cannabisnews.com: Debate on Pot Sizzles





Debate on Pot Sizzles
Posted by CN Staff on October 19, 2006 at 07:56:02 PT
By John C. Ensslin, Rocky Mountain News 
Source: Rocky Mountain News
Colorado -- A televised debate over legalizing marijuana became heated Wednesday night as the two sides accused each other of distorting the facts over the effect the measure would have on violent crime, other drug use and addiction among children. "People who use marijuana are four times more prone to violence," said Linda Roady of the anti-Amendment 44 group Guarding Our Children Against Marijuana.
"That is completely outrageous," countered Mason Tvert of Safer Alternative for Enjoyable Recreation and campaign manager for Amendment 44. When he asked her to cite her source for the claim, she was unable to do so. "I don't profess to know all the statistics," Roady replied, without backing off her assertion. The exchange came during an hour-long debate on KBDI-Channel 12 on the amendment, which seeks to legalize possession of up to one ounce of marijuana for personal use by anyone 21 or older in Colorado. If voters approve the amendment, Colorado could become the first state in the nation to approve recreational use of marijuana. Nevada is considering a similar measure. At another point, Tvert tried to link Amendment 44 opponents to a Florida group that he alleged once withheld food from children and forced them to recite religious hymns as part of an anti-drug campaign. "That allegation is borderline slanderous," countered Dr. Dave Krahl of Save Our Society from Drugs. "He is making allegations that are unsubstantiated and untrue." About the only thing both sides agreed upon was that there needs to be better education on anti-drug efforts. Jessica Corry, of Guarding Our Children Against Marijuana Prohibition, described herself as a Republican mom who views anti-drug campaigns as a waste of money. She disputed Roady's claim that marijuana users are more prone to violence. "People who use marijuana don't go out and beat each other up - people on alcohol do." Tvert said his group is not claiming that marijuana is a good thing for people to use. "We never said that marijuana is harmless," he said. But by decriminalizing the drug, he said, more people might be less inclined to use alcohol, which he contends contributes to other social ills.Note: Amendment 44 sides trade barbs, question the facts.Newshawk: Paul Armentano Source: Rocky Mountain News (Denver, CO)Author:   John C. Ensslin, Rocky Mountain News Published: October 19, 2006Copyright: 2006 Denver Publishing Co.Contact: letters rockymountainnews.comWebsite: http://www.rockymountainnews.com/Related Articles & Web Site:Safer Choicehttp://www.saferchoice.org/44 Fires Up Votershttp://cannabisnews.com/news/thread22300.shtmlLinkhart Weeds Out Arguments Against Pot http://cannabisnews.com/news/thread22297.shtmlHigh Time for Pot Law, Supporters Sayhttp://cannabisnews.com/news/thread22286.shtmlA Vote to Legalize Marijuana is a Vote for Choicehttp://cannabisnews.com/news/thread22259.shtml
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Comment #27 posted by kaptinemo on October 20, 2006 at 04:40:58 PT:
The prohibs are like Captain Queeg
Many here are too young to know about a certain movie called The Caine Mutiny, in which a fictional mentally ill naval captain's eccentricities eventually endanger his crew. The captain's name was Queeg. Here is a synopsis from Wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Captain_Queeg Queeg's quirks became ever more obvious as he became ever more tyrannical, but his crew loyally soldiered on...until an incident makes it abundantly clear he's gone 'round the bend. During the following court-martial, it becomes clear that he's been warped for some time, thanks to his own outbursts during the proceedings; he blows himself out of the water in no uncertain terms.The prohibs are like that. They look outwardly normal, and you'd never suspect their logic assembly isn't fastened down tightly until they open their mouths, and then you hear all manner of wild improbabilities and misrepresentations of fact come flying out. If this happens often enough, and they are successfully challenged publicly on it such as Mason Tvert and others are doing, the prohibs become even more agitated: ""That allegation is borderline slanderous," countered Dr. Dave Krahl of Save Our Society from Drugs. "He is making allegations that are unsubstantiated and untrue." (Ah, "Doctor", would you care to try to sue Mr. Tvert? Would you like to have your affiliations with the operators of a cultish child-torture camp become widely known? Would you like to have to continually plead the 5th on CourtTV because everything you've said about cannabis can be proven not only incorrect but fraudulently so?)When that happens, when the prohibs lose their cool, they show their true faces to the public, the ones they've been trying to hide behind their office doors. When the public sees the snarl covered by the smiley-face mask, most of our work is done.
