cannabisnews.com: Johnson, DEA Chief Talk Dope
Johnson, DEA Chief Talk Dope
Posted by FoM on September 11, 2001 at 10:47:03 PT
By Leslie Linthicum, Journal Staff Writer
Source: Albuquerque Journal
Two baby boomer guys, children of the 1960s, got together in Albuquerque on Monday to talk about drugs. But Gary Johnson, New Mexico's governor, and Asa Hutchinson, administrator of the nation's Drug Enforcement Administration — both trim Republicans with blue suits and conservative haircuts — could not have been farther apart on the direction the country's drug policies should take. In an hour long national radio debate, Johnson, a 48-year-old former pot smoker, hammered home the message that has become his crusade:
Marijuana is not as harmful as alcohol and government resources are wasted in arresting and jailing pot smokers who otherwise do not break the law. "I believe the war on drugs is an absolute, miserable failure," Johnson said. Hutchinson, 50, and a former federal prosecutor who says he has never smoked a joint, faced a somewhat hostile crowd at the University of New Mexico's Continuing Education Center as he argued that marijuana use is harmful to individuals and society and that criminal penalties are the best approach to reducing use. "Drug use is harmful," Hutchinson said. "I don't think you discourage use by saying we're not going to make it a criminal offense." The debate, "Directing America's Drug War: Which Way To A Safer Society?", was staged and recorded for National Public Radio's "Justice Talking" program. It will air at 11 a.m. on Oct. 7 on KUNM, 89.9 FM, and other public radio stations nationwide. It also will be broadcast on C-SPAN. The auditorium at the Continuing Education Center was full Monday, with more than 300 people in attendance. The crowd ranged from dark-suited DEA agents to pony-tailed men wearing bib overalls and sandals. But it weighed heavily toward Johnson's message of leniency. Johnson was cheered repeatedly and Hutchinson was booed several times, despite NPR host Margot Adler's warnings that crowd responses were not welcome during the taping. Johnson drew laughs when he lost his train of thought in the middle of an answer and won loud applause when he said, "The government assumes that everyone who smokes marijuana belongs in rehab. It's just not true." Johnson's message — that marijuana, hard drugs, tobacco and alcohol hamper performance and are "bad choices" but should not be criminal offenses — has captured national attention. The governor, a Libertarian-leaning former businessman, favors decriminalizing possession of small amounts of marijuana. He would establish government-run clinics to dispense heroin and cocaine to addicts and run needle-exchange programs. He argues for counseling rather than jail time for possession of heroin and cocaine. Hutchinson, newly appointed as the country's top drug cop, believes in treatment and education as an option for courts dealing with first-time marijuana offenders. But he takes a hard line on criminal penalties for harder drugs and continued commitment to the country's attack on drug trafficking. The men disagreed on fundamental approaches to drug use and enforcement. On the so-called "war on drugs," the federal government's 20-year-old attack on drug importation and trafficking, Hutchinson said stemming the flow will reduce supply, and the lack of availability will reduce use. Johnson called interdiction efforts a failure. "This is pissing in the wind," the governor said. "We're not having an impact. We're not stemming the influx of illegal drugs into this country." On removing criminal penalties for marijuana use, Johnson said it is absurd to believe more people will smoke pot if it is legal. Hutchinson said: "I don't think you reduce harm by legalizing another harmful substance. It is illogical." Johnson has said he smoked pot in high school and used cocaine on occasion during college and into his 20s. He quit using drugs in his 20s and no longer drinks alcohol. Now a dedicated athlete, he eschews caffeine and rarely eats sugar. Hutchinson said following the debate that he never tried marijuana even though he is of the generation that embraced a relaxed attitude toward drug experimentation.Source: Albuquerque Journal (NM)Author: Leslie Linthicum, Journal Staff WriterPublished: Tuesday, September 11, 2001 Copyright: 2001 Albuquerque JournalAddress: P.O. Drawer J, Albuquerque, N.M. 87103Contact: opinion abqjournal.comWebsite: http://www.abqjournal.com/Related Articles & Web Sites: Justice Talkinghttp://www.justicetalking.org/Governor Gary Johnson's Home Pagehttp://www.governor.state.nm.us/Dope Debatehttp://cannabisnews.com/news/thread10894.shtmlLeaders Discuss Drug War Policyhttp://cannabisnews.com/news/thread10893.shtmlPro-Pot Governor Debates DEA Chief http://cannabisnews.com/news/thread10892.shtmlN.M. Gov. Debates Legalizing Drugs with DEA http://cannabisnews.com/news/thread10890.shtml
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Comment #49 posted by freedom fighter on September 12, 2001 at 20:28:00 PT
All we need is forgivenss
I agree with just every posting that is made here. Too bad, that noone is paying attention to Johnson/Asa debate.Notice how quickly the "Drug issues" are shoved back into a closet?I do.Notice how quickly people are talking about liberties and too much freedom?Saw a pix in my local newspaper, a man holding a sign "Someone will pay for this!"hmmm..ff
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Comment #48 posted by FoM on September 12, 2001 at 18:15:16 PT
Excerpts from Governor Johnson's Debate
Hi Everyone, I just received an email that told me about being able to hear excerpts from the debate. Here it is!NPR's Barbara Bradley reports on a debate over drug policy reform, featuring Republican Governor of New Mexico Gary Johnson, and DEA Chief Asa Hutchinson. Hear excerpts from the debate. http://www.npr.org/ramfiles/me/20010911.me.11.ram
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Comment #47 posted by Doug on September 12, 2001 at 09:31:52 PT
Those Who Live By the Sword...
