cannabisnews.com: The Drug War is a Dismal Failure





The Drug War is a Dismal Failure
Posted by FoM on August 17, 2000 at 21:48:07 PT
By Fred Branfman
Source: Salon Magazine
Bill Maher calls for legalization, and says parents should drug-test their kids if they want to. A talk with the man who defines politically incorrect.Bill Maher, host of the ABC show "Politically Incorrect," might be the most politically committed and articulate comedian since Dick Gregory. He is most passionate about campaign finance reform and ending the drug war, delivering major speeches on each subject at the Los Angeles Shadow Convention. 
The passion swirling around the drug issue was the major surprise of the three-day Shadow Convention. The first day was devoted to reducing poverty, the third to campaign finance reform. But it was second day, devoted to calling for an end to the drug war, that created the most excitement. Politicians like Jesse Jackson, Reps. Charles Rangel, D-N.Y. and Maxine Waters, D-Calif., plus California Republican Rep. Tom Campbell spoke to a packed and emotional audience about the costs of the war in human terms. But Maher may well be the nation's most visible proponent for ending the drug war. He makes his case primarily on libertarian grounds, arguing that government has no right to regulate what goes on "inside people's heads." But this libertarian also feels strongly that parents should actively restrict their children's ability to use drugs, even to the point of permitting mandatory drug-testing in the schools. Salon caught up with Maher on the day after his Shadow Convention speech. The contrast between his high-decibel TV persona and his quieter intensity in a one-on-one interview was striking. What are your main objections to the drug war? Well, No. 1: It's a dismal failure. What's that definition of fanaticism? Redoubling your efforts when they're going in the wrong direction. That seems to be what's going on. Where do I begin? The tremendous hypocrisy of demonizing certain mind-altering substances, while protecting and profiting from others. Also, using the argument that something is not good for children, and then taking it away from adults. We certainly don't do that with cars, or fire, or liquor, or 1,000 other things. What ever happened with telling your kids "This isn't for you"? When I was at the Shadow Convention, I mentioned the connection between the drug war and campaign finance. The Partnership For a Drug-Free America really isn't for a drug-free America. It's a lobbying arm for the liquor and prescription drug industries. It's for an America free of the drugs that are in competition with those that are being protected legally. I assume you're for treatment instead of incarceration, medical marijuana, and eliminating minimum sentences. But would you also decriminalize marijuana, cocaine, heroin, ecstasy, mushrooms, whatever? Yes, I'm for the legalization of all drugs. Including heroin? Including heroin. Obviously, it's something you should only get with a prescription. I don't think it's something you should be able to buy on the street corner. But drugs are treated as a blanket evil, which is inherent in the term "drug war." That's our first problem, thinking of this as a war. Because a war is something that eventually is settled. Boom. And that's never going to happen. Drugs and the inclination of mankind to alter his consciousness, and to treat and medicate himself, is something that's been with us since the beginning of time and will never go away. Why do you think pot is so attractive to so many people? What does it do for folks? Well, if you're sick it's tremendously beneficent. It helps with appetite for cancer and AIDS patients, for people who can't get food down, people who don't have an appetite because of severe illness. It helps with glaucoma. I don't have any of these, but I know from people who do. My friend, Todd McCormack, who's in prison for medical marijuana, had cancer since he was a child. And marijuana is the only thing that eases his pain. What about the average person? Why do so many people in our society like to take drugs? What is the attraction? When I was in high school, one of my after-school jobs was for a liquor store. And I remember the owner of the liquor store used to say, "You know, we do good when times are bad, and we do good when times are good." Meaning you can use things to alleviate reality when things are bad, and you can use substances to heighten reality when things are good. The most interesting place you can ever travel is inside your own head. And if you've never even tried any drugs, then you're always staying home. I don't recommend it to kids. I never even drank when I was in high school. And I think that's good, because you have to get used to reality before you start twisting it. But for a government to step in and say to any of its citizens that what you do inside your own mind is illegal -- I can't think of a more private place than the inside of my head. And when they start messing with that, they are going against one of the basic ideas that this country is founded on, which is individual freedom and liberty. In your speech you talked about mandatory drug-testing for kids. How far are you willing to go on that? Would you have schools regularly test kids? I'm just saying the argument that I've heard so many times for keeping drugs illegal has to do with children, sometimes from parents as they're doing drugs themselves. And that's just not a fair argument. You worry about your kids, stop