For Now, Security Trumps Liberties

  For Now, Security Trumps Liberties
Posted by FoM on September 18, 2001 at 20:52:44 PT
By Brad Knickerbocker, Staff Writer of The CSM 
Source: Christian Science Monitor  
At times like this, a democracy must balance its need to protect itself with the freedoms that define it. Last week's terrorist attacks have raised the debate pitting homeland defense against civil liberties to a level not seen since World War II. In the days since the attacks on the World Trade Center in New York and the Pentagon in Washington, the US Senate has passed a bill allowing enhanced police wiretap powers and more widespread use of the Federal Bureau of Investigation's "Carnivore" Internet-surveillance system. 
The number of businesses conducting criminal background checks on employees has shot up. Congress is pushing more now to ban encryption products, legitimately used to protect business secrets, but also available as a tool by terrorists and other lawbreakers.Calls for racial and ethnic profiling in the name of domestic security are also increasing, as well as legislative proposals that would make it easier for government agencies to keep secrets. And there is likely to be expanded use of "face-recognition software" to scan everyday crowds for suspected criminals. Attorney General John Ashcroft says he wants to make it easier to detain foreigners, to wiretap phones, and to track money laundering.Warren Goldstein, an American-history professor at the University of Hartford in Connecticut, predicts that government agencies will begin scanning subscription lists for magazines, newspapers, and journals, as well as watching online book purchases. "I think we're going to return with far greater electronic powers of surveillance to the kinds of things which were commonplace in the 1950s," he says.Private businesses and organizations are also likely to increase their scrutiny of civilians.Robert Mather, president of, Inc. in Redding, Calif., reports a doubling of calls from employers who want to conduct criminal background checks on employees. "In the past, it was mainly new hires that were checked," says Mr. Mather. "Many executives are now looking closely at their current policy and procedures and including current employees."There's a historical pattern here. During the Civil War, Abraham Lincoln suspended writs of habeas corpus, part of the due process for criminal defendants. After World War I, suspected anarchists were arrested without warrant, and immigrants were deported. During World War II, 77,000 American citizens of Japanese ancestry were imprisoned for the duration of the war solely because of their race. During the cold war, it was illegal to teach communism. And after the 1995 Oklahoma City bombing, new legislation allowed the use of secret evidence to deport people.In retrospect, some of those acts were seen to have been wrong -legally questionable, if not unconstitutional - and based on unfounded fears.Today, the President and congressional leaders say the United States is at "war." But how willingly will Americans accept what could be the greatest impositions on their freedoms and the greatest level of government intrusiveness most of them have ever seen?With images of mass destruction and loss life seared into their consciousness, most seem willing to shift in the direction of heightened security. An ABC-Washington Post poll last week showed that 66 percent of Americans would give up some civil liberties to fight terrorism. The latest New York Times/CBS News Poll puts the figure at 74 percent."It's generally true, over the ages, that if you ask people to choose between freedom and security, they will choose security," says Clark McCauley, a psychology professor at Bryn Mawr College in Pennsylvania.Still, there is a difference between mere inconveniences and more-intrusive measures. While 86 percent in the New York Times/CBS Poll said they wouldn't mind guards and metal detectors at public buildings and events, and 69 percent said they'd be willing to arrive three hours early for a domestic-airline flight, only 39 percent said they would willingly allow government monitoring of their telephone calls and e-mail messages.That's still a figure that troubles some. "That means that there are 39 percent of the American people who would allow a level of governmental intrusion that you only have in American prisons or in the military during wartime," says Dr. Goldstein.Meanwhile, lawmakers across the political spectrum -from conservative Senate minority leader Trent Lott (R) of Miss. to liberal Rep. Barney Frank (D) of Mass. -approve of increased security measures that could impinge on personal liberties.Last year, following a recent pattern of attacks on Americans abroad, the National Commission on Terrorism recommended that "the Attorney General should ensure that the FBI is exercising fully its authority for investigating suspected terrorist groups or individuals, including authority for electronic surveillance."Still, there is growing concern