cannabisnews.com: What's The Real Damage With Weed?










††What's The Real Damage With Weed?

Posted by CN Staff on February 21, 2006 at 08:36:13 PT
By Gavin Godfrey†
Source: Daily Orange†

New York -- Everyone was doing it. David Gil, a senior at State University of New York Upstate Medical University, watched with utter amazement at the different types of people indulging in the act. There were young kids his age, corporate businessmen in three-piece suits, elderly couples and mothers and fathers all smoking marijuana.
Gil remembers every element of the Amsterdam coffee shop he visited with his brother and three close friends during last winter break. The pub-esque style cafť had an intimate atmosphere to it, equipped with posh, brown leather couches, round tables and dim lighting. Gil and his friends approached the register where the marijuana was put on display in a glass case, reminiscent of the local bakeries in his native New Jersey. The freedom to purchase and consume the product in public thrilled his friends with every pre-rolled joint."It was the most relaxing environment I've ever experienced," Gil said. "There was no worry of the law, the hype and the stress."After leaving the shop, Gil and his friends trekked the Amsterdam streets, and the vibe carried them throughout the intricate paths and avenues of the European city. Gil recalls the numerous people walking outside smoking joints and hanging out on streets, taking hits from assorted glass devices; however, when he noticed everyone seemed to be smoking cigarettes as well, Gil stopped to contemplate the serious health effects of marijuana."If you think about it, cigs are killing people every day," Gil said. "These people were smoking weed and cigs and seemed content with life. We all know that cigs are bad, but what's the real damage with (weed)?"The DamageAccording to studies, no human being has died as a direct result of marijuana consumption. But when it comes to the negative health aspects of marijuana, the list is long. Marijuana users can and will experience any of the following: paranoia, dry mouth, respiratory problems, heart problems, inability to concentrate, impaired memory and motivation loss.Unlike other drugs, the more serious and immediate health concerns of marijuana are not as urgent as harder drugs like cocaine, heroin and Ecstasy, but that's not to say the ganja, green, bud, Kill Bill, "blueberry yum yum," "Presidential" or whatever alias you choose is devoid of all negative health occurrences."The attitude with college students is that they don't see marijuana as benign as, say, cigarettes or more (long-term damaging drugs)," said Dr. Bruce Carter, associate dean of faculty in the child and families studies department. "It is true that marijuana is not as harmful as some of these other drugs, but that does not mean that the drug is not benign."Carter is partial to his focus on child development and acknowledges marijuana's effect on unborn children, saying he worries about his current students' drug use and the futures of their children. He agrees with the information detailed in brochures circulated by Syracuse University Health Services, which describes the various heath concerns of the drug. Marijuana can cause abnormally light birth weights, as well corrupt the fetus respiratory and cardiac development, according to the pamphlet.Carter couldn't agree more."Kids will use marijuana with a smile and wonder why they have breathing problems in 30 years," said Carter. "In turn, they'll be asking similar questions for their newborn children."Now and ThenThe origins of marijuana can be traced to China, around 6,000 B.C. The Chinese farmers grew cannabis seeds and cultivated the crop for profit. Today, cannabis serves two very distinct purposes: medicinal use and the pastime of just getting high.According to -- http://www.Erowid.com -- a Web site with the mission of "documenting the complex relationship between humans and psychoactive," 31 percent of the U.S. population ages 12 and older has smoked marijuana. Erowid provides information on any drug, from naming its effects to providing more literature on understanding a particular substance. Using consumer reports and assorted marijuana surveys, Erowid estimates the yearly retail value of marijuana at around $10 billion. On college campuses around the country, students are buying into this growing business by the ounce, filling their Tommy Chong bongs and Dutch Masters to the brim with marijuana. According to Tibor Palfai, professor of SU's Drugs and Human Behavior class in the psychology department, these findings should be of no surprise to anyone."Before the kids were smoking it, their parents were," Palfai said. "Everyone smokes, has smoked and pretty much will smoke because everyone has in the past."Palfai shuns the ignorance directed at marijuana by youth and adults alike and believes every smoker should know the habit's cons."It is obvious that (marijuana) is harmful," Palfai said. "The word 'drug' entails that the consumption is going to cause your body harm in some way, shape or form."Mary Jane's FutureAnother component of the marijuana debate is medicinal use. So far, nine states, including California, Oregon, Hawaii, Alaska, Washington, Maine, Colorado, Nevada and Vermont, have produced laws that have allowed the use of marijuana to aid in treatment for various diseases and the symptoms that follow.For some students, these new developments would suggest that even in light of the numerous health concerns, the United States is leaning more toward an Amsterdam-type culture, said Jordan Adams, a senior sociology major and non-user."I don't see our society as much different from theirs," Adams said. "People here smoke just as much as people over there, the only difference in the two comes in the form of the laws making it illegal."Adams has plenty of friends who spend their weekends slouched on couches, inhaling and exhaling every dollar and cent. On several occasions, Adams has been asked to join in the "cipher," but makes it a point to decline every time. Not because he's against the drug, but because he's more into his own well-being.The senior works out regularly and is focused on good health and staying alive. He admits that his friends who do use marijuana seem to cite stress relief and instant relaxation as the major reason for smoking, but that still is not enough to get Adams rocking Marley T-shirts and a pack of E-Z Widers."I've never felt the need to give into the whole (craze)," Adams said. "I'm not the type of person to do something just so I can relate to people and feel in the loop."Kieran Pickering, a junior psychology major, considers himself "in that loop." Growing up in Manhattan's Upper-East Side, Pickering's first experiences seeing marijuana are rooted in Central Park. As an eighth-grader moseying around the jogging paths of the famous city landmark, Pickering would often run into older kids smoking what look liked cigarettes. Pickering, a cigarette smoker, knew the smell was not that of his favorite Parliament Lights, but something else, something illegal."I've been in sticky situations involving (marijuana) since I was young," Pickering said. "Growing up in the city you run into all sorts of crazy characters; it's normal."Pickering mentioned the endless amounts of "weed delivery services" in New York. Similar to scenes of the cult classic film "Half Baked," these deliverymen travel on bikes or on foot and bring the product to the customer's front door. Think Domino's Pizza, with some "Sour Diesel" and "Dutchman's Haze" in place of the cheesy bread and wings.One would imagine that with marijuana-based enterprises like this, the concern for marijuana's more harmful aspects is a very low. Pickering does not see it as societal problem."(Weed) is everywhere, and it's not going anywhere," Pickering said. "Even if it did, people will sky dive, climb Everest, it doesn't matter. Any way that they can, people will do what they want to get high." Complete Title: Burnt Out: 'We All Know That Cigs Are Bad, but What's The Real Damage With Weed?'Source: Daily Orange, The (NY Edu)Author: Gavin GodfreyPublished: February 21, 2006Copyright: 2006 The Daily Orange CorporationContact: news dailyorange.comWebsite: http://www.dailyorange.com/CannabisNews -- Cannabis Archiveshttp://cannabisnews.com/news/list/cannabis.shtml

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Comment #251 posted by FoM on April 15, 2014 at 16:24:22 PT
Hope
Thank you. 
[ Post Comment ]


Comment #250 posted by Hope on April 15, 2014 at 16:05:51 PT
kppicker
What FoM is trying to tell you is that she can't mess with copyrighted work. It's not her work. It would be illegal for her to tamper with even one word of it. It belongs to the writer and the paper. I pulled the article up, myself, over at the Daily Orange. So, obviously, this isn't the only place the article can be seen.Even if she took it down and all the comments attached to it, it would still be up somewhere. The Daily Orange for one and even if it were removed from both sites, it likely is still represented on a mirror site... which, as I understand it, are used to overcome acts just like the one you are trying to pursue. Sorry for your anxiety, but I really think it will be fine if you are honest about it IF you are confronted about it.
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Comment #249 posted by Hope on April 15, 2014 at 15:58:50 PT
kppicker
You didn't say anything really incriminating and many people will agree with you, especially now. It's a college paper. You were a college student. You have a cool and unusual name. At times like this though, Larry Smith might have been an easier name to have.Don't be devastated or fearful about it. Own up to it, honestly, and tell them you are a prohibitionist now, if you are, if that's what you want to be seen as or need to be seen as.There's nothing incriminating in your comments in that article that should make anyone not want to hire you. You were just a young college student. Sounds, actually, like you were a pretty smart kid.If someone wouldn't hire you because of what you said then, you probably would be miserable working for them anyway.I wouldn't mention it to a prospective employer... and if he mentions it... tell the truth.
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Comment #248 posted by FoM on April 15, 2014 at 14:11:43 PT
kppicker
I think you are missing everything I have said. I really have explained it to you but you don't seem to understand. It is going to be on the Internet no matter what. I am done now. 
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Comment #247 posted by kppicker on April 15, 2014 at 13:22:06 PT:
Removal of My Name from this Article
I actually know the person who wrote the article. We are still in touch. If I get in contact with him is there anything he can possibly do to remove this article? 
What's the Real Damage with Weed?
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Comment #246 posted by FoM on April 15, 2014 at 11:30:57 PT
Hope
Thank you. I didn't think of that.
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Comment #245 posted by Hope on April 15, 2014 at 11:07:48 PT
This article
Is still available at the Daily Orange, as well.
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Comment #244 posted by FoM on April 15, 2014 at 10:24:55 PT
kppicker
If I did that I would be editing a writer's article. I was taught when I started doing CNews that is not allowed. There are reasons that are legal issues. Even if the article was removed it still will be in Google search and on the way back machine.
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Comment #243 posted by kppicker on April 15, 2014 at 08:06:11 PT:
Removal of My Last Name from this Article
Can you possibly just remove my last name from the article?
What's the Real Damage with Weed?
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Comment #242 posted by FoM on April 09, 2014 at 08:44:28 PT
kppicker
I can't edit an articles content but if it was in a comment I could delete it. I have removed comments for others in the past.
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Comment #241 posted by kppicker on April 09, 2014 at 08:02:42 PT:
Removal of My Name from this Article
Can I have my name removed from an article on your website?  You will see the Link URL below. I am in the process of looking for a new job and when my name is googled this article pops right up. I was misquoted on several occasions in this article and would like the article to be removed from your website. Thank you for your attention to this matter. 
What's the Real Damage with Weed?
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Comment #240 posted by whig on February 26, 2006 at 20:47:46 PT
Dankhank
It seems to me that by setting up the quantum experiment and then *deducing* the result without seeming to run the experiment itself, they did in fact run the experiment.Here's my thinking. They are not unifying sufficiently. They are thinking of the device they constructed as "the quantum computer" and themselves as something other than the quantum computer.Not so.The quantum computation took place, in their own deductive quantum mental state.
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Comment #239 posted by Dankhank on February 26, 2006 at 16:12:26 PT
Whig
Fantastic ... Quantum Mechanics is the craziest stuff ...It's been said that Quantum Mechanics has caused some scientists to acknowledge God.It certainly is the most puzzling science we have.
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Comment #238 posted by whig on February 26, 2006 at 12:54:39 PT
What the BLEEP - OT
Dankhank,http://www.news.uiuc.edu/news/06/0222quantum.html
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Comment #237 posted by global_warming on February 26, 2006 at 12:33:44 PT
who
has not been forgottenin this 'time for who controls this universe?it has 'always been 'us.for 'we are the people,'we make 'law,our gift from God,'we ministrate from our 'first breathto our last breath,'we 'witness,our place in this 'world,find your beautiful handhold that handbefore the 'Night,hold it firm and strongbefore Eternity,it is your handthat can 'hold 'my hand,before Eternity,
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Comment #236 posted by global_warming on February 26, 2006 at 12:12:09 PT
hint
it was that rabbi on that lonely wooden cross,
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Comment #235 posted by global_warming on February 26, 2006 at 11:53:33 PT
another strophe
Words and music by bob mitchell and nick grahamAnother night slowly closes in,
And I feel so lonely.
Touching heat freezing on my skin,
I pretend you still hold me.
Iím going crazy, Iím losing sleep.
Iím in too far, Iím in way too deep over you.
I canít believe youíre gone.
You were the first, youíll be the last.Wherever you go, Iíll be with you.
Whatever you want, Iíll give it to you.
Whenever you need someone to lay your heart and head upon.
Remember: after the fire, after all the rain,
I will be the flame.
I will be the flame.Watching shadows move across the wall,
I feel so frightened.
I wanna run to you, I wanna call,
But Iíve been hit by lightening.
Just canít stand up for falliní apart.
Canít see through this veil across my heart, over you.
Youíll always be the one.
You were the first, youíll be the last.Wherever you go, Iíll be with you.
Whatever you want, Iíll give it to you.
Whenever you need someone to lay your heart and head upon.
Remember: after the fire, after all the rain,
I will be the flame.
I will be the flame.Iím going crazy, Iím losing sleep.
Iím in too far, Iím in way too deep over you.
Youíll always be the one.
You were the first, youíll be the last.Wherever you go, Iíll be with you.
Whatever you want, Iíll give it to you.
Whenever you need someone to lay your heart and head upon.
Remember: after the fire, after all the rain,
I will be the flame.
I will be the flame.Whatever you want, Iíll give it to you.
Wherever you go, Iíll be with you.
And whatever you want, Iíll give it to you.
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Comment #234 posted by global_warming on February 26, 2006 at 11:38:46 PT
some lyrics
Hey little ladiesThereís some cool young dudeJust standiní in lineWaitiní for youThereís a girl in the corner
With a jacked up dress
Sheís got legs for miles but
But her face looks a messChorus
Thereís always something for everyone
But a love can be suicideOh yeahItís just what youíve been waiting for
And I know it canít be denied
Canít stop falliní into love
Whatís my heart been dreaminí upWhoís that fallingí into loveIs it you Iím thinkiní ofHey rock ín rollersWhatís a happeniní with youYouíve got the itchWell Iíve got it tooItís hard to be a winner every timeBut I know you take it, you can make it all rightItís time that you just canít hideBut I canít control myselfOh no no noI know what youíve been waitiní forícause love canít be denied yeah ooChorus
Canít stop falliní into love
Whatís my heart been dreaminí up
Whoís that fallingí into loveIs it you Iím thinkiní ofThereís always somethiní for everyoneAnd I know what you mean in my eyesI just canít control myselfAnd I fall for it every time oh yeahChorus
Canít stop falliní into love
Whatís my heart been dreaminí up
Whoís that fallingí into love
Is it you Iím thinkiní ofChorus
Canít stop falliní into loveWhatís my heart been dreaminí upWhoís that fallingí into loveIs it you Iím thinkiní ofCant stop falliní into love ooWhatís my heart been dreaminí upNo matter what I think or do or say heyI keep falliní into love...
[ Post Comment ]