using citizens as cannon fodder in the drug war. Stop putting people in jail as the first line of defense against keeping drugs from reaching your kids. You take care of the problem. And if that means that you have to drug-test your kids at home or in school or whatever, then go ahead. I don't really care about that. As far as I'm concerned, the way I was raised, until you're 18 and you leave the house you're not equal and you shouldn't be equal. You're a child. You're not just a smaller, shorter human being. You are a lesser human being. You don't know enough to make your decision. That's why you have parents and why you're living at home with them. And they have every right to not treat you as an equal. We've lost control of our children in this country. We have coddled them and made them feel they're equal. But they're not. It's wrong to extend racism and sexism to this ageism notion, that we all are equal in opinion. We're not. The opinion of an 11-year-old doesn't count as much, and it shouldn't. People said let Elián Gonzalez decide. How insane is that? That a 6-year-old would make life decisions like that. So I have no problem with drug-testing kids. A kid is your property as a parent, and you can do anything that you want with them except abuse them. You don't like laws preventing people from smoking. But what about saying that if you want to smoke, fine, but you don't get to have health insurance because your smoking is costing the rest of us so much money and increased the cost of our health insurance? If you start pointing the finger at unhealthy things we do, where do you stop? If we're going to cut off health insurance for the smokers, let's do it for the Twinkie-eaters too, because they are doing themselves harm as well. Let's cut it off for heavy drinkers. Everyone pretty much is doing something to themselves. That's just a condition of life. You can't get through it without incurring some wear and tear on yourself in an effort to get through it. So I think it's very, very harmful to society when we start pointing fingers at each other and say, "You know what, you're costing us." Because the truth is we're all doing something. Let's all be in this together. You've said that because a few people abuse drugs, that's no reason to penalize the majority who use it responsibly. What is a responsible use of drugs? How many times a week, which drugs, etc.? It's all individual. I'm a libertarian. A libertarian means somebody who believes you can do anything you want as long as it doesn't hurt somebody else. And that's really all there is to it. As long as it doesn't hurt anybody else. Obviously you can do that when you're driving under the influence of something. For example, I've never understood the drug cocaine. I never liked it. I never really did it. I tried it, but to me it's a drug that makes people edgy and mean and sort of desperate. So I don't know what people do on cocaine. My instinct is that if you do it long enough, you're probably not going to be in good shape. But again, you can't arrest people based on what they choose to do. Do you support Nader, like Don Imus does? No, I don't at this point. A plague on both their houses? I've never been "a plague on all their houses" kind of guy. I usually think there's a better choice. This year ... it's a tough one this year. I really don't like Bush. But Ralph Nader is kind of cuckoo on free trade and that whole issue. He's with Buchanan on that -- that should tell you something. Direct Link To Above Article:http://www.salon.com/politics/feature/2000/08/18/maher/index.htmlWeb Posted: Aug. 18, 2000 Copyright: 2000 Salon.comContact: salon salonmagazine.comAddress: 22 4th Street, 16th Floor San Francisco, CA 94103Fax: (415) 645-9204Feedback: http://www.salon.com/contact/letters/Forum: http://tabletalk.salon.com/The Shadow Conventionshttp://www.shadowconventions.com/Shadow Convention 2000 News Boardhttp://homepages.go.com/~marthag1/Shadcon.htm MapInc. Articles On The Shadow Conventions:http://mapinc.org/shadow.htm CannabisNews Articles On The Shadow Conventions:http://cannabisnews.com/thcgi/search.pl?K=shadow 
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Comment #21 posted by Hempman on August 19, 2000 at 18:11:36 PT:
Now, here's what I mean by a hero!
Rainbow is a perfect example of what I mean by hero. If each and every freedom fighter did this, there would be such a flood of activity that it would bring the war on cannabis users to a total halt. In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if it brought the government grinding to a stop.There are literally tens of millions of tokers out there. If each and every one did at least this much, I have absolute confidence that the drug war would be over within a week."I am not sure what it is you would have us do to be heroes." Yes, you do, you just did not realize that you are a hero.Just think about what this hero, Rainbow, does."So I am trying to do my bit by verbally demonstrating. I harrass my pols with articles from here. I have fired McCzar several times. I have posted to Algore website. I have told Klinton he is an a**hole. I have asked the Mcczar staff to quit his immoral work. I would like to think that some of that worked since he has a great turnover. If I ever get to D.C. I will go to his office and personally express myself to the hateful people there."Not everyone can afford to be super-active. That is not needed to become heroic. Just act.Sometimes, a singular effort can be expanded. If you are thinking of going to DC, or even just