Michigan's Vague Marijuana Law Creates Confusion
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Michigan's Vague Marijuana Law Creates Confusion
Posted by CN Staff on June 22, 2009 at 07:13:14 PT
By Laura Berman
Source: Detroit News
Michigan -- The way some describe it, state's medical marijuana law -- passed by voter referendum last fall -- might as well have been written by Harold & Kumar at a hookah bar.Ostensibly written to enable people suffering from serious medical conditions to gain relief by using marijuana, the law was also enthusiastically supported by the kind of voters who might envy Michael Phelps' designer bong.
It's a law that serves a few constituencies -- and whose vagueness is beginning to cause reefer madness among the law enforcement community.Prosecutors and police agencies are annoyed by the law's fuzziness on basic legal procedures. "It doesn't define any," says Paul Walton, the deputy Oakland County prosecutor, whose office had a medical marijuana case dismissed by a frustrated Madison Heights judge last week.And State Sen. Wayne Kuipers (R-Ottawa County) is stunned to be sponsoring reform bills that would standardize marijuana growing in Michigan. "My staffers like to make jokes but it is also clear that this is a very serious issue, especially to people who benefit from medical marijuana," he says.Last week, Madison Heights District Judge Robert Turner dismissed one of the first tests of the new law, denouncing the law as "the worst piece of legislation," he's seen.The defendants' case was dramatic: If treated as medical marijuana users, their 21 little marijuana plants were like prescription Motrin. If treated as illegal drug users, Torey Clark, 47, and Robert Redden, 59, could get up to 14 years in prison.Redden, once caught with 22 pounds of marijuana, has served jail time on drug offenses. But he's also a military veteran who has had multiple surgeries and whose hip pain is now treated with oxycotin and Vicodin. Clark, according to testimony, has ovarian cancer.Are they drug abusers or patients? The law requires that a physician approve the use of marijuana -- and Clark and Redden did see a doctor, Dr. Eric Eisenbud, who testified on their behalf in court.In one of the other quirks in the case, Eisenbud works for the Hemp & THC Clinic, approving patients for medical marijuana. He's a Denver ophthalmologist, licensed to practice in Michigan and five other states.Defendants Clark and Redden's beef was all about the bust: Police got a warrant, burst into their home, and seized cash as forfeiture money. Their lawyer, Plymouth-based Robert Mullen, says he empathized with the couple's plight ("they were being bullied,") and agreed to represent them pro bono.After Wednesday's preliminary hearing, Redden told News reporter Jennifer Chambers he wanted to leave Madison Heights rather than be harassed for growing medicine.As a test case, Redden and Clark -- with their checkered history and medical problems -- were perfect foils for overzealous law enforcement: There's a law on the books that's more sympathetic to sick people than drug warriors.They had a doctor's prescription.And for now, at least, the people -- including the ones who hope to loosen recreational pot smoking laws -- have spoken.Laura Berman's column runs Tuesday and Thursday in Metro and Sunday on the web. Source: Detroit News (MI)Author: Laura BermanPublished: Sunday, June 21, 2009Copyright: 2009 The Detroit News Contact: letters Website: URL: News Medical Marijuana Archives
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Comment #36 posted by afterburner on June 24, 2009 at 20:57:53 PT
FoM & Stick
My prayers for Stick's health are with you.
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Comment #35 posted by Hope on June 24, 2009 at 14:45:16 PT
Blessed be, Stick And FoM
"We have a lot to celebrate because he is still here." So true.
