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  Some Officials Challenge Legality of MMJ Sales

Posted by CN Staff on October 01, 2009 at 04:09:17 PT
By John Hoeffel 
Source: Los Angeles Times 

Los Angeles, CA -- At hundreds of medical marijuana dispensaries in Los Angeles, cash is changing hands, typically about $45 for an eighth of an ounce.The dispensary owners call it a donation because state law requires their stores to operate as nonprofit collectives. But their critics -- police, the district attorney and the newly elected city attorney -- insist that it's a sale and that marijuana sales remain illegal under state law.
The debate turns largely on the interpretation of one sentence in the law, but it touches on one of the biggest concerns about dispensaries in Los Angeles: that the rapid proliferation of stores is being driven by people who are hoping to profit from the so-called Green Rush and who are buying rather than growing much of their cannabis."The people who are simply trying to make a profit are the ones messing it up for those people that need it and those legitimate distributors who are trying to help people," said L.A. City Councilman Dennis Zine.The issue boiled over at two recent meetings of the City Council planning committee, which has struggled for two years to write an ordinance to control medical marijuana.On Tuesday, the committee kicked an unfinished draft over to the Public Safety Committee without resolving some of the thorniest issues, including whether to prohibit sales."We punted," Zine said.The City Council's drawn-out deliberations could be a civics lesson on unintended consequences. The council adopted a moratorium on new dispensaries in 2007, but failed to ensure it was enforced.It wasn't, and in the last two years the 186 dispensaries allowed to stay open during the ban have been joined by hundreds of others.That has irked law enforcement officials who argue that many, if not most, of the dispensaries operate as nonprofit collectives in name only. Next week, police officers and prosecutors from around the county plan to meet for a training lunch to discuss "the eradication of medical marijuana dispensaries."L.A. County Dist. Atty. Steve Cooley and City Atty. Carmen Trutanich have decided that, based on a state Supreme Court decision issued last year, the way most dispensaries in California distribute marijuana violates state law. Neither was available to comment Wednesday.The city's high-profile drive to gain control over dispensaries is moving slowly.Most dispensaries requested an exemption from the moratorium and opened without approval while their cases were pending. Three months ago Councilman Ed Reyes, chairman of the planning committee, began the process of considering those requests and the council hasn't approved any so far.City officials said 82 requests have been denied. Of those dispensaries, 51 either never opened or have shut down, and 31 are defying orders to close. The city attorney has not decided whether to pursue fines or jail time for violations.The council's Sisyphean task was underscored by an exemption request it considered Tuesday.It came from Kedrin Rhodes, who opened King Collective Caregivers in Leimert Park just five weeks ago, almost two months after Reyes launched his campaign.Rhodes, a retired probation officer whose mother-in-law died of cancer, opened her store on a block that police and neighbors say is traversed daily by middle school students.Listening to Rhodes, who responded to questions respectfully, council members appeared dumbfounded."Did someone tell you you had the right to open?" Councilman Jose Huizar asked."Yes, my attorney," she said, explaining that her lawyer said the city's contention that an exemption request does not give a dispensary permission to open was "just opinion."Despite skirting controversial issues, the planning committee did make progress on a draft ordinance.The proposal would require dispensaries to be at least 1,000 feet from schools, parks, libraries, religious institutions, child-care facilities, youth centers, hospitals, drug rehab centers and other collectives. That restriction could make it extremely difficult to find acceptable locations; city officials are still drawing maps to see whether it would work.The ordinance also restricts operating hours to 10 a.m. to 8 p.m. and requires that membership, cash flow and inventory records be available for inspection without a search warrant or court order.But the key issue -- how the city can ensure that "greedy bastards," as Zine put it in a radio interview, are run out of business and only nonprofit collectives are allowed -- was left for another day.When Californians approved Proposition 215 in 1996, they decided patients with a doctor's recommendation and their caregivers could possess and grow pot for the patient's medical use. The initiative said nothing about collectives.In 2003, the Legislature adopted a bill that attempted to clarify the initiative, allowing patients and caregivers to "associate within the State of California in order collectively or cooperatively to cultivate marijuana for medical purposes" and exempting them from prosecution for selling, transporting and distributing pot.The city attorney's office argues that these exemptions apply only to the act of cultivating marijuana, and not to selling it.Medical marijuana advocates say that's ludicrous, that the Legislature meant to shield collectives from prosecution for selling, transporting or distributing their crop. The three council members who have devoted the most study to the issue appear sympathetic to that view."Whether the sales happen over the counter, under a basket or standing on their head, they're legal," said Don Duncan, California director of Americans for Safe Access.Dispensary owners argue that they are not engaging in over-the-counter sales. "It's an incremental reimbursement for costs that have been collectively incurred," said Michael Backes, who runs Cornerstone Collective in Eagle Rock.Duncan said he believed no dispensary in Los Angeles could stay in business if such sales were barred. "There's really no other way to do it," he said."This ordinance pretends that medical marijuana facilities are some sort of idyllic Maoist commune and everyone simply shares in the labor of producing the medicine."Source: Los Angeles Times (CA)Author: John HoeffelPublished: October 1, 2009Copyright: 2009 Los Angeles TimesContact: letters latimes.comWebsite: http://www.latimes.com/URL: http://drugsense.org/url/FanRYhtVCannabisNews Medical Marijuana Archiveshttp://cannabisnews.com/news/list/medical.shtml