that something fundamental to the US could be lost here. Some look at the "war on drugs" and wonder whether "collateral damage" there -racial profiling, police breaking into the wrong house, people mistakenly killed -is being sufficiently considered."Maybe the Senate wants to just go ahead and adopt new abilities to wiretap our citizens," says Sen. Patrick Leahy, chairman of the Senate Judiciary Committee. "Maybe they want to adopt new abilities to go into people's computers. Maybe that will make us feel safer. Maybe. And maybe what the terrorists have done made us a little bit less safe."Note: Amid heightened security, some worry about erosion of freedom.Source: Christian Science Monitor (US)Author: Brad Knickerbocker, Staff Writer of The Christian Science Monitor Published: September 19, 2001Copyright: 2001 The Christian Science Publishing SocietyContact: oped csps.comWebsite: Articles & Web Site:Holy Warriors Escalate an Old War’s Value - National Review Powers Sought for Surveillance FBI Using Net-Snooping Systems's Carnivore Gets a Thumbs Up
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Comment #49 posted by FoM on September 20, 2001 at 09:34:21 PT
Thank you Mari. What times we live in now and I appreciate all the good people who call C News a part of their life. I really do. I think we will need a place where people can talk in the future more then ever unfortunately.
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Comment #48 posted by Mari on September 20, 2001 at 09:11:19 PT
 Just testing.I re-registered.
   Keep your heart strong.You are doing a GREAT job here.I start and end my day reading here.The community you have established is one to be proud of.Thank you all for the insight, wisdom and humor you bring to the topics at hand.
  Blessed Be.
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Comment #47 posted by FoM on September 19, 2001 at 21:37:07 PT
Thought these lyrics ring home once again
The Five Man Electrical Band the sign said
long-haired freaky people need not applySo, I tucked my hair up under my hat and I went in to ask him whyHe said "You look like a fine upstanding young man, I think you'll do"So I took off my hat and said, "Imagine that, huh me working for you"whoaaaa signs, signs, everywhere a sign
blockin' out the scenery, breakin' my mindDo this, don't do that. Can't you read the signs?And the sign said "anybody caught trespassing would be shot on sight"
So I jumped on the fence and I yelled at the house"Hey, what gives you the right?To put up a fence to keep me out or to keep mother nature inIf God was here, he'd tell it to your faceman, you're some kind of sinner"whoaaaa signs, signs, everywhere a sign
blockin' out the scenery, breakin' my minddo this, don't do that. can't you read the signs?"now hey you mister can't you read?
you've got to have a shirt and tie to get a seatyou can't even watch, no you can't eatyou ain't supposed to be here"and the sign said, "You got to have a membership card to get inside" UUUUUHHHHHH!and the sign said, "everybody welcome. Come in, kneel down and pray" and when they passed around the plate at the end of it allI didn't have a penny to paySo I got me a pen and a paper and I made up my own little signI said, "thank you Lord for thinkin' 'bout me. I'm alive and doin' fine"whoaaaa signs, signs, everywhere a sign
blockin' out the scenery, breakin' my minddo this, don't do that. can't you read the signs?From "Goodbyes and Butteflies" (1971) 
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Comment #46 posted by FoM on September 19, 2001 at 21:26:36 PT
I'm glad you understand. The hate comments have gotten so out of hand. There was no choice but to make everyone register. I just don't have the heart or energy to spend so much time removing posts. I don't understand why people want to be mean spirited. I don't understand.
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Comment #45 posted by theropinfool on September 19, 2001 at 21:20:31 PT
the uniter
crtical mass link.........
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Comment #44 posted by lookinside on September 19, 2001 at 20:55:35 PT:
FoM...and everybody...
i know the feelings you speak of...this is a frustrating time for us...the terrorist attacks was the single most shocking event in my 51 years of living...i can only liken it to john kennedy's death in terms of deserves the coverage it gets...all the dialogue is good in several allows alot of different opinions to reach a large segment of the people...GWB is aware that he and his minions are being watched very carefully by everybody...bad choices won't be ignored...even here, we must face this crisis...we won't disappear...but we must focus on the same things we always have...the WoD will change...i think there will be opportunities to make progress...FoM, the number of "hits" is have brought alot of great people've created a community...we have a common cause...even if the "net" disappeared tomorrow, you've built something that will endure...please accept my thanks...
