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  Scientists Can Do Drug Testing on Whole Cities
Posted by CN Staff on August 22, 2007 at 08:00:53 PT
By Seth Borenstein, The Associated Press  
Source: Associated Press 

drug_testing Washington, DC -- Researchers have figured out how to give an entire community a drug test using just a teaspoon of wastewater from a city's sewer plant.

The test wouldn't be used to finger any single person as a drug user. But it would help federal law enforcement and other agencies track the spread of dangerous drugs, like methamphetamines, across the country.

Oregon State University scientists tested 10 unnamed American cities for remnants of drugs, both legal and illegal, from wastewater streams. They were able to show that they could get a good snapshot of what people are taking.

"It's a community urinalysis," said Caleb Banta-Green, a University of Washington drug abuse researcher who was part of the Oregon State team. The scientists presented their results Tuesday at a meeting of the American Chemical Society in Boston.

Two federal agencies have taken samples from U.S. waterways to see if drug testing a whole city is doable, but they haven't gotten as far as the Oregon researchers.

One of the early results of the new study showed big differences in methamphetamine use city to city. One urban area with a gambling industry had meth levels more than five times higher than other cities. Yet methamphetamine levels were virtually nonexistent in some smaller Midwestern locales, said Jennifer Field, the lead researcher and a professor of environmental toxicology at Oregon State.

The ingredient Americans consume and excrete the most was caffeine, Field said.

Cities in the experiment ranged from 17,000 to 600,000 in population, but Field declined to identify them, saying that could harm her relationship with the sewage plant operators.

She plans to start a survey for drugs in the wastewater of at least 40 Oregon communities.

The science behind the testing is simple. Nearly every drug -- legal and illicit -- that people take leaves the body. That waste goes into toilets and then into wastewater treatment plants.

"Wastewater facilities are wonderful places to understand what humans consume and excrete," Field said.

In the study presented Tuesday, one teaspoon of untreated sewage water from each of the cities was tested for 15 different drugs. Field said researchers can't calculate how many people in a town are using drugs.

She said that one fairly affluent community scored low for illicit drugs except for cocaine. Cocaine and ecstasy tended to peak on weekends and drop on weekdays, she said, while methamphetamine and prescription drugs were steady throughout the week.

Field said her study suggests that a key tool currently used by drug abuse researchers -- self-reported drug questionnaires -- underestimates drug use.

"We have so few indicators of current use," said Jane Maxwell of the Addiction Research Institute at the University of Texas, who wasn't part of the study. "This could be a very interesting new indicator."

David Murray, chief scientist for U.S. Office of National Drug Control Policy, said the idea interests his agency.

Murray said the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency is testing federal wastewater samples just to see if that's a good method for monitoring drug use. But he didn't know how many tests were conducted or where.

The EPA will "flush out the details" on testing, Benjamin Grumbles joked. The EPA assistant administrator said the agency is already looking at the problem of potential harm to rivers and lakes from legal pharmaceuticals.

The idea of testing on a citywide basis for drugs makes sense, as long as it doesn't violate people's privacy, said Tom Angell of the Students for Sensible Drug Policy, a Washington-based group that advocates legalizing most drugs.

"This seems to be less offensive than individualized testing," he said.

Source: Associated Press (Wire)
Author: Seth Borenstein, The Associated Press
Published: August 22, 2007
Copyright: 2007 Associated Press


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Comment #72 posted by boballen131313 on August 23, 2007 at 19:45:09 PT:

Can you imagine the real good this technology could be used instead of a weapon in the War on Us. Finding toxic traces linked to cancer comes to mind as well as the general good health of the community. Maybe finding those high traces of lead and other heavy metals would be cost effective? Its going to be real interesting to find out which communities and neighborhoods score highest on the community pee test, though. The whitest, richest might be a tad embarrassed...we can only hope. Oh! But wait, those communities will never be tested. How foolish of me to dream of real science in a political world.

[ Post Comment ]
Comment #71 posted by FoM on August 23, 2007 at 08:48:06 PT
I'm glad you liked it too. I haven't felt this way about a candidate since Bobby Kennedy. Senator Obama reasons with problems and uses common sense. We need common sense in our government and we need the young generation to get onboard because it is their future and he is successfully attracting young people.

[ Post Comment ]
Comment #70 posted by dongenero on August 23, 2007 at 08:40:24 PT
Obama on Daily Show
Yes, that was a good interview FoM.