your state capitol, to cuckold the bull in his pen, invite some of your friends along.This doesn't make the act any more heroic, but it does help others to become heroes, too.I write a letter every day. Sometimes, more than that. I frequently use the free fax stuff available on web sites like NORML, when I can't afford postage. A way to get free postage - use Stamps.com. They gave me $30 in free postage just for signing up! That's about a hundred letters!!Most important, keep it up, don't let up, and encourage others to do the same thing. I used the $30 free postage by taking stationary around with me to a local town event. I also had a list of local and federal politicians names and addresses. I encouraged people to pick a politician, write a letter on the spot (Even a paragraph or two is effective.) and sign the letter. Then I sealed the letters in envelopes (which I had with me) and addressed 'em on the spot. Then, I brought the letters home and printed the postage on them and mailed them off. I actually had no problem getting a hundred letters, and in fact, I willingly coughed up anothe $20 to account for the additional letters I had collected.Antoher technique I used was to inundate a politician with almost a hundred letters. I printed all of the envelopes in advance, address and postage in place. Then I took envelopes and several sample letters out on the road. I had people hand write short letters based on one or more of the samples (some people just signed a copy of the sample). Into the envelopes, seal and mail.Stamps.com. Free postage. Couldn't be easier.Just keep it going, as frequently as you can in every way you can. Keep calling every local and state politician you can. I also call at least one politician a week. If we all did that, we could tie up the switchboards of the politicians for weeks. Just imagine the millions of phone calls comming in.As for violence. I am non-violent. That does not mean I have to accept being made into a victim. Non-violence does not mean you are not a warrior. The best shogun never had to fight.Being a non-violent hero does not mean you sit and do nothing (it is clear that you are not doing nothing). Gandhi had much to say about this in his book, "Non-violence in War and Peace".About being a hero, acting on one's moral values, Gandhi said this: "It is open to a war resister to judge between the combatants and wish success to the one who has justice on his side. By so judging he is more likely to bring peace between the two than by remaining a mere spectator."He also said, "No matter that you believe that what you do does not matter. All that matters is that you act."He was successful because he did something every day. And, he encouraged his followers to do the same. It was only when he had enough good people doing the same, acting every day, when he succeeded.The thing that makes it slow, and Gandhi addresses this in "Non-violence in War and Peace", is that the good people who should act took so long to do so, and then, it was difficult to motivate them to do it constantly and consistently.So, to repeat, you are a hero. Now, encourage others to follow. Keep in mind. No matter how careful you think you are being, there are cops and politicians out there more than willing to destroy you, if they can.The most true part of what I wrote before is this: "We do not offer pay, food, nor clothing. All we have to offer is hunger for freedom, thirst for liberty, marches, battles, imprisonment and even death. Let those who love thier country with thier hearts, and not merely thier lips, follow me."I, for one, will not stop until we beat the madmen or they murder me. Won't you join me and the other heroes?Believe me, murder is a possisbility, no matter how careful you are. They murdered Peter McWilliams, as well as hundreds of other non-violent heroes. It is the desparate act of someone losing thier war.This is why doing what you do makes you a hero.
Delaware Cannabis Society
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Comment #20 posted by freedom fighter on August 19, 2000 at 15:26:32 PT
Curious as to who are 
the owners of these sniffing outfits??Easy enough for us guerrilla fighters, Instruction on how to foil these sniffing machines;Get a water bottle, fill it with the water and hemp oil etc..(do not put something that will kill folks tho)Spray on anything. Do it to a 80 year old grandma.(Sorry,grandma, I am just playing!)Thousands of folks clogging up the court system will probably teach them a lesson or two!Reforestation is sucha good idea. Coming from Colorado, there were several news items on problems with the burn-out areas of that state. \/ 
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Comment #19 posted by dddd on August 19, 2000 at 12:50:04 PT
s'bout time
Right on Lehder....Good to hear from you. My compliments on on your effective and informative commentaries...Dont stop.........dddd
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Comment #18 posted by Lehder on August 19, 2000 at 11:01:33 PT
ducking your sticks and stones, coming up for air 