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Comment #62 posted by rchandar on October 04, 2009 at 01:29:09 PT:
California
I was out there recently. I think it would be enough to get rid of Schwarzenegger. In the Obama years, a very different kind of politician would be the correct norm for a very large state with budget problems.I lived there about fifteen years ago--my, it has changed. Many of the white people don't seem to like that--they complain it's too expensive and that the quality of life has been ruined by minority entitlements and "progressive socialism." It's nothing like what they portray in the movies--minorities are the majority, it becomes obvious when you walk in the door.--rchandar
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Comment #61 posted by FoM on October 03, 2009 at 13:29:45 PT
Hope
It should be cleared up by the end of October. We just got our notice that we are officially with Verizon now. I really appreciate the forums I check out about wireless problems. Other people have been having the same problem so I don't need to call tec support since they will get it fixed. I couldn't bring up Bing.com for about a month. It now is loading.
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Comment #60 posted by Hope on October 03, 2009 at 11:52:11 PT
Merger issues?
Doesn't sound good. I hope they clear up quickly.
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Comment #59 posted by Hope on October 03, 2009 at 11:51:01 PT
Fake DEA agents
Fake DEA agents arrested in Calif. marijuana theftRead more: http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/n/a/2009/10/03/state/n110915D01.DTL&tsp=1#ixzz0Strxs3C6
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Comment #58 posted by FoM on October 03, 2009 at 11:01:08 PT
Hope
Thank you for posting the link. I was having issues with the Alltel-Verizon merger and I often wouldn't get news to load. I think they are finally getting it fixed thank goodness.
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Comment #57 posted by Hope on October 03, 2009 at 10:45:38 PT
This was probably mentioned somewhere
and I missed it.Inhale or Don't?: Marijuana Hurts Some, Helps Othershttp://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=marijuana-hurts-some-helps-others
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Comment #56 posted by Hope on October 03, 2009 at 07:29:42 PT
My plan...
Persistent and insistent reasoning and doing everything I can in supporting all those making efforts to change the unjust laws and improve the societal situation, which isn't very good right now.
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Comment #55 posted by Hope on October 03, 2009 at 07:19:32 PT
Comment 52
I meant that I keep thinking about both points of view. "A little is better than nothing" and "No compromise".
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Comment #54 posted by Hope on October 03, 2009 at 07:16:08 PT
Someday
I'd like to see the plant that so many people enjoy, so enjoyed, that it will be in flowerbeds, yards, gardens, open fields, city parks, potted, openly displayed and admired. If you wish to consume it, or the birds or animals wish to consume it, you can. They can.If you just want to just admire the beauty of the plant you can.If you don't want to own or use the plant... you don't have to.If you want to, you can grow your own "new wine, cannabis", trade it and the seed, or buy it from professional cannabists.Nobody will kill or hurt anyone over it any more than they are likely to kill or maim over lettuce or daisies. It will be everywhere or anywhere for anyone that wants it, for any reason. That's complete liberty. But I think it might not happen that completely at first.
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Comment #53 posted by Hope on October 03, 2009 at 07:02:38 PT
Compromise with those that have styled themselves
somebody's or some thing's enemy in a vicious physical war.What I will compromise on is not much, I admit. But like roll ups or zip locks... I won't quibble.Advertisement. Security. Some rules. What block. What zone. I don't really care. As long as the bad stuff... murder, destruction, arrest, spying, prison, confiscation, fear and terror tactics, sorrow, and grief stops. Sure... all these things exist. But they don't have to be about something like cannabis and inflicted on people by their government, their fellow citizens, and society in general.
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Comment #52 posted by Hope on October 03, 2009 at 06:50:28 PT
A little is better than nothing and completly free
I keep thinking about the "No comprise"... "Complete liberty" point of view.What I want is ALL the killing and persecution stopped. All of it.That requires changes in laws. The laws are "their" license to pursue, kill, imprison, humiliate, and terrify citizens... over a plant. We fight against a highly unjust law. "They"... other people, love these unjust laws and have convinced themselves that they are just. So it's people we are up against too. The people that support and protect those laws from change.I want to use "Reason". I want to reason with the people that love the law. I know they are getting a warped picture of what they are doing where they look like they're the 'good guys'. They blind themselves to what they've really done and through dead consciences... they keep doing it.I can't bear any compromise that's easy on the possessor and hell on the dealer or supplier or grower. I can't bear to compromise to the "Hell" of any part of it.Yet I don't see myself as without a sense of compromise. I don't see myself as anything but reasonable.
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Comment #51 posted by dankhank on October 02, 2009 at 19:41:52 PT
afterburner
good link ...food for thought.and good reason for no compromise.free the weed for all adults ...
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Comment #50 posted by The GCW on October 02, 2009 at 17:23:34 PT
museman -comment #6,
In My opinion, and I believe to the Master,police are public enemy #1.Police should simply do their job and quite trying to create their job.They are going out of their way to get permission to harm fellow humans.