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Comment #34 posted by museman on June 24, 2009 at 09:29:59 PT
Negotioation. A word that is a package containing other words, like 'compromise,' 'capitulation,' 'treaty' and every word that is in the 'negotiators' vocabulary.Negotiation is used to resolve conflict between powers and authorities who recognize each others 'position' and 'power' in the world. Wars are often ended or avoided by effective negotiation.There is a phrase that has recently been used a lot by our government; "We do not negotiate with terrorists."This means that the 'terrorists' or in the case of our government and its many imitators, don't 'recognize' the validity of 'terrorists', and that they are 'unworthy' of the effort of negotiations.In the true definition of the word 'terrorist':–noun 1. the use of violence and threats to intimidate or coerce, esp. for political purposes.2. the state of fear and submission produced by terrorism or terrorization.3. a terroristic method of governing or of resisting a government.-in the truest definition, the biggest terrorists in the world is the US Government. The CIA, the DEA, the BLM, and because of recent empowerment of basic 'law enforcement,' just about every cop in America.Millions of Americans live in fear and terror of the jack boots kicking down their door, of their grade school child inadvertantly 'giving them away' with honesty -to the subterfuge of institutional propoganda. They have lived with fear of injury, death, and imprisonment most of their lives, under a shadow of tyranny parading around like something else.Now that a significant number of people have been moved towards some political sanity after decades of just letting it happen, questions of liberty, freedom, and justice are coming to the foreground, like cannabis prohibition. The powers and principalities are scrambling to remake their images in the current public trends, and WITHOUT ACTUALLY FIXING the situation, they are attempting to NEGOTIATE with us- as a suddenly recognized power. They offer to stop being BIG Gestapo, and terrorists, if we just let them keep, and have the control and regulation -which is what they do-. They offer to 'decriminalize' our sacrament, and to set standards of weights, and pricing -so that they can have the tax percentage go back into the coffers of global dominion, or just to China, depending on how you look at it. (and that situation has more of a setup for future war than the economic collapse of Germany in the 30s.)They offer to give us back a small part of our God'-Given heritage and providence, as if it belonged to them, and they have some kind of 'super' right to dictate to us how, when, where, and how much. -Lets see, first they take it away, punish us for trying to have it or get it back, and now that we have them almost in the corner, they are going to suddenly be good guys and 'allow' us limited access to our herb of reknown, but only on the CONDITIONS that maintain the Status Quo. No liberty and freedom here, just corrupted commerce.
And they have obviously gotten many former activists ready to bend over and take it, because there is a distinct rift growing in the ranks (divide and conquer) that is focussed on the issue and dynamics of liberty vs compromise.
Though I do recognize the 'logic' (limited as it is) of thinking that 'anything is an improvement' over the many years of persecuting and imprisoning cannabis users, I cannot accept it as anything other than the politcal powers putting a 'new face' on their insidiousness. 
If I can still get fined, lose my job, pension, or get thrown in jail FOR ANYTHING HAVING TO DO WITH CANNABIS, then please tell me how this is somehow and 'end' to prohibition?
The DEA, ATF, BLM, and CIA -are known terrorist organizations, and though the suits and ties that create them, enlist them, maintain them and fund them have a large percentage of television viewers convinced of their false authority, non-representation, and some kind of 'social superiority' they are of course the greatest terrorists of them all, because they hide behind their made-up images, and smile and wave at the cameras, while they engineer destruction behind closed doors.
So, in the phraseology of this corrupted government;"DON'T NEGOTIATE WITH TERRORISTS"
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Comment #33 posted by FoM on June 24, 2009 at 08:32:50 PT
Thank you and I do think I know your heart. I hope you have a good day today too.
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Comment #32 posted by museman on June 24, 2009 at 08:26:00 PT
Happy Birthday Stick
FoM, I think you know my heart. Enjoy your day.
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Comment #31 posted by FoM on June 24, 2009 at 06:26:29 PT
Thank you. Today is Stick's birthday and we are going to just enjoy the day. We have a lot to celebrate because he is still here. As we drove thru streets in the local city where the VA clinic was yesterday I saw houses that were empty and falling apart. As I looked at the houses I thought of the people who once lived there and where are they now? I love our country but it sure needs help. Someday maybe we will become what we were once again. Please give Linda a big hug from us.
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Comment #30 posted by runruff on June 24, 2009 at 06:18:13 PT
Hoping for Stick!
I stand silently in the corner with my fingers crossed biting my lip.
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Comment #29 posted by FoM on June 24, 2009 at 04:44:03 PT
Paint with light 
Thank you. When life seems really difficult I work very hard to count my blessings. I know that no one gets thru this life without serious issues popping up along the way. Yesterday we met nice people who really cared and that is half the battle. 
