cannabisnews.com: MJ Initiative Short On...Uh, Um, Well, You Know





MJ Initiative Short On...Uh, Um, Well, You Know
Posted by CN Staff on October 20, 2007 at 07:26:30 PT
By Bob Ewegen, Denver Post Columnist
Source: Denver Post 
Colorado -- Let me see if I have this right. Denver voters are being asked to cut off our index finger on the theory that such a mutilation is a darn sight better than cutting off our thumb? That seems to be the logic behind Initiated Question 100 on the current municipal mail-in ballot. Crafted by our old friends "SAFER," the measure directs the local constabulary to put enforcement of state or federal statutes against marijuana as their "lowest law-enforcement priority."
SAFER is the group that in 2005 persuaded Denver voters to approve an initiative that made possession and use of an ounce or less of marijuana legal for people over 21. Alas, Denver's finest continue to enforce existing state and federal laws against the evil weed. SAFER gets its name from its premise that smoking dope is safer than getting drunk  for both the substance abuser and society as a whole. As long as the question is limited to relative risks, SAFER has a point. Heavy marijuana use produces a condition I'll call "cat litter for brains." That's obviously a euphemism. But my editor, Dan Haley, has considerably higher standards for opinion pieces in The Denver Post than J. David McSwane uses for the editorials he prints on toilet walls or, occasionally, in the Rocky Mountain Collegian at CSU. So a euphemism will have to do. In the SAFER Doxology, glory rests on those who blow weed until they go glassy-eyed and mutter really intelligent comments like, you know, like, uh, you know, like, you know, like, uh, you know, like, uh, the things dopers, like, uh, say. That's better, we're told, than getting drunk and getting into bar fights. That conclusion is reasonable. But the premise  that we must somehow do something stupid  is wrong. Smart people don't abuse marijuana, alcohol or any other drug. Even the pro-legalization Marijuana Policy Project dealt a punishing, if inadvertent, blow at pot use in a recent e-mail to me: Marijuana is much less addictive than alcohol, with just nine percent of users becoming dependent as opposed to 15 percent for booze.  Snipped:Complete Article: http://www.denverpost.com/search/ci_7227705Source: Denver Post (CO)Author:  Bob Ewegen, Denver Post ColumnistPublished: October 19, 2007 Copyright: 2007 The Denver Post CorpWebsite: http://www.denverpost.com/Contact: openforum denverpost.com Related Articles & Web Site:Safer Denverhttp://www.saferdenver.com/Voters Could Shift Cops' Pot Priorityhttp://cannabisnews.com/news/thread23421.shtmlFalse Promise On Pothttp://cannabisnews.com/news/thread23411.shtmlCity Council Puts Pot Issue on Ballothttp://cannabisnews.com/news/thread23289.shtml
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Comment #55 posted by Hope on October 21, 2007 at 12:19:50 PT
But,, FoM.... 
Thank you. I appreciate it.:0)
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Comment #54 posted by FoM on October 21, 2007 at 12:03:40 PT
Hope
I guess I am a Tommy type! LOL! What's life without crazy adventures! 
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Comment #53 posted by FoM on October 21, 2007 at 12:00:20 PT
Hope
I sent your address to Whig. I understand worry very well but Whig is fine.
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Comment #52 posted by Hope on October 21, 2007 at 11:58:52 PT
Here ya go... Lol!
http://nickelodeon.wikia.com/wiki/Rugrats
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Comment #51 posted by Hope on October 21, 2007 at 11:56:14 PT
Tommy on Rugrats
You're definitely a Tommy type, FoM.What would I do with out you? As Chuckie would say, "But, Tommy...."
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Comment #50 posted by Hope on October 21, 2007 at 11:53:20 PT
Rugrats
If anyone is familiar with the characters of the Nickelodeon show called, "Rugrats" and the character of Chuckie, the little red headed guy...you see a pretty good characterization of my personality. 
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Comment #49 posted by Hope on October 21, 2007 at 11:51:01 PT
It really is an inborn chemical thing.