For those of us old enough to remember, this has felt more like the period right after the Kennedy assassination, with everybody gathered around television sets, than anything else I can remember. And my first thought upon hearing the news is what Malcolm X said (and got in hot water for) after that event: The chickens are coming home to roost.This is a seemingly universal law: what you put out eventuallly cmes back to you. And thought it certainly was not mentioined, and never is, on tv, this country has put out a lot of violence over the years, I consider us the major terrorist in the world.But of course nothing positive will come from this tragedy. Like others on this thread, I see this as a real oportunity to instigate even more of a police state. Consider the anti-terrorism laws that were passed in the wake of the Oklahoma City bombing; the laws that come out of this event will even be stronger and more repressive.I also see that we will soon attack someone else, just to make us feel better -- there is a real blood lust about to get the people who did this. And that will result it further retribution. Nothing good comes from violence.
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Comment #46 posted by speshul on September 12, 2001 at 08:16:50 PT
Noam Chomsky Comment
Today's attacks were major atrocities. In terms of number of victimsthey do not reach the level of many others, for example, Clinton'sbombing of the Sudan with no credible pretext, destroying half itspharmaceutical supplies and probably killing tens of thousands of people(no one knows, because the US blocked an inquiry at the UN and no onecares to pursue it). Not to speak of much worse cases, which easily cometo mind. But that this was a horrendous crime is not in doubt. Theprimary victims, as usual, were working people: janitors, secretaries,firemen, etc. It is likely to prove to be a crushing blow toPalestinians and other poor and oppressed people. It is also likely tolead to harsh security controls, with many possible ramifications forundermining civil liberties and internal freedom.The events reveal, dramatically, the foolishness of ideas about "missiledefense." As has been obvious all along, and pointed out repeatedly bystrategic analysts, if anyone wants to cause immense damage in the US,including weapons of mass destruction, they are highly unlikely tolaunch a missile attack, thus guaranteeing their immediate destruction.There are innumerable easier ways that are basically unstoppable. Buttoday's events will, nonetheless, be used to increase the pressure todevelop these systems and put them into place. "Defense" is a thin coverfor plans for militarization of space, and with good PR, even theflimsiest arguments will carry some weight among a frightened public.In short, the crime is a gift to the hard jingoist right, those who hopeto use force to control their domains. That is even putting aside thelikely US actions, and what they will trigger -- possibly more attackslike this one, or worse. The prospects ahead are even more ominous thanthey appeared to be before the latest atrocities.Noam Chomsky
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Comment #45 posted by LameBrain on September 12, 2001 at 04:00:35 PT
Actual Bush from second debate
BUSH: "Well, I think they ought to look at us as a country that understands freedom where it doesn't matter who you are or how you're raised or where you're from, that you can succeed. I don't think they'll look at us with envy. It really depends upon how our nation conducts itself in foreign policy. If we're an arrogant nation, they'll resent us. If we're a humble nation, but strong, they'll welcome us. An it's -- our nation stands alone right now in the world in terms of power, and that's why we have to be humble. And yet project strength in a way that promotes freedom. So I don't think they ought to look at us in any way other than what we are. We're a freedom-loving nation and if we're an arrogant nation they'll view us that way, but if we're a humble nation they'll respect us."
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Comment #44 posted by Rambler on September 12, 2001 at 03:47:16 PT
air travel
I just saw the news concerning the re-opening of airports,and they said they are no longer going to allow pocket knives.Previously,a pocket knife with a blade less than 4 inches were allowed.They will be confiscating penknives.So,I'm going to treat every one to where the smart money is in the stock market,or an idea for opening up a new company.Your money would be well spent,in investing in the plastic "no stab" airline eating utensils industry.Gone are the days of metal silverware on airplanes.They will make some new law,with rigid specifications for new,flimsy,harmless anti-terrorist eating utensils.Blunted forks that can barely stab withered lettuce.Joke-shop knives that will barely sever a crumbly meat loaf.Next,will be restrictions on pens and pencils.After that,who knows?Perhaps all passengers should be handcuffed during air travel,but only in coach.For an extra couple of hundred bucks,and proof of insurance,you could be approved for Uniteds new "no cuff first class"
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Comment #43 posted by dddd on September 12, 2001 at 03:12:21 PT
Atta Boy Professor Lehder
...I like the stoutness and heft of your spiritDont change it,,,and dont stop!Sicerely...dddd
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Comment #42 posted by Lehder on September 12, 2001 at 02:40:03 PT
okay,dddd,Dan
if you're feeling offended, Dan B. then I apologize for my excited comment, received perhaps by some as internecine.I thought last night that the u.s. would be mistaken to regard this as "rally round the flag" time, which is what's being asked of us by the g, - congress singing god bless america, sickening, 'god bless congress' - meaning rally behind the corrupt and crazy g as usual, rally round the same atrociousness, as usual. And I am so glad to see that many comments are pointing out that the policies of our governemnt have brought us this trouble and much other trouble and that bombing somebody or other fixes nothing, evil and inexcusable as the attack was, and let's hope "was" is the right word. It's time people had a chance to participate in their own fates. and if this attack was conducted by americans - flight simulator training, pilots, the 911 allusion,if intentional, sure sound american - well, it's not just a tragedy, but...what?, something beyond tragedy even. sorry. now i'm gonna go have some cookies.