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Comment #28 posted by Paint with light on June 23, 2009 at 21:13:09 PT
Sending some empathy your way.I know you and Stick can both feel the positive energy that flows your way at times like these.I just want to add to it.You deserve so much good for what you have done.
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Comment #27 posted by FoM on June 23, 2009 at 17:19:24 PT
Just Another Off Topic Comment
We went to a different VA clinic today. Stick had gone to the same clinic for many years. We spent 4 hours in the clinic. None of the time was just sitting around waiting but actually working with us. He saw a nurse who did a long medical interview and then the doctor that was female and then a social worker. He is getting a lot of blood tests on Friday. The VA has been a big disappointment with Stick's follow up care after his heart attack that happened at a big VA Hospital back in March while he was doing a stress test. Today I felt genuine concern for his health so I just want to give credit where it is do since I know we have many Veterans who read and comment on CNews. I saw Empathy. Even if they can't figure out his health issues I can tell they are going to really try. That's such a good thing. Empathy is such a lovely word.
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Comment #26 posted by kaptinemo on June 23, 2009 at 15:31:42 PT:
Museman's nailed it
And cannabis serves as the hammer and chisel that breaks the chain binding you to that 'line'. Which is why, of course, it must be BANNED, BANNED BANNED! Can't have the slaves gettin' all uppity, now can we? They might even (gasp!) get to thinkin' that they own their own bodies, and thus their own their own time as to what they do with them. Whenever I think about the nature of modern society, I think of the old Pink Floyd classics of "Welcome to the Machine" and "Brick in the Wall". They seem to illustrate perfectly how nightmarish things actually are behind the smiley mask that is government.
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Comment #25 posted by josephlacerenza on June 23, 2009 at 11:56:50 PT
Hi ya' at C-News
Here is an interesting read from our friends at NORML.
‘The Law and Marijuana’ Chronicles: Why Marijuana Remains Illegal
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Comment #24 posted by museman on June 23, 2009 at 10:02:26 PT
the line of conformity
When I was in the military's cuckoo nest, (for a late blooming conscientious objection) I had many 'crazy' experiences, among which was the first time I ever got stoned, but the culminating conclusion that happened in the 'council' of shrinks -the final 'evaluation' of my 'condition' was my first victory over the status quo.Brought before the board of shrinks, who were to decide my immediate future, I was surprised to find a sudden Freudian atmosphere, notably missing from my sessions with my own shrink. They began to barrage me with questions about my 'secret sexual desires' and the sexual symbolism of my dreams. They asked me if I wanted to have sex with everything from my mother, to various animals. I was patient at first, thinking that sooner or later we would get into some real insights into my mental processes -I mean there were 6 of them, you'd think that between them they'd have something to offer- but no, it was sex this and sex that. I answered no to all of their questions, of course, and it went on for quite some time. So I wasn't really ready when they sprung their one and only trick question, but my understanding was.They said they only had one more question for me, and then it would be over.So I got ready for the BIG SEX question, which I figured was probably 'Do you want to have sex with God, or Satan' or something, but the question was almost intelligent;"Do you belong in here?" (meaning in a 'psychiatric institution)I relaxed, easy!"Of course not!" I replied.They nearly jumped out of their chairs with the excitement of the moment;"Aha!" They said, "So if you don't belong in here, you obviously belong out there.!" (in the status quo world)Oh the self satisfaction on their faces, was a picture of SMUG, but I wasn't finished.