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Comment #43 posted by observer on September 19, 2001 at 20:35:24 PT
Benjamin Franklin said, ''They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.''
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Comment #42 posted by Dan B on September 19, 2001 at 18:11:14 PT:
Thanks, Matt
I appreciate the explanation. You are all doing a fabulous job here. I know it can be difficult to "change horses in midstream" (so to speak), and I applaud your efforts (FoM, too) to make the transition as smooth as possible.By the way, perhaps all of our names are now green because everyone has to be registered, so there is no longer a need for red.Dan B
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Comment #41 posted by tdm on September 19, 2001 at 18:05:07 PT
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Comment #40 posted by MDG on September 19, 2001 at 17:44:00 PT
This is just a test...if you hear this, do nothing.
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Comment #39 posted by mr greengenes on September 19, 2001 at 17:01:11 PT
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Comment #38 posted by 
Ananda Lewis Show 
Ananda Lewis Show 
Just a heads up in case anybody is interested, Ananda Lewis 
is having a show on legalizing marijuana for both 
recreational use and medical on Thursday(tomorrow). 
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Comment #37 posted by dddd on September 19, 2001 at 16:07:58 PT
things are not that bad.....enjoy it while you can....dddd
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Comment #36 posted by FoM on September 19, 2001 at 15:52:50 PT
Hi Dr. Russo
You are welcome. I'm totally stressed out. I'm glad there is a Doctor in the house if I pass out at the keyboard. Just kidding but thank you. I think there still is a little problem unless now we will be green. Matt will let us or me know Im sure.PS: I want to go back to before these tragedies and I think many people are waking up to what is going on because shock is wearing off. Am I right?PS: Thanks for the Budd, Bud 
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Comment #35 posted by FoM on September 19, 2001 at 15:47:15 PT:
Now I'm green but not with envy
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Comment #34 posted by FoM on September 19, 2001 at 15:45:21 PT:
One more time for old time sake! 
This is only a test! 
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Comment #33 posted by FoM on September 19, 2001 at 15:43:11 PT
Now I have a black name
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Comment #32 posted by FoM on September 19, 2001 at 15:42:13 PT
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Comment #31 posted by FoM on September 19, 2001 at 15:37:39 PT
Thank You Matt!
Now I'll embarrass you! You're so sweet! Thanks so very much!
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Comment #30 posted by Ethan Russo MD on September 19, 2001 at 15:37:19 PT:
For All You Do, This Budd's for You
FoM, thanks to the confusion, this is the 3rd time I have tried to say how valuable your contribution is to peace and freedom. Please continue to help us. I should be labelled in red now.
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Comment #29 posted by FoM on September 19, 2001 at 15:35:35 PT
Just a test Matt and everyone.
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Comment #28 posted by Matt Elrod on September 19, 2001 at 15:13:17 PT:
Weird happenings
Sorry about the wrapping business. I was just tweaking that as you were entering your comment. Concerning registration, yeah, only registered users can comment now :-(What's more, I had to purge the old registered users because there were over 500 of them and I was sure that the majority had not been around to comment for months or years. So basically everyone needs to re-register.Matt Elrod
Matt's Homepage
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Comment #27 posted by Dan B on September 19, 2001 at 15:11:48 PT:
I don't mean to complain. 
I am glad to see that it does not appear as one long line when posted to the message board. Thanks, FoM, for the great job you are doing. I have had only intermittent access to the Internet lately because I lost access at home when I moved (the phone jack was improperly connected). It is good to be back on the web at home.Best to everyone.Dan B
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Comment #26 posted by Dan B on September 19, 2001 at 15:08:41 PT:
Thanks, FoM.