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Comment #49 posted by Hope on October 02, 2009 at 16:48:22 PT
Museman, "Total Cannabis Liberty"
What's your plan?
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Comment #48 posted by museman on October 02, 2009 at 09:28:25 PT
afterburner
Confirmation, affirmation, and vindication!Me, I just know that 'decriminalization' and 'regulation' are merely scams of the power elite made up to look good, with all kinds of legaleze twists to confuse and fool the public. I'm not going to quote from that article, people can look at it for themselves.It makes the case that many of us have been arguing that the compromises offered in the form of decrim 'laws' are nothing more than a 'widening of the net'of prohibitionists. Backing up what i have said, that fines, job descrimination, and other 'sanctions' levied against us for exercising our basic human rights -is just another form of prohibition.I guess its alright that some will settle for the crumbs offered by the princes of the status quo, because then maybe they will get out of our way,and stop being stumbling blocks to real progress, so we can forge towards the real thing; TOTAL CANNABIS LIBERTY.REPEAL PROHIBITION -a simple solution to a complicated issue
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Comment #47 posted by ekim on October 02, 2009 at 09:14:23 PT
A police chief on the verge
A police chief on the verge 
http://www.drugwarrant.com/
Via LEAP’s blog is this video from a press conference held by Police Chief George Gascon of San Francisco. The press conference was about shutting down illegal marijuana grow operations, but someone actually asked him whether legalization might be an answer to some of our problems, and he noted:Obviously, it’s speculation… we can go back to the days of prohibition — you know, when alcohol was prohibited — people found ways to deal with the manufacturing and production of alcohol and a lot of violence came as a result of that. Alcohol was legalized; some of that went away. It’s hard to tell.
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Comment #46 posted by afterburner on October 02, 2009 at 06:18:07 PT
museman, sam, john, dank & others
I just read the following insightful piece last night by David Malmo-Levine, one of Canada's prominent proponents of herb freedom. You may find his historical international perspective interesting:DESCRIMinalization: Decrim Myths, Decrim Facts.
CANNABIS CULTURE – Is marijuana decriminalization a step in the right direction or a crafty trick to widen the net of the Drug Warriors? full story
http://www.cannabisculture.com/v2/content/descriminalization-decrim-myths-decrim-facts"Legalize it! Don't criticize it." --Peter ToshPlastic, fantastic fanatics unite.Just say "No" to net-widening.War on cannabis is over if you want it."No retreat no surrender" --No Surrender brucespringsteen.net Bruce Springsteen
http://www.brucespringsteen.net/songs/NoSurrender.html
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Comment #45 posted by FoM on October 01, 2009 at 19:50:10 PT
UPI: LA May Limit Medical Marijuana Dealers
Published: October 1, 2009 Los Angeles storefront purveyors of medical marijuana must be at least 1,000 feet from schools, parks and libraries, a city council committee proposes.The dispensaries would also have to be at least 1,000 feet from religious institutions, childcare facilities, youth centers, hospitals, drug rehabilitation centers and other community centers, the proposed ordinance says.The storefronts would also have to limit their operations to 10 a.m. to 8 p.m. and have membership, cash flow and inventory records available for inspection without a search warrant or court order, the Los Angeles Times reported.URL: http://www.upi.com/Top_News/2009/10/01/DA-Medical-marijuana-dealers-illegal/UPI-60561254424294/
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Comment #44 posted by Hope on October 01, 2009 at 18:56:26 PT
*sigh*
Comment 42.Comment 42.
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Comment #43 posted by Hope on October 01, 2009 at 18:55:24 PT
John Tyler Comment 48
That sounds like something they need to consider, John Tyler. 
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Comment #42 posted by John Tyler on October 01, 2009 at 18:26:14 PT
money and power
Medical cannabis dispensaries need to organize and as a group, a trade association, collect money between themselves and hire lawyers, and PR people and make a case for themselves the authorities and to the public at large. They should also give money to the political campaigns of politicians who will support their cause. They have the economic power. They can outspend the prohibitionist. To the politicians, its only about the money and power.
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Comment #41 posted by FoM on October 01, 2009 at 16:22:33 PT
josephlacerenza 
I personally don't use words like Cheech and Chong even though some of their movies were really funny. I believe in the 60s movement and all that it was and still is. It's hard to kill a Spirit. That is what impresses me and always will.
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Comment #40 posted by FoM on October 01, 2009 at 16:19:15 PT
josephlacerenza 
We have an article that mentions it too.http://cannabisnews.com/news/thread25035.shtml
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Comment #39 posted by josephlacerenza on October 01, 2009 at 16:16:19 PT
One More Thing
The comments are the real surprise in this piece. I have never heard such a positive perspective on cannabis come from the mainstream!!!This to me shows the real strength this movement has!The stereotype is quickly shifting from characterizations, such as Cheech and Chong, to individuals like our current president, successful people trying to enjoy life the best way they see fit!!!
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Comment #38 posted by museman on October 01, 2009 at 16:14:42 PT
Dankhank
Since you asked, by the power vested in me from the glorious and noble weed, I hereby dub thee Sir DankHank of the Illustrious company of Knightus Cannabis Fanaticus!!!FREEDA WEED
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Comment #37 posted by josephlacerenza on October 01, 2009 at 16:09:57 PT