"No, I don't belong out there (in the status quo world) either."(still smug) "Well if you don't belong in here, and you don't belong out there, then, where do you belong?"So I stood up, went over to the blackboard, took a piece of chalk, and drew a line across the board.Pointing to it, I said;"This is what we'll call "the line of normality".""Imagine if you will, that, if you zoom in on this line, you will see all the people, chained together, all going 'ho-heave-ho' in unison, as they all 'tow the line.'"You've got the overseers ther with the whips, making sure that they all stay in line, and most of them don't even look up from their labors of monotonous sameness and repetition."Now, imagine, if you will, that someone in this line, for some reason -it doesn't matter why- falls out of line for a moment, and looks up. He sees a landscape not seen before because of the intense focus on 'being in the line.' He notices a hill, not far away, with an apple tree growing out of it. He goes over to it, takes an apple, and sits back against the tree, watching the line he'd just left, and marveling at his new perception."It wasn't long before someone in the line notices him there, sitting under the tree and eating that apple, and SMILING! That person immediately cries 'foul!' "He can't be up there doing nothing, enjoying himself, while we have to do all this ho-heave-hoing! Stop him! Arrest him! Punish him!""Whereupon the overseers get reinforcements, lots of guns and stuff, and go up there to 'put a stop' to it.And I looked at the shrinks,"Just because the majority follows the line of 'normality' and conforms to it, doesn't make that action any more valid or real, than the guy who decides to step away. So, in answer to your question, I do not belong either here nor there,- I belong under that apple tree, eating the apple."They had nothing more to say, and the next day was Dec 7th- the 40th anniversary of Pearl Harbor, and an Admiral shook my hand as they handed me my discharge (a tale in itself).I have yet to find any good reason to get back in that line. And it surely isn't suprising to anyone who has also managed to look up, that I have very little respect for all those line toting status quo ass kissers, who have been told about the apple tree (freedom), but continue to fawn after their overseers, and complain about those of us who seek liberty away from the line of comformity.True Story.FREE CANNABIS
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Comment #23 posted by FoM on June 23, 2009 at 04:35:11 PT
Paint with light
You're welcome. I agree that all the different opinions on CNews give people a broad look at how we can bring change to our current marijuana laws. From Jim Webb and prison reform to Barney Frank and Obama backing off from raiding dispensaries in California we are moving forward. I don't think we will see our new drug czar campaigning against medical marijuana laws like John Walters did under the Bush Presidency.
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Comment #22 posted by Paint with light on June 22, 2009 at 23:38:36 PT
Thanks FoM.That is a great link.I backtracked to the main page and can't wait to go through each chapter.I will keep the link in my Daily Bookmark until I have looked through each chapter.One of the things I have always enjoyed about cnews is the abundance of information that is referenced here.Storm crow and Observer are two of my favorites for providing information.Legal like alcohol.
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Comment #21 posted by kaptinemo on June 22, 2009 at 15:31:47 PT:
MSL, I don't deserve any praise
I had to be kicked in the arse by cannabis prohibition before I moved it myself in support of reform. And I'm one of the lucky ones; many here like RunRuff have paid a far greater price for their advocacy.  But, and I hope I am not tempting The Fates by saying this, I really, truly do believe we are witnessing, at long last, the end of cannabis prohibition...and with that, the end of drug prohibition in general following in short order. The economy can't take the strain of supporting it when so many other things desperately need the money that's being thrown down the DrugWar toilet. A pity it had to come down to the dollar argument instead of the moral one against caging people for ingesting plants, but if that's what it takes, then so be it. Almost anything would be acceptable to stop the insanity.
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Comment #20 posted by FoM on June 22, 2009 at 12:48:27 PT
Miracles can happen. That's nice to read.
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Comment #19 posted by ekim on June 22, 2009 at 12:43:28 PT
Rep Upton of MI supports Hinchey-Rohrabacher
However, this past January, we finally received a letter from Upton saying he would support our view. He had the courage to change his mind. He agreed to vote "yes" this year on the Hinchey-Rohrabacher amendment in Congress, which would prohibit the Drug Enforcement Administration from using federal funds to raid medical marijuana providers in states where it is legal.We veterans are still waiting to hear from our local mayor and city commissioners, waiting for their support to follow the courage of Rep. Upton.We say enough of the "shock and awe" tactics used by police and sheriffs on disabled veterans and other patients. Get your priorities right, focus on protecting us from the real criminals in our city. When will our city stop wasting our scarce tax dollars in this economy to swat veterans?
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Comment #18 posted by FoM on June 22, 2009 at 11:36:05 PT
The History of Medical Cannabis
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Comment #17 posted by FoM on June 22, 2009 at 11:23:44 PT
Doctors involved in politics concern me too.
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Comment #16 posted by Hope on June 22, 2009 at 11:20:58 PT
Foolish, misled, wrong headed medical doctors
alarm me more even than foolish, misled, wrong headed politicians.*sigh*Keep on keepin on.
