cannabisnews.com: The Other Drug War - Transcripts





The Other Drug War - Transcripts
Posted by FoM on April 09, 2000 at 08:11:13 PT
Political Talk
Source: Newsweek
Is a $1.3 billion Colombia aid package—including 63 U.S.-made helicopters and other military hardware—smart policy, dirty politics, good business or a costly mistake? Newsweek's Gregory Vistica joined us for a Politics Talk on Thursday March 30. Read the transcript below.
Gregory Vistica joined Newsweek in May 1995 to cover the CIA and the intelligence community, national security and foreign affairs.Vistica has twice been nominated for the Pulitzer Prize and has won numerous local and national awards for investigative reporting. He received the George Polk Award for national reporting for exposing the Tailhook sex-abuse scandal and the subsequent failure of the Navy to investigate itself. His reporting forced the Navy to initiate widespread investigations which led to historic changes in the military. At Newsweek, he has done in-depth reporting on numerous espionage cases, racial tensions and street gangs in the military, senior officers like Gen. Colin Powell and Adm. Jeremy Boorda, computerized terrorism, NASA's space program, high-tech problems such as the Millennium Bug, and germ warfare.He is the author of Fall From Glory: The Men Who Sank the U.S. Navy (Simon & Schuster/1995), a narrative about the Navy's glamorous rise during the Reagan years and its fall into institutional corruption and disgrace in the early 1990s. The book has been used as a reference by the CIA's historical center and by a U.S. Naval Academy task force studying leadership problems at the academy.Vistica is a graduate of San Francisco State University, where he earned a bachelor's in international affairs and did graduate work in international relations, focusing on the influences of covert operations on U.S. foreign policy.Gregory Vistica: I’m Greg Vistica and I co-wrote this week’s article “The Other Drug War” about Washington’s planned $1.3 bil-lion aid package to Colombia. The issue has become a hot one here in Washington and in Colombia as the American Congress is now debating how much should the U.S. get involved. Just send money and equipment or up the number of military trainers and advisers, is just one of the topics being tossed around. Bogotá, D.C. Colombia: Do you realize how many lives will be saved in Colombia should the aid package be obtained by our country and how many more deaths there would be if the aid is denied? Gregory Vistica: It does not appear at this juncture that the aid package will be denied. Last night, the House of Representatives debated until midnight the entire budget supplemental of $13 billion which includes $1.8 billion for Colombia. It’s expected that this will pass the House this week but may run into trouble in the Senate because of its high cost overall. Also, the Sen-ate side is concerned about the time table to deliver the Black Hawks to Colombia if the aid goes forward. They may cut out these helicopters in favor of the cheaper and less effective Hueys which could be shipped there quicker. As for how many lives would be saved or lost, this is hard to quantify. Thousands of innocent people, as you know have been killed. The Colombian military has not been able to stop this or drive the FARC back. It’s a question of whether the Colombian military has the spirit to fight and win. The United States poured billions of dollars into South Vietnam’s army which most of the time cut and ran in the face of fierce fighting. The Colombian military has to prove it can win. Aid and U.S. military training assistance should help the troops there and should help lawmakers evaluate whether your army can win or not. Covington,Ga.: How long will it take for the American public to tire of politicians blathering hokum about fighting "The War On Drugs?" Why not turn the tables by legalizing drugs, taking the profits out of selling them, spend our tax revenue on prevention-treatment, eliminate corruption, reduce incarceration, lower the crime rate, and recover civil liberties? Gregory Vistica: As you know, some states are more liberal on the issue of legalizing drugs then others. California has long tried to make pot legal. In the last seven years, since the Democrats took power, the GOP has been the leading advocate of fighting the drug war through interdiction. President Clinton’s drug czar, Gen. Barry McCaffrey, was at first a staunch supporter of interdiction but then became a believer in prevention and treatment as a way of cutting demand. Most of the money that the Clinton Administration has given to the war on drugs has been for these domestic elements. Farifax, Va: The US rarely spends money without securing some financial footing or future consideration. With exception to our "altruistic" concerns of ending drug abuse, what does the US expect to gain-tangibly-? Gregory Vistica: Colombia has the longest-running democracy in Latin America. It has long been a staunch ally of the United States. It is in the middle of its first economic downturn in some 70 years. Some 350,000 people have fled. The FARC and ELN control nearly half of the country and with the