cannabisnews.com: Martyers or Menaces? Martyers or Menaces? Posted by FoM on September 05, 2001 at 14:47:51 PT By Jim Dalgleish, H-P City Editor Source: Herald-Palladium To many, Tom Crosslin and Rollie Rohm paid an ultimate and just price for drawing guns on law enforcement agents. But to those fighting against America's drug laws, the two may have died as martyrs."This is kind of like the shot heard around the world," said Gary Storck, a medical marijuana user in Madison, Wis. In a phone interview, the activist said he hopes the news will "light a fire under the people" to legalize marijuana in Michigan "so things like this don't happen again." The Herald-Palladium already has received letters to the editor from as far away as Florida and California challenging America's drug laws and questioning authorities about the deaths. Storck was among the letter writers.Crosslin, owner of Rainbow Farm near Vandalia, was shot dead Monday in a standoff with authorities. Rohm, Crosslin's roommate, was shot dead Tuesday morning. The second death ended a four-day standoff.Police had gone to the complex after Crosslin failed to appear for a court hearing Friday on charges stemming from a May drug raid.Though authorities were not releasing many details about the shootings, police said the actions of Crosslin and Rohm left them little choice.Michigan State Police Lt. Mike Risko said Rohm was repeatedly ordered to put down his gun."In each occasion both subjects pointed firearms at officers, and I don't know what else you would have officers do," Risko said.Rainbow Farm for a long time has hosted music festivals called Hemp Fest and RoachRoast, and its Web site states the complex "supports the medical, spiritual and responsible recreational use of marijuana for a more sane and compassionate America."Storck, 46, said he has long known about Rainbow Farm and felt disappointed having never seen it. Friends have told him stories about how much they enjoyed the activities there.Thanks to the Internet, Storck said, news of the deaths has traveled quickly in the "cannabis community.""There is a very somber mood out there. ... These were good people," Storck said.Brothers Darren and Lloyd Daniel, who live less than a mile south of the Rainbow Farm complex, wore their "Hemp Aid 2000" T-shirts as they stood outside their home Tuesday afternoon. The shirts carried a message endorsing the "Personal Responsibility Amendment," a failed effort last year to decriminalize marijuana through Michigan's Constitution.A drawing on the shirt showed a house with a welcome mat reading "marijuana welcome."The California natives, who said they had never been at Rainbow Farm, said the prosecution of Crosslin and Rohm typifies Cass County's intolerance."I've got friends here getting busted with marijuana seeds and stems," Lloyd said.The two placed direct blame for the shootings on Cass County Prosecutor Scott Teter. They put up a sign along their White Temple Road home that read: "How does it feel to have innocent blood on your hands Teeter".Friends and family of Crosslin and Rohm continued to gather Tuesday afternoon in a vacant lot at Michigan 60 and White Temple Road, about a mile north of the complex. The mood was a mix of anger with authorities, sadness over the deaths and weariness with the media frenzy.Several escaped the sun under a canopy while handmade signs along M-60 lambasted Teter and police."That was private property. Never once did a neighbor complain," said Dayved Watts of Elkhart. Watts said he built many of the buildings for Crosslin.Watts said the people who attended Rainbow Farm events merely believed in "their constitutional right to pursue happiness ... their right to gather in a peaceful manner."Teter's office was referring all comment on the case to the FBI. FBI spokeswoman Dawn Crenney could not be reached for comment.Source: Herald-Palladium, The (MI)Author: Jim Dalgleish, H-P City EditorPublished: Wednesday, September 05, 2001Copyright: 2001 The Herald-PalladiumContact: letters heraldpalladium.comWebsite: http://www.heraldpalladium.com/Related Articles & Web Sites:Is My Medicine Legal Yet?: http://www.immly.org/Drug Policy Forum of Wisconsin: http://www.drugsense.org/dpfwi/Personal Responsibility Amendment Initiative: http://www.prayes.com/The Rainbow Farm Campground: http://www.rainbowfarmcampground.com/ Police Criticized for Standoff's End: http://cannabisnews.com/news/thread10830.shtmlCrosslins Passions Led To Downfall: http://cannabisnews.com/news/thread10828.shtmlCannabisNews Articles - Tom Crosslin: http://cannabisnews.com/thcgi/search.pl?K=Crosslin END SNIP --> Snipped Home Comment Email Register Recent Comments Help Comment #46 posted by Sarah Dolezal on September 23, 2001 at 23:43:41 PT: Donaions to help Tom and Rollie's legal Fund Donations to