cannabisnews.com: A Good Death










††A Good Death

Posted by CN Staff on May 15, 2006 at 08:56:26 PT
By Scott Allen, Globe Staff †
Source: Boston Globe†

USA -- Diane never smoked marijuana, and she disapproved of her mother's past drug experiments. But cancer made the 33-year-old teacher ready to try anything that might help: she hoped she would find a cure in herbs from a Tibetan doctor or in the hands of a faith healer deep in the Brazilian rain forest. Then, as the pain and fatigue of advanced colon cancer left Diane increasingly bedridden, she just wanted the strength to get out of bed.
That's when she found ecstasy, the illegal drug people often take at all-night dance parties. Though ecstasy is addictive and can damage hearts and brain cells, some researchers say the hallucinogen can also inspire deep feelings of well-being and intimacy with others.For a few hours at a time as the ecstasy took hold, Diane would leave her disease behind and walk in the park, sing with her parents, or talk about death without fear, her mother said.Ecstasy ''was the only thing that controlled the pain and her breathing," said Diane's mother, a Boston-area resident who asked not to be identified because last year she helped provide the illegal drugs for her daughter, whose middle name was Diane. ''She was emotionally and spiritually uplifted" when she was on ecstasy. ''She was her funny, witty self."Forty years after widespread abuse led to a virtual ban on medical research involving psychedelic drugs, experiences like Diane's are leading scientists to take a second look. Though ecstasy, LSD, and ''magic mushrooms" are now known by their partying reputation, psychedelic drugs were once seen as a promising treatment for schizophrenia and other mental conditions.Already, researchers in Miami are giving heroin addicts a hallucinogen called ibogaine in an attempt to reduce withdrawal symptoms. Rape victims in South Carolina take ecstasy in a study designed to help them talk about their ordeals. And soon, Dr. John Halpern at McLean Hospital in Belmont will begin giving ecstasy to people with advanced cancer to help them cope with the pain and anxiety of dying.For advocates of psychedelic drug research, the study at McLean, an affiliate of Harvard University, represents a chance to reduce the stigma hanging over the field. Back in the 1960s, Harvard professor Timothy Leary helped spur the backlash against psychedelic drugs with ethically questionable experiments and by advocating recreational LSD use to ''turn on, tune in, drop out." Halpern, by contrast, is a respected researcher whose past studies have found no evidence of brain damage among Navajos who regularly ingested peyote, a psychedelic drug derived from cactus.''This is not Leary saying to young people . . . ''Take LSD. Drop out, and we're going to change society,' " said Rick Doblin, president of the Multidisciplinary Association for Psychedelic Studies, an advocacy group that has pushed for resumption of psychedelic studies for years. ''This is something that can be helpful to people who have never done drugs before, and after they are done, they are not going to go out and undermine the foundations of our society."But the research is politically loaded, coming at a time when the Bush administration is fighting efforts to offer marijuana as an anti-nausea medicine for cancer patients. Federal officials fear that research showing medical value for illegal drugs will only encourage drug abuse. Dr. David Murray, special assistant in the White House Office of National Drug Control Policy, said that some psychedelic studies are fueled by an agenda to promote the use of these drugs. ''This might not be a dispassionate quest for truth," he said, noting that Doblin's group has sued the federal government in support of a University of Massachusetts professor who wants to grow marijuana for research. Initially Doblin's group also planned to pay $250,000 for the ecstasy study at McLean, though Doblin withdrew support in favor of a donation from Peter Lewis, chairman of the Progressive Group of Insurance Cos. in Ohio.Partly because of such skepticism, Halpern's research was held up for more than a year while he struggled to get federal permits. That was more time than Diane had when her mother first read an article last June in which Doblin suggested that ecstasy might help in ''facing directly life's great challenge, to die gracefully and in peace." So, after being turned away by Halpern, Diane's mother found her own ''psychedelic therapist" who was willing to lead Diane on trips with ecstasy, also known by its chemical name, MDMA.''Before her first session, Diane could only get out of bed for a few minutes at a time. Sitting or standing caused her pain to spike to unbearable levels," her mother wrote in an essay after Diane died last fall. ''During the first session with MDMA, Diane's pain receded, her spirits soared, and she was able to walk to a park near my house and hang out with a friend."The psychedelic therapist, who asked that he not be named because of fear of prosecution, admitted in an interview with the Globe that he was only guessing at what might help Diane -- and he was initially afraid that he might kill her. After all, she was on a dozen medications, including methadone, which had caused an irregular heart rhythm -- and ecstasy can make heart problems worse.After experimenting with various psychedelic drugs, he found a dose of ecstasy -- about twice the level to be used in the McLean study -- that seemed to bring Diane peace, allowing them to talk directly about her illness. Diane's mother recalled that ''on one occasion, the therapist asked Diane how she felt about her pain. She said it was like an unruly child in need of attention. She would send it love."On her final day, Diane slept peacefully for hours after taking ecstasy, her mother said, without moans and gasps. That night, ''she opened her eyes with an expression of absolute wonder, reached out to touch her dad, and died," according to Diane's mother. ''We are honored to have witnessed and shared a holy experience, my daughter's good death."But outside observers caution that psychedelic drug treatment is ethically risky: What begins as treatment for anxiety could become experiments in altering a dying person's consciousness. That, one analyst said, could take away from someone's ability to be fully engaged at the end of life.''If we're altering their mental experience and their sense of . . . the dying process, then we're crossing some boundaries that need to be very highly considered," said Keith Meador, director of the theology and medicine program at Duke University Divinity School.For now, Halpern said, he just wants to do the research to better understand how the drugs affect people with cancer, 40 percent of whom say in surveys that they don't get enough treatment for pain. Working with an oncologist from the Lahey Clinic in Burlington, he is beginning to look for 12 advanced cancer patients to undergo ecstasy therapy as well as counseling.''It's always been about doing good science," said Halpern. ''Is this helpful for people with cancer and their families? That is the only question we are trying to answer."Note: After a 40-year virtual ban on research involving psychedelic drugs, scientists look anew at their potential in treating pain and anxiety.Source: Boston Globe (MA)Author: Scott Allen, Globe Staff Published: May 15, 2006Copyright: 2006 Globe Newspaper CompanyContact: letter globe.comWebsite: http://www.boston.com/globe/MAPShttp://www.maps.org/CannabisNews Justice Archiveshttp://cannabisnews.com/news/list/justice.shtml

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Comment #167 posted by whig on May 17, 2006 at 16:03:04 PT
Max
I'm always trying to tread a line when I talk about MDMA, between saying good things and making sure people are properly warned. The nice thing about Cannabis is that I don't actually have anything to warn about except for the prohibians themselves.
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Comment #166 posted by Max Flowers on May 17, 2006 at 15:43:39 PT
Fascinating comments, folks
What a thread! This is one for the CNews books.Whig I hope I didn't seem too snarky with that last one. It was late, I was grumpy, and you know how digital communication can be sometimes. I can tell you really know your stuff as well. Maybe we should start our own site dedicated to informing the people about entheogens...?Psychedelics/empathogens are a bit off topic for this site, but not terribly, and since that was what the news article was about, well hey... what the hay. Maybe we can get it to 200 comments.
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Comment #165 posted by FoM on May 17, 2006 at 11:24:01 PT
Love My Definition
True love is when a couple can say they love one another after they have experienced the good, the bad and the ugly that life throws at them. That's love to me.
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Comment #164 posted by FoM on May 17, 2006 at 11:20:26 PT
museman
Yes sir! I really do understand what you mean.
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Comment #163 posted by museman on May 17, 2006 at 11:09:46 PT
love and marriage
Of course I cannot speak for the whole human race on this, but in my experienced opinion, love is a very mis-understood emotion.Going into my 30th year of my one and only marriage, I think I am as qualified as any to draw a few conclusions.Love does not equal romance. Romance is a chemical/emotional state directly relating to the compatabilty of pheremones interacting between two people. Directly related to sexuality, and sexual excitement. The way that the whole concept of 'romance' has been ingrained in our culture from Cinderella to Sit-Coms and soap operas to me is just another symptom of the greater dis-ease of mis-direction and subterfuge.Love on the other hand is independant of romance (though it might be and is inclusive to some) and is a LIFETIME COMMITTMENT of labor, sacrifice, and the willingness to eat sh_t for the happiness and well-being of your partner, friend or other loved ones. Love is not a package deal; it is not something you 'get' or 'find', it is what you make and/or build.Don't get me wrong, 'romance' is a fun game that was invented to integrate the physical 'love' with the actual love that grows with relationship, but the 'expectation' of it has been the ruin of so many unions that it's value is in serious question at this point. Particularly if 'romance' is consistently believed to be love.There are two kinds of love; Love of those who love you, and unconditional or 'agape' love as purportedly exemplified in Y'shua's life and ministries. To ground the potential of agape love in the emotional mire and chaos of chemical/physical/ sexuality, is one of the downfalls of our social conditioning.Love for those who love us, is an easy thing, to love those who are contrary to our likes and dislikes, is much much harder. For those who think that unconditiuonal love extends to those who have given their love, life, and soul to error, destruction, and evil, think again. Real love is a power and energy which does not reside in such darkness, and therefore has no purchase, no place to anchor in such beings. To be part of love, one must kindle their own fires of understanding and consideration, it is not given to those who have none.Real love should be the currency of life, the most highly valued thing, but it has been demoted to mere sexuality, and a commodity that can be regulated and sold to you via the accepted channels of capital gains and losses.I have 'fallen in love' many times in my life, several times with my wife - ours was not without it's tempests and disasters, and we have pretty much run the gauntlet of possibilities that one couple could possibly have to deal with. If it weren't for the actual love we feel for each other, and our children (besides the physical attraction) it would have ended many years ago.Thus, in keeping with topic, I adamantly reject any notion that any kind of chemical, organic or otherwise, benevolent or otherwise, could establish the true condition of LOVE. Enhance maybe, but create? Never. If you believe that then you would probably easily believe that arab terrorists actually did attack us on 9/11.
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Comment #162 posted by FoM on May 17, 2006 at 09:38:56 PT
Whig
I don't read stats in that area so you could be right but it isn't true for many people. Our society has created a real problem for couples to work out issues since both need to work outside the home anymore just to get by. My mother never worked outside the home and my grandmother lived with us too. 
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Comment #161 posted by whig on May 17, 2006 at 09:32:39 PT
FoM
I'm not trying to say anything about specific marriages. What I'm saying is the statistics are worse.
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Comment #160 posted by FoM on May 17, 2006 at 09:21:48 PT
Whig
I think generalizing about second marriage failing isn't fair. I was married for 7 years and divorced. I have been married for almost 33 years now and consider my life good. 
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Comment #159 posted by whig on May 17, 2006 at 09:08:28 PT
FoM
Yes, you are correct. That's why I talked about the emotional risks. But it can be a good thing too. There's somewhat of a crapshoot aspect there. It's worth noting that this isn't unique to MDMA -- many relationships fail regardless of the reasons people get together in the first place. Most marriages nowadays end in divorce. Second marriages are even less successful.Personally I think many people really don't understand what marriage is and they don't actually have one in the first place, just a blessing and a license from the state.
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Comment #158 posted by FoM on May 17, 2006 at 08:54:00 PT

MDMA
Like I've said before I have no knowledge of MDMA and no desire to try it so my comments are just my feelings not based in science or experience.If a drug makes people love people couldn't there be dangers in that? People can become infatuated with another person and that isn't love. Look at Paul McCartney and his separation from his second wife. I doubt that Paul was under the influence of MDMA when he " fell in love " but isn't there a risk to this substance because it might not be true love just chemically induced feelings?
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Comment #157 posted by whig on May 17, 2006 at 08:27:00 PT