His response to all the crazy, blown-out headlines was great. Just a honest hearty laugh. He sure seemed like a measured, rational and relaxed candidate. To me, he seems to be one of those people that has an extra spark, twinkle in the eye, or charisma. You just sense he may be destined for greatness, for history.

I hope that if he is elected, he will do good things for our cause here and the injustice people have suffered over cannabis.

He also had a great response regarding reports of his "lack of experience."

He said something to the effect that, you can't find more combined experience that Cheney and Rumsfeld, and look where that has gotten us.

The crowd loved that one. It went out of the park. It was way better than a home run by Bonds.

[ Post Comment ]

Comment #69 posted by FoM on August 23, 2007 at 08:13:20 PT
Isn't that the best news! When I saw MPP's press release yesterday about Obama and I just stopped and stared at it for a minute because I was so happy. Obama laughed last night when Jon Stewart held up this headline. He kicked back in his chair and really laughed. It was great.

Angry Obama the Pothead is Not How They Remember Him in Hawaii

[ Post Comment ]

Comment #68 posted by afterburner on August 23, 2007 at 08:03:02 PT
FoM #54
"All Democratic Presidential Candidate Pledge To End Medical Marijuana Raids, Group Says"


[ Post Comment ]

Comment #67 posted by FoM on August 23, 2007 at 07:14:17 PT
We're ok. The north west part of Ohio that is very flat has had problems but we are ok because we are up in the rolling hills. Thanks for asking.

[ Post Comment ]
Comment #66 posted by afterburner on August 23, 2007 at 07:12:31 PT
OT: Merck Alert
Our girls aren't guinea pigs: Is an upcoming mass inoculation of a generation unnecessary and potentially dangerous? CATHY GULLI. Macleans Magazine. August 27, 2007 issue. Read

Merck is at it again. Protect your girl babies and grandbabies from Merck's mad scientists before it's too late.

[ Post Comment ]

Comment #65 posted by Toker00 on August 23, 2007 at 06:08:12 PT
Floods...Minnesota to Ohio...
Everyone ok?


[ Post Comment ]

Comment #64 posted by potpal on August 22, 2007 at 18:33:55 PT
Does this mean that if a city tests positive, they're gonna put the whole city in jail or maybe build a wall around it?

It appears cannabis isn't suitable for wastewater testing. No mention of it above.

These scientists need to get their head out of the toilet.

[ Post Comment ]

Comment #63 posted by mayan on August 22, 2007 at 18:26:39 PT
Test Johnny Pee
Perhaps they could test the perpetual emmissions of bullsh*t from Johnny Pee's mouth!


THE MILITARY INDUSTRIAL COMPLEX AND 911 TRUTH: Understanding the History Channel Hit piece:

History Channel, 9/11 Conspiracies Suicide-Swipe:

Webster Tarpley: "When a Knock is a Boost":

History Channel Fraudsters Pass Off Joke Website as Representative Of 9/11 Truth:

9/11/07 Official We Are Change Promo Video Release:


[ Post Comment ]

Comment #62 posted by E_Johnson on August 22, 2007 at 18:13:07 PT
Sometimes people have to go to jail
That's one way social change is accomplished in America. By risk takers, taking risks.

[ Post Comment ]

Comment #61 posted by RevRayGreen on August 22, 2007 at 18:11:44 PT
Why not just let all the caregivers ? #58
that's how it all began, with Ed Rosenthal and the City of Oakland/WHAMM group.........I have a good friend who is locked up in Nevada for pushing the limits of state medical marijuana laws of Nevada as a patient, provider,caregiver and activist.

another very close friend was just raided last week, second time in two years, this time they only found less than 1 lb, but enough to put him behind bars for now :(

[ Post Comment ]

Comment #60 posted by FoM on August 22, 2007 at 18:00:35 PT
EJ One More Comment
I fear for the people who might wind up in jail. I don't want anyone to go to jail over this. I wish it could be fixed once and for all.

[ Post Comment ]
Comment #59 posted by FoM on August 22, 2007 at 17:56:28 PT
EJ Great Idea
I only see what is happening in California from reading about it and talking about it but I have no idea how to make it work. I am an outsider looking in and trying to figure out how it could be fixed because I care.

[ Post Comment ]
Comment #58 posted by E_Johnson on August 22, 2007 at 17:49:19 PT
It won't work without dispensaries FoM
There's no way most patients can really grow their own. That was a romantic notion but most people don't have the space needed for indoor growing or the security needed for outdoor growing.