help Tom and Rollies families pay for the lawyers that have lined up to fight this injustice are to be sent to: Rainbow Farm P.O. Box 220 Vandalia, MI 49095Checks or Money orders are prefered. For more info: http://www.rainbowfarmcampground.com Link to rainbow farm site [ Post Comment ] Comment #45 posted by Sarah Dolezal on September 23, 2001 at 23:33:21 PT: Error in thinking In response to Tom and Rollie actually pointing guns at police... You weren't there. You don't know. If you think the cops were telling the pres anything, you are mistaken. An example would be... Tom was shot and killed 5 hours or so before even his family found out. The press did an on-location report when they found out. Second response.. It was Hemp Aid. Not Hemp FestSarah Dolezal (snm2001 webtv.net) [ Post Comment ] Comment #44 posted by mr.greengenes on September 07, 2001 at 06:41:52 PT Voting Libertarian I agree. Voting Libertarian is the way to go. They are the only party that that has a set platform based on solid principles that don't change with shifting public opinion. Last I heard, they don't even accept matching federal campaign funds on the principle that it is wrong to forcibly take money from people(through taxes)to give to politicans, or any other reason for that matter. I know there will be those that will say voting Libertarian is a wasted vote because they'll never get elected, but I don't think so for at least two reasons. If voting republicrat, your just voting for the same old-same old, so your vote dosen't really count anyway, except that your horse might come in first, and since their both broken down nags that eat from the same trough, what real difference does it make. At least when you're voting Libertarian, you know you voted your concience, and on your principles, instead of the lessor of two evils. To me, that's not a wasted vote. Another reason is that even if a Libertarian is never elected, your vote can still make a difference. All it takes is enough people fed up with the system to start voting Libertarian to start making the dempublicans nervous enough to start changing their positions on key issues, which is the ultimate goal. Voting Libertarian could be the most influential public opinion poll there is. As for me, from now on I will vote straight Libertarian even if there is no Lib candidate for the office. [ Post Comment ] Comment #43 posted by tdm on September 07, 2001 at 06:25:39 PT: reach out to Rohm's son -- crosspost After listening to Richard Cowan's analysis (link below), I was struck by his comments regarding Rohm's son. This boy is now without a family. I read that his grandparents were going to try to gain custody, but that does little to ease the pain he must be feeling right now. Imagining what he must be going through at age 13 is painful. My father died when I was 16, but that seems to pale in comparison.My thought -- we need to let this boy know he has an extended family of thousands, if not millions. Two ideas came to me: 1) If we can find out how to reach him, we can all send him a word of encouragement in a card or letter, letting him know he is far, far from alone in this world. 2) We can show the world the love and compassion in each of us by establishing a trust fund for his ongoing care, wherever he may end up. Imagine if everyone who ever inhaled sent just $1. A $70,000,000 trust fund might just do the job. I'm sure that's not exactly what would happen, but we can sure give it our best shot.I'd like to hear comments. And anyone who has the expertise to set up such a fund, please contact me and I will do everything within my power to help see that it happens. Likewise, if you know how we can get cards and letters to the boy (anyone know his name?), please post the information here. We can then spread the word to the entire online community. Richard Cowan - POT-TV [ Post Comment ] Comment #42 posted by Silent_Observer on September 07, 2001 at 05:24:28 PT The Legal Weapon I couldn't agree more with Sage. In the way of legtimizing myself, let me say that i DID vote for Harry Browne - a "wasted vote"?. I think not.Yes, its important to protest, call on Gary Johnson and Jesse Ventura to protest for us. All these things matter, but not without one crucial element. That is, for us - you and I - to use our legally granted weapon, and use it ruthlessly and honestly.It makes me sick to listen to talk about a "wasted vote". The only wasted vote is one that comes about as a result of compromising one's ideals.There is one thing that ALL politicans fear - not being re-elected. How obvious is it to just about everybody that all this legal maneuvering by Gary Condit pertains to running again and winning? Why then, are so many people inclined to "play" the elections like a horse race and back a "winning" candidate? This is a