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  Powell Flies Home After Terrible, Terrible Tragedy
Posted by FoM on September 11, 2001 at 12:21:40 PT
By Jonathan Wright 
Source: Reuters 

justice U.S. Secretary of State Colin Powell, vowing that terrorism would not crush America or democracy, on Monday cut short his first South American tour after massive aircraft attacks in New York and Washington.

"A terrible, terrible tragedy has befallen my nation ... once again we see terrorism, we see terrorists, people who don't believe in democracy, people who believe that with the destruction of buildings, with the murder of people, they can somehow achieve a political purpose," a somber Powell told a meeting of the Organization of American States (OAS) in Lima.

"They can destroy buildings, they can kill people, and we will be saddened by this tragedy, but they will never be allowed to kill the spirit of democracy. They cannot destroy our society. They cannot destroy our belief in the democratic way," Powell said.

Three hijacked planes crashed into the giant towers of the World Trade Center in New York, where many thousands of people work, and struck the Pentagon in Washington, plunging the United States into unprecedented chaos and panic.

President George W. Bush condemned the attack -- the most dramatic and deadly attack on the U.S. mainland in modern history -- as an "apparent terrorist attack." Early speculation about the source of the attack centered on Saudi-born dissident leader Osama Bin-Laden.

Loss of life was expected to be catastrophic from the collapse of World Trade Center towers, which both fell in a huge cloud of smoke and fire two hours after impact.

The Pentagon, the White House, the Capitol, the Supreme Court and other key government buildings were evacuated as the nation ground to a virtual halt.

"The American Spirit Will Prevail"

"You can be sure that America will deal with this tragedy in a way that brings those responsible to justice. You can be sure that, as terrible as this is for us, we will get through it because we are a strong nation, a nation that believes in itself," said Powell, who was informed of the attacks while in breakfast talks with Peruvian President Alejandro Toledo.

"You can be sure that the American spirit will prevail over this tragedy," he added.

Powell, who had been due to fly to Colombia later on Tuesday, left the OAS meeting after a hurried opening session and was due to return to Washington immediately. Reporters traveling with him said security had been stepped up noticeably.

The OAS meeting, called to adopt a charter designed to strengthen democracy in the hemisphere, began with a minute's silence, when delegates stood with their heads bowed.

Colombia's Foreign Minister Guillermo Fernandez de Soto proposed a resolution condemning the "terrorist attacks" and expressing solidarity with the people of the United States and the U.S. government.

"There are many ways to strike at democracy and terrorism is one of them," Peru's Foreign Minister Diego Garcia Sayan told reporters. Adoption of the charter was greeted with a standing ovation.

In Buenos Aires, the U.S. embassy had been evacuated, a U.S. official said.

Lima, Peru

Source: Reuters
Author: Jonathan Wright
Published: September 11, 2001
Copyright: 2001 Reuters

Related Articles:

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http://cannabisnews.com/news/thread10883.shtml

U.S. Reassesses Colombia Aid
http://cannabisnews.com/news/thread10877.shtml

Colombia: Man Without a Plan
http://cannabisnews.com/news/thread10868.shtml


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Comment #135 posted by Felonious Punk on September 14, 2001 at 23:26:58 PT:

Life Eludes Logic
Well, once again the world seems to be going to hell in a flaming ball of confusion, loss and revenge….. And it's going take allot more than a boxknife and a spork to hijack this deadly juggernaut.
I listen to President Bush on TV, like an eighth grader reading a report he neither wrote nor has any interest in, his autogenerated speech is delivered in a shifty-eyed monotone. I don't believe the man could convince me to leave a burning building much less convey the level of historic gravity appropriate to this situation nor can he manage to muster the spirit and energy needed to face this horror enveloping our nation. I feel at a loss and I don't hear any unifying voice raising above the din of rattling sabers and flying accusations.
Regardless of the outcome any revenge extracted is small payment for such monumental loss.
It just all seems like such a waste.
JG
Seattle, USA
9/01


[ Post Comment ]
 
Comment #134 posted by freedom fighter on September 14, 2001 at 16:38:58 PT
Internet Poetic Justice
What is going on? Who's really responsible?
Explosions Lets..
Fuel Unreal
woooooops This is what you get.
What a day A repost from an earlier comment
Job competition American Policy
kapt Gas prices
FoM Speak up !!
Terror..Mayhem..Tragedy..Disaster..Blame..Reprisal
Grandmother kapt..
kapt and everyone Any idea if the Doobie...
silent knives
NY Under Attack 'And the band plays on...."
Casinos I also have this strange feeling...
here we go CongressmanSuet
A question dddd...re: DICK cheney
My Thoughts Right Now this is a sad day
FoM....Very Sad
CongressmanSuet my friends...
I agree FoM...Yes I would CongressmanSuet
CongressmanSuet based on my last distinction
One more thing Thank you, FoM
sm247 Coward?
Changes Sooo...
I think you're right Patrick Zealot
No dictionary doesn't have all the answers.
Exactly, FoM...wars
Yes FoM Heavy Times
Airports lookinside and Robbie
MARTIAL LAW! Dick Cheney...
A safe flight I agree on the size,,CongressmanSuet
Rambler Good Night Everyone
freedom fighter OK Patrick, Stay home
First., Rainbow Farm, Now This! the hijacking of four planes...Good night FoM!
WORLD LAW ENFORCEMENT!!!! New Mexican
"orifices" Thanks Patrick!
ddd ---- d I agree Patrick
no exaggeration NPR isn't truly "public radio".
so many interesting comments - NPR
Yea,,,,hey??? vegas...
The Vegas Theory MDG, I missed that one.
terrorists The reason WHY it's important we speak up
As one of the posts mentioned...kapt is spookily correct..
wise words Kap...martial law
KPFA Dear Lioness
dddd..sort of like..Do an internet search for Laden AND heroin
I also have this strange feeling...Weasel Weasel
Thank You Weasel Lioness
No wonder this happened....Measured Responses
Leading with the chin...has SOME benefits responce.
Nothing to fear but fear itself More to say on the subject of fear...
I beg to differ just a little....My Response
As You Sow...firedog Just saw this on CNN
More Info from The Boston Channel Patrick
My Thoughts Right Now Right On, FoM!
terrorists vs pot growers Thanks, Dr. Russo
Thank You Paul One More Thing
Read this and comment! New Mexican New Mexican
News Brief from The Associated Press FOM: the original story:bushs' millions for Osama
No rights no life. haha
Guns Plus Planes Do Not Mix Can't shoot a gun in a plane
Question Mentioned numbers Numbers
Robbie Patrick freedom fighter
a friend...Sorry Lookinside,,,
dddd...Internet Poetic Justice

ff

[ Post Comment ]

 
Comment #133 posted by lookinside on September 13, 2001 at 04:38:03 PT:

dddd...
i was going to post a comment after this(the comment at the
end is not my own)...events here got in the way....(a 3 hour
power outage...considering circumstances, it was a bit
un-nerving...

this article is a direct ripoff of something i read in the
70s...i think it still is valid concerning the american
people...but the attitude of our government in the last 1/4
century has changed dramatically...

i'd like to see this article become something we can aspire
to again...if the society we live in can progress instead of
collapse...

i have a very bad feeling about events too...nostradamus was
no charlitan...


[ Post Comment ]

 
Comment #132 posted by dddd on September 12, 2001 at 22:01:51 PT
Sorry Lookinside,,,
..but your friends article doesnt really cut it for me.It has
its' good points,,,and I'm not trying to suggest that it's "wrong",
,,but I think it leaves alot of reality out in it's list of things that
portray Americans as an unappreciated nice good country.
..American people are mostly good,and the good ones do go
out of their way to help others around the world,,,and we should
help out around the world,because we are the richest bogarts on
the planet,and I think alot of American feel guilty when they realize
that most of the rest of the world lives in poverty,so they go out
of their way to help people in the poor countries who are hit with
natural disasters.........but;
America is also the purveyor of brutal and selfish policy around the
world..we have many nice people,but I cant go along with the suggestion
that America is getting "kicked around",like some kind,do-gooder who's
getting bullied for no reason........gimme a break...


dddd


[ Post Comment ]

 
Comment #131 posted by lookinside on September 12, 2001 at 21:09:23 PT:

a friend...
who lives a few miles from the pentagon sent this to me
today...i think it's worth reading...


> A TRIBUTE TO THE UNITED STATES
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > This, from a Canadian newspaper, is worth
> > sharing.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > America: The Good Neighbor.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Widespread but only partial news coverage was
> > given
> > > > recently to a remarkable editorial broadcast
> > from
> > > > Toronto by Gordon Sinclair, a Canadian
> > television
> > > > commentator. What follows is the full text of
> > his
> > > > trenchant remarks as printed in the
> > Congressional Record:
> > > >
> > > > "This Canadian thinks it is time to speak up
> for
> > the
> > > > Americans as the most generous and possibly
> the
> > least
> > > > appreciated people on all the earth.
> > > >
> > > > Germany, Japan and, to a lesser extent,
> Britain
> > and
> > > > Italy were lifted out of the debris of war by
> > the
> > > > Americans who poured in billions of dollars
> and
> > > > forgave other billions in debts. None of these
> > > > countries is today paying even the interest on
> > its
> > > > remaining debts to the United States.
> > > >
> > > > When France was in danger of collapsing in
> 1956,
> > > > it was the Americans who propped it up, and
> > their
> > > > reward was to be insulted and swindled on the
> > streets
> > > > of Paris. I was there. I saw it.
> > > >
> > > > When earthquakes hit distant cities, it is the
> > > > United States that hurries in to help. This
> > spring, 59
> > > > American communities were flattened by
> > tornadoes.
> > > > Nobody helped.
> > > >
> > > > The Marshall Plan and the Truman Policy pumped
> > > > billions of dollars! into discouraged
> countries.
> > Now
> > > > newspapers in those countries are writing
> about
> > the
> > > > decadent, warmongering Americans.
> > > >
> > > > I'd like to see just one of those countries
> that
> > > > is gloating over the erosion of the United
> > States
> > > > dollar build its own airplane. Does any other
> > country
> > > > in the world have a plane to equal the Boeing
> > Jumbo
> > > > Jet, the Lockheed Tri-Star, or the Douglas
> DC10?
> > > > If so, why don't they fly them? Why do all the
> > > > International lines except Russia fly American
> > Planes?
> > > >
> > > > Why does no other land on earth even consider
> > putting
> > > > a man or woman on the moon? You talk about
> > Japanese
> > > > technocracy, and you get radios. You talk
> about
> > German
> > > > technocracy, and you get automobiles.
> > > >
> > > > You talk about American technocracy, and you
> > find
> > > > men on the moon -! not once, but several times
> -
> > > > and safely home again.
> > > >
> > > > You talk about scandals, and the Americans put
> > theirs
> > > > right in the store window for everybody to
> look
> > at.
> > > > Even their draft-dodgers are not pursued and
> > hounded.
> > > > They are here on our streets, and most of
> them,
> > unless
> > > > they are breaking Canadian laws, are getting
> > American
> > > > dollars from ma and pa at home to spend here.
> > > >
> > > > When the railways of France, Germany and India
> > > > were breaking down through age, it was the
> > Americans
> > > > who rebuilt them. When the Pennsylvania
> Railroad
> > and
> > > > the New York Central went broke, nobody loaned
> > them an
> > > > old caboose. Both are still broke.
> > > >
> > > > I can name you 5000 times when the Americans
> > raced
> > > > to the help of other people in trouble. Can
> you
> > name
> > > > me even one time when someone else raced to
> the
> > > > Americans in trouble? I don't think there was
> > outside
> > > > help even during the San Francisco earthquake.
> > > >
> > > > Our neighbors have faced it alone, and I'm one
> > > > Canadian who is damned tired of hearing them
> get
> > > > kicked around. They will come out of this
> thing
> > with
> > > > their flag high. And when they do, they are
> > entitled
> > > > to thumb their nose at the lands that are
> > gloating
> > > > over their present troubles. I hope Canada is
> > not one of
> > > > those."
> > > >
> > > > Stand proud, America!
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > This is one of the best editorials that I have
> > ever
> > > > read regarding the United States. It is nice
> > that
> > > > one man realizes it. I only wish that the rest
> > of the
> > > > world would realize it. We are always blamed
> for
> > > > everything and never even get a thank you for
> > the
> > > > things we do.
> > > >
> > > > I would hope that each of you would send this
> to
> > > > as many people as you can and emphasize that
> > they
> > > > should send it to as many of their friends
> until
> > this
> > > > letter is sent to every person on the web. I
> am
> > just a
> > > > single American that has read this.
> > > >
> > > > I SURE HOPE THAT A LOT MORE READ IT SOON.