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Comment #15 posted by FoM on June 22, 2009 at 11:18:25 PT
Robert Wexler
I really like him. He is so darn good with words and is very self controlled and intelligent.
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Comment #14 posted by Hope on June 22, 2009 at 11:14:22 PT
Out of Florida? Almost as stunning as a sane 
word on the matter coming out of Korea."Congressman Robert Wexler out of Florida’s 19th district has co-sponsored the bill."Be prepared for the same old, lame old status quo, love the drug war, crap to be coming back from your congress people on H.R. 2835, though. One member of the Drug Policy of Forum of Texas list already got back such a response from his congressman on H.R. 2835. "Thank you for contacting me regarding the legalization of marijuana. I appreciate hearing from you on this important matter.The United States is fighting a costly war against drugs, in terms of dollars and lives that are irrevocably changed by this modern day scourge. It is my opinion that any legalization of substances such as marijuana will undermine the ongoing efforts by the drug enforcement community to curb this epidemic that has consumed so many Americans. Marijuana is a controlled substance and legalizing or relaxing criminal penalties will only open the doors for further illegal activities. I will continue to support efforts on the part of the federal government to interdict drug shipments into the United States, pursue individuals that violate U.S. drug laws, provide adequate treatment to individuals addicted to drugs, and support public education campaigns that warn against the perils of illegal drug use. The federal, state, and local governments must work together on all these fronts to slow the flow of drugs into the U.S. and to lower the demand in this country for illegal substances. Again, thank you for taking time to contact me. I appreciate having the opportunity to represent you in the U.S. House of Representatives. Please feel free to visit my website ( or contact me with any future concerns. Sincerely,
Michael C. Burgess, M.D.
Member of Congress"Gotta keep on keepin on.
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Comment #13 posted by FoM on June 22, 2009 at 11:09:40 PT
I couldn't get passed your BOB comment. It made me laugh! 
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Comment #12 posted by GeoChemist on June 22, 2009 at 10:53:35 PT
Not an old school line of thought.....they are called "law enforcement" for a is the law, enforce it, PERIOD...there opinions should NOT matter....again they are law enforcers not law makers...which in a democratic society is left up to...ohhhh that terrible phrase...We The enforcement need to be reminded of this every now and again...what are they going to do? arrest us for pointing out the obvious? Most members of law enforcement I know can't spell B-O-B backwards....go figure something this simple confuses them...End of line
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Comment #11 posted by FoM on June 22, 2009 at 10:41:27 PT
Federal Medical Marijuana Act Introduced  
 June 22, 2009H.R. 2835 will reschedule marijuana according to the Controlled Substance Act and protect patients in compassionate states from federal arrest and prosecution.House Representative Barney Frank, along with 16 co-sponsors, reintroduced legislation to change federal policy regarding medical marijuana. Congressman Robert Wexler out of Florida’s 19th district has co-sponsored the bill.The “Medical Marijuana Patient Protection Act” will reschedule marijuana from a schedule one drug to a schedule two drug. The legislation will also protect patients in states that have approved the use of marijuana as a medicine. Currently there are 13 states with medical marijuana protection laws and 15 others with groups aiming to change the laws, including Florida.Kim Russell, Founder of People United For Medical Marijuana, a political action committee registered with the Florida Division of Elections, had this to say about the bill: “This legislation will confirm what President Obama and Attorney General Eric Holder have stated - it is a state's right to make decisions with regards to medical marijuana. This will ensure patient's safety from federal arrest and prosecution once we change Florida's laws."The bill has been put before the House Committee on Energy and Commerce, which includes Florida Representatives Castor and Stearns.Medical marijuana is not new to Floridians. Florida Supreme Court has already protected patients that use marijuana for medical purposes, and a medical marijuana compassionate club served patients in the Key West for over a year during the late 1990’s before the Federal government ended the operation.Copyright: 2009 PR-USA.net
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Comment #10 posted by FoM on June 22, 2009 at 10:17:25 PT
I am from the old school where we believed police should only enforce the laws on the books and have no say in changing laws or complaining about them. I guess I'm stuck in a different time.