What's going on? I tried to post a message just now, and it said I wasn't registered. Now, it is trailing off all of my writing in one big line at the top of the window unless I hit "Enter." What's up with that? Is AOL one of the blocked ISPs?Dan B
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Comment #25 posted by FoM on September 19, 2001 at 14:47:39 PT
Hi Dan
I'm sorry about your post hanging to the left. I know some people must use browser that don't line up right but I never had any problems using IE. I reported it to Matt. It is so hard to read long narrow posts for me. Good to see you.
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Comment #24 posted by Dan B on September 19, 2001 at 14:33:59 PT:
Frankly . . .
What upsets me more than trying to bring down the terrorist organizations is the attack from our government on civil liberties. If you think that this country will diminish its "war on drugs" in favor of the new "war on terrorism," you are very sadly mistaken. The "war on terrorism" will serve only to broaden the federal government's power to snoop into every aspect of your personal life--telephone conversations, Internet activity, random searches of vehicles (have to check for "incendiary devices"), body searches using the latest technology to invade your privacy, and the list goes on. If you think they've ratcheted up the war on drugs as far as it can go, think a agin. You ain't seen nothin' yet.As for equating Pat Robertson and Jerry Falwell with Osama bin Laden, there is vast gulf of difference between the two. True, Robertson and Falwell are wrong-minded, right-wing conservative ideologues who spew hatred toward anyone whose actions don't agree with their interpretation of the Bible, but they do not finance actual plots to murder those people, nor do they preach that killing "sinners" is a good way to carry out God's plan. They march right up to the brink of saying such things (as with the most recent case where they said that the terrorist attack is punishment from God for the "sins of America"), but they do not outright advocate murder. Osama bin Laden not only advocates murder, but also organizes murderous activities and makes damn certain that the murders will be carried out in plain view and in large numbers. To equate all religious zealots with these radical terrorist organizations is like saying that a discussion about the Ebola virus is every bit as dangerous as the virus itself. There is a world of difference.I have no problem with rooting out the organizations that are truly responsible for the massacre that took place in New York City, Washington D.C., and Pennsylvania. These are not just organizations whose members hold to a radical ideology, these are organizations that plan and carry out mass murders and other major crimes against humanity as an expression of that ideology. I do, however, have a very big problem with any measures that would undermine the rights and freedoms Americans have managed to cling to over the years in the face of growing opposition to the U. S. Constitution by the U. S. government. Anyone who calls for or votes for such measures should be tried for treason and treated in the same manner that this country is now planning to treat the terrorists. Dan B
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Comment #23 posted by FoM on September 19, 2001 at 11:29:15 PT
After I read your comment I went and looked and we have 897, 957 Total Hits so far this month. That's a lot and I am pleased to say the least. I feel better because I said that I was afraid and you all are giving me strength to go on. Maybe I just needed to mention that I feel vulnerable. I try not to do that but this is all different and I know lots of us are afraid.  
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Comment #22 posted by ekim on September 19, 2001 at 11:20:51 PT:
We are planning to watch C-SPAN a party 
Please people lets get together and see the glass half full. No matter what happens here in MI. The Soros people are allready planning other petitions. We have the Gov. of NM. standing with us. We have some of the brightest minds in the country looking into the use of plants for fuel, plastics, paper, fiber. in Illinois. They have given there Gov. Ryan three hemp bills. He is history but all the great thinkers are not. The hemp bills will be returning. The good Doctor here has seen many changes, we must keep going. FOM havent your numbers for the site been strong in all this. What was the old saying tho I fear the shadow of death I will go on. Hey why not if we beleive something to be true what has changed. Please tell us if you plan a party to watch C-SPAN. The debate "Directing America's Drug War: Which Way To A Safer Society?" was staged and recorded for National Public Radio's "Justice Talking" program. The entire debate is currently scheduled to air on Sunday, 7 October 2001 over public radio stations nationwide. It also will be broadcast on C-SPAN. 