Mom says I was born worried.I see babies and small children that I know are worriers, like me. It's sad. I worry for them.But, it probably helps with my attachment to the Big Guy. It's truly a weakness, but I am able to actually be thankful for it, like Paul was about his weakness, because He can show me His strength and power because of my weakness.
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Comment #48 posted by Hope on October 21, 2007 at 11:46:31 PT
I meant...
 there must be something wrong that I don't know about, instead of, "There must be something wrong that I know about then."
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Comment #47 posted by Hope on October 21, 2007 at 11:45:19 PT
 :0)
I worry about having nothing to worry about. There must be something wrong that I know about then.I know. I pray when I worry. "Be anxious for nothing..."
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Comment #46 posted by FoM on October 21, 2007 at 11:28:06 PT
Hope and Whig
I don't why you both are even worried about e-mail accounts. I will send your address to Whig.
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Comment #45 posted by Hope on October 21, 2007 at 11:09:59 PT
Whig
Would that be safe for you to post a trashmail account here and I could use it, unless of course the bots beat me to it? I'll try to watch this thread closely.
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Comment #44 posted by whig on October 21, 2007 at 10:28:15 PT
FoM
My e-mail address should still work. If not I will make a temporary e-mail address and use that to set us up. This is a good way for people to take conversations private sometimes I guess.http://trashmail.net/You just plug in your real e-mail address and it creates a temporary address you can give anyone even publicly, or use for a website that requires registration, because it will forward only one or a few e-mails and then it will become useless to anyone.
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Comment #43 posted by FoM on October 21, 2007 at 09:56:10 PT
Hope
I would do that but I am not sure if Whig's address has changed so he would need to say it is the same somehow. I don't know if he has my e-mail address anymore either. 
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Comment #42 posted by Hope on October 21, 2007 at 09:49:28 PT
Whig
I thought you had my e-mail address.If you don't anymore, e-mail FoM and she can forward it to me then I can reply and we'll be set up. I'm reluctant to post it on a public forum...even this one. Bots, you know.That would be the simplest way, I think. Or she,perhaps could forward my address to you. Either way is fine.
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Comment #41 posted by FoM on October 21, 2007 at 09:46:53 PT
Hope
I wouldn't want any house cows either! LOL! Oh she wasn't scary she just had a cute smile! 
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Comment #40 posted by Hope on October 21, 2007 at 09:44:48 PT
The Happy Cow
FoM, that happy cow is just scary!The way our cattle are, such pets, it wouldn't surprise me to turn around and see them doing that. Well...yes, it would surprise me. My sister and I are trying to renovate a mobile home for her that we've had set up out in one of the pastures. The cows are fascinated by it and want to come in with us. It's obvious. Thankfully, they haven't figured out how to maneuver the steps. They aren't going to like it when we fence them back from it. My sister says maybe if she has coffee with them outside each morning that will placate them enough to keep them from trying to be house cows. 
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Comment #39 posted by FoM on October 21, 2007 at 09:17:30 PT
Hey Hope!
I was looking at pictures on google and found this picture of a Happy Cow. Check it out. LOL!http://www.mentalfloss.com/wp-content/uploads/2006/08/Happy_Cow_Large.jpg
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Comment #38 posted by whig on October 21, 2007 at 02:23:53 PT
afterburner
We need to get used to saying this here in America too.Cannabis is legal. It is prohibition which is unconstitutional and illegal.