Max
I know you've been privileged, but I did not know that you've always been on every occasion. I certainly don't doubt your experience. Interestingly some people have reported similar visual effects even from BDB, which was designed expressly to attenuate even minimal hallucinogenic effect.But really, my main point is that the alteration of consciousness is very different from LSD or the Tryptamines. There is a very different body and mental feel between these families too. The phenethylamine "alert" is common between MDMA and Mescaline. Mescaline certainly causes a trip, though.
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Comment #156 posted by FoM on May 17, 2006 at 08:02:05 PT

Off Topic: Paul McCartney
Former Beatle Paul McCartney, Wife To Separate May 17, 2006 (LONDON) - Former Beatle Paul McCartney and his second wife, Heather Mills McCartney, said Wednesday that they are separating after nearly four years of marriage, blaming intrusion from the media and insisting their split is amicable.Rumors of a rift between Mills McCartney and the singer's children -- especially Stella McCartney -- have circulated for years. Talk centered around the idea that Mills McCartney -- who is nearly half his age -- wanted to devote more time to campaigning against land mines and fur. Complete Article: http://abclocal.go.com/wls/story?section=entertainment&id=4180357
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Comment #155 posted by Max Flowers on May 17, 2006 at 00:08:08 PT

Not alone, but not in a crowd either
MDMA is not something that a person should take alone. If it is going to be taken, two or more people who care about one another should share it.I sure agree with that. Similarly, in my opinion (not shared by innumerable ravers) it also shouldn't be taken in a huge room with tons of people who don't know you and whom you don't know, without enough water and hot temperatures and overexerting yourself dancing. This is just my opinion again, but I believe the MDMA experience is at its very best thusly: with a lover or spouse, just the two of you, with appropriate mystical mellow music picked out, candles lit, phones turned off, privacy assured, light food like fruit or soup set up for later... notes for issues/intentions of personal work, if any, made and set aside nearby for reference. Everybody thinks their way is best I suppose. But I'm especially convinced about this. The loving energy, clarity and wisdom you possess on it is naturally made for the private conditions I describe... it seems to me wasted, scattered, turned into a mere "drug experience" in a room full of strangers (although they won't seem like strangers and you'll end up making out with six or seven of them). Done privately and with intention, it is a truly spiritual experience. But I accept that some peoples idea of a spiritual experience is jumping around to really loud music and hugging strangers. I respect that.Wow I really went off there... must be the trainwreck
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Comment #154 posted by Max Flowers on May 16, 2006 at 23:45:34 PT

whig
Right, but um...I'm somehow failing to convey my level of knowledge to you. :) You've got me reading back over what I wrote to see if I'm somehow coming off like an enthusiastic neophyte.At the time I was well aware of who had made it and his qualifications, and the purity. I was blessed. We're talking absolute purity. Analyzed on GC/mass spec (passed with flying colors).Maybe earlier experimentation opened (or cooked?) some neuronal pathway that allowed the E to produce mild visuals, I don't know. But I know the purity of what I had, and I know what I experienced... and boy was it magical...
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Comment #153 posted by whig on May 16, 2006 at 21:31:05 PT

And as long as I'm rambling....
There's an emotional risk here that I should mention. If two people who don't already love one another take it, there's a good chance they will love one another. Actually, better than a good chance. But not all relationships are meant to be.
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Comment #152 posted by whig on May 16, 2006 at 21:28:32 PT

One more thing
MDMA is not something that a person should take alone. If it is going to be taken, two or more people who care about one another should share it.
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Comment #151 posted by whig on May 16, 2006 at 21:22:36 PT

charmed quark
Let me address this directly."Would it really be appropriate for a person near death who is very anxious and perhaps having breathing discomfort?"I wouldn't really hesitate, if it was an option. It would be at least a moment of perfect grace for someone. If I seem to focus on the risks and possible negatives for some people, let me also say that they are very, very rare. Of tens of millions of people who have taken MDMA there are probably fewer than ten (not ten million, not ten thousand, but ten) who have died. That's a lot worse than Cannabis, where the number is zero, but it's pretty safe compared to, say, Aspirin. Or almost anything.Now I've known enough people who have had experiences of MDMA that I can honestly say that some of them have had problems with it -- specifically, people who had access to huge amounts and took it regularly, once or more times per day. That isn't very good. And that's why it's not the perfect drug. Cannabis you can literally take for pain every day, several times per day, it doesn't matter, it doesn't become ineffective, and there's no cracked out withdrawal. If someone needs to take something on a regular basis, Cannabis wins over MDMA every time.But for a one-time thing, MDMA can be profoundly beneficial, and I've never known of anyone to feel it was anything but beautiful. I'm not talking about a small number of people, either. And while the physical painkilling effects are short-duration, even the single experience can be emotionally transforming in positive ways that remain forever.
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Comment #150 posted by BGreen on May 16, 2006 at 16:55:27 PT

You know I love you, Charmed Quark
Please don't be offended by our discussion here.We're just trying to figure out what the truth really is.It's really hard to trust anything told to us by the known and proven liars calling themselves OUR government.I do grieve for the lives lost, both on 9/11 and every day since because of our retaliation and vengeance.I think we owe them the truth.The Reverend Bud Green
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Comment #149 posted by BGreen on May 16, 2006 at 16:50:07 PT

It could have been a 757
because the fuselage is slightly less than 14 feet in diameter, which would fit into the hole in the side of the pentagon.It seems highly unlikely that the 757 could have completely penetrated such a highly reinforced building without flattening out and leaving a massive hole in it's path.Why have all of the videos besides the ones already leaked and published been confiscated by the FBI and hidden from public view?Secrecy by our elected and un-elected officials lends itself to speculation and conspiracy theories, so the blame goes to the powers that be.The Reverend Bud Green
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Comment #148 posted by charmed quark on May 16, 2006 at 16:47:49 PT

BGREEN - which car?
I'm sorry I used the word nonsense. I just get disturbed by this talk. Many people died there. Many inoccent by any standard - adminstrative workers, janitors, etc. I very carefully watched the second video frame by frame. At time 27 seconds you can see the plane for one frame. The fusilage appears to be about 2 stories high - about 24-30 feet high. The single frame makes sense, given the speed the plane would have been going. There's one car I think might be the one you mean . It drives out of the parking lot at 1:26 and drives in a bit until 1:35 and then out to the right and exits the field of view at 1:42. It is still close to the camera at the time it exits the field of view. The parking lot is near the corner of the building ( you can tell by counting windows). The part that sticks out is the middle. The plane hits smack int he middle. It would have taken it over 1/4 minute to drive the distance to the crash site even if it could have maintained 30 mph on the grass, and I think it actually wnet much slower. I don't think you could see a car as more than a dot at the point of collision. You can't even make out the upper story windows above the trees windows at the point of impact.This picture will give you some scale:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:The_Pentagon_US_Department_of_Defense_building.jpg

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Comment #147 posted by whig on May 16, 2006 at 16:42:07 PT

Max
Keep in mind there are a lot of MDMA analogues out there and very little of the street Ecstasy is pure MDMA. Adulterants and impurities can cause different effects.
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Comment #146 posted by Max Flowers on May 16, 2006 at 16:32:21 PT

whig
I agree, I guess I was trying to be measured in my description (not sure why).I would agree generally with what you say about it not being a true hallucinogen, but I have often had marked visual enhancements from it. I don't know if you would define what I'm talking about as "hallucinations" or not... we may be splitting hairs semantically. I'm talking about the old pulsating carpet, gently breathing walls, shimmering candle flames, slightly morphing facial features, etc. These kind of low-grade visuals are common for me on it, and others I've talked to. But I agree that one does not get full-blown visuals (seeing things that aren't there at all or wild distortions of the visual field).  
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Comment #145 posted by BGreen on May 16, 2006 at 16:22:49 PT

The car appears at about 1 min 25 seconds
One minute after the impact.The car is clearly visible and only a bit smaller than the "plane."The Reverend Bud Green
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Comment #144 posted by whig on May 16, 2006 at 16:20:29 PT

Max
MDMA is not just good for pain. It is the absolute best painkiller, bar none. If something like it could be made that did not have tolerance and could be used every day, it would be the greatest Godsent drug on the planet.
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Comment #143 posted by global_warming on May 16, 2006 at 16:19:46 PT

Cannabis
A step closer
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Comment #142 posted by global_warming on May 16, 2006 at 16:18:21 PT

good for pain
and good for the soul,

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Comment #141 posted by whig on May 16, 2006 at 16:17:45 PT

MDMA
MDMA doesn't cause a trip. It is classified as a hallucinogen but it has no actual hallucinogenic activity.
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Comment #140 posted by Max Flowers on May 16, 2006 at 16:15:54 PT

Addressing the last part
Regarding the anxiety part, yes it is appropriate. Regarding breathing difficulties, I would maybe ask a physician, but my experience informs me that it wouldn't be a problem. It does raise blood pressure, body temperature, and heart rate a tad. It's fascinating stuff---even acute allergies are suspended, gone (temporarily). I'm allergic to cats, and on MDMA I can bury my face in a cat's fur and there is no allergic response at all. It is also known to be good for pain.
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Comment #139 posted by global_warming on May 16, 2006 at 16:14:45 PT

The Hand Of Grace Is My Hand
"John Mcdermott The Green Fields Of France lyrics"How do you do young willie mcbride,
Do you mind if I sit here down by your graveside,
And rest for a while íneath the warm summer sun,
Iíve been walking all day and Iím nearly done
I see by your gravestone you were only 19
When you joined the great fall-in in 1916
I hope you died well and I hope you died clean
Or young willie mcbride was it slow and obscene.Did they beat the drum slowly did they play the fife lowly
Did they sound the death march as they lowered you down
Did the band play the last post and chorus
Did the pipes play the flowers of the forestDid you leave a wife or a sweetheart behind
In some faithful heart is your memory enshrined
Although you died back in 1916
In that faithful heart are you forever 19
Or are you a stranger without even a name
Enclosed then forever behind a glass frame
In an old photograph torn, battered and stained
And faded to yellow in a brown leather frame.Did they beat the drum slowly did they play the fife lowly
Did they sound the death march as they lowered you down
Did the band play the last post and chorus
Did the pipes play the flowers of the forestThe sun now it shines on the green fields of france
Thereís a warm summer breeze makes the red poppies dance
And look how the sun shines from under the clouds
Thereís no gas, no barbwire, thereís no guns firing now
But here in this graveyard itís still no manís land
The countless white crosses stand mute in the sand
To manís blind indifference to his fellow man
To a whole generation that were butchered and damned.Did they beat the drum slowly did they play the fife lowly
Did they sound the death march as they lowered you down
Did the band play the last post and chorus
Did the pipes play the flowers of the forestNow young willie mcbride I canít help wonder why
Do those who lie here know why did they die
Did they believe when they answered the call
Did they really believe that this war would end wars
Well the sorrow, the suffering, the glory, the pain
The killing and the dying were all done in vain
For young willie mcbride it all happened again,
And again and again and again and againDid they beat the drum slowly did they play the fife lowly
Did they sound the death march as they lowered you down
Did the band play the last post and chorus
Did the pipes play the flowers of the forest

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Comment #138 posted by BGreen on May 16, 2006 at 16:14:13 PT