[ Post Comment ]

 
Comment #130 posted by FoM on September 12, 2001 at 19:36:57 PT
freedom fighter
Thank you freedom fighter. You are very special too. We have good people here. I feel lost not posting any news but there is a time for every season under the sun. Now is the time to focus on our world, our country and all those who have suffered the loss of a loved one. The cell phone calls to family really got to me from the planes before they crashed.

They are evacuating the Empire State Building now. A bomb threat they said. I don't like using the term World War III but maybe we all will have to get use to hearing it if my feelings turn out to be right.

[ Post Comment ]

 
Comment #129 posted by freedom fighter on September 12, 2001 at 19:23:11 PT
Patrick
The feeling is mutual. You are welcomed and I thank you too. If it was not for FoM, we would not be here so she is special gal!

The family at the CannabisNews are pretty special to me too. I too have learned so many things about the "World".

What happend yesterday, the first site I went to after I got back from work was to check on the cannabisnews. I was bit worried to hear some bad news but am relived to know that most of us are still here.

This site is a beacon light and a spokeperson of what we call Freedom. Each of you are special in your own way. I admire and respect for what you guys/gals are.

Peace be with you and your family.
\/
ff


[ Post Comment ]

 
Comment #128 posted by FoM on September 12, 2001 at 16:21:48 PT
Robbie
I'm actually second guessing myself now. I only saw those numbers one time. What was a plane doing flying around Manhattan today? I find this all so bizarre. Drug news articles have stopped. There are a few but nothing really important so I guess we all will just wait and see what happens next.

Here is a link to current news about the disaster.

http://www.newsindex.com/cgi-bin/process.cgi?query=hijackers+united+flight+93+pennsylvania+bin+laden


Red Cross Disaster Relief Fund

All of us at Amazon.com are deeply saddened by the recent tragedies in New York City, Washington, D.C., and southwestern Pennsylvania, and we extend our sympathies and condolences to those affected. You can support relief efforts by making a donation... Read more

http://s1.amazon.com/exec/varzea/paypage/PKAXFNQH7EKCX/002-1836231-8892011

[ Post Comment ]

 
Comment #127 posted by Robbie on September 12, 2001 at 16:00:08 PT
Numbers

They're probably hesitant FoM, since the numbers could be beyond 100,000.

The first thing we heard yesterday was "Typical office hours, 50,000 in each building" That does not include the 150,000 tourists that went through the towers every day, on average.

Let's hope it's much much less...but it'll be weeks before we know definitively.

[ Post Comment ]
 
Comment #126 posted by FoM on September 12, 2001 at 15:04:38 PT
Mentioned numbers
They just said between 10,000 and 20,000 people estimated dead from the WTC.

[ Post Comment ]
 
Comment #125 posted by FoM on September 12, 2001 at 14:29:04 PT
Question
Why haven't we gotten any estimates of people who could be dead? Has anyone heard any numbers for the WTC? I know they have said between 100 and 800 fatalities from the crash at the Pentagon. People must have reported a loved one missing by now. I know they don't want to jump to conclusions but it seems very slow in letting us know.

[ Post Comment ]
 
Comment #124 posted by FoM on September 12, 2001 at 14:10:32 PT
Can't shoot a gun in a plane
If you shoot a hole in a plane you will crash it. Guns and planes sure don't mix. Just my 2 cents.

[ Post Comment ]
 
Comment #123 posted by Ethan Russo, MD on September 12, 2001 at 14:04:44 PT:

Guns Plus Planes Do Not Mix
Ever heard of depressurization? One bullet in the wrong place does it and can bring down a plane. Better that one armed guard has the weapon as a deterrent, and nobody else does.

[ Post Comment ]
 
Comment #122 posted by TroutMask on September 12, 2001 at 13:57:03 PT
haha
Yeah, if everyone had guns, they'd happen almost every day without non-US terrorists.

-TM

[ Post Comment ]

 
Comment #121 posted by sm247 on September 12, 2001 at 13:54:56 PT
No rights no life.
I feel these airlines have no right stripping our citizen's of their 2nd Ammendment rights leaving them defenseless in mid-air. ACLU and the NRA should get a class action lawsuit started to end this violation of our constitution. If those Americans on those planes were carrying weapons to defend themselves this tragedy might never have happened.

[ Post Comment ]
 
Comment #120 posted by New Mexican on September 12, 2001 at 13:48:06 PT
FOM: the original story:bushs' millions for Osama
FOM: Try this:http://www.bushnews.com/attack.htm
Thanks GCW for the great links. For anyone wishing to have their daily horoscope update in these times of uncertainty, go to Astro.com and calculate your own horoscope and anyone elses' you are interested in and you will get a personalized reading for the day, week or month. The stars have all the answers, as we are a reflection of the time we are born. Events have horoscopes as well and this event does not bode well in the short run (much sufffering), but brings about positive change in the long run (end times for the status quo). Keep the faith all!


[ Post Comment ]
 
Comment #119 posted by FoM on September 12, 2001 at 13:47:27 PT
News Brief from The Associated Press
Bush Says Attacks Were 'Acts of War'

Text of Bush's statement about attacks:
http://www.bakersfield.com/24hour/politics/story/686691p-729338c.html

Source: Associated Press
Published: Wednesday September 12, 2001, 01:03:13 PM
Copyrght: 2001 Associated Press

WASHINGTON (AP) - President Bush on Wednesday condemned terrorist attacks in New York and Washington as "acts of war," and said he would immediately ask Congress for money to aid recovery efforts and bolster the nation's security.

"This will be a monumental struggle of good versus evil. But good will prevail," the president said. He said the nation was prepared to spend "whatever it takes."

Bush spoke as administration officials said evidence in Tuesday's fearsome attacks pointed to suspected terrorist Osama bin Laden.

Bush spoke as Congress returned to the Capitol and federal agencies reopened their doors for the first time since Tuesday's parallel attacks on the World Trade Center in New York and the Pentagon across the Potomac River from the nation's capital.

Bush, in the Oval Office shortly after sunrise, invited senior lawmakers to the White House for a national display of unity.

[ Post Comment ]

 
Comment #118 posted by The GCW on September 12, 2001 at 13:16:03 PT
New Mexican
This is a site that indicates what you have stated with more insight on the subject: astronomer priests etc.
http://www.aloha.net/~johnboy/magi.htg/magi.htm PLUS: http://www.aloha.net/~johnboy/star.htg/star.htm


[ Post Comment ]
 
Comment #117 posted by FoM on September 12, 2001 at 13:04:22 PT
New Mexican
I just did a search on C News and this is the only article I found.


Bush Gives Taliban $43 Million To Fight Opium

The Bush administration has given Afghanistan $43 million including $10 million for “other livelihood and food security programs,” a reference to the ruling Taliban's ban on poppy cultivation that dramatically changed the economy of the war-torn nation. The poppy is the source of opium and the crop had provided significant revenues to Afghan farmers. The aid was described as humanitarian.

In addition to being an ally in the U.S. war against drugs, the Taliban also has banned the education of girls and women. It has banned women from professions and from most outside-the-home employment, even with international relief agencies. It has banned women from seeing male doctors and it prevents women from practicing medicine.

Colin Powell, in announcing the gift, said the administration hoped that the Taliban “will act on a number of fundamental issues that separate us: their support of terrorism, their violation of internationally recognized human rights--especially their treatment of women and girls--and their refusal to resolve Afghanistan's civil war through a negotiated settlement.” He also called on other nation's to join the U.S. with “dispatch and energy.”

Source: Women's Enews
Published: May 26, 2001
Copyright: 2001 NOW Legal Defense and Education Fund
Contact: editors@womensenews.org
Website: http://www.womensenews.org/


http://cannabisnews.com/news/thread9867.shtml


[ Post Comment ]

 
Comment #116 posted by New Mexican on September 12, 2001 at 12:42:09 PT
Read this and comment!
Anybody have any doubt that we financed this assault on America: read this and weep: Bush gives Taliban $132 million to date this year!
http://www.indymedia.org/front.php3?article_id=63087&group=webcast
Ask yourself: who will benefit from this attack?
Demand that Bush step down now, as we ARE going to war and giving the benefit of the doubt to Bush gives him encouragement and he already has that from the military and the media, wall street and all law enforcement agencies. What can we do? The Anti-war, anti-bush movement is alive and well, and we need to make an all our effort to stop this madness as bush will need little or no excuse to use nukes. Really? Yes!
Nostradamus is spot on folks, as he was an astrologer first and foremost. The most exact, spiritual, scientific way to divine the motivations of God and the universe. Now hit the streets folks, and let the people know: Peace is attainable, and we're acting like Israel towards the Palestinians, and that should scare the living daylights out of us all. Start a prayer vigil tonight and spread the word. No Love, No Peace or Know Love, Know Peace!


[ Post Comment ]
 
Comment #115 posted by FoM on September 12, 2001 at 12:20:40 PT
One More Thing
I know some of you won't agree with me but I feel sorry for Giuliani. He isn't in good health and he is doing a good job and I just wanted to mention it. I actually see him with a heart. I wouldn't want his job.

[ Post Comment ]
 
Comment #114 posted by FoM on September 12, 2001 at 12:07:28 PT
Thank You Paul
Thank you. I'm so happy that Jamaica is going forward with marijuana reform. That is wonderful news.

[ Post Comment ]
 
Comment #113 posted by FoM on September 12, 2001 at 12:04:15 PT
Thanks, Dr. Russo
I'm also a pacifist but a realist too. I know that this will be very bad. I know that we will retaliate and with much devastation. I'm not emotional at all about getting even but when someone attacks your home land you must defend it or you can't survive in the eyes of the world or in the eyes of the people who believe in their country. I love my country. I love the diverse people who live here and call it home. I just don't love the drug war.


When I was very young I asked my father when was war necessary. He said when the boundaries of our country have been violated. That made sense to me. That's the only time we should go to war but I'm afraid this is the time.


[ Post Comment ]

 
Comment #112 posted by Paul Chang on September 12, 2001 at 12:02:54 PT:

terrorists vs pot growers
let me start by expressing my sympathy to the American paople, especially the families of those lost in this horrible attack.

perhaps if the government spent more of its' resources watching terrorist groups etc, and not on pot growers and users, this terrible tragedy may have been discovered and prevented.

[ Post Comment ]

 
Comment #111 posted by Ethan Russo, MD on September 12, 2001 at 11:50:00 PT:

Right On, FoM!
The internet is our big insurance against martial law and the threat against civil liberties. Make your feelings known to everyone that you can reach.

Although this has become a cliche, the Chinese pictograph for crisis contains two elements, those representing danger, but another representing opportunity.

The danger is clear. What could possibly be the opportunity? I would maintain that it is our chance to demonstrate that we have evolved to the point that we as one world can unite in opposition to terrorism and its tools.

Although I am an angry pacifist and idealist, even I have to admit that we cannot totally eliminate armed conflict. What we can achieve is some agreement between civilized nations, and a pledge to ensure that any response is measured, focused and spares the innocent.

Along the way, we must preserve our civil liberties and respect for human life. We cannot have Arab-Americans in concentration camps, and we cannot condemn a race or religion for the zealotry and mindless violence of a few. Anyone who has studied Islam will tell you that it was conceived as a faith of toleration for other ideas. The kind of fundamentalism we see today is an aberration.

[ Post Comment ]

 
Comment #110 posted by FoM on September 12, 2001 at 11:25:08 PT
My Thoughts Right Now
Today I haven't found any drug policy related news to post but if we want to keep discussing this tragedy that's a good thing. We need to talk because it will effect us all forever. If someone finds breaking news please feel free to post a link for others to read. I saw on the news that the test of the Internet's strength was stretched yesterday but it did a great job. Very little interruption. People using the Internet to talk, find loved ones etc. worked very well. The Internet is out freedom. As long as we have it there is hope.