 sniff sniffHere are some portable, hand-held versions of the kinds of detection sensors that I recently reviewed for you!http://www.estcal.com/Drug.htmlhttp://www.tracedetection.com I expect that both these and the permanently mounted types offered previously will in fact be installed at airports, federal offices and possibly schools. Of course I was only having some fun when I installed them at your local library and Dairy Queen too. But who knows what's next? Like everything of silicon, these remarkable devices will only get smaller and more powerful; and I will speculate that a waist-mounted version, just a wee bit more portable than these, is coveted by police like a philosopher's stone, the Hitler's-secret-weapon that will finally bust the backs of smugglers and users alike (as with so many grand plans of the war's prosecutors). If you are stopped at a DWI or license & registration checkpoint, or if you are pulled over for a traffic violation, then you are quite at the mercy of the cop armed with one of these (future) detectors. For the twists and idiotic turns of law that an ignorant public and a subverted judiciary will accept on the basis of junk science are limitless -  It must be emphasized that these devices are no inconvenience to you at all! At most, you may hear a slight sucking sound as the officer approaches your vehicle and the sensor gathers its air sample. As you chat, it will be analyzing the air and any contaminating particles that emanate from your open window. Are these devices legal? Yes!Check it out:http://www.policek9.com/Case_Law/Narcotics_Case_Law/For that belt-mounted bio-chip is the electronic equivalent of a sniffing dog. All it does is sniff. You can have no reasonable expectation of privacy in the public air space outside your vehicle; therefore, the sniffing does not constitute a search and your Fourth Amendment has been protected. Now when the red light and buzzer are activated, the same as a dog giving an alert to contraband, you, your vehicle and your home become subject to search. The positive sensor indication is sufficient grounds for obtaining a warrant, if one is needed at all. All the legal rules will be at least as favorable to enforcement as are the rules for searching with dogs. The main difference being only that every single police officer in the country will be pleased to find himself a member of the elite K9 unit and will discover an infinity of new uses and techniques for these handy gadgets - such as "daily universal testing", as advertised.  I don't need to tell anyone about the potential for *abuse* with these things, or the many ways in which false positives might occur, or the further destruction of any remaining elements of trust or social contract in our society if sniffing and testing become *routine* in our culture, unlike urine testing which is occasional but just as stupid. And I'm really jaded on this topic now and want to conclude: Rainbow, as you know, the west is on fire, over 80 major U.S. fires, hundreds of smaller ones, 350 fires in British Colombia alone. We'll be facing serious problems with mud slides, erosion and other nasty environmental consequences that I know little about and that are probably unpredictable in toto by anyone. Some form of reforestation plan is certainly needed. Just be careful on your way to the woods.     
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Comment #17 posted by Rainbow on August 19, 2000 at 08:00:44 PT
Hempman, but how
HempmanA long while back I encouraged the Lindesmith Center to hold a giant smoke-in in D.C. and other capitals. A show of civil disobediance.I am not sure what it is you would have us do to be heroes.I need to support my family and do not have the luxury of giving up my job. I found out what happens to a family when the bread winner looses a job. IBM layoffs were not nice to the devoted.So I am trying to do my bit by verbally demonstrating. I harrass my pols with articles from here. I have fired McCzar several times. I have posted to Algore website. I have told Klinton he is an a**hole. I have asked the Mcczar staff to quit his immoral work. I would like to think that some of that worked since he has a great turnover. If I ever get to D.C. I will go to his office and personally express myself to the hateful people there.So what do you suggest I do further without finding myself away from my family and in jail?I would like to suggest that everyone take a few seeds and plant them all over. Let's be the Johnny Appleseeds of Hemp. A peaceful protest.I support Gandhi's peaceful approach even though it is sloooow.Peace to you, If you are violent I can not support your efforts, but I guess we all need an IRA.CheersRainbow
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Comment #16 posted by dddd on August 19, 2000 at 05:28:20 PT
rascal
Lehder is somewhat of a rascal.Thank you Dan B.You have clarified the stuation quite nicely. I like how Lehders comment caused such a robust response. A couple of years ago,when I first started visiting here,I wreaked havoc with the following mischievious item.Someone even checked the Newport Beach phone book for a Goldbergstein. Now there is no reason for anyone to want to smoke marijuana.This is a free country,but a proper freedom,is a controlled freedom. Imagine if you will,that we allowed people to smoke anything they wanted to?I'll bet that after our children got tired of smoking pot,and all the poor sick people who have hopped aboard this,"medical marijuana"bandwagon,realize that these "blunts",didnt cure their cancer,or allow them to walk away from their wheelchairs,,Then what?Why the next thing you know,these people would be smoking sawdust,or granola,or lint. Tobacco is the only thing anyone should smoke.At least we know that it is not that good for you.All the experts like Barry McCaffrey agree,that not enough research has been done on marijuana.No one knows what may happen to these misled,sick citizens,who have been fooled into thinking that smoking marijuana makes them feel better. Maybe someday,drug companies will develop a marijuana like drug that will be able to be tested,and approved to be made legal.I dont think that people should be allowed to grow plants and smoke them. Why must everyone blame Mr. McCaffrey for their problems with illegal drugs?He knows what he's doing.He is an honest military man,who would not do anything that would make it harder to reach his goals.I think most of his critics are people who use illegal drugs,and as we know,this is against the law. Let's listen to our leaders. Blossom Goldbergstein Newport Beach,CA 
