus!)I mean, if it was just this cannabis initiative, and voting for a few politicians...would that many dirt-eating half-wits have bothered to vote? I mean, I know some, in fact, I come from a long liniage of white supremist alcoholic trailer-trashites, and let me tell you, we enjoy a good toke just as much as the next guy, and would love to see it legalized...(except it would put cousin Clem out of business...and he'd have to go back to work cleaning the bathrooms at the local Walmart.) But the point is...this initiative alone would probably not have stirred the unwashed masses out of their Lazyboys to go to the polls.Potheads wandering around the streets...eh, we do it all the time. No big deal. But, two guys wandering around in the streets HOLDING HANDS and KISSING!!!... now that's just going to damn far! So...was this planned? Which initiative came first? Who was behind the other? I'm sure it was some well meaning Gay couples who would just like to get the same bennies as straight married couples... but these votes...these elections are planned...some things are let in...some are left out...for a reason...to achieve an end. Is this making any sense?Yea, yea.... I'm thinking conspiracy here. But if you look back at the history of elections in this country...conspiracy is the norm, not the exception. [ Post Comment ] Comment #23 posted by herbdoc215 on November 08, 2002 at 06:53:43 PT They Failed because they tried to Out Lie the Pros How many people here believe we can out lie government and their spin doctors? If we have to use trickery or sick folks as shields then I am not so sure we have taken any lessons from last 15 years. If you want to legalize pot, do it and quit hiding it behind medical marijuana. If one of the three legacy makers there would have just spent .5% of what they have wasted trying to so called "facilitate medical use" in sheparding even one med state inituitive through the implimentation process we could have built upon that instead of always using us medical patients as a legitimizing tool for recreational smokers. The way these groups show no pity or thought for carnage they have left in their wake shocks me to be called one of them; of patients sitting in jail, medical conditions that has taken years to stabilize suddenly turning worse. I'll say it as I care not whats thought, a few ego's have placed thousands of lives in jepordy and have caused as many medical patients to be viewed with derision and suspected of "playing a game to legalize hard drugs for recreational use"...well I for one am playing no game and am indignant that a couple of millionares and their pet NORML reject (Kampia) who narced them out (NORML) for smoking pot in the office in DC could be allowed to play games with my life, THANKS GUYS! I say again, if we cannot police our own movement we are no better than anti's who also believe the ends justify the means. Peace, Steven Tuck [ Post Comment ] Comment #22 posted by The GCW on November 08, 2002 at 05:08:06 PT Don't over look the good things... We have a great amount of momentum. We are doing fine, overall. Let's realize that We must keep on track with much of what We're doing.We will make some key changes, but let's retain all that is helpfull.I am fortunate to be a part of this group of people. I am comfortable here, doing what can be done in the name of Truth.Truth comes 1st.Christ God Our Father is THE TRUTH.Actually it would be ok to cage humans for using the plant cannabis, if that was the message of Christ, but then He would not have been THE CHRIST.Perhaps We should stop listening to the spirit of Herod and listen to the spirit of Truth.Dylan said it: You Gotta Serve Somebody.Get the media and the clergy on Our side with Christ God Our Father. Help them feel the feeling of being overjoyed with being associated with the Truth.Failed clergy and failed media must be enlightened! And they are, but WE must speed it up.I am perhaps on it enough to debate failed clergy and media. The clergy has much to lose if they are exposed to be responsible and they are deeply afraid of that.Perhaps it is time to confront the churches! [ Post Comment ] Comment #21 posted by The GCW on November 08, 2002 at 04:36:21 PT We also lost these because of things We are unresponsible for. I think the Republicans got out to vote more accross the country and that had an effect. It is funny how a theif can rile the evil ones to orgy. There may be more Dems. out voting when it comes time to get rid of the theif. Take time to let Democrats know there are people that are not voting for politicians that support caging humans for using a plant, and make them feel as though they need Us. [ Post Comment ] Comment #20 posted by The GCW on November 08, 2002 at 04:22:55 PT Why it failed and some ideas to help next time. Often things fail for more than one reason. Didn't the NV. #9, ask that the state have something to do with distribution?Didn't Arizona, require the police to confiscate it