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Comment #41 posted by Rambler on September 12, 2001 at 01:03:41 PT
article,(sorry about format)
DAVID MCREYNOLDS, WAR RESISTERS LEAGUE: We urge Congress and George Bush that whatever response or policy the U.S. develops it will be clear that this nation will no longer target civilians, or accept any policy by any nation which targets civilians. This would mean an end to the sanctions against Iraq, which have caused the deaths of hundreds of thousands of civilians. It would mean not only a condemnation of terrorism by Palestinians but also the policy of assassination against the Palestinian leadership by Israel, and the ruthless repression of the Palestinian population and the continuing occupation by Israel of the West Bank and Gaza. The policies of militarism pursued by the United States have resulted in millions of deaths, from the historic tragedy of the Indochina war, through the funding of death squads in Central America and Colombia, to the sanctions and air strikes against Iraq. This nation is the largest supplier of "conventional weapons" in the world - and those weapons fuel the starkest kind of terrorism from Indonesia to Africa. The early policy of support for armed resistance in Afghanistan resulted in the victory of the Taliban - and the creation of Osama Bin Laden. Other nations have also engaged in these policies. We have, in years past, condemned the actions of the Russian government in areas such as Chechnya, the violence on both sides in the Middle East, and in the Balkans. But our nation must take responsibility for its own actions. Up until now we have felt safe within our borders. To wake on a clear cool day to find our largest city under siege reminds us that in a violent world, none are safe. Let us seek an end of the militarism which has characterized this nation for decades. Let us seek a world in which security is gained through disarmament, international cooperation, and social justice - not through escalation and retaliation. We condemn without reservation attacks such as those which occurred, which strike at thousands of civilians. May these profound tragedies remind us of the impact U.S. policies have had on other civilians in other lands. We are particularly aware of the fear which many people of Middle Eastern descent, living in this country, may feel at this time and urge special consideration for this community. We are one world. We shall live in a state of fear and terror or we shall move toward a future in which we seek peaceful alternatives to conflict and a more just distribution of the world's resources. As we mourn the many lives lost, our hearts call out for reconciliation, not revenge.
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Comment #40 posted by SirReal on September 11, 2001 at 23:05:39 PT
DRUGS=MONEY=OIL
O.K.,....now,...is it clear?? Do we reeeeeaallly neeeed oil any more???I say, switch the technology. It'll take about 18 months to retool, and then turn the middle east into a freakin parking lot!
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Comment #39 posted by Patrick on September 11, 2001 at 19:00:04 PT
Sky Marshals instead of pot plant cops?
It's an easy switch of priorities.DEA has $20 billion budget.I would volunteer for Sky Marshall duty on Hemp Airways flights to Amsterdam and back. Hemp Airways The Peaceful Airline. Fly in a Purple Haze. Our pilots and crew still prefer to fly sober BTW.
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Comment #38 posted by Patrick on September 11, 2001 at 18:19:19 PT
Last nights Debate Title
Directing America's Drug War: Which Way To A Safer Society?Today's Debate TitleDirecting America: Which Way To A Safer Society?
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Comment #37 posted by Patrick on September 11, 2001 at 18:10:01 PT
Lehder
Are ya fired up?I do think that the targets were part of the message as I stated. I also think todays date was part of their sadistic plot. What is the first thing us americans do in an emergency? we call 9 11? I am so shocked. I want answers like I wanted answers to Tom's shooting. I can't focus on anything else today. Don't want to focus on anything else other than who did this and when is the war on marijuana and our freedom gonna be exposed as the sham that it is?I am curious about the destination of the 4th plane? Sick curiousity I know but, was it destined for the pentagon as in two planes in ny? and 2 planes in pentagon? or white house? or camp david? Guess we'll never know on that one. I am amazed the net stayed up today. How did this horror occur? How was the hijacking of 4, FOUR, as in "One TWO THREE FOUR What the hell we fightin for" aircraft get hijacked at once on 911 and get used in this way????? That to me, personally, is the frickin question of the day, Drug WAR? Screw the frickin DEA. That outfit is dead, useless, Asa exposed that yeserday as near as I can tell. He is clueless about his mission. Well I have a mission for him and his agents. They want to perform no knock raids and have adrenalin rush excitement? CHASE FRICKIN TERRORISTS NOT MARIJUANA. Those agents better become terrorist hunters real quick and give up chasing pot plants. The american public will be making demands on our new government like crazy very shortly. This has barely sunk in yet for most. Things are changing rather quickly. kaptinemo, I think it was said, "this is a dangerous time" martial law could be scary. Planes? What about travel by plane? This kinda of thing could have a timetable several cells deep? How will we ever know that next time the plans don't call for 8 planes on a global scale instead of just 4 here the US?????My 40 billion DEA government dollars ought to be spent fightin this kind of sadistic display we witnessed today. And another thing mr. asa hutchinson, this kinda terrorism crap is not caused by marijuana no matter how sick and twisted your warped sense of irrational puritan sense of perversionistic control freak master law bullshi\ gets. marijuana does not cause violence. Peace.
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Comment #36 posted by Silent_Observer on September 11, 2001 at 18:04:24 PT
Lehder..nice to see you post again..
It is so hard for me at this moment to retain any clarity of thought. On the one hand, my Libertarian leanings point very clearly towards this incident being the result of a somewhat intrusive policy on our part. On the other hand, it is impossible for me to deny the reality of so many people losing their lives in such an unprecedented manner.I can't help but be very deeply saddened to see that those two beautiful towers - that I have flown over hundreds of times - are no longer there. I don't mind telling you, I really do love NYC - even though I don't live there - and this really hurts.I can see both your point of view and Dan's - but I really think that the worst is yet to come.kapt has suggested in more than one post that we be on our guard. I wish I could understand more clearly what he means, but I think I agree.No matter, I do wish everyone on this board a sense of peace - to the extent that can be achieved in a trying time like this.
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Comment #35 posted by dddd on September 11, 2001 at 17:38:25 PT
Easy there Lehder old boy!