News from the Mainstream Media
I just saw this yesterday and wanted to share!!!
Stiletto Stoners
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Comment #36 posted by Dankhank on October 01, 2009 at 15:49:23 PT

fanatics ...
may I be included in that most august of fellowships?BG, you have good, and fond memories of a truly beautiful time in the history of our country.anyone else had a chance to see "Taking Woodstock?"
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Comment #35 posted by FoM on October 01, 2009 at 15:02:58 PT

I Believe
I believe in puppy dogs and dreams. I believe in loving our fellow human beings knowing that being nice to someone might be the only pleasant thing that happens to them in the whole day. I believe in mercy. I believe we should be our brothers keeper. I believe in peace that only comes from within ourselves. I believe in a strong foundation and hope for a better day. I guess I am a fanatic. LOL!
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Comment #34 posted by BGreen on October 01, 2009 at 14:31:58 PT

We may be fanatics, but ...
we're the nicest bunch of danged fanatics you'll ever have the joy of fanaticating (or is it fanatitificating?) with. :)The Reverend Bud GreenBTW, spell check gives "nonintoxicating" as a suggestion for the unknown word "fanaticating." What a perfect metaphor for the kind of fanatical proponents of cannabis we all are. ROTFLMAO
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Comment #33 posted by museman on October 01, 2009 at 14:27:56 PT

some outlaw music
 Cannabis required.Be warned, its 192k mp3, 11 minutes long. All instrumental.
Outlaw Music
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Comment #32 posted by museman on October 01, 2009 at 14:16:03 PT

Bgreen, FoM;
;-)>my fellow fanatics...REPEAL PROHIBITION
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Comment #31 posted by FoM on October 01, 2009 at 13:02:38 PT

BGreen
If you are a fanatic then so am I.
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Comment #30 posted by EAH on October 01, 2009 at 12:47:32 PT:

Fear, loathing, ignorance, and cowardice!
The politicians of LA are inept and incompetent. They allowed a situation to develop that they now have decided they don't like. The problem with that is the fact that any attempt to reverse the trend will create serious unintended consequences that are worse than the relatively benign current situation. FOOLS!IT is this simple. The growth distribution and sale of cannabis should be made legal and regulated along many of the same lines as beer and wine. A working framework exists! It has the advantage of being understandable to government bureaucrats. The only aspect of beer and wine sales that should not be applied to cannabis is the three tier distribution system. It concentrates power with the largest distributers and that is not to be repeated. An individual can grow any amount of plants in any square footage. Up to 1000 grams a year can be produced tax free. Just like with beer or wine producing more than a certain amount must be reported or risk a fine.Large producers must obtain licensing and meet certain quality standards.
Retailing outlets must obtain that license.
It must be determined just where cannabis pricing is going to go to determine appropriate tax rates. Current prices are black market based and are far too high for a legal model. Produces will pay a certain tax based on a reliable measure of quality. Retail purchasers will pay a tax at the POS.
Revenue will come from license fees, production and sales taxes. Three separate streams. To decisively end incentives to operate in the black market, the retail price per oz of flowers intended for smoking or vaporizing should realistically be $10.00 to $20.00 for the lowest grades and 
$50.00 to $100.00 for the very best grades. This approximates beer and wine 
pricing structures. Once initial pricing levels and grades are set, they will then 
float from there, driven by market forces.
A portion of tax receipts will go to education about cannabis. A functional society will, over time see cannabis fade to a state of mundane normality.
Some people use it, many, if not most don't. It will occupy a segment of the economy similar to where wine exists now. It will be more like wine than tobacco due the connoisseur aspects of styles and varieties.
The only way to end the endless dysfunction and stalemate regarding cannabis is to get serious and implement something essentially like this.
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Comment #29 posted by BGreen on October 01, 2009 at 12:31:50 PT

Wisdom from experience
Ignorance exists, in large part, from a lack of knowledge of history. This history can be recent but it is still vitally important to an intelligent contemporaneous existence.One of the most effective ways to view things from a historical perspective is by having lived through something.
I was only seven-years-old when 1970 rolled around so my memories of the 60's is that of a child. I have only experienced the adult 60's through older friends who were there and that in itself has been a real trip.The 70's are a different story. Things had changed a lot thanks to tricky dick nixon (how's hell treating you, dick?,) but it was still what I would call the last gasp of freedom for America before the hater of all things hippie, ronald reagan (how's hell treating you, dick?,) continued and refined the evil started by nixon and so here we are.One of the things younger people can never totally understand is what is was like to be able to trust other people. You could smoke a joint with an acquaintance or coworker without the fear of it all being a LEA sting set up to snag your ass in order to keep someone else out of jail. You didn't have to worry about people facing decades in prison and loss of all of their property willing to lie, cheat and stab you in the back in a desperate attempt to keep their freedom when their only crime was the cannabis plant.Many people will never know what it's like to go to parties at houses and find out how many people you never would have expected gather around when somebody fired up a joint. The lawyers, doctors and other professionals didn't have to worry about losing their licenses to earn a living so it was no big deal to "out" yourself.The biggest thing I miss is going to concerts and having joints passed to you from all directions, from friends and strangers who instantly became new friends. When mixed with some of the awesome bands I saw in the 70's, in looking back, there was truly a spiritual element that existed. Amsterdam (unless they totally ruin it) is the closest thing to that freedom I've since experienced. I want that freedom again in my own country.It's funny that with wisdom, maturity and a deepening and honing of my convictions and beliefs, some people, even on this board, want to dismiss me as a "fanatic."Well, maybe I am, but it is an educated fanaticism that has remained steadfast for 33 years since I smoked my first joint. I've changed my views on a lot of things as I've aged because of my life experience but my views on cannabis re-legalization have been constant and overwhelmingly validated by the truth as it's allowed to slowly trickle out.I'm a fanatic about regaining freedoms lost and for that I offer no apologies.The Reverend Bud Green
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Comment #28 posted by FoM on October 01, 2009 at 11:40:14 PT

Hawaii Video: Mad About Marijuana Raids
URL: http://www.bigislandvideonews.com/2009/10october/20091001weed.htm
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Comment #27 posted by FoM on October 01, 2009 at 10:49:20 PT