then distribute it to sick people?Citizens in many cases don't care if I smoke cannabis, but don't want to supply it or have politicians have any hand in it. I don't either. Don't most people know the gov. is screwy and unworthy and untrustworthy, then don't give them any responsibility, except to collect taxes when it is sold in a store. Perhaps the wording of the initiative requires mentioning where it will come from. Maybe wording should be used to allow citizens to grow it, like the tomatoe, potatoe or brew it like beer or wine with some limits.I know I don't want to have to get a prescription for it then have to apply for it, then have to pay $150+ for the privaledge of using it. Our Father said He gave it to Us, and I'm not asking anyone else to use it.Next time, Do not try to force the government to give or supply any thing, to even sick people, even if it is taken from others. Just put on the ballot, to make posession and use of cannabis to no longer include cagings etc.Use the word cage instead of jail. Jail is trivial and distant as a game inconvenience. The closest reality of jail to most people is, caging their cat or dog, and that has an effect on them. It is sad, but isn’t it the truth, prohibitionists types would share more compassion for their dog or cat.Stop using the word marijuana. That may not be logical, right now, but makes sense enough to give it serious thought. Marijuana is akin to nigger.Right now it is not just a war on drugs, in fact it is a war on drugs and a plant. Plant... in that like a tomatoe or potatoe, I want to grow it with out persecution from the government. This may not favor all people but to re-legalize cannabis will have a positive effect on any wor on drugs when the war is only on drugs and will give credibility to any wor on drugs, when people can recite the Truth about cannabis.Enlist the people of other nations, both those that are badly effected by Americas prohibition and those who are getting along fine with less of it.Expose how the discredited have the power to heavy handedly produce lies.As more and more people live with out health insurance, there needs to be access to cannabis for health needs to the poor.Make sure people understand that it also implies ecological issues and interests, farmers will grow it if We can smoke it. And if farmers can grow it, We don't need to cut another tree for paper, there will be more research to use it for fuel, fiber, building products etc. Using and growing cannabis will help clean the air, reduce acid rain, and help clean the water, all for stopping the policy of caging humans for using it.Use the Biblical aspects of the issue. It will force pro's to take a step back and evaluate what is the Truth. Refer to "failed clergy", for what they are.Make the connection to peacefulness, showing the same people are interested in peace and not killing and is right with Christ.Find ways to more and more expose how badly the Gov. is not telling the truth. Make people associate cannabis prohibition as a monster for all civizization that effects even Our unborn grandchildren. Make pro's feel responsible for this mess!Expose Re-legalizing cannabis as the litmus test for knowing who is rational and who is irrational.Separate cannabis from "DRUG", even though many feel like cannabis is a drug, in order to re-legalize it, there is a distinct difference between the conotation of drug and medicine. Drug can be projected in the light of biased negative. Medicine can not.When people accept cannabis, it brings them closer to Truth and when people get closer to Truth, they get closer to Christ God Our Father, and that brings people closer to THE PROMISED ADDITIONAL HELPER, THE NEW TEACHER, THE HOLY SPIRIT OF TRUTH.Don't studies show a majority of people have an interest in God? Then show that only the devil would cage a human for using a plant.Force the pro's to realize -they're admitting, a desire to cage humans for using a plant? Try to get them to say that in order for them to hear themselves saying it.Who wants to hear themselves say, "I want to cage humans for using a plant"?I suspect most people don't know the true implications. [ Post Comment ] Comment #19 posted by CongressmanSuet on November 07, 2002 at 23:58:31 PT: Fom, call it a night... BUT, I have one thing to say about the initiatives. They were worded wrongly, and its one thing to make Cannabis a non-punishable offense, most would agree, but when you put in stuff like "The gov. will be required to distribute to sick people" you ruin all chances. Alaska is a perfect example, with its "restitution" scheme for all those convicted for Cannabis offenses. Stop shooting for the moon guys, you just might make progress.... [ Post Comment ] Comment #18 posted by Reverend Nick on November 07, 2002 at 23:43:38 PT: Nevada-Style Push in Hawaii Rumour has it that we may launch a Nevada - Style assault in Hawaii in two years. I'm hearing the Drug Policy Forum of Hawaii is holding a meeting