good way to ensure that we ALL lose.Local and state elections should be coming up soon. Why not start there? Let every ONE of us vote Libertarian, and help remake this country in the image of what it was intended to be. [ Post Comment ] Comment #41 posted by military officer guy on September 06, 2001 at 19:18:22 PT http://www.lp.org if you've never heard of the libertarian party, here's they web page, or you can view your state party by adding the two letter abbreviation after the lphttp://www.lp.orgex: Minnesota's state party would behttp://www.lpmn.orgvote for freedom...we can win this war... [ Post Comment ] Comment #40 posted by military officer guy on September 06, 2001 at 19:14:26 PT VOTE LIBERTARIAN, the only solution to the madness Lehder excellent post, just about brought a tear to my eyes, no lie...sage, you are exactly right, it is ONLY our own faults things like this happen...we have the ultimate power to stop this, simply by voting...we must stop voting for people and parties that don't support our views...i've posted here before and i'll post here again, that the only political party that supports smaller government, civil liberties, is the LIBERTARIAN Party...a vote for a libertarian candidate is a vote for true freedom, so get out there and vote, but of course if you want this to continue to happen, just sit there and vote for a dem/rep or better yet, don't vote at all....ps, FoM you kick ass, and everyone on this site ditto... [ Post Comment ] Comment #39 posted by boppy on September 06, 2001 at 13:42:39 PT Rainbow Farm - The Movie This movie was already made, though the plot was a little different. Only us middle aged folks will remember it called "The Legend Of Billy Jack". Instead of a campground it was an "alternative" school. In the movie all the local law enforcement officials wanted to do was to harrass the students and teachers to try to close down the school. That's what this whole thing reminded me of from the get go. The only thing here is that there is no Billy Jack character to "Kung Fu" the bullies around and draw enough attention to the injustice that has been done. I'd like to think that like the 1968 Democratic National convention that "the whole world is watching, the whole world is watching....". [ Post Comment ] Comment #38 posted by buzz daily on September 06, 2001 at 11:39:20 PT: they killed my phriends.! they killed my friends but not their dreams 'they killed my friends where we didnot hear their screams 'they are gone to a better place .& .. I know tom smiled when he saw jerrys face.&when roolie came home they hugged & said see were wren't alone .look down there at all our phrends.gathering together till this all ends.this war on drugs is very confuseing .if they shoot us all will people keep using?Ithink they will still give it whirl.just like children who love to tiwrl.it's in us all from brith to death to escape what it is that keeps us supressed.buzz daily [ Post Comment ] Comment #37 posted by E. Johnson on September 06, 2001 at 10:07:57 PT What Arsenio said On the Leno show he came out in a Dodgers shirt and said he had a suit back in the dressing room but he wasn't going to wear it. If anyone wanted to see it they "come on back, smoke a joint and look at my suit."Then he made some similar reference later in the show about smoking pot, then later he chided Jay and said "See how I worked two marijuana references already..." seeming to be threatening to work in more.Maybe some awareness of the racism in the marijuana laws is finally penetrating Black Clintonland, that land of black Clinton supporters who bought the Clinton administration offical trademarked ideology that it's reefer -- not racism -- that keeps black folk from getting ahead.That was happening on the left, the Gateway theory was being applied to socioeconomics too, and I think a lot of black liberals bought the line that marijuana was the Gateway to the Ghetto.This movement would be so much stronger if the racial barrier could really be crossed in a meaningful way. Marijuana prohibition's greatest friend is racism. [ Post Comment ] Comment #36 posted by Sage on September 06, 2001 at 07:15:40 PT: Put your Money where your Heart is: ) So now we have two more Martyrs;( How many more will perish in a war that will be totally forgotten about 100 years from now or next week... This is by far not been the first case nor will it be the last...For well over twenty years i've had friends tell me that i should run for Congress. Yet, when i ask them for Money to support a campaign, their eyes glaze over and their mouths drop below their knees.Welllllll its a well known fact that elections are bought and paid for, (even absolute morons that live under rocks know that much).Don't blame the Michigan State Troopers nor the FBI, don't blame the