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Comment #15 posted by The Muse on August 19, 2000 at 01:59:45 PT
Home
We're grateful for FoM's planKap, 'Server, 4d, Dan and HempmanOn the web we do roamBut we call this place homeAnd I visit whenever I canRarely we read the uncoothIn this anti-prohibitionist's boothNarcs? Yeah, we smelt 'emBut everyone's welcomeIn the Distillery of the Truth
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Comment #14 posted by Dan B on August 19, 2000 at 01:04:45 PT:
I Can Vouch for Lehder
I know for certain that Lehder is extremely anti-prohibition. Remember when Martin Sheen wrote for the Los Angeles Times against Prop 36 (which will, in effect, divert those caught using drugs from jail/prison time and into mandatory treatment, which is also a violation of civil rights)? Remember the response I wrote to Martin Sheen, arguing that marijuana users would also be forced into such treatment, although every study of marijuana use shows that there are virtually no marijuana addicts (less than 1% of users smoke once per day or more), and that forcing these people into treatment is wrong? Lehder attacked me with regard to that letter because Lehder felt that it was not worded strongly enough. Lehder believed that I should have bashed Sheen upside the head with my words, rather than using the approach I did, which would have at least gotten him to read what I had to say.Yeah, I can vouch for this person's stance against the drug war. And I can tell you that this isn't the first time Lehder has revealed a less than adequate ability to understand how written words work. (Hey, you attack me, expect to be attacked in return, unless you can offer up an apology).I agree with Lehder, incidentally. The antis will stop at nothing to destroy our freedoms. And you can bet that if companies are developing the products Lehder says they are developing (I don't doubt it), they have lobbyists (read: bribers of politicians) with deep pockets ready to force through legislation that will allow use of those products. That's why it is so important to fight with every once of verbal and political ammunition we have. That's why the Shadow Conventions are so important. And that is why we should make every effort to get even the strongest supporters of the drug war to listen to what we have to say.Dan B
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Comment #13 posted by dddd on August 18, 2000 at 18:30:56 PT
P.S.
Thank you Hempman,for your eloquent comments. You are cool........dddd
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Comment #12 posted by dddd on August 18, 2000 at 18:25:29 PT
Achtung!
I gotta give der Lehder credit for launching such a controversial opinion. I am somewhat skeptical that Lehder is seriously convinced concerning his/her outlandish comments. I like the way that this sort of abrasive commentary brings out such vigorous response comments.I hope Lehder will respond to all the responses,and let everyone know if he/she is serious,or just talkin' crap...........dddd
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Comment #11 posted by freedom fighter on August 18, 2000 at 14:24:07 PT
Im sure
Lehder just wrote a politically incorrect satire. :)Lehder however is correct in stating that there are companies trying to build a perfect drug sensors.And we, the hempwarriors are going to spray our water-cannabis bottles setting the alarms off.. :))"Onward thru the Fog" 
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Comment #10 posted by observer on August 18, 2000 at 14:04:08 PT
Adults Hostage to Kids' Misunderstandings?
Bill Maher:Also, using the argument that something is not good for children, and then taking it away from adults. We certainly don't do that with cars, or fire, or liquor, or 1,000 other things. What ever happened with telling your kids "This isn't for you"? Good point.This "sending the wrong message to The Children" excuse is a lame pretext for stealing ever more traditional freedoms from adults, but it it rarely challenged for the vacuousness that it is. Why, in just this one instance, should responsible adults, in just the case of cannabis, be held hostage to the misunderstandings of a child? Because a child (we are told by vested interests, the Nalepkas of the world) can't understand that to not throw an adult in jail for an act (like sky-diving), is not the same as to condone that act, adults then must therefore be thrown in jail? All because kids may misunderstand, prohibitionists assert? Is there anyone (but prohibitionists or other vested interests) that really believe that the "send-the-wrong-message-to-The-Children" excuse for locking up adults for drugs is anything other than a fig-leaf for stealing freedoms from adults?As reformers, we need to be able to articulate better, I think, why this send-the-wrong-message-to-the-children "reason" is a false rationale for oppressing adults. I like the way Maher put it here.