on November 11th. We'd like to see the state medical marijuana laws better "defined" and more hip to how much well-grown weed a sick person needs. I'm looking at the MJ Party format to recruit local Libertarians to run under the MJ banner. Anybody have any experience with the MJ Party we can use? We'll need help. Tell me you are with us, can give us contacts and support, and send me an e-mail (nickveltre yahoo.com) so I can start the list of folks we can look to for logistics and word-spreading. The Good Reverend Roger Christie of Hilo Hawaii and others good activist souls are supporting this effort. Just e-mail and check in with info and contacts for the moment please. Call me or Rog if you know us. Let's do this right this time. George Soros? Other Billionaire Buddies? MPP? Are you listening? There's only 1.2 million people here, most of whom have at least "been" one of us. Perhaps here, we can get the ball rolling. DrugPeace to All Of You. We Use Cannabis Religiously, You Can Too. [ Post Comment ] Comment #17 posted by knox42897 on November 07, 2002 at 23:24:50 PT: Increase marijuana decrease alcohol? While legalization advocates suggest that the Dutch action to decriminalize marijuana in 1976 has had a benign effect, Walters said that's not true. "As drugs gained social acceptance, use increased consistently and sharply, with a 300 percent rise in use by 1996 among 18-20-year-olds."I woder if the consumption of alcohol decreased by 300 percent? [ Post Comment ] Comment #16 posted by FoM on November 07, 2002 at 22:54:16 PT Question I'm about done for the day but I would like to know why you all felt the Initiatives failed if you want to say why. I said it failed because it was hard to understand and the times we are living in. No one knows from the time an Initiative is planned how the world will be at election time so it isn't the fault of MPP or NRLE but does anyone have any ideas on what the voting public might understand next year? [ Post Comment ] Comment #15 posted by DdC on November 07, 2002 at 22:22:21 PT Bush Administration Heils Failure of Initiatives http://www.cannabinoid.com/boards/politics/media/36/36285.gif [ Post Comment ] Comment #14 posted by DdC on November 07, 2002 at 21:12:15 PT OiNkDeCePtion...D.E.A.th's G.E.Grapes of Wrath... Dictator of the Office of Nationalist "Drug Control" PoliceACS - Division of Analytical Chemistry - DAC Awards John P. Walters 1980MK Ultra http://www.mkultra.com/index.htmlThe Chemical Manipulation of Human Consciousness http://schools.limestone.on.ca/sydhs/ChemicalManipulation.htmlMKULTRA: CIA Mind Control http://www.parascope.com/ds/mkultra0.htmResources on Drug Experiments Performed by the U. S. Government http://www.dc.peachnet.edu/~shale/humanities/composition/assignments/experiment/lsd.htmlTerminator Seeds http://www.rafi.orgThe Natural Alternative to Toxic Food, Fuel and Fiber http://www.hemptech.com http://www.hemp.orgMost who receive this message are familiar with Alex White Plume's hemp farming activities on the Pine Ridge Reservation, and the feds' unconscionable destruction. The crops of a citizen of a sovereign nation. Bob Newland http://www.sodakhemp.orgThe Drug War Comes To The Rez http://www.cannabisnews.com/news/thread8646.shtmlTHE POLICE STATE COMETH by Rep.Ron Paul http://www.house.gov/paul/congrec/congrec97/cr062597b.htmIndustrial hemp Products Directory http://www.globalhemp.comInformation Network of the Americas - Colombia Report http://www.colombiareport.orgcannabisnews.com: medical related topics http://www.cannabisnews.com/news/list/medical.shtml"No class or group or party in Germany could escape its share of responsibility for the abandonment of the democratic Republic and the advent of Adolf Hitler. The cardinal error of the Germans who opposed Nazism was their failure to unite against it. ....the 63% of the German people who expressed their opposition to Hitler were much too divided and shortsighted to combine against a common danger which they must have known would overwhelm them unless they united, HOWEVER TEMPORARY, to stamp it out." -William L. Shirer, Schedule#1 Products Wally Keeps From Americans... U.S. or Them! [ Post Comment ] Comment #13 posted by FoM on November 07, 2002 at 19:35:08 PT My Opinion I believe the Initiatives failed because they were hard to figure out. In complex times people want simplicity. In simple times people are challenged by complexity I believe. I am not knocking the efforts but that is what I believe was the reason for them not winning but not what John Walters says. [ Post Comment ] Comment #12 posted by John Tyler on November 07, 2002 at 19:26:36 PT More propaganda from the drug czar This article is like something from a Twilight Zone totalitarian regime. Everything in it is distorted, weird and creepy. [ Post Comment ] Comment #11 posted by goneposthole on November 07, 2002 at 19:15:58 PT They can't see the forest for the trees The nitwitsOne would hope that a person would grow wiser through