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Comment #26 posted by Hope on October 19, 2006 at 20:20:30 PT
Not slanderous? Borderline? Cause it's true!!!
"That allegation is borderline slanderous," countered Dr. Dave Krahl of Save Our Society from Drugs. "He is making allegations that are unsubstantiated and untrue."The Straight stores are substantiated and all too true.
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Comment #25 posted by John Tyler on October 19, 2006 at 19:10:09 PT
whatever pops into their heads
The prohibitionists want it both ways donít they? Sometimes they say that cannabis use makes people too peaceful now this person says that it make them violent. It seems to me prohibitionists will say whatever pops into their head at the moment. Their minds are made up and they donít want to be confused with the facts. They really donít know anything about it other than a few talking points. 
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Comment #24 posted by Nausicaa on October 19, 2006 at 18:25:59 PT
#10
I can't believe what a fumbling moron Linda was during that interview. She could hardly finish a complete sentence without stumbling over her words - incalculable being my favorite example (Michael Scott, anyone?). Her "last word" portion also made absolutely no sense. Something about alcohol not enforcing memories?? Mason absolutely destroyed her in this debate. I was reminded of the episode of Weeds where Celia and Doug have their debate for city council and Doug just says, "No, I'm good", and wins. Mason could have done the same thing.
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Comment #23 posted by mayan on October 19, 2006 at 17:56:08 PT
Put A Fork In Em'
"People who use marijuana are four times more prone to violence," said Linda Roady of the anti-Amendment 44 group Guarding Our Children Against Marijuana. Let the liars lie. They have totally destroyed their own credibility with that statement and everyone and their dog knows it. This is great! These liars are also fools for even agreeing to debate Mason Tvert. He will eat them alive every time and then drop them off at the pool!
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Comment #22 posted by FoM on October 19, 2006 at 17:34:55 PT
The Gods May Hurl Their Thunderbolts Then! 
Lombar great comment. Thanks. I understand.
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Comment #21 posted by lombar on October 19, 2006 at 17:23:40 PT
FoM
At one point she said "alcohol interferes with short term memory and.. then something about if it does not enter short term memory it does not go into long term memory. She meant to say "Marijuana". She is a neurophysiologist then? She knows how the brain functions? It may have been a slip of the tongue but perhaps subconciously she knows what Mason says is true and that her arguments are hypocritical. She finished up with "I approve of alcohol because it is legal, in moderation..." yet here she is fighting tooth and nail to stop the less harmful substance from becoming legal. Woe betide society (well maybe twinkies) should people switch from alcohol to cannabis, why civilisation might crumble, the gods may hurl their thunderbolts then! They keep harping about children but the law is about adults... they don't worry about the perception that the establisment is wholly dishonest, morally bankrupt and the people require the courts to force the politicians to enforce their own laws! The politicians fight every progressive change that would improve living conditions because they would mean less profits.I watched the news today and 2-3 times during "Politics" with Don Nueman on CBC I saw a Viagra commercial. It ends with the man and his wife entering their domicile and he has a big smile off to the left. In the center is a big blue viagra pill. Drug free society? CBC thinks people who watch "Politics" are limp noodles. What does that say?
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Comment #20 posted by whig on October 19, 2006 at 16:21:58 PT
gw 
The bread is still growing, he is alive.
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Comment #19 posted by global_warming on October 19, 2006 at 15:40:39 PT
you cannot stop
a good thingthis means that all those fat ? lawyershave to find some other businessthe fat goose of cannabis is ready for slaughterI can hear the pigs cryingIt is such a pityTo watch and hear those rich fattened pigs cryI have no pity It is time that Justice and Truth be Seenand 'We shall GatherTo pay the last respects
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Comment #18 posted by global_warming on October 19, 2006 at 15:25:49 PT
Tell me again
It is better to be 'sober'Cannabis can lead to death and destructionLong prisons and infamySome young child, locked into some Eternal PlaceSome Filthy prison on this planet EarthIts not your grandmas marijuanaIts not about VodkaIt is changeBreathe and Be refreshedWe can hug afterBrother and SisterYes and Yes
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Comment #17 posted by FoM on October 19, 2006 at 15:17:05 PT
global_warming 
Did I imagine it or did she jump from talking about alcohol right to marijuana? She got a little confused. I think she really doesn't like much of anything that might make a person smile. 
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Comment #16 posted by global_warming on October 19, 2006 at 15:14:03 PT
listened to that discussion
between Linda and MasonI think that Linda sounds like a person who has bought the Lie, and Mason was Wonderful.