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Comment #9 posted by Hempman on August 18, 2000 at 13:40:52 PT:
Yes, a slanted response
A scary story, indeed, but Lehder should make himself less ironic and more up front. His post, as it stands (many visitors would be in the same position as I) looks for all the world just as I described it. It has the unfortunate (and ironically, fortunate, as we will see) quality of being an exact replica of prohibitionist propaganda. I hope Lehder understands that he was not a target, but rather the spooky story he wove.You hit the nail on the head, though. The fact is that too many people just "go along to get along." The thing that is needed to defeat prohibition is that not one of us who have the want to end prohibition do not tolerate such non-sense for a single second.When someone raises one of the old spectres, we should have a practiced response that shows that such disinformation will not be tolerated. For instance, when anyone says that marijuana smokers are just drug addicts, one response might be to refer to the report by the Institute of Medicine that clearly states that there is no such thing.I could go on, but I will assume that most people actually know the myths. lies and dis-information, and the answers to that drivel. The thing I need to reitterate is the need for each one of us to become intolerant to cannabis intolerance, and to act as warrior ourselves.The great thing about humans is; they can learn, they can break old patterns. The more real people (both those who do and those who do not use cannabis) spread solid educational facts about cannabis, the closer to ending the war on cannabis we come.This has been my experience. I speak regularly on several local radio stations and PBS. I will debate any drug warrior out there, and have (I just debated one of Califano's lackeys - I perturbed her so much, she hung up and I had the last ten minutes of the show to myself). Every time I speak, there is always some grandmother or teacher, or policman, etc. who calls me and says that I helped them rethink thier position.They may not be able to make the paradigm shift from the previous belief system they held, but they become hungry for truth. When they hear the person I am debating quoting studies that I know as well as them (or better) and I can answer the challenge of the myths, lies, etc., they begin to question the veracity of many of the other things they've heard the prohibitionists spout. They really want to hear the truth.I know it is hard to believe, but most people _do_ want to hear the truth. The old prohibitionist ways are dying, but the prohibitionists linger over the corpse. They still think that bullying, lying, repetition of old, dead myths is still going to work. But the new freedom fighter is learning to dance on the corpse of tired prohibition. The prohibitionists are simply not ready for this, they depend on people being mired in habit (and in fact, they themselves are so mired). Therein lies thier own defeat. By becomming teachers (or at least not standing for the lies) we spread truth every day. Discussing the lies amongst ourselves (even by the spooky story method) gives us the opportunity to practice the responses. Lehder's story reminds me of my karate instructor, who used to take on the part of an attacker, so I would learn how to respond.Just as the prohibitionists try to demonize and attack us as "dopeheads". "addicts", etc. We can not be afraid to call them liars, thieves, and social deviants only looking out for thier jobs. I have personally called many prohibitionists liars on radio and TV. I challenge them to prove me wrong. Not one of them has ever been ready to answer the truth. It totally throws them when I bluntly call them liars. One can not be sued for calling someone a liar if one is prepared with the truth. If this is war (as they have declared it), then to end the war, we have to become warriors. No more reluctance. Hit them where it hurts. Don't stop going after them until they are defeated. That is why I said, "We need heroes."As my karate instructor taught me, you are not aiming for the surface of the skin. You will never inflict any damage only concentrating skin deep (in fact, you'll probably get your butt kicked!). In order to take out your opponent, you _must_ strike deep, follow through, and put everything you have into making each blow count. Only then will you prevail. That is a lesson the prohibitionists have forgotten. They think that freedom fighters are soft. Well, it is high time to make them dread thier complacence in their old ways.I hope Lehder understands that this was what I was doing. Nothing personal intended at all. He put a target out there, and I intended to destroy it (which I hope I did). I can not apologize for doing my job. If a friend jumped out of the shadows swinging at me, they might get thier butts kicked. If I took a moment to percieve who they were, it might already be too late for me.BTW, he was being a troll, or should have known. One can not assume that every visitor knows one's history.
Delaware Cannabis Society
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Comment #8 posted by fivepounder on August 18, 2000 at 11:19:58 PT
Der Lehder
Thank you Hempman for your rational response to Der Lehder. 
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Comment #7 posted by kaptinemo on August 18, 2000 at 09:56:17 PT:
Pardon me
The danger in hurling grenades while in a closed room is that you might get hit with your own blast and shrapnel.Hempman, if you have spent any time at all watching the interaction that goes on in here, you'd have learned that Lehder is no anti. Your accusation of him being a troll is unwarranted.Lehder is only commenting on something that I have also thought about: It has been my observation that the American people don't so much *support* the antis, but that they *acquiesce* to the antis. In a knee-jerk, completely unconscious way, they 'go along with the program'. Everyone is for 'clean air', 'clean water', 'low crime', (baseball, apple pie, Mom), etc. Concepts universally accepted as being good, and therefore no thought is given to them. The average American gives no more consideration as to *why* they are good than they consider how they tie the bow knots on their shoes. Pure reflex. They have been conditioned to 'hate drugs', so anything that runs contrary to that line of 'reasoning' must therefore be 'bad'.Like Pavlov's dogs, the American people have been steadily conditioned into accepting the kind of tyranny that we now have. Because they have never been presented with a 'reason' not to. After all, if you speak of drug law reform, you must necessarily be a druggie; their (teacher, doctor, policeman, judge, bureaucrat, et al) has told them so. Reformers are treated in the same way that those who refused to answer Senator McCarthy's questions by standing upon their rights as citizens - under the Constitution, no less! Judging from your website, you already have first hand knowledge of this; why castigate others who are in the same boat? You have natural allies, here. Granted, you have reason to be bitter and angry; but so do we all. Pitching verbal grenades at people who could be your friends is no way to start a relationship.