the years; more so, what one would expect.It is more disappointing as time goes by.Oh well, cheer up, things could get worse. So, I cheered up and sho'nuff, things got worse.If Mr. Walters would ever smoke a bit of bud, I would bet he would think fresh pumpkin pie with whipped cream topping would taste mighty fine. Along with that, a fresh cup of coffee for good digestion. He has a constipated brain. He needs to smoke a bowl. Hate the sin, not the sinner.Stay the hell away from dangerous drugs. Number one is alcohol.Do not smoke tobacco.Don't use drugs, smoke cannabis. You will be glad you do. [ Post Comment ] Comment #10 posted by canaman on November 07, 2002 at 18:35:39 PT They can't truly laugh because they live a lie I really feel sorry for them because they will never know the freedom we know in our hearts. We try to live life honestly and are able to laugh at the human comedy. I don't know but I can't see how people in their position can truly feel whole. Maybe they have no concience. [ Post Comment ] Comment #9 posted by MikeEEEEE on November 07, 2002 at 18:27:14 PT Job Security His job is safe for now.All that comes out of his mouth is crap. [ Post Comment ] Comment #8 posted by FoM on November 07, 2002 at 18:20:27 PT canaman You're right and it is a discusting way they have about them. They are gloating over being able to lock more people away from their friends, families and communities. That is what I call pathetic and I have a few more things I'd call it but I would have to delete my own post! LOL! Just kidding. You gotta laugh or else you'd cry. [ Post Comment ] Comment #7 posted by Patrick on November 07, 2002 at 18:16:17 PT PRO DRUG PROPOGANDA??? "no"I WOULD SAY THIS ARTICLE REALLY HURTS BUT INSTEAD IT JUST PROVES THEIR CONTEMPT FOR HUMANITY. SAD SAD SAD. They can gloat and dance about how righteous they are all they want to. In my opinion, they are truly damned for making war just for fun. [ Post Comment ] Comment #6 posted by canaman on November 07, 2002 at 18:15:06 PT FoM this government article is gloating I've seen other articles that have mentioned the victories. The drug warriors are on a roll and doing what they do best LIE!!! We should be used to it by now. [ Post Comment ] Comment #5 posted by The C-I-R-C-L-E on November 07, 2002 at 18:12:12 PT The only kernel of truth... The results "affirm what most Americans already know: that no family, no community, no state is better off with more drug use," Walters said in a statement issued November 6.So of course he then must've said:Walters echoed the policy statement President Bush had made earlier in the day to then "dismantle the pharmaceutical industry and issue a call to embrace all natural healing methods."What a credible source for information. THEY"D never lie to us, would they? I'm so glad we don't have to think, it hurts when I do... [ Post Comment ] Comment #4 posted by FoM on November 07, 2002 at 18:08:43 PT I'm Fuzzy in My Brain It isn't from drugs either! I really mind the word HAIL. It sounds like saluting Hitler! We won in San Francisco and in Massachusetts. They sure didn't mention the victories did they?Losing in Ohio was about drug policy not Cannabis so we are equal with wins and losses this year in my opinion. [ Post Comment ] Comment #3 posted by unknown pleasures on November 07, 2002 at 17:59:27 PT !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!??????????? How much longer will they get away with this shit???Sometimes I can keep all this in perspective, but really, insane bullshit! Insane!!!I'm really beyond words, they repeat the exact same madness over and over, and people buy it! This 'article' makes me feel so utterly helpless, beyond angry. This Government is one big CON. Screw elections, the whole thing needs to go. All of it. I'll take anarchy any day over this tyrannical horrorshow. [ Post Comment ] Comment #2 posted by canaman on November 07, 2002 at 17:58:32 PT Truth is the Victim When the War is all that matters then it's o.k. if everything you say is lie or half-truth and you pull numbers out of the air. This pro-war drug propangada was issue buy the government so is to be expected. We gained a few more objective journalist's during the last few months. We need to keep them interested in the lastest atrocities in the war on Americans. The uglier the better, violence sells. Stories of lives ruined, personal accounts of state sponsered corruption. If anyone knows of a compelling story follow it up. One thing I've noticed is most Americans want to believe their government means them no harm. We need to make Joe Citizen understand that injustice is injustice period. What hurts some hurts all. United we stand [ Post Comment ] Comment #1 posted by p4me on November 07, 2002 at 17:48:20 PT Even a newspaper won't copy this trash The Fascist Department of State has to echo Walters stupidity.Walters is not fit for public service. Does it get any more clear than when he talks?1 [ Post Comment ] Post Comment