Comment #233 posted by FoM on February 26, 2006 at 10:54:58 PT
Foxy Lady I Think I Love You! LOL!
Oh Dankhank that was funny. It made me laugh. 
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Comment #232 posted by Dankhank on February 26, 2006 at 10:49:58 PT
George raped Phil Maher, I think
Think Phil invented "New Rules" ...No mind ... george is always a funny guy ... My fave ...New Rule: Stop saying that teenage boys who have sex with their hot, blonde teachers are permanently damaged. I have a better description for these kids: lucky bastards.I remember my 10th grade English teacher ...Mrs Fuchs, I lie not ... what a foxy lady ....
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Comment #231 posted by global_warming on February 26, 2006 at 10:04:00 PT
on a lighter note
George Carlin's New
Rules For 20062-26-6 
 New Rule: Stop giving me that pop-up ad for classmates.com! There's a reason you don't talk to people for 25 years. Because you don't particularly likethem! Besides, I already know what the captain of the football team is doing these days: mowing my lawn.
 New Rule: Don't eat anything that's served to you out a window unless you're a seagull. People are acting all shocked that a human finger was found in a bowl of Wendy's chili. Hey, it cost less than a dollar. What did you expect it to contain? Trout?
 New Rule: Stop saying that teenage boys who have sex with their hot, blonde teachers are permanently damaged. I have a better description for these kids: lucky bastards.
 New Rule: If you need to shave and you still collect baseball cards, you're a dope. If you're a kid, the cards are keepsakes of your idols. If you're a grown man , they're pictures of men.
 New Rule: Ladies, leave your eyebrows alone. Here's how much men care about your eyebrows: do you have two of them? Okay, we're done.
 New Rule: There's no such thing as flavored water. There's a whole aisle of this crap at the supermarket, water, but without that watery taste. Sorry, but flavored water is called a soft drink. You want flavored water? Pour some scotch over ice and let it melt. That's your flavored water.
 New Rule: Stop f***ing with old people. Target is introducing a redesigned pill bottle that's square, with a bigger label. And the top is now the bottom. And by the time grandpa figures out how to open it, his ass will be in the morgue. Congratulations, Target, you just solved the SocialSecurity crisis.
 New Rule: The more complicated the Starbucks order, the bigger the ass hole. If you walk into a Starbucks and order a "decaf grande half-soy, half-low fat, iced vanilla, double-shot, gingerbread cappuccino, extra dry, light ice, with one Sweet-n'-Low and one NutraSweet," ooh, you're a hugeass hole.
 New Rule: I'm not the cashier! By the time I look up from sliding my card, entering my PIN number, pressing "Enter," verifying the amount, deciding,no, I don't want cash back, and pressing "Enter" again, the kid who is supposed to be ringing me up is standing there eating myAlmond Joy.
 New Rule: Just because your tattoo has Chinese characters in it doesn't make you spiritual. It's right above the crack of your ass. And it translates to "beef with broccoli." The last time you did anything spiritual, you were praying to God you weren't pregnant. You're not spiritual. You're just high.
 New Rule: Competitive eating isn't a sport. It's one of the seven deadly sins. ESPN recently televised the US Open of Competitive Eating, because watching those athletes at the poker table was just too damned exciting. What's next, competitive farting? Oh wait. They're already doing that. It's called "The Howard Stern Show."
 New Rule: I don't need a bigger mega M&M. If I'm extra hungry for M&Ms, I'll go nuts and eat two.
 
New Rule: If you're going to insist on making movies based on crappy, old television shows, then you have to give everyone in the Cineplex a remote so we can see what's playing on the other screens. Let's remember the reason something was a television show in the first place is that the idea wasn't good enough to be a movie.
 New Rule: No more gift registries. You know, it used to be just for weddings. Now it's for babies and new homes and graduations from rehab. Picking out the stuff you want and having other people buy it for you isn't gift giving, it's the white people version of looting. 
New Rules For 2006
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Comment #230 posted by global_warming on February 26, 2006 at 06:33:38 PT
security
you can try out these tests to check your system for vulnerability..
ShieldsUP!!
[ Post Comment ]


Comment #229 posted by jose melendez on February 26, 2006 at 05:58:21 PT
words of warning
It's been my experience that messenger and chat software includes well known and documented vulnerabilities and leads to computer instability. Do a search on http://google.com/ie for "disable messenger"see also http://65.39.182.20http://65.39.182.20/content/ms-hidden-files.shtml"private status messages can be read and online Yahoo! Chat activity can be monitored stealthily . . . (w)ith this Yahoo! server 'flaw' you can monitor the online activity of the people you've added without permission. You can determine whether or not they're "Available" and read their custom status messages that could contain private information such as private links and text (phone numbers, away messages etc)."http://www.derkeiler.com/Mailing-Lists/securityfocus/bugtraq/2005-05/0180.htmlhere are some alternatives, please someone smarter than me incorporate it into a tv studio for http://leap.cc , it's what they need, IMHO, along with a rapid response amicus brief team. http://www.timelyweb.com/downloads/2777/ - - -True or False? Lying gets prohibitionists high:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intellectual_dishonesty "subjects got a blast of activation in circuits involved in reward -- similar to what addicts receive when they get their fix . . ."http://www.operationdoubles.com/zoo-blog/2006/01/intellectual-dishonesty.html
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Comment #228 posted by global_warming on February 26, 2006 at 03:09:43 PT
i'll try to stop using
those words..peace
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Comment #227 posted by Dankhank on February 25, 2006 at 23:08:24 PT
PX wanderings
I was drafted for a little jungle dustup I didn't make it to, didn't miss it, but found out I could be a damn good soldier and ending up a crusty retired Chief Warrant Officer 3. i go to the PX anytime I like, I put 22 years and 23 days in this man's Army.missed the Bom Shakar comment, last night you say?need to sleep may search tomorrow ...Peace Out ...
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Comment #226 posted by whig on February 25, 2006 at 22:58:01 PT
Dankhank
I watched it Friday night. If you read the stuff I was posting, approximately around the time I said Bom Shankar, I think you'll know what I was up to. :)What are you doing in the military px?Why do we fight people?What's so funny about peace, love and understanding?
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Comment #225 posted by Dankhank on February 25, 2006 at 22:56:28 PT
can't see/talk to each other
I just installed the third webcam that I have purchased over the years, but the first one I have actually used.Got video to and from my Mom in GA. We're still ironing out the audio whild IMing. I know my Mom wants to get the audio running because she never learned to type.We're using Yahoo Messenger and I think I finally figured out the problem. Next time we hook up we should be good to go.Point is, the software I got with it, I believe, will allow video conferencing.the posibilites ...
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Comment #224 posted by Dankhank on February 25, 2006 at 22:50:28 PT
Whig
did you get the movie:What the Bleep do we know?I got it, watched it again, I had seen it on a pay channel a couple of months ago.It was still as amazing as the first time i saw it ...How'd you like it ... if you got it ...I saw it for sale in the local Military PX the other week, but was summoned before I could get one. Look for it in rental store, folks if you can't/won't DL it.It's worth a look.
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Comment #223 posted by Dankhank on February 25, 2006 at 22:41:59 PT
Weight
There's no doubt that we all should watch our diets and especially, exercise more.I can understand a vicious circle developing in the more corpulent young children as they are mocked by all and find that the only pleasure they get is from food. Can we stop that by not having corpulent kids at any age?Recently low-fat diets were shown not to lessen any heart problems for women.Recent data suggests that 21% of Americans are genetically disposed to get Diabetes 2.As a nation we ate trans-fats for decades. How much weight gain/heart disease from that? Now new labelling shows partially-hydrogenated palm kernal oil in ingredients and 0% trans-fat up top, on the label.I don't know about anywhere else, but in our high-schools the top lunch has been pizza, french-fries and a cola for years.Recent research suggests that thinner is better for most of life, but not so for elderly, should have some meat on them old bones. How do you break a lifetime of good eating habits? Hey Gramps, try this cannabis shake?i know a woman that got "stapled" a few years ago. She hasn't since, and never will again, eat a steak ...It's all a crapshoot, and we all get the chance, most of us, to choose how we want to live and many make weak choices.Best we try not to give offence as best we know how. That's all I'm about, really.
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Comment #222 posted by whig on February 25, 2006 at 22:21:38 PT
#220
Misunderstandings will happen. Sometimes we leap to judgment when we should try to put ourselves in the other person's shoes and figure out what is causing them pain.I was a very short-tempered person before my hip was replaced. I could snap at someone at any irritation, because I was already so aggravated to begin with that it was just one more thing I couldn't be bothered to put up with.Perhaps our friend global_warming is hurting.I wish he would tell us what and whether we can help.By the way, I'm a former smoker. I don't begrudge others their cigarettes. We do what we do, and we figure out what we're supposed to, if and when we are supposed to.For cigarettes, no less than food, or any addiction. People use crutches because they hurt.
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Comment #221 posted by FoM on February 25, 2006 at 22:09:27 PT
Golly Are We Going To Kiss and Make Up Now?
I know all the regular posters here on CNews are good people. We are real live breathing people on the otherside of our keyboards. It is easy to get misunderstood because we can't talk to the person face to face. When I was growing up I read Emily Post's book on proper etiquette. LOL! It was a great book for me.
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Comment #220 posted by Dankhank on February 25, 2006 at 21:59:47 PT
BG, I agree, see earlier post ...
Apologies for hooking you into this ... it was always about what GW says.Conventional Wisdom,CW, says that the reformed smoker, nicotine, was always the strident prohibitionist of the same behavior in others.CW is likely appended with an entry regarding formerly weight-challenged individuals and THEIR penchant for being "reformers," too.No Matter, or problem here, though I was taken aback by your use of freely given personal information, by me, as to my mild corpulence, wondering what bearing that fact had on the discussion of whether a comment was bigoted or not, although bigotry really entered into the discussion late, it really,initially, was more about simple good manners.Agree that the definition means that we are ALL bigots on some topics. It's the ones that cause unneeded hurt to others that must be avoided.I must say that you got "Cheneyed" in this discussion ...My scattershot broadside gotcha, sorry ...Peace, and you've not caused me pain, bro ...  
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Comment #219 posted by BGreen on February 25, 2006 at 21:52:30 PT
Thanks, FoM, for sharing your experiences
My dad got one of those cards you mentioned, except this one had flames on the front and inside it said "Are you going to Hell!" I'd never seen my Grandma so angry. This sweet little old lady was so livid about what these "church" people had sent her dying son.My problem is that I try and post so quickly here at CNews that I say stupid things and put my foot in my mouth.I really do care and consider myself pretty tolerant and accepting, regardless of the stoopid werds eye right sumthymes.The Reverend Bud Green
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Comment #218 posted by FoM on February 25, 2006 at 21:37:40 PT
Oh Boy
I will try to say something and have been pacing around trying to figure out if I should say anything. I fight weight gain everyday. I weigh 110 now and it really bothers me. When I was younger I went up to almost 150 pounds and I was miserable. When I made up my mind to lose weight years ago I did but it was very hard. I have a niece that I love dearly who just had by pass surgery. I told her before the surgery that I love her and understand why she wanted to have the surgery. She is a great nurse at a hospital and she felt her life at 51 was going to be seriously compromised if she didn't have this extreme surgery. I love her no matter what and if we all met each other we would all love one another for our virtues and we wouldn't even notice our shortcomings.
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Comment #217 posted by BGreen on February 25, 2006 at 21:27:35 PT
It's gone too far, Dankhank
You put words into my mouth and meanings to my words that I never intended.The "cringe" that I speak about is an internal rush of sympathy, not for the act of over-eating or whatever, but for the person themselves.I WAS that fat person. I KNOW their pain. I was beat up because I was fat. I was ridiculed because I was fat.I don't do any of these things because it happened to me.Whether you want to believe it or not, I was trying to give you a little encouragement to improve your health.I don't condone the use of derogatory terms, as your original post was about.Yes, I know I should've kept my mouth closed.As far as bigotry goes, we're all guilty as charged by the definition you've provided.Please forgive me for any pain my words have caused you.The Reverend Bud Green
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Comment #216 posted by whig on February 25, 2006 at 21:15:04 PT
Matt 11:19
The son of man came eating and drinking, and they say, Behold a man gluttonous, and a winebibber, a friend of publicans and sinners. But wisdom is justified of her children.Who will condemn the glutton?
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Comment #215 posted by whig on February 25, 2006 at 21:10:15 PT
Whistling past a gravestone...
A dark shadow falls on the congregation.We have dissention.We have discord.We have disunity.Whose spirit is this?
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Comment #214 posted by Dankhank on February 25, 2006 at 20:51:45 PT
BG and GW
BG said ...
I strongly object to any comparison of what I said to anti-gay or any other bigotry..........Bigotry is bigotry even if it involves Brussel Sprouts.http://m-w.com/dictionary/bigotbigotOne entry found for bigot.Main Entry: big∑otPronunciation: 'bi-g&tFunction: nounEtymology: Middle French, hypocrite, bigot
: a person obstinately or intolerantly devoted to his or her own opinions and prejudices
- big∑ot∑ed /-g&-t&d/ adjective
- big∑ot∑ed∑ly adverbpretty clear ...I confess that I rarely peruse the shopping carts of fellow shoppers.GWI shake my head in a much bemused manner. Any permutation of your invective will only serve to validate your penchant for using said invective to the detriment of your observed manner of communication.
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Comment #213 posted by BGreen on February 25, 2006 at 20:20:26 PT
I've heard your argument before, Dankhank
I strongly object to any comparison of what I said to anti-gay or any other bigotry.I won't give sympathy to those who CHOOSE to eat themselves into an early grave.Statistics aren't needed. Just look around. Look at what the fat people have in their shopping carts, while scootering around the stores because they are so fat they can't even walk anymore, then wobbling out to their car in the handicapped parking.This is sad, this isn't right, and it is putting their lives at risk.For that, I cringe. It's sympathy, not bigotryThe Reverend Bud Green
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Comment #212 posted by Dankhank on February 25, 2006 at 20:05:28 PT
BGreen
In response to my original post I expected to see GW, but got GW and you.I had addressed my comment to GW if you look.The comment you refer to was also about GW's use of 'fat asses. Your gratuituos comments have distracted me from the information I was seeking ...Cringe all you want, but don't use a physical ailment, whether it MAY be self-inflicted or not as an insult.I challenge your assertion that anyone so morbidly obese got there from simple gluttony. Surely it must be a combination of things. Care to share any documentation for your assertion, or is it, like MY opinion, just a different one?GW...'fat asses refers to the DEA? Maybe Barfwell, but surely no McCafferty et al.Why the ad homen you choose? The nastiest thing you can call the DEA is 'fat asses?How 'bout Mindless Buffoons? apologies to any buffoons if they're out there.DEA Goons ... any goons out there?Prohibitionists ... no apologies to any other prohibitionists Disobedient Christians was a pretty good one ... no apology needed to Christians with that one ...Point is, ANY bigotry must be challenged. I call 'em as I see 'em.I'll stop asking why we have to hear 'bout 'fat asses when we stop hearin' 'bout 'fat asses or I'll give up in the face of intransigence but will know it to be.I've said more than I feel I should have needed to. I forgive all. GW, can you find some way to create a symbol of the evil ones that doesn't compare them to someone who is physically challenged, however distasteful you must feel them to be?
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Comment #211 posted by whig on February 25, 2006 at 18:48:27 PT
#210
Nice disclaimer, Jose!
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Comment #210 posted by jose melendez on February 25, 2006 at 16:33:33 PT
yes, Virginia, Cannabis was around for Jesus 
re #208?!Previous comments by yours truly and others often contain forward-looking statements that involve risks and uncertainties, including statements regarding the timing of the commercial launch of, and the efficacy, safety and potential benefits of, but not limited to, cannabinoids, flavonoids, essential fatty acids proteins and fiber.Disclaimer warning: Above described compounded prescriptions, recommended or suggested herbs and food supplements are capriciously and arbitrarily refused for evaluation by the FDA for safety or efficacy. Regularly and with impuniity, human clinical studies to determine safety or efficacy are not approved by the FDA for use with other cannabinoids, medications or intoxicants in the treatment of pain or any disease. In a clear indication that te FDA, DEA and ONDCP are demonstrably corrupt, far more harmful synthetics (extremely profitable yet otherwise worthless alternatives) are permitted by law, easily causing some hundreds of thousands of deaths . . . Million Marijuana Lawsuits 
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Comment #209 posted by global_warming on February 25, 2006 at 16:10:05 PT
maybe
jesus rode in on some fat-ass, his crucifixion his 'nails on that wooden crossare what 'we are made of,here in this place, this time,
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Comment #208 posted by global_warming on February 25, 2006 at 15:45:49 PT
God Love You Jose
do you mean to say, that Cannabis can help my heart condition?
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Comment #207 posted by jose melendez on February 25, 2006 at 15:38:55 PT
waiting . . .
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=pubmed&dopt=Abstract&list_uids=16487916&query_hl=2&itool=pubmed_docsumhttp://tinyurl.com/jo678The endocannabinoid system modulates synaptic ineurotransmission centrally and peripherally and is involved in the brain pathways concerned with addiction, central regulation of body weight and adipose tissue function. The system is overactivated in animal models of obesity and nicotine use. This review discusses the role of . . . a cannabinoid receptor 1 blocker, which has undergone Phase III clinical testing, in the treatment of obesity and tobacco dependence.DATA SYNTHESIS: Results of Phase III clinical trials have shown that rimonabant has promising efficacy in the treatment of obesity, dyslipidaemia and diabetes associated with obesity, in preventing weight gain following smoking cessation, and possibly in smoking cessation. No critical problems with the tolerance and safety of the compound have appeared in studies to date. CONCLUSION: . . . ( cannabinoid receptor blocker) may prove to be a useful aid in the treatment of the most widespread cardiometabolic risk factors.Tonstad S.Department of Preventive Cardiology, Ulleval University Hospital, N-0407 Oslo, Norway. - - -Means:David W. Murray, a special assistant to national drug czar John Walters, had little or no effect on the Senate Judiciary Committee, which gave the measure a do-pass with bipartisan support. And some senators said Murrayís presentation was heavy-handed . Murray told the committee that marijuana is an addictive substance with very serious health consequences , has no proven medical value http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/keyword?k=govwatchMotive: Murray adds that the U.S. government is still evaluating whether the chemical compounds in marijuana might be broken down for their possible medical value. http://voanews.com/english/archive/2004-11/Julie-Carpenter-SCOTUS-Medicinal-Marijuana-2004-11-11-voa44.cfm?CFID=31191528&CFTOKEN=1974525FH Hispania, Fleishman-Hillard US Hispanic marketing and outreach arm, was launched in 2002 to offer communications services to companies interested in addressing the Hispanic market. With more than 25 professionals fluent in Spanish and experienced in Hispanic marketing in the United States, FH Hispania services through its national network of counselors a bevy of clients including SBC, H&R Block, P&G, Hormel, Big Lots, ONDCP, California Grown, and Pfizer. 79http://rushprnews.iuplog.com/default.asp?item=887FHOpportunity:Category 	Law Enf/Secur
Job Title 	(HIDTA) Director Ė Atlanta, Georgia
Job Description 	Atlanta Metropolitan High Intensity Drug Trafficking Area
(HIDTA)
Director Ė Atlanta, Georgia The Atlanta Metropolitan High Intensity Drug Trafficking Area (HIDTA) is seeking applications for the following position: Director.The Atlanta HIDTA is a multi-agency drug task force operating under the direction of the Office of National Drug Control Policy (ONDCP). Member agencies include federal, state, and local law enforcement and prosecution agencies from metro Atlanta. For the position: Salary (within ranges indicated) and benefits negotiable; travel required; background security clearance required; no relocation allowance available for applicants outside of Atlanta, Georgia.Under the direction of the Executive Board, the Director will be responsible for the operational support and administrative activities of the HIDTA. Sworn law enforcement officers manage the actual law enforcement operations conducted by the HIDTA task force personnel. Minimum requirements: four-year degree from an accredited college or university, significant experience in law enforcement (supervisory or command staff experience preferred) demonstrable familiarity with the drug law enforcement needs of the state and region and familiarity with budgets; identifiable interpersonal and negotiation skills; exceptional communication skills. Experience with a HIDTA or multi-jurisdictional drug task force preferred.Salary range: $101,478 - $ 119,367.Position funded through December 2006. Future funding as one-year (calendar), renewable, position anticipated, with approval by ONDCP. Complete applications must include: 1) Cover letter including how applicantís qualifications satisfy requirements of the position sought (applicants should clearly identify position being sought); and 2) resume including name, address, and telephone number of three (3) references. Mail or Fax (404-893-7110), application materials to: HIDTA Director Search Committee, c/o DEA, Attn. Angelika Moore, 75 Spring Street SW, Suite 800, Atlanta, GA 30303.Complete applications must be received by March 1, 2006. Those not received by, or which are incomplete on, this deadline will not be considered. For additional information contact 404-893-7224. 
Contact Name 	Atlanta Metropolitan High Intensity Drug Trafficking Areahttp://www.noblenational.org/jobbank.cfmANTITRUST: ANTITRUSTCan a Business Collude with Itself?Texaco v. Dagher
Docket No. 04-805andShell Oil v. Dagher
Docket No. 04-814From: The Ninth CircuitCase at a GlanceSection One of the Sherman Antitrust Act makes illegal certain agreements among two or more businesses to restrain trade. At issue is the antitrust implication of the formation by two companies of a joint venture that sets the price for products produced by the two companies. If the joint venture is understood as an agreement among two entities, Section One of the Sherman Act would apply. If the joint venture is an independent business entity, then Section One cannot apply.  * Previewed by Shubha Ghosh, a professor of law at Southern Methodist University, Dedman School of Law, and The University at Buffalo, SUNY, School of Law.Supreme Court Decision: Pendingsee also: http://docket.medill.northwestern.edu/archives/002755.phphttp://www.voluntarytrade.org/newsite/modules/zmagazine/article.php?page=1&articleid=18http://www.scotusblog.com/movabletype/archives/2006/01/tomorrows_argum_27.html
Unlawful Restraint
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Comment #206 posted by global_warming on February 25, 2006 at 15:05:36 PT
you can be over weight
you can join this Cannabis Freedom Movement'all are 'welcome,'we are standing at the 'foot of the 'crosswaiting for 'you
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Comment #205 posted by BGreen on February 25, 2006 at 14:35:59 PT
You've brought up your weight before, Dankhank
I read and remember things here at CNews.com.If I cringe at a 500 pound + person, how dare you judge me.I'll challenge you to show me anybody who weighs that much because of anything other than gluttony.You're so caught up on seeing criticism in anything "weight" related that you completely ignore 99% of what I said.Chill out.The Reverend Bud Green
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Comment #204 posted by global_warming on February 25, 2006 at 14:25:47 PT
lets start with
those 'damned dea people,
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Comment #203 posted by Dankhank on February 25, 2006 at 14:20:33 PT
confusion
I was not confused by what I read, thanks ...Describe the class of people denoted by "'fat asses"
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Comment #202 posted by global_warming on February 25, 2006 at 14:15:33 PT