Although I tend to agree with your take on this Lehder,,..I think it's perhaps a bit loud of you to say Dan B,"doesntget it".Dan Bs well considered views dont deserve such ablanket rebuke......I think it's a good time to try and staycool,collected,and polite amongst our family of fellowfreedom fighters...dddd
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Comment #34 posted by Lehder on September 11, 2001 at 17:24:22 PT
No, Dan, you don't get it.
And I don't expect many will.As Patrick understands, the choice of the targets is the message.I have watched only less than a half hour of tv since the attacks - the pictures tell it all.It's an attack on the U.S. policy of world military, moral, cultural and economic domination.It's exactly what the protestors in Seattle were about and the attacks will get the same dumb response.I am disappinted but not surprised at all at the obtuseness of our governemnt's responses. First of all, we haveevacuated Disneyland. In my city, schools and universitites have been shut down. These are not the institutions ofmilitary and economic control. It's stupid. The terrorists are not about to take cridit for their attacks: the message has not been receivedand the attacks are not over - they may be over for now, but not for ever.The response of the American people is going to be just as stupid. They will rally behind the government seeking revenge and imagine thatif Osama bin Laden can be killed then our troubles will be over. It's the same as busting a few kingpins and expecting the end of the "drug problem."Supporting the government in these efforts is akin to taking booze to an alcoholic. It's much like a smaller scale problem I saw on another hapless foray into TV land a few weeks ago. This story was about U.S. embassies being attacked with bombs.The solution - well it had been proposed prior to the African explosion by an outraged and selfrighteous expert - *shatter-proof glass! Ah, it's the alcoholic again with a diseased alcoholic solution: I'll drink only wine, or I'll drink only fine liquor, or I'll drinkk only after dinner, or I'll drink only on weekends. Madness!!The U.S. is in the throes of a mental illness on a vast scale, as vast and dangerous as the Nazi madness sixty years ago.And look what it took for them to get the message! Likely it will be the same for us. I'll tell you, though I have'nt yet thought it through, but I'll tell my very rough idea of what thesolution must be. But I want to mention first that I fully expect, for only what I have said so far, to be roundly condemned for my insensitivity and dispatriotism, for my callous disregard for life etc etc blah blah just like I want to see children hooked on heroin because i favor legalizing grass, right.In turn I ask: Will the pleasure of indulgence in America's brave prejudice by condemning me and those who look in a similar direction be worth the many years to follow of further restrictions on our liberty, the further bombings and terrorist attacks that are sure to folow for many years to come? Indeed, to most it will be! We should demand the immediate resignation of bush, cheney and the entire governemnt. Hold new elections after public debate of all the issues of the day, give up our ricidulous policy of world domination. That's it. The whole country should be in the street demanding new elections and booting out the white rascals for what they have brought down on us and for what is about to come. Butr it ain't gonna happen. Even a man like Odysseus struggled to get shed of his trouble, and all his followers lsot their live on the way. Bush hasn't got a chance.No, we're, as the talking heads just told me, going to "be galvanized as after the attack on Pearl Harbor", seek out our enemies and destroy them.Well, I'm not against identifying and punishing the guilty. The problem is that that's as far as it goes with us Americans, addicted to our bravado and proud ignorance. It's jsut like the drug war. And all the while we'll be serving booze to alcoholics. I'm not going to discuss htis event any more; I'm a stargazer, not a politician.Are we having fun yet?
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Comment #33 posted by mr.greengenes on September 11, 2001 at 16:50:13 PT
saddam
I have'nt heard any mention of Saddam yet. Seems to me this would be the perfect revenge on Bush Sr. for the gulf war, since his boy is in charge now. Makes sense to me.
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Comment #32 posted by Jose Melendez on September 11, 2001 at 16:25:05 PT:
SLED! Post the tape!
please?
Jose Melendez
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Comment #31 posted by rooster on September 11, 2001 at 16:24:04 PT
exscuse the misspellings please
Do to the fact that Im buzzed right now
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Comment #30 posted by rooster2871 on September 11, 2001 at 16:20:59 PT
New York
WHAT THE F***!!!! I can't believe this horrible tragedy that happened this morning. I live on Long Island, about 45 min from Manhatten,and to see this happen to such a monumental landmark,and the pentagon,is just to much to bear. This definitaly is war, and I hope as well that the WOD would deminish in the process but this more than WOD, but an issue that Bush probably pissrd some third world country off.Whoever had done this, must been planning and orchistrated this attack. Think with todays technology we be able to detect this kind of thing. Well I hope nobody on this post has any friend or family that was ther. This is an outrage and has to stop9/11/01 will always be remembered, to me cause it is my 30th birthday, and to see such chaos first thing when you wake up is pretty frightning!peace Rooster
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Comment #29 posted by Morgan on September 11, 2001 at 15:49:16 PT
True, Sled
I think he said something to the effect that if that were an arguable case, NORML or some such organization would have brought it before the courts by now, so it probably wasn't a legal argument.***********************************************************
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Comment #28 posted by Sled on September 11, 2001 at 15:40:24 PT
More debate - Commerce Clause
Another interesting question was when a gentleman asked how pot could be prohibited without an Amendment to the Constitution and how the use of the Commerce Clause, which has always been the govs Trojan Horse for regulating pot, could be used to outlaw an individual growing weed for personal consumption in his (or her) own home. This isn't interstate commerce......Hutchinson didn't even know what the guy was talking about. He started blubbering, incoherently and said something about they could do it for safety or something, probably. He honestly didn't know what the Commerce Clause was and is pretty much ignorant of our founding documents. Hard to believe a person can graduate law school, serve at different levels as a prosecutor, and an elected official and never know these things. How can they make laws and never know there are constraints against their powers to make such laws? Sad statement about what resides within our halls of government.Pretty clear to me, these guys don't have a clue how they got us into this mess and don't care enough to even find out.It's their rice bowl, nothing else matters to them, our rights as a free people or our Constitution.No wonder they're out of the control of, we the people.