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Comment #37 posted by afterburner on October 21, 2007 at 01:37:47 PT
News Flash
SECOND ONTARIO JUDGE RULES CANNABIS PROHIBITION INVALID 
Oct 19 2007: Today in an Oshawa Court, the trial judge in the 'Tom, Dick, and Harry' case dismissed the charges against them, for simple possession of marijuana. He said that in his view the marijuana prohibition had no valid force or effect. ...He said the cases against Tom, Dick, and Harry, are dismissed because the law is not there to charge them or convict them. The exact terms of his decision will be available later, after an exchange of faxes with the Court house. [ Read more...] http://cannabiscoalition.ca/html/index.php?name=Forums&file=viewtopic&p=405#405
[Every person arrested for a cannabis offense should read this important information and make their lawyer aware of it - this is the second judge KNOWN to have made this ruling. It a federal law and should be applied the same across the country] First ruling:R.v Long http://www.cannabislink.ca/legal/r_vs_long.htm*and*CN BC: Column: New Money, Same Old War, Pique Newsmagazine, (17 Oct 2007) 
http://www.mapinc.org/newstcl/v07/n1206/a07.html?176
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Comment #36 posted by whig on October 20, 2007 at 23:10:57 PT
Hope
I would love to have an in depth conversation with you sometime that would not be appropriate for this board.
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Comment #35 posted by whig on October 20, 2007 at 23:00:23 PT
oops
24:25
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Comment #34 posted by whig on October 20, 2007 at 22:59:47 PT
Hope
My quote was from Job 24:24
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Comment #33 posted by Hope on October 20, 2007 at 22:11:30 PT
Seems to me, Job is asking for Christ.
Job 9: 32 "He is not a man like me that I might answer him,
    that we might confront each other in court. 33 If only there were someone to arbitrate between us,
    to lay his hand upon us both, 34 someone to remove God's rod from me,
    so that his terror would frighten me no more. 35 Then I would speak up without fear of him,
    but as it now stands with me, I cannot.
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Comment #32 posted by Hope on October 20, 2007 at 22:03:31 PT
Hope ... Whig
What both of you say sounds right.There was one I remember reading that made me think of Christ when I read it. I'll find it.
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Comment #31 posted by Hope on October 20, 2007 at 21:59:04 PT
Welll
If there's anything like that saying in the Book of Job...I couldn't find it or notice it. Basically, he definitely had more put on him than he could endure, it looked to me like.It pretty much spells out how rough things can be...which is very rough. Job didn't curse God and die...but he did curse the day he was born and was miserable enough to actually hope to die at the time of his suffering."Why did I not perish at birth, and die as I came from the womb? Why were there knees to receive me and breasts that I might be nursed? For now I would be lying down in peace; I would be asleep and at rest with kings and counselors of the earth, who built for themselves places now lying in ruins,
with rulers who had gold, who filled their houses with silver. Or why was I not hidden in the ground like a stillborn child, like an infant who never saw the light of day? There the wicked cease from turmoil, and there the weary are at rest.Captives also enjoy their ease; they no longer hear the slave driver's shout. The small and the great are there,
and the slave is freed from his master."Why is light given to those in misery,and life to the bitter of soul, to those who long for death that does not come, who search for it more than for hidden treasure, who are filled with gladness and rejoice when they reach the grave?" 
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Comment #30 posted by whig on October 20, 2007 at 21:29:59 PT
Hope
"If this is not so, who can prove me false
    and reduce my words to nothing?"Whose word endures?
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Comment #29 posted by FoM on October 20, 2007 at 20:44:39 PT
Hope and Dankhank
What I remember Job saying was something like yet though He slay me yet will I serve Him or something close to that.
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Comment #28 posted by Hope on October 20, 2007 at 20:34:27 PT
Actually, I've just finished 23
I'll be picking up here at 24 when I come back, if anyone wants to cruise through it with me and see if there is anything like that saying in Job.http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?book_id=22&chapter=24&version=31
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Comment #27 posted by Hope on October 20, 2007 at 20:29:03 PT
Job
Break!I'm a little over halfway through it. 25th chapter.It was his wife, actually, who recommended he curse God and die. His friends are just giving him a hard time, so far, about how he MUST have done something wrong and he should repent of it and do right and God would hear his prayers. It's heinous rough! So far nothing like you won't have to endure more than you can handle.And about how the innocent have to suffer and the wicked can appear to be getting away with it, seemingly happy as a lark and free as one, too.So far Job has cursed the day he was born. He is wishing he could just die and get it over with and he's trying to tell his friends that he hasn't done anything to deserve this and that in their wisdom they don't have a clue. It's rough. I'm trying not to miss anything that might be construed into something like that saying we are talking about.The book of Job does give one insight into the misery of humanity and why death could look better to some people sometimes than their lives do. It's about having no hope and being very, very miserable.