para-military forces protect coca growers and production facilities. All this happening within three hours by plane from the U.S. The country is literally falling apart. And production levels of co-caine have increased dramatically from 230 metric tons in 1995 to 520 metric tons in 1999. The bulk of this still comes to the United States and ends up on American streets. This is perhaps the key reason why the U.S. wants to get involved. A secondary cause for American intervention in domestic politics. The administration was told by democratic pollsters that drugs was an “Achilles heel” for the part in the year 2000 elections. Bogota, Colombia, South America: Don't you think that giving money to Colombian army and trying to finish with drug trade without ceasing first the addicts' demand would only end up raising the death rates in Colombia? You are pouring gasoline on the fire! Gregory Vistica: Causing the deaths of innocent people is indeed a concern among lawmakers and human rights advocates. The key ques-tion is simply, will an increase in military action make things better or worse? I suppose President Andres Pastrana would argue, however, that he has tried making peace with the FARC and ELN and now is the time to increase military action. Cutting demand in the country had been a mainstay of the Clinton administration’s efforts in the war on drugs. Mechanicsburg, PA: How many billions of dollars has the US spent in the last 25 years in its attempt to control the influx of illegal drugs into this country, and how many billions more does the US expect to spend in the next 25 years for this purpose? Gregory Vistica: Off the top of my head, I don’t know the exact figure, but it certainly is in the many billions of dollars. It was the Reagan administration that really stepped up the war on drugs by making the U.S. military the leading agency in that fight. Navy ships began patrolling in an effort to catch smugglers; new radar planes and balloons were added; a whole new intelli-gence apparatus -- the Joint Task Forces -- was built and put into place. It was a really huge financial and operational in-crease then in previous years. Bush was not as strident but was nonetheless a supporter of interdiction. President Clin-ton cut funds for interdiction when he came in to office, spending more in trying to drive down consumption in the United States. Tampa, FL: Isn’t the “War on Drugs” a waste of taxpayers’ money? The continued influx of illegal drugs into American society is apparently not at all impeded by the vast amounts of government resources thrown into this conflict. Drug use in America is at least as prevalent now as it was 30 years ago, and drugs such as marijuana and cocaine have actually become more readily available and cheaper, thus further indicating the ”War on Drugs” is being lost. Perhaps another tactic is needed in dealing with this problem that we all face. As opposed to wasting billions on ineffective military-styled operations against those who use or deal in drugs, I suggest more emphasis on prevention and treatment of the real threat, drug addiction itself. Though we may never rid society of drug abuse, we might at least curb the human cost by realizing that addiction is more a disease, than a crime. Gregory Vistica: The Clinton administration's primary emphasis since it came to Washington has indeed been on the consumption end of the drug war. The majority of the money Washington has spent on combating drugs since 1992 has gone into treatment, etc. Not all in the administration were happy with this, of course, including one U.S. Ambassador to Colombia, Myles Frechette. He complained the administration was "clueless" about what was really going on in Colombia and kept the drug-fighters there on a shoe-string budget. Boone, North Carolina: What are the current economic conditions in Colombia that would lead to a rebellion by Marxist guerrillas? Gregory Vistica: The Colombian economy is in the middle of its first depression and its very bad. Unemployment is near 20 percent. The GDP hardly registers. Nearly 350,000 people have fled causing a "brain drain" and foreign investment there is said to be way down. The Marxist fighters are already rebelling and have been doing so for many years. They now control nearly 50 percent of the southern portion of the country. Northampton, MA: Since a great deal of the money might be used to fight the guerrillas of Colombia, how does the US government plan to deal with human rights issues related to the killing of more people in Colombia thanks to the "aid package"? Gregory Vistica: Senator Leahy of Vermont has been a key voice in this debate and has demanded reassurances that the aid package will not lead to human rights abuses. Whether that can be guaranteed or not, is an open question right now. Macomb,Ill.: No question, plain and simple, we have been winning the drug war since the sixties! Gregory Vistica: I don't know how you measure success in this war. Certainly cocaine production is down some 18 percent in Bolivia and Peru. But it is up substantially in Colombia. In 1995, the country produced 230 metric tons of cocaine. In 1999, that figure jumped to 520 and is expected