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Comment #6 posted by Hempman on August 18, 2000 at 09:02:25 PT:
Good scary story
Mr. (or is it Ms.?) Lehder spins a good yarn! This is either a troll concocting a scary story, or a prohibitionist pervert who doesn't realize when they throw away thier rights. At least you visited my web site before posting this spooky story!There are some things to notice about Der Lehder's tale. First, notice, no way to respond directly or identify Der Lehder. This goes back to my take that this is either a troll (not that this is a bad thing, maybe a scary story or two will prompt a good person into taking action against the stupidity!) or a moron prohibitionist (same thing, maybe hearing what the minority plans to do to try to build on the torture will prod a fence sitter to action).Let's look at Der Lehder's Manifesto:- Grass Roots Zero ToleranceInteresting take. Obviously will not work, since it is clear that there is no Grass Roots support for the Drug War. If there were, it'd already be a moot point. The fact is, over a third of all adults in the U. S. have used cannabis at some point. Nearly everyone knows people who do and know that it is not as dangerous as the prohibmorons like to claim (only a prohibmoron ostrich who has not read the many reports that show that cannabis is not dangerous would continue to make such unproven claims as Der Lehder has.). At one point, nearly 70% of American companies did drug testing. Now, that number has dropped to about 30% because they realized that they were loosing their best and brightest to an idiot's policy. That brings us to Manifesto point two.- Universal TestingSee the end of answer above. Der Lehder claims that public testing by implied consent will become defacto. In fact, the few tests that have been done with these programs (see the information about testing passports) have been successfully destroyed on Civil Liberties concerns. In fact, it is illegal for a store or employer to do the sort of testing suggested and only a COnstitutional amendment can change that. I worked in security at a major departments store chain and we had specific orders from the state and county to ignore any illegal activity we saw, as we _were not police and could not act on anything except shoplifting or vandalism_. We regularly found alcohol (public consuption is illegal) cocaine on shoplifters, but the cops always threw antyghing like that away, as we would not even be able to testify that we took the drugs from the shoplifter as we had no legal reason to look for drugs. It was tainted evidence, merely by the fact that we found it before the cops. The courts would trow it out as evidence for just that reason. The other prblem with this is, just like using our present bio-sensor technology (drug dogs) they can be fooled. In both directions. Easy to thwart, by commonly available masking agents. It can also be overwhelmed. At a local high school, we had the cops waiting at the doors with dogs. We had some of our commandos extract cannabis essentials from stems and seeds and distributed it. It was sprayed everywhere. The dogs thought everyone was a suspect. They thought the very lawn in front of the school was suspect. They became, in the spave of a single day, totally useless and the practice was trashed.- Mandatory Immunization for drug convictsSo, if someone is arrested for smoking a cigarrette near children they will be "immunized"? What a moron concept. Sure, let's immunize people from all the stupid thoings they do. I'm sure this idea will pass constitutional muster.- Stiffer laws and more aggressive enforcementWe have more people in prison right now for simple cannabis use than there were prisoners in the first two hundred years of American history. And they are frequently getting harsher sentences than murderers and rapists (I have a friend in prison in Delaware who will not be getting out for five more years. Meanwhile two baby murderers served less than 18 months.) Yet, the number of adults using cannabis has risen steadily. in the 70's, only about a quarter of adult America had used cannabis, now it is more than a third. More draconian laws will only hasten the revolution and maybe even cause it to escalate into violence as people refuse to be arrested for stupid laws based on false morality.In fact, the Drug War is already a lost cause. It is just a matter of time before good people get tired of seeing thier taxes spent on this foolishness.
Delaware Cannabis Society
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Comment #5 posted by Lehder on August 18, 2000 at 07:56:34 PT
Toxicum delenda est!
The war on drugs will be won by - Grass Roots Zero Tolerance - Universal Testing - Mandatory Immunization for drug convicts - Stiffer laws and more aggressive enforcementThe fact is that most Americans, given the choice, will not risk injury by remaining in the proximity of a person who may be under the influence of drugs. Ask 'em and see for yourself. Soon, all entryways to public offices and retail stores will be equipped with bio-chips that detect drugs, explosives and other dangerous substances by drawing air samples from your clothing with suction arms that brush lightly against you as you pass. It will start with airports, then federal buildings and schools. As people observe how they are no inconvenience at all, use of these beneficial devices will spread rapidly and provide many people with a new sense of security. It's not science fiction; you can look it up too, on the web and in chemical trade magazines. Other sensors exploit the thermal plume generated by body heat. The rising air column carries particles from your hair and clothing to a sensor mounted overhead. Public pressure and insurance costs will make these sensors ubiquitous. They may not be perfect, but can be set to raise an alarm at levels determined to constitute a probable cause; then no search warrant is needed since your passage through the sensor gate constitutes consent. Remember, a private establishment has the right to refuse service to anyone. Daily testing will be universal and inescapable. Treatment will include immunization: drug addiction is a disease.