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Comment #26 posted by Hope on October 20, 2007 at 19:44:15 PT
Job
He never "broke down and cursed God" as one of the posts at that site said. His friends tried to get him to, but he refused to. As I remember it.I'll have to skim through the book again and see if I see anything that resembles that idea of the saying. But I do remember for sure that he did not break down and curse God.
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Comment #25 posted by Hope on October 20, 2007 at 19:34:56 PT
Robin Prosser
I hadn't gotten to the bottom...or the beginning, of this thread when I posted about MBC. Whig's post got my attention because I've been thinking about her and worried that she hasn't posted.Robin Prosser's death is a shock. It makes me sad.Dankhank and FoM...that saying about God not letting anything happen that we couldn't endure has always irritated me. I think some people think it's even in the Bible. It's not. It's always seemed ridiculous to me. I've always thought it was a crummy saying. Burdens and horrors, sadly, crush people and lives all the time. I don't think God "gives" things like that to us, either. I do like the saying that you have, FoM, about "Where there's life there's hope". I was trying to remember that the other evening when someone I know was having an emotional melt down. I couldn't recall it word for word in the heat of the moment...but I think I got the idea across. I hope I did, anyway.The Thomas Brown quote that Graehstone shared is beautiful and makes sense, I think. I tend to agree with it. "Where life is more terrible than death, It is then the truest valor to want to live."I so wish she hadn't done it, but now that it's done...I do hope her spirit rests and she is in peace.She has a daughter, as I remember. I hope she's ok and my heart goes out to her and may she have the strength to carry on through all this.Life is hard. I'm so angry at those who go out of their way to make it harder for people like Robin. They should be ashamed.
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Comment #24 posted by dankhank on October 20, 2007 at 19:29:29 PT
think it is a misquote from Job. ...
found this ...http://www.lowcarbfriends.com/bbs/emotional-well-being-faith-based-support/344802-god-doesnt-give-us-more-than-we-can-handle-right.html
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Comment #23 posted by aolbites on October 20, 2007 at 18:48:04 PT
whig, good luck with natural medicine ..
http://digg.com/offbeat_news/FDA_seizes_71k_in_herbal_tea_products(NewsTarget) The U.S. Food and Drug Administration, continuing its campaign of censorship against truthfully-described herbal supplements, seized $71,000 worth of Charantea herbal supplements last week in a raid involving U.S. Marshals. The company, Fulllife Natural Options, was accused by the FDA of marketing an "unapproved drug" due to the truthful marketing claims that accurately describe the blood sugar lowering effects of the product's main ingredient: Bitter Melon fruits.According to the Food and Drug Administration, there is no such thing as an herb, food or supplement that has any biological activity whatsoever on the human body (other than simply providing calories), and any person who dares to make such a claim is immediately considered to be in violation of the FDA's authority. Any substance that has any therapeutic effect whatsoever on the human body is considered by the FDA to be a "drug" and must be approved as such -- a lengthy process costing about $800 million and requiring the favor of an agency that practically works for Big Pharma.The FDA is well known for its censorship efforts against nutritional supplements. Earlier this year....-=snip=-*sigh* when will they learn ... [another application for the data quality act methinks]-----------also, American Medical Association Opposes the Marijuana Tax Act of 1937:
http://digg.com/2008_us_elections/American_Medical_Association_Opposes_the_Marijuana_Tax_Act_of_1937Is currently #8 in hot 2008 political topics .. =)
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Comment #22 posted by Hope on October 20, 2007 at 18:05:44 PT
Attention, Mai Bong City!  MBC!
Calling MBC! Let us hear from you. 