Judges or the Prosecuting Attorney's, they are only following the mandates of the Laws.200 plus years ago our Founder's gave us the way to rule our Nation without Guns, Bombs or Bloodshed, they gave us the Vote! (which has been extended to non-land owners and women, hells bells even the age has been dropped to 18 from 21)!!! If you want someone to blame for these most recent Martyr's then take a good look in the Mirror. Your Vote or lack of, put the very Politicians in Office that now sieze property w/out Trial, that break down doors on circumstantial evidence and eavesdrop on conversations (NSA), without a Court Order.You want change!!!!!! Well, the next time you spend 35 dollars on a quarter ounce, send $3.50 to someone that will do something about it for Christ's and the Earth's sake!!!If your really committed then give up Pot for a Year, sale your Guns and send the money you either made or saved to an organization that promotes Change!!!The above thought will last about 30 seconds or untill you bury your head in your bong. But when the Feds or Sherriff is knocking at your door, i pray these words come back and haunt you. You want to blame someone for these most recent deaths??? Then go look in a mirror, they fought the LAW, and the Law won.SageofOrion earthlink.net [ Post Comment ] Comment #35 posted by endorfin on September 06, 2001 at 05:50:59 PT funeral details Someone posted information on the funeral over at Yahooka. Tom Crosslin/Roland Rohm funeral details [ Post Comment ] Comment #34 posted by sm247 on September 06, 2001 at 05:37:50 PT Protest march approved !!! There was an article in last nights paper about a protest march in Elkhart Indiana. I believe it is on Sept. 15th. I hope you can find the article somewhere FoM. The headline read "Protest march approved" this march is for another Michigan man shot by police. This march is less than an hours drive from Vandalia. [ Post Comment ] Comment #33 posted by Red Headed Stranger on September 06, 2001 at 05:09:22 PT Arsenio Hall and Hired Killers Arsenio Hall making light banter about pot? I saw the Arsenio Hall Show piece that brought his downfall. I never watched him again and I believe his treatment of a man appreciated by many, cost him his show and almost his career. When Willie Nelson was on his show to promote a new line of hemp clothing he had come out with and Hall was into all the show biz folks against drugs things and the head of one of those "committees" to "save the children from drugs" ...he humiliated Willie right there on live television. It was an outrage to see. Willie behaved with admirable dignity and humility. Hall attacked him mercilessly about his "pro-marijuana and drug" stance. When I saw Hall recently on a talk show I did not recognize him at first and did notice some references to pot. I know he's not "for real". He's supposed to be an entertainer...but he didn't have to embarrass Willie like he did.About the tragedy at Rainbow Farm, I've noticed many posts about why law enforcement did not handle the situation with these men more humanely. They are not trained to do so. Wounding or incapacitating their subjects in ways that are not deadly are just not on the agenda. They shoot to kill. Many of these officers, sadly enough, consider themselves "Hunters of Men". They mean to "bag" their "trophy". Hide behind a tree? Are you kidding? And miss a good shot? A good shot is something for them to be thrilled about. Many of them have no more feeling than if they had just brought down an animal. It's a mistake to try to imagine that they could feel compassion at all for the "subject" of their "hunt". They aren't made that way, or obviously, they wouldn't be doing what they do. You would have a better chance of explaining any sort of humanity towards their prey to a rabid pit bull. [ Post Comment ] Comment #32 posted by jacksplace58 on September 06, 2001 at 04:10:53 PT Vegas odds? The FBI shows up on Sunday and everyone is dead by Tuesday.I'm sure as soon as the FBI showed the odds of those 2 men coming out alive went right down the tubes and as we know people will bet on anything and this was a sure bet,..just had to pick the time. The odds were probably 6 to 5 and you pick 'em til the feds showed,. [ Post Comment ] Comment #31 posted by pissedonandoff on September 06, 2001 at 02:12:03 PT: me the same as you I feel about like everybody else. The police had plenty of time to arrest them. Pot-tv refers back 3 years ago to accounts of MJ smoking at the farm. They were there about a month earlier to take a 13 year old son away from Tom Croslin. They could have easily picked them up in town without a big fuss. They could have gased them or darted them. They said at first they were prepared to wait six months if it took that long. They just wanted to kill them and avoid