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Comment #4 posted by Hempman on August 18, 2000 at 05:40:27 PT:
Great interview
But, we've been hearing from those in positions like Mr. Maher for a long time and little has changed. The problem with ending prohibition is that the ordinary person fails to consistently, loudly, persistently, insistently tell the politicians that we've had more than enough.Bill's interview is inspiring, for sure. Nonetheless, we need regular people to become heroes. We also need to recognize the real heroes, like Todd McCormick who is in solitary confinement for asking for marinol (a legal drug) to ease his suffering while he is in prison. We need to recognize heroes like Peter McWilliams, who was murdered by the prison system. He was denied cannabis despite his doctors plea for it, and even denied marinol. He choked to death on his own vomit that was caused by the medication he had to take for AIDS.We especially need to recognize the heroes in the street. We must recognize that most heroes go unrecognized. I think I may be a hero. I've been pushing for an end to cannabis prohibition since 1968. I've been assaulted numerous times by police in Delaware because, as they have told me numerous times, I refuse to just shut up. My work is solely dedicated to ending prohibition. I have given up a great career (I was the chief technician at a major planetarium to pursue freedom). I have no income, but make my way solely through money my friends and family give to me.We need the hero in the street as much as, if not more than spokespeople like Mr. Maher and Mr. Harrelson.Any ordinary person can thrive when there is prosperity and comfort. It takes a real hero to deny themselves that comfort. A real hero wakes up every day knowing that they must fight through the day and may never see any progress or reform.A hero is someone who is ordinary, maybe even a coward. But the hero refuses to give in to thier fear, refuses to be lulled by the actions of being ordinary. The hero longs for freedom from fear, the hero thirsts and aches for the possibilities and do not shrink in fear from thier responsibility to the future.A hero not only has inner morals, inner values, but defies fear and his own ordinariness. A hero knows that they are responsible to act on thier inner values.Heroes know that the future will judge them by thier acts or thier lack of acting. A hero understands the sheer weight of responsibility that comes with thier own freedom and acts.We despartely need heroes. We need people who understand that the government is insane. We need people who know that those who run the government are madmen who pursue mad, perverse ends. We need heros because they understand that the insane will try to declare them insane to shut them up, but refuse to be oppressed by all the madness.I know many ordinary people who know that we are governed by madmen. But they will never be heros, because they are already slaves to insanity. They are willing to give up thier freedom and liberty to insane men so that they can have a moment of imaginary prosperity and comfort. They have been put into such deep fear of loosing thier imagined prosperity, comfort and minimal freedom and liberties that they can not understand or even see the great possibilities if they were to take back thier lives from the madmen.I, for one, will not stop until we beat the madmen or they murder me. Won't you join me and the other heroes like Todd McCormick?We do not offer pay, food, nor clothing. All we have to offer is hunger for freedom, thirst for liberty, marches, battles, imprisonment and even death. Let those who love thier country with thier hearts, and not merely thier lips, follow me.We can, indeed, beat the drug warriors, but only by becomming warriors ourselves. Take a chance, become a hero.
Delaware Cannabis Society
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Comment #3 posted by kaptinemo on August 18, 2000 at 04:44:02 PT:
Been a fan for quite some time
One thing I've noticed about American political society is that we have gotten so polarized about so many things that too many people are afraid to openly debate differences. 'Politically Incorrect' is one of the few places where people from differing viewpoints have been able to do just that. And Maher does a very respectable job of referee on it.That's not to say that things have not been acrimonious at times. I distinctly remember the time Maher had Joe Califano from CASA on his show. Califano was being skewered by several other guests for his stance on cannabis as being a drug whose users are in need of the 'treatment' that he is very happy to provide you (for a hefty fee, of course). Califano seemed genuinely shocked that people would dare challenge his beliefs and the temperature of the discussion rose rather quickly. Each time he was asked to prove his statements that cannabis was a dangerous drug, he could only fire back that 'studies' had proven it so. (Of course, like most antis, he couldn't *name* those studies to save his life. This is tantamount to a little kid replying to a query as to his errant behavior with a flippant "Because!")Oh, yes, Maher is actually providing a desperately needed public service; where else can you get the pols and bureaucrats to sit still long enough to answer the really hard questions they've been dodging all these years?In an aside: it's good to see you back, M-O-G! I think I can say for all that we missed you. Take care. -K 
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Comment #2 posted by dddd on August 18, 2000 at 03:59:08 PT
Bill Maher
 I am also a fan of Bill Maher,and his show "Politically Incorrect".
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Comment #1 posted by military officer guy on August 17, 2000 at 22:22:16 PT
excellent article...
i like this guy...he has some excellent points...i'm going to start watchinghis show more offen...this article should be passed outto everyone you know....we can win this war...
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