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Comment #21 posted by FoM on September 19, 2001 at 11:19:20 PT
New Mexican
Thank you New Mexican and everyone.There is only one good thing about this tragedy. Unity.We might need each other in the future and that's why this site needs to keep going but it is going to be very hard. I'm still waiting to wake up and find out this was all a bad dream.
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Comment #20 posted by New Mexican on September 19, 2001 at 11:10:42 PT
Don't give up FOM! We need esch other!
This site is the only thing that keeps all of us from going crazy FOM and I hope you're okay with that. You are doing a greater service than you know, and I truly feel that these events of the past week will backfire in our favor sooner than later. Keep the faith, I've been doing my research and things will change.
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Comment #19 posted by dddd on September 19, 2001 at 11:06:05 PT
I would have never noticed the 'Comedy/comic' dog thing if you hadntbusted yourself on it.....but,,I really liked what you said about yoursense of humor keeping you going..I consider laughter to be an extremelypotent medicine,and I hope you will be able to laugh again's alotmore fun than crying,,,and it will be a while before they figure out away to make laughing illegal....If laughter was a drug,,it would be reallyexpensive,,and if you got busted for it,,the mandatory minimum woulddouble,,if you laughed in front of a judge,,or within 500 feet of a school.................dddd
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Comment #18 posted by MDG on September 19, 2001 at 10:44:25 PT
Uh, "Comic" dog, not "comedy".
Oh well.
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Comment #17 posted by Hope4usAll on September 19, 2001 at 10:43:35 PT
  No one can really see where the drug reform will go from here, but I believe that when our country is in a time of war they might see a realilistic vew of priorities. The Drug war may not end, however the war on weed may indeed come to a blunt stop. During WW2 Americans were called on to grow hemp for the troops. As we see a real war, that directly ends the lives of innocent Americans, maybe people in general will find the understanding that we need. 
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Comment #16 posted by MDG on September 19, 2001 at 10:41:10 PT
The collective sense of humor seems dead...
I only watched a couple of minutes of Jay Leno last night, mostly as I waited for Conan. I just turned it on MUTE when he was doing the John McCain interview. Then, I just went to sleep a few minutes into it. What's the point? I just want to hear Triumph, the Insult Comedy Dog, say, "Next to the War on Drugs, the War on Terrorism is the biggest scam pulled on the American people...for me to poop on!"Damn, it seems like no one laughs anymore. My sense of humor is the only thing I've got going for me...and I don't even make myself laugh these days.
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Comment #15 posted by dddd on September 19, 2001 at 10:36:48 PT
Right On FoM
You are the BEST!!!Keep The Faith!Love...dddd
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Comment #14 posted by Patrick on September 19, 2001 at 10:34:44 PT
Hang in there FoM
I love you for what you are doing here. You run a website that I have found to be both therapeutic and informative. Cannabis use is all about PEACE. We need that message now more than ever. Granted there may not be a lot of news about cannabis prohibition right now. To me that is a good thing! I think our common cause is as strong as ever now. It will be awhile before law enforcement returns, if ever, to the drug war on marijuana. The criminal justice focus has definitely shifted in this country. This event has changed our national psyche. I will still laugh, cry, and share my viewpoint with you as long as possible. Cannabis has a history over 5000 years old and not one shred of evidence that using it causes violence. Violence is the result of its prohibition. So until the day comes that we can freely grow marijuana in our gardens, you have a purpose here greater than yourself and those of us that post our views here. God Bless America and You! Hang in there.
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Comment #13 posted by FoM on September 19, 2001 at 10:24:10 PT
OK Thanks I'll Try
I am not a quiter. I am a fighter. I was alone and decided to watch Jay Leno and Conan O'Brien last night and watching them try to deal with this shows how desperate the world is becoming. Nothing is funny anymore. Everything is very serious. I know we will have young men killed in this war. We have a right to be as upset as we are as a Nation and individuals. I want Cannabis News to continue and as long as we are allowed I will. I just won't find much news but all of you are what makes Cannabis News tick. I love all of you and will not let you down or then I would feel like a failure and I couldn't handle that following me around for the rest of my life.