the trial.I too am disappointed in the media's coverage of the changing of the world's attitudes on American NarcoImperialism and the fact it is barely mentioned on any television show when it is so prevelant in American Society. Jay Leno is all the time talking to his band director (and the band in general) about marijuana. Of course Bill Mayer is everybodies hero and is doing a benefit with Woody Harrelson and others to promote medical MJ. Everybody else is quiet. Governor Johnson of New Mexico needs to bring this up when he debates Asa Huchinson, the Drug Bizarre, on September 10 at the University of New Mexico. I wish he would ask Asa the dogmatic A** what his interpretation of the term "harm reduction is."In closing I was wondering what Michael J. Fox's attitude toward medical marijuana is and if he has ever presented any accounts of MJ use for MS patients. [ Post Comment ] Comment #30 posted by E. Johnson on September 05, 2001 at 23:58:54 PT Oliver Stone is too Oliver Stone People might disbelieve it just because it was him. [ Post Comment ] Comment #29 posted by FoM on September 05, 2001 at 23:38:15 PT Oliver Stone Maybe he would be interested in doing a movie. I can dream but he sure doesn't like the drug war. [ Post Comment ] Comment #28 posted by E. Johnson on September 05, 2001 at 23:31:31 PT What about Sean Penn? He was just out there putting himself on record saying that the only reason to make films is to tell the truth and there is no other valid reason. [ Post Comment ] Comment #27 posted by FoM on September 05, 2001 at 23:20:46 PT My Feelings I just must say that all the comments are very good. So much thought has gone into them. We know that the war against marijuana is wrong. We lost Peter McWilliams last year, now just a little over a year later, we've lost two more kindred spirits and at the hands of our government. I am not a person that is motivated by hate but I want answers. I want to know why this happened. What was the need of this force? Did the police provoke them to act foolishly so they would have a good excuse to blow them away? I want to know. I think we all want to know these things and more. We have a right to know. When I read they were patroling for marijuana activists that made me very angry. Like we're predators or worse. That's all. I've said enough. I don't like to put my foot in my mouth and this is the time I could do it very easily. Thanks everyone. [ Post Comment ] Comment #26 posted by E. Johnson on September 05, 2001 at 22:51:00 PT They laughed -- now we have to make them cry There has been enough funny lighthearted stuff about pot in the media.I at first thought Saving Grace was a great movie but now I think it helped American boomers who saw it believe that nothing really bad happened to people who got caught growing marijuana. In this movie, a politically correct affluent white British woman starts growing pot as a way to save her lovely English estate from the debts left by her horrible scoundrel of a husband. She grows magnificent bud with the help of some friends, then she meets the ever-enchanting Tcheky Karyo who is a teddy bear with a switchblade of a drug dealer who promises to take her goods to market.In the end they get busted and the pot goes up in flames and she and Tcheky get married and she writes a bestselling book about having grown the pot ---- then hints that maybe the whole movie was just that fictional book after all.There has to be a movie on this subject that isn't a joke or an extended pun or a cuddly wuddly movie designed to make people think that the marijuana laws aren't really bothering anyone so why should they be changed... [ Post Comment ] Comment #25 posted by Robbie on September 05, 2001 at 22:41:25 PT Reefer Madness?? On off-Broadway? With Paula Abdul?!?! Wow. That's wild.I note your thoughts on Jay Leno, E. Johnson. Last week, he started a joke talking about the man in Washington who was naked and led police to his home grow-op. The punchline (paraphrasing), "All I know is this, that was some REALLY good pot!" And it got applause! I was amazed. A national figure with a pro-pot joke?! Keep 'em comin' Jay! [ Post Comment ] Comment #24 posted by E. Johnson on September 05, 2001 at 22:32:19 PT Reefer Madness on The View This morning on The View they had Paula Abdul who is choreographing Reefer Madness for its off-Broadway run.It's a cultural war, you have to fight it on the cultural front. [ Post Comment ] Comment #23 posted by Lehder on September 05, 2001 at 22:20:56 PT tell us the truth They need to be led through that relationship in a dramatic and compelling fashion. In a manner where they can understand the motivation of everyone involved. --E.J.Your entire comment is very important and touches at the heart of our efforts. Television and print have been