maybe
this is why this electronic forumis piercing this 'nightlike Cindy, who lost her 'son,somehow, in this belly of the 'beast,the devil has chewed one too many souls,maybe,it is that 'fire,which can consume all mortal agreementsthat burns within its own bellylike a mother ready to give birthto a new childa new 'day
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Comment #201 posted by FoM on February 25, 2006 at 14:06:11 PT

Just Another Comment
Yes it's true. I was at Cedars Sinai Hospital in Beverly Hills on the Aids floor when the card was delivered. I didn't know what to say I felt so bad.
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Comment #200 posted by global_warming on February 25, 2006 at 14:02:31 PT

yes, it is those apostrophes
that can mean so much..
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Comment #199 posted by whig on February 25, 2006 at 13:59:55 PT

global_warming
I was being sarcastic when I said it was a loving, Christian sentiment. Sorry, I do that a lot. It's hard to convey inflection online.
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Comment #198 posted by global_warming on February 25, 2006 at 13:57:57 PT

fomme..you are bringing tears
to me eyes, did this really happen to you?i did not see any Christian sentiment in that last post, i only saw the cruel and ignorant workings of cruel and ignorant people who live in a frightful darkness..

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Comment #197 posted by whig on February 25, 2006 at 13:51:26 PT

FoM
What a loving, Christian sentiment.The thing is, even the meaning of that statement was turned around. Because in our mortal frame of existence, we all die. Including the person who sent that card. But in the spiritual sense, we die a little death for each cruelty we inflict. And the cruelty that person inflicted will come back in the most ironic fashion possible.
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Comment #196 posted by FoM on February 25, 2006 at 13:37:28 PT

Dankhank
Prejudice is a bad thing. Sometimes people want to feel better then another person and it's easy to pick on something that they aren't to justify who they are. It's cruel. I felt prejudice from my church because of my son's lifestyle. One couple from the church even sent him while he was in very serious condition at the hospital a christian card that when you opened it the first page said the wages of sin is death. The nurse too that card and circulated it around the floor to staff and patients and ranted on about christian prejudice. What good did that card do anyone even if they meant well? No good.
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Comment #195 posted by global_warming on February 25, 2006 at 13:33:26 PT

An apostrophe usually denotes dropped letters;
not in the way i am using that apostrophe, that apostrophe denotes a class or subject, such as 'we -we the people..hope this helps to clear up the confusion..
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Comment #194 posted by Dankhank on February 25, 2006 at 13:27:17 PT

Cringing ...
is what I do when I perceive a "class" of people mocked for any reason.No one has a clue if the "fat" person is fat from overeating, bad eating, genetics that predispose one to girth, or just mismanaged diet or any reasons you are not aware of.What point do you make when you associate 'fat with ass? Is the apostrophe meant to change the meaning?An apostrophe usually denotes dropped letters; is 'fat something else?It's interesting that my weight was brought up as if that somehow mitigates my comment.Haven't we learned in this forum that people can be for a controversial act even when they do not perform that controversial act?Can I oppose a thing whether I am that thing or not?I would be this way if the target group was "feebs", retards, homos ... I have a long list ...
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Comment #193 posted by global_warming on February 25, 2006 at 13:11:24 PT

i love Ron Paul
even though he is from Texas and a Republican, may the angels who minister to God illuminate this man and may God Bless Ron Paul...
HON. RON PAUL OF TEXAS
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Comment #192 posted by global_warming on February 25, 2006 at 12:15:53 PT

not really
i use the words fat-ass more as a tool to stimulate a point, usually in my writing. actually i am a bit overweight myself. it is amazing to me that there are quite a few people who become offended by the linking of those two words fat and ass.allow me to apologize to you if i have in any way upset you..gw
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Comment #191 posted by BGreen on February 25, 2006 at 12:04:38 PT

Extra weight is unhealthy
I don't have a "fat people hatred," but I cringe when I see how morbidly obese and really gross that some people are, indeed have done to themselves.The only reason I ever talk about this is because it's FAR MORE UNHEALTHY than using cannabis, and if they want to throw cannabis users in jail for unhealthy behavior then they'll have to throw the obese in jail first.Of course, nobody would ever consider doing this, no matter how fat and unhealthy our country gets.I grew up as a fat kid and I've NEVER had the luxury of eating whatever I wanted, but I now maintain a weight within normal range (body mass index of 23 or 24,) and I don't have any of the health problems of my obese sibling.Don't be offended, Dankhank, because we love you no matter how big or small you are.However, if you aren't eating right and exercising enough then you're risking your health.We can't afford to lose any members of our family.The Reverend Bud Green
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Comment #190 posted by Dankhank on February 25, 2006 at 09:18:11 PT

What is it with ...
your constant comments re "fat people?"GW wrote:Might some curvy 'fat ass in tight jeans, arouse, those perceptions?So what is it?did a fat person make you mad?Or are you just a weight bigot?
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Comment #189 posted by global_warming on February 24, 2006 at 19:57:12 PT

it will carry
the messageof fruitless crucifixions,there is no 'need for religions,'enlightened 'humans,carefully watch those bloodied footsteps,those martyred steps that are forever lighted,carefully taking that'next step.
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Comment #188 posted by global_warming on February 24, 2006 at 19:14:11 PT

sure 'wish
that this moment,carry's a little furter,
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Comment #187 posted by global_warming on February 24, 2006 at 19:03:08 PT

respect
for what is good in this world,big or small,is it not 'smallpart of 'life,that 'holds on'F'reedom,To negoite 'your soul,Have you been 'born free?
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Comment #186 posted by global_warming on February 24, 2006 at 18:50:56 PT

can ;we go another step?
on this back of our flesh.born to 'witness,reality?
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Comment #185 posted by global_warming on February 24, 2006 at 18:04:58 PT

get 'ye behind me satan,
your comfort at that station,is a 'grace in the face of the Lord,imagine that,'me .. working for 'you
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Comment #184 posted by whig on February 24, 2006 at 17:50:09 PT

sinners
We have all sinned, and none of us is perfect, but we try to be better. That's what's different about us and a lot of people. We try to be better. We keep messing up, but we do it less often, we make different mistakes. We rebel, and we don't do what we think we should do, and sometimes we're just acting out of our anger and turning it in a way that is less destructive than some other. And maybe we get through that completely. I'm still only a baby myself.
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Comment #183 posted by global_warming on February 24, 2006 at 17:41:46 PT

i could be 'happier
'this group only accepts 'sinners,
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Comment #182 posted by whig on February 24, 2006 at 17:32:08 PT

