cannabisnews.com: No Martyrs No Martyrs Posted by FoM on September 08, 2001 at 10:12:51 PT Editorial Source: Detroit Free Press There will be those ready to make marijuana martyrs of the two men who were killed this week in a standoff with authorities at the property known as Rainbow Farm in southern lower Michigan. They will say the pair died for what they believed.It's the kind of tale that can quickly escalate into legend as it flies around the Internet. Plenty of people still cling to discredited beliefs that the government was somehow responsible for the awful end of the 1993 standoff at Waco, Texas, in which 80 people died. But Rainbow Farm appears to be more a matter of two people who were trapped outside the law and out of options. While the investigation is not yet complete, evidence indicates this was a situation in which law enforcement acted with considerable restraint until faced with life-or-death choices.The two men died not for anything they believed but because of what they did. They weren't arguing principles of freedom or debating marijuana laws when they raised their rifles in the direction of armed law officers who had been trying to negotiate a surrender. It's doubtful the FBI agents or state police who fired the fatal shots were thinking about anything much larger than self-preservation. But it's likely, given their history, that the two men who were killed had a definite idea of the outcome their actions would produce. They were inviting a reaction.The Cass County Prosecutor's Office, which had been overseeing an investigation of drug use at the farm since 1998, owes the public a full report on the standoff and deaths. While there's no indication of malfeasance or misfeasance by Prosecutor Scott Teter, the credibility of such a report would be enhanced by the use of an independent investigator, perhaps a private attorney or a retired judge.More than two years ago, when undercover police began recording open drug use during marijuana festivals at the farm, owner Grover Thomas Cosslin wrote to Teter that he was "prepared to die on this land" if authorities tried to seize it because of the numerous drug violations there.In the end, it appeared that he forced the law to accommodate him.Note: Two men killed; their own actions appear to blame.Source: Detroit Free Press (MI)Published: September 8, 2001Copyright: 2001 Detroit Free PressWebsite: http://www.freep.com/Contact: letters freepress.comRelated Articles & Web Sites:Rainbow Farm Campgroundhttp://www.rainbowfarmcampground.com/Tom Crosslin & Rolland Rohm Memorialhttp://www.freedomtoexhale.com/rb.htmFond Memories of Rainbowhttp://cannabisnews.com/news/thread10858.shtmlRainbow Farms Standoff Sparks Talk, Opinionshttp://cannabisnews.com/news/thread10857.shtmlCannabis News Articles - Tom Crosslinhttp://cannabisnews.com/thcgi/search.pl?K=Crosslin Home Comment Email Register Recent Comments Help Comment #26 posted by Hannibal Heyes on September 09, 2001 at 02:17:44 PT Dear New Mexican I so wish you were correct. But I fear you are not. This story did not make national news, and only those that follow this type of story even know about it. I have a very bad feeling that we are seeing the beginnings of the renewal of "the great crusade" as Ashcroft calls it. The people of this country have been conditioned to this. An example is the burning alive of a "stockpiler of weapons" (3 rifles and 3 handguns?) in So. Cali last week. 'Dozed his house before the embers were done glowing, and not only is there no outrage, the whole story has run it's "media cycle". To close, I thought the shooting of the woman and her infant in Peru would cause a national debate but what did us "citizens" get treated to ALL SUMMER? Gary Condit, whose guilt or innocence might affect a grand total of what, 1% of all Americans? Batten down your hatches, and tighten your shoelaces. It's gonna be a grind for awhile. Ask Marvin Chavez. [ Post Comment ] Comment #25 posted by meagain on September 09, 2001 at 02:03:51 PT Whats happening? Lehder hit it on the money. They have no problem pointing cameras at society everywhere you go almost there are cameras (banks, gas stations, redlights, schools, workplaces etc.) Well why wasn't the cameras on them ? They didn't want any CREDITABLE WITNESSES did they ??? ...also to make another point remember Rodney King??? Ask yourself what happened when that happened and what happened when this happened ??? what is different what is the same? This is insane. [ Post Comment ] Comment #24 posted by freedom fighter on September 08, 2001 at 23:59:52 PT Hi FoM, I checked the article and since it was an editoral article with no names to it. I had to browse around and came upon to a page where they tell who is what.. These email addresses represent editoral writers and the editor. ff [ Post Comment ] Comment #23 posted by xxdr_zombiexx on September 08, 2001 at 16:30:15 PT: ALCOHOLIC AGENTS Remember the DEA agent a couple years ago the blew his partner way on the ride home from a party. He was so drunk they had to drive hime home : took his keys, but not his gun. Or the recent alcoholic cop that plowed into the crowd, drunk on his way TO work? That