criminally fettered, but why has the truth about the personal and social disaster of the drug war not been broadcast from Hollywood? The writers, moguls and actors know from close experience and know better than most the connections among marijuana, drug war, personal annihilation and social destruction. But the movie has yet to play, and that is what the public must see."Traffic", really, portrayed the war only gingerly, offering hints of truth, yet it was hungrily received by an audience that remains unsatisfied and confused, skeptical of the drug war and searching for answers. Especially today as we fail to find reasons or sense. We know that Hollywood, too, has been hobbled and intimidated the same as all the aspects of our lives. But the response to "Traffic" showed that the time has come. The truths to be revealed and the horrors that have been hidden are too overgrown to conceal. There are twenty or more million stories to be told, and this cruel orphaning of a twelve-year-old boy, five years growing up in Rainbow Farm, is one that must be told. Because it defies our humanity. No threat or manner of repression or dumb appeal to social cause or phony tale of ruin - nothing can justify this, nothing can excuse it, and the drug warriors now have nothing more they can say. Words only cheat us, but these killings must stop.It's not about Cheech and Chong or drugstore cowboys any more, not even about drugs at all. It's about the awful bullies with lead for brains and guns for debates, the horror that we have become and the saner people whom we must learn to be. The screen is still dark but the music has begun and this war is over. Yet nothing can replace the father of young Robert Rohm, and all our hearts today are his. [ Post Comment ] Comment #22 posted by E. Johnson on September 05, 2001 at 22:07:36 PT Cherry 2000 That's where my name comes from. Melanie Griffith's character in Cherry 2000.She wore a sweatshirt with DIGNITY in huge letters across the chest. [ Post Comment ] Comment #21 posted by E. Johnson on September 05, 2001 at 22:04:34 PT Marijuana on Jay Leno Lately on Jay Leno there's been a lot of references to people smoking pot during the show.Arsenio Hall especially. This is so strange, it's weird to hear cute marijuana banter tee hee wink wink nudge on network TV and then compare that with this.Like it can't happen to them. They can be lighthearted about it.Tonight Jennifer Aniston is on the show... [ Post Comment ] Comment #20 posted by Poisoned1500Days on September 05, 2001 at 22:04:09 PT and and Cultural Effect is one ofthe most important things anybodycan achieve ( assuming its positive ). [ Post Comment ] Comment #19 posted by Poisoned1500Days on September 05, 2001 at 22:00:38 PT E, Johnson is right about the movie E. Johnson is right about the movie.To get the attention of the averageAmerican you have to use television.The really important corollary tothat is that the more television youcontrol the more cultural effect you can have. [ Post Comment ] Comment #18 posted by Patrick on September 05, 2001 at 21:22:38 PT curious thought mr.greenjenes This scenario you have imagined and the questions you have raised. I wanna know the answers to those questions of yours? Plus, I am formulating a few questions of my own. Questions involving connections between certain states and servants of the public trust who happened to be in Michigan on Labor Day. Shark attacks indeed. [ Post Comment ] Comment #17 posted by Dank Hank on September 05, 2001 at 20:52:26 PT: Right On, Mr Greengenes Good point, probably the best point WE can make.See http://www.cannabisnews.com/news/thread10830.shtml#2 [ Post Comment ] Comment #16 posted by puff_tuff on September 05, 2001 at 20:40:44 PT: Support is growing I posted the above article at the Cannabis Culture Forums.The following is from Marc EmeryI am encouraging Americans and Canadians from Ontario to go to the property in Vandalia and camp there in protest of the murder of these two Cannabis Martyrs.We are putting up money to cover some on-site costs and are currently talking with US activists about a camp out protest at the Rainbow Farm property.MarcMarc Emery - Moderator http://cannabisculture.com/cgi/wwwthreads/wwwthreads.pl [ Post Comment ] Comment #15 posted by Rock-N-Roller on September 05, 2001 at 20:04:51 PT Get up, Stand up, Stand up for your right. In order to bring more media attention to this tragedy we need to make a lot of noise. We need the likes of Gary Johnson, Jessie Ventura, and Normal to attend the funerals and deliver the eulogies. We need to have thousands of people, attend the services, just like the police and firemen do. If this could happen the media cannot completley ignore this. If we get more media attention it can possibly help to educate the ones who need it. E-Mail