[ Post Comment ]
 
Comment #109 posted by firedog on September 12, 2001 at 11:09:39 PT
Patrick
I don't think it's treason to voice an opinion about anything, especially legalization. I don't think anyone should stop voicing their opinion, either. And I don't think anyone needs to. I'm certainly not going to stop. If anything, this is the time to keep freedom of speech alive.

The services available just make it harder to trace a comment back to a specific IP address and name, so that if the FBI/DEA/CIA gain a lot of new powers in the next few days, it will be harder to shut down free speech and comment on this issue.

- Firedog

[ Post Comment ]

 
Comment #108 posted by FoM on September 12, 2001 at 10:10:33 PT
More Info from The Boston Channel
http://www.thebostonchannel.com/

[ Post Comment ]
 
Comment #107 posted by FoM on September 12, 2001 at 10:02:10 PT
Just saw this on CNN
http://www.whdh.com/

FBI and other law enforcement personal are at the Westin-Copley Place in the Back Bay preparing to arrest suspects that may be connected to the terrorist attacks. Stay with 7News as more becomes available.

[ Post Comment ]

 
Comment #106 posted by Patrick on September 12, 2001 at 09:57:48 PT
firedog

However, voicing my opinion to free the weed is not tantamount to treason! If it is? Just remember after I have been hung, that I was wrong and then cower in fear from your government.

It is important for us to make it clear to "our" government and the "people" that chasing and pulling pot plants from the earth is a waste of our law enforcement capability. Granted, how can we stop suicidal maniacs? no amount of money will stop these evil people. But I think it becomes more obvious after yesterday that spending billions to prevent marijuana is a waste of precious resources. We have more important things to concern ourselves with. Namely keeping a cool head nationally and rising above this terror.

[ Post Comment ]

 
Comment #105 posted by Doug on September 12, 2001 at 09:53:02 PT
As You Sow...
so Shall You Reap. This country has been sowing violence around the world for so long, that it was only a matter of time before it came back to us. Unfortunatley, most people (esp. pundits on tv) either don't know this or won't mention it in public. As so we are clueless has to why things like this happen. These events seem to come out of nowhere. And there will big a big push to find and kill whoever is responsible; this is also a golden opportunity to pass even more repressive legislation.

These are the kind of times that, with the rush of events, it becomes very easy to forget the Constitution and just "Do Something". We will have to live with the consequences of our actions for a long time. Besides internal repression, I can see external violence against someone, just to make us feel that we are still powerful. And of course the violence that we send outwards will come back to us eventually, in an every increasing crescendo. Will this finally be the time when the U.S. can get its straying allies back on board?


[ Post Comment ]

 
Comment #104 posted by Ethan Russo, MD on September 12, 2001 at 09:46:12 PT:

My Response
They will have to lock me up to shut me up. I am a patriot for true American ideals. I am a harsh critic of Amerikan excesses and distortions.

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Comment #103 posted by Silent_Observer on September 12, 2001 at 09:45:04 PT
I beg to differ just a little....
Remember that India is a democracy and has no quarrel with us except for the fact that we have for a long time supported a rogue nation which harbors terorists - Pakistan.

Remember also that China is communist in the worst way. It is very dangerous to label and entire region as being unfriendly towards us - this is part of the thinking that got us here in the first place.

We had better find out who our friends really are..

[ Post Comment ]

 
Comment #102 posted by firedog on September 12, 2001 at 09:40:15 PT
More to say on the subject of fear...
I would be considering the following things when posting messages on the Internet from now on.

There may well be a formal declaration of war today. Treason, in times of war, is punishable by death. The definition of treason is very fluid. Knowing the nature of our current government, I think that treason would be defined with a very broad stroke of paint.

I also think that the current government would consider most of what's posted here to be seditious material, even in peacetime.

There are sites that allow for anonymous posting of information, which will cloak your IP address. It may well be time to start using one if you aren't already, preferably one not located within the U.S. Granted, if they really want to find you, they can, but you don't have to make it easy.

- Firedog

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Comment #101 posted by firedog on September 12, 2001 at 09:26:51 PT
Nothing to fear but fear itself
The terrorists, whoever they are, wanted to make the country afraid. And they have succeeded, for now.

We're not all afraid of the same things, though. Some people are afraid of more terrorist attacks. As I sit writing this in the center of a major U.S. city, I can't help but feel a bit uneasy about that as well. But that doesn't scare me as much as some other things.

I'm more afraid of what the government will do in response. Some major news reporters have mentioned restrictions on civil liberties, and I'm afraid of that. Some people have mentioned martial law. I'm very afraid of that.

Some people want to go bomb Afghanistan, and I'm afraid of that. Afghanistan borders Iran, three former Soviet republics, China, and Pakistan. Pakistan has nuclear weapons. India is close by, and they have nuclear weapons too. The Pakistani government has links to the Afghani government. Pakistan hates India, India hates China, and none of them like us very much at all.

Some people are most afraid of the effects on the markets and the economy, which is something that people have been afraid of all year.

The major force of the attack yesterday was not physical, but psychological. Fear is the real enemy we have to face.

- Firedog


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Comment #100 posted by Green Collar Worker on September 12, 2001 at 09:20:46 PT
responce.
I have read all 98 comments and wish to address some of this.
Thomas Jefferson: “Hemp is of first necessity to the wealth and protection of the country.”
http://www.cannabisnews.com/news/thread10896.shtml
article quotes:
"A terrible, terrible tragedy has befallen my nation ... once again we see terrorism, we see terrorists, people who don't believe in democracy, people who believe that with the destruction of buildings, with the murder of people, they can somehow achieve a political purpose," a somber Powell told a meeting of the Organization of American States (OAS) in Lima.

"They can destroy buildings, they can kill people, and we will be saddened by this tragedy, but they will never be allowed to kill the spirit of democracy. They cannot destroy our society. They cannot destroy our belief in the democratic way," Powell said.
It is aparent that what is goose for the gander is unexceptable for the ... they don’t like it but as they crossed God’s line w/ Crosslin, they have been crossed, and there is nothing democratic about killing him, ;yet they try to make that perception of deceipt.
comment #10 by kaptainemo: They know that in times of crisis, it's easier to put through anti-Constitutional measures than it is when things are calmer, less hurried. They are waiting their chance. To put through the kind of anti-Constitutional measures that would empower them to do what they want...to us.... PLUS, what is: Macchiavellian?
comment # 15: In short, it pays sometimes to listen to your intuition. Mine says "Don't trust the government for half the distance you can spit."
#34: This is not news that is unrelevent... When Powel says what is quoted above: we are seeing the government squirm funny, for reasons that are paralell to what they have given to others... like Crosslin, like killing people in columbia, like deceipt to support caging the unfathomable amount of citizens for just using cannabis... By all accounts America has ingaged in terrorist activities directed toward our own democracy, toward our own freedom to use such a benign substance plant as cannabis. The Bible says it, (not me) that judge not for you will be dudged in the end by the same means...
#38 et al. again terrorist activities are what we have been witnessing by our own government perpetraited on its own citizens...
#49: Religious zealouts are usually one who are unable to know the Bibles true meaning yet use their deceipt for wrong, since they are failing to come to the conclusions of the Bible through the Holy Spirit of Truth... Christ only taught peace and love, never kill kill, kill... which is a sort of revealing way to see who believes in truth and who believes in lies.

#50: keep in mind it does not any longer have to be the good people that are terrorist who kill innocent ones, but that we have ingaged in terorist activities against our own brother and neighbor that we open up our selves to that wrath. It becomes aparent that when we have the favor of God we have safety, security,
#51: quote: Religion has a wonderful way of rearing its ugly head. Fact is there are 2 different kinds of religion: that is w/ and w/o the Holy Spirit. One is an ugly head: with out God, and one is with the Holy Spirit of truth, and that is never ugly, but always true. ...
#52: quote: Most all wars are based on a religious belief gone haywire; and the moderator asked me not to say that.... I was cut off from Marijuana.com, for the same and it opened my eyes to their evil... I was dissed for my belief that God gave us kaneh bosm, and it is a blessing... and that when you add the Gastapo to SWAT it = SWATSTIKA. That statement among others brought some discontent from Mar.com to the point that I am of the oppinion that marijuana.com is a place controled by cops etc... This situation along with others that occured consistantly made me sence that there was evil in charge with that site, and in control.
#53: quote: Religion and spirituality are different. Religion uses dogma to lead people. Spirituality is personal and individual enlightenment.
Realize that there is both, BUT REALIZE THAT THEN THERE IS ALSO BOTH WITH AND WITH OUT THE SPIRIT OF GOD. YOU CANNOT SERVE 2 MASTERS, AND SO BE CAREFUL NEVER TO SERVE AN EVIL MASTER. THERE ARE EVIL SPIRITS TOOOOO. When someone says they serve the spirit of God, they may even think they serve God, but may well be deceived by Satan the God of Evil, and not even know it, but they have already let in a bit of evil bad seed and it IS being nurished and it grows. That is not the same as realy truely serving God, which as far as Christ is concerned, (the one who has the receipt for our purchase), there is only to be compassion, pease, love etc. There is NO ALTERNATIVE. We are surving God, Christ God and the Holy Spirit of Truth to stay grasped by God and continue grasping God therough the Holy Spirit of Truth. By the way: This is ONLY possable through the Holy Spirit, for I am the biggest wimp, except thrugh the Holy Spirit, for with out the HOly Spirit I am only dangerous...
#65: quote: “I predict a better, brighter world comes from the ashes of this disaster, as that is the nature of the Uni-verse”. It is written that things will be brighter after the ashes, but it will be because of God, not more terrorist.
#74: It’s not just ridding us of the bad genealogy of Bush, Bush, and Bush... but replacing him with some one who has a genuine relationship with the Holy Spirit of Truth.
#75: Another Jefferson quote: “Hemp is of first neccessity to the wealth and protection of the country.” from the back cover of Hemp for health.
Talk about paralell!!!!!!!!&!
+ quote: “Well, I was also going to mention the Rainbow Farm Murders as a waste of FBI resources, considering they could be tracking down terrorists”. (tracking down the terrorist? They WERE THE TERRORIST!!!!!&!
#89: martial law will allow the government to treat many American people like the bad guy. It will be used to further the agenda of compromised security and freedom. It is all used against us, and not for us!!!!!&!
#91: The American Gov. CIA, has a history of being drug dealers... does that mean they should be subject to the same... This bad genealogy controlls and was controlled by the Bushes...
I do not trust government. I don’t trust the police. I don’t trust the President, I don’t trust Bush... I would not be surprised to find out in the end that Bush has some control in what occurred. I believe Bush is covertly responsable. He may well be a part of this all being orchistrated. Just one of the many many implications for this insight is the verge of smiling he displayed on his 6:30 speach. He was as close to smiling as possible w/o breaking out with laughter...
#98: Doctor: How right... I may well look like Ben Ladin or like Jesus Christ. I have brown skin.


[ Post Comment ]

 
Comment #99 posted by kaptinemo on September 12, 2001 at 09:17:23 PT:

Leading with the chin...has SOME benefits
Anyone who reads history from all sides quickly learns that there is a lot more to it that what you're taught in school.

For example: Pearl Harbor. Back in early 1939, months before Germany invaded Poland and 'started' WW2, Roosevelt secertly invited British agents to set up shop and spy on US citizens who might be friendly to Axis powers. He did this because he wanted to circumvent the legal prohibitions of doing so. He also wanted to find a way to goad Germany into making the first hostile move against the US, justifying our entry into the war...and this was surely one way to do that.

He did the very same thing to Imperial Japan, but with a twist: embargoes of critical supplies needed for the Japanese effots in China. Each turn of the screw pushed the Sons of Nihon closer to taking a poke at us, until they finally did it.

In other words, Roosevelt wanted to get the US into the war, literally by hook or by crook. He chose the crook method; and as they say, the rest is (literally) history.