Hope
Thank you. I don't think I was always this way but doing CNews for all these years has helped me to look at many issues differently then I might have seen them before. I don't believe that most people feel exactly as they did many years ago. Maybe that is why older people generally have more wisdom then a young person.
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Comment #26 posted by HempWorld on October 01, 2009 at 10:46:19 PT

This will change LA into a shooting gallery!
Brought to you by your 'representatives.' This is what happens if the police teams up with the city and together they rule against the people, instead of 'democracy.'
Legalize All Drugs!
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Comment #25 posted by Hope on October 01, 2009 at 10:34:55 PT

You're very good at balancing, FoM.
Sometimes balancing can take a little dancing around, adjusting, or moving. I know every time that someone dies or is hurt because of prohibition, the balance changes, I move further to the other end and sometimes have to jump up and down or exert more pressure on my end of it. The balance can move in these sorts of things.You're good at steadying the general balance of all this, too.Keeping balance helps you stand firm and steadfast.
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Comment #24 posted by museman on October 01, 2009 at 10:24:25 PT

dirtmover
The truth is, that the US Constitution deliberately stipulates that there should be no 'standing armies' in the US. The current "Law" enforcement agencies are in extreme violation of that intent, letter, and spirit of constitutional law. Of course nearly all 'lawyers' who owe their fat lifestyles to the recent and current trends (of right-wing government factions) away from personal liberty are going to argue that THEY are the ones to determine that, because as every 'law' student knows, the people can't really read, and need them to interpret the constitution for them.The current police state is so far from the touted concepts of 'american liberty' as propagandized globally and in the institutional programming of schools, churches, and forced government 'diversion' programs, that every word out of their corrupt mouths can be nothing but a lie, because their very existence is a deception, and fundamentally 'illegal.'The only solution rests with the will of the people. As long as the majority continues to follow the failed systems that have gotten us collectivey on the brink of destruction, the 'will' of the people is in the pocket of the money-people, who lead them all around by their noses with that carrot-on-a-stick referred to as 'the american dream.' The initiative process is the only constitutional tool being used by the people right now. I have suggested for years that it is past time to take our constitution back from the true users and abusers of this society, but for some reason nobody believes we have that power -even though it is stipulated in the first premise in the delegation of powers. We have the right and responsibility to partake in the constitutional process, but we have abdicated our rights through such things as 'licensing' 'accrediting' -the creation of economic classes like 'professionals' and 'the working class', and by giving up our power to influence the future through focused raising of our own children to the institutions and their agendas of social control. -to scratch the surface-We, the people have been extremely lax in our responsibility to govern ourselves, and this current economic scam to return the 'new money' garnered during the Clinton years by 'upstarts' -like the dotcoms, to the ruling factions, is an example of the consequences.I say, its way past due time for "THE PEOPLE" -not the lawyers- to hold a constitutional convention, and take back our country. But I'm not holding my breath.END CANNABIS PROHIBITION
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Comment #23 posted by FoM on October 01, 2009 at 10:19:56 PT

Hope
You're right.
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Comment #22 posted by Hope on October 01, 2009 at 10:16:57 PT

 cops and prison guards are going into panic mode
As are many people right now.Many people are suffering and many people are afraid of losing their jobs, their homes, and feeding, clothing, and sheltering themselves and their families.They may have to start over. They may have to seek out a different livelihood, a different lifestyle ... as many are finding themselves having to do.
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Comment #21 posted by FoM on October 01, 2009 at 10:16:42 PT

Hope
That is exactly how I feel. Thank you. For me personally standing and watching from a distance gives me a clearer perspective about all kinds of issues in life. 
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Comment #20 posted by Sam Adams on October 01, 2009 at 10:06:25 PT

Law enforcement
think about what's going through the minds of California law enforcement administrators and union leaders right now. The state is running an enormous budget deficit. The federal government just ordred the state to cut its prison population by 1/3rd - immediately! No more help is coming from the feds on medical MJ! The cops and prison guards are going into panic mode. They are circling the wagons and trying to scare & intimidate the population. They know these dispensaries are the portend the end of WOD and the gravy train. No more retiring at 40 with piles of drug money cash!
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Comment #19 posted by Hope on October 01, 2009 at 10:03:53 PT