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Comment #27 posted by Patrick on September 11, 2001 at 15:17:16 PT
Dan B.
It is my opinion that the attack targets were chosen as a message to government/pentagon and american people/new york.
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Comment #26 posted by ????? on September 11, 2001 at 15:13:04 PT
means, motive, opportunity
I've been in a state of shock all day today... it's so surreal. It feels like I'm watching a movie. I feel absolutely terrible for everyone who was killed today. Everyone here is walking around in a daze... this just does not seem real. But all the while, I've been wondering "why?" and "who?" I'm going to play detective for a minute. Here's a short list of suspects in this case:Palestinians:Means: Maybe. Motive: Revenge is a powerful motive, but this does serious damage to their cause. Opportunity: Maybe.Bin Laden:Means: Probably, due to the holy war mentality and a large personal fortune. Motive: Who knows? What does he gain out of this? Probably just a few missiles headed his way. Opportunity: Maybe.FARC:Means: Yes, thanks to large profits from the drug trade. Motive: Yes, to counterattack the U.S.-backed offensive against them in Columbia. Opportunity: Probably. Plus they have the advantage of surprise.A rogue faction of the U.S. Government bent on control:Means: Yes. Motive: Yes, to prepare the American sheep to give up the Bill of Rights for once and for all. Opportunity: Yes.Am I sinister to bring up the possibility that a branch of the U.S. Government itself could carry out such an attack against its own citizens? Perhaps. But means, motive, and opportunity are all present. And, as we are all painfully aware at this site, it's been going on for decades, although not usually with this number of people at once.The fact that no one has come forward to claim responsibility for this attack is interesting. Whoever staged it probably interested in remaining anonymous for the time being, which probably only really matters if they're not finished, or if they want the American public to think they're not finished.It's also possible that we might be looking at a conspiracy between terrorist groups. I'm sure that they share techniques, training, and intelligence among each other.
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Comment #25 posted by Dan B on September 11, 2001 at 15:10:49 PT:
Re: Lehder
this is an attack on the u.s. government, not on the american peoplePerhaps in spirit this was an attack on the U. S. government, but in fact it was indeed an attack on the American people. Take a look at what happened, Lehder: perhaps more than 20,000 Americans lost their lives in this attack. This was directly an attack on the American people, and the American people do deserve some form of retaliation, if possible. They may well be able to discern who is responsible based on the identities of those aboard the planes. I don't know. But it sure does seem stupid to get all of this attention and then not use it. What's the message? We can blow up your stuff? That's it? Regardless, I think you are right that the American government will not respond appropriately (although I am not certain you and I will agree about what might be appropriate), and I agree that this country's government has been "asking for it" for a long time. It's just too bad that thousands of innocents died because some idiot who won't even identify him or herself decided to send some kind of cryptic message. Whatever.Dan B
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Comment #24 posted by Buddha on September 11, 2001 at 14:28:10 PT
P.S.
What is illogical is to wage war on your own people. Will we become like the middle eastern countries known for killing their own people? Vote libertarian.
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Comment #23 posted by Buddha on September 11, 2001 at 14:25:48 PT
What The ::beep::
Assa Hutchinson has never smoked marijuana or done drugs. Then how the heck can he know what he is talking about? "Drug use is harmful" he says. He cannot know unless he's done it. But he claims not to have done anything. Therefore that proves he does not know, and should be extinguished as an arrogant and righteous loser.
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Comment #22 posted by mr.greengenes on September 11, 2001 at 13:32:00 PT
retarted??
"I really wish Bush wasn't in charge, I think he's retarted"Retarted? Is George pimping himself again;}
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Comment #21 posted by Lehder on September 11, 2001 at 13:27:18 PT
plane attacks
this is an attack on the u.s. government, not on the american people. there will be no biological attack to follow. we will not go to war - war against whom? the attackers will not take claim, nor have they finished. they mean to personally kill bush personally and to make other attacks. with the loss of our guise of invincibility, others will attack, and there are many who hate the u.s. government. the government will tell us that it's an attack on all of us, but it is not, and, concsiously or subconsciously, people know this.i ws just old enough to have a mature understanding of the events and emotions on november 22, 1963. everyone was in shock. everything on that day stopped, everyone sat transfixed before their b&w tv's for a solid three days. nothing else happened. i was numbed. everyone loved kennedy, his brilliant wife, his sophisticated family, his charm wit and intelligence. what happened that day was unbelievable to everyone. 'shock' is the only word; everyone was emotionally and even physically affected, like wallking out of a wreck with a banged head and heavy bruises.this is far different. i was on the city bus when it happened, but no one knew about it. soon i was in the public library. nothing seemed out of sorts. i said hello to the security guard, got directions at the info desk. on the floor below me, looking over the railing, i saw a small crowd of people looking at tv. but not being interested in sports, i went about my business. later, i landed on the tv floor by accident so thought i would look at the poetry display beside the tv and small standing crowd. then i saw the replayed pictures of the first building going down. the second had not yet collapsed. then the tv showed qa split screen with the pentagon too. someone said that camp david had also been hit, that a plane had attacked something in pittsburgh and that another was still in the air above nyc.tell me how cold hearted iam, i don't care. one must commisserate with the innocent, of course. but what can i do? i went about my business. i just did not feel the same as in 63, or even, my emotions not as intense even for the later assassinations in the 60's. other people too certainly behaved far differently from in 63 too. the library, near the federal building, was closing, and i needed to get on a bus. the buses were chuck full, i wa lucky to get on. people were behaving relatively normally, courtesies exchanged, occassional light jokes were made. call me black hearted for saying it all - this is what i saw. people wanted to get home. there was standing room only on the bus and the stop where i got on was the las for loading. the bus passed crowds of other people waiting for the next buses at all the usual stops. i stood among a crowd of girls mostly sent home from the federal building where they worked; another had been to the hospital to see here 5 wk premature baby, there to stay until wednesday. we passed building sites with construction workers still lifting steel beams and buckets of cement, people raking leaves. of course most of the talk on the bus was about the tragedy. but it was interspersed with talk of the new baby's health, whether or not the arab