So what does this have to do with us? Lebanon. Syria. Iran. Iraq. Bombings, fighter shoot-downs, airliners shot out of the sky (the Vincennes incident, look it up). One step after another, one turn of the screw after another. I don't care for the Middle Eastern way of doing things; the way they treat their women, alone, is disgusting. A dog fares better...and Arabs think dogs are filthy creatures, so what do you think they treat their women like?

But we've been upsetting their apple carts, screwing with them and occasionally killing them, for the last 15 years. Just like Roosevelt did. Should we be surprised if they strike back? Just as the Japanese did? Unfortunately, we are not blameless here.

But my main point is that all of this was contrived, with malice aforethought, by our own people, our own government to provoke this kind of response. And it was wildly successful.

Roosevelt did what he did primarily to circumvent US domestic policies...and laws. W certainly is no rocket scientist, but he doesn't have to be. His handlers probably read him the equivalent of political fairy tales at night before he goes beddy-bye. Tales of how one President got away with murder...and how he can do the same thing and goad other peoples into doing what the Germans and the Japanese did. So he can appear to have clean hands.

It truly is 'the economy, stupid'. And W knows that if we don't get involved in a 'nice little war', the economy tanks.

Go here and read this. I posted this before a few days in relation to Colombia, but it's twice as relevent now:

BUSH RENAMES, EXPANDS PLAN COLOMBIA -ADDS $550 MILLION IN PREP FOR WAR
http://www.drugwar.com/cv22.htm

So there's nothing like a nice little 'incident' where thousands of Americans are slaughtered to get Joe Sixpack's blood to drop from brains to balls, stopping the thinking process and returning us to caveman ethics. And incidently, screw with the Constitution.

I repeat, these are very very dangerous times.

[ Post Comment ]

 
Comment #98 posted by Ethan Russo, MD on September 12, 2001 at 09:08:31 PT:

Measured Responses
I agree with Kap: we are in great danger here. It will start with racial profiling. If you happen to be a swarthy male of possible Middle Eastern origin, you will be targeted. But then again, you might be Colombian. There could be German remnants of Baader-Meinhof, or the Sasi (secret police). The IRA has been alleged to be in cahoots with Arab terrorists, so the brogue may give you away.

My point is: Where does it end? Everyone is a suspect.

I would re-emphasize that approaching this matter with threats of retribution will be incredibly counter-productive. An international and broad-based coalition must be enlisted and consensus reached. This is not the opportunity some governments would seek to wipe out their opposition. It may be a time for international consensus on how to prevent terror, and protect the innocent. The world as a whole will need to bring Israel and the Palestinians to a just peace.

Should we give into the urge to carpet bomb any area of the Middle East, the populace of countless nations will erupt, and nothing their nominal leaders say or do will stem that tide. Even in a declared war, it is wise to consider the enemy's rationale and motivation.

Dubya may see as the light unto nations, but it is clear that many to not perceive things thusly. Until some genuine effort is extended to understanding that fact, we have little chance in preventing terrorism.

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Comment #97 posted by Duzt on September 12, 2001 at 08:39:53 PT
No wonder this happened....
I just heard them say on the news that the Government spends around $21 million on anti-terrorism in this country. How much do we spend fighting drugs within our own country? Many billion more. Our government has to take some of the blame for this. They should have seen this coming, if it turns out to have been Bin Laden, it will be even worse because he said he was going to do something like this. Our government needs to get it's priorties straight. We aren't safe in this country. There are way too many people pissed off at us, whether justified or not, it's scary. They aren't pissed off (for the most part) at American people, they are pissed at our governmnent and if things don't change, these things will get worse before they get better.

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Comment #96 posted by kaptinemo on September 12, 2001 at 08:36:17 PT:

Lioness
I know that I sound buggy on this subject, but I did not have the time to fully explain in my last post:

Under martial law, the normal legal requirement of habeas corpus - "body of evidence" - is thrown out the window. No evidence, no case, right? There must be evidence for a case to be built against you. Not so under martial law; they can hold you for as long as they want, with no legal requirement to let you go. No dependence upon evidence at all; you just look crosseyed at 'em and you're screwed.

No Constitutional right to a 'speedy trial' by your peers; your case is adjudicated in a military court. And do you believe for a single moment that an accused doper will get a fair trial under such a politically charged milieu? When, with the weakening of the Posse Comitatus laws, they are already judge, jury and executioner? (Recall Esequiel Hernandez; his 'trial' was concluded not with a court of law but a 'battlefield', and his sentence wasn't ushered in with a judge's gavel but a sniper's bullet.)

No bail, no lawyers to help you, zero, zip, nada, nothing. It's an anti's wet dream. This is why martial law is so dangerous to civil liberties, AND MUST NOT BE ALLOWED TO BE IMPLEMENTED.

We're already half-way there with forfeiture; the antis would just love to take it to the next step and essentially 'forfeit' your arse.

[ Post Comment ]

 
Comment #95 posted by dddd on September 12, 2001 at 08:06:29 PT
Thank You Weasel
..I found that quote to be remarkably astounding!...dddd

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Comment #94 posted by FoM on September 12, 2001 at 08:02:06 PT
Weasel
Very Interesting.

"In the year of the new century and nine months, from the sky will come a great King of Terror...The sky will burn at fourty-five degrees. Fire approaches the great new city..." "In the City of God there will be a great thunder, Two brothers torn apart by Chaos, while the fortress endures, the great leader will succumb. The third great war will begin when the big city is burning."


Prophecy is a fascinating issue and open to debate but I'm not surprised by these events. Saddened but not surprised.


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Comment #93 posted by Patrick on September 12, 2001 at 07:54:46 PT
Weasel
"In the year of the new century and nine months, from the sky will come a great King of Terror...The sky will burn at fourty-five degrees. Fire approaches the great new city..." "In the City of God there will be a great thunder, Two brothers torn apart by Chaos, while the fortress endures, the great leader will succumb. The third great war will begin when the big city is burning."

Very interesting tying Nostradamus to this tragedy. A. I don't think New York can be considered the City of God. But the 9 months and terror from the SKY and two brothers/towers torn apart? strangeindeed


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Comment #92 posted by Weasel on September 12, 2001 at 07:37:54 PT
I also have this strange feeling...
so "CongressmanSuet" you where asking about a Nostradamus quote to go with yesterdays events. Well here it is.......

"In the year of the new century and nine months, from the sky will come a great King of Terror...The sky will burn at fourty-five degrees. Fire approaches the great new city..." "In the City of God there will be a great thunder, Two brothers torn apart by Chaos, while the fortress endures, the great leader will succumb. The third great war will begin when the big city is burning."

~ Nostradamus 1654



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Comment #91 posted by Juan Costo on September 12, 2001 at 07:18:02 PT
Do an internet search for Laden AND heroin
Osama Bin Laden does indeed profit from the drug trade, as do the FARC, KLA, ETA and IRA. Ending global drug prohibition would make the world a safer place. Right now any extremist with an agenda and the willingness to break the law can rake in the obscene profits to be made from the illegal drug trade use them to finance terrorist activities.

It wouldn't surprise me if this tragedy is used as an excuse to intensify the drug war. Prohibitionists are notorious weasels. But people are speaking up these days, so it won't be easy for them to continue using the drug war's collateral damage as an excuse for increased funding. If and when they do try and pull a fast one it's our job to paint them as the dangerous imbeciles they are.

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Comment #90 posted by Silent_Observer on September 12, 2001 at 07:03:56 PT
dddd..sort of like..
Pakistan?

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Comment #89 posted by dddd on September 12, 2001 at 06:58:46 PT
Dear Lioness
..I guess I would define martial law,,,as a special time,
when a ruler,or government makes a declaration ,,saying
that lawlessness is so widespread,or things are so confused,
that the military and law enfocement is given the power
to restore "order",by any means necessary.It's kinda like
saying that the countrys military is now the law enforcer
for all citizens,,and it gives the military the power to treat
the populace as "subjects"....armed troops roam the streets,
and that sort of thing.....
..that's probably an incomplete explanation,,but martial law
is not a good sign for the country,or it's ruling powers,,,,

peace...dddd

[ Post Comment ]

 
Comment #88 posted by Robbie on September 12, 2001 at 05:40:29 PT
KPFA

I can't stress enough that KPFA is still rooted to freedom of speech and expression. If you want an unbiased source of news (maybe a little to the left) check them out.

They're beginning coverage at 6A PDT of the events in our country. Trust me, they arent KPFK, KPFT, WPFW, or WBAI.

Stream 1 Real 20kbps
http://radio.transbay.net:7070/ramgen/kpfa.ra

Stream 2 mp3 24kbps
http://aud-one.kpfa.org:8000/


[ Post Comment ]
 
Comment #87 posted by the lioness on September 12, 2001 at 05:34:03 PT
martial law
Please disregard my ignorance and explain to me what are the fears associated with martial law and what does it entail?

[ Post Comment ]
 
Comment #86 posted by dddd on September 12, 2001 at 04:55:00 PT
wise words Kap...
..and I was reminded about how your predictions are even
more likely,when you consider the general flavoring of the
coverage by ALL the major networks..........
...my favorite rant is also furthered,,when you take a step
back,,and think about how the news of this has been covered..there
is only one perspective,and it's very difficult to recognize until you
really consider what a "free press" is,and what the difference would
be if we had an actual non-corporate owned ,nationally availiable source
of unbiased news in the public interest,,,but unbeknownst to most,all the
major media is owned,and spouting out the same way of looking at the
world to the sheeple,,and it's not easy to see,,it's made to appear like
the way the news defines the world,is the normal standard way of
defining the world....I hate to beat up my old media nag again,,but not
too many people take me seriously on this fanatical rant,,and I guess I
cant blame them..........

on a brighter,more basic,and coherent note,,,I will quote my Uncle Fred.
When things are really bad,,he says;

"well....Things could be more fucked"......this is a crude,yet true saying.


dddd


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Comment #85 posted by Silent_Observer on September 12, 2001 at 04:53:28 PT
kapt is spookily correct..
This is a very real possibility - the more I think about it, the more I'm convinced it WILL happen..

[ Post Comment ]
 
Comment #84 posted by Silent_Observer on September 12, 2001 at 04:51:01 PT
As one of the posts mentioned...
what bothers me a little now is the fact that it may not be totally inconeivable that these may have been homegrown (pardon the bad pun) terrorists.

Didn't we jump to the same conclusion once before? Are we so sure that EVERYBODY applauded Tim McVeigh's execution? Especially all the media surrounding it?

Just a thought...

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Comment #83 posted by kaptinemo on September 12, 2001 at 04:43:45 PT:

The reason WHY it's important we speak up
I fear that with the (whether justified or not makes little difference at this stage) attachment of the attacks to Osama bin Ladin, some not necessarily bright boy in Congress or in the Executive Branch will find a linkage to the drug trade.

Being the opportunistic wonks that they are, these sleaze will then begin to demand even more money for 'counter-narcotics' operations...which will be slipshodedly welded onto 'national security' concerns. Given the mood of the country right now, people are not thinking clearly. They will go for what ever seems like a good idea; the 'spooked sheep' principle in action, remember? If someone looks as if they have a plan, regardless of its' merits - or outright foolhardiness - the temptation will be to take the ball and run with it. And the DrugWar, bloody screaming failure that it is, will be be even more aggressively prosecuted....against us. Voices in opposition to the DrugWar will be seen, not as harmless whackos, but elements dangerous to national security. Elements to be forcibly suppreseed, as socialists, conscientous objectors and other dissenters were during World Wars One and Two.

We must make sure that this 'linkage' is not allowed to remain nascent in the minds of the wonks. The future survival of the movement is dependant upon it. That's why we must speak out against any diminution of our Constitutional rights

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Comment #82 posted by jacksplace58 on September 12, 2001 at 04:17:23 PT
terrorists
I have just one question,..Why is it that when a group of people fighting for what they believe is right, using any means that they can are called terrorists and are condemned for "killing civilians" but when our government does the same thing it's called "collateral damage"?
Is it because the guerilla's can't afford a stealth bomber so they have to commandeer whatever is available.

WHen the weak fight a bully they have to use a ball bat and treachery just to survive.