Works for me...
If you have Javascript enabled... it counts down 15 seconds, then you have to type a number it gives you (this is to prevent spiders from harvesting content that is meant to be shared between two people and not the whole world). Then it gives you a link to download. So you can listen to music when you ask me and if I have something that looks like it might be interesting, I send it along.I want all of us to be happy, but I know things are difficult sometimes, and they are for me too. But I'm going to be moving soon and making all sorts of new friends and maybe feel like I'm safe again. I think that's what we're all looking for. Safety. We want to be able to live and be able to pursue our own happiness, and we do that with each other, and with our wives or husbands, and we should not have to hide from the world anymore.When cannabis is legal, we will have won the whole world. Because we will smoke with out brothers and our sisters and we will know them and they will know us and we will be one people. And it will be hard for the paranoids to adjust, it was hard for me, and it gave me my own slice of hell for awhile. And we all go through this, I think, but for some it is shorter and for some it is harder.Do you understand that I am speaking to you know as who we are. I love you. I want you to be happy. But you have to decide that you want to be happy. You have to pursue your happiness. Pursuit of Happiness. This is what I have always been preaching and teaching and sometimes I forget to do it myself. I think you forget this sometimes and you are sad because you think God wants you to be sad.
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Comment #181 posted by global_warming on February 24, 2006 at 17:30:32 PT

that sign says
thank you Lord,still hanging in there,
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Comment #180 posted by global_warming on February 24, 2006 at 17:21:11 PT

drew a blank
from that last ..link,..'just ..waiting,

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Comment #179 posted by whig on February 24, 2006 at 17:10:37 PT

music for gw
http://www.uploadport.com/request/?fid=ZD328
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Comment #178 posted by global_warming on February 24, 2006 at 17:08:32 PT

in that
'mean meantime,does this world, filled with 'full human souls,come closer to 'understandingsomeplace where 'we can enjoy,this picnic, this 'party,
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Comment #177 posted by global_warming on February 24, 2006 at 16:30:59 PT

wish i could hear some 'good music
is it not 'music,that last child of God,that has survived this secular madness?
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Comment #176 posted by global_warming on February 24, 2006 at 16:01:43 PT

i was surprised
by your use of John, while i was thinking that you were Buddhist,..i know some Asian people, where i work, i frequently ask them questions, about their history and culture, often it is sad to me, that some of these people, have little understanding of their own history and culture.The Asian's, called Indians, mostly dismiss, the history of the 'caste system, some religious system, that has been in control of their lives, for centuries, there is such a deep sadness in my heart for these people, for every aspect of their existence has been carefully laid out, even their names, reflect their place in this world, their names, mark their place, imagine having a name like joe shitdigger, or a name like jane youwillnevergettoheaven, imagine that you have been hammered from your 'first breath, that this is your place, this is what you must do to survive, to your grave.This hell is very similar to what Judaism is like, and if 'you are a 'women, you have a greater burden, forget being black, being black pushes you even deeper down into the earth, that is why that carpenter who was nailed to some tree or cross for speaking his thoughts, when he said that we are 'all standing at the 'table, and said 'we can come before God as 'witness, that carpenter marked his life and last breath, this was that 'wake up call, for 'all mankind, for it has been 'written, that man does not live by bread alone, only from what comes out of the mouth of God.
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Comment #175 posted by global_warming on February 24, 2006 at 15:01:31 PT

thanks
..lombar, somehow i feel a little better knowing, there are good people like you out there,..
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Comment #174 posted by lombar on February 23, 2006 at 21:30:51 PT

The hell of the world
.. only bothers those with a good heart.1 John 2:15 (New International Version)
New International Version (NIV)15: Do not love the world or anything in the world. If anyone loves the world, the love of the Father is not in him.
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Comment #173 posted by FoM on February 23, 2006 at 17:53:03 PT

I Love That Song
And the sign said long haired freaky people need not apply So I tucked my hair up under my hat and I went in to ask him why He said you look like a fine upstanding young man, I think you'll do So I took off my hat I said imagine that, huh, me working for you woah! http://www.fivemanelectricalband.ca/signslyrics.html
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Comment #172 posted by whig on February 23, 2006 at 17:08:56 PT

#170
I'm alive and doin' fine.
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Comment #171 posted by global_warming on February 23, 2006 at 16:37:53 PT

some lyrics
Written by Johnny Starr
(As recorded by Patsy Cline 1/8/59)Well, I'm chasin' the blues
Right out of my mind
I'm leavin' my cares
And worries behind
Cause I'm on my way
I'm leavin' town todayMy lonesome old heart
Is broken into
I've been walkin' the floor
Every night over you
But our love is all gone
I'm movin' on
I'm a-leavin' town todayI got no love, no cares
Just heartaches
I'm leavin' them all behind
Like the sun and the moon
And the stars above
We're gonna be one of a kindWell, I'm movin' along
I gotta be free
I'll find a new love
Wherever I'll be
But my old love is gone
I'm movin' on
I'm a-leavin' town todayI got no love, no cares
No heartaches
I'm leavin' them all behind
Like the sun, and the moon
And the stars above
We're gonna be one of a kindWell I'm movin' along
I gotta be free
I'll find a new love
Wherever I'll be
But my old love is gone
I'm movin' on
I'm a-leavin' town today
I'm leavin' this town today© Acuff-Rose Music, Inc. (BMI)

http://www.sing365.com/music/lyric.nsf/I'm-Moving-Along-lyrics-Patsy-Cline/C8B64
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Comment #170 posted by global_warming on February 23, 2006 at 16:02:49 PT

the 'sign says
Thank you Lord,
For thinking about 'me...
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Comment #169 posted by global_warming on February 23, 2006 at 15:57:04 PT

do you have that connection?
is it sure?
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Comment #168 posted by global_warming on February 23, 2006 at 15:50:51 PT

Are You Waiting
For 'your 'payoff?Some 'sweet connection?
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Comment #167 posted by global_warming on February 23, 2006 at 15:20:14 PT

in the lombar region
perhaps i should choose my anatomical locations more carefully, but i have to admit, one of my worst distractions is this hellish world that 'we live in.There are times when i do not want to meditate, but would rather point out the folly and failure of our current society.There is nothing more disturbing than to think about this war on d/people, imagine, all this technology is merely some media hype for another way of saying there is no God, no Soul.I watched some big time general named klimmats or something like that last night on cspan. This guy seemed to be rather bright, yet he was so extremely careful in his wording. He was in a position to have much information about this, yup, another war on people, this war in iraq, he mentioned that these United States, have 200,000, that is two hundred thousand soldiers placed in the middle east, to protect three secular states.While he was talking in curves about ideologies, carefully avoiding the core of his understanding, it soon became apparent, that he was a spokesman for these United States, and he was carrying on his orders.The thing that bothers me is, that this big shot general, was clearly supporting our American ideals, those same ideals that right here in River City, if you have some trace of Cannabis, you shall be put in a cage, that is unless, you have 'money, to pay off the cop, to pay off the lawyer, to pay off the 'judge. 

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Comment #166 posted by global_warming on February 23, 2006 at 04:16:07 PT

ot? Maybe Not
US court backs hallucinogenic tea..The unanimous decision is court's first religious freedom case since Chief Justice John Roberts was appointed.The hoasca tea is considered sacred to members of the group, O Centro Espirita Beneficente Uniao do Vegetal. 
US court backs hallucinogenic tea
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Comment #165 posted by Hope on February 22, 2006 at 21:17:11 PT

I've been feeling very philosophical lately
Lombar...don't you dare be sorry! I've enjoyed reading your comments. 
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Comment #164 posted by Dankhank on February 22, 2006 at 19:44:37 PT

Whig
auch Danke ...I'm getting it now ...
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Comment #163 posted by MaRkAyNe on February 22, 2006 at 19:02:02 PT:

So About The Article..
"Today, cannabis serves two very distinct purposes: medicinal use and the pastime of just getting high."Yeah- only two distinct purposes if you forget that Cannabis was the main product of the United States before emancipation and that it is the most useful, sustainable fiber known to mankind. If legalized it would probably become our main source for bulk products such as paper, as well as material for bio-fuels. Sustainable energy AND not cutting down all our forests for exportation to Japan and other countries who are already seeing the problems we will have in 50 years."It is obvious that (marijuana) is harmful," Palfai said. "The word 'drug' entails that the consumption is going to cause your body harm in some way, shape or form."Since when does drug entail bodily harm? I'm pretty sure a drug is just any substance that instigates chemistry. i.e. Everything. You cannot claim that because the government (The authority under question) classifies it as a drug, it is obviously harmful."Marijuana users can AND WILL? Experience any of the following: paranoia, dry mouth, respiratory problems, heart problems, inability to concentrate, impaired memory and motivation loss."Uh yeah paranoia from the po-po and narcs. Dry mouth is a big one. Gonna have to get up and get some water. Why donít they add blood-shot eyes to list of serious problems? Respiratory is legitimate, but has nothing to do with Cannabis, it's the mode of delivery (smoking). Void argument since Cigarettes are legal too... As for concentration and memoryÖ Iím in college doing just dandy. If you find you can't study when you get high, DON'T GET HIGH BEFORE YOU STUDY.Peace out. 

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Comment #162 posted by whig on February 22, 2006 at 18:57:43 PT

Dankhank
Thanks for the suggestion. Looks interesting!http://www.mininova.org/tor/162084
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Comment #161 posted by FoM on February 22, 2006 at 18:57:31 PT

Lombar and Dankhank
Lombar, you are way deeper then I am. I appreciate your comments even though I can't think of a response.Dankhank, I won't ever get involved in any organized religion again. I burnt out on them and found my own way and I have peace now. If people believe something different then me I don't care. We really need to follow our own heart and be true to ourselves when it comes to our personal beliefs. I believe faith is really very private and special.
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Comment #160 posted by Dankhank on February 22, 2006 at 18:44:54 PT

And then there is ...
http://www.whatthebleep.com/AKA ... What the "bleep" do we know?to add interesting insight to that most conflicted creature ... us ...FoM, regarding my question of an earlier post, I asked for this reasoning ...I, too, eschew organized religion since it was made/perverted by man. Read what Jesus said, isn't that enough?Any who claim Christianity will/should acknowledge the Bible and what it says regarding the giving of all seed-bearing plants to man for food.I don't think the Cannabis Churches worship the plant, but do use the plant to commune with whom they worship.This is an act rooted in our human history going back to antiquity. Annointing oils aided some religions to truly commune.or what John lennon said:Whatever Gets You Through The Night, 'salrighthttp://www.lyrics007.com/John%20Lennon%20Lyrics/Whatever%20Gets%20You%20Through%20The%20Night%20Lyrics.html
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Comment #159 posted by lombar on February 22, 2006 at 18:15:52 PT

Perception vs conditioned belief.

The worst distraction from calm contemplation is the desire for the opposite sex. According to all the texts I read, the requirement for attaining jhana is seclusion from human civilisation and use the phrase "well secluded from sensual desires" quite often. Thinking deep thoughts is like a gentle stream, desires are like a raging torrent.I should explain that by 'feeling' in this context I mean either a postive, neutral, or negative feeling and not emotions/passions. Look for the "Four Foundations of Mindfulness". Mindfulness of the body, of the mind, of the feelings, and of the dhamma. Only the last one is really specific to Buddhism but dhamma could also be 'law' or nature of reality.I suppose those curves would arouse a feeling which would largely depend on how fat and how tight the jeans are. Jeans that are too tight are unsightly on any larger persons! Not too mention totally uncomfortable. :)The eye cognizes an object. Perception differentiates the object into a rectangle. Mental conditioning, learned knowledge gives me a name (computer monitor). Understanding is knowing its a flourescent light shining thru a liquid crystal display which has 1650X1080 individual little squares, each of which is controlled by three transistors. That's 5,346,000 transistors all working in concert to produce an image. That we can create such modern wonders yet we are governed by democracies dreamed up by people in the 1700s never ceases to amaze..This object, thru the gate of the senses gives rise to a positive feeling which causes to arise the attachment and passion for the object and its many uses. I love computers! :-)I've been feeling very philosophical lately...sorry if this is way out there...
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Comment #158 posted by global_warming on February 22, 2006 at 17:30:39 PT

except nothing less
than FREEDOM,It belongs in front,on that 'table of Eternity.This our Destiny,Forever and in the face of GOD.
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Comment #157 posted by global_warming on February 22, 2006 at 17:18:08 PT

try to remember
that last letter in freedoM, in an m;,m'uch like 'me, much like the m' in ore,m'oney, m'orals,m'usic, m'ysticism,this is the last letter,in that 'tired road,Freedo'm
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Comment #156 posted by global_warming on February 22, 2006 at 17:05:09 PT

it is about
Freedom,from the heart to the mind and to the 'soul,Forever,Freedom
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Comment #155 posted by global_warming on February 22, 2006 at 16:49:41 PT

re that last post
" Perception differentiates an object. Only by reflection..."Might some curvy 'fat ass in tight jeans, arouse, those perceptions?Sorry I mixed up my words,
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Comment #154 posted by lombar on February 22, 2006 at 16:36:15 PT

Gems are valuable because they are rare. 
Thats the beauty of the internet forum/bbs. Someone can say something today that I may mull over for a week or a minute, whether a light goes on or not!I only said that people could step back and see the whole gem, not understand it. There's plenty I don't understand! When you look at a diamond do you think "Carbon atoms in a tetrahedral array, hardest substance known to man, made by compressing carbon under high temperatures" or do you just look at the beauty of it and enjoy the feeling? See how the light refracts and relects off its surface? You can admire its beauty without know anything about its structure, composition. 
(anything you believe is beautiful) The eyes(or any of the 6 sense media eyes, ears, touch, smell, taste, mind) 'see' an object. Perception differentiates an object. Only by reflection and inquiry can one actually attain understanding of any cognized object. When senses 'sense' something, perception arises, and so does feeling. It is all happening constantly, large volumes of data bombard our brains at any given second. The brain filters the bulk of data otherwise we could not handle the real time influx of the data. Our attention essentially shifts from one sense to another, to feelings, to perceptions, constantly. When you recognise this in yourself, a lot of it becomes more bearable, a lot or personal suffering is created by lack of self understanding.This language is all metaphoric, can anyone 'explain' reality? I think not, we can only encourage others to look for themselves. I do not believe anyone who did not glimpse the whole rock would have enough fortitude and commitment to ending injustice to run this board (or any *sustained* positive political activism, community service). Unfortunately, our world will not change appreciably until the masses do 'see the gem as a gem' and see turds like the drug war as they are, turds that need to be just so much more sewage of history. Although it may be changing, many people still see turds as diamonds and vise versa.I had cares about the world all my life but until my own 'awakening' I did not have the courage to speak out against it. Now that I am getting old and seeing the past 30 years of decline(obfuscation, misappropriation, BS), I am getting PO'd. Thus I believe many people who post here are awakened to a greater degree than many, especially American posters given the harshness of the law. Looks like our government is following. The discourse moves forward, the government moves backward.We cannot eliminate violence by using violence and that is what any war is. My dream is a 'violence' free world but all the 'drug-free' world people prevent any hope of that, they've institutionalized an eternal unwinnable war.
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Comment #153 posted by global_warming on February 22, 2006 at 16:30:11 PT

sorry fomme
thank you fomme
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Comment #152 posted by global_warming on February 22, 2006 at 16:18:43 PT

for was it not written
that Truth and Justice,reached from the head of the 'law,and made right justice,this walk 'to Freedom,will 'see the end of this ignorant injustice,Freedom, can Triumph,Freedom, Time has brokerd agreements,That God may not understand,It is not about Cannabis,It is about Freedom,It is about this ever changing 'world,It is about 'how 'we come into 'tomorrow,It is 'Now, and 'Forever,..FREEDOM..
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Comment #151 posted by global_warming on February 22, 2006 at 16:01:54 PT

everybody dreams
there is a dream,a higher dream,where good people,can explore their relationship with Eternity,that Infinite Table,they may bring their fruitsto the 'table,without some corrupted lawyer or judgeor some man in blue,that table of Justice and Truth,
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Comment #150 posted by global_warming on February 22, 2006 at 15:47:58 PT

there is
that secular prison system,that feeds so many people,who live with their 'eyes closed,i wonder how they sleep,do they 'dream?
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Comment #149 posted by MikeEEEEE on February 22, 2006 at 15:40:50 PT

Follow the money
They'll never succeed at marijuana prohibition.However, there is a lot of money invested in the prison system, with more than 500,000 incarcerated for drug crimes.George Bush said the Dubai deal would go through, note the word deal.The United Corporation of Amerika, open for business.