Charmed Quark
Please make damn sure you know what I'm talking about before you call my views nonsense.I'm not talking about the car that appears very close to the camera.I'm talking about the car (probably the same one captured close up) that responds AFTER the explosion, which you can see drive through the grounds to almost the exact same spot where the "plane" went through. It travels to the point of impact and then turns right, basically backtracking the trajectory of the "plane."It's at this point that we have some known object at the same spot and distance from the camera to use as a reference to ascertain an approximate idea of the size of the object that hit the pentagon.I'm not saying it wasn't a plane, I'm just saying that based on the size comparison with the car, there was no way it could have been a 757.As small as the "plane" looked, the car would have been so small as to be almost unrecognizable.Watch the complete 2nd video as posted at http://www.judicialwatch.org/ and make sure you watch it until the end.The Reverend Bud Green
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Comment #137 posted by Max Flowers on May 16, 2006 at 16:10:51 PT

charmed quark
Extremely unlikely to cause a "bad trip." In fact it is pretty unusual as a drug in that it seems to very uniformly create its trademark experience in nearly all users. I have never heard of a bad experience where MDMA was used alone (not combined with other drugs). Many other entheogens can cause quite variable reactions in people, but for some reason MDMA is very consistent.
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Comment #136 posted by charmed quark on May 16, 2006 at 16:02:53 PT

MDMA and death
I have no experience with this drug. How likely is it to cause a "bad trip" int he sense that LSD could?Would it really be appropriate for a person near death who is very anxious and perhaps having breathing discomfort? I have no idea.
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Comment #135 posted by whig on May 16, 2006 at 15:59:28 PT

museman
Dull and shallow -- did you just write that now? Wow.
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Comment #134 posted by charmed quark on May 16, 2006 at 15:58:59 PT

Conspiracy theories
Please - this is nonsense. Do you have any idea how large the Pentagon is. It's 5 full stories high. Those "bushes" in the video against the side of the building are 30 foot high trees. The car is very near the camera. The side of the building that is hit is 1000's of feet away. The size of the plane is very consistent with an airliner. 
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Comment #133 posted by global_warming on May 16, 2006 at 15:52:30 PT

There Is Power In My Hand
Amazing Grace! How sweet the soundThat saved a wretch like me!I once was lost, but now am foundWas blind, but now I see.
 'Twas Grace that taught my heart to fear,And Grace my fears relieved.How precious did that Grace appearThe hour I first believed.
 Through many dangers, toils, and snaresI have already come.'Tis Grace hath brought me safe thus farAnd Grace will lead me home.
 The Lord has promised good to me.His Word my hope secures.He will my shield and portion beAs long as life endures.
 When we've been there ten thousand yearsBright shining as the sun,We've no less days to sing God's praiseThan when we'd first begun.

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Comment #132 posted by museman on May 16, 2006 at 15:44:36 PT

dull and shallow
Dull and shallow is the form of some men's desire, and they would shape the world into their finite imageof the all consuming beast for a brief moment of intense pleasure had at the expense of all else.Begone harbingers of destruction!Your feigned brightness is only a dim reflection of the true light you massacre daily.
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Comment #131 posted by global_warming on May 16, 2006 at 15:44:08 PT

re: the passion
Exo 32:15 Then Moses turned and went down the mountain with the two tablets of the testimony in his hands. They were inscribed on both sides--inscribed front and back. Exo 32:16 The tablets were the work of God, and the writing was God's writing, engraved on the tablets. Exo 32:17 When Joshua heard the sound of the people as they shouted, he said to Moses, "There is a sound of war in the camp." Exo 32:18 But Moses replied: It's not the sound of a victory cry and not the sound of a cry of defeat; I hear the sound of singing! Exo 32:19 As he approached the camp and saw the calf and the dancing, Moses became enraged and threw the tablets out of his hands, smashing them at the base of the mountain. Exo 32:20 Then he took the calf they had made, burned it up, and ground it to powder. He scattered the powder over the surface of the water and forced the Israelites to drink the water. Exo 32:21 Then Moses asked Aaron, "What did this people do to you that you have led them into such a grave sin?" Exo 32:22 "Don't be enraged, my lord," Aaron replied. "You yourself know that the people are intent on evil. Exo 32:23 They said to me, 'Make us a god who will go before us because this Moses, the man who brought us up from the land of Egypt--we don't know what has happened to him!' Exo 32:24 So I said to them, 'Whoever has gold, take it off,' and they gave it to me. When I threw it into the fire, out came this calf!" Exo 32:25 Moses saw that the people were out of control, for Aaron had let them get out of control, so that they would be vulnerable to their enemies. Exo 32:26 And Moses stood at the camp's entrance and said, "Whoever is for the LORD, come to me." And all the Levites gathered around him. Exo 32:27 He told them, "This is what the LORD, the God of Israel, says, 'Every man fasten his sword to his side; go back and forth through the camp from entrance to entrance, and each of you kill his brother, his friend, and his neighbor.'" 

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Comment #130 posted by museman on May 16, 2006 at 15:34:27 PT

whig
There is a lot to be revealed, is there not? How can an intelligent person read that and not be deeply offended, and a little afraid because that represents the values of the Bush Dynasty?
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Comment #129 posted by whig on May 16, 2006 at 15:28:25 PT

museman
Can't you just hear Barbara Bush talking about her beautiful mind when you listen to that?http://www.commondreams.org/views04/0429-11.htmBegone! Dull Care. I have no concern to waste on such things.
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Comment #128 posted by museman on May 16, 2006 at 15:26:23 PT

Max
We felt that way during Watergate, and VietNam, Iran-Contra, the first gulf war, the only heads that rolled were the designated fall guys.
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Comment #127 posted by museman on May 16, 2006 at 15:23:55 PT

whig
Heard it. I got images of powdered wigs, gaudy jewelry, heady perfume, and some really ugly people trying to pretend to be 'beautiful.'
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Comment #126 posted by Max Flowers on May 16, 2006 at 15:23:30 PT

Blatantly insulting our intelligence
Regarding the Pentagon video, I feel the same way. Whatever it purports to show is clearly nowhere near the size of a 757. Not even close. But it is about the size of a cruise missile or a little drone plane. A cruise missile can fly 20 feet off the ground like whatever is in that video; a passenger jet cannot. These are plain facts of physics.How they pulled it off and left witneses who say they saw a big passenger jet hit it, I don't know, but their evil genius worked and that's what we have. Yet the video does not support their story, nor do the photographs that came right afterward. Someday (hopefully soon), someone on the inside of the 9/11 plot is finally going to find his conscience, and is going to sing... then, heads will roll, people will get indicted, war crimes trials will happen and it will be the beginning of the healing of America.
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Comment #125 posted by museman on May 16, 2006 at 15:19:35 PT

cruise missile
You are absolutely right, no way no how is that a commercial airliner! Also in comparison to the number of frames in the motion of the police car, the judicial clipping of one frame from that video could make all the difference. The evidence just gets more and more overwhelming. If I were a betting man, I'd lay odds they get away with it.
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Comment #124 posted by global_warming on May 16, 2006 at 15:11:37 PT

re: pentagon vids
"Whatever hit the pentagon
was barely larger than the police car shown responding a few seconds after the explosion."Perhaps this was the actions of the last brave and true Americans, who sent a message into the belly of the "beast"re: comment 105There is a sense of urgency, that can wait, for the next chapter, as 'we all struggle to understand our world.It is better to eliminate the false premises and propaganda, from some place deep in your inner mind and soul, be assured, that Life and Death are gifts that have come from the most mysterious place, the bosom of God, sustains and nourishes every living, corporeal experience, and it this mysterious process that is awakening, twinkle, to the power of the gentle hand.
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Comment #123 posted by BGreen on May 16, 2006 at 14:48:09 PT

These are the two new videos released today
http://www.judicialwatch.org
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Comment #122 posted by BGreen on May 16, 2006 at 14:44:34 PT

Whatever hit the pentagon
was barely larger than the police car shown responding a few seconds after the explosion.It was hard to judge size and distance until the moment that the car drove over in the same area where the "object" had momentarily appeared, but there is NO WAY that could have been a 757. Even a smaller commercial jet will dwarf a large truck, let alone a passenger car.I've also NEVER flown on a commercial flight with a pilot as skilled as what I saw, never touching the ground before impact.I flew out of Springfield on Northwest Airlines, and we were delayed because the well-trained pilot had gone about 5 feet too far when he taxied up to the terminal, and we sat there for over an hour as they tried to figure out how to fix his stupid mistake (and he was only going less than a mile per hour in speed.)The jets that hit the World Trade Center towers were HUGE and easily seen as they impacted, but I didn't even begin to see anything like that hitting the pentagon.Oh, my!The Reverend Bud Green
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Comment #121 posted by whig on May 16, 2006 at 14:39:58 PT

museman
I'll try using a different service. UploadPort can be a little difficult to use and I think you have to have Javascript enabled.http://www.bestsharing.com/files/ms00151553/BegoneDullCare.mp3.html
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Comment #120 posted by global_warming on May 16, 2006 at 14:39:54 PT

re:dull care
i right clicked and saved as, nice little ditty, but wonder what you are hearing whigger,
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Comment #119 posted by museman on May 16, 2006 at 14:20:25 PT

whig:the link
tried twice, no go.
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Comment #118 posted by whig on May 16, 2006 at 14:05:00 PT

Beyond! Dull Care - MP3
http://uploadport.com/request/?fid=L2E59
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Comment #117 posted by museman on May 16, 2006 at 13:43:27 PT

whig
Yes they reek of it.There are some frightening (when it is hidden) and monstrous revelations in the wings.But of course, this signifies another polar opposite also in the works; enlightening revelation, and spiritual empowerment.
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Comment #116 posted by whig on May 16, 2006 at 13:38:44 PT

museman
The idea is the same. The idea is they will do what they want and they will gratify themselves while causing untold suffering, but not care and defy judgment forever.
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Comment #115 posted by museman on May 16, 2006 at 13:15:50 PT

whig
That traditional bore very little resemblance to the 'cremation of care' that they did in the grove.For me, it was not so much that they were practicing ancient Babylonian (and Sumerian)rites of sacrificing the firstborn to the god Moloch (Malek, Marduk...) but the reaction of the crowd sent chills up my spine...and I already knew what they were up to.
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Comment #114 posted by whig on May 16, 2006 at 12:46:34 PT

museman
If you can read sheet music:http://bama.ua.edu/~jdonley/austen/musicpdf/BegoneArr.pdf
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Comment #113 posted by whig on May 16, 2006 at 12:44:41 PT

museman
Are you familiar with the story of Dull Care?Have you heard "Begone! Dull Care"?
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Comment #112 posted by museman on May 16, 2006 at 12:23:48 PT

whig
OMG. I knew it from day 1. 9/11 was a government engineered 'wag the dog' scenario.
I just recently veiwed the 'inside bohemian grove' video. I AM GETTING SO ANGRY!!!!!!!!!
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Comment #111 posted by FoM on May 16, 2006 at 12:22:04 PT

museman and whig
museman those words are good.whig, I watched it and  I guess I will have more bad dreams now. 
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Comment #110 posted by museman on May 16, 2006 at 12:09:11 PT

some Lyrics
A song I wrote back in the mid 80's. Not too many then got it. Maybe now it will make more sense.They Don't Need LoveAll around the world, it's times of troubleand you tell me you don't care if they break your mind,as long as the pay is good.When you turn on the light, there won't be much left to see.In the middle of night they took away your freedom,and you knew they would like a warning from the Book of Loveyou knew they could; death-metal-angels in the skies above,now it's too late, you better hurry just to save your love,'cause they don't need love, they don't need love.Everywhere you look it's the same old tale;signs enough to see, but who's got time to lookin service to the dollar bill?When you open your eyes, you won't like what you seeif you swallowed their lies and promised you would keep themand you knew they would, like a story from the olden daysyou knew they could, they've had time to learn some special ways.The time has come, gotta run to catch the mornings rays,'cause they don't need love.They need electric trains, and aeroplanes, ...radio, and television. Nuclear power, and binary reason, digital process...they got it on the brain..And you knew they would, like a warnin' from the Book of Love.You knew they could, death-metal angels in the skies above,now it's too late, you better hurry just to save your love, cause they don't need love. They don't need love.
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Comment #109 posted by whig on May 16, 2006 at 12:00:49 PT