And it's terribly inefficient to make every single patient find a different caregiver. Why not just let all the caregivers open up a store together? That's a much more efficient way to match people who can grow pot with people who need it.

[ Post Comment ]

Comment #57 posted by Taylor121 on August 22, 2007 at 16:27:48 PT
Drug Legalization on Fox News

[ Post Comment ]
Comment #56 posted by HempWorld on August 22, 2007 at 15:39:29 PT
Scientists Can Do Drug Testing on Whole Cities
Great! Let's start with Washington DC!

[ Post Comment ]
Comment #55 posted by Toker00 on August 22, 2007 at 14:37:40 PT
nuevo mexican
I called that number and they actually allowed me to record my support for Impeachment. This is great! What are they up to....


[ Post Comment ]

Comment #54 posted by FoM on August 22, 2007 at 14:28:18 PT
News Article from
All Democratic Presidential Candidate Pledge To End Medical Marijuana Raids, Group Says


Wednesday, August 22, 2007

Last night in Nashua US Senator Barack Obama became the latest Democratic presidential candidate to say that if he were elected president he would end raids from federal law enforcement agencies against those who use medical marijuana in the dozen states where it is legal to do so.

According to Granite Staters for Medical Marijuana, this means that now all 2008 Democratic presidential candidates have agreed to stop raids, something the group says has been on the rise this summer, especially in California.

Three New England state -- Maine, Vermont and Rhode Island -- allow the use of marijuana for medical purposes.

Copyright: 2007 The New York Times Company

[ Post Comment ]

Comment #53 posted by FoM on August 22, 2007 at 14:15:07 PT
Your reason is exactly why we need to change the federal law. What was started in 96 with Prop 215 needs to be completed so this problem can be solved once and for all. That's just my opinion though.

[ Post Comment ]
Comment #52 posted by FoM on August 22, 2007 at 14:08:50 PT
You sound like you are making good memories. Enjoy the rest of your time out in sunny California. It's a beautiful state.

[ Post Comment ]
Comment #51 posted by whig on August 22, 2007 at 14:03:58 PT
I can't grow my own where I live and a caregiver is a very serious dependency relationship on another person which it's pretty hard to enter into with someone you don't know very well for a long time. It's true that people who have lived in a place for a long time probably know someone who they trust but consider someone who moves from somewhere else and doesn't know a lot of the local people that well. If they raid dispensaries who are following the rules that the state has instituted then it will create hardship for patients like me.

And whether I might like it or not, they are collecting state sales taxes on my medicine now so I should expect the state to defend those dispensaries who are following the rules.

With that having been said, I don't know how Barack Obama can promise not to raid dispensaries that aren't accepting regulation and obviously if some facility weren't verifying medical recommendations, etc., you should expect them to be shut down if they are caught.

[ Post Comment ]

Comment #50 posted by fight_4_freedom on August 22, 2007 at 13:47:48 PT:

Oh yes I am loving it out here. Although I'm doing more babysitting than anything else, it's still been a lot of fun. But my sis and her husband need time by themselves and I'm glad I can help them out with that.

Still looking for that green goodness though ;) If all goes well I'll be attending this reggae fest in Del Mar on saturday. Which is featuring Ziggy Marley as the headliner. And I know for a fact I'll find it there.

I'm definitely not looking forward to going back home

[ Post Comment ]

Comment #49 posted by FoM on August 22, 2007 at 13:38:30 PT
I hope you are enjoying your visit.

[ Post Comment ]
Comment #48 posted by FoM on August 22, 2007 at 13:37:15 PT
I didn't think you were. I put things in my mind in an order. I put them in an order so I can make sense of what the problem is. We have many states that don't have a medical marijuana law and some states still have harsh penalities for a small amount in their possession. California is one state but we need to look at all the states so we can be fair.

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Comment #47 posted by fight_4_freedom on August 22, 2007 at 13:26:25 PT:

Little too late to go now, but just so you know...

In the last few months, the Drug Enforcement Administration (DEA) and local law enforcement have raided medical cannabis collectives in Los Angeles, Corona and Oakdale. These raids have left thousands of patients in a state of fear and uncertainty as well as providers facing state and federal charges. We need to join together to help stop these unjust raids and defend safe access all over California.

Stand Up For Your Rights! This WEDNESDAY AUGUST 22, 2007 at 12:00 Noon In front of the Modesto Superior Court 800 11th Street Modesto, CA Sign's will be available, feel free to bring your own.