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Comment #148 posted by global_warming on February 22, 2006 at 14:57:14 PT

as for the ports
When rich fist Bill and that Bastert guy stand up, I can smell a political fish, and throw in that that stinky bacala or herring called hillary, then I got to wonder, just sitting patiently, for old souder to check in then I can be sure what is going on.
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Comment #147 posted by global_warming on February 22, 2006 at 14:41:44 PT

the title says it all
What's The Real Damage With Weed?The real danger is that 'some people believe all this bs about Cannabis, propaganda that the law enforcement people keep pushing so hard, I reckon that many folk want to really believe that those men in blue are really good people, who have the best interest of the people, the communities that they serve.Unfortunately, the real damage with the weed is that some folks are so frightened by this weed, they have called it the 'devils weed, yup that 'cursed devil, right out of some medieval Dante'an hell.They really know and understand the harms of this devil weed, they insist that any one who uses this plant, should pay the devil in this life on earth.I can only pity such frightened fools, timid shrewes, who lurk in the shadows of this life.For the day will come, when their eyes shall open, so that may see clearly, what they have done, and that must pay for for their acts upon the flesh of mankind.
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Comment #146 posted by FoM on February 22, 2006 at 08:00:12 PT

lombar
Now that I got a good nights sleep I want to say something about your post. I tend to look at the facet rather then the whole gem. The reason is because that is my major concern as far as doing CNews goes. The whole gem is complex and will take a long time to be seen clearly by everyone but a facet of the gem can be seen clearly if we look closely.
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Comment #145 posted by afterburner on February 21, 2006 at 23:23:45 PT

Strawman Argument because No One I Know Says...
that cannabis is harmless or benign:"It is obvious that (marijuana) is harmful," Palfai said. "The word 'drug' entails that the consumption is going to cause your body harm in some way, shape or form.""The attitude with college students is that they don't see marijuana as benign as, say, cigarettes or more (long-term damaging drugs)," said Dr. Bruce Carter, associate dean of faculty in the child and families studies department. "It is true that marijuana is not as harmful as some of these other drugs, but that does not mean that the drug is not benign."As lombar pointed out, 'drugs' are used in medical practice to cure, heal or alleviate pain, not to "harm" the body. All 'drugs,' 'substances,' herbs, foods, and even water have side effects and can be abused. Doctors take the Hippocratic Oath to "do no harm," yet all their 'drugs' have side effects.Even the Strawman argument is poorly written as shown by the double negative.A red letter day: ayahuasca use in religion trumps the CSA (Controled Substances Act), but port security is in danger of being turned over to questionable foreign interests.What can we expect in a country split almost 50-50 politically between the old guard and the new reality? Stand firm. Our influence is growing. "Time is on my side," sang the Rolling Stones so many years ago.Speaking of the Rastaman is coming [to California]:'NJ Weedman' Hopes Grass Is Greener In California
http://kyw.com/local/local_story_051104209.html
[Comment #1 posted by FoM on February 20, 2006 IN Marijuana Petitioners Call Current Law a Failure]MY HOMETOWN - Bruce Springsteen Lyrics
http://www.myclassiclyrics.com/bruce_springsteen/myhometo.htm
"Foreman says these jobs are going boys and they ain't coming back to your hometown"
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Comment #144 posted by FoM on February 21, 2006 at 22:28:42 PT

lombar
I'm so tired I can't think of anything to say except very good.
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Comment #143 posted by Hope on February 21, 2006 at 22:23:52 PT

Lombar
 "Every person sees a different facet and it is within everyones power to step back but most do not. They see their facet as all of reality and dismiss all other facets as false, non-existent, or heretical."I've never heard it put like that before. I like it.
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Comment #142 posted by lombar on February 21, 2006 at 22:10:43 PT

Cannabis news is 'the right stuff'! re : #88
Thank you. I find that many posters here are far more eloquent in expressing their outrage that the stupidity of drug-prohibition, especially cannabis. Or seeing the wrongness in so many statements. However, a doctor should know better. I suppose the last thing an 'expert' can ever say is 'I don't know'. However I find that in order to find out the truth of something one has to be able to suspend their 'beliefs' and start at "I don't know". One must separate what one 'knows' with what one 'believes'. People who are willing to say 'I don't know' often know lots. Also I have to consider the only reason they quoted the guy is because his 'beliefs' were congruent with the current will of the powers-that-be. The reporters never ever challenge this flup.(Sometimes I think of reality as a many faceted gem that we are all right up close to. If we step back, we can see its a wonderful and beautiful gem with many faces, up close its flat although with depth. Every person sees a different facet and it is within everyones power to step back but most do not. They see their facet as all of reality and dismiss all other facets as false, non-existent, or heretical. Many times, when people post here, they are trying to show us their facet or take on the whole jewel. Many have stepped back and looked upon the whole jewel. We don't all see the same thing when we look at the gem because we are individuals with varying genetics, environment, upbringing, geographic locations, etc. We are all looking into the center of the gem yet we are all the gem. I get a little annoyed when 'experts' start throwing the dirt of deception or ignorance on the gem to obscure the view for others. I had wondered at the appropriateness of the post because I really wanted to rip that guy a new one just from his one sentence alone... After that he has no credibility to me.I hate ignorance, I hate deception, and I hate war! The war on drugs is all three. As much as I hate the idea of hard drugs being cheap and easy to obtain, its true already and prohibition does just make it worse. It stays in the shadows and those that love the shadows hate the light.
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Comment #141 posted by whig on February 21, 2006 at 21:37:26 PT

Hope
I don't know exactly what to expect but my wife was happy when I told her, because she said he helped her when she was going, but then she stopped going for some reason. She's even more leery of doctors than me. After having been put through the MS mill, it's understandable. I can't avoid dealing with MDs or possibly an Osteopath in order to get the enzymes that I need to prevent my bones from getting worse. I've had one hip replacement and don't want to do that again.I think my headache is mostly referred pain anyhow, because when I take cannabis I can tell that my bones hurt but when I'm sober I don't feel it directly. I'm just agitated, trembling a lot, and I have a headache of some level. I have a lot of undirected energy, but when I try to focus myself, it tends to run out pretty fast too. Exhausted.Back before my hip was replaced, I had a concrete reason to focus on, I had specific pain in that place, and I could explain it easily enough. Now it's harder to explain. The pain isn't as bad, but it isn't...gone. Just different.
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Comment #140 posted by FoM on February 21, 2006 at 21:36:00 PT

Hope
I guess I think that the money stays here in the states because it is benefical to the companies but the work is cheaper in other countries so they outsource. I don't have any answer to this problem but when a nation loses hope and they can't feed their family it makes that country ripe for a revolution. I see this so easily but why don't those in charge see it?
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Comment #139 posted by Hope on February 21, 2006 at 21:29:00 PT

"folding up shop"
I've seen it here, too. It makes me sad, too.
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Comment #138 posted by FoM on February 21, 2006 at 21:24:55 PT

Hope
We once were a great nation. I'm sad because we aren't anymore. The only employment for young people will be the Military or fast food places. We don't have big companies like we did. My father in law retired from Firestone a plant that employeed 5,000 people and it's gone now. NCR in our area is gone now. Almost every factory that we had in our local small town is gone or running a skeleton crew. General Tire even changed hands and it was a company that was good for our town. I don't know how other towns are doing but ours seems like it's folding up shop.
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Comment #137 posted by Hope on February 21, 2006 at 21:21:14 PT

Wonderful, Whig!
There's a real chance he can help you. Give him a little time...but I thought even my first visit wrought a remarkable improvement.He was pleased I that I'd gone since before Christmas through most of February without an adjustment and without headaches...that kind of daily headache. I still had a couple of migraines. I know where they came from. I think he'd only treated me about a month before that...first three times a week, then twice a week, now once a week for a while. It's a bother...but it's worth it. Probably save my liver a lot of wreckage from tylenol and advil, too.
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Comment #136 posted by whig on February 21, 2006 at 21:14:33 PT

Chiro
Oh, I got an appt for Tuesday!
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Comment #135 posted by Hope on February 21, 2006 at 21:12:55 PT

"Can of Worms"
That is the truth! It's all been insane. I am glad the cruelties of the Taliban were checked somewhat...if they were. But Iraq looked to me like Bush Jr. trying to finish up what everyone said his daddy should have done...and now this Iraq business. I'm really afraid of that money grubbing war mongering bunch that seems to be running the world into a hole. It may not be that...but it dang sure looks like it. And you know what they say about looking like a duck and walking like a duck.
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Comment #134 posted by Hope on February 21, 2006 at 21:08:32 PT

Testy...
besides a big mouth gal from Texas...headaches can make a person testy. See a chiropractor, please. I went yesterday and it's nothing short of amazing. 
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Comment #133 posted by FoM on February 21, 2006 at 20:58:33 PT

Hope
When we invaded Iraq we opened up a big can of worms. If we only would have found and arrested Bin Laden then we would be safe. We picked on a country not the master mind of 9/11. If I had an army from another country shooting up and killing my neighbors and friends I'd go crazy too. Now we are suffering the consequences of the administrations actions and it's really going to be hard to fix. I really don't know if it can be fixed. This could wind up a world war.
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Comment #132 posted by whig on February 21, 2006 at 20:56:47 PT

#131
"It's wierd. I don't feel like anyone is really watching after real safety from invasion. Maybe there is nothing to fear and we've just been fed a bunch of fear mongering and planned terror events so that we will give up our rights and plea for protection. I don't know. But it worries me."Yep. That covers it.Sorry if I was testy, I'm just really suspicious that this is a propaganda ploy, and even if it isn't, I'd rather let the Republicans eat their own.
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Comment #131 posted by Hope on February 21, 2006 at 20:52:04 PT

Our ports
I thought we ran them and they belonged to people here, too...until I realized the huge BP oil company so prevalent in Texas is actually British Petroleum. It really surprised me. I felt pretty dumb. People used to complain about how much of this country Japanese own, when the Dutch and British own much more. It's wierd. I don't feel like anyone is really watching after real safety from invasion. Maybe there is nothing to fear and we've just been fed a bunch of fear mongering and planned terror events so that we will give up our rights and plea for protection. I don't know. But it worries me.
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Comment #130 posted by FoM on February 21, 2006 at 20:26:10 PT

Hope
Please don't even worry. I understood what you were saying. What really bothers me about this whole port thing is I always believed they were run by us. My father told me that we will always guard against anyone trying to come into our country to do us harm. Maybe he was being over simplistic but it calmed me down when I was worried. I have been to the Long Beach Port back in 94 or so. I have seen and been near others too. I always thought they were so risky and would be an easy way of bringing in any number of biological or other weapons. We must stand up when we feel threatened by others in another country. That's what I was taught. I honestly thought we ran our ports. I really did. Wanna Buy a Port?: http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/02/21/AR2006022101177.html
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Comment #129 posted by Hope on February 21, 2006 at 20:07:01 PT

Maybe he thought I was flirting...
and it offended him.
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Comment #128 posted by Hope on February 21, 2006 at 20:05:00 PT

Well...I don't know what went wrong
that day in front of the dairy case. Maybe I had something nasty on my upper lip.
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Comment #127 posted by Hope on February 21, 2006 at 20:03:10 PT

nuff said...and reflections
I tried to let a light of love shine from my face. I smiled warmly because I sincerely felt warmly toward him. He truly glared and made a hateful face at me. It was no reflection.Anyway...I forgive him. I shouldn't have done it if I hadn't such been such a let my little love light shine hillbilly. 
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Comment #126 posted by whig on February 21, 2006 at 20:01:55 PT

At the Lebanese restaurant...
I went there one time when I was pretty stoned... Had a nice meal, and went to pay the cashier. Pretty girl. She could tell. She smiled.Just my little story for the moment.
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Comment #125 posted by Hope on February 21, 2006 at 20:00:12 PT

I've never said I wasn't "silly"...
I've just said that I don't like to be called "silly". But I can be...and all too often.
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Comment #124 posted by Hope on February 21, 2006 at 19:58:48 PT

Actually, Whig...there was "fear", on my part
of him feeling bad and feeling blamed in some way about it all.Kind of silly of me, really. I should have ignored him.
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Comment #123 posted by Hope on February 21, 2006 at 19:56:47 PT

No...I'm not all that nice.
I just had to apologize to a Texas Narcotics Task Force officer over at another blog. I chewed his rear out pretty hideously. He can probably sue me. I apologized. But no...when I pop off...I sometimes am not very nice. I've actually been told before on that same blog that I have been "mean" to officers.I didn't mean to be mean. It's some sort of scolding mode I go into. It's not the way to debate. Maybe they don't mean to be mean either. I think I do it less often and less traumatically than they do though.The mother hen that I am can get mad. And being a Game hen just makes it that much more raucous.Sorry to disappoint you.
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Comment #122 posted by whig on February 21, 2006 at 19:53:16 PT

#119
Okay, sorry. It wasn't hatred. But it sounds like there was fear. I'm sorry for misunderstanding.
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Comment #121 posted by whig on February 21, 2006 at 19:51:37 PT

We cross-posted...so one more
You don't need my forgiveness because I'm not angry at you. I love you because you are part of my family here. My maternal grandparents used to call black people "schwarze" under their breath. I didn't hate them. I loved them. But they were wrong.We should try to be better than this. I want you to know that you are a good person and you are loved by so many people, and you shine your love on so many others. Don't turn your love light down.
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Comment #120 posted by Hope on February 21, 2006 at 19:51:12 PT

And besides that.
There is a reason why I have on one vanilla sock and one chocolate sock.
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Comment #119 posted by Hope on February 21, 2006 at 19:50:06 PT

Whig
You misunderstand me. I did like him. I did not want him to think that I did not like him...just because he was of Arab descent. You misunderstood me. I did like him. I thought he was handsome...beautiful, even. He was clean, he was well groomed. I had no dislike of him whatever...I was trying in my small way to comfort him if I could.Oh Lord...
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Comment #118 posted by whig on February 21, 2006 at 19:47:01 PT

Comment to Hope, and then I'll stop
You are such a nice person, that it really makes me upset to read when you write things like this:"I was going to be nice and smile and not act like I didn't like seeing him or anything...and he glared back at me with the most hateful scowl. I don't think they like strange women to smile at them, might be part of the problem."When someone who really doesn't like you smiles at you and pretends that they do, are you fooled by it? Does it seem to you like they are sincerely friendly? You had hatred in your heart for him, and what you saw was just a reflection of what he saw from you.Nuff.
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Comment #117 posted by Hope on February 21, 2006 at 19:46:15 PT

Whig
Sorry I upset you. I hope you'll forgive me.
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Comment #116 posted by Hope on February 21, 2006 at 19:44:10 PT

Whig comment 114
No one, Whig. It's just a little paranoia that occurs to me now and then since Afghanistan was in the news.
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Comment #115 posted by whig on February 21, 2006 at 19:40:12 PT

Sorry
This is off-topic, but I saw a lot of discussion on this thread about it and it made me kind of upset. I was brought up Jewish and there is a lot of anti-Arabic sentiment in that community. I don't think it's right, and I think that we of all people should know better than to engage in racialist thinking.
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Comment #114 posted by whig on February 21, 2006 at 19:37:20 PT

Hope
Who is trying to make you wear a burkha?
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Comment #113 posted by whig on February 21, 2006 at 19:36:32 PT

Hope
Those ports were run by a Chinese company until now.I think this is a huge distraction, at best intended to give the administration cover to nationalize the ports.
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Comment #112 posted by Hope on February 21, 2006 at 19:34:45 PT