Gary Johnson's office, and Normal, lets try to get them there. This will show to the nation and the families of those who died, that the efforts of these modern day patriots will not be in vain. To sit and do nothing is what the opposition would like to see. I will make several posts of this comment. Do not be angry or surprised if you see this again. I will post it in other places to get more attention. Get up, Stand up, Stand up for your right. [ Post Comment ] Comment #14 posted by Cannabis Dave on September 05, 2001 at 19:46:14 PT What can we all do? Don't let their deaths be in vain - get involved and use some of your anger for constructive purposes. What can we all do? They said it better than I could on the Rainbow Farm website:http://www.rainbowfarmcampground.com/invlvd.htmWe can live better lives by following those suggestions. They died for the cause of cannabis/hemp and saving the environment, so lets all become better people by living our lives in a more environmentally friendly way by following some of the simple suggestions listed there.I'm sitting here listening to them argue about "stem cells" again on the news. Considering what they do to human beings and animals, it seems so silly to argue about using stem cells for many very valuable reasons. Our government is so compassionate about life though - they don't like abortions or using stem cells, but if a person doesn't agree with them and acts mentally ill (it was obviously suicidal for them to challenge the "authorities" with guns) they send in the snipers! [ Post Comment ] Comment #13 posted by cannabis dave on September 05, 2001 at 19:24:35 PT I "purpose" of the people executed. If you read the "purpose" on the Rainbow Farm website, it explains the beliefs of the people executed.http://www.rainbowfarmcampground.com/index2.htmlIt's so sad that the FBI felt it neccessary to execute kind, caring, peaceful people like that after it was stated in the media that they really wanted a "peaceful" resolution (sure they did, that's why they sent in snipers). All they had to do was wait, and sending in snipers was obviously a death sentence in that situation. They did that in front of us all, and we must not let them get away with it. They made a BIG mistake, because this tragedy will greatly help the cause of hemp/cannabis and personal freedom in this country. I believe those people died knowing that, because they were obviously not fools...God bless them both!! [ Post Comment ] Comment #12 posted by E. Johnson on September 05, 2001 at 18:59:28 PT Make it into a movie to get to Americans Look we have this explosion of independent cable productions, there are film makers all over the place looking for a story like this.Someone should start working on a script right now.This story is really over the heads of most Americans who do not understand the connection between marijuana and total descturction of a person's life.They need to be led through that relationship in a dramatic and compelling fashion. In a manner where they can understand the motivation of everyone involved.We have friends in the entertainment industry do we not? [ Post Comment ] Comment #11 posted by lookinside on September 05, 2001 at 18:53:14 PT: anger... boils...we knew the government would execute them...we sathelplessly, knowing the outcome...our government is murdering it's citizens...a half dozen supporters, a mile away...we areineffective...the government wins...another...a general strike is in order...authority must be brought down...we can no longer survive as a nation because we have nomorals...hate and anger are painful...but no other feelings arepossible, until those FBI goons are dispatched as timmcveigh was... [ Post Comment ] Comment #10 posted by Robbie on September 05, 2001 at 18:29:20 PT The question is... Will ANYONE seriously investigate? Will there be an actual federal, state, or local inquiry? Will reporters GET OFF THEIR ARSES and do a little work?And I keep reading that they told both of them to put doen the gun many times. How long is many times? 5 seconds? 10 seconds? In ALL that time, these jackbooted sharpshooters couldn't aim for the FREAKIN' SHOULDER?!?!?Let's go Risko! Why was there terminal force used? I want an answer! [ Post Comment ] Comment #9 posted by mr.greengenes on September 05, 2001 at 18:19:09 PT Curious thought I had a thought which I haven't seen brought up anywhere yet. They say that both men raised their rifles at the agents, thereby forcing the agents to fire to protect themselves. Now knowing how safety concious the police are, one would have to assume that they were in full battle gear, i.e. kevlar vests, kevlar lined helmets, bullet proof safety goggles, ect. Also, they were more than likely hiding behind some object for extra protection, a vehicle, or tree. From the