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Comment #21 posted by Hope on October 20, 2007 at 18:02:45 PT
Whig
It's worrying me, too, that we haven't heard from MBC. She sounded like she had a handle on it, though. I'm so hoping so. She needs to post. Surely she knows we're concerned. Maybe she's just busy. That's what I keep trying to tell myself.And maybe she's having computer trouble. Mine crashed this week and I was out of commission for a few days. It happens. Maybe that's all it is. I sure hope she's ok.
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Comment #20 posted by Christen-Mitchell on October 20, 2007 at 15:36:47 PT:
The rest of this piece changes
This commentary starts off pretty offensively to tokers, but it ends intelligently....
So, should we all vote against Initiative 100, as the political establishment is almost unanimously exhorting us to do?Uh, not necessarily. We once tried outlawing booze, which is also bad, only to find out that prohibition created a criminal empire that was even worse.Pot prohibition also makes a bad thing worse. If the drug were legalized, regulated and taxed on a nationwide basis, we could focus on keeping it out of the hands of kids. Prohibition makes it just as big a felony to sell to a 60-year-old glaucoma victim as to a 14-year-old kid, so drug dealers have an incentive to recruit new users.Legal regulated sales would take the profit out of the criminal marijuana business, which amounts to a staggering $130 billion a year, untaxed, underground empire, according to that same Marijuana Policy Project. Licensed sellers who sold to kids would not only lose their license, they could go to prison.Marijuana is a bad thing, but it's one of those bad things best controlled by regulation, like booze and prostitution. Of course, passing Initiative 100 won't lead to such a rational reappraisal of our counterproductive federal drug laws. Still, it's the only vehicle at hand to send a message to the federal government that it's time to stop the madness of our War on People Who Use Drugs. 
Hemptopia - Freedom First
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Comment #19 posted by FoM on October 20, 2007 at 14:51:57 PT
whig
Let's see if she sees your post because many people read but don't post that often. If she doesn't post soon I will try to locate her. I might be able to find her e-mail if I look at the registration information but it might not be an active e-mail since people change e-mails sometimes.
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Comment #18 posted by whig on October 20, 2007 at 14:45:39 PT
FoM
I'm worried about her, and I talked to my naturopathic doctor (she also has an MD, so she is very good, and she is someone who works at one of the dispensaries to help people, free of charge), aurum metallicum (Aur) is also what she recommends when someone expresses suicidal thoughts. I don't want to lose MBC. I hope someone can get ahold of her.
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Comment #17 posted by FoM on October 20, 2007 at 14:30:00 PT
Whig
 Sure it's fine. You are a loving and caring person. I believe we don't look at natural medicine like we should either. I am alarmed by the strange behavior we see happening on the news and I think much of it is legal drug related and that scares me for people caught up in those drugs. Back in the 70s drugs were only useful if they were fun. Maybe people weren't that far off on that one.I haven't seen MBC since she last posted.
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Comment #16 posted by whig on October 20, 2007 at 14:15:26 PT
FoM
Have you heard from MBC lately?
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Comment #15 posted by whig on October 20, 2007 at 14:13:50 PT
Dankhank
I think a lot of people don't know how to treat pain, and we're just discovering it. The truth is cannabis is only part of the picture, homeopathy may be another thing we should be talking more about. I hope that's okay with FoM because I think what we are trying to do is help one another and everyone get better so we stop hurting ourselves and one another.
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Comment #14 posted by FoM on October 20, 2007 at 14:10:24 PT
Dankhank
Where did that expression come from? I can't remember.
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Comment #13 posted by dankhank on October 20, 2007 at 13:56:13 PT
ummmmm ....
I think whoever made it up had no intractable pain of any sort when producing a saying that implicitly labels anyone as "weak" who takes the express out of here.another way to try to control.
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Comment #12 posted by FoM on October 20, 2007 at 13:16:32 PT
Dankhank
I know that expression too but I don't think it is necessarily accurate or why would people give up? I do believe that we can take a lot more then we think we can though.
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Comment #11 posted by dankhank on October 20, 2007 at 13:03:27 PT
giving up ...