Anti-Arab
I'm not anti-Arab, at all. I don't think. I just don't think we should hand over six of our largest ports to another country...any other country...even Great Britain.I am kind of Anti-Bhurka and all that that entails for my personal attire. If a woman is happy in a bhurka...I am happy for her. I am not a busy body. But I shudder at the thought of being forced into that sort of existence myself...or any woman that didn't want it.
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Comment #111 posted by whig on February 21, 2006 at 19:32:38 PT

Discrimination
http://www.antiwar.com/eland/?articleid=8582"But if Arab companies truly cannot be trusted to operate U.S. ports, then shouldnít they be banned from all involvement with U.S. airports, farming, electrical generation, water works, nuclear power plants, chemical, biomedical, and pharmaceutical production, and tunnel, bridge, stadium, and skyscraper construction? Extending this flawed logic further, perhaps even airlines from Arab countries should be banned from landing at U.S. airports because they might be used in terrorism or bring terrorists into the United Statesóin spite of the fact that the planes used on 9/11 were U.S. airliners."
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Comment #110 posted by whig on February 21, 2006 at 19:27:33 PT

Anti-Arab sentiment
I don't like it.In the months after 9/11/01 I made an extra effort to eat at the Lebanese restaurant up the street, because I know their business fell off from some other people who want to blame everyone of Arabic descent.Timothy McVeigh was convicted of blowing up the Oklahoma City Federal Building. Should we no longer trust anyone from Idaho? There are a number of Christian Identity militia-type folks up there, after all.
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Comment #109 posted by konagold on February 21, 2006 at 19:18:08 PT:

Cannabis Church
Alohaplease check The Religion of Jesus Church web site listed belowfounded 1969 Sonoma CA.membership is freeto demonstrate membership just print the santuary pageI have primed our attorney to seak fed injuctive relief months agoAloha
Rev. Dennis Shields 
http://thereligionofjesuschurch.org
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Comment #108 posted by FoM on February 21, 2006 at 19:04:16 PT

Hope
Sometimes when I look at the big picture I see what the love of money has done to our country. It's really sad. It's like a big pyramid scheme. Those in at the beginning will make a lot of money but those later on will lose. We aren't important and that's reality. 
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Comment #107 posted by Hope on February 21, 2006 at 18:49:43 PT

I'll have to go slower than originally imagined 
probably. At least until I get in considerably better horseback riding shape (condition) than I am now. Oh heck...I forgot about the sometimes feeling of night blindness and the bifocals!The horse in my imagination is getting slower and bigger and less fiesty by the moment.Lol!
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Comment #106 posted by Hope on February 21, 2006 at 18:43:49 PT

It could be too late.
It certainly could.I hope the imagining of the rejoicing party comes true and not the imagining of you and I being burka clad Paul Reveres of the New Century.
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Comment #105 posted by Hope on February 21, 2006 at 18:42:15 PT

Still Off Topic...."Sacked-Out"
For those who might not be familiar with that term it means I would let my horse see the burka and smell it. Then I would pet her with it...all over...including her ankles, legs, and belly. I'd let it hang around her neck and on her back...keeping her calm. I would eventually wave it at her. She'd get used to seeing and feeling it blow in the breeze. In a very few sessions she will know all about burkas, know how they feel, and everything they can do and she will not fear it at all.I hope that doesn't sound cruel. Well actually it does. The whole damn burka bit. It's like a portable tent prison.It really irks me. It looks a hideous existence to me. 
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Comment #104 posted by FoM on February 21, 2006 at 18:05:39 PT

Hope
I swear I sure wish there was an easy answer to this problem but it might be too late. The box has been opened.
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Comment #103 posted by Hope on February 21, 2006 at 18:04:46 PT

comment 101
Dang! That's sad.If it comes to it, American women would be riding horseback through the streets at night on black bhurka sacked out horses to regain our freedom somehow! Surely!
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Comment #102 posted by Hope on February 21, 2006 at 18:02:04 PT

Can you imagine how much 
an American horse would appreciate being ridden by a woman in a bhurka? Or even seeing one ? My word! It would be stampede city!
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Comment #101 posted by FoM on February 21, 2006 at 18:00:45 PT

Hope
I know I had to walk behind my husband not at his side or I got terrible glares. I couldn't ask for advice either. I had to be quiet and they talked only to my husband.
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Comment #100 posted by Hope on February 21, 2006 at 17:59:29 PT

ah....another double negative...
"...don't put me in no dang bhurka!"
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Comment #99 posted by Hope on February 21, 2006 at 17:58:30 PT

Please....
I've got fence to fix and brush to clear and livestock to tend...don't put me in no dang bhurka!
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Comment #98 posted by FoM on February 21, 2006 at 17:58:24 PT

Hope 
I have no problem with Muslims. I believe most are family people and non violent and just want to live their lives. How can we speak without offending? How can we say we don't agree without being criticized? I don't want our country to become a Muslim Nation. Is that so wrong? Should we be ok with not having anything that is strickly american? 
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Comment #97 posted by Hope on February 21, 2006 at 17:57:22 PT

days after 9/11
A gentleman of Arab descent was at the milk cooler in the grocery store at the same time as I. I was going to be nice and smile and not act like I didn't like seeing him or anything...and he glared back at me with the most hateful scowl. I don't think they like strange women to smile at them, might be part of the problem. Or maybe he was just sick of all the nice people in our little community and would rather people just ignored him, or even glared at him, under the circumstances.What if they take over? I can't help but think about it from time to time. No driving. No running around without my headscarf and no smiling at strange men, I guess, or they'll cut my lips off or beat me or something. I fear that would be the least of it.
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Comment #96 posted by Hope on February 21, 2006 at 17:50:47 PT

FoM
Truck Stops and Convenience and Grocery stores. That worries me, too, FoM...and Doctors, it seems, too. It makes me wonder.Even here in rural Texas we have that situation to a very noticable extent. The cities even moreso. I couldn't help but notice it before 9/11 and afterwards it really got my attention. It's worrisome and I never want to be prejudiced and look down on anyone...I don't look down on them at all...but looking AT them and the numbers they are here in and well, it would be ignoring the facts not to be a little concerned.
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Comment #95 posted by Hope on February 21, 2006 at 17:44:16 PT

Dear Whig...
Your choice of language made me smile...I was sure you were going to say your "little toe" instead of your "conciousness"."By analogy in the physical world, my little toe comes from my genes and is part of my body, and my words which I type across the electronic impulses of this space are an extension of my consciousness."Whisper to Whig:(I don't talk about it around here that much, because most of the people here are inclined to strictly medical cannabis or strictly cannabis, but I, and a very few other CNewsers, so agree with you that the entire WoD is a travesty that is destroying this country more than any amount of drug use freedom of choice concerning the individual and personal use of any drug ever could. It is a "full war" open forum over at DrugWarRant.)
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Comment #94 posted by FoM on February 21, 2006 at 17:33:58 PT

Hope
One of the things I always thought was strange when I was on the road with my husband was the amount of Arab people that bought out the big truck stops. I didn't understand why we put Arabs in semi trucks and subsidize them either.
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Comment #93 posted by Hope on February 21, 2006 at 17:21:40 PT

and
to add to the list of problems in my last post...our military is disbursed and scattered all over the world.And something else...I knew we were in big trouble when they started calling our country "The Homeland". That sent rigors all over me then and it still does.
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Comment #92 posted by Hope on February 21, 2006 at 17:17:59 PT

Comment 90
Believe me, FoM, a lot of people are looking at this exactly the way you are.Something terrifyingly fishy has been going on with our country for a very long time. Our government is practically a police state. Our jobs have been sent overseas. Our factories have been sent overseas. Foreign countries disproportionately are in control of some serious real estate in our country. It's excruciatingly disturbing.I fear a few greedy, rich, powerful people have sold out the entire nation for personal profit.The United Arab Emirates is not a place I would ever want to be and I don't feel good about them being here in such numbers and in such positions of power over the lives of Americans. 

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Comment #91 posted by Hope on February 21, 2006 at 17:06:36 PT

Turning over our ports to the 
United Arab Emirates.What's the "message" they are sending with this one?
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Comment #90 posted by FoM on February 21, 2006 at 17:06:00 PT

Just a Comment
I saw a man on one of these news shows today act really uppity and said if it doesn't go thru they will consider it like discrimination. I don't understand how we can trust any of our ports to any country but our own. I just don't get outsourcing something this important. They just said one of the ports is outsourced to China. Why is Bush pushing people into these things? Where is bin laden? Someone else must at least thing a little like me on this issue.
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Comment #89 posted by Sam Adams on February 21, 2006 at 16:53:58 PT

Cannabis Timeline
goneposthole, thanks for the posting, what a great website, I've already sent it to a few people I know.I can't believe the Dubai ports deal. The ruling class seems intent on selling us out as fast as possible. Bush is more concerned with hooking up his Arab oil buddies that he ever will be with us middle-class Americans.As for the article, I am again reminded of George Orwell. It's sad that so many in our society feel that they can advance themselves by looking down on others (potsmokers). Lying and scapegoating others just to make themselves look good.Let he who is without sin cast the first stone. Why doesn't the author take a hard look at his own life. Why doesn't work on improving his own physical and moral health by leading a more virtuous lifestyle, instead of demeaning others, aiding the government in demonizing and arresting millions of innocent, hard-working people?How can anyone seriously compare the effects of dry mouth, mild paranoia, etc, with the effects of an alcohol hangover? Cannabis has never forced me to the bathroom, crouching over the toilet for 36 hours with alcohol poisoning. But alcohol sure did, on my 21st birthday. What a lying, spineless hypocritical little tattle-tale this guy is.
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Comment #88 posted by FoM on February 21, 2006 at 16:46:25 PT

lombar
Very good. I sure can't put things together like you just did.
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Comment #87 posted by lombar on February 21, 2006 at 16:42:28 PT

Has anyone heard the term Codswallop?
"The word 'drug' entails that the consumption is going to cause your body harm in some way, shape or form."Is that just illicit 'drugs'? Most people doctors give drugs to their patients 'help' them. Using an anti-biotic when you have an infection, does that harm the body? The whole pharmacutical industry is based upon 'treatment', not so much cures anyway. While he is raging on about ignorance, he is revealing his own. Maybe I use cannabis to help me have patience when dealing with morons who insist I deserve to be in a cage.If we were to hold everything we wish to be legal to the standard of absolute harmlessness NOTHING would be legal. A person can drown in water, choke on a screw, get hit by a car, etc. This argument is pointless and you can bet this 'doctor' has prescribed far more dangerous drugs during his carreer.paranoia,
 
- So, if you face prison for burning a stinky plant, is it really paranoia? Paranoia is being afraid of imaginary enemies and harm..dry mouth,
 
- Just about every new drug on TV lists this as a possible side-effect. Drink a glass of water or milk. What a brutal side effect for something that feels good.respiratory problems-As yet not really proven but lets assume that it is true just to be on the safe side. Smoking is not the safest way to consume cannabis. You can eat it or vaporize it. Smoking is not the only way to consume cannabis but having it is the way to end up in prison.heart problems,
 
-An increase in heart rate, this guy is stretching for any reason at all. Don't you think potato chips and a sedentary lifestyle may be more dangerous?inability to concentrate,-How does one define 'concentrate'? If we are to take the buddhist point of view, access concentration leads to sammadhi. So now the general public must be master meditators? Most people are unable to concentrate and think critically, cannabis or no. If anything, it helps you concentrate.(by increasing contentment, lowering other desires)impaired memory -Short term memory and short term impairment. Must have forgot that Doc.motivation loss.-Lots of 'motivated' people are opposing stupid cannabis laws, not all of them are puritans, I am sure. If he means not 'motivated' to be someones wage-slave, even that cannot be generalized. Besides, should cannabis give rise to a greater sense of contentment, why would the people be 'over-acheivers'? If one is contented, they have more peace of mind and less desire, ambition, and delusion(s). Perhaps that is what they really fear. Overconsumption requires people to be constantly wanting, people who don't want much, don't consume much thus do not inflate their bogus economic indicators.Society has far bigger fish to fry than teens smoking some pot but as long as we cannot get rational sane cannabis laws, why should I believe we will ever get rational sane policy of any kind.
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Comment #86 posted by Hope on February 21, 2006 at 16:39:41 PT

Port Issue
It's unbelievable. I think there may be some treason involved in this port situation since the events involving NYC's Twin Towers...if the circumstances surrounding that horror were what they, the gov, said they were... and especially if the people supposedly responsible for that came out of the United Arab Emmirate.My husband is a Republican...and not just a Republican but a pretty irritating one. We don't really talk about politics or we argue. Even he, today, is worried and didn't poo poo anthing I said about what I fear the Bush regime may or may not have been involved in.He says even Rush Limbaugh is upset about this and if Rush doesn't kiss that Admininistration all over the place and defend it mindlessly...no one does.It really frightens me. Some of these people that we are supposed to trust, appear to literally be in cahoots with people we have been led to believe we should doubt and possibly fear. Six of the largest ports on the East Coast controlled by the United Arab Emmirate...Immerate? That's not spelled right...but you know what I'm trying to say.The logic of that proposal escapes me. It's extraordinarily stupid greed or worse.We're told that some of ya say ya want to kill us...want to wipe out our large cities to the tune of huge casualties...here come right in the front door and have wonderful access to our largest cities. Here come right in...it's all yours. Here's the key.This is VERY disturbing.
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Comment #85 posted by CorvallisEric on February 21, 2006 at 16:35:49 PT

FoM (comment 82)
You gave me the excuse I needed to post my prediction: the port deal is somehow-or-other going to fail.I don't know enough to have an informed opinion on the issue itself, but I'll certainly be happy to see Bush fail, whatever 
the reason. I also predict this will become a big political drag on Bush and Co.
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Comment #84 posted by Max Flowers on February 21, 2006 at 16:30:14 PT

FoM
Cry not, for this misstep and severe misjudgment of Bush's (and every new one, potentially) will quite possibly be the proverbial "last straw" for the American people. I strongly believe the last straw is coming soon, and though it seems the camel's back should have broken about ten "straws" ago, trust me, one of these new ones---if not the port issue, then maybe his next one---will do the trick and the people will finally decide not to take any more of this criminal negligence and plotting. Congresspersons are starting to wake up, including Republican ones, and this can't go on much longer. I think a lot of people are disgusted by this port deal and it won't go through. If he vetoes, he's going to have a big backlash (that is already building) explode in his face. I for one can't wait.
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Comment #83 posted by potpal on February 21, 2006 at 16:06:01 PT

Everybody 'is' doing it...
As we speak.Anyway, saw this, found it interesting, hadn't seen it posted here but it may have, if so, sorry for the double post...http://www.alternet.org/drugreporter/32194/Cheers.
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Comment #82 posted by FoM on February 21, 2006 at 15:34:30 PT