seems to have been a scandal suppressed.Good call on the alcoholic metaphor [ Post Comment ] Comment #22 posted by FoM on September 08, 2001 at 15:10:08 PT freedom fighter The name is anon. It is up to us to figure out who. I sure have my suspicions. [ Post Comment ] Comment #21 posted by freedom fighter on September 08, 2001 at 15:05:14 PT Who is the author of the article? mailto:arrigo freepress.commailto:coleman freepress.commailto:dzwonk freepress.commailto:gerritt freepress.commailto:mccraith freepress.commailto:miller freepress.com mailto:readrep freepress.comhttp://www.freep.com/help/email.htmff [ Post Comment ] Comment #20 posted by mayan on September 08, 2001 at 15:01:38 PT Motor City Madness Yeah, I believe everything printed by the Motor City Corporate Press! People are beginning to realize the effects of special interests on the media. This article might as well have the words "Corporate Propaganda" stamped on it! [ Post Comment ] Comment #19 posted by kaptinemo on September 08, 2001 at 15:01:34 PT: The "Lessons of Viet Nam" Lehder's demand for photographic proof is echoed by yours truly. But it will be years before we get them. And when we do, they'll be heavily censored.Many in the military honestly believed that the war in Viet Nam was lost on the home front due to unrestricted press access to the field. And the horrifying images sent back every night, at dinner time.So, to ensure that they get the upper hand, for the 'safety and well-being' of the reporters, they are herded into pools far from the 'action', threatened with legal actions if they stray, and fed the Party Line.This is one of the "Lessons of Viet Nam". But now, the government is taking it one step further; it is engaging in the very same treatment designed to confuse the enemy by providing minimal or misleading information to the supposedly 'free press'...by treating the American public as if it were the enemy. Makes it that much easier to cover up domestic My Lai's that way...Which, mark my words, is precisely what's happening here. Why else the plethora of articles smearing Crosslin's reputation...when his nearest neighbors had made no complaints about him? [ Post Comment ] Comment #18 posted by Rock-N-Roller on September 08, 2001 at 14:49:57 PT Not Surprised I expected to see this kind of stuff. Is it a ploy to help get the issue out of the minds of the Larry Luchbox population? Hmmmmmmm. I see pattern here. First make the victims look like the bad guys, then make it look like its no big deal, "the police had to do what was nessesary", then back to life as usual, all is forgivin and forgotten about. Untill the next tragic event. Then it starts all over, as in Ruby Ridge, Waco, Rainbow Farms, Miami, and the many more few will ever know about.Do your part to help educate this crowd. Do not let this get sweept under the table. These men gave the ultimate sacrifice, and should be addressed as so. Educate the masses, educate them now. WE can and will make a differece this time. [ Post Comment ] Comment #17 posted by Lehder on September 08, 2001 at 14:35:19 PT Who Points Guns? They weren't arguing principles of freedom or debating marijuana laws when they raised their rifles in the direction of armed law officers who had been trying to negotiate a surrender.But there are no pictures. And I want to know: Who was pointing guns? Well, who got shot? You had more than a hundred G-men surrounding two custodians of Rainbow Farm. Hundreds of guns. We have your words: "Police said...", "Authorities said....", "The FBI reports...." Where are the pictures? Did you forget cameras? Did you forget to invite the photographers? You claim, "They raised their rifles...."Show me. I want a picture. You know, like this:http://members.tripod.com/~PrinFla/Elian.htmlYou feds are exactly like alcoholics: always in denial. Always an excuse: "We had to uphold justice...", "They were child molesters...", "They had guns...". You get all worked up over some trifle. You get drunk. You go out with your guns and the result is always the same: Death. Destruction. Hate. Lawlessness. You say this is not like Ruby Ridge. Not like Waco. Not like Elian Gonzales. What a lame story! Over and over you do the same thing. You are out of control. You are out of your minds. Like an alcoholic you can't remember where you have been or what you have done. How do we deal with a drunk driver who kills a carload of innocents on the road? We take the car away. We force him into treatment. How should we deal with your disease?You are right though when you say, "They weren't...debating marijuana laws...." So right. There has never been a debate. [ Post Comment ] Comment #16 posted by FoM on September 08, 2001 at 14:30:27 PT New Mexican I was talking to my husband earlier today that doing news like I do I often wonder how any drug type news can keep going. I somethmes think what will be the next thing coming up to focus on. I also have thought that some event will cause the laws to change and it very well could be this one. For good or bad the legalization movement has been affected forever. [ Post Comment ] Comment #15 posted by pissedonandoff on September 08, 2001 at 14:29:46 PT: the power of the internet I was wanting to reply to something Morgan said in comment 8 and the power of the internet to communicate. A lot of comments do not say much but the stuff that is good has a chance to rise to the surface. Once there it is copied and repeated. I first saw the word Warshington at this site and the reference to the drug war as "the war against peace." I read "the land of the free is now the land of pee" and I use that at other sites. They could have picked these guys up in town but instead bring 120 Battle ready LEO's to flush them out. He referred to this as using a backhoe when all they needed was a teaspoon. It could have been said they used a sledgehammer instead of a flyswatter. Anyway the best ideas will surface and get repeated. The whole thing about Rainbow farms was that that marijuana should have been legalized and the whole thing should never have happenned because marijuana should be legal. And not just because we want it to be but because of our constitutional rights and the concept of life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. If you watch http://www.pot-tv.com Richard Cowan refers to something called "harm reduction." Now we all know that 20 million people could smoke all the marijuana they want from now until the next election and no one would die from it. Now two people are dead because of the laws. The laws are worse than the substance. If 50 million people grew and smoked MJ, so what. There would be no organized crime or black market or bribed law officers. Our courts could hear real crimes against the state. there is a murder of three people that has taken 2 years to get to trail here and that is not unusual. The 50 million people would not die from it and a lot of people that drink may give up the hangovers and the real dangers of alcohol. It could save billions that could be used for the betterment of society. No matter how you reason the thought of harm reduction, you have to see that the the laws are causing more harm than the substance itself.But there are bigger issues to be concerned about. The media for one. Look at all the changes taking place in the world concerning the 500 billion drug trade. How could anyone be so insane at this date to realize you cannot legislate it out of existance? How could you not see that drug abuse is a health issue and not a matter for the criminal justice department? And with MJ use is not abuse. I never here of the moviestars checking in for treatment of marajuana abuse. You have to look at the dark side of why out of one hundred senators they all seem to agree to keep fighting the war on peace. I did not know that 100 people could agree on anything. What is the power that holds them to such a stupid path? Why hasn't one Senator come out and said " I am following closely the developments in Europe, Australia, and Canada, Columbia, Mexico, and Jamaica and hope to introduce some legislation that is more pragmatic and that will reduce the cost of government and free up money for all the citizens of the country that need help with their chemical addictions and cannot afford it." Not one senator out of how many that have served over the last 30 years.We all should be very concerned. Some company like Wal-mart should carry a line of freedom tee shirts. I would like one that says "Vote all incumbents out." A few million of those walking around would shake up their bubbly champagne world. [ Post Comment ] Comment #14 posted by E. Johnson on September 08, 2001 at 14:28:56 PT If reporters are reading -- then please READ THIS I also have noticed that reporters must be reading cannabisnews, cross checking our posts that complain of false info coming from the prohibition industry shills.Oh if they are reading, then here is a message for them:IT IS PHYSICALLY IMPOSSIBLE FOR THE AVERAGE POTENCY OF MARIJUANA USED RECREATIONALLY TO HAVE INCREASED IN POTENCY BY TWENTY TIMES SINCE THE HIPPIE DAYS.That story is not merely untrue, but literally physically impossible.And any news organization that repeats this story will some day be leaughed at for the exrteme gullibility they exhibited during the Drug War to ONDCP propaganda.What is so darned hard about asking some scientists with experience in cannabinoid research and cannabinoid plant biology a few simple questions about marijuana potency?These people do exist now. They work at institutes and universities that have telephone service and the Internet.What is so darned hard about calling cannabis cafe owners in the Netherlands and asking them what the average potency of their best weed is, and what the potency of mediocre weed is?Why don't you journalists do this simple bit of research that would maybe take a few hours but would be worth it in terms of accuracy, which presumably still has some intrisic value in the mission of informing the public?Try it.Nobody else has done it -- so the first one of you that does it has a REAL SCOOP on the others. [ Post Comment ] Comment #13 posted by New Mexican on September 08, 2001 at 14:16:41 PT This had to happen, for anything to change... Everyday, I go to Cannabis News looking for that one article that will tell me the war on cannabis (primarily) is over. For two years since finding C-News, I keep thinking that one day, an event so big, so tragic, so inhumane, will trigger the epiphany that it takes to create change. Well, that article finally arrived, and the murder of 'Tommy and Rollie' by the FBI and the Michigan State Police is it! As an astrologer, I did Toms chart and some of you may find this interesting: Tom was killed on the full moon and was born on the full moon! This was his purpose on earth: to end the war on cannabis and the people of the earth! Well done Tom and Rollie! If we are here for a purpose, and obviously we are, then what higher calling would there be but to free the weed and humanity? If we all died in this way, we would leave the world a better place and our vision for humanity would live on as has the beleifs of Jesus, Buddha, Allah, Krishna, Lennon, MLK, JFK and so many other martyrs who have died for their beliefs and your right to pursue happiness. THE WAR ON SOME DRUGS IS OVER, and all it was, was the continuation of the Viet Nam War but on Americans Citizens. Did you really think that they would give up their addiction to greed, racism, murder, and your tax funded military toys. The war on drugs is the price we paid for our militarys' forced exit from Viet Nam! (I'm not the first to state this) Someone decided: 'Hey, lets declare war on the counter-culture and pot smoking anti-war protesters. Lets kill em all! Agent Orange worked well on our own guys, maybe Monsanto will use Round-up on Columbians and well create a deadly virus, so the American people will welcome their homes and neighborhoods being sprayed with more deadly anti-viral toxins (Nile river). Where's that comet when you need it? (May, 2003). Anyway, this event will be discussed at length for years to come, with the truth coming out to savage the USA and the FBI. Guaranteed! [ Post Comment ] Comment #12 posted by Silent_Observer on September 08, 2001 at 14:07:40 PT Tired..what have they not given you to vote for? Did you know ALL the candidates in the Presidential election? Did you know what the Natural Law Party's platform was? Did you listen to Harry Browne debate?"They" don't owe us anything to vote for, and "they" will make us believe that the only two candidates that mattered were Al Gore and George W Bush. If you're serious about this, find out all about your local elections - all the parties, what they stand for. Then vote your conscience - whether or not you think they'll win. [ Post Comment ] Comment #11 posted by Jose Melendez on September 08, 2001 at 13:16:17 PT: Morgan is right I also have noticed that reporters must be reading cannabisnews, cross checking our posts that complain of false info coming from the prohibition industry shills.Good thing we are right... arrest prohibition [ Post Comment ] Comment #10 posted by Gomer Pyle on September 08, 2001 at 12:59:41 PT Rainbow Farm Well Y'all can do as you wish, If you do not own a gun you'd best be buying one. Our government wants our guns. The mis-take these two believers in Marijuana Legalization made was they went about things in the wrong way. First & fore-most; YOU DO NOT POINT GUNS AT LAW ENFORCEMENT!!!!Now that we have that understood, next; WE DO NOT POINT GUNS AT LAW ENFORCEMENT!!!We need elected officials who, like us want legalization, & not just Medical use, but responsible Adult Recreational use.I think the way to go about this is the ballot box. [ Post Comment ] Comment #9 posted by FoM on September 08, 2001 at 12:52:58 PT Morgan You're right. I have received enough e mail to agree with you. PS: I need to say thank you for the news articles that have been sent in by different folks. Soon I'll be posting different news again but for at least a little while this tragedy probably will be staying in the forefront. I was trying to think if this is the first tragedy of it's kind and I think it is. They died for their beliefs in freedom. I love the word freedom. [ Post Comment ] Comment #8 posted by Morgan on September 08, 2001 at 12:30:51 PT Someone's been reading this page There is a law of physics that states that every action has an oppisite and equal reaction.I don't think I'm alone in thinking that I'm seeing a lot more stories, editorials and such from the main stream press vilifying Tom and Rollie for what they did.Are these stories written in reaction to other stories in the main stream media that question what the FBI did?Maybe a few, but the barrage-like re-action of these government friendly pieces indicates to me that they are firing at a large target.If anybody thinks that just posting on this board or others like it isn't doing much, think again.The growing size of this offensive is scaring the crap out of them.************************************************************ [ Post Comment ] Comment #7 posted by Tired on September 08, 2001 at 12:30:35 PT I have authority "issues" I would much rather vote than shoot.....but they won't give us anything good to vote at.....it is becoming more abundantly clear why they take your guns when they find your pot....next they'll be taking your guns when they find your vote....I can't find any pot....and I am...............