In the good spirit of support we urge you to make donations to and Your generous donations help these organizations in the fight to provide safe and legal access.

I wanted to go but I'm like an 8 hour drive from there right now. I'm only here for a few more days, so I have to spend as much time with the fam as possible.

I hope they have a good turnout though.

[ Post Comment ]

Comment #46 posted by dongenero on August 22, 2007 at 13:24:29 PT
I do not mean to insinuate that current dispensaries are of questionable motives or ethics. I have no idea about any of them specifically.

Logically, the increased risk of arrest is going to push many law abiding caregivers or providers out and leave only organized crime, whose business is to take such risks.

[ Post Comment ]

Comment #45 posted by FoM on August 22, 2007 at 13:23:58 PT
From the very first time I read about Valerie Corral on MSNBC and saw her on the news I understood and thought it was such a good idea. I know that the supply end needs some help but that must be done federally as far as I know. We have to change the Federal law. It's against Federal Law.

[ Post Comment ]
Comment #44 posted by dongenero on August 22, 2007 at 13:18:49 PT
Yes, WAMM seemed to have a great model for helping medical cannabis patients who were desperately ill.

Of course, the Feds raided them and shut it down.

The result seems to be that more questionable models of providing cannabis have popped up and less quality ones exist.

When the Feds crack down on compassionate, law abiding citizens, like WAMM, trying to do something to help, less of those people will risk trying to help in the future.

As perceived risk increases, the people participating on the supply side will be more and more the gray area, risk takers. More and more of the criminal element who will take the risks. Good work there DEA!

[ Post Comment ]

Comment #43 posted by FoM on August 22, 2007 at 12:43:21 PT
I'm not from California so I don't understand dispensaries. I understand how WAMM has done it though.

[ Post Comment ]
Comment #42 posted by Had Enough on August 22, 2007 at 12:42:55 PT
Talk of politicians made me think of a tune…

Well he's tellin' us this

And he's tellin' us that

Changes it every day

Say's it doesn't matter

Bases are loaded and Casey's at bat

Playin' it play by play

Time to change the batter


Joe Walsh - Rocky Mountain Way (live)

[ Post Comment ]

Comment #41 posted by dongenero on August 22, 2007 at 12:38:24 PT
Patients growing and caregivers growing may be just fine.

I think however, that the counties in CA. have been allowing dispensaries and I think this is as the wording of law allows. (Maybe someone here can clarify CA law.)

The patients protesting seem to be in need of the dispensaries. Maybe some are not able to grow their own effectively or find caregivers to do so.

I'm not sure FoM, but the dispensaries seem to be a big part of the issue...for both sides.

[ Post Comment ]

Comment #40 posted by BGreen on August 22, 2007 at 12:36:56 PT
Excellent point, dongenero
That's the exact same thing as cops saying "we're not going after the casual user, we're just arresting people who grow it."

In other words, unless you're a causal user who happens to crap or wish cannabis into existence, you're a person that has to depend on the dangerous black market to get your cannabis. This is what makes us "terrorists" and creates so much harm for cops (so they say.)

However, in their infinite wisdom, they'll ignore this perpetuation of a widely illicit market in order to arrest and terrorize every citizen who wisely removes themselves from such a nasty criminal enterprise by planting a few seeds in the ground.

That is such idiotic and convoluted logic.

You'll remember that our candidate shrub said back in 1999 that he favored states rights over federal. Lying SOB.

I don't really trust any politicians, so just to be safe we better make sure our hopes and freedoms don't come crashing down due to clever word choices and semantics.

The Reverend Bud Green

[ Post Comment ]

Comment #39 posted by FoM on August 22, 2007 at 12:29:33 PT
Maybe someday an apology will come but I bet it would be years from now.

[ Post Comment ]
Comment #38 posted by FoM on August 22, 2007 at 12:26:08 PT
I don't know how anyone feels about dispensaries. To me leaving medical marijuana patients alone and letting them grow they own or have a caregiver grow it for them would probably be ok with them.

[ Post Comment ]
Comment #37 posted by museman on August 22, 2007 at 12:22:50 PT
Without a corporate mandate, a modern presidents hands are effectively tied of the purse strings of the corporate rich, who haven't given an inch...ever.

The hand that feeds the politician will not be bitten by them.

Obamna's statement is good precedent however, and all I can say is it's about 70 years late, after several hundred thousand suffering people who have been imprisoned, lives practically ruined, and America itself split in the middle, but hey, better late than never I guess.