Off Topic: This Upsets Me
I feel almost like crying over this port issue. I don't get that sad over most political issues but this is such a slap in our faces. How can it happen? Where is our pride as a country? Bush Shrugs Off Objections to Port Dealhttp://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/n/a/2006/02/21/national/w143807S75.DTL
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Comment #81 posted by global_warming on February 21, 2006 at 15:01:36 PT

the 'prophets 'live
and 'scripture is being written,in these digital corridors,what is a man?whose thoughts and wordsreverberate throughout the Infinite,it is amazing,that in this electronic church,'we can discuss all of the issues that weigh heavy on this day and our souls.This stream of thoughts and writ, are a balm, and illuminate, the hearts and minds, for all to see, for all when thay are ready to embrace, and become a 'citizen, a 'witness,The Time is near, when Cannabis, and Good Humans will be able to 'live, to inherit, their place in this sun.
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Comment #80 posted by Hope on February 21, 2006 at 14:48:14 PT

  lol
good ones
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Comment #79 posted by BGreen on February 21, 2006 at 13:47:43 PT

I don't know about no double negatives
but I know I can't get no satisfaction. :-)But I tried. LOLThe Reverend Bud Green
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Comment #78 posted by whig on February 21, 2006 at 13:46:01 PT

Ain't Got No Home
http://tinyurl.com/gplke
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Comment #77 posted by FoM on February 21, 2006 at 13:44:23 PT

I Got One I Think
I do not know nothing about what's wrong or right.
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Comment #76 posted by Hope on February 21, 2006 at 13:41:18 PT

It does not do nothing
to complain all the time.
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Comment #75 posted by FoM on February 21, 2006 at 13:29:14 PT

Double Negative
I was trying to think of a double negative to post but I can't think of one.
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Comment #74 posted by Hope on February 21, 2006 at 13:23:30 PT

I think he was supposed to say
"...that does not mean that the drug is benign."I don't think it means it's a "drug" either.The double negative has him saying that the drug is in fact benign...because he cannot say that it is not benign.
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Comment #73 posted by FoM on February 21, 2006 at 13:23:04 PT

 whig
That's good. Life is often fatal. Very good.
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Comment #72 posted by Hope on February 21, 2006 at 13:20:29 PT

Well...that was kind of jumbled.
Dr. Carter said, ""It is true that marijuana is not as harmful as some of these other drugs, but that does NOT mean that the drug is NOT benign."Double negatives.
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Comment #71 posted by whig on February 21, 2006 at 13:20:27 PT

FoM
Life is often fatal.
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Comment #70 posted by FoM on February 21, 2006 at 13:20:05 PT

Hope
I understand what you mean. Living is toxic. 
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Comment #69 posted by whig on February 21, 2006 at 13:19:03 PT

#68
It's a well-known fact that most mass murderers drank milk at some point in their childhood. There's a nearly perfect correlation.
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Comment #68 posted by Hope on February 21, 2006 at 13:17:46 PT

Actually....
Is there anything that's truly benign.Water? No. Milk? No. Air? No. Light? No. I can't think of anything cept maybe a rock that doesn't move, hit, or trip you. They can explode. I've seen it...not too long ago as a matter of fact.Sand? That could probably tear your bowels up if you ingested it...and grind down a mountain when tossed about with some pressure. Gelatin? Dissolved, unflavored gelatin makes me puke, unless it's in a gelatin capsule. Now the right kind...or the wrong kind, I should say, of gelatin could carry CJD.What I was talking about though was the use of a double negative in the sentence...which completely changes it's meaning.I'm not sure that anything in creation is truly completely benign in every circumstance. Can NOT say that it is NOT benign?
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Comment #67 posted by whig on February 21, 2006 at 13:12:56 PT

Hope #61
On that note, I agree with you and I go further and believe that the entire war on drugs should stop. Nobody should go to jail for what they put in their body. Those who abuse drugs, be it alcohol or heroin, should be helped, not punished. We should try to educate everyone as much as we can about the effects, positive and negative, of every plant or substance, and do what we can to ensure that nothing is ever adulterated or misrepresented. We should provide harm reduction services to help people make informed decisions. We should provide counseling for those who need it. There is much more we can and should do. But we must stop treating drugs as a criminal matter.
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Comment #66 posted by FoM on February 21, 2006 at 13:11:50 PT

BGreen 
That's how I feel. It's very personal and should be for everyone.
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Comment #65 posted by BGreen on February 21, 2006 at 13:09:25 PT

The point is ... FoM doesn't HAVE to agree!
Our religious views are PERSONAL!Nothing is said about "preestablished" or "state condoned," so I don't really care if FoM agrees (yet or ever) with the view that some of us (whig, etc.) have accepted.It doesn't matter because religion is PERSONAL!Once again, my views concerning MY God and MY sacraments are PERSONAL (and well established on this board.) No government (nor female friend in Ohio LOL) has any direct effect on my personal spirituality.The Lord God is my God, His son Jesus is my Spiritual Guru, Lord and Savior, and I believe that cannabis IS the Tree Of Life as well as my sacrament.I believe it, I live it and in MY LIFE THIS IS THE TRUTH!The Reverend Bud Green
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Comment #64 posted by FoM on February 21, 2006 at 13:05:22 PT

Not Benign
What in life in the things that we do or what we consume is benign?
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Comment #63 posted by whig on February 21, 2006 at 13:02:38 PT

FoM
I respect your belief, and intend no offense to it.I believe God encompasses all of us, that all life comes from God and is part of God, and even that which is not living is extension of God. By analogy in the physical world, my little toe comes from my genes and is part of my body, and my words which I type across the electronic impulses of this space are an extension of my consciousness. I believe all life is sacred and deserving of respect. I believe in only one God, because I believe all of us are part of the same being, which is larger than any of us or all of us together because it encompasses more than this. I do not put God's finger before God, nor do I put Cannabis on a pedestal to be worshipped for itself, but to me it is like part of God's nervous system, which connects our disparate parts together. Those are my beliefs, which I do not express in order to force you or anyone to agree with, but simply in order to explain myself.
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Comment #62 posted by Hope on February 21, 2006 at 13:01:20 PT

Does The Dr. even know what he's saying?
 "It is true that marijuana is not as harmful as some of these other drugs, but that does not mean that the drug is not benign."Maybe he does.
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Comment #61 posted by Hope on February 21, 2006 at 12:57:25 PT

Whig,
I hope this decision bodes well for your desire to be able to use cannabis someday as a legally respected sacrament used in your search and communing with God.My goal is to stop anyone for being persecuted for it's use. Cannabis can be useful...a tool...like a quiet room...or a mountain top, in your commune with the spiritual and I know it's important to you and I say go for it.I do care very much about religious and medical use...but it's not what it's about for me. Medical and religious are part of it...but it's the persecution of anybody over using a plant for their personal use in any form...even in the least way, that I am interested in ending. I don't necessarily see either of those options, medical or religious, as freeing anyone but an exclusive few. I want all the people old enough to choose for themselves to be free to do so without fear of persecution from the state or anyone else. God has the patent on it and he gave it to humanity. Busybody prohibitionists need to back off. Their prohibitions always breed something even worse than what they decided they could take upon themselves to prohibt the rest of mankind from using. How dare they? And they do great harm to many and all with their assinine prohibition of something that could let people find a safer alternative to use for pleasure than tobacco or alcohol.
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Comment #60 posted by FoM on February 21, 2006 at 12:55:23 PT

observer
Just because I am paranoid doesn't mean they aren't out to get me.
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Comment #59 posted by observer on February 21, 2006 at 12:53:37 PT

The ''Real'' Damage 
What's The Real Damage With Weed?The "damage" associated with cannabis is created by governments: authoritarian, paternalistic, totalitarian-leaning governments. 
The absence of physical harm from smoking pot has required that all the punitive force be government created. Punishment for marijuana is thus the great frontier of authoritarianism. A widespread popular behavior detested by the ruling culture has justified war propaganda, police engagement and mass punishment. A new movement began which counseled parents to quit trying to be understanding friends to their kids and develop a toughlove capacity to squelch all individuality and nonconformity in the name of drug resistance. 

Drug Hate and the Corruption of American Justice
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0275959562/ But when it comes to the negative health aspects of marijuana, the list is long. Marijuana users can and will experience any of the following: paranoia, dry mouth, respiratory problems, heart problems, inability to concentrate, impaired memory and motivation loss.Paranoia? How come people don't feel "paranoid" in Amsterdam, and do feel "paranoid" when they toke in fascist police states like Oman, the United States, Guatemala, Zimbabwe, and so on? Maybe the "paranoia" is more of a reasonable precaution to avoid being sent to a rape-camp and forced-labor camp (aka, a US Federal Prison)?Let's see ... we're jailing people that use cannabis, because they are "paranoid" about being jailed. No, we're jailing people for smoking pot, because they might get a dry mouth? Hey, whatever excuse people will buy, that will be the "reason" that "society" needs to "protect" the "children" (by jailing adults who use cannabis). If people won't buy the "pot makes black man rape white woman," or "pot makes people axe murderers" won't sell anymore, try something else. Cars exists? Oh goody, now we can argue that pot smokers need be jailed because cars exist! Then claim pot smokers might drive, thereby endangering all. So arrest all pot smokers, whether they drive or not. Got sociaized medicine? Then double-goody-gumdrops! We can argue that "burden" of the pot smoker is too great for the "community" to bear! Jail pot smokers, all the more! Whatever will work, just keep pipeline of arrested pot users nice and full. Arresting and jailing and stealing property and money from pot smokers is the police state gravy train. Shrewd players know not to touch it. 
http://drugpolicycentral.com/bot/pot
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Comment #58 posted by FoM on February 21, 2006 at 12:49:59 PT

Whig
Let me try again. I don't believe that cannabis is sacred. I believe the Creator is sacred and nothing else. I will never put a creation above or in the same class as the Creator. I believe that is says somewhere thou shall not have any gods before Me. I believe that and I don't want to violate that conviction because that supercedes any religion to me.
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Comment #57 posted by whig on February 21, 2006 at 12:44:54 PT

FoM
I don't think you need to be a member of any organized church to have a sincere religious belief in the sacredness of cannabis. Also, I don't actually want the Peace Church concept to be "organized" in any formal sense either, it would quickly become self-destructive I am sure of that, like every temporal organization with formal members and whatnot.I'm trying to make a difficult point which is that there is something *in between* organized and disorganized -- call it "unorganized". Neither order nor chaos. Free will and free association with a unifying principle that I hope we can agree on -- we are all one.
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Comment #56 posted by whig on February 21, 2006 at 12:37:43 PT

Hope
The court also pointed out that hundreds of thousands of people can use peyote under RFRA. Also, though the opinion did not explicitly mention it, there are non-Indian members of the Native American Church and they have also been respected in their right to use peyote.
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Comment #55 posted by FoM on February 21, 2006 at 12:30:38 PT

Whig
I only am saying I don't believe in present organized religion or future organized religion. Faith is personal for individuals. Sharing faith or no faith is fine with me for everyone.
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Comment #54 posted by Hope on February 21, 2006 at 12:24:41 PT

I'm not a lawyer...but I bet this is just one of
many "catches" put in there to keep cannabis from being an exception also. He speaks earlier of just 140 members in this church and that the peyote exemption didn't keep gov from enforcing the prohibition of peyote for non-Indians. 140 users in a church aren't enought to worry about. The stuff isn't something a lot of people want to use."While there may be instances where a need for uniformity precludes the recognition of exceptions to generally applicable laws under RFRA, ......".  page 4Cannabis is surely one of those "instances where a need for uniforminty precludes the recognition of exceptions to generally applicable laws....".
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Comment #53 posted by whig on February 21, 2006 at 12:19:17 PT

FoM - Organized Religion
I don't agree with any of the established organized religions either, and I respect your privacy, so do not feel like you have to answer any questions about your faith, but I wonder if you wouldn't be happy to be part of a community of faith?In a sense I think you really are already, because in a real sense I see CNews as being that. Everyone is entitled to respect for their own private beliefs and practices, yet we do share some things in common by our choice to come together.Would you rather if spirituality were taken out of our movement and our little family here?We aren't too organized, but we aren't completely without structure either. That's what I like, because if it went too far in either direction it would become a hostile environment. Too much authority, or too much chaos. It is a balance, to stand between these and not go over to either side.
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Comment #52 posted by Max Flowers on February 21, 2006 at 12:12:56 PT

You're right!
I forgot, I stated my spiritual use for the whole world to see, many months ago on these boards, date- and even time-stamped!Thank you for reminding me!! That's excellent.
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Comment #51 posted by whig on February 21, 2006 at 12:10:16 PT

Max #50
FWIW, our discussions of spiritual use of cannabis here and on Museman's board predate the UDV ruling. But even if not, I don't think there is anything in the decision which requires some sort of grandfathering.
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Comment #50 posted by Max Flowers on February 21, 2006 at 12:07:12 PT

whig
I see your point, I guess it could be a bad idea. One would have to be savvy enough to be able to defend their position and support the affidavit, which admittedly not everyone may be able to do, especially without a lawyer. I may not be thinking very clearly due to giddiness over todays' news...Mainly, what I was getting at with the affidavit idea was to deal with my concern that maybe this new protection was only going to be good for people who had in some way documented pre-Uniao de Vegetal-decision that they had already used (cannabis, ayahuasca, whatever) in spirtual practice before the decision. Not sure where I got that concern, I think from a legal discussion that suggested same. 
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Comment #49 posted by FoM on February 21, 2006 at 11:55:33 PT

Dankhank
My faith is only mine. It is very private and I don't attach it to any organized religion. I don't believe in organized religion.
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Comment #48 posted by FoM on February 21, 2006 at 11:49:46 PT

Dankhank
I'm not sure I understand what you mean. I don't believe in any one religion or faith.
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Comment #47 posted by Dankhank on February 21, 2006 at 11:48:07 PT

Faith?
FoMwhat faith rejects Cannabis?
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Comment #46 posted by whig on February 21, 2006 at 11:44:21 PT

Max
"I think we need to come up with an affidavit that folks can use to officially affirm, and file in their file cabinets, that they had already been using cannabis as an adjunct to their spiritual practice for some time, which I would think should conform them with this SC ruling."That's what the THC Ministry does, I believe. I'm not for doing that ourselves, because I am not seeking to create a shelter for people to insincerely immunize themselves. Think about the consequences, if someone just buys a "Redy-Made" affidavit and gets prosecuted, how are they going to explain and prove their sincere belief? It trivializes what we're doing, it makes us look bad, and it raises the odds that some idiot gets prosecuted and loses because he doesn't actually use cannabis as sacrament.
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Comment #45 posted by Max Flowers on February 21, 2006 at 11:32:49 PT

whig
Indeed. I will make it a point to get down there more. We might even talk about forming a religious rights protection organization. Berkeley could not be a more perfect place to form such an entity! We think along the same lines. If we were lawyers, we'd be kicking ass and taking names.When I first read your post I read it as "communication" and then I looked again and saw you wrote "communion"! Absolutely, let's not waste any time setting up legal precedent. I think we need to come up with an affidavit that folks can use to officially affirm, and file in their file cabinets, that they had already been using cannabis as an adjunct to their spiritual practice for some time, which I would think should conform them with this SC ruling.
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Comment #44 posted by Max Flowers on February 21, 2006 at 11:25:11 PT