stores would be burned in riots, and the news of developnments of a friend of one girl busted for drugs - she was lucky to avoid prison by getting in on a treatment/testing/probation deal. one girl said 'what goes around comes around' and that the u.s. had been asking for this for years, many years. yes, they have, she said, they have and another joined. maybe you gotta be black to understand this, maybe not. i know that there are efen going to be celebratons and dances in the streets in many countries of the world. am i celebrating? no, but i understand it.i think the government will not respond appropriately to this, i think it will not learn, what ever else it may do by way of justice or retribution or finding the belligerants and rightfully? killing them - if it can find them, it will fail to appreciate what these black girls knew instinctively. it is impossible to get through to the government. neither we in the u.s. nor any other peoples in the world have been able to get through to it. there has been no response to any concerns or complaints or hardships or injustices. what the hell is to be expected from politicians like 93-yr-old strom thurmond? huh? did we elect him or did money elect him? whatever else is going to be said or done, there is a lesson here in accountability, karma and itr has to be learned from the lowliest bureaucrat to the white rascals at the top. will it? we shall see. decades of words, writing, speeches, protests, lives destroyed, sacrificed, unlived and wasted have made no impression. and this is what we have come to. it was not necessary.that's all for now. those are my immediate impressions, how i feel today, how others looked to me and what they said and how they said they feel. it is not 1963. like it or not that is what i felt saw and heard today.
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Comment #20 posted by Patrick on September 11, 2001 at 12:59:05 PT
Morgan
Thanks for the report!I especially liked the"One part that stands out in my mind was during the open question section, when Asa was asked by a teenager - "What did he feel caused the most damage to a family, a kid smoking a joint, or arresting that kid and throwing him in jail?" Asa launched into the most incomprehensible piece of politico double-speak that I have ever witnessed. Listen for it. And if anybody can explain what his answer was, I'll stick a gold star on your forehead."
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Comment #19 posted by Dan B on September 11, 2001 at 12:51:49 PT:
I agree, Dr. Russo.
About the terrorist attacks:Tom Brokaw said today, in response to these attacks, that we in America "need to take a look at the possibility of giving up some of our freedoms" for national security reasons. Whether he meant that we should think about possibly giving up our relatively easy access to transportation, or whether he really meant that he think we need to consider instituting martial law a la The Seige, such irresponsible ideas should be given careful consideration before being aired on national TV.My greatest fear, too, is that this will give the government a reason to declare martial law. The greatest potential harm to America at this point can very well be coming from our own government. I teach a creative writing class today, and we spent the whole class period talking about these attacks and their potential ramifications. I spoke a little bit about the power of symbols, but largely it was a political discussion. When I mentioned Tom Brokaw's comments, the entire class responded appropriately: with revulsion. The younger generation seems to be well aware of the potential for abuse by our government, and they are strongly opposed to it.We talked about the many reasons why someone might attack the United States in this way. Of course, we brought up Osama bin Laden, the Taliban, and other known terrorist/hate organizations. I first made it clear that we do not yet know for sure who did this (although bin Laden has threatened this kind of action for months now), and that even though there are some Islamic fundamentalists who believe in taking such terrorist actions, we should also realize that this is not a part of the Islamic faith, but a cultural phenomenon with which many (if not most) Muslims disagree. I then made a point that the United States not only put the Taliban in power, but actually sent them some $43 million last month because they got rid of some poppy fields--yet they are the ones who have been harboring bin Laden. This brought up the question of how much America's own policies may or may not be to blame for this series of atrocities.I also made sure to bring up the idea of how "free" America is, and the fact that tyranny under any system is still tyranny. I brought up the idea of "tyranny of the majority," and I explained that tyranny can occur in even the most well-intentioned political atmosphere when decisions are left up to a simple majority vote. I asked them to pretend that the majority of Americans believed that men should not grow beards and passed this belief into a law of prohibition against cutting one's beard, then suggested that the law would still be a form of tyranny even though the majority believed it to be right. We talked, then, about other types of prohibition, including the drug war. I think that most of them saw where I was coming from. I finished my comments on this issue by saying that if we are willing to look outward to condemn the tyranny that happens in other countries, like that of the Taliban in Afghanistan, then we should also pause to consider the kinds of tyranny that may be going on right here in the United States. It all ties together, I think. The reason we have terrorism is because one group wants to control another. The reason we have tyranny is because one group wants to control another. We have a right to retaliate against people who cause harm to other people, like the terrorists who plowed into the WTC and the Pentagon, and like people who terrorize their families with violence. But as our motives move out of the realm of protection and into the realm of control, we move closer to tyranny.I think they got it. I hope they did. Sometimes, we can take a horrible event like this and make something positive come of it. That was what I was trying to do in class today. I think it was fair today to deviate from the lesson plan in order to provide a different kind of education. If nothing else, they had a chance to express how they felt and what they thought, and that's an important element of learning to be creative.Dan B
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Comment #18 posted by FoM on September 11, 2001 at 12:49:54 PT
E-mail from MikeEEEEE
This morning (about 9am) I was traveling on the New Jersey Turnpike when I seen something strange. I seen what looked like the World Trade Center on fire. At first I thought it was a smoke stack, because there's a lot of factories near New York City. Upon driving further I knew something was wrong, it still looked like it was on fire. I called my family from my cell phone and asked if something was wrong with the World Trade Center. They told me 2 jets crashed into the buildings. At the client (near New York City) we watched the World Trade Center fall down. Right now I'm still in New Jersey, I can't go home because all the New York City bridges are closed. From my window here I could see the smoke, and where there was once 2 tall buildings, now there's none. I really wish Bush wasn't in charge, I think he's retarted. The news media will be preoccupied by this event for days, probably ignoring important issues to us. Peace, MikeEEEEE
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Comment #17 posted by FoM on September 11, 2001 at 12:40:11 PT
Morgan
Thank you so much!