I do not condone violence of any kind but I can also see the desperation that would lead to such an attack,if you want to see the sitcom version of what has happened just check out the Isreali, palistinian thing going on.
You shoot at a guy with your tank and all he has is gasoline and a bottle.........an old racers saying,.."It's an outlaw track,.you run what you brung"


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Comment #81 posted by kaptinemo on September 12, 2001 at 04:16:13 PT:

MDG, I missed that one.
"This is, of course, in response to Congressman spouting (plus Tom Brokaw) that "we have too much freedom in this country, and people are using the Constitution as a weapon against us."

This is what I was talking about; the groundwork being laid for the declaration of 'national emergency' which would allow the coke-addled likes of W to declare martial law...just for the 'duration', of course.

You can almost here them in their false, folksy banter:

"You're a good Germ-...uh, I mean, 'good American, aintcha? (Bloody hell, almost let that one slip; have to be very careful, they're not all dim-witted sheep out there...) I mean, 's all for the good of da cunt-ree, right? So what if yuh give up a few Constitutional rights? It's all to save the chil-drun, right? An' it's only for a little bit; we'll give 'em back to you when the emergency's oh-vuh. O'course, we don't know when that'll be.

This is what I mean by being on guard. That Congresscritter is in the same bed as the people who (though I satrize them) are actually hoping to let this monster out of the cage, just to see how far they can get. Remember my comment on spooked sheep?

LookInside has the right idea; it's just the kind of thing that I meant we should be doing, all of us. Let the USG know that we aren't all 'sheeple'. And that we're wise to them and their Sneaky Pete ways. And that we won't stand for any further 'stampeding' on their part.

Take from one who's been studying the scruffulous underbelly of the American government for two decades: they will try; this is just too 'good' an opportunity to let pass by.

[ Post Comment ]

 
Comment #80 posted by dddd on September 12, 2001 at 03:06:14 PT
The Vegas Theory
".... you'll go home with one of steve wynn's picassos.",,,,I dont know
if you've been there much,,or maybe you're lucky,,but I've never even
come close to going home with a Picasso,,I usually go home without
any pictures,,especially green ex-presidents pictures in my wallet...I go home,,after panhanding gas money.

....and,speakin' of cash
I just had a dreadful thought,,
,,,Imagine the shock of times to come,

and dubya gets re-elected,,

and a new ten dollar bill is issued,,,and it has dubyas picture on it!,,,,what a freekin nitemare! dddd

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Comment #79 posted by Lehder on September 12, 2001 at 02:52:05 PT
vegas...
is the capitol, u.s. and world. and the lights may well be going out again, this time for good. the whole city is going to go bankrupt. all those new hotels are unpaid for. i'll bet you will be able to get a room dirt cheap, and if you're prudent with your gambling, you'll go home with one of steve wynn's picassos.



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Comment #78 posted by dddd on September 12, 2001 at 02:21:10 PT
Yea,,,,hey???
wonder why they didnt hit Las Vegas?

or if they did,,what would that mean?How would we interpret that?....I'l bet alot more people would be really pissed,,I mean,,that would be a real low blow....

...I've been thinking that it would make sense to move the
nations capitol to Vegas,,it would make sense somehow,,,
either that,,or create the WSA,Western States of America,,and have Vegas
as the capitol.........


dddd


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Comment #77 posted by dddd on September 12, 2001 at 02:14:02 PT
NPR
National Propaganda Radio

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Comment #76 posted by Lehder on September 12, 2001 at 02:03:31 PT
so many interesting comments -
"And where were the FBI? On the WEST Coast at an anti-terrorist convention or something like that. Shut down the FBI, as they have committed grave dereliction of duty
and treason. Yes, treason. While wasting taxpayers hard earned cash, they fiddle (preparations are made to profit from the burning of Rome) and talk of hemp and cannabis prohibition."- New Mexican
-------
Last night i saw a news blurb - congress standing up spontaneously and singing 'god bless america'. i think i will not comment on this at all.
----
las vegas- i wondered if the casinos had been shut down and then thought - nah. so thanks for confirming to whoever mentioned that. last time i was there i asked around if gaming had *ever* been stopped, even for a half hour, like when kennedy got shot, i suggested. nah... the closest they ever came, they said, was when sammy davis died - the lights were turned out for thirty seconds.

the whole governemnt should resign in disgrace.

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Comment #75 posted by MDG on September 12, 2001 at 01:49:33 PT
NPR isn't truly "public radio".
While trying to make a comment on-air on NPR tonight, I was mysteriously "disconnected" after expressing my desire to read the Thomas Jefferson quote "A society that will trade freedom for security will lose both, and deserve neither" to the call-screener. Then, I was met with him again after numerous attempts, only to be on hold for an hour then told, "Mike from San Diego? We've just ended our calls for the show. Sorry to keep you on hold." I laughed and said, "Why am I not surprised?" Of course, I heard the "click" after that.

It is not out of the realm of possibility that these people were on hold even longer than I, but having screened calls for radio stations before, I know how easy it is for the director/host to "pick and choose" the calls he wants. The ones I heard while on hold were blubbering people calling for retaliation, so they would certainly be more dramatic. (I'm not saying that "blubbering" is bad, since it's completely understandable and expected.)

But, I just wanted to read a quote by Thomas Jefferson. This is, of course, in response to Congressman spouting (plus Tom Brokaw) that "we have too much freedom in this country, and people are using the Constitution as a weapon against us."

Well, I was also going to mention the Rainbow Farm Murders as a waste of FBI resources, considering they could be tracking down terrorists.

I'll try again.

[ Post Comment ]

 
Comment #74 posted by Lehder on September 12, 2001 at 01:30:15 PT
no exaggeration
"Anyone who might have thought about taking an illicit substance with them on a plane better nix that idea right now. They will be, in fact, checking your orifices (thats just an exaggeration....I think)" -Robbie

The sensors I've often spoken about have already been installed in some of the bigger airports. They do check orifices automatically,"nonintrusively", and in various ways. Now they'll be everywhere and will have public acceptance. But really, this is a tiny tiny thing now, perhaps the authorities will wise up and realize mj is not the problem. But who the hell wants to get on an airplane now anyway? who wants to work in a big office building?
--------
The paper said the attacks provided an occasion for the United States and other countries
to ponder their foreign policy.

http://us.news2.yimg.com/f/42/31/7m/dailynews.yahoo.com/h/nm/20010912/wl/attack_pakistan_newspaper_dc.html
-------
Things are going to get much stranger(already $5/gal gas, Mexican border closed), events taking a momentum of their own now: chaos, where tiny changes in initial conditions lead to radically different outcomes. Let's hope Americans prove capable of some kind of discussion and that we do not degenerate into dictatorship. Probably the protests planned for 9/29 in D.C. will be prohibited and when the marchers show up anyway will be condemned and attacked. we'll see, i hope they're allowed, covered and provoke discussion. George Bush really ought to just step down, it's all way over his head.


[ Post Comment ]

 
Comment #73 posted by dddd on September 12, 2001 at 00:50:08 PT
I agree Patrick
Not that I dont find New Mexicans hint at incendiary conspiracy attractive,,,,
,,the symetrical collapse of the towers is logically explained with the
following simplified explanation.........
..to put it crudely,,imagine the infrastructure of the 110 story tower,,each
floor is made of a stout piece of cardboard,,and the upright supports between
the floors are toothpicks,,,when one or two floors toothpicks are compromised,
and the floors above begin to collapse on the ones beneath,it causes a certain
engineering principle to come into play,,,may brain is too shot to recall the term,
I think ity ends in "...ability",,,,anyway,,once a couple of floors toothpicks
give out,,then the cardboard tends to fall flatly on the floor below,,and the reason
that the collapse occurs in such a symetrical way,is because,,as each floor is smashed
by the one above it,,the structure of the floors beneath are still intact,and structurally
symetrical,,hence the linear collapse....

I dont blame you New Mexican,for the apparently suspicious looking collapse of
the towers,,but I dont think there was any incendiary enhancement here,,but
,,I would not say the same about the Oklahoma city bombing.


dddd


[ Post Comment ]

 
Comment #72 posted by Robbie on September 12, 2001 at 00:47:32 PT
ddd ---- d
re the WSA &c.

I caught Peter Jennings before he went off air for the evening. He started talking about those who would protest against the World Bank/IMF in places like Seattle, Genoa, and Quebec City. I thought, "oh great, what sort of filth will he spew now?"

He actually said (paraphrasing) "Americans need to have perspective, and realize that not everyone thinks along with the US or with the rest of the world about trade, or the Palestinians, or..."

I was impressed. I was thinking, "wow, rational sentiments coming from an Amer--. Oh, he's Canadian."

Still, a voice of rationality in a sea of right-wing gun-waving (you DONT want to watch Fox if you want to stay clear of that type of crap.)

[ Post Comment ]

 
Comment #71 posted by New Mexican on September 12, 2001 at 00:39:49 PT
Thanks Patrick!
Lets' hope you're right, a very believable explanation helps!

[ Post Comment ]
 
Comment #70 posted by dddd on September 12, 2001 at 00:18:44 PT
"orifices"
damn right Robbie.....Rambler's not that stupid.

Maybe they could have proctology students serve as interns(*)
at airport security,and they could check for pollops while they're
down there probing about!

dddd

(*)no pun intended

[ Post Comment ]

 
Comment #69 posted by Patrick on September 12, 2001 at 00:16:03 PT
New Mexican
"And now we have a supposed terrorist bombing, (how did they get those towers to implode perfectly straight down without being pre-wired or something).The engineers are baffled, news reports say."

Jet fuel burning brought those buildings down from the inside out. Did you see the people jumping out they were running from the fire/heat or were on fire themselves. Fuel burns at over 1500 F. Melted the steel as gravity pulled it down through the floors. The second tower to be hit, got hit lower than the first, and thus lost its stability first and fell first.


[ Post Comment ]

 
Comment #68 posted by dddd on September 12, 2001 at 00:11:50 PT
WORLD LAW ENFORCEMENT!!!!
...this is going to be the means to enact a whole new era of
"Law Enforcers of The World"........It's not hard to imagine
a grotesque new entity of international cops.....
..such an organization would be born from WTO/NATO/UN influences
and would be no suprize......Think about it,,such a concept becomes
somewhat feasible,and likely when you consider the bad HooDoo
surrounding the recent police attrocities in Seattle,Genoa,and elsewhere

introducing .......the "WSA"......World Security Alliance!!!!

dddd

[ Post Comment ]

 
Comment #67 posted by Robbie on September 12, 2001 at 00:11:06 PT
Good night FoM!

Rambler, I agree.

Anyone who might have thought about taking an illicit substance with them on a plane better nix that idea right now. They will be, in fact, checking your orifices (thats just an exaggeration....I think)



[ Post Comment ]

 
Comment #66 posted by Patrick on September 12, 2001 at 00:06:30 PT
the hijacking of four planes...
at once! I'll stay home for now thanks. Safety? That's one of excuses for the DEA spending millions of dollars pulling up our little plants. Cause they want us to feel and be safe. Harmful little plants need to be destroyed lets start a war on drugs. Priorities in law enforcement? 20 billion to stop drugs. Billions for a missile shield. And a passenger jetplane full of fuel crashes into a building. Make that 4 jetplanes. Terror? yeah i am feeling a little terrorized tonight. Sorry if I cannot feel your optimism about airline safety.