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Comment #12 posted by Poisoned1523Days on September 19, 2001 at 10:13:39 PT
We can use the terrorism hysteria to our advantage
I don't think we should get discouraged.One of the fundamental ideas of the harm reduction approach isthat legalization denies funding toviolent criminal groups. If we stay on topic with this message it will fit right in to the current situation. 
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Comment #11 posted by dddd on September 19, 2001 at 10:12:10 PT
Please,dont be thinking you dont have a purpose anymore!The reasonyou started this may seem to be getting lost,or drowned out by therecent happenings,but what is going on here is extremely special andimportant,,and I dont think I'm the only one who feels this way.I realize that things have become out of focus,and confused recently,but no matter how strange things get,,our original cause remains asa coomon bond,and goal!.....try to avoid letting what has happened getyou down....We all know that our world has changed,but we are all stillhere,living in the same world as before.I can understand how it is alot of work,to keep this going,,but dont beside-tracked by such things as "getting ready for war"....If there is awar,it will be a really different kind of war,,,a sort of interesting typeof war,,and it may seem sick to talk about it as "interesting",,but I'mafraid things are going to go on,in the way that they are going to go on..,,regardless of any amount of worry,fear,insecurity,shock,displeasure,,or anything else,,,what's gonna happen,,is gonna happen,,just like the weather,,,I still like to say..."Keep on Keepin on".....LoL....dddd
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Comment #10 posted by FoM on September 19, 2001 at 09:08:57 PT
Let me see if I can say how I feel. We shouldn't throw rocks at Christian Fundamentalist because they believe they are doing the right thing. Everyone that believes with their whole heart in their Faith or convictions shouldn't be hated but we should feel sorry for them that they can't see. We all have our strong convictions. I know the world will never be the same and we should really weigh what we say so that we don't become part of the problem instead of helping to be a solution. I don't know where Cannabis News is going anymore. It might not have a purpose much longer and that makes me very sad. I'm talking to my husband right now about all my mixed feelings I am having. Many things will change in our lives as we get ready for war. I don't believe we will see much change in current drugs laws now and we were so close. I hope my feelings about our future are wrong but I wanted to say how I feel at this moment.
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Comment #9 posted by dddd on September 19, 2001 at 08:05:44 PT
and furthermore Poisoned
...I see nothing wrong with "picking on" Falwell or Robertson,,In fact,,,I would encourage picking on these pompous freaks!.....This pair of loudmouths may have started out with goodintentions,,but they have dimented into American Ayatollahs,,,they have become like the Tammy Fay Baker Swaggart Jonesof commercialized god product pushers.They have lost sight ofwhat they began as,,,the idea that they could be "picked on",islike suggesting that dubya is honest and smart....dddd
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Comment #8 posted by Silent_Observer on September 19, 2001 at 08:00:42 PT
To see these two as being any less than a threat is being blind.The only difference is, they wear suits, have Southern accents and use Biblical language.I do believe this proves a point I had been making earlier - people are less likely to see you as a threat if you look like one of them.
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Comment #7 posted by dddd on September 19, 2001 at 07:30:20 PT
..You dont see how they could be a threat?,,,,well,consider theAyatollah Homeini.(obvious mis-spelling),,how would he be a threatto anyone?,,Who is a threat,,and who can say how we judge who isa threat? In the case of Falwell,or Robertson,I dont think we could say thatthey are a "threat",but they do lead a massive amount of peoplewith their ideology,and if we are to blame people such as bin Ladenfor the actions of zealots that he has brainwashed,and influencedby means of religious fundamentalism,,,then how are we to distinguish,or draw the line at blaming people who we think caused people tocommit murder?...would this mean that certain people in the ondcp,and hardcore drug war proponents should be held responsible forinnocent people who were murdered by SWAT team,wrong house,no knockraids?....If we follow the logic of this new war on terror insanity,wecould trace responsibility for for anything to anyone.This new War on Terror,is absurd and crazy!It has no basis in reality,logic,or reason!...It makes George Orwells' writings seem like he knew somethingno one else did,,it makes the strangeness of the biblical mysteries concerningthe end of times,,worth another look!....From here on out,,,things are goingto become even wierder!!!!....That's why,,I recommend that everyone takethe time to enjoy the good stuff in our life on earth today...Life is a specialpriveledge.If one is fortunate enough to experience it,then one should makethe most of it,and try to make the best of it....You cannot die,,,unless you have lived...Carlos Castenada wrote about something the Shaman told him,in his book,"A Seperate Reality"(*)......The Shaman said.."One should live every day,as if it were the last day of their life.Only then will your actions have their true power."dddd(*)possible innacuracies in exactness of quote and book title.