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Comment #16 posted by Patrick on September 11, 2001 at 12:36:40 PT
Ethan
Welcome back from your conference. You are so right as usual..."It is all too easy and tempting to think of retribution on our enemies. We must ensure that we as Americans are not the victims of our own fears."
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Comment #15 posted by Morgan on September 11, 2001 at 12:27:12 PT
Report from the Debate
ALBUQUERQUE, NMAnything I have to say about my impressions of the debate last night will sound trite and inconsequential in light of this morning's events. God help us all.But anyway, here goes. Maybe this will prove to have some kind of relevance someday.I arrived early for the debate, thinking (hoping) that there would be a heavy attendence. I was right.I wandered around, checking things out. Lots of police seeming to be waiting for the big guys to show up in a roped off area in the back. Across the street in front was a small group of protestors, with signs that said things "Stop the Killing" and "The Drug War is a Farce". I ran across (busy street) to talk with them and find out what they were about. They were wearing black t-shirts with 'Friends of Justice' printed across the front. These were not your normal college-type protestors one sees at these events (though there were a few of those, Green Party members from a neighboring county) but middle-aged to retired, men and women who were from the Tulia/Amarillo area who have been out and about protesting the Drug War since the mass arrest in Tulia. Major kudos to them for making the trip out here.I went back across and sat on a park bench on the side of the building, to have a smoke and write down a few thoughts. About six police officers came over around from the back and stood a few feet from me, looking at the protestors across the street. They were ignoring me as they talked among themselves. Overheard:"What's that?""Potheads with signs. One says 'Stop the Killing'."Says what?""Stop the Killing.""Well, thats what you get if you smoke that pot."I had to smile at this bit of ignorance, which one cop noticed, who smiled back.I went in to get a seat and passed by a news crew interviewing Rep. Ron Godby, a major and vocal opponent of Gov. Johnson's ideas. He said something to the effect of if the police brought in some drug sniffing dogs that half the crowd would be arrested. I looked around at the crowd filing in, and just from appearances, saw a very balanced cross section of the American public. Young and old, suits and jeans, blue-collar, white collar, no collar, male, female, white hispanic, native. I saw one guy with dreads. What was he seeing that I didn't?The auditorium was comprised of a stage upon which were three podiums. Three big cameras were in front of the stage, set at eye-level and many smaller ones up in the balcony. Seats were arranged in a semi-circle around the stage, two levels, plus some folding seats were set up in the middle. I counted the seats (ten across, five deep, etc.) and figured the place could hold about five hundred people. And it was standing room only. Many people were sitting in the aisles.At 4:00pm, when the procedings were scheduled to start, people were still milling about, a few were getting their picture taken with Gov. Johnson up near the stage. They finally started around ten after, doing sound checks, warning the audience not to make any noise during the broadcast, and got seriously into it around 4:20. (I kid you not.) We sat and listened to a pre-recorded lead in of different people talking about their experiences with the War on Drugs. Then the debate started. I won't go into detail about who said what, you'll be able to listen to it on PBS (Oct. 11?)But throughout the debate, I could tell that the crowd was heavily behind Gov. Johnson at a percentage of about 20 to 1. (As was I...sorry, there goes my journalistic objectivity.) Even though we were warned not to make any noise such as applause, that didn't last too long. Especially when Asa Hutchison was shoveling the usual government polititalk. He was good, I have to give him that. Right suit, right hair, right voice, 'right' words. But the audience seemed to be very 'hip' to this kind of government talk, and were having none of it. What started out as barely controlled laughter and snorts to some of the statements he made grew into outright shouts of 'Not True!' and 'Liar!' and an actual chorus of Boos when Asa challenged Gary that he didn't even have the New Mexico legislature behind him (insinuating that the people were not behind this). I hope our boos in response made it clear that we don't feel that the Legislature was an accurate representation of our feelings. (As it ideally should be.)One part that stands out in my mind was during the open question section, when Asa was asked by a teenager – "What did he feel caused the most damage to a family, a kid smoking a joint, or arresting that kid and throwing him in jail?" Asa launched into the most incomprehensable piece of politico double-speak that I have ever witnessed. Listen for it. And if anybody can explain what his answer was, I'll stick a gold star on your forehead.All in all, it was a very entertaining evening. After experiencing about forty years of staid, controlled political 'debates', this was breath of fresh air. I think what I actually witnessed was the Drug war gravy train coming off the tracks.Too bad it will be forgotten under the weight of today's earth-shaking tragedy.Morgan***********************************************************
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Comment #14 posted by Robbie on September 11, 2001 at 12:23:39 PT
Waytago Sled!!!