to get higher. The bulk of this is coming into the U.S. with Europe and other Latin countries next in consumption demands. Ann Arbor, MI: Are any Congress people, or other prominent political leaders, raising vigorous objections to our present approach to Colombia? Gregory Vistica: Senator Leahey of Vermont is one. Many are concerned about human rights violations and whether the U.S. is getting sucked into a civil war. But most realize that the situation in Colombia is really bleak and therefore are likely to vote for the package. Bonn, Germany: How would you judge the role the press is playing in the 2000 election, compared to the coverage of the more "boring" 1996 election? Is there a change in the way the press treats the issues and the candidates? Gregory Vistica: The press really helped McCain keep his Straight Talk Express going. They loved the guy because he did not have any spin doctors. But McCain lost so the press was not as mighty as some believe. The press is focusing more this election on the issues. Pleasantville, NY: I agree with the aid to Colombia. However, the State Department, Human Rights Watch, and Amnesty International document troubling human rights violations by the Colombian Armed Forces. Why can't we as a nation get Colombia to try the military in civilian courts and not military courts? Gregory Vistica: That is a very good question. Colombia is a sovereign nation and it controls its own judicial system, not the United States. The U.S. has raised concerns with the Colombians about this through its diplomatic channels but it can not "interfere" much more than that. New York, NY: Do you believe Clinton's legacy is at stake on this issue, as General McCaffrey said? Gregory Vistica: McCaffrey certainly thought so, though he knew that he would have a more persuasive argument on Colombia if he appealed to the president's vanity. New York City: Where does Gore stand on the aid package and the war on drugs? Gregory Vistica: Vice President Gore has been very silent on the aid package and the war on drugs. Dover, New Hampshire: Since the Colombian military is notorious for human rights violations, and since they seem to be targeting left-wing guerillas as much as drug traffickers, is there any distinction between the proposed US aid to the Colombian military and the beinning stages of our involvement in Vietnam? Gregory Vistica: That's a good question and one that is routinely asked. The key distinction at this point, is this: the U.S. does not plan to send large numbers of troops to Colombia. There are some advisers, intelligence people and support staff. But the Colombian military will be the only force doing all the fighting -- against the FARC (Revolutionary Armed Forces of Colombia), the ELN (National Liberation Army) and the para-militaries. So far, the Colombian military has not been effective. But supporters of the aid package say money and U.S. military training may change this. This of course, brings back fears that the U.S. is on a slippery slope to involvement in a civil war. Another distinction is that Vietnam did not supply the majority of the world's cocaine. Our involvement in Vietnam was part of the cold war edict of rolling back communism. Albuquerque, NM: Will the legalization of drugs in both America and Columbia really solve the political problem in Columbia and the drug problem in America and yet create a health problem of equal and devastating proportions? Gregory Vistica: Legalizing drugs in Colombia and America is not a reality at this point. While some call for this, the primary focus now of leaders in both countries is drying up the production of cocaine and opium in Colombia through stepped up interdiction efforts. Pleasantville, NY: Is Colombia a democracy at risk? Can the FARC & ELN guerrillas take over the Republic of Colombia? Gregory Vistica: The government and the guerrillas have basically been in a stand off for some two decades. Only in recent years have the guerrillas increased their military capability to a point that they now control most of the southern portion of the country. The CIA does not think the guerrillas have the military capability to march on Bogota. However, by not controling portions of its own country, the leaders of Bogota have lost a large portion of the nation who are hearing more of the FARC's political rhetoric rather than that of President Andres Pastrana. Colombia is still the oldest democracy in Latin America and as most experts will tell you, once the seeds of democracy are sewn, it's next impossible to stamp it out. Somewhere, USA: How did the $1.3 billion package become, as you just said, $1.8 billion? Gregory Vistica: The Clinton Administration's aid package of $1.3 billion is part of a supplemental budget; The difference comes from money that had already been budgeted. The overall package comes to nearly $1.7 billon. My error if I said $1.8 billion. Bogota, Colombia: How do you think your help is going to affect the peace process? Also, why don't you do something to reduce the price of the drugs in the U.E. and all of the world? Gregory Vistica: There are many who believe that President Andres Pastrana went to far in his peace talks with the FARC. They say the president offered only carrot and not stick. U.S. officials here say that to have a credible approach to peace, it must be backed up with a strong military presence. The question is whether a stepped-up military campaign will drive the FARC to the negotiation table or not. I don't think anybody really knows. On the other hand, there is fear that an increase in military activity will only prolong the fighting and suffering in Colombia. Gregory Vistica: It looks like our time is up. Thank you for your questions. Greg Vistica Direct Link To The Above Transcripts - Thursday March 30, 2000 http://discuss.