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Comment #15 posted by global_warming on October 19, 2006 at 14:44:28 PT
jeese
this is starting to sound like some AARP forum.Good to hear that everybody is seeing clearly here.I just have one burning question, how did the bread come out?Oh, a BIG YES for A44 and Q7, and all the other citizen initiatives that are sprouting up all over these Blessed United States.
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Comment #14 posted by whig on October 19, 2006 at 14:31:23 PT
Max
It is possible that my eyes were weakening for neurological reasons, there was a spot on one of my eyes when I was a young child and they thought it was Tay-Sachs -- a fatal and incurable hereditary condition.The spot went away, but my vision has been a problem ever since, including three surgeries (two on left, one on right eye) for exotropia. One of the pictures the doctor took was of the neurons in the back of the eye. She said they are beautiful, textbook perfect. Nothing wrong there. She was going on and telling me how with age there is this tissue that thins out and makes vision get worse, and prevents it from being corrected surgically, and I probably wouldn't be a good candidate for that -- then she went and looked at it and said those tissues in my eyes are really healthy and she was completely surprised.Of course surgery for vision correction isn't a good idea when your vision is still changing, and it was always an issue that it was getting worse, now it's an issue that it's getting better.
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Comment #13 posted by Max Flowers on October 19, 2006 at 13:44:24 PT
whig (#6)
That's amazing, glad to hear it. I don't think I've ever heard of a case of eyes getting better after one increases cannabis use as you have. If that's what happened, you may want to talk to a researcher or something, because that would be another huge feather in the cap of cannabis medical benefits.I just went to the eye doctor myself recently, to get an exam and new glasses after not having been to one for eight years, when I originally got the glasses I wore for that long. My girlfriend and I were both pretty sure that it would turn out that my eyesight had degraded in that time and that I would need a revised prescription for the new glasses. To her surprise, and to a lesser degree my own, the new prescription was still the same as the old one. I'm not sure whether that suggests that cannabis has prevented a degradation of my eyesight, but your case seems rather compelling that it has helped improve it.
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Comment #12 posted by FoM on October 19, 2006 at 13:03:19 PT
Death from Marijuana?
Where did she come up with that? Depressed people can drink, can take pills and maybe even smoke marijuana. I am so tired of children being used to keep arresting mature adults. What about adults rights? 
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Comment #11 posted by FoM on October 19, 2006 at 12:52:10 PT
Thanks Paul
I am looking forward to hearing this debate.
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Comment #10 posted by paul armentano on October 19, 2006 at 12:45:38 PT
Mason v GOCAM debate on KFCR (NPR)
Listen to this morning's radio debate here:http://www.kcfr.org/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=94&Itemid=234&target_pg=com_day
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Comment #9 posted by whig on October 19, 2006 at 12:22:01 PT
observer
Of course liars keep a straight face. How else does one lie successfully for as long as they have?Of course, the truth does prevail eventually.
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Comment #8 posted by whig on October 19, 2006 at 12:19:28 PT
FoM #2
She wasn't opposed to medical marijuana, just recreational. I think she's just confused, so I invited her to read the cannablog.
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Comment #7 posted by observer on October 19, 2006 at 12:06:05 PT
With a Straight (Inc) Face
At another point, Tvert tried to link Amendment 44 opponents to a Florida group that he alleged once withheld food from children and forced them to recite religious hymns as part of an anti-drug campaign.Yeah, that's common knowledge.See: http://www.nationalfamilies.org/prevention/bsembler.htmlPeople: Betty SemblerAffiliation: Founder, Drug Free America Foundation; 
Founder, Save Our Society from Drugs; ...Profile: Mrs. Sembler is Founder of the Drug-Free America Foundation. Since 1976 when she was one of ten founding members of Straight, Inc., Ms. Sembler has dedicated her time to fighting the war on drugs. She is founder and president of S.O.S., Save Our Society from Drugs ...I don't need to document that Straight, Inc. "once withheld food from children", do I? This is common knowledge, I thought. 
See: http://www.google.com/search?q=food+%22Straight+Inc%22 etc."That allegation is borderline slanderous," countered Dr. Dave Krahl of Save Our Society from Drugs. "He is making allegations that are unsubstantiated and untrue."Tvert was completely on target, and Dave Krahl is the demonstrable liar. Betty Sembler, founder of Krahl's own group, "Save Our Society from Drugs," was a founding member of the infamous "Straight, Inc." for-profit drug teatment program. The abuses of Straight, Inc. were so infamous that even "60 Minutes" did a segment about the abuses of Straight Inc, that was over 20 years ago. I can't believe Dave Krahl spits out those lies with a straight face. 