(yours truly),....."Tired" [ Post Comment ] Comment #6 posted by xxdr_zombiexx on September 08, 2001 at 12:21:32 PT: P.S. Has the DFP been getting any e-mail about this incident? Any of it from outside the US?Ill bet they have.It's a shot heard 'round the world.And thanks to the dear ol' internet, ALL politics are more local than ever. [ Post Comment ] Comment #5 posted by xxrdzombiexx on September 08, 2001 at 12:16:03 PT: Martyrs for MORE than "weed" CONTEXT, Folks....CONTEXT.How out of proportion was the Law Enforcement response to the seriousness of the particular crime? All those cops and FBI agents were clearly unnecessary for 2 hippies with a couple of .22 rifles and no food.There is 34 acres and I am glad to see it is being left with family.What we are left with is a modern lynching, essentially.There have got to be a lot of people in the west who feel pretty strongly about keeping land they beileve to be "theirs". And this event should be put to good use for 2nd Amendment activists because of the way the presence of any sort of firearm in a home with cannabis (druuugs)found in it requires the whole issue to become a felony.The bottom line though will remain, despite what Mr. Crosslin should have done, or could have done: If cannabis was not illegal and the focus of such outlandish demonization, we would not be having this conversation. [ Post Comment ] Comment #4 posted by E. Johnson on September 08, 2001 at 11:39:50 PT Dear editors Dear editors,It's certainly wrong to point a gun at anyone. It certainly is aninvitation to be shot yourself. But another story in the news this week regarding police shootingsconcerns revelations in Miami. A group of police doing drug enforcementwork is under indictment for shooting suspects in cold blood and thenplanting weapons on them to make it appear as if the officers shot inself defense. This type of behavior has also been revealed among membersof law enforcement in Los Angeles.How can we be sure that ten years down the road, some repentant lawenforcement officer won't be confessing that the Rainbow Farm shootingswere deliberate and that the officers conspired to lie about it, as wenow know happened in Miami and LA?What is it that is breaking the sacred bond of trust between the publicand the brave individuals whom we have hired to protect our safety?The real problem here is the Drug War. We are asking too much of lawenforcement officers in this war. We are asking them to become theenforcers of government intrusion into private morality. That's aconfusing and stressful place for the police to be. It's a confusing andstressful place for our whole society to be.Notice how confused and stressed we all feel now? I rest my case. [ Post Comment ] Comment #3 posted by Patrick on September 08, 2001 at 11:08:24 PT Detroit Free Proganda Press Oh yeah, believe that every ounce of information provided the greed mongers who sent the cops out to his property in the first place. The reporter that wrote this article has done nothing more than report his own biased opinion. Well you got one thing right, these men will become legends! [ Post Comment ] Comment #2 posted by lookinside on September 08, 2001 at 11:00:05 PT: a letter dear sirs, "It's the kind of tale that can quickly escalate intolegend as it flies around the Internet. Plenty of peoplestill cling to discredited beliefs that the government wassomehow responsible for the awful end of the 1993 standoffat Waco, Texas, in which 80 people died" Just because they say it doesn't make it so. No oneoutside the government has made that statement.The chances of a truly independent investigation of theRainbow Farms incident are remote. The government has beenchurning out one article after another, demonizing Crosslinand Rohm.These men were surrounded, invaded, and murdered. The FBIwill never reveal what really went on at Rainbow Farms.Shame on you for printing such drivel. Frank L. Cowsert Jr. "lookinside excite.com" [ Post Comment ] Comment #1 posted by Cannabis Dave on September 08, 2001 at 10:50:05 PT They were classic "martyrs"!! They decided to die for what they believed in, and that's exactly what a "martyr" does. They believed that their constitutional rights were being violated, and they were willing to die defending those rights. Nobody was getting hurt and the neighbors didn't complain, so violence was not needed. The boy wasn't being abused, indeed it seems as though he had a wonderful life there, so he shouldn't of been abducted by government goons - that was going too far. I'm sure the boy will be well mentally now that his father and God-father were murdered by the same government that abducted him first. Perhaps they abducted him because they planned on the violent ending? Those two men were classic martyrs, and they are both heroes who gave their lives for what they believed in. Ultimately it was about the laws against cannabis hemp that caused the showdown which resulted in their tragic deaths. Now their son won't have a father and god-father for guidance, and he will have to live the rest of his life knowing the government murdered them for their beleifs. Our prayers are with him. [ Post Comment ] Post Comment