[ Post Comment ]
 
Comment #65 posted by New Mexican on September 12, 2001 at 00:01:50 PT
First., Rainbow Farm, Now This!
'One thing leads to another' as the Fixx would sing! Rainbow Farm, completely hushed up, covered up, ignored and dismissed. What a huge event it was and then....Johnson debates Hutchinson and destroys a prohibitionist. All within a week. The revolution is officially here, in its' new format of course. 'Meet the new boss, same as the old boss' the Who would sing! Son of Bush, CIA Director currently calling the shots, but do you ever here anything about this man in the shadows?
And now we have a supposed terrorist bombing, (how did they get those towers to implode perfectly straight down without being pre-wired or something).The engineers are baffled, news reports say.
And where were the FBI? On the WEST Coast at an anti-terrorist convention or something like that. Shut down the FBI, as they have committed grave dereliction of duty and treason. Yes, treason. While wasting taxpayers hard earned cash, they fiddle (preparations are made to profit from the burning of Rome) and talk of hemp and cannabis prohibition.
A capitalist twist on bad news being good news for the profits of the corporate, military-industrial complex. Who stands to gain from this disaster? Take a guess, and if you have any doubts' about our secret hand behind the scenes, consider the drug war scandal of the shrub administration giving Afghanistan $43 MILLION DOLLARS A MONTH BACK OR SO. To pull up plants from the ground. Thats some high paid migrant workers you're talking about. Maybe the money was spent on paying off the right people in the right places?
I wonder if will be accounted for. Lets start asking why we would do such a thing when we're being targeted by these people. Did you know the CIA has supported the Afghani government with covert assistance totaling millions or dollars? Do you care? Remember Iraq? April Glasby? The set up for Desert Storm? What country do you think you live in?
A democracy called the U.S.of A. Or a rouge nation out of control being called on it finally? I am deeply and profoundly saddened and pained by the horrible acts the terrorists' have perpetuated on the American people. But what did you expect. Remember Hiroshima, Nagasaki? Japan does. The starving of millions of Iraqi children, women and killing of surrendered soldiers by McCaffreys' orders. I think the sacrificial lambs died for the sins of our fathers and selected leader who has given the finger to the world for 9 months straight. Impeach bush and the world will be a better, safer, and a more loving, peaceful, heathier and desirable place for all! And it really is that simple. Lets do it folks for it's up to us to take the power back. The economy tanks, Newsweek reports the Supreme Court theft of the election and...whallah, WAR, WAR EVERYWHERE IS WAR, Bob Marley sings! I predict a better, brighter world comes from the ashes of this disaster, as that is the nature of the Uni-verse (one song). Register to vote and vote. Get active and off your duff, and make this a world of your greatest hopes and wishes. It's what we are here for. Peace to all, and may we wake up tomorrow with a new song of love in our hearts!




[ Post Comment ]

 
Comment #64 posted by Rambler on September 11, 2001 at 23:57:48 PT
OK Patrick, Stay home
But I dont really understand why you feel that air travel is all of a sudden,so much more unsafe than it was last week?Are you thinking that perhaps more imbalanced,suicidal terrorist zealots are going to be making a repeat of todays events,the new fad?
I think life goes on,and when your numbers up,that's it.I dont think one should assume that air travel is now the equivelent of wandering about a Colombian jungle wearing a "I Support Plan Colombia",t-shirt.


[ Post Comment ]
 
Comment #63 posted by Patrick on September 11, 2001 at 23:52:33 PT
freedom fighter
You encouraged me to register here at cannabisnews.com. Thanks. I am glad I found this website and all the people that post here. Yes even glad to read opposing viewpoints from my own. Teaches me to bite my lip and try to post without sticking my foot in my mouth. Notice I said try. I agree with what you said about Bush's comments. I hope its true that the DEA is diverted to terrorism and stops chasing pot plants too.

[ Post Comment ]
 
Comment #62 posted by FoM on September 11, 2001 at 23:49:12 PT
Good Night Everyone
I love to fly but only if my feet are on the ground. That's my humor to end this unbelievable day. Thanks Everyone!

[ Post Comment ]
 
Comment #61 posted by Patrick on September 11, 2001 at 23:40:11 PT
Rambler
I have been through international customs many a time. The world is on airplane alert! Not just the US. I have been through customs in Tel Aviv as well and let me tell you this. Search is all they know before you board on any airline there. Who wants to risk air travel now? Sheeple? Perhaps so. But not me, no way, nada, zip, zilch no way and I love to fly.

[ Post Comment ]
 
Comment #60 posted by dddd on September 11, 2001 at 23:32:48 PT
I agree on the size,,CongressmanSuet
...but my original statement is also true;

"Dick Cheney is one of the most dangerous assholes in the world,.."


d
d
d
d


[ Post Comment ]

 
Comment #59 posted by Rambler on September 11, 2001 at 23:28:07 PT
A safe flight
Quite the contrary Patrick.Tomorrow would probably be a very safe day for air travel.Even if you dont know everyone on board,you can be sure that they have been thoroughly screened,and probed.
I wouldnt fly tomorrow either,but not because I dont know everyone on the plane,I just dont like people looking up my ass for possible weapons.
From now on,your going to have to be sniffed,x-rayed,interviewed,questioned BEFORE you get on the plane.If you've ever gone through customs after an international flight,then you know what to expect before you get on any flight from now on.


[ Post Comment ]
 
Comment #58 posted by CongressmanSuet on September 11, 2001 at 23:23:43 PT
Dick Cheney...

is one of the biggest assholes in the world, AMEN!!!


[ Post Comment ]
 
Comment #57 posted by freedom fighter on September 11, 2001 at 23:21:58 PT
MARTIAL LAW!
I hope that Cnews fans are all allright..

I wondered if it is possible to create a situation where one does not have to declare MARTIAL LAW.

Like for example, noone can fly out of any airports. Is that an element of a martial law? They said it would be resume tmw at 12 oclock noon. But who really knows what tmw may bring. No one have delcare Martial Law yet. But, hmmmm?

Stock markets down at Asia are crashing down big time as of now. I am afraid that is not a good news for the "Econcomy".
We never had to close the stock exchange in our 200 years of history in America.

I "heard" the news since 7am MST this morning. Just lucky to have a partner who was listening to the radio. And boy, his ears were sure glued to the radio. Told me what was going on. At first, I was like "what?", when he told me a plane crashed into Trade Tower. I went on doing my thing not even really know what exactly have occured until my partner really explained to me. Boy, I really did not feel like working but just to head out for my home to be with my family.

All day, I kept thinking that Americans have it coming. We are too cocky and think noone would dare do this to us. I feel for the dead and for those who are seeking for the love ones. But, man, we are the enemy. I kept thinking of that poster who wrote couple days ago that when he goes abroad, he would pass himself as a Canadian rather than the american. The world sure hate us for what we have became.

Is it possible that we would do what the government says without them telling us it is a Martial Law? And Why not? Consitution does not exisit anymore to me anyhow. We, the people, have used it as toliet paper to often now. Our only problem is that we just have not realize that except for the few.

I sat and watched Bush used word like Freedom and Powell like Democracky. Only good thing I heard is from Asscroft who said he would enforce Drug Enforcement Agency to get involve with this terrible crime.

I told my partner that he ought to get himself a pound of some weed. He only smiled. Going rate in my town is a 500$ for some good swhag a pound. It is possible it could cost 4 time the amount next two months.

It was announced that we are at war. But who? Ourselves? May God have mercy on us.

ff

[ Post Comment ]

 
Comment #56 posted by FoM on September 11, 2001 at 23:15:26 PT
lookinside and Robbie
You're welcome Robbie and lookinside I hope they don't turn off the Internet because I agree I think they could. They are shutting down Islamic Web sites because of so much hate mail if I read the ticker under CNN correctly.

PS: This Interactive Direct TV is nice.

[ Post Comment ]

 
Comment #55 posted by Patrick on September 11, 2001 at 23:13:38 PT
Airports
Local News reporting on the hope to open airports tomorrow. I am sorry I would not get on a plane tomorrow in this country unless I know everyone on board.

[ Post Comment ]
 
Comment #54 posted by dddd on September 11, 2001 at 23:12:44 PT
Heavy Times
...FoM..I think it's quite right and good to let the discussion
here go beyond the usual perimeters,,,after all,,this makes
Pearl Harbor look wimpy,,and from today on,,our lives are
changed.

In the next few days,,something else really big is gonna happen..
I got that same spooky feeling mentioned in previous posts.

This was indeed,,a dark day for the world,,,,visions of the
incident were like some kindof Schwartzenegger/Godzilla
movie.....I am numbed by the shock...sorry for the sick humor
,,I am not in my right mind,,,,,,I may never have been.
My sincere condolences and prayers go out to all victims of this cataclysmic episode.

...I dont mean to make fun of something that is not even close to being funny,,,and my cheap attempts at humor may be seen as inapproprite,and very tasteless to many,so dont continue if you are one to be offended by my typically irreverant foolish attempted levity.

>>warning>> stop reading now if you are sensitive to insensitive,careless,sick humor....<<<

CongressmanSuet...I think perhaps the fourth jets homing device
was set for Dicks hi-tech bionic pacemaker computer implant
,,and luckily for Dick,,he took it in this morning to have its hard
drive re-partitioned,,or maybe the guy in the fourth jet hit the wrong
white house,
Dick Cheney is one of the most dangerous assholes in the world,,if
you wanna know what a cowardly terrorist is,,Dick might be the
one to look at,,,

yet more careless rantings from the old Hippie

...seeing the shrubs blatantly scripted speech to the
nation,,made me do a world class powerbarf in my mind.,,
,,..I thought that I had emptied my mental stomach of all
the partially digested groceries,,,but then,I saw a replay
of the performance,,and I went into further involuntary
purging and dry-heaving,,,,if I was physically ralphing,,I might
have upchucked my colon!...the speech was about as genuine
as a 5 dollar Rolex....dddd



[ Post Comment ]

 
Comment #53 posted by Patrick on September 11, 2001 at 23:07:53 PT
Yes FoM
Religion and spirituality are different.

Religion uses dogma to lead people. Spirituality is personal and individual enlightenment.

[ Post Comment ]

 
Comment #52 posted by FoM on September 11, 2001 at 23:04:06 PT
wars
Most all wars are based on a religious belief gone haywire I think. I remember trying to say that in an MSNBC News chat years ago. I was trying to tie the drug war and the Christian Coalition together, and the moderator asked me not to say that. I stopped because I respect a moderator but I knew I really felt that way.

Religion and spirituality are two whole different things in my book.

[ Post Comment ]

 
Comment #51 posted by CongressmanSuet on September 11, 2001 at 22:48:41 PT
Exactly, FoM...

Religion has a wonderful way of rearing its ugly head.


[ Post Comment ]
 
Comment #50 posted by Patrick on September 11, 2001 at 22:47:53 PT
No dictionary doesn't have all the answers.
I certainly don't either. I just "believe" that no matter what someone believes to be right, it gives them no right to take the lives of others. Taking innocent life is cowardly in "my book." That is only how I define it based on my education and the tools I have at at hand like the dictionary. It places meaning to words in english.

[ Post Comment ]
 
Comment #49 posted by FoM on September 11, 2001 at 22:43:54 PT
Zealot
I think they were religious zealots more then calling them cowards.

[ Post Comment ]
 
Comment #48 posted by FoM on September 11, 2001 at 22:41:11 PT
I think you're right Patrick
I don't know where the future will take us but Cannabis is what we really are concerned about. We can't solve all the worlds problems and maybe not even one of the worlds problems but staying focused is important. Life has smooth roads and BuMpY ones and we will get back on track really soon. I believe that writers that write about drug laws will draw a correlation between these events. It might take them a little time but I see the correlation. If they stopped spending all the energy and money chasing people who just want to be able to possess a medicinal plant and worked harder at securuty breaches maybe disasters like this wouldn't happen.

[ Post Comment ]
 
Comment #47 posted by CongressmanSuet on September 11, 2001 at 22:31:38 PT
Sooo...

The cowards killed themselves because they were timid, and had disgracefull fear? It seems the dictionary doesnt have all the answers.


[ Post Comment ]
 
Comment #46 posted by Patrick on September 11, 2001 at 22:29:08 PT
Changes
I think this event will be causing changes in all of us. Lets rally around our common cause about cannabis and remain focused as group of compassionate people who care deeply about our fellowman and show the world that marijuana is not the evil it has been made out to be. Now is the time for our voices to ring out loudest amongst all the voices that will demand change from this day forward.

[ Post Comment ]
 
Comment #45 posted by Patrick on September 11, 2001 at 22:23:06 PT
Coward?
Main Entry: cow·ard
Pronunciation: 'kau(-&)rd
Function: noun
Etymology: Middle English, from Old French coart, from coe tail, from
Latin cauda
Date: 13th century
: one who shows disgraceful fear or timidity
- coward adjective

Hijacking a plane and slamming it into a building killing yourself and taking others with you involuntarily is in my opinion an act born out of belief and "disgraceful fear." Hence cowardly, based on my understanding of the word.