I've heard that God wouldn't give anyone more than they could handle.Instinctively, I never believed that, since my own mind knew of countless reasons on many levels why that was pure crap.Obviously the originator of that comment didn't know about the DEA, Satan's active army on Earth.
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Comment #10 posted by observer on October 20, 2007 at 12:31:08 PT
Pro Initiative 100
Ewegen's conclusion seems to say vote for Initiative 100.
So, should we all vote against Initiative 100, as the political establishment is almost unanimously exhorting us to do?Uh, not necessarily. We once tried outlawing booze, which is also bad, only to find out that prohibition created a criminal empire that was even worse.Pot prohibition also makes a bad thing worse...
Still, the negative stereotypes and bigotry here is disgusting. If the author tried that with black people or native Americans, he'd be howled down from all quarters. People who take cannabis, however, well: they are still in the subhuman class. You know, just like what US Drug Czar John Walters said a few weeks ago. Those druggies are "cockroaches", says he. see:That Was Then. This is Now. 
http://drugpolicycentral.com/bot/pg/then_vs_now.htm 
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Comment #9 posted by whig on October 20, 2007 at 12:02:38 PT
Graehstone
I'm so sorry. The video of her speaking from beyond, now, was powerful beyond anything more I can say.
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Comment #8 posted by FoM on October 20, 2007 at 09:52:15 PT
Graehstone
I agree.
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Comment #7 posted by tintala on October 20, 2007 at 09:50:01 PT:
A false sense of well being is BETTER than NO well
Being at all. I get sicker everyday from realizing how absurd our FED laws are, and how much $$$$$ is used to keep ppl from having their cannabis.
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Comment #6 posted by Graehstone on October 20, 2007 at 09:41:13 PT
Pain is no paltry thing
When pain grabs hold of you, you cease to be human; there is no conscious thought, only reaction. The base instinct of every living thing is to survive and thrive and pain is antithetical to that.
In the deepest depths of your mind there might be someone crying out to not do what your body is about to do but there is nothing that they can do to stop it, the pain must end, plain and simple, regardless of the consequences. 
You become a spectator ... and you become lost. 
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Comment #5 posted by FoM on October 20, 2007 at 09:08:48 PT
Graehstone
I believe where there's life there is hope but some people just don't see it that way and no matter what we do or what we say it won't change anything. I never met my one grandfather because he took his own life.
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Comment #4 posted by Graehstone on October 20, 2007 at 08:58:04 PT
It's heart breaking
And another one of us lessens the whole due to the actions of the misinformed many.
Doubly bad when one has met and actually hugged the person, as I once was able to with Steve McWilliams here in San Diego a few years ago, before he too took his own life."Where life is more terrible than death, It is then the truest 
valor to want to live." Thomas Brown... but there are limits for everyone, and too many have been reached.
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Comment #3 posted by FoM on October 20, 2007 at 08:47:50 PT
Graehstone 
It is so sad to me when someone gives up but I understand at the same time.
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Comment #2 posted by Graehstone on October 20, 2007 at 08:44:50 PT
Robin Prosser
Here is the fwd'd message from the ASA forum:I'm very sad to say that we've just heard that Montana medical marijuana patient Robin Prosser took her own life yesterday.In addition to national coverage of her medical marijuana hunger strike a few years ago, she was most recently in the news this spring after DEA seized her state-legal medical marijuana while it was in transit in Montana via UPS. Article: http://tinyurl.com/3b8zklWe helped her make a short video about the DEA seizure. It's here:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Al0vIZ_CEUQRobin's blog is here:http://blog.myspace.com/index.cfm?fusea  D=74314604Robin was a friend, and I wish I had done more to help her.--
John Masterson
Montana NORML, etc*** May she rest in peace ***
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Comment #1 posted by FoM on October 20, 2007 at 08:37:22 PT
Sad News: Robin Prosser 
I just read in my e-mail that Robin Prosser took her own life. I hope she is at peace now.
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