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Comment #9 posted by Sam Adams on June 22, 2009 at 10:10:16 PT
interesting article
It's like the author really does want to help, you can see her struggling to break free of the Orwellian propaganda.How else can you describe criticizing those people who passed this flawed, terrible, "worst ever" law - when the only alternative was continued arrests and beat-downs of the sick people.In other words, the classic WOD propaganda technique of blaming the consequences of failed policy on reformers who are trying to change the policy!Because they passed a law preventing the beat-downs of most patients, they are to blame for the few remaining assaults. When your mind is in the thrall of doublethink, this seems rational. It's impossible for this woman to focus criticism or blame on the State and it's Law Enforcement arm in any way. Therefore, blame for the beat-down of patients MUST lie with reformers. However she does appear to undergo some sort of mind-opening catharsis by the end of the article, compassion is winning out over brainwashing. 
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Comment #8 posted by FoM on June 22, 2009 at 09:53:09 PT
I agree. Right now I am searching Youtube for children of famous artist musicians. We have XM Radio on a channel called The Bridge and I did a search and found out Jim Croce's son is a musician after hearing one of his songs. James Taylor and Carly Simons's children are musicians too.Carly Simon (With Ben & Sally) - It Was So Easy: Live
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Comment #7 posted by Hope on June 22, 2009 at 09:13:15 PT
Comment 5
"...helps give me courage to keep on keepin' on."For me, too! So true!
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Comment #6 posted by Hope on June 22, 2009 at 09:11:10 PT
Kim Bu-seon
What a brave lady!I didn't expect to see something like this out of South Korea.
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Comment #5 posted by FoM on June 22, 2009 at 09:06:06 PT
Your comment was very nice to read and helps give me courage to keep on keepin' on.
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Comment #4 posted by FoM on June 22, 2009 at 09:03:30 PT
Actress Under Fire for Backing Marijuana 
By Kim Rahn, Staff ReporterJune 22, 2009Actress Kim Bu-seon's calls on national TV for marijuana use to be legalized are causing a public uproar.In a pre-recorded interview on MBC's live morning show on Friday, the 46-year-old, who has advocated the legalization of the drug, said, ``Marijuana is not a narcotic; it is technically an Oriental herbal medicine which Koreans have used for 5,000 years.'' 
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Comment #3 posted by Hope on June 22, 2009 at 08:58:53 PT
:0)I'm so touched. That's wonderful to hear. Wonderful.May your blessings continue and increase, Mr. and Mrs. MarijuanaSavesLives.I was just thinking this morning, I've got to do more. More emails, more letters, more calls, more visits to congress people. I want to see more of these hugs, this joy, this relief, this answer to prayers and hope. I like it. I like it alot.
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Comment #2 posted by MarijuanaSavesLives on June 22, 2009 at 08:37:22 PT:
Hugs to kaptinemo, everyone and you!
All the hugs and love to our Sisters and Brothers out there!We love you all thank you for fighting for us....fighting for our rights! I would not have been able to save my wife's life with MJ if it were not for your courage. Thank you
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Comment #1 posted by kaptinemo on June 22, 2009 at 08:07:58 PT:
They never seem to get it
Of course the MMJ laws are not meant to make the lives of (tight-arsed, authoritarian) police and prosecutors and judges and other prohib pushers easier.The MMJ laws serve a much different purpose, one that the prohibs with more intelligence understand implicitly but fear to speak openly about.The MMJ laws serve to point out the utter ridiculousness of the prohibition laws, themselves.MMJ laws call attention to the pointlessness, the futility, and downright stupidity of cannabis prohibition, itself. By LE's positing these 'problems' with implementing the prohibition laws vis-a-vis MMJ laws, a mirror is held up to cannabis prohibition, itself. And what is revealed by that mirror is awful damned ugly. It causes those who thought they were unaffected by the drug laws to realize that they are having their tax dollars wasted in a gigantic that can no longer be supported unreservedly.The more this happens, the sooner cannabis prohibition will end. And that means the end of the gravy train. So of course some people in LE are upset. No more easy overtime, unchallenged 'testilying', and busting down innocent people's doors with impunity; they might actually have to return to chasing people who shoot back. 
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