How about an apology from the errant fools who keep lying about the medicinal properties of cannabis so they can keep it illegal? Because once that is acknowledged, prohibition is effectively over.

[ Post Comment ]

Comment #36 posted by dongenero on August 22, 2007 at 12:18:38 PT
Obama post #25
Just to be clear, in post #25 he said:

"I would not have the Justice Department prosecuting and raiding medical marijuana users,"

He did NOT say he would prevent raids on dispensaries, which is mostly what the DEA is doing and which has been highly criticized. I am not sure if any of the candidates have clarified that point.

People need to keep asking these questions of the candidates, continuing to clarify their positions.

Make no assumptions.

[ Post Comment ]

Comment #35 posted by FoM on August 22, 2007 at 12:15:42 PT
Had Enough
That day will come with the Democrats now. The Internet has push us along and they are listening.

[ Post Comment ]
Comment #34 posted by Had Enough on August 22, 2007 at 12:08:26 PT
what a politician says…
What I meant was all their lives they have been making rules and regulations for every one but themselves to live by. During all that time they could have stopped with the stuff against cannabis, but they didn’t. Now that they are begging, borrowing and stealing for votes they tell us this and that. That’s all I was trying to say.

At least they are talking about it and that is a step in the right direction. But I can’t wait for the time to come when it will be political suicide to speak out against it.

[ Post Comment ]

Comment #33 posted by FoM on August 22, 2007 at 12:00:37 PT
Had Enough
I'm not sure I understand. They can't do anything until one of them becomes the President.

[ Post Comment ]
Comment #32 posted by Had Enough on August 22, 2007 at 11:55:29 PT
wannabe presidents
And if these wannabe presidents (mainstream media selected) were really serious about this, how come they haven’t done much to end this madness???

Come election time though they are shamed into responding.

They can stop this right in its tracks if they really wanted to.

[ Post Comment ]

Comment #31 posted by FoM on August 22, 2007 at 11:52:03 PT
Had Enough
I think we will see change now. They all think along our line of thought. Bush is a Republican so that is why he said what he said and did what he did. Stick said we would probably be able to hold Obama's feet to the fire if he doesn't do what he said he would. He cares what people think. He tries to be honest.

[ Post Comment ]
Comment #30 posted by FoM on August 22, 2007 at 11:48:10 PT
nuevo mexican
It's good to see you. I am happy today because of Obama. I hope you are having a nice visit. It is humid and muggy this last week but it has been beautiful the whole summer. You came at the wrong time! LOL!

[ Post Comment ]
Comment #29 posted by Had Enough on August 22, 2007 at 11:46:36 PT
OK; They are talking…

Will they do the walk???

Not sure if you can believe what a politician says…

Especially when they are asked repeatedly, and wait a long time before they answer.

I remember Bush saying it should be a state decision, and look what happened. The bible that Ashcroft was sworn in on was hardly put away before the raids started.

I guess we will have to wait it out and see.

[ Post Comment ]

Comment #28 posted by nuevo mexican on August 22, 2007 at 11:40:31 PT
O/T, Pelosi+Impeachment poll! 1-202-225-0100
Hi FOM! I'm next door to Ohio for a family visit! Ohio was my dads home state!

Hot, humid, muggy, and buggy! Better than Indiana I hope!

How does anyone live back here?

(They don't, it's a/c or else!)

Anyway, Nancy Pelosi is taking an impeachment poll, so far only one against it, according to the nice lady on the phone!

Here's the numbers, please send far and wide, post the numbers at MySpace, etc. anywhere we can get a massive response! Pelosi_taking_phone_poll_on_Bush_Cheney_Impeachment_12022250100

Given the president’s recent veto of the spending bill, Speaker of the House Pelosi is taking a phone poll on impeachment. It takes 2 seconds. Call 1-202-225-0100 and simply say you want to register you support for impeachment. They will say thank you and you’ll feel better all day.

I have NEVER asked for reposts, but this is as close as we have gotten to getting the democrats to do what needs to be done to preserve the integrity of democratic system in this country.


Take the power back! BlackPacker @ 05/02/07 11:33:33

Thanks in advance!

The Dems are finding that their spine has a use, and with enough SHAME, they just may have to use it, but DON'T count on these wanna-be Rapepublicans! They too, are beholden to the money-changers, and now that they have revealed themselves as such, it is their job to prove they have some backbone!

Now prove it Dems or be the bane of society, worse than the Rapepublicans, for allowing the Constitution to be destroyed while they worried about bush getting his next 911 job, and Iran ON the Table!