[ Post Comment ]

 
Comment #44 posted by lookinside on September 11, 2001 at 22:16:01 PT:

sm247
that petition site works great...got 250 auto responses in
about 5 minutes...doubt i'll see even one personal note...

my petition:

President George W. Bush
1600 Pennsylvania Ave.
Washington, DC 20500

after today's events, i fear that our government will lash
out at the citizens of the united states...this MUST NOT HAPPEN!


drastic measures will be required to return our society to
stability and prosperity...i believe that todays terrorist
attacks are just the beginning...our government has bullied
people both at home and abroad...reprisals are inevitable
unless sanity and democracy are reinstated in the United
States...

a large minority of the people of the U.S. support outright
legalization of marijuana...a larger percentage support the
decriminalization of marijuana...
a majority support an end to the war on drugs...

i believe the U.S. government's laws and attitude toward
marijuana is illegal and unconstitutional...it is time to
focus on our place in the world and end the war on non
violent users of marijuana...our system has incarcerated
nearly 1% of it's citizens...this in itself is an indictment
of the drug laws passed by an uninformed and bullheaded
congress...

it is time for a return to constitutional principles...the
citizens will remember those who return our freedom, and
those who take it away...which are you?

frank cowsert jr.



[ Post Comment ]

 
Comment #43 posted by Robbie on September 11, 2001 at 22:15:44 PT
Thank you, FoM

The terrorist aren't cowards.

Thank you, Martha. I thought I was the only one.

It may seem amazing to Americans, but even Bin Laden may not be some terrible, evil coward...they have reasons to hate America and bomb its cities.

Does that excuse their actions? Not for one damn minute. But once in a while people have to be shown that there's another side to human beings.

A lot of us (and more the media and politicos than anyone else) like to call Bin Laden and Palestinians &c. terrorists.

Many people call them heroes and freedom fighters.

[ Post Comment ]

 
Comment #42 posted by FoM on September 11, 2001 at 22:15:15 PT
One more thing
I don't you to think that I believe that Tom and Rollie were cowards or terrorists. I wanted to make sure no one thought that I meant that because I sure don't. They died for what they believed. They didn't hurt anyone. That is not a terrorist.

[ Post Comment ]
 
Comment #41 posted by Patrick on September 11, 2001 at 22:08:20 PT
based on my last distinction
Yes the terrorists were cowards in my opinion. Tom and Rolland were courageous. They stood their ground on their home and their land even after the harassment they received. They did not drive a tractor loaded fertilizer bomb to the local city hall. That would have been an act of cowardice. They stood their ground as patriots and died for it. Today many people had no choice in the matter because of cowardice.

[ Post Comment ]
 
Comment #40 posted by Patrick on September 11, 2001 at 22:00:43 PT
CongressmanSuet
I agree with your analogy and comparison that both incidents involved groups of men dedicated/willing to die for their beliefs. No argument from me on that point. However, these two situations are so vastly different. Most importantly Tom and Rolland took nary a life in support of their beliefs. Unlike these terrorists.

[ Post Comment ]
 
Comment #39 posted by FoM on September 11, 2001 at 22:00:14 PT
Yes I would CongressmanSuet
I would die for my beliefs. Yes. I am not afraid to die. Anytime would be fine with me. I'm not crazy I just live for the present and when it is my time it will be ok.

The terrorist aren't cowards.
Tom and Rollie weren't cowards.

I'm not defending terrorism just that fact that I believe a terrorist believes he is doing the right thing and is willing to die for it. It isn't right but it isn't cowardess.

[ Post Comment ]

 
Comment #38 posted by CongressmanSuet on September 11, 2001 at 21:53:54 PT
I agree FoM...

Terrorist activities are not to be applauded. The human toll is so reprehensible to a thinking, rational person, that this destruction is incredibly abhorent,universally condemed. But I have a question for you. Are you willing to die for your beliefs? I hear of the "cowardice" of the terrorists, but I have to wonder, cowards? Im not sure that term is correct. Tom Crosslen and Rolland Rhome died for thier beliefs. Were they cowards? The people responsible for these horrific incidents are fighting for a cause they are willing to die for. I look at them in wonderment. This kind of conviction cannot be stopped by metal detectors.So religion kills another bunch of people We can only hope its over...for now.


[ Post Comment ]
 
Comment #37 posted by lookinside on September 11, 2001 at 21:46:16 PT:

my friends...
my greatest fear today had little to do with the terrorist
attacks on the east coast...i've felt for a long time that
today's events were inevitable...(the death toll will
approach that of the nuclear attacks at hiroshima and
nagasaki according to what i'm hearing and not hearing)

my fears centered around the possibility that BUSH2 would
declare marshal law and close down the internet...it is well
within his power...i'm overjoyed to find you all here and
expressing a clarity of thought sadly lacking in the media...

i firmly agree with those of you who said that this is only
the beginning...read back to our comments around january of
this year...many of us predicted that things will get worse
before they get better...i think we should have placed large
bets on that opinion...

i figured before they started talking about it that arab
militants/terrorists would be blamed for these attacks...i
think that our government wants to kill a few thousand
scapegoats very quickly to appease the anger of the peepul...

my personal theory is that the most qualified group to try
this kind of attack may be tim mcveigh's old buddies...ex
military, some with jet fighter training...american
looking...and VERY VERY PISSED...none of those last minute
phone calls from the hijacked planes mentioned(that i've
heard) arabic looking hijackers...

i think anybody that is employed by a company or agency that
draws protesters on a regular basis might want to consider
moving to the suburbs and getting a job that is extremely
uncontroversial...

did i mention i started a job today 2 miles from lawrence
livermore national laboratories? crash a jet there and a
VERY interesting array of radioactive and biological agents
would get spewed into the atmosphere...well there are only 2
of the largest internation airports on the west coast
nearby...and i'm sure the flight paths don't come with 2
miles of livermore...


[ Post Comment ]

 
Comment #36 posted by FoM on September 11, 2001 at 21:44:20 PT
CongressmanSuet
I know the next few days will be hard to figure out what to do. I will talk to people in Map staff email and ask what we should do. I really appreciate having these people to ask and get advice from and yet I can still do what I feel is right, if I believe differently, with no problem and that means so much to me. I won't jump ship doing drug policy news but I will try my best to use discretion. I hope this makes sense.

[ Post Comment ]
 
Comment #35 posted by FoM on September 11, 2001 at 21:33:23 PT
Very Sad
It is sad Patrick. I could never approve of terrorist activities. It goes against what I believe. I guess I come from an old school of thought and I doubt I'll ever change. I feel very weary tonight. I also feel sorry for the world.

Imagine
John Lennon

Imagine there's no Heaven
It's easy if you try
No Hell below us
Above us, only sky
Imagine all the people
Sharing all the world

You may say I'm a dreamer
But I'm not the only one
I hope someday you'll join us
And the world will live as one


[ Post Comment ]

 
Comment #34 posted by CongressmanSuet on September 11, 2001 at 21:23:34 PT
FoM....

This tragedy is of such a magnitude, I believe you have a duty to circumvent your normal news coverage, and include some items related. The enormity of these events calls for exceptional coverage, and no one here is gonna cry that you arent strictly reporting Cannabis related news.This will be the day we all remember[those with a conscience, anyway] as the worst day of our lives. Will that happen, probably not, we have become too self-concerned, self-important,


[ Post Comment ]
 
Comment #33 posted by Patrick on September 11, 2001 at 21:21:10 PT
this is a sad day
just sad. the whole world is sad it seems except for a few celebrations taking place by people who think this type of terror can be reason to clap and sing.

[ Post Comment ]
 
Comment #32 posted by FoM on September 11, 2001 at 21:00:21 PT
My Thoughts Right Now
I just wanted to say how I feel. I think I will be able to write it ok. The month of September has been the most unreal time. The Rainbow Farm Tragedy and now this. I am glad that we have been able to use the Internet to help us connect and share our feelings. We have grown up in the last few weeks. We are now at a threshold of a very different future. I think we will be shocked for days to come and not know what to do or how we should feel. I have no idea about doing news because when I think of what articles I should do I never thought of something like this so I'll play it by ear and will post news when it seems right if that is ok with all of you. I want you to continue using C News to talk if you want to. If you believe in prayer please do.

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Comment #31 posted by anon on September 11, 2001 at 20:59:26 PT
re: DICK cheney
He was the hijacker on the Pennsylvania flight and had a heart attack.

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Comment #30 posted by CongressmanSuet on September 11, 2001 at 20:51:13 PT
A question dddd...

Through all this, and I have been glued to my computer and the usual media culprits, and I have heard Colin Powell make statements, actually, seemingly quite heartfelt, I have watched King George read 2 minute sound bites off cards, I have heard an interview with Kissinger[sp], I have heard statements from former defense secretarys, I just heard comments fron Howard Baker, for Christsake, BUT not a peep from DICK Cheney? What do you make of that?


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Comment #29 posted by dddd on September 11, 2001 at 20:33:33 PT
CongressmanSuet
I also dont mean to be calous,or disrespectful,or make
light of the terror that occured today,,,,,but if ya dont
cry,,ya gotta laugh,,,and I wanted to thank you for the
Slim Whitman item,,,,,it was a knee slapper....dddd


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Comment #28 posted by dddd on September 11, 2001 at 20:23:42 PT
here we go
...Already,,,were hearing the usual media spinnings,,,and
a prominant one is the supposed lack of "intelligence"so that
such an attack could have been prevented.....Yes,,there is a
lack of intelligence,,and it is the intelligence of people who
suggest this could have been forseen and prevented....you
cannot have that level of info on the radicals of the world.
There is no such thing as a suidal terrorist detector for
airports.....Whoever did this,,,it only cost them the price
of a few plane ticket,,and a few makeshift knives,,and of
course,the lives of the kamakazi zealots,whos live went up
with the thousands of victims.
...Our beady eyed president,,is a totally incompetant idiot,

,,he aint got a clue,
,,or a 3 digit IQ

next we will have to witness a circus of foolish,and desperate
mandates,and careless restrictive lawmaking....we will see
massive amounts of funding for military,and law enforcement,
tossed about by incompetant lawmakers....this event will be
used as an excuse for dam near any intrusions on the Constitution,
,,,at least the ones that havn't already been made.

LAX was turned into a ghost town,,cops with shotguns everywhere,
everyone gets searched and questions,,,If a cop wants to search you
now,,all he's gotta say is,"I thought he might have been a terrorist".

If you thought we were getting to the point of a police state before
all this,,,you aint seen nuthin' yet..

dddd

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Comment #27 posted by CongressmanSuet on September 11, 2001 at 20:21:51 PT
I also have this strange feeling...

That we are going to wake up tomorrow[those of you who sleep like"normal" people]and find out we bombed Afganistan tonight. Alot of the media buzz right leads to the conclusion that if a definitive link [real or invented] can be made to Osama Bin Laden, then the country that harbors him is guilty of conspiracy and just as responsible for these acts. Humm...think we can get that 40 million in drug aid back real quick? Personally I think we can torture all the third world countrys into submission just by threatening to fly over them blasting "Slim Whitman's Greatest Hits" from giant loudspeakers.Not exactly an original thought, but in these dire times, something to consider. Im sorry if I seem callous, but Im kinda in shock, I lived most of my life in NY/NJ, and used to watch the 4th of July NYC fireworks from my window. I feel a real connection to NYC, and im stunned. I have relatives that work in Manhattan, and have touched bases and they are fine. The human toll is not someting that is really imaginable, like a dream. And lets not forget, now "We are no longer Democrats or Republicans, we are AmeriKans" Time to rally behind Alfred P. Meuman, your president, you know the one who reads off the cards to describe his "outrage" and we are PREPARED! I would bet Nostradamous had alittle blurb on this in his material....and that last plane in Pa., was that the one headed for the Supreme Court? Hummm...again.


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Comment #26 posted by J.R. Bob Dobbs on September 11, 2001 at 19:35:21 PT
Casinos
The Illinois Gaming Board shut down every casino in the state for the evening. Why Illinois and not Vegas, I do not understand...

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Comment #25 posted by CongressmanSuet on September 11, 2001 at 19:32:52 PT
'And the band plays on...."