I'm surprised somebody didn't warn Hutch off of this. Pro drug-war debaters never win, and they shouldve known Hutch wouldnt be up to it.I'm eager to see it. Do you think we'll ever see an unedited version?***My hopes and prayers to all those affected by today's events. The tragedy notwithstanding, the Drug War must come to an end. There are more important things***
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Comment #13 posted by Ethan Russo, MD on September 11, 2001 at 12:22:52 PT:
Far Away, But Close to Heart
It is difficult for everyone in this country to concentrate on anything but the tragedy, worry about friends and relatives, and pondering of its meaning.I am here safe in Montana, but flew out of National Airport just 48 hours ago-- what if?Our country will persevere. We will mourn the dead, and our lost innocence. My greatest worry is that these events will allow the declaration of martial law, and further erosion in our civil liberties. That cannot be permitted. The best result for the terrorists would be a paralysis of America, and a war against its own people. That is another reason that the War on Drugs must end right now. We need to have confidence in common goals, and appreciation for law enforcement and the military without the fear that they are our adversaries.It is all too easy and tempting to think of retribution on our enemies. We must ensure that we as Americans are not the victims of our own fears.
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Comment #12 posted by Patrick on September 11, 2001 at 12:05:13 PT
FoM
No problem :)I still find it spooky or maybe curious that is.
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Comment #11 posted by Patrick on September 11, 2001 at 12:00:37 PT
Sled
Thank you so much for the latest on the debate. I will be anxious to compare raw footage to CSPAN version?
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Comment #10 posted by FoM on September 11, 2001 at 11:58:31 PT
Got it
Thanks Patrick, Im really dense sometimes.
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Comment #9 posted by Patrick on September 11, 2001 at 11:57:01 PT
The date.
is 911. 911 = emergency
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Comment #8 posted by Sled on September 11, 2001 at 11:56:00 PT
The Debate - The Rest Of The Story
The Albuquerque Journal's story is fairly accurate of what actually took place. A few misses, but close.....Here's my take of the event*****************I was there. Hutch stuck with the usual line & the Gov. wiped thefloor with him. The crowd was overwhelmingly friendly toward the Gov.& reform. Drew strong applause for the Gov. & boos for Hutch. Anoccasional very light applause for Hutch. Only his agents & croniessupported him at all & there were only a few of them present.If anything, Hutch got laughed at more than anything & it wasn't allreformers there, by any means. A lot of gray heads in the audience &they supported reform.Hutch stuck to the latest buzzwords, with "traffickers" his favorite.No doubt, he watched the movie & that's all that he came away with.IMHO, he didn't take the Gov. seriously prior to debate, didn't have aclue what the Gov.'s positions were, thought everyone there would befor his position, walked into a minefield, & stepped on every mine insight.He was flustered, completely bereft of knowledge of this subject,became red-faced a number of times, & blew the whole thing, so whatelse is new. The guy is way out of his league.I made a tape of the whole thing, even though they requested thateveryone turn of any recorders. I'm sure I'm not alone. With all thevideo cameras in evidence, I think a a clandestine copy should beavailable shortly.C-Span taped it for later broadcast & if they don't censor it heavily,you'll be very pleasantly surprised.Hutch got his ass kicked & then some.Live from the front.....Sled
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Comment #7 posted by FoM on September 11, 2001 at 11:50:21 PT
Patrick
Please hang around here. I know we could lose communication. We are filling water jugs in case we lose power. I was out with my son right after the North Ridge Quake and it's best to have certain necessities around. My husband has to take a load of steel into Chicago loading tomorrow. I'm not sure if he will take it. A lot depends on where this all goes. I'm sorry but the date doesn't ring a bell. I'm terrible about remembering dates.
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Comment #6 posted by Patrick on September 11, 2001 at 11:45:31 PT
FoM you are very welcome.
Is it just me? or is there something spooky about today's date being 9/11? FoM, I hope you don't mind but as long as the Net and cable TV remains up? I'll be hangin around with you to hear some goodnews here.
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Comment #5 posted by FoM on September 11, 2001 at 11:39:15 PT
Thanks Patrick
This might sound weird but today is unreal to begin with. As we watch the news evolving I think the drug war will be over real soon. The reason why is if we go to war things change and there won't be time or resources to continue the drug war. I could be wrong but I might be right. I seem to be saying that a lot lately.
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Comment #4 posted by Patrick on September 11, 2001 at 11:29:39 PT
Shock
This is truly a sad day in America. Following is the latest link to the world reaction:http://cnn.com/2001/WORLD/europe/09/11/trade.centre.reaction
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Comment #3 posted by FoM on September 11, 2001 at 11:29:15 PT
Photos
http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/sns-worldtrade-pix1.photogallery?coll=chi%2Dnewsbreaking%2Dhed
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Comment #2 posted by FoM on September 11, 2001 at 11:21:23 PT
Robbie
I hope everyone is ok. I went to check my email and it is messing up. I'm trying to find out information on my son's father who lives and works in Manhattan. So far I haven't heard anything from his Mother. I'm going to reboot and see if that clears up my email problem. We will now go to war. This I'm afraid is just the beginning. God help us all. Here is current news on this horrible event. Please feel free to use C News to talk. This is what it does so well.I'm only doing news on Governor Johnson's debate. I will let the rest go because there will be no hearings on Walters nomination. If an article on Colin Powell returning from Colombia comes up I will post it.http://www.newsindex.com/cgi-bin/process.cgi?query=world+trade+center+pentagon+terrorist+pittsburgh+airline"
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Comment #1 posted by Robbie on September 11, 2001 at 11:12:44 PT
New York
I hope everyone in the C News family is alright.Its a hellish day.
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