FoM
http://www.freedomunderground.org/memoryhole/pentagon121.swf
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Comment #108 posted by FoM on May 16, 2006 at 11:58:30 PT

Whig
I didn't see a plane either but I blamed it on my eyes.
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Comment #107 posted by whig on May 16, 2006 at 11:46:41 PT

OT: Flight 77
And what's with the "new video" that still shows --- no plane.They couldn't even come up with a decent computer animation yet?
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Comment #106 posted by FoM on May 16, 2006 at 11:30:27 PT

museman
My oh my. It's too late. I wish I didn't understand what you meant but I do.
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Comment #105 posted by museman on May 16, 2006 at 11:21:30 PT

urgency
That sense of urgency drove me to find out, a long time ago. Since I was a young man my life was all up in that urgency. I have watched my own youthful visions of this time come true with alarming speed and effect.My sense of urgency at one point was so extreme, I had to treat it as some kind of obsession. The facts and visions that made it real and valid however, did not go away, they just multiplied and became more present and real.As the millennium approached, I could tell you of every prophecy known to man (as well as my own visionary experiences) that pointed to this relative era (not specificly 2000) as the most important crux of time, in the entire history of our planet. I could point out the logic of the numbers with alacrity and conviction. However as many people began for the first time in my life to converse about these things (that I had been shunned, ridiculed, and socially despised for, for about 35 years) the sense of urgency left me, and the nature of the obsession became clear to me.For me it was my slightly errant belief that just by giving warning that somehow these things could be averted. I say slightly errant, because I still believe that we have options up to the point that it all shuts down, but I had a life too that was being missed because of the obsessive part of my 'sense of urgency'.As the millennium turned, I actually had almost an entire year free of the 'responsibility to save the world' or that 
'sense of urgency' before the demons in power pulled off 9/11.The irony is that after decades of being ignored, the truths I had been trying to communicate were suddenly appropriate topics of conversation. But I had moved on. I realized that though the knowledge of the 'problem' was very important, much more important was applying solution.I remain free of the urgency, and the attending obsessiveness, and though I have NO...0% doubt about where we are in time, I also realize that there are many layers of human consiousness, many levels of awareness. One cannot realisticly expect the entire human race to embrace a concept just because it is true, I have found DENIAL to be a regular companion to a lot of people's daily routine. Particularly in America.The truth is, our civilization is nearing it's end. 10 years, 20 years, who can say? Maybe within the next 2 years if Bush has his way. Only some parts of it are even worth considering as savable, the rest is pure dross that has to be shaken off some way. Since we haven't collectively manifested enough presence of sanity and common sense, but replaced it with the machinations and propganda of a corrupt (since ancient times) system our options are severely limited.The urgency for me has passed, because the warnings are all now too late. There is not enough time to save all but a remnant. A remnant of man, and a remnant of civilization. This is why as a mystical artist, I do not despair that my audiences come in twos and threes, instead of thousands. Those handfuls recieve my gift, and that's all that matters.Those who are watching will see enlightenment rising during this time, just as we see the ancient folly of Property, Pride, and Power come to a very miserable end. The end is imminent, and I believe all of man is percieving this in some way. Those who have the luxury of full bellies and comfortable beds will have disturbing dreams, and those who are (for whatever reason) just now coming into the understandings of the situation are going to be filled with a sense of urgency, because that will cause them to spread the 'word.'The only advice I can give is also given in Revelations, and in Daniels prophecy;"When you see the abomination standing in the Holy place, do not stop to gather belongings, or question,....run for the hills." (paraphrased)Faith and belief is the ONLY SOLUTION available. If you do not have it, I'd advise a crash course, because that is a true urgency for all who would like a shot at surviving this coming upheaval.The cities are 'dead men walking'. Just consider the facts and reality, as well as prophecy, you will see that the cities are all doomed. Just 'living in the country' is not enough either, but at least you get a head start towards the hills.
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Comment #104 posted by FoM on May 16, 2006 at 11:16:19 PT

Sam
With all the flooding I was thinking about you and I hope you are ok. Just a nicety from an old hippie. LOL!
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Comment #103 posted by FoM on May 16, 2006 at 10:03:10 PT

Dreams
I believe when we are under great stress and we have no way of sharing or dealing with the emotions they can come out in dreams. I do my best to avoid news as much as possible recently. It doesn't change the feelings of urgency though. 
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Comment #102 posted by Hope on May 16, 2006 at 09:56:59 PT

Comment 96
Disturbing dreams?*sigh* It's not like there's anything on your mind or bothering you... or the rest of us.Don't have to explore our subconcious too deeply to find the possible reasons for disturbing dreams these days.Kill and arrest and persecute people over plants? Deny people common relief and natural medicine? Cruel governments?Everyone should be dreaming disturbing dreams.
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Comment #101 posted by Dankhank on May 16, 2006 at 09:56:18 PT

'sOK
don't mind me ...always on for learning a new thing ...I've cut way back on my favorite med, lately.I am having some interesting dreams too, lately ...time for some lunch, as I missed breakfast ...
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Comment #100 posted by FoM on May 16, 2006 at 09:47:50 PT

DankHank
I'm sorry. It's so much easier to type the letters. My husband has had all kinds of thoughts about war since we have been singing along with Living With War. He said he feels sadness, hope and thinks of Vietnam and things he hasn't thought about in years.
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Comment #99 posted by Dankhank on May 16, 2006 at 09:44:06 PT

LWW
threw me for a second, googled it, and Viola!I gave a copy of LWW to a friend yesterday ...
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Comment #98 posted by FoM on May 16, 2006 at 09:37:49 PT

Dankhank 
Woodstock and the garden. I believe this song has way more then one meaning. It encompasses who we are, where we are, what was lost and the results if change doesn't happen. It's a very deep song but so are all of the songs on LWW.
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Comment #97 posted by Dankhank on May 16, 2006 at 09:30:35 PT

garden
I should refrain from typing anything at 5AM central ... :-)I'm usually in the sack ... and in fact was this morning when awakened by a bodily process ...Neil sang about "the garden" at least once before ...though Joni Mitchell wrote the song ...WoodstockWell I came across a child of God, he was walking along the roadand I asked him tell where are you going, this he told me:Well, Iím going down to Yasgur's farm, going to join in a rock and roll band.Got to get back to the land, set my soul free.We are stardust, we are golden, we are billion year old carbon,and we got to get ourselves back to the garden.Well, then can I walk beside you? I have come to lose the smog.And I feel like I'm a cog in something turning.
And maybe it's the time of year, yes, and maybe it's the time of man.And I don't know who I am but life is for learning.
We are stardust, we are golden, we are billion year old carbon,and we got to get ourselves back to the garden.By the time we got to Woodstock, we were half a million strong,and everywhere there was song and celebration.
And I dreamed I saw the bombers jet planes riding shotgun in the sky,turning into butterflies above our nation.We are stardust, we are golden, we caught in the devilís bargain,and we got to get ourselves back to the garden.
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Comment #96 posted by FoM on May 16, 2006 at 09:24:39 PT

Hope
I don't dream often or I don't remember what I dream but recently I have been having unnerving dreams. I feel such a sense of urgency to help change the course we are on. 
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Comment #95 posted by Hope on May 16, 2006 at 09:16:10 PT

Why do they hate us so?
Because THEY are deluded, insane lunatics.
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Comment #94 posted by FoM on May 16, 2006 at 09:14:44 PT

Hope
I agree about this thread. We know what we are talking about. Why do they hate us so?I read the reviews on Living With War and I think it was American Daily called Neil old and maybe he was entering his second childhood. Does he think Cheney is old and worthless too? He's older then Neil and does he think Bush is old too? He is about 2 years younger then Neil. They want people like Neil Young to go away and by insulting his age I find that disgusting. I bet most of the Judges on the Supreme Court are older then Neil Young but no complaints there. The right wing is cruel.
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Comment #93 posted by Hope on May 16, 2006 at 08:53:39 PT

NO REAL REASON for Cannabis Prohibition. NONE.
comment 1I think of Esequial Hernandaz.Brilliant thread. So much information. I love you people.Linda. :0)
  I'm glad there is a light in that prison. I'm selfish, though. I want my old friend out of that place and safe with his beloved wife.Shine on Jerry! Taking light into dark, dark places.
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Comment #92 posted by FoM on May 16, 2006 at 08:41:49 PT

After The Garden is Gone
I thought it had to do with LSD or something close to it. It breaks my heart sometimes when I think about what we have been denied. At least I can say I remember when drug issues weren't like they are now. I believe the powers that be are terrified of losing control of the masses. The only problem with using force to control people or a society anger builds up and then rebellion. When people don't believe that their government cares about them it is doomed to fail. After the garden is goneWhat will people know?http://www.human-highway.org/lyrics/lyrics-47.html#001
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Comment #91 posted by afterburner on May 16, 2006 at 07:24:53 PT

global_warming RE Comment #33
"Dead seeds and a deeper control"Control *is* the issue. All technology can be used to free humans from their drudgery or to enslave them with new chains. Those who trust their fellow humans and follow the way of love that Jesus taught us, use technology to free the human spirit. Those who still don't get his message and example follow the curse of the law or some other punitive system that distrusts their fellow humans. Love God, love thy neighbor as thyself ... or ... punish, bomb, snoop, snitch, arrest, terrorize, exterminate plants. Who is the deceiver? Satan tells lies, God tells truths. 
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Comment #90 posted by runruffswife on May 16, 2006 at 07:22:50 PT

afterburner
Thank you. He is where he is for a reason. I appreciate what you said. The universe has put Jerry there to move energy. And one thing I've noticed about Jerry is where ever he goes, whoever he has met, whatever he touches is forever changed. He just has that way about him, that purity of spirit; it's beautiful. And we are in the midst of all this emotion doing our best to be centered in knowledge and patience, and even the absence of knowledge. Just being open to what is. Thank you for your back-up.
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Comment #89 posted by Dankhank on May 16, 2006 at 03:32:04 PT

Garden is gone ...
While listing some oldie-but-goodie chemicals I missed "purple haze." another really good one.This world we live in, the western part anyway, could arguably have proceeded from the "garden of eden." The use of psychedelics can easily be described as an inner search for meaning, (religion?), that will be unneeded when we shed the trappings of modern religion.Here is one take on that ...http://alternet.org/story/36195/ 
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Comment #88 posted by afterburner on May 15, 2006 at 23:23:00 PT

On Dying
Shouldn't a person who is dying be free to decide what medicine to take, what experiences to explore on their way out of this world. The right to choose the means and manner of their own death. Oregon's right to die assisted suicide law recognizes this right by authorizing the use of poisons to hasten death. Doesn't WAMM stand for helping ease the transition to death with community support and medical cannabis? Shouldn't a dying person be allowed to choose between nodding off and going out with full colors blazing? Neil Young said, "It's better to burn out than it is to rust." David McDermott said, "You can make life a garden of paradise or a golden cage." Shouldn't the dying have the same choice as the living.
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Comment #87 posted by museman on May 15, 2006 at 23:22:05 PT