Kap., as usual you are dead on. The opportunities are there, and human nature being what it is, will be taken. If there are no more attacks in the next few weeks, it might be possible to avert martial law. I was taken back by the lack of response by my neighbors. It was like they had watched a violent movie on TV, and it was business as usual. The footage of the members of congress in front of the Capitol building expressing unity, almost seemed surrealistic, like something out of "Invaders from Mars" To bad we cant get Jack Nicholson to play "The President" for the next few years, then we might stand a chance. Its interesting, the businesses closed, the gov. was shut down, Disneyland was closed, even the Mall of America closed, but lo and behold, the casinos in Vegas were operational! America, your the best!


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Comment #24 posted by Dr. Ganj on September 11, 2001 at 19:15:25 PT
NY Under Attack
My deep sympathy goes out to all who were affected by this tragedy. We Americans live in a free society, and trying to stop madmen from acts like this will always be difficult.
We need to rebuild those two magnificent towers, and try not to live in fear. Any other way, and they win.


Dr. Ganj


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Comment #23 posted by dddd on September 11, 2001 at 19:08:33 PT
knives
....I was not allowed to bring my Swiss army knife
on a plane at LAX last year...dddd


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Comment #22 posted by mr.greengenes on September 11, 2001 at 18:12:07 PT
silent
Good question. I would suggest urine drops for everyone boarding all aircraft, for one.

Seriously though. I remember one time when I was boarding a plane years ago, I had a set of plastic tip darts in my carryon bag, and a three inche knife that I didn't realize was in there. Guess what happened. They said I had to either give them the darts or put them in my checked baggage, but taking the knife on the plane was no problem. Everytime I've taken that bag with me, that same knife was in there and they always let me take it on. I ask you, which would you rather face,3 plastic tipped darts or a three inch knife?

Another point I'd like to bring up. Instead of preventing people from taking guns on planes, they ought to make it mandatory that any second generation american that can speak the queens, (Laura Bush), english, without a notable accent, should be issued a gun to carry during the flight. (Well maybe not a gun but perhaps a stun gun or taser or a rubber bullet gun). What towel wearing camel jockey would be willing to go up against a plane load of crazy americans thus armed?

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Comment #21 posted by just wondering... on September 11, 2001 at 18:08:20 PT
Any idea if the Doobie...
...Awards will still go on tomorrow night???
I have tix, but am kinda too scared to go.

Would appreciate an accurate response...hell, i'd even take wild guesses and random shots of advisories, i'm human!

Upon the subject, I'm a person who also believes that the fault of this Nightmare that us kids have to witness derserves to be placed on THE VOTING COMMUNITY who decide everything else!!!
Including the cops, the feds, the corp.-job holders, the stock brokers, the sports fanatics ((deny it not--This brutal event keeps MaaaADD Ca$h flowing into the Economy/Pols Pockets)), all the people who swear that they make a difference...
It's just RI DIC ULOUS that this has to occur!
Pre-Manufactured Terror or NOT!!! This Madness WILL end... somehow.
Above eastern coast skies, planes are flying...
who knows what's going on up there?

Pretty coincidental that the Mayoral Primaries have been postponed because of this massacre...whoever's responsible.

I imagine there were A LOT of dirty secrets in the buildings that DID get demolished...the Trade Center, c'MON!?!
And the Pentagon, too...

Wasn't there about to be a big audit in there sometime soon?

I believe NO NEWS ORG's...for some ODD reason, the footage seemed Too Orchestrated.
After the first damn TC tower came down, workers from the second wondered about the blast, and some even wanted to leave, but were refused exit by security!?!

Strange
Days
are Here...
people cry.


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Comment #20 posted by FoM on September 11, 2001 at 18:01:21 PT
kapt and everyone
I'm glad all is all ok with you're Doctor's husband. I can't imagine what life must be like tonight for all those who have family members missing or confirmed dead if they have started doing that yet. That's hard to take or those who are trapped and in pain and they can't get to them. That is what is bothering me right now more then who did what. I feel so bad for these people.

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Comment #19 posted by Silent_Observer on September 11, 2001 at 17:52:16 PT
kapt..
I think I may have a sense of what you're referring to, but how would one be on one's guard?

Mr. Geengenes...very good...:)

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Comment #18 posted by mr.greengenes on September 11, 2001 at 17:45:11 PT
Grandmother
To Grandmother; Good thing drugs aren't legal, or else those hijackers might have been doing PCP.

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Comment #17 posted by dddd on September 11, 2001 at 17:24:43 PT
Terror..Mayhem..Tragedy..Disaster..Blame..Reprisal
...Many good points here...

I think C Dub makes a good point in saying that much of
the blame can be put on our own government empire.I
think this was probably years in the planning,but Bush
and his idiotic cowboy arrogance has made it way easier
to hate America......and I have a feeling that the response
by the shrub club,will be just as wreckless as its foriegn
policy.

I doubt martial law will be declared,,after all,the way law
enforcement is nowdays,,martial law wouldnt be that much
of a change.

..Apart from the disastrous event itself,,,the resulting changes in
our remaining liberty will be drastic.....To quote the wise Professor Nemos
earlier post;

"But cooler, Macchiavellian heads are watching. And planning. They know that in times of crisis, it's easier to put through anti-Constitutional measures than it is when things are calmer, less hurried. They are waiting their chance. To put through the kind of anti-Constitutional measures that would empower them to do what they want...to us."

This is a biggie....this is the beginning of a strange new era....

it aint gonna be pretty.


dddd


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Comment #16 posted by sm247 on September 11, 2001 at 16:35:41 PT
Speak up !!
Use legalize.com 's petition to write more than 350 different officials at once. Speak out now is the time.

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Comment #15 posted by kaptinemo on September 11, 2001 at 16:26:22 PT:

FoM
My (top-flight, first rate) Doctor's husband was due to meet with a client in the WTC at 9AM today, but had this overwhelming urge to meet the client in his hotel room. He left the WTC 18 minutes before the strike.

He wasn't able to call her until about 230PM to let her know he was all right. The cells are so saturated with calls the system is breaking down.

In short, it pays sometimes to listen to your intuition. Mine says "Don't trust the government for half the distance you can spit."

There are all kinds of 'contingency plans' on the books dating back to Tricky Dick's days (Executive Order 11490, for one; look it up yourself and see what Uncle has in store for the whole country in a Presidentially declared 'national emergency'. This latest tragedy sure foots the bill, and some of the goons are just chomping at the bit to employ it and other little-known anti-Constitutional measures).

I say again: this is a very, very dangerous time. Be on your guard.

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Comment #14 posted by mr.greengenes on September 11, 2001 at 16:13:13 PT
Gas prices
Is there a threat of gas prices going up? I just ran out to get a six pack and put some gas in my tank, and every gas station I went past had huge lines going down the street. One station was up to 2.09 a gallon for premium. Some stations on the news were up to $3 or $4. Crazy.

I read an article in the paper about a month ago about an alternitive fuel plant, I believe it was in Penn. that takes farm and animal processing plant waste and turns it into fuel. They say there is enough of this waste in this country to more then cover all of our energy needs forever. Add hemp into that and we could be completely self sufficiant. Which means our government wouldn't have 1 of it's major reasons for sticking it's nose in other country's business (foreign oil), which means we wouldn't be pissing so many people off around the world, which means possibly we wouldn't be discussing this tragedy because there wouldn't have been a reason for anybody to do such a thing.

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Comment #13 posted by FoM on September 11, 2001 at 15:57:30 PT
kapt
Thank you Kaptinemo for your always wise words. I just found out that my son's father is ok. He just moved out of the city and his apartment was about a block from the World Trade Center. I'm relieved.

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Comment #12 posted by The Offspring on September 11, 2001 at 15:55:20 PT
American Policy
It probably is American policy that is causing terrorist attacks against your country. America is the only Country that tries to control other Countries. I agree with Kaptinemo about this being the beginning unfortunetly. I hope I'm wrong. Canada will do what it can to help our Neighbor to the south.

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Comment #11 posted by mr.greengenes on September 11, 2001 at 15:55:19 PT
Job competition
"They can destroy buildings, they can kill people, and we will be saddened by this tragedy, but they will never be allowed to kill the spirit of democracy. They cannot destroy our society. They cannot destroy our belief in the democratic way, THAT'S OUR JOB DAMMIT, AND WE WON'T LET ANY DAMN FOREIGNERS INTERFER." Powell said.


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Comment #10 posted by kaptinemo on September 11, 2001 at 15:41:35 PT:

A repost from an earlier comment
BEWARE OF MARTIAL LAW!

Folks, this is a very very dangerous time. The country is in an uproar. Cries for vengeance, for blood, are being heard on every radio and TV talk show.
And the antis are listening. And waiting.

Ever watch sheep get buzzed by low-flying aircraft? The poor blighters scatter willy-nilly, following any other sheep that looks like it knows where it's going. Or what it's doing. That's our government, right now.

But cooler, Macchiavellian heads are watching. And planning. They know that in times of crisis, it's easier to put through anti-Constitutional measures than it is when things are calmer, less hurried. They are waiting their chance. To put through the kind of anti-Constitutional measures that would empower them to do what they want...to us.

Inform your Congresscritters and Sin-a-tors, that , yes, we want justice. But not at the expense of our civil liberties. Make this very plain to them, lest they think we are asleep at the switch and not watching them with eagle eyes for slick, dirty moves.

A word to the wise from an ol' grunt who'd rubbed shoulders with intel types before: stay out of major metropolitan areas. I got a bad feeling this is only the beginning. This time it's fuel laden jets; tomorrow it could be a test tube of anthrax dropped on the pavement upwind of you. Or a spray plane full of Malathion...or worse.

I always hoped I'd be long dead before I ever saw this day. Pray for the dead and wounded...




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Comment #9 posted by FoM on September 11, 2001 at 15:37:44 PT
What a day
Explosions aren't from our doing they just said.

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Comment #8 posted by sm247 on September 11, 2001 at 15:30:14 PT
This is what you get.
Now they are blaming a security problem at the airport . NO THEY WERE TOO BUSY LOOKIN FOR PEOPLE CARRYING DRUGS !!

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Comment #7 posted by meagaindiana on September 11, 2001 at 15:21:29 PT
woooooops
duh i b4 e

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Comment #6 posted by meagaindiana on September 11, 2001 at 15:19:26 PT
Unreal
Watching the news and was thinking if our government wasn't so busy waging a war on it's own people maybe they would have saw this coming and this might not of happened. Just one more reason to stop the drug war. There was a small peice about the riot in Kalamazoo in our paper no mention of Rainbow Farm. Strange coincidence so close to Vandalia and the night of his wake.

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Comment #5 posted by FoM on September 11, 2001 at 15:08:08 PT
Fuel
We just talked to a friend in Gary, Indiana and diesel fuel jumped up 41 cents in the last two hours. This is crazy!

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Comment #4 posted by Silent_Observer on September 11, 2001 at 15:05:25 PT
Lets..
just come together one this one...

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Comment #3 posted by FoM on September 11, 2001 at 15:02:01 PT
Explosions
There are explosions going on right now in Afghanistan.

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Comment #2 posted by C Dub on September 11, 2001 at 14:55:06 PT
Who's really responsible?
While an event like this is obviously inexcusable to say the least, we have no one to blame but our own government. Yes, the people responsible should be brought to justice, but if it weren't for our own strong arm, the US can do no wrong tactics, we wouldn't have to worry about this type or targeting. American are hated around the world, not individually, but as a symbol. People hate what our government stands for, namely, long live the rich and fuck the rest of you. If anything positive can be taken from this tragedy, lets hope it opens the eyes of those who hold such ridiculous ideas about their own superiority.

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Comment #1 posted by The Offspring on September 11, 2001 at 14:51:05 PT
What is going on?
This has been an unusual day. Whoever did these acts are cowards. These people who died were innocent. The U.S. Government must be in a state of shock. Violence is not the way to solve problems(Try telling that to the FBI). Anyways I hope these people are found and punished. The Media makes it look to be international Terrorists but It could have been Domestic Terrorists. The pictures on CNN are gut wrenching. May the victims Rest in Peace. Amen.

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