There's that "Balance" that Museman mentioned
in everything, somewhere. Balance is not always what looks like the middle of it all, either.You aren't just waiting and doing nothing as your statement might make one think, FoM. You're watching. You're working hard to keep everyone up on the news. You provide a wonderful format for the rest of us watching and discussing, venting, and ranting, encouraging, hoping, and helping.Doing nothing. Not even watching would not be the place of balance. Doing bad things, attacking, even mocking, or screaming at those that through their behavior and actions we find alarming, in this case, this prohibition business, mostly, because of it's destructiveness, dangerous cruelty, and unreasonableness, is not the balanced place either.You're not talking about just waiting and doing nothing, by any means, FoM.You are trying to be reasonable. Waiting. Giving them a chance, I think. God knows we know these things move slowly. We are patient, but we're not going to put up with this forever. I think that's pretty clear.
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Comment #18 posted by Sam Adams on October 01, 2009 at 10:02:45 PT

School Zones
Whenever you hear the words "School Zone" and 1,000 foot zone around the schools your bullsh** detector should be going off like crazy.In most American cities and urban zones, 95-100% of the city is within 1000 feet of a school or park.So what the corrupt politicians are really doing is just saying they want to resume cannabis prohibition, sacrificing the sick and suffering along the way. They "school zone" crap is just the cowardly words they use to spin Prohibition for the dumbed-down, reactionary masses. They are literally hiding behind children to do their dirty work. 
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Comment #17 posted by Sam Adams on October 01, 2009 at 09:58:03 PT

prop 215
Is California really "a mess" right now? Remember, every little piece of nugget and herb sold in these dispensaries was being sold last year, and the year before that, and the year before that, in the underground market.So really the "mess" is just the same as it always was, except now we're saving a ton of money on law enforcement and criminal gangs are starting to pay taxes and use lawyers instead of bullets to settle conflicts.The "mess" is hundreds of new middle-class businessmen and women earning money, paying income and property taxes and supporting the community.They're worried about school kids walking by (guess they're worried about competition for the thousands of beer ads) - who do you think PAYS for school? BUSINESS!! Revenue and salaries are converted into tax money for the community.Instead of a nice, renovated storefront with a security card checking ID's out front and someone calling doctors to verify prescriptions in back these cretins on the city council want to go back to a 14-year-old thug on the corner trying to sell weed to the kids on their way to school.Prop 215 has vaulted Los Angeles to the number one spot in cannabis freedom worldwide! It's our shining success, we should be figuring out how to replicate it again and again.
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Comment #16 posted by dirtmover on October 01, 2009 at 09:52:08 PT

California
California is unique in that each local law enforcement organization has differing policies regarding dispensaries. Look at the Sacramento County Sheriffs Dept vs. Sacramento City Police. 30+ dispensaries in the city, and ZERO in the county. Personally, I'd disband ALL law enforcement organizations, and require gun ownership and training.
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Comment #15 posted by FoM on October 01, 2009 at 09:45:29 PT

museman
I agree with you. I just know it has taken many years since Prop 215 to get in this mess that is out in California now. I believe a shaking will happen and some kind of order will evolve. That's really all I meant.
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Comment #14 posted by museman on October 01, 2009 at 09:32:24 PT

FoM
"Sometimes isn't it best to let things work themselves out?"Not in my lifetime so far, not with the government. You got to push and push hard to get any positive movement in that quarter.
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Comment #13 posted by museman on October 01, 2009 at 09:29:44 PT

where they built the cities
There is a proverb;"Build your house on a rock."If you build it on the beach sooner or later its gonna wash away, If you built it on a flood plain, same thing. If you build it on a river bank, same thing. If you build it on a faultline, sooner or later its gonna shake down.You begin to see the problems.Standard American Consciousness, believes that the Earth, the elements, and the weather, are all just random actions and reactions to various stimuli. They believe that the only life with consciousness is human beings, and have made a plethora of bad assumptions accordingly.The fact that the elements have been consciously cutting us a lot of slack for a long time is beyond the grasp of the awareness of most. The slack is over. Time to pay the piper. The elements and the earth are in the process of taking it back. Yet, even at this time in history when everything is changing, people still have time to set things to rights, and re-establish balance with the earth they exploit, but don't relate to. I personally despair of the death and destruction that is imminent if they don't.FREE CANNABIS FOREVER
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Comment #12 posted by FoM on October 01, 2009 at 09:22:31 PT