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Comment #6 posted by Poisoned1523Days on September 19, 2001 at 06:21:30 PT
Falwell and Robertson
 I don't think we should pick on Falwelland Robertson. Neither are terroristsor engage in violent behavior. They merely have a set of beleifs that theystrongly believe in. I do not thinkconservativ Christians are a threat toanybody. I will admit though that I am not an expert on these men. Please let me know if I have missed something. I just do not see howthey are a threat to us.
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Comment #5 posted by MikeEEEEE on September 19, 2001 at 05:53:07 PT
Good quote
This is, indeed, terrorism's prime strategy, as the philosopher/father of terrorism, Georges Sorel, pointed out in 1908 in his hugely influential Reflections on Violence. If terror is an instrument of the weak, escalation is the mistake of power.Any good leader knows fear modivates an angry public, enough fear could easily be used to take their personal freedoms away.
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Comment #4 posted by MikeEEEEE on September 19, 2001 at 05:46:49 PT
Excuses to take freedom
As the sheep sleep in fear the powers find the opportunity to take more freedoms away. The enemy isn't here, or maybe it is? 
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Comment #3 posted by theropinfool on September 19, 2001 at 05:19:45 PT
And if you want me assassinated for misspelling assassinated, fine.
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Comment #2 posted by theropinfool on September 19, 2001 at 05:14:03 PT
What security?
In 1976 Gerald Ford issued an executive order that heads of state could not be assasinated.Am I correct?I hope that George Bush will sign an executive order declaring common, ordinary US citizens like Tom Crosslin cannot be assasinated.Love thy neighbor as thine own self, unless of course he is your fellow countryman.Who would you rather have as a neighbor, Tom Crosslin or Osama bin Laden?You have no choice in the matter, sorry.I'll take freedom, for I have no security.It is both insane and sad. Heaping amounts of both, there is. God Almughty
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Comment #1 posted by dddd on September 19, 2001 at 04:10:17 PT
For those who are obsessed with retaliation..
...perhaps the following simplistic idea will help..........Let's step back for a minute,and look at this in the big picture.Here in the US,,people who actually kill people,are subject torecieving the death penalty.......people who kill a bunch of people,are even more likely to get the death penalty...OK..consider this*)The people who actually did this,,are DEAD!...they are the oneswho actually killed all these people,and they are dead.*)Even if they would have somehow survived,,could there notbe a legitamate argument made that they were in fact,insane,andmentally ill to the point of suicidal fervor,caused by religiousindoctrination/brainwashing?*)If we somehow blame the people who indoctrinated the suicidepilots into committing these acts,,and we seek revenge that is aimedat any and all who may have had anything to do with them,,,then whywould we not do the same to the purveyors of anti-abortion rhetoricthat has caused several incidents in which leaders of the movementencouraged deranged followers to bomb abortion clinics?If this War on Terror,and anyone who harbored a terrorist makes sense,,,then why dont we go after the Falwells and Robertsons of the world too,,?and to extend the nightmare,,,how long will it be,before the same peoplewho are talking about "draining the swamp",,or,,"wanted,,dead or alive",will be applying the same absurd policies to anyone who is pro-choice,or who is pro-drugs?'s not that big of a step to go from hunting downand exterminating anyone who is a suspected terrorist,,,to hunting downand killing anyone who is suspected of anything else that the Evil Empiredoesn't like!dddd
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