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Comment #6 posted by whig on October 19, 2006 at 11:50:47 PT
Max Flowers
I think I forgot to mention here -- I went to the eye doctor the other day (Tuesday) and needed to get a new prescription. I've always had very bad and deteriorating vision, my glasses have always gotten more powerful every time I've had my eyes examined. They did a whole bunch of tests on my eyes, took pictures and scanned my peripheral vision, everything, then the doctor went over the results with me.I need new glasses because my old ones are too powerful. My eyes are in perfect health except for the focal point which I can't straighten all at once without causing too much eye strain due to the overfocus of my current lenses. If this keeps up I will get to 20/20 uncorrected eventually.
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Comment #5 posted by lombar on October 19, 2006 at 10:25:27 PT
It's not drug related violence..
but prohibition related violence. The same stuff happened with alcohol prohibition yet the answer was regulation, why is cannabis treated so differently?There is violence associated with cannabis: the violence the governments use against the cannabis using people. Sobriety at gunpoint...
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Comment #4 posted by unkat27 on October 19, 2006 at 10:14:15 PT
Sick of the Prohibitionist Lies
>"People who use marijuana are four times more prone to violence," said Linda Roady of the anti-Amendment 44 group Guarding Our Children Against Marijuana. She is completely full of stinking BS cowpies to the point that her brain is rotting from sheer stupidity. There is absolutely no scientific basis for such a statement, none whatsover at all.
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Comment #3 posted by paul armentano on October 19, 2006 at 09:19:50 PT
[Excerpt] Another study on Alzheimer's
Parts of marijuana may fight dementia 
Study: Drug reduces brain inflammation found in Alzheimerís 
Thursday, October 19, 2006
Misti Crane 
THE COLUMBUS DISPATCH 
 
  Give an old, confused rat some pot and it starts remembering things. An Ohio State University study shows that synthetic marijuana boosted memory and reduced brain inflammation in rats with brains altered to mimic the effects of Alzheimerís disease. Researcher Gary Wenk, a study co-author and Ohio State professor, shared his work at the Society for Neuroscience meeting in Atlanta this week. The findings support the theory that anti-inflammatories might help fight the devastating disease and add to evidence that compounds in pot might be helpful in treating Alzheimerís, Wenk said. While research showing the benefits of marijuana in multiple sclerosis cases has been advancing significantly, work in Alzheimerís disease is still in its infancy. "We need much more evidence," Wenk said. The test animals in Wenkís study were given WIN, a synthetic drug similar to marijuana. Rats that had the drug and rats that didnít were given three days to repeatedly navigate a water maze with an escape route. On the fourth day, Wenk and his colleagues timed the rats. In general, old rats are bad at navigating mazes. But those given pot had a 50 percent improvement in memory and a 40 to 50 percent reduction in brain inflammation, Wenk said. 
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Comment #2 posted by FoM on October 19, 2006 at 09:18:19 PT
Marijuana: The New Cure for Thinking!
This is an article some might want to check out. It has a spelling error and is written by a person who must be from the right. I want to comment on the smoking in the garage part of the article. Life isn't always for the children or why would children ever want to grow up and be free to make their own way when they become an adult? The children issue is a control issue. Bad parenting is bad parenting. Good parenting is good parenting.http://www.progressiveu.org/115338-marijuana-the-new-cure-for-thinking
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Comment #1 posted by Max Flowers on October 19, 2006 at 08:58:37 PT
There it is again
Tvert said his group is not claiming that marijuana is a good thing for people to use."We never said that marijuana is harmless," he said. But by decriminalizing the drug, he said, more people might be less inclined to use alcohol, which he contends contributes to other social ills.While I applaud Tvert's efforts in general, once again, I have to say I really object to this tactic. If he's going to say it's not harmless, he should qualify it by stating what the possible harm is. With all these studies coming out showing how cannabis prevents cancer, glaucoma, Alzheimer's, etc., it sounds to me like it's actually beneficial, not "non-harmless". In other words, it IS a good thing for people to use.To our opponents, any admission that it's not harmless is the same as conceding that it's harmful---exactly what they want. In my opinion that is the equivalent of shooting onesself in the foot in this fight. Harm = damage, and cannabis does NOT do damage. Soft-pedaling this point does not help our side in any way. Alcohol is off the charts in terms of damage/harm/toxicity!
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