reports I have heard, the agents were 100 yards away from Tom Crosslin. Imagine this scenario. How were the agents in danger? Tom had a mini-14 with no scope. He barely has time to get it to his shoulder, let alone take aim at a human sized target hiding behind, let's say a tree, the length of a football field away, before he gets shot. I guarentee the agent had him in his sights at all times. I have an SKS and if I shot into an average sized tree point blank , the bullet wouldn't even pass half way through the tree. Why couldn't the agent have just stepped back behind the tree? Why didn't the agents use non-lethal weapons like rubber bullets, bean bag guns, tranquilizer darts or some other means to subdue him? I don't buy the concept that the agents lives were in danger at any time. These chickensh*ts don't have the balls to put themselves in harms way. I plan on attending the funeral. I hope many others will follow suit. [ Post Comment ] Comment #8 posted by Andy on September 05, 2001 at 18:08:38 PT Put down your guns I just like the way the FBI and Cops keep saying that they were told to put down thier guns. I'm sure the FBI and cops never put down thiers. So should it be ok to shoot a cop because he pulled a gun on you and you told them to put their guns down and leave. What do you expect a man being held captive by a bunch of men with guns suppose to do.My thoughts and sympathy to Tom Croslin and Rolland Rohm.This is America [ Post Comment ] Comment #7 posted by mayan on September 05, 2001 at 18:03:32 PT Liberty or Death If the neighbors never complained then these people should have been left alone on their private property. Oh, never mind...I was thinking that this was a free country.Their lives have been taken.Liberty is dead.The pursuit of happiness is just a memory. [ Post Comment ] Comment #6 posted by FoM on September 05, 2001 at 16:56:47 PT Thanks Again Gary Got you blushing. That made me smile. It's hard to smile with this all happening but you were successful anyway. I've added more to my memorial page. Here's the link if you or anyone is interested. You're welcome for C News too! I don't know how it would be without everyone commenting and sharing their feelings like is happening.Tom Crosslin & Rolland Rohm Memorial: http://www.freedomtoexhale.com/rb.htm [ Post Comment ] Comment #5 posted by puff_tuff on September 05, 2001 at 16:40:32 PT: Federal Bureau of Intimidation A fitting quote from Howard Zinn"The most important thing you can do is simply to continue exposing them. Because why does the FBI do all this? To scare the hell out of people. Were they doing this because of a Soviet invasion threat or because they thought the Socialist Workers Party was about to take over the country? Are they going after whoever their current target is because the country is in imminent danger, internal or external? No. They are doing it because they don't like these organizations. They don't like the civil rights organizations, they don't like the women's organizations, they don't like the anti-war organizations, they don't like the Central American organizations. They don't like social movements. They work for the establishment and the corporations and the politicos to keep things as they are. And they want to frighten and chill the people who are trying to change things. So the best defense against them and resistance against them is simply to keep on fighting back, to keep on exposing them. That's all I have to say." Howard Zinn http://mediafilter.org/MFF/FBI.html [ Post Comment ] Comment #4 posted by observer on September 05, 2001 at 16:37:22 PT re: Thank You Gary! Good job Gary!! It just hurts so much that it has come to this. Those men were murdered for their beliefs, because they spoke out. [ Post Comment ] Comment #3 posted by Gary Storck on September 05, 2001 at 16:10:01 PT Thank You FOM! *blush* Thans FOM, and thanks so much for working so hard to build a place to read the news and discuss it. I'm just glad the reporter called me and let me share my feelings on this tragedy.I guess I'll never get to the Rainbow Farm now, but I know that two good men lost were killed because of a stupid law that should never have been passed. I hope the good people of Michigan can get PRAyes on the ballot, and vote it into law.And I hope a thousand new Rainbow campgrounds bloom in every state. http://www.drugsense.org/dpfwi [ Post Comment ] Comment #2 posted by FoM on September 05, 2001 at 15:56:37 PT Thank You Gary! Gary, You know you have always been an inspiration to me and you did it once again and I wanted to say thank you so much. Bless Your Heart. [ Post Comment ] Comment #1 posted by goneposthole on September 05, 2001 at 15:32:48 PT martyrs and menaces Martyr: Tom CroslinMartyr: Rolland RohmMenace: government [ Post Comment ] Post Comment