FoM, Dank
I assumed immediately that it was a reference to Orange Sunshine, and Purple Haze, and my interpretation is 'nothin's gonna do any good, once the garden is gone.'As to the "25" opinions, apparently there are many myths and rumors still abounding concerning it. Already I think some boundaries of jurisprudence on the part of those of us who 'were there' have been inadvertantly crossed, and to continue to peel off more layers of the "lsd onion" in terms of attempting to define it's purity as lsd25 in contrast to the numerous variations and mixes that were more commonly found 'on the street' is perhaps left to less public discussion.I know that the number "25" has another significance in terms of the original number of successful recipes in Osley's factory culminating in what was considered the 'final' and purest form. What it would take to validate this claim requires revealing secrets that are not my place to reveal.I will say however that 25 micrograms of pure lsd25 is not only a 'small' dose, but an insignificant and ineffective amount for anyone with a body weight of more than 25 pounds, which basicly means a 'minimum effective' dose of pure lsd of roughly 1 microgram per pound of body mass. In the early days, with the sunshine, purple haze, the doses were varied but usually much more than was actually necessary. By the late 70's it had been worked out, and the common 'hit' of real (or close to real) lsd was about 250 mics.This is all superfluos however, because I believe what is at issue in this thread, is the value of the experience, and the fact that that experience has also been circumvented by the powers and principalities for no other reason than greed, profit, and power. They greatly fear that their carefully conditioned slaves might shake off the programming of many millennia and rise up to seize their natural, inherent, and rightful sovereignty and authority, thereby leaving no place for the parasites that live off our backs. Quite afeared are they at this point.
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Comment #86 posted by afterburner on May 15, 2006 at 23:04:00 PT

runruffswife 
Linda, I have read the travails of Jerry's caging but was suddenly way too busy at work to communicate, offer support, write letters or even pray in a meaningful way to help you and Jerry. I am greatly pleased to hear about Jerry's yoga opportunity and its positive effect on other prisoners. I also have learned a great deal myself from the practice of yoga and tai chi as well earlier in my life. During 20 plus years of intensive computer programming and parenting, I had to put my meditative practices on hold. More and more during the last few years I have been yearning to re-establish my meditative studies and perhaps to teach them eventually. I find it interesting that Jerry was sent to Massachusetts, that Lyle Craker who petitioned the DEA to allow him to grow clinical grade cannabis for research is located in Massachusetts, that Timothy Leary did LSD experiments while teaching in Massachusetts, that citizens in many areas of Massachusetts have supported medical cannabis overwhelmingly in non-binding initiatives. The wheel of life seems to be turning back around to take a second look at entheogens and spirituality. I once taught in Massachusetts in a secular assignment having nothing to do with entheogens or spirituality, but it gave me a taste of the culture of Massachusetts.Jerry is a blessing. As the Beatles once said, "Nowhere you can be that isn't where you were meant to be. It's easy." From the messages you and others have posted about Jerry, I think he knows and believes that. May his light shine on and help to change the hearts and minds of the "old world shadows" of New England and to help in the healing of the nations, starting with the USA.
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Comment #85 posted by FoM on May 15, 2006 at 22:17:19 PT

DankHank
My husband and I talked about this but we aren't sure what it meant. What does he mean by purple haze and sunshine? After The Garden - NY***Wont need no sunshineWon't need no purple hazeAfter the garden is gonehttp://www.human-highway.org/lyrics/lyrics-47.html#001
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Comment #84 posted by Dankhank on May 15, 2006 at 21:25:09 PT

LSD-25 ...
got it's name from the effective dose that produced it's effects ...25 micrograms ...a very small amount ... required to "get off."Orange Sunshine was very good, so were virtually all of the microdots ...Some particularly pure window-pane surfaced right before a Led Zepplin concert in Macon, GA in 1970 ...A friend of a friend in Army Basic Training, circa May 1971, brought back from his Leave, vacation, a sheet of paper with 100 blue dots on it. They were pretty good, too.Wickepedia says that prosecutors debunked chemist's claims by showing that ALD-52 was made FROM LSD-25, which quickly morphed back into LSD-25 so their differences beggar explanation.any how ... those were the days ..... 
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Comment #83 posted by whig on May 15, 2006 at 20:25:55 PT

museman
I can't testify to the purity of what exists out there, but according to Erowid and some experienced people that I've spoken to who had some perspective to compare, the dots that were around here a few years back were about 30mcg LSD each, which means they were pretty weak. Btw, there are rumors that some of the good acid that was around in the 60s was actually ALD-52 not LSD-25.
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Comment #82 posted by FoM on May 15, 2006 at 20:18:56 PT

Freedom
Linda you're right and if we really work hard and think about what freedom really means we can be free and life's situations aren't what determines it either.
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Comment #81 posted by runruffswife on May 15, 2006 at 20:06:09 PT

freedom
Yes ma'am. Our true freedom lies within us. We can be distracted from it with all the stuff in life, fear mainly, but we are all capable of living in true freedom. Jerry is an example of that. This government imposed separation is quite painful for us both, however, we are choosing to make the best of it. And seeing how my husband can maintain a light heart and a happy spirit even Inside is such an inspiration to us all.
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Comment #80 posted by FoM on May 15, 2006 at 19:57:27 PT

Linda
Jerry is really free. You can lock a person up and deprive them but it can't take a person's spirit from them. Freedom is really internal and personal I believe.
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Comment #79 posted by runruffswife on May 15, 2006 at 19:50:49 PT:

There's light when you look for it
Thank you for your blessings FOM. It seems to me that everything is available to us at all times. If we want to see ugliness and injustice it is there, similarly if we want to see beauty and light it is there. Jerry chooses to see and be the beauty and the light, even in a place like a Federal Prison. He is a true warrior.
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Comment #78 posted by FoM on May 15, 2006 at 19:40:21 PT

Linda
What a remarkable story. Even when things seem so dark we can find light if we can just look for it. You and Jerry are doing just that. My heart breaks for the both of you but I believe that there is a purpose for everything that happens to us in life. I know you feel that way too. God Bless you and Jerry.Jerry and Linda: http://www.terryhubbard.com/J/
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Comment #77 posted by museman on May 15, 2006 at 19:38:32 PT

Runruffs wife
I knew he was gonna brighten up the place!
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Comment #76 posted by museman on May 15, 2006 at 19:37:22 PT

Whig
" LSD is very intellectual and sort of icy in terms of interpersonal communication,"Not the kind that melts your every molecular substance into the fabric of the harmonious universe and not only your mind but your body aligns as well. I'v e often heard this (your) descripion of the various 'party acid' distributed by the Grateful Dead (for example)which was mildly laced with speed. LSD 25 and some of it's refined variants is/was very different from that.
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Comment #75 posted by FoM on May 15, 2006 at 19:33:25 PT

My 2 Cents
When we learned about addiction years ago this is how they defined addiction.A drug is addictive when the person stops taking the drug after steady use for a time and they become very sick and can die during an intense few days of withdrawal. Narcotics legal and illegal, tranquilizers, barbituates and alcohol fit that classification.Amphetamine based drugs act this way.What goes up must come down. The higher a drug takes a person the harder the crash. Depression, body aches, irregular sleep patterns are some of the effects but no death. 
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Comment #74 posted by runruffswife on May 15, 2006 at 19:24:56 PT:

runruff - word from the Inside
Hi Everyone. I just wanted to share with you some of what my dear sweet husband is up to in Federal Prison, for growing the cannabis plant. He is such a light and a blessing to that grey cement prison, they are really lucky to have him. I wanted to share with you this story, as I feel you will appreciate it. 13 years ago, before I knew Jerry, I went to the Siddha Yoga Meditation Center for the first time wanting to learn how to meditate and after the program I saw some literature on an information table about something called the Prison Project, Freedom On The Inside. I was immediately drawn to it, it jumped into my heart. I picked up the literature, took it home and read what it was about. It's about teaching inmates, through the teachings and practice of yoga philosophy how to access their true freedom, their inner connection to the Infinite. I loved this idea and thought what a great service for people who have lost or given up their physical
freedom. As a yoga teacher now I learned everything I know about yoga from the Guru Gurumayi, the ashram, the Siddha Yoga Meditation Center. Gurumayi told the yogis to teach, the world needs more teachers. Well, Jerry/RunRuff and I met in my yoga class 5 1/2 years ago. He was a student. His first day in my class, in any yoga class, there he sat on the floor, front row and center with his legs outstretched leaning back on his hands, with an amused grin. I knew right then he was different, every other beginner student I've had hides in the darkest back corner of the room. Jerry really took to yoga, he came to every class and loved it and said he wanted to teach someday, and that we would be teaching together. I thought he was a little nuts for saying that, as we had just met weeks prior. So here we are in life at this point, 5 1/2 years
later. Jerry is in prison. I am home. Two weeks into
his sentence I signed Jerry up for the Prison Project study course, so he now receives two lessons a month on the teachings and philosophy of yoga. His reading it has sparked interest in other inmates and they are now requesting it. The other day Jerry called me and said, "I taught my
first yoga class today." He had two students. Today
he called me and through tears he told me how word
spread through the prison like wildfire about yoga
and he's been approached and asked to teach a
regular class. The staff and inmates all are asking
him to teach. He said he would do it and is now assigned to teaching 3 classes a week. He said,"Linda, everything I learned about yoga I learned through you." And I told him "everything I learned about yoga I learned through Gurumayi and the Center."  This is a real cosmic moment for me to see the reality of the Prison Project unfolding somehow through me and through Jerry, 13 years after I first learned about it. It's amazing to see one's intention manifest. Intention is so powerful. So there is my husband in a Federal Prison in Massachusettes spreading the light of Truth and teaching others how to be Free on the Inside. I am so proud of RunRuff. He is a blessing to this world.
Love Love Love,
RunRuff's wife, Linda
P.S. If you would like to communicate with me please email me at blossomasana yahoo.com

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Comment #73 posted by whig on May 15, 2006 at 19:17:18 PT

Max
The primary negative after-effect of MDMA is depression. MDMA causes temporary depletion of serotonin and down-regulation of serotonin receptors. This typically recovers in a few days, and doesn't cause a problem. But for the person who takes frequent repeated doses of MDMA over a period of time it may not have a chance to recover, and there can be a prolonged period of months or longer to return to normal.
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Comment #72 posted by Max Flowers on May 15, 2006 at 18:54:21 PT

whig
What would you say are the "withdrawal symptoms" of MDMA? That anyone maintains there are any at all is news to me. With MDMA, one is only going to feel better physically if one stops using it after using it too much.The definition I am using for the term withdrawal is the syndrome of seizures, shakes, delerium tremens (in the case of alcohol as another example), and things like that when the drug is suddenly not taken after regular habituation is established.Maybe we are using the word differently. Even potato chips are "potentially addictive" for someone who leans that way.I also would point out that I define "addictive" as a drug that will create physical habituation after a fairly small number of regular uses. Opiates are most famous for this, obviously. Alcohol sort of does it too (and packs a serious withdrawal cycle) and to a small degree, even caffeine as well. In other words, it makes you feel shitty physically ("sick") if you don't do some after you've been doing it a little while.I don't mean to be argumentative, I am just very surprised to see you or anyone say that. There is a huge difference between clinically addictive drugs as per my outline above, and drugs that a small segment of people with pathologically `addictive personalities' may want to do lots of (which could be anything from pot to glue to heroin).
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Comment #71 posted by Truth on May 15, 2006 at 18:38:53 PT

great thread
spreading some light.......
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Comment #70 posted by whig on May 15, 2006 at 18:32:16 PT

Peter Jennings
http://youtube.com/watch?v=yt6PHhOZ32g
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Comment #69 posted by FoM on May 15, 2006 at 18:32:00 PT

Whig
Thank you. That makes sense. They seem totally different.
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Comment #68 posted by FoM on May 15, 2006 at 18:25:55 PT

Sam
I believe we are going backwards too. I always believed that marijuana was going to be legal back in the late 70s but then when the cocaine generation ( I don't know what to call that particular generation ) started to enter the picture it stopped any further progress. I really was heart broken and thought well maybe in many years we can finally fix the laws around marijuana but the cocaine issue was too much for me to handle. 
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Comment #67 posted by whig on May 15, 2006 at 18:24:08 PT