It's just SOOOO easy when you're bush to get your way, just threaten the lives and livlihoods or millions of Americans, and they wilt away, into their teevees, and Costcos., eating themselves to death, while they wait for American Idol to keep them from having to think or act, or live for that matter!

Disgusted with the American populace, sheeple, sad, but TRUE!

Wake up you ............

Of course, this isn't the case with most who read C-News, and I direct this towards newbies here, who may be waking up to the fact that America is over, done, toast, and vile!

I mean, what country could produce a Michael Vick, and then want him back in sports after his sentence is served.....the Wrath of the Gods on America won't be pretty, as that is what bush and cheney are, the Wrath to Wake us up, or put us to sleep, you always make the call!

I would like to see a World Constitution, and a World based Bill of Rights, approved by all countries, and those who don't sign up, get to have bush and cheney run their countries into the ground!

Don't forget to call Nancy!

[ Post Comment ]

Comment #27 posted by FoM on August 22, 2007 at 11:34:39 PT
I am so excited I can barely contain myself. I really like Senator Obama but he needed to say something and he did. I can't wait to see him on the Daily Show tonight.

[ Post Comment ]
Comment #26 posted by fight_4_freedom on August 22, 2007 at 11:29:11 PT:

This is a relief. Now we have all Democratic candidates on our side. Wonderful news! Woo Hoo!!!

[ Post Comment ]
Comment #25 posted by FoM on August 22, 2007 at 11:16:30 PT
Obama To End Federal Medical Marijuana Raids
Obama To End Federal Medical Marijuana Raids; Democratic Candidates Now Unanimous


August 22, 2007

MANCHESTER, NEW HAMPSHIRE — In his first public statement on the subject, Democratic presidential candidate Barack Obama pledged to end medical marijuana raids in the 12 states that have medical marijuana laws Tuesday at a campaign event during a Nashua Pride minor league baseball game.

The Illinois senator's statement means all eight Democratic candidates have now voiced support for the 12 states with medical marijuana laws. Republican candidates Rep. Ron Paul (Texas), Rep. Tom Tancredo (Colo.) and former Wisconsin Gov. Tommy Thompson have all vowed to end medical marijuana raids as well.

On Friday, New Mexico Gov. Bill Richardson, who signed legislation in April making his the 12th medical marijuana state, wrote to President Bush asking him to end federal raids in medical marijuana states.

"Respected physicians and government officials should not fear going to jail for acting compassionately and caring for our most vulnerable citizens," Richardson wrote. "Nor should those most vulnerable of citizens fear their government because they take the medicine they need."

Obama's pledge came as a response to a question from Nashua resident and Granite Staters for Medical Marijuana volunteer Scott Turner, who asked the senator what he would do to stop the federal government from putting seriously ill people like Turner in prison in states where medical marijuana is legal.

"I would not have the Justice Department prosecuting and raiding medical marijuana users," Obama said. "It's not a good use of our resources."

"For the first time in history, the leaders of one of our nation’s major parties have unanimously called for an end to the federal prosecution of medical marijuana patients," GSMM campaign manager Stuart Cooper, from Manchester, said. "New Hampshire voters and medical professionals effectively sent a clear message that we would not support a candidate who would arrest – rather than protect – our nation's most seriously ill citizens. Compassion and reason are finally overcoming politics and propaganda."

Federal intrusion into medical marijuana states has been on the rise this summer, with DEA raids taking place in several counties in California and Oregon. Recently, the DEA also began threatening landlords who lease space to medical marijuana dispensaries – legal under state law – with seizure of their property, a move condemned in a Los Angeles Times editorial as "a deplorable new bullying tactic."

Based in Manchester, New Hampshire, Granite Staters for Medical Marijuana is a grassroots coalition of New Hampshire patients, medical professionals and activists. GSMM is organizing during the New Hampshire presidential primary campaign to raise awareness of the need for federal action to protect medical marijuana patients. For further information, please see:

[ Post Comment ]

Comment #24 posted by FoM on August 22, 2007 at 09:59:27 PT
Some bugs don't die I read a while ago because they have built a tolerance for chlorine. Mother nature will fight back no matter how much we believe we have the upper hand.


Long hair music to me can be classical or our generation's music.

[ Post Comment ]

Comment #23 posted by Hope on August 22, 2007 at 09:49:34 PT
Chlorine is poison. It kills bad stuff...but it can kill good stuff, too.