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/zforum/00/poltalk_033000.htm© Newsweek, Inc. Related Article: The Other Drug War http://www.cannabisnews.com/news/thread5209.shtml
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Comment #3 posted by dddd on April 10, 2000 at 03:59:39 PT
Dyslexia problems
Kap says;"All along this path, there are signs warning us that there is quicksand ahead. But the learned peoplein Congress and the Senate all seem to be suffering from an advanced and selective form ofdyslexia. " I guess these lawmakers have not heard about the new anti advanced selective dyslexia drug which was recently approved by the FDA. Exslexiacrom may be able to help them.Exslexiacrom is not for everyone however,they should ask their doctors if Exslexiacrom is for them.Side effects may include a return to reality and honesty.Do not take Exslexiacrom if you wish to remain in office,or are presently on the take from lobbyists.
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Comment #2 posted by kaptinemo on April 09, 2000 at 10:50:25 PT:
Sliding into the quicksand, inch by inch.
Dover, New Hampshire: Since the Colombian military is notorious for human rights violations, and since they seem to be targeting left-wing guerillas as much as drug traffickers, is there any distinction between the proposed US aid to the Colombian military and the beginning stages of our involvement in Vietnam? Gregory Vistica: That's a good question and one that is routinely asked. The key distinction at this point, is this: the U.S. does not plan to send large numbers of troops to Colombia. There are some advisers, intelligence people and support staff. But the Colombian military will be the only force doing all the fighting -- against the FARC (Revolutionary Armed Forces of Colombia), the ELN (National Liberation Army) and the para-militaries. So far, the Colombian military has not been effective. But supporters of the aid package say money and U.S. military training may change this. This of course, brings back fears that the U.S. is on a slippery slope to involvement in a civil war. Another distinction is that Vietnam did not supply the majority of the world's cocaine. Our involvement in Vietnam was part of the cold war edict of rolling back communism.History IS repeating itself; are we smart enough to learn from the pat this time?No, Vietnam did not supply the world's cocaine. But after the French Connection (Turkey - Marseielles-New York) was closed down, the Golden Triangle (Laos-Thailand-Burma) region began to supply heroin from it's poppy fields. Who ran the trade then? The Corsicans and their French Intelligence allies. The poppies were grown in fields controlled by the KMT (the KuoMinTang, our good allies the Nationalist Chinese Army) and the collected product was shipped to labs in the Mekong valley for processing into heroin. But the Union Corse and it's allies were supplanted by La Cosa Nostra - and the boys from Langley. All to save the world from Communism. Our Special Forces people, 'advisors' all, in the effort to 'win hearts and minds' and ingratiate themselves with the locals, assisted in the transport of said opium to those labs. There never was any more than a potemkin village show of setting up crop substitution. We wound up in the drug trade by our involvement in Vietnam. To stop Communism, we climbed into bed with heroin traffickers. And some say, our involvement in Colombia is but the latest bastard child from this union.All along this path, there are signs warning us that there is quicksand ahead. But the learned people in Congress and the Senate all seem to be suffering from an advanced and selective form of dyslexia. 
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Comment #1 posted by Puritan on April 09, 2000 at 09:40:26 PT
outrageous
"The majority of money Washington has spent since 1992 has gone into combating drugs has gone into treatment, etc.." Just who does this guy think he is? Why not get your facts straight if you are claiming to be an expert. The above statement is at best incorrect and at worst it is a outrageous lie. Also, it is interesting to note that Vietnam also started with training of troops for the South along with buckets of money. Things have not changed and we can very easily end up in a very nasty war.Unfortunately, our politicans lack the will to see that the real solution to this problem is through the control gained through some level of legalization perhaps using the Swiss model for the harder drugs.  
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