FoM
You asked about the difference between MDMA and LSD. It really isn't very similar at all but maybe I can try to explain somewhat. MDMA is more similar to Cannabis than it is to LSD. It is physically very sensual, it makes someone far more conscious of their body and their skin. LSD is very intellectual and sort of icy in terms of interpersonal communication, MDMA is ultra-emotional and loving of people.Both increase intelligence in some sense but in different ways and some people even combine them. My sense of it is that MDMA is far more of a clearmind, LSD more analytical.
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Comment #66 posted by Sam Adams on May 15, 2006 at 17:22:54 PT

one more comment
Personally, I've avoided drugs that come in a pill and I prefer sticking to plants that come out of the ground (cannabis, mushrooms, tea, etc). But to me, the most insulting aspect of these drugs is that someone else is controlling me and this country is supposed to be free. I'm trusted with operating a 2-ton motor vehicle that barrels down the highway at 80 miles an hour with children all around in passing cars. 45,000 people per year are killed this way. Yet I can't sit in my yard and take a hit of LSD. It's the hypocrisy that drives me crazy.Some doctor can hand out Paxil like it's candy, yet YOU can't choose to eat mushrooms or take LSD. 100 years ago I could take whatever I damn well pleased. Today's system is supposed to more advanced? This is progress? Treating people as if they're so dumb they can't even decide what to put in their body? I would've thought utopia would have smart people that didn't need someone else telling them how to live. No, I think we're moving backwards. People are getting dumber and less healthy every year. We've got a bunch of nice computers & flat-screen TVs, but we're in worse shape every year.
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Comment #65 posted by John Tyler on May 15, 2006 at 17:10:48 PT

Peter Jennings
A year before he died Peter Jennings did a television show where he came out and said the Fed. campaign against MDMA (Ecstasy) was a bunch of lies.   
I think the researcher should try their own stuff, otherwise they will have no understanding. One must taste the fruit to truly appreciate it.

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Comment #64 posted by FoM on May 15, 2006 at 16:37:50 PT

Thanks JR
The black and white version was really good. 
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Comment #63 posted by JR Bob Dobbs on May 15, 2006 at 16:30:52 PT

MK-ULTRA footage
Here is some footage of soldiers during official government LSD experiments. 97 seconds in B&W: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SX7m4fqTLKUAnother 30 seconds in color: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pc5cifJF4XA
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Comment #62 posted by FoM on May 15, 2006 at 16:22:08 PT

Whig I Have a Question
I have no knowledge of MDMA so I really am not able to comment on it but can you compare the difference between LSD ( I understand that ) and MDMA? Is it like LSD or is it like Methamphetamine or what is it like that I might be able to understand.
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Comment #61 posted by FoM on May 15, 2006 at 15:55:43 PT

Whig
It really is rare to see an article about this topic in a paper as big as the Boston Globe. I really want to help change the laws on Cannabis but this also is an article about the right to have the use of a substance that will help people who are very seriously ill. Being able to leave this world in a better way for the person and family is important I believe.
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Comment #60 posted by FoM on May 15, 2006 at 15:47:17 PT

Just a Comment
I have totally enjoyed this thread. Thank you all for your thoughts. It is very mind expanding to use a old term hey? LOL!
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Comment #59 posted by whig on May 15, 2006 at 15:46:16 PT

Hmm
I'm a little disconcerted that this news item has nothing particularly to do with cannabis, because I think it is opening the door to a much broader discussion of drug policy which usually is restricted to the comments. Basically I feel like I have a lot to say which is generally off-topic here and suddenly it is not. Do we want to make MDMA-news part of CNews as a general principle or is this just an exception?First, I don't agree with Max that MDMA is non-addictive. It is potentially addictive. It has physical tolerance and withdrawal. Those who use it to excess find it loses the "magical" effect and becomes largely indistinguishable from speed. MDMA is a methamphetamine at least in part, and it has similar potentials. That is not to say it is merely speed. MDMA is a true empathogen.Most experienced people will say that it should not be used more often than once in six months. Few actually seem to hold to that constraint, and frequently it is found that one is using it too often and must stop completely, for at least a few years.MDMA increases mental and emotional aptitudes and removes barriers to conversation and thoughts that otherwise are too painful. It is a painkiller, both physically and emotionally and spiritually. But this painkilling effect is short in duration, a few hours. It cannot be taken for this purpose on an ongoing basis.It is possible to overdose MDMA. Even apart from the street adulterants which others have mentioned, it is not an entirely harmless molecule. There is scant evidence that it causes toxicity in most people at ordinary doses. Some people may have problems metabolizing it and may be at greater health risk.Should I talk more about this? I've done a lot of work in harm reduction specifically relating to MDMA.
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Comment #58 posted by museman on May 15, 2006 at 15:42:50 PT

max
OK, the BZ variation on LSD research qualifies it as something other than pure LSD 25 (which I accept) and those who have been able to tell the tales of the actual experimentation done with LSD through the military have a much different tale, one that is usually hilarious, but (though you may be right) the use of LSD definitely played a part in Viet NAm, so it is a reasonable assumption.Oh and if I had those kinds of terrible visions-to that degree, I would have discorporated a long time ago. Lol.
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Comment #57 posted by runderwo on May 15, 2006 at 15:17:21 PT

a few things
The first thing these people need to realize is that "Ecstacy" and "acid" are brand names. They are not chemicals. MDMA and LSD are chemicals. Unfortunately, what is sold as "Ecstacy" and "acid" is rarely pure MDMA or pure LSD. This leads people to draw erroneous conclusions about properties of the pure psychedelic chemicals. Then these conclusions about the brand names are used to further prohibition against the chemicals, when in fact there is rarely any hard connection whatsoever. This prohibition is used to discourage research on the pure chemicals, which completes the chain of circular reasoning.Also, I believe Kesey and Leary's approaches were a mistake. You cannot shock society into acceptance of an activity that only insiders can understand. It was obvious to many that what they were doing was going to lead to a prohibition. Their research and writing was interesting and relevant, but their political aptitude was severely lacking, and we are STILL paying the price for it 40 years later in the realm of psychedelics. Leary also had the Marihuana Tax Act overturned just in time for marijuana to be included in the brand new Controlled Substances Act - which his very actions were forcing in the eyes of conservative society. Double whammy.My advice to anyone considering taking "Ecstacy" or "acid" today would be to NOT take it, unless you know the chemist personally, or you have someone who was around pre-prohibition to test it and assure you of the authenticity of a particular sample.
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Comment #56 posted by Max Flowers on May 15, 2006 at 15:04:44 PT

museman
Not to nitpick, but the film Jacob's Ladder had nothing to do with LSD. There is mention at the end that the US military experimented with a hallucinogen called BZ (which they still deny, of course), and we know that in the real world the CIA and the Army did experiment with LSD on unwitting subjects, but in the film in question, it plays no role.Maybe the hallucinations portrayed in the film reminded you strongly of LSD visions you've had...? (If so, I feel for ya)
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Comment #55 posted by FoM on May 15, 2006 at 14:46:19 PT

museman
You said: We used to have what we called "ground control" which was one or two "experienced" brothers/sisters not partaking-like a designated driver kind of. They provided the 'reality anchor' so that no one got lost on the journey.That's the way it was suppose to be. A reality anchor as you put it was a necessary part of having a safe and constructive trip. My friend told me that was always done during her times of experimenting with LSD.Never trip alone and always have someone not partaking to bring you back if you start having a bad trip.dongenero thank you for the link.
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Comment #54 posted by museman on May 15, 2006 at 14:42:03 PT

dongenero
Thanks!
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Comment #53 posted by museman on May 15, 2006 at 14:39:22 PT

then there was
The 'dark side' of the psychedelic advent.Shortly after it became illegal, cia instigators (present in almost every event of any potential impact) infiltrated and created (similar to the meth-culture they have created) 'street chemists' who made various forms of 'acid' known to contain anything from strychnine to some kind of laced amphetamine. They successfully contaminated the mainstream with bad bad stuff.Then there were the 'cosmic trippers' the 'psychedelic pranksters' whose intent was always about 'fun.'For several years, on into the early eighties, many of us in the 'underground counterculture' had a few codes by which proper 'psychedelic etiquette' (righteous behavior) was observed.A somewhat 'universal psychedelic prime directive' was created in the form of what was known as "The Electric Kool Aid Acid Test." Kind of like the 'Gom Jabbar' in DUNE; Are you human or not?If you see your brother/sister floundering in chaos and confusion, are you going laugh at their condition, or make an attempt to help them out? That's the acid test. I have to say I witnessed many many failures of that test.We used to have what we called "ground control" which was one or two "experienced" brothers/sisters not partaking-like a designated driver kind of. They provided the 'reality anchor' so that no one got lost on the journey.Those codes were pretty much lost except in some very special places and times, and the 'cosmic mind f---ers' kind of took over, just like some kind of demons have taken over the world.LSD was used by the government in an attempt to 'create a better soldier' (see the movie Jacobs Ladder).It was used to simulate a controlled state of insanity for the various puppets made of many mentally ill people. They have attepmted to use it as a 'brainwashing' tool. I know of at least one assasin who demonstrates this fact.They have suceeded in implanting agent provocateurs that support and bankroll the disruptive elements that inhabit all the known sanctuaries, and contaminated the experience for so many. I question whether it is even possible to have such an experience truly, and safely these days.
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Comment #52 posted by dongenero on May 15, 2006 at 14:19:14 PT

Neurologic
http://www.noveltynet.org/content/books/neurologic/
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Comment #51 posted by FoM on May 15, 2006 at 14:02:39 PT

museman
I didn't know that. One of my best girl friends while growing up and was a couple years older then I was went to Berkeley to college. I was so sheltered and niave and so was she. We both went to Catholic School and I don't need to say much more about how different it was back then.She wrote me letters and told me about how they had controlled trips on LSD. It was legal and she described this one scene that I will never forget. Mind you this was under the guidance of a trained professional and they took classes to prepare for the experience so it would be right. She decided to lay down under a glass top table and stared at it and it melted in front of her eyes. She said it was the most unbelievable experience. She returned to PA and is a lawyer there. 
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Comment #50 posted by museman on May 15, 2006 at 13:55:12 PT

FoM: Tim Leary
You will notice that the book "Neurologic" is not on that list. It is a banned book, has been banned since it was written in 1965-the year they made LSD illegal.
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Comment #49 posted by FoM on May 15, 2006 at 13:53:42 PT

global_warming
I'm sorry that you live in an area that isn't advancing in a progressive manner. At least that what I get from what you are saying. It's time for people to wake up.
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Comment #48 posted by FoM on May 15, 2006 at 13:51:05 PT