museman
Sometimes isn't it best to let things work themselves out? I do think that is what this administration is doing. The Governor of California can step in and do something though.
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Comment #11 posted by museman on October 01, 2009 at 09:18:42 PT

but stopping the raids on dispensaries
was one of the major promises. If this kind of language is allowed without chastizement from the commander-in-chief, then it negates a great deal of Obamas credibility -at least in this one promise.I don't think that Obama would agree with the language and intent represented here. These guys are jumping the political chain of command. A citizen can do that, but a 'public employee' -on government contract is supposed to obey the chain of command.Obama stated unequivocally, that he would "stop the raids on medical marijuana dispensaries, and patients."Their brazen admission that their intent is to eradicate medical marijuana dispensaries, is a blatant slap in the face of Obamas stated intentions, and Obama should address it. I'm not getting on Obamas case, I mean its not like he's gonna be vacationing on the ranch like his dumb-ass predecessor, but it is blatant defiance of the peoples will, all the way to ignoring the wishes of the President.LEGALIZE FREEDOM
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Comment #10 posted by FoM on October 01, 2009 at 09:14:42 PT

museman
I believe that will happen too. Any prophetic people have all said the same thing and the Mississppi River will really get wider too. St. Louis is sitting on a time bomb too.
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Comment #9 posted by museman on October 01, 2009 at 09:07:35 PT

FoM
Well, of course its kind of a joke, I guess you'd have to have lived on the west coats and gone through a few earthquakes to get it.For many years there have been prophecies and predictions of cali 'dropping' into the ocean from the 'Big One.'Since I have an attitude towards all things that reek of capitalistic greed, I deliberately avoided going to Disneyland, even when I could afford it, and always told people that thats the way I'd prefer to see it. Because it would mean that one of the most corrupt, dirty, polluted, crime-infested cities in the world would be gone, underwater, and I would go visit in a glass bottom boat.!
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Comment #8 posted by FoM on October 01, 2009 at 09:06:37 PT

museman
Obama is letting the state's do what they want. That is all he really said he would do. Now that Bush isn't in power it is up to the state and locals to decide what they want.
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Comment #7 posted by FoM on October 01, 2009 at 09:04:06 PT

Earthquakes
I didn't even think of earthquakes. Stick asked me to play Prairie Town since our wood stove is burning and the air is cool. We're going to go outside soon for a little while and let the dogs have a good romp. Simple things can be so much fun.Here's Prairie Town. It gets us in a winter mood.http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V7ewuZS49aE
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Comment #6 posted by museman on October 01, 2009 at 09:01:15 PT

SNAFU
"That has irked law enforcement officials who argue that many, if not most, of the dispensaries operate as nonprofit collectives in name only. Next week, police officers and prosecutors from around the county plan to meet for a training lunch to discuss "the eradication of medical marijuana dispensaries."Yoohoo, Obama! Campaign Promises?"The proposal would require dispensaries to be at least 1,000 feet from schools, parks, libraries, religious institutions, child-care facilities, youth centers, hospitals, drug rehab centers and other collectives. That restriction could make it extremely difficult to find acceptable locations;.."Ya think?!So who is the REAL public enemy number 1? " -- police, the district attorney and the newly elected city attorney" - a real american cross section of enemies of the people.To recall an old phrase that's been shouted from the streets a few times in the past 40 years;"Down with the PIGS!"END CANNABIS APARTHEID
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Comment #5 posted by FoM on October 01, 2009 at 08:55:50 PT

museman
I usually understand what you say but you lost me on that one. LOL!
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Comment #4 posted by museman on October 01, 2009 at 08:53:52 PT

FoM
Maybe I'll finally get to see Disneyland...from a glass bottom boat.
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Comment #3 posted by Graehstone on October 01, 2009 at 07:58:59 PT

Already happening here
5.1 magnitude tremor centered in a rural area near Sequoia National Park
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/33116832/ns/us_news-life/

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Comment #2 posted by FoM on October 01, 2009 at 05:18:54 PT

A Whole Lot of Shaking Going On
I think we will be seeing some big time problems happening in the near future out in California. I just feel it but I don't really know if my feelings are correct.
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Comment #1 posted by rchandar on October 01, 2009 at 04:57:39 PT:

MySense
My sense is that they'd have to legalize selling. The loophole for "donations" is something they're likely to challenge over and over again. Licensing is a big part of 215-related issues: it's also the hurdle the Dutch faced thirty-some years ago.--rchandar
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