[ Post Comment ]
Comment #22 posted by museman on August 22, 2007 at 09:48:34 PT
I'd say that about 90% of Americans do not drink from the tap. Recycled shit and piss come out of it. Bottled water is now almost a necessity.

I've been blessed to travel this country and find all the natural water sources. I've drunk from streams, creeks, wells, springs, and rivers, never getting sick. However in the last 15 years almost all of the clean sources of water have been contaminated, and I wouldn't even think of it now.

Yes chlorine is harmful. It's deadly to living organisms -that's why they use it to kill the bacteria that the sewage process didn't get out.

Our civilization is in big big trouble on so many fronts it would take more than one filled up thread to express and explain them.

[ Post Comment ]

Comment #21 posted by Hope on August 22, 2007 at 09:48:33 PT
FoM .... 19
My female intuition intuited that might be the case.

Long hair? Lol!

I do love classical music, though...and some of every kind, usually.

[ Post Comment ]

Comment #20 posted by FoM on August 22, 2007 at 09:33:41 PT
When people get condensed into small area problems with contamination are much higher. When people have chlorine in the water to kill the bad things doesn't it hurt people who drink such a powerful poison as chlorine? We drilled and have 4 deep water wells and I am so grateful. Pure water is necessary for all of us to survive.

[ Post Comment ]
Comment #19 posted by FoM on August 22, 2007 at 09:14:55 PT
I have heard that before. I guess since I really shun alcohol I just didn't get the connection.

[ Post Comment ]
Comment #18 posted by museman on August 22, 2007 at 09:14:09 PT
One of the first things I learned as a young hippy when I first found the rainbow, was that Americans are in some kind of puritanical denial of the nature of shit.

How many years of media -movies, tv, were there before someone finally included the bathroom in the scripts? And even then it is a subject of comedy -something we can laugh about but still deny, and pretend, as the saying goes that our "shit does not stink."

When coming into the rainbow there was what we referred to as 'rap 107' which informed the ignorant on the basic do's and dont's of camping with thousands of people, and the protocols of proper woods hygiene.

No 1 was "Don't shit or piss within 100 feet of the water."

Even with thousands of aware hippies walking around, there was almost always (for the first few years) somebody who could not make themselves urinate nor deficate unless it was in or near water - toilet training, albeit obviously very anal retentive.

The denial of our basic natures is exemplified in this subject, right next to sex, though sex has come a long way out of the closet -thanks to the hippies.

[ Post Comment ]

Comment #17 posted by FoM on August 22, 2007 at 09:12:17 PT
Had Enough and Everyone
I archived the article and we can post on it now. Here it is.

The Hippies Were Right All Along -- We Knew That

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Comment #16 posted by Hope on August 22, 2007 at 09:08:20 PT
Used to be...I'm sure there are other ways of saying it now...but used to be... liquor was commonly sold in half pints, pints and fifths. A fifth of what, I don't know. But a fifth of whiskey...or whatever, was something that was common in describing bottle, for liquor, sizes in this country, anyway, before the metric system got involved.

I know how big it is...but a fifth of a gallon or what? I don't know.

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Comment #15 posted by FoM on August 22, 2007 at 09:03:35 PT
Had Enough
I can archive the article and then post the link and add the old article to it. I'll do that.

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Comment #14 posted by Hope on August 22, 2007 at 09:02:11 PT
Drug residue in the water...
They've been able to test the water for impurities for years. Years ago I read that the water table was full of hormones because of birth control pills. Anti depressants...Prozac Nation...are in there, too.

The thing is, when people and animals urinate and defaecate, which they have to ... pills or not...there's hormones and disease, too that get in the sewage and the water table. People and animals excrete stuff.

It's all sort of a scare tactic to get more money. More money will cure everything. More. More. More. Give us more so we can protect you from this horrible menace. Hormones and drugs in the water!

It's there...pills or drugs or not.

God knows what micromanagement can find that the plants and cemeteries and manufacturing add to the water table. Some of it can be remedied. Some of it might not can be. I doubt it can be perfect...and that just has to be lived with as well as possible.

It just needs to be as clean as possible and we have to live with it from there. That's the way it is.

There is so much chlorine in the water in this area that people don't have to get their teeth bleached and water added to hot tubs and pools doesn't need extra chlorination at first.

My sister can't drink her city water. My mother's water system water tastes like butter. Aaargh. One of my daughter's water systems ruins light colored and white clothing. Another daughter's water system smells so often that it's scary to drink. They all live in separate areas with separate water systems.