For Those Who Don't Know Timothy Leary
It's possible some of the younger folks really don't understand the impact he had on so many people. I checked and his web site is down for renovations but this helps to explain why so many appreciated him.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timothy_Leary
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Comment #47 posted by global_warming on May 15, 2006 at 13:34:31 PT

that will be the day
When I looked out in the audience, I didn't see rednecks," Maquire says with a chuckle. "I saw a more progressive crowd." Progressive, straight right into some rotting Progressive prison,yeah right so far from the left,and so far what is happening,here in river city,
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Comment #46 posted by museman on May 15, 2006 at 13:34:16 PT

hyperspatial grace
G_W, you made a very important statement;"This marvel of LSD Has only brought us,Dead seeds and a deeper control"There is a slight error in the 'only.'The vision and imagination that percieved the DNA, for example, provided the substance for the vulture-like entrepeneur to take to the market, but in itself was not the cause of the action taken, incorrect or otherwise.The fact that the discovery of the semi-conducting properties of silicon (which I beleive also have something to do with an incident in Roswell N.M. in 1947) has led to 'deeper control' via the enhanced record keeping and surveilance technologies of the digital age, does not change the fact that it's very state of copying the workings of the human mind/brain has given much insight into the human mind/brain.For example; myself. I was a victim of irradiated cows milk (a little known or spoken about side effect of nuclear testing in the 40's and 50's) and have had an underactive thyroid gland, which when I approached puberty became pretty apparent. Though my mind was fine, my brain wasn't.At the age of 17, having not started puberty yet, there was a stark contrast between my abilities to say take and ace any test, and my inability to answer simple questions in a verbal interaction, my parents figured something wasn't quite right.While the doctor was explaining to my mother (in the other room) that I had an extreme thyroid deficiency, one that could very easily have resulted in 'mental retardation' he also explained to her the actual condition of my neural system. I understood that the ganglia of the neurons were too far apart, and it literally took more energy to span the gap and complete the sequences of neuron firings, which constitute the summoning of information from the storage areas of the brain. When taking tests, I felt no pressure, no threat, but when having to deal in a social way, my brain would literally shut down. Everyone assumed I was retarded. I was medicated, but it wasn't working fast enough for me, so I took matters in to my own hands during my 17th summer, and tripled my dosage of thyroid-because I had a lot of catching up to do. I lost over 40 pounds, grew about 3 1/2 inches, more than 4 years of puberty in one summer.The next thing you know I was in the Navy. They stopped giving me thyroid, for reasons which get really really sticky-having to do with our governments various covert programs.My mind had had no time to deal. After escaping the military, I tried college. I saw so many around me walking around with a particular smile on their face, that I had to investigate.One night I was at an underground party, a lot of 'differently strange' people, someone handed me a book.
It was called 'Neurologic' and it was written by Timothy Leary.To summerize; Tim claimed that by the proper directed use of LSD one could reprogram their own neural net!Since I understood this to be a singular weakness of my own mind and being, within a week I would put Tims theory to the test. The result has been that until recently (due to factors such as maybe even not doing lsd, age, and onset of diabetes-which is relative to that initial irradiated milk) I was able to reprogram my brain, as well as open up other parts which are latent faculties most people laugh at. I spent over 20 years without needing thyroid medications.With my understanding of how computers work, I was able to get a much clearer image of my own mind/brain, which has also aided me in other understandings such as the possibility of integrating our individual 'mind terminals' into a kind of 'collective neural gestalt' similar in a thought/psychic/spiritual sense to the internet.The point I am making is that ideas themselves can be taken in at least 2 directions; creative or destructive, and if the systems in place support fear-based-destructive technologies over faith/belief-based creative technologies, then what expectation can there be of responsible and proper usage of anything?FoM;If they (CSN&Y) get close enough I'll try to sneak in or something.
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Comment #45 posted by FoM on May 15, 2006 at 13:21:47 PT

mayan
From the CBS article about the Dixie Chicks. I really liked this.Quote: "When I looked out in the audience, I didn't see rednecks," Maquire says with a chuckle. "I saw a more progressive crowd." 

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Comment #44 posted by global_warming on May 15, 2006 at 13:15:44 PT

go Cannabis
and those states,nj, ak, cn, pa, and ny...these peoplesee and understandwhat this world can be,what a wonderful world.
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Comment #43 posted by FoM on May 15, 2006 at 13:09:13 PT

Mayan
Good analogy. The Dixie Chicks are number one in Amazon sales today. Go Dixie Chicks! 
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Comment #42 posted by global_warming on May 15, 2006 at 13:07:03 PT

so true
the true reaper
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Comment #41 posted by mayan on May 15, 2006 at 12:58:50 PT

Don't Fear The Reaper
I believe one reason the government doesn't like psychadelics is because those substances can help us to better deal with the concept of death. In a sense, they can ease our fear of death. If we don't fear the reaper why would we fear the government? On an unrelated note, this guy has the right idea...Chavez: Imprison 'genocidal' Bush:
http://tinyurl.com/mvttnSo do these girls...Dixie Chicks: Not Ready to Make Nice: 
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2006/05/11/60minutes/main1611424.shtmlTHE WAY OUT IS THE WAY IN...Kevin Barrett: Media hide truth: 9/11 was inside job: 
http://www.madison.com/tct/opinion/column/index.php?ntid=83698&ntpid=1Civilian Debate Team selected to debate government account of 9/11: 
http://www.scholarsfor911truth.org/DebatePressRelease8May2006.htmlTHE NATIONAL 9/11 DEBATE:
http://www.teamliberty.net/id244.html'United 93' Promotes 9/11 Govt Conspiracy Theory:  
http://911review.org/Wiki/flight_93_movie.htmlWhy NORAD Interceptors Couldn't Catch Those 9/11 Boeings:
http://rense.com/general71/catch.htmVideo: Everybody's Gotta Learn Sometime: 
http://www.911blogger.com/2006/05/video-everybodys-gotta-learn-sometime.htmlVideo: TAKE BACK 9/11:
http://www.archive.org/details/BrianMichelsTAKEBACK911
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Comment #40 posted by global_warming on May 15, 2006 at 12:57:28 PT

i once
wrote to the vaticanthey never answered me,can you wonder?do you wonder?I can pray,For my neighbor, 
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Comment #39 posted by global_warming on May 15, 2006 at 12:50:53 PT

is a bargain
that brings the disgracearound the bottomless pit,What A Wonderful world,
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Comment #38 posted by global_warming on May 15, 2006 at 12:47:34 PT

re: that better world
a world, when the fruits of our laborscannot be harvested by those who have onlysigned a treaty or agreement,a bargain that is made in ignorance,
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Comment #37 posted by global_warming on May 15, 2006 at 12:35:51 PT

sorry
max and lady fom,my foot is marching along,in this world.I Am, not your enemy,I see a better world
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Comment #36 posted by Max Flowers on May 15, 2006 at 12:23:08 PT

Sorry, g_w
I jumped the gun there. You weren't even talking about Jesus there. My apologies. I confess, it's also hard for me to understand a lot of what you post sometimes. But that one was pretty straightforward, and I agree with it.My bad... carry on...
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Comment #35 posted by FoM on May 15, 2006 at 12:22:20 PT

museman
I really appreciate you. I wish you could go with us to see Neil and CSN. I wish everyone from CNews could join us.
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Comment #34 posted by Max Flowers on May 15, 2006 at 12:19:07 PT

g_w
Hyperspace, as I playfully meant it, IS here and now. It's not something that is easy to describe to someone that hasn't experienced it. I have no idea what your life experience is, but I know that people who have never tried a literal entheogenic sacrament (as opposed to the wine and wafer only) will not understand what I'm talking about. I don't mean to stir up your religious ire, but I notice that you post quite frequently about your religious beliefs, uncontested. At this moment, we're talking about something that is part of my, and many others' spiritual beliefs and it doesn't interface too well with Christianity (although I have seen the combination in a few rare, very open-minded individuals). Maybe you could let it go, just like I regularly let the hundreds of Christian related posts you post here go without debate...? 
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Comment #33 posted by global_warming on May 15, 2006 at 12:11:59 PT

Let's not forget Mullis and Crick
In the meantime,
Corporate Interests,Have learned how to modify the genes of plants,This marvel of LSD Has only brought us,Dead seeds and a deeper control
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Comment #32 posted by Max Flowers on May 15, 2006 at 12:05:57 PT

Let's not forget Mullis and Crick
Kary Mullis has admitted that LSD helped him develop the PCR method that amplifies specific DNA sequences. In other words he invented the "DNA testing" that all police agencies use. Plus Nobel-prize-winner Francis Crick, discoverer of the double helix structure of DNA, also has said he received inspiration for his scientific ideas from LSD.
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Comment #31 posted by global_warming on May 15, 2006 at 12:05:20 PT

"hyperspatial grace"!
Grace, is here and now,Not some future place and time,'We those people, in this world,Can come together, to end this war,On people, on children and to all the Mothers,With one swift handThis bloodshed can end.
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Comment #30 posted by FoM on May 15, 2006 at 11:58:34 PT

museman
I only experienced LSD a couple times and I learned a lot about many different things during those trips. I stepped into a world that was nothing like I ever experienced and I learned from those experiences. LSD doesn't make a person turn into a LSD addicted person or anything close. LSD helped me to not want to do Meth. Now since I was a speed freak that to me was a miracle.
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Comment #29 posted by Max Flowers on May 15, 2006 at 11:51:49 PT

museman
Wow! Very nicely said.You are your own example. I can tell you have had that pure information bestowed to you in a state of "hyperspatial grace"!
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Comment #28 posted by global_warming on May 15, 2006 at 11:51:07 PT

and
peace
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Comment #27 posted by global_warming on May 15, 2006 at 11:49:44 PT

so true
and wow
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Comment #26 posted by museman on May 15, 2006 at 11:42:57 PT

FoM#2
"I say it was LSD and marijuana and Leary's teaching that opened people's minds to what is wrong with society. We have plenty wrong with society now."Thank you. Thank you. One of my worst nightmares is that I wil go to my death leaving a world that believes all our psychedelic experience was nothing more than a 'drug party.'In a sane world, such experiences would be sought after as wisdom. There is a lot that modern folks take for granted that may have never happened if it were not for the psychedelic enhancement of some very intelligent people's imaginations.We wouldn't have the knowlege of DNA. Watson recently admitted using LSD to enhance his understanding of the DNA molecule, actually he admitted that he 'discovered' DNA while under the influence.We likely as not would not be having this medium of the internet, and the user interface we take for granted known as GUI, and the mouse. The phenomenon of the 'micro chip' and the silicon semiconductor revolution may never have happened at all.The colors we now take for granted that are in everything, are a stark contrast to the black and white humdrum of the fifties and early sixties. Without the psychedelic experience, an incredible amount of video and musical productions would have never happened. All these things are a direct result of our generational experience of the colors and patterns of life, expanded into our immediate awareness through the use of psychedelics.The kind of thinking that is hailed by the power elite as 'proper' and 'right' was despoiled quite easily when stacked up against the true reality which was revealed to some of us in our search for intelligent life on planet earth via the use of such sacraments as LSD, Psilicybin, and Peyote. 
The psychedelics obviously scared the powers and principalities quite badly. I mean if all you have to do to see the truth and become enlightened (of course it is not even that simple) is ingest a few hundred mics of LSD, that kind of shakes up their 10 thousand+ year old plan of conquest, aquisition, and slavery of planet earth.Marijuana is noted for achieving similar, albeit maybe less 'spectacular' results, so pot smokers scare them even more, because of it's widespread use.The emporers are naked. Their power is an illusion that is fueled by the ingorance and fears of the masses. The people always had the power, but were too bereft of known options and too full of unknown fears.The time is upon us where only the people can save our planetary home, and the life that we haven't yet destroyed in the interests of supporting the cap of the pyramid. Only the people whose basic interests are the same; Peace, sustenance, reasonable comfort, and some kind of honest recognition of Greater Spirit (God), can effect the changes that need to be implemented. As long as we continue to delegate our natural and inherent earthly human authority to those whose intent and purposes are selfish and destructive, then we can only watch in horror as it all comes crashing down around us.These sacraments that have been given to us by that 'Greater Spirit' are blessings that history (if there is one) will regard with thankfullness and reverence, while those human parasites with their gold, their silver, and their other dead things they value so ridiculously high, will be regarded as the epitomy of humanity's darkest hour, and the evilist of men and women ever to walk the earth.peace
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Comment #25 posted by FoM on May 15, 2006 at 11:30:24 PT

Dankhank 
I haven't formed an opinion on MDMA. I can only form an opinion on what I have experienced. One of the things that makes me angry are those that oppose reform have no concept of a particular substance. How can anyone be an expert unless they have experienced the substance? We women are regular chatty kathys. Women have to talk to children more then men and that keeps them open I think.
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Comment #24 posted by global_warming on May 15, 2006 at 11:27:06 PT

in that meantime
I see trees of green........ red roses too
I see íem bloom..... for me and for you
And I think to myself.... what a wonderful world.I see skies of blue..... clouds of white
Bright blessed days....dark sacred nights
And I think to myself .....what a wonderful world.The colors of a rainbow.....so pretty ..in the sky
Are also on the faces.....of people ..going by
I see friends shaking hands.....sayiní.. how do you do
Theyíre really sayiní......i love you.I hear babies cry...... I watch them grow
Theyíll learn much more.....than Iíll never know
And I think to myself .....what a wonderful worldThe colors of a rainbow.....so pretty ..in the sky
Are there on the faces.....of people ..going by
I see friends shaking hands.....sayiní.. how do you do
Theyíre really sayiní...*spoken*(I ....love....you).I hear babies cry...... I watch them grow
*spoken*(you know their gonna learn
A whole lot more than Iíll never know)
And I think to myself .....what a wonderful world
Yes I think to myself .......what a wonderful world.