Bottled water companies are draining some area's aquifers.

A better world? Yes and no.

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Comment #13 posted by Had Enough on August 22, 2007 at 09:02:03 PT
Hippy Thread

Is it possible to repost the article again?

If so I’m sure it will get fill right back up. It makes a good off topic thread as it ages.

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Comment #12 posted by museman on August 22, 2007 at 09:00:38 PT
Let us not forget television. It is the gateway to whatever 'reality' one wants to pretend. Milk and fantasy are good in moderation, but abuse and misuse can lead to a very unhealthy situation -take America for example-.

Cannabis on the other hand can be abused, yet other than possibly making one not want to be part of the contemporary fantasies of fad and fashion, and just go to sleep, it's harm (if any) is absolutely benign compared to television.

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Comment #11 posted by FoM on August 22, 2007 at 08:56:05 PT
You are so blunt LOL! We have a very big septic tank ( 3500 gallons ) and 600 feet of leach field. We have restrictions on the amount of land that can have that system which is required to build and it was 5 acres. We don't want our lake polluted so that's why we have this law and I appreciate it.

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Comment #10 posted by Had Enough on August 22, 2007 at 08:51:31 PT
re: #3
Me too. Same message.

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Comment #9 posted by museman on August 22, 2007 at 08:50:42 PT
hippy thread -Hope
The thread is done.

In answer to your question that I could not post on that thread;

On runruff, I can no longer provide updates, unless I get some news from him.

My usual source of info is no longer available. Circumstances which I cannot discuss publicly -out of respect to runruff - have disconnnected me from that source. Runruffs wife is going to have to do that. I have an intuitive feeling that he is going to be getting out real soon though, may be in the process as we post.

He will be getting out on parole. He may be confined to his house with an ankle bracelet, and even though the state of Oregon has allowed him medical status, I expect he will be peeing in a cup for a few years.

Sorry I have nothing more info to offer.

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Comment #8 posted by FoM on August 22, 2007 at 08:49:58 PT
I'm glad we kept that thread going that long. It has so many good comments on it.

I didn't get what you meant because I don't know much of anything about alcohol.

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Comment #7 posted by whig on August 22, 2007 at 08:47:16 PT
If Beethoven had been a Scottish composer...

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Comment #6 posted by Hope on August 22, 2007 at 08:44:33 PT
That's fine...
Just wanted to make sure you got what I was talking about.

I'm glad we kept The Hippies Were Right thread going as far as it would it would stay to the forefront somewhat.

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Comment #5 posted by whig on August 22, 2007 at 08:43:13 PT
Milk is an awful gateway drug, don't you know? Almost everyone surveyed on drug use has admitted consuming milk at some time in the past.

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Comment #4 posted by museman on August 22, 2007 at 08:38:20 PT
Makes a good case for solar outhouses, and 'watering the bushes.'

The whole idea of sewage has got to be ass-backwards, but of course so is the civilization that can't figure out any other ways to deal with their shit.

Crapping and pissing in water is just not a healthy thing for the environment. Yeah, as long as we got thousands of people all stacked together in one small geographical area, and until eco-alternatives are seriously considered, sewage is a 'necessary' thing.

I hear that the hair keeps residue of every drug, herb, or chemical that the body consumes. In the regular course of prohibition -with technology like this- it's only a matter of time before they start exuming bodies so they can claim that "all these dead people used 'marijuana', now they're dead" - so obviously by prohibition logic that is proof positive that marijuana is 'harmful.'

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Comment #3 posted by FoM on August 22, 2007 at 08:36:34 PT
I tried to answer you but I got this message. I thought we could go over 400 until this happened.

Sorry, no more space for messages...please post later

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Comment #2 posted by FoM on August 22, 2007 at 08:29:54 PT
WV: Wired Drug Informants Bill Clears
August 21, 2007

Revamped law lets police go to any judge or magistrate

CHARLESTON, W.Va. — Two decades ago, Delegate John Overington coaxed the Legislature into allowing police to use wired-for-sound undercover agents in making drug buys in response to a floodtide of traffickers pouring into the Eastern Panhandle.

Since then, the drug trade has become almost epidemic, sweeping across all of West Virginia, and a recent court edict put drug buys by police informants virtually on ice.

Complete Article:

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Comment #1 posted by FoM on August 22, 2007 at 08:22:02 PT
OT: Bush’s Iraq-Vietnam Parallel

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