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Comment #23 posted by Dankhank on May 15, 2006 at 11:25:54 PT

MDMA
A reasoned approach to the topichttp://www.maps.org/mdma/Even the government concedes that the worst that can happen is some discomfort ...http://www.drugabuse.gov/DrugPages/MDMA.html
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Comment #22 posted by Dankhank on May 15, 2006 at 11:21:11 PT

FoM
I agree that women can open up better than men.All those "hen parties" are quite the mental cathartic.few societies encourage men to "open up" like that and we, men, suffer for it.don't write it off, though. In the seventies MDMA was used for treatment initially, but filtered to the street and got a bad name.
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Comment #21 posted by FoM on May 15, 2006 at 11:12:44 PT

Dankhank
 Maybe it's harder for guys to open up. I never had that problem after what I learned from the 60s. Men are structured differently then women. I weigh what I say publically but that's the only time I keep my thoughts to myself. I can be quite a motor mouth! LOL!
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Comment #20 posted by FoM on May 15, 2006 at 11:08:53 PT

global_warming 
Yup I'm still kickin'
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Comment #19 posted by Dankhank on May 15, 2006 at 11:06:12 PT

hear hear ...
Max, you describe the experience well.Under it's influence a person will "solve" their own problems simply by talking and thinking.LSD is like that, perhaps less emphatic and a trifle more chaotic in nature.Used responsibly, as we all try to do, (don't we?), MDMA clears the cobwebs from your mind. All becomes clear ...
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Comment #18 posted by global_warming on May 15, 2006 at 11:05:53 PT

you did meth
and are still alive,I smoked grass,But never gatewayed to Heroin,
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Comment #17 posted by FoM on May 15, 2006 at 10:59:23 PT

Max Flowers 
I did plenty of Meth back in the 70s but never any MDMA. 
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Comment #16 posted by global_warming on May 15, 2006 at 10:58:16 PT

re: comment 13
I think that is what is at the core of the separation of church and state.
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Comment #15 posted by Max Flowers on May 15, 2006 at 10:56:41 PT

FoM
I agree with a lot of your feelings on this subject. I also find myself thinking, "if she only knew how blissful the MDMA state is..."To me it is something every human being should experience at least once. It's THAT special. It is so magical in fact that it is in my view sacramental in nature. It could melt the heart of the most hardened, hateful terrorist!And the thing that really amazes me (and is really pretty unfortunate in a way) is that it is but a mere methylene-dioxy away from methamphetamine. The two are so closely related structurally (chemically), yet a universe apart in their effects.
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Comment #14 posted by Sam Adams on May 15, 2006 at 10:50:36 PT

Max
Yes, I wonder if people are "engaged" after drinking a 12-pack of Busch Light. Good thing it's in Schedule 1 and reserved only for terminally ill patients, eh?Whadda country! You can smoke Marlboro Reds until you're flat in bed, dying of cancer, but don't pop an MDMA, or we'll throw you in jail!The article didn't really get into that, did they? They sort of mentioned how everyone's using aliases, but they didn't mention why. The Governor, State Legislature, state DA's, cops, and everyone else right on down the line is sworn to arrest and imprison this girl for taking a couple MDMA pills. The laws orders that she be taken from her bed and put into prison.Perhaps the ONDCP can fund some research showing that a bottle of Jack Daniels and a carton of cigs is better for end-of-life care?
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Comment #13 posted by FoM on May 15, 2006 at 10:46:57 PT

A Quality Death
Dying is something that everyone must do and we should make the transition as comfortable as possible for the person. If a person is having a hard time accepting death then any substance that helps them should always be allowed. Politics and dying shouldn't even be an issue. 
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Comment #12 posted by Max Flowers on May 15, 2006 at 10:43:43 PT

Sam
Thanks, I will. I already sent a version to the "letters" address, but will send a version to the alleged journalist himself.
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Comment #11 posted by Max Flowers on May 15, 2006 at 10:42:09 PT

afterburner
Excellent point. I was so worked up about the other thing that I didn't see that. It deserves its own retort as well.To this point, I would add that anyone saying that nonsense about being "fully engaged" has obviously never tried MDMA. One of its most striking qualities is that the user is absolutely and fully present in the moment---NOT wasted and dopey and disengaged... the opposite, in fact. It makes one more centered and reflective than they have ever been before.There is so much misinformation, disinformation, confusion and misunderstanding about "drugs", it is a wonder anyone learns anything.Last night I was at Mother's Day dinner with my mom and stepdad, and my stepdad (an ultra-straight, Jesuit-school educated, bigoted unrepentant Republican) made the supercilious statement "I have absolutely no empathy for people who use drugs." I said (thinking "so much for your alleged Christian/Catholic compassion!) "Really? Does that include US fighter pilots who are given amphetamines to take on long missions?" Well, this blew his mind---he had no idea, and refused to believe, that the military would give its members "DRUGS." His naivete astounded me.
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Comment #10 posted by Sam Adams on May 15, 2006 at 10:38:21 PT

some more info
max flowers - your comments are spot on, why not send them to the editor and also reporter? His email was printed in the paper version of this article, it's allen globe.com. I agree that he seems merely misinformed.Notice also the quote from ONDCP - MAPS isn't "just" seeking the "truth" because they're also funding a medical MJ project at UMass? A pure research project? More total doublespeak. "he's not really trying to do research, because he's doing research". Yah, OK. Spend a few more billion of my taxes on this message & mabye I'll finally understand it.Another thing to note: There was a HUGE, nearly full-page anti-MJ ad from ONDCP in this newspaper today also. So when the ONDCP weighs in with their opinion (it sure as hell isn't fact), they're not merely another opinion, they're also an important customer, paying the salary of the people at the Globe.Again, I'd like to see MDMA weighed against other drugs they give dying patients - high-dose opiates that truly addict and damage the body's organs. Chemo that literally kills poisons you & kills your tissues.  But the High Priests of the Republican and Democrat clans don't want you to have any euphoria, at any cost. Death before euphoria! What a marvelous rallying cry for the most advanced health care system in human history.

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Comment #9 posted by FoM on May 15, 2006 at 10:36:01 PT

global_warming 
I know that's true. So much to put in order and just saying goodbye is very hard.
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Comment #8 posted by global_warming on May 15, 2006 at 10:34:28 PT

re: comment 6
Unfortunately that is when the mind is busiest, given all the questions and the 'mysteries, surely could it be any other way ?Life and Death and The Law, rest, peace and and end to suffering may yet be a little further away, further as in deeper into this magnificent universe.
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Comment #7 posted by Dankhank on May 15, 2006 at 10:23:02 PT

MDMA
Last night on the excellent SHO show, "Huff," Dr Huff undergoes treatment with MDMA from Dr Markova, played by Angelica Huston. The drug treatment is billed as a way to do a years worth of treatment in a few hours.It was a good example of the worth of using MDMA.The episode is "A Cornfield Grows in L.A."
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Comment #6 posted by FoM on May 15, 2006 at 10:19:31 PT

On A Personal Level
I wouldn't want to be more aware as death approached. Give me as much pain medicine as I can take and let me sleep and pass on. I have a busy mind and I wouldn't want it to busy then.
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Comment #5 posted by global_warming on May 15, 2006 at 10:07:27 PT

re: boundaries
"If we're altering their mental experience and their sense of . . . the dying process, then we're crossing some boundaries that need to be very highly considered," said Keith Meador, director of the theology and medicine program at Duke University Divinity School."Regarding boundaries, guess it is better to just lock them up, better yet, lock them up and let them suffer.
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Comment #4 posted by afterburner on May 15, 2006 at 10:02:36 PT

On 'altering a dying person's consciousness'
{But outside observers caution that psychedelic drug treatment is ethically risky: What begins as treatment for anxiety could become experiments in altering a dying person's consciousness. That, one analyst said, could take away from someone's ability to be fully engaged at the end of life.{"If we're altering their mental experience and their sense of . . . the dying process, then we're crossing some boundaries that need to be very highly considered," said Keith Meador, director of the theology and medicine program at Duke University Divinity School.}"fully engaged at the end of life." You mean like dying patients doped up on opiate-based pain medications routinely used in end of life pain treatments?Yes, we also need to ask questions about how opiate-based pain medications are "altering their mental experience and their sense of . . . the dying process."
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Comment #3 posted by Max Flowers on May 15, 2006 at 09:52:43 PT

Patently false!
Though ecstasy is addictive and can damage hearts and brain cells,This statement is at best a very gross error, and at worst a purposeful lie. MDMA is most definitely NOT addictive! This is a known fact. "Addictive" is a clinical term, and when clinical terms are used, they have to be applicable in fact.  "Addictive" refers to a substance that causes nagging cravings, changes peoples' behavior toward obtaining that substance on a regular basis, and produces withdrawal symptoms. Withdrawal syndrome is the hallmark of addiction, and MDMA absolutely does not cause that in any shape or form. In fact, the vast majority of users use it very infrequently, like once a month or once every few months.Of course there are a small segment of users who have no self control whatsoever and use it far more often and come to believe they are dependent on it, but that is a different matter entirely, related to disorders of those users' personalities and psychologies---not MDMA itself. MDMA also has absolutely not been shown conclusively (clinically, as in by actual scientific studies) to cause heart damage or brain cell damage. There is controversy about the neuronal aspects, but no scientific proof whatsoever. The thrust of this article does not seem to be anti-MDMA or anti-drug, so I will presume that with its false statements this writer is simply parroting something he heard or read elsewhere. I plan to write to him immediately to educate him. However, it's too bad that with his article, which seems to want to explore the issue of medical use of entheogens, he has already done more damage than good by spreading negative falsehoods about the substance in question.
 
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Comment #2 posted by FoM on May 15, 2006 at 09:51:40 PT

A Comment on The Article
Why say this?Excerpt: ''This is not Leary saying to young people . . . ''Take LSD. Drop out, and we're going to change society,' " said Rick Doblin, president of the Multidisciplinary Association for Psychedelic Studies, an advocacy group that has pushed for resumption of psychedelic studies for years. ''This is something that can be helpful to people who have never done drugs before, and after they are done, they are not going to go out and undermine the foundations of our society."I say it was LSD and marijuana and Leary's teaching that opened people's minds to what is wrong with society. We have plenty wrong with society now.
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Comment #1 posted by FoM on May 15, 2006 at 09:12:51 PT

Off Topic: A Question
How do people from the southern states feel about Bush militarizing the border? 
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