DMT "dangers"
I have experienced DMT and the "dangers" of it are basically exactly the same as those of alcohol, mainly you are temporarily not in full control of yourself, and lack normal judgement and reasoning capacity. If they banned DMT on this basis, they would have to ban alcohol also. Yes, there is the "danger" that a 13-year-old could get too high on DMT and jump in front of a bus or off a building, but alcohol will cause them to do the very same type of thing, so... where does that lead you...? DMT is also an endogenous compound in the body (as is alcohol as well, unortunately for my point) so it is not a toxin in the pure sense of the word. Chemically, it is not a stranger to the body and is a biochemical.I guess my point is that if the justices are saying DMT is exceptionally dangerous, maybe we need to educate them on drug physiology and clarify what "dangerous" means. I can think of a long list of pharmaceutical drugs that are many orders of magnitude more dangerous than DMT will ever be, and those drugs are legal and out there killing people. I would love for the FDA and other bodies to do an *honest* and scientific anaylsis of which drugs are truly dangerous and which are not. 
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Comment #43 posted by whig on February 21, 2006 at 11:16:32 PT

#42
I & I say; Cannabis is the Tree of Life and the Leaves are for the Healing of the Nations.
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Comment #42 posted by Hope on February 21, 2006 at 11:14:57 PT

The Rastafarian
is on his way!Good for them!
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Comment #41 posted by whig on February 21, 2006 at 11:14:29 PT

runderwo
Actually that's a GOOD thing to have in the opinion, because the court is saying, even GRANTING the presumption that DMT is dangerous, it is STILL protected. If they'd come down and said it's not really that dangerous, then the government could turn around on other things like Cannabis and say, well, THIS is really dangerous so it's different. Now they can't even argue that.
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Comment #40 posted by whig on February 21, 2006 at 11:12:47 PT

Max
One thing -- if we do move out to Berkeley, it would be most excellent if we can establish regular communion between ourselves out there.
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Comment #39 posted by runderwo on February 21, 2006 at 11:10:54 PT

from the decision
"It is true, of course, that Schedule I substances such as DMT are exceptionally dangerous."Uh huh. Or maybe you mean Schedule I substances such as cannabis. Obviously it is true.I mean yeah, the decision works out in the favor of freedom, but I don't like a lot of the reasoning and assumptions that were made in it. This is not the only example I could post.
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Comment #38 posted by whig on February 21, 2006 at 11:10:02 PT

Max
FoM has reservations about the word "Eucharist" which I'm trying to address, and I do think we'd be better discussing this in detail at Museman's place because not everyone who reads CNews is religious at all, and we could make some people uncomfortable. I don't think we really have a major difference of opinion among ourselves, but a terminology problem which comes from the fact that we have different backgrounds.
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Comment #37 posted by Max Flowers on February 21, 2006 at 11:08:10 PT

whig
You reading my mind again??
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Comment #36 posted by Max Flowers on February 21, 2006 at 11:07:28 PT

FoM
I believe that Cannabis can be a tool to find a deeper meaning in our faith.That's it then---you qualify for the same protection under this decision that we are talking about! Congrats!

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Comment #35 posted by whig on February 21, 2006 at 11:06:25 PT

FoM
I really do think you and I are saying the same thing, I just use broader language than you're comfortable with adopting.
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Comment #34 posted by whig on February 21, 2006 at 10:58:59 PT

Runderwo
Have you been over to Museman's place yet?
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Comment #33 posted by FoM on February 21, 2006 at 10:57:25 PT

runderwo 
The way I look at this whole issue is back in the beginning of the counter culture movement for lack of what to call it Cannabis and LSD were used as a tool to get closer to God. I believe that Cannabis can be a tool to find a deeper meaning in our faith. 
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Comment #32 posted by whig on February 21, 2006 at 10:57:01 PT

Runderwo
I prefer to consider myself panentheist, inasmuch as I don't limit God to merely this universe, but I do believe that all of us and everything are part of God, and we are in need of reconnecting within ourselves. Cannabis can facilitate this, and I also believe that it is essentially what both the Mosaic and Christian traditions started with. The burning bush, the sacred oil of anointment, and so forth.
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Comment #31 posted by runderwo on February 21, 2006 at 10:50:41 PT

whig
I have to agree with you. I think there are just two different types of people here. I never felt anything like "God" when pressured/forced into going to church. The closest I have ever come to experiencing the presence of a greater power is through the use of psychedelic drugs including cannabis. It is not that the drug itself is the greater power to be worshiped like people misunderstand, it's that it connects you to a part of your mind that is not a part of your normal thought process, and you make connections and feel like you comprehend abstract structures that either confuse you or slip below your conscious radar normally.I think I may have a pantheist outlook because most of the time it is just a feeling that this power pervades everything and is connected to every thought and every action that people do. I used to be really antisocial (I still am to some extent) but after having this sort of revelation several times, I began to see value in interacting and cooperating with other people. I don't consider myself a religious person per se, but I have definitely been humbled over the years by these experiences, and I believe that receiving humility may be an essential value of it.
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Comment #30 posted by jose melendez on February 21, 2006 at 10:50:30 PT

sacramental
Battle for the MindA Physiology of Conversion and Brain-Washingby William SargantBaltimore, Maryland and Hammondsworth, England: Penguin 
Books, 1961http://cscs.umich.edu/~crshalizi/reviews/battle-for-the-mind/
Battle for the Mind
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Comment #29 posted by b4daylight on February 21, 2006 at 10:33:26 PT

there
"The government did not even submit evidence addressing the international consequences of granting an exemption for the (church)," Roberts wrote.
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Comment #28 posted by b4daylight on February 21, 2006 at 10:30:46 PT

Aoliukydwe

Comment #21 posted by Had Enough on February 21, 2006 at 09:59:50 PThe made the statement how he Bush hadnot provided any evidence in the case.Sounds like Bush is wasting more court space.I would like to know how many court hours Bush & gov. has wasted?

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Comment #27 posted by Had Enough on February 21, 2006 at 10:24:21 PT

Comment 24
Max. Itís not the system; itís people with saddened intents that control our system. They can do what they want, but in the end the system belongs to the people.Yes, this is a great nation. The greatest experiment in democracy man has ever attempted. Is it perfect? No. But that is why the founding fathers set it up the way they did. The people hold the power. The ďpeople in power" need help and reminders, to help keep their minds right. We are watching history every day, every hour, every second.

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Comment #26 posted by whig on February 21, 2006 at 10:23:59 PT

Max
Yes, worship of cannabis ITSELF is neither necessary nor, in my opinion, proper.I know there there have been many misunderstandings, and it comes down to the fact that language is imprecise and what one person says may mean something different to another person.Cannabis is a sacrament to me, it brings me into communion with God in Christ. I think FoM objects when I refer to this as Eucharist because she may be using a different implication of this word, that Cannabis ITSELF is literally God, the Christ. Rather, I believe that when we consume Cannabis, it transubstantiates within OURSELVES.I don't want to overburden this thread with my religious thoughts, but I wanted to try to clarify a little, and perhaps we might continue over at Museman's place.
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Comment #25 posted by jared3602 on February 21, 2006 at 10:12:45 PT

????
"Carter is partial to his focus on child development and acknowledges marijuana's effect on unborn children, saying he worries about his current students' drug use and the futures of their children. He agrees with the information detailed in brochures circulated by Syracuse University Health Services, which describes the various heath concerns of the drug. Marijuana can cause abnormally light birth weights, as well corrupt the fetus respiratory and cardiac development, according to the pamphlet."If a pregnant woman smokes cannabis the smoke goes through her lungs and the THC and other cannabinoids then enters the blood stream. Now all of the harmfull aspects of smoking are in her lungs. So how could these problems then resurface in the fetus and cause respiratory problems? I am the only one out there that sees this flawed arugment. In every study I have seen and read they allways talk about the possitive affects of THC and the other cannabinoids. The only negitive thing I find is with the smoking of it.When I first started reading this article i though hey this is some good press. But after further reading I see it is just filled with misconseptions and furthing the lies.I completely agree with you Toker. In fact my dad is very impressed with my lung power when I use it to restart the fire. Someone should send them the study that shows cannabis expands the blood vessels in the lungs while tobacco constricts them.
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Comment #24 posted by Max Flowers on February 21, 2006 at 10:08:31 PT

For those willing to consider it
Keep in mind that won't be necessary to claim that cannabis itself is your "God", or is the whole basis for your religion or anything like that---all you will have to claim is that cannabis is a sincere part of your religious practice. So, if smoking cannabis gets you feeling closer to YOUR God (e.g. Jesus Christ, Great Spirit, Buddha-mind, or whatever, or whatever combination---it's as unique as your own soul) in a spiritual sense, you are there.I have already been there for a long time, but to have the Supreme Court agreeing with me, and under the Bush administration, is almost too much for my mind to handle at the moment!! Now I have to totally rethink my bad attitude about this nation...
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Comment #23 posted by whig on February 21, 2006 at 10:03:06 PT

Had Enough
Confession: I literally thanked God for John Roberts when he was confirmed. I didn't like his record going into the hearings, but when I saw and heard him speak, I said, there is a good man.
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Comment #22 posted by whig on February 21, 2006 at 10:02:07 PT

Max
Well, this was an interlocutory appeal, because UDV had won a preliminary injunction at the lower court level. So the case continues, but the burden is now FIRMLY on the government, and the injunction is UPHELD until and unless that burden is overcome at a later time.But the bar has been set almost impossibly high, because for the government to overcome the burden they'd have to (per the SCOTUS reasoning) distinguish a compelling state interest which applies to Ayahuasca and NOT to Peyote, because Peyote is expressly protected for religious purposes per RFRA.In the meantime, the decision of the Supreme Court binds ALL lower courts, not just the one which issued the injunction in this case.
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Comment #21 posted by Had Enough on February 21, 2006 at 09:59:50 PT

Judge Roberts
Max is on to something here along the lines of the Supreme Court ruling. When Roberts was appointed I asked a lot of people who were up on current politics if this guy was going to be the right appointment. To my surprise most people thought he would be okay. I had reservations, but now my thoughts have changed, looks like he might lead the Supreme Court "back to where it once belonged". He has the opportunity anyway. Hope he does.I believe this will be a precedent setting ruling for things to come.

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Comment #20 posted by whig on February 21, 2006 at 09:58:04 PT

FoM
THC Ministry isn't my church.
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Comment #19 posted by FoM on February 21, 2006 at 09:57:28 PT

Whig
If people want to risk challenging the courts using cannabis as a religious issue I say more power to them. I won't because it is against my faith. I do believe there are web sites that promote it though like the THC Ministry. I have never really read it since I am not interested.
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Comment #18 posted by Max Flowers on February 21, 2006 at 09:56:47 PT

whig
At the and of the article it said this:The justices sent the case back to a federal appeals court, which could consider more evidence.Should we worry about that? Naturally the administration will have a comeback... but I would think it would have to be better than what they have already put forward, which wasn't very good (obviously).
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Comment #17 posted by whig on February 21, 2006 at 09:52:59 PT

Max
"Whig is right, that is NOT off-topic at all, it is extremely relevant to cannabis. Not directly, as in that this ruling makes cannabis legal per se (that will take another SC case to show), but indirectly in a very serious way... as in a massive stumbling block in US jurisprudence has been knocked down. I'm still trying to let this sink in... it is so big."It doesn't even require another SC case. All lower courts are BOUND by the precedent set in UDV. So if we have a SINCERE religious basis for the use of cannabis, then the presumption will be for our protection from interference.Moreover, the SUPREMACY clause of the US Constitution, which you and I discussed recently, means that the First Amendment and RFRA override STATE PROHIBITION LAWS too.If it gets to the Supreme Court again, it's because the GOVERNMENT appeals it there.This isn't a split decision. It's not ambiguous. It's 8-0, CJ presiding. Done and Done.
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Comment #16 posted by goneposthole on February 21, 2006 at 09:47:23 PT

nothin' new under the sun
1883: Hashish smoking parlors are open for business in every major American city. According to police estimates, in 1883 there are 500 such parlors in New York City alone.http://www.parascope.com/articles/0897/timeline.htm
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Comment #15 posted by Max Flowers on February 21, 2006 at 09:45:50 PT

Wow!!
Ayahuasca ruled off-limits for feds?? Man, that is HUGE! Especially given that it was ruled so by Justice Roberts, the golden man chosen by Bush, and even more so that it was unanimous!!Whig is right, that is NOT off-topic at all, it is extremely relevant to cannabis. Not directly, as in that this ruling makes cannabis legal per se (that will take another SC case to show), but indirectly in a very serious way... as in a massive stumbling block in US jurisprudence has been knocked down. I'm still trying to let this sink in... it is so big.This sends a quite serious message to the Bush administration and the DEA and all anti-drug forces: religious freedom is now totally dominant over the drug war in this country, as it should be and always was supposed to be, as per the US Constitution. Overreaching federal power has been set BACK! Back toward where it's supposed to be---OUT of the private lives of the people.Make no mistake FoM, this is a great day for our side, and bodes very well for the future of this Supreme Court, if they continue to show that kind of respect for our liberty and the Constitution.
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Comment #14 posted by Storm Crow on February 21, 2006 at 09:42:48 PT

Did anyone esle notice this?
"So far, NINE states including California, Oregon, Hawaii, Alaska, Washington, Maine, Colorado, Nevada and Vermont, Have produced laws..." I guess this guy forgot to check his facts! Oh well, it goes with the general level of his other "facts" in the article.
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Comment #13 posted by Toker00 on February 21, 2006 at 09:28:17 PT

Experts speaking with NO knowledge of the subject.
"Kids will use marijuana with a smile and wonder why they have breathing problems in 30 years," said Carter. "In turn, they'll be asking similar questions for their newborn children."Actually, thirty years later, I ask myself how much protection did I recieve by smoking cannabis along with cigarettes? My lung capacity is just fine. How much protection did I recieve by smoking cannabis along with drinking alcohol? My mind seems to be much sharper than my friends who only smoked cigarettes and/or only drank alcohol. And, by replacing both cigarettes and alcohol with cannabis only, for pretty close to 15 years now, (with very few relapses) how much protection will I recieve from the noxious chemicals that are clouding our atmosphere? Try rationalizing with an alcoholic about the damages done by the drug war. They won't have any clue. Try telling a cigarette only smoker that cannabis could protect their lungs from the toxins in tobacco. They almost get angry before blurting out "I'd rather be dieing of lung cancer than be put in jail for smoking pot!" Or something to that affect. Two very LARGE groups of people who could definately benefit from cannabis therapy."The origins of marijuana can be traced to China, around 6,000 B.C. The Chinese farmers grew cannabis seeds and cultivated the crop for profit. Today, cannabis serves two very distinct purposes: medicinal use and the pastime of just getting high."This boldface lie angrifies me. "Medical use" and "just getting high". Because we are not allowed to grow the plant for ANY purpose the Chinese did 6,000 years ago! (And are still growing it today, I might add) Today cannabis is being cultivated for many uses, just not here in the good ole' USA. The most people who would benefit today, from cannabis cultivation, are the sick and the poor. The only people who would not benefit from it would be the Corporate CEO'S who bribe our politicians to keep it illegal, and competition out of the way. Sure they care about us. Sure they do.Wage peace on war. END CANNABIS PROHIBITION NOW!
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Comment #12 posted by FoM on February 21, 2006 at 09:26:08 PT

Whig
We is not everyone. That's a good correction.
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Comment #11 posted by whig on February 21, 2006 at 09:20:03 PT

FoM
When I say WE, I suppose I should more carefully qualify, because WE is not Everyone.You don't have to subscribe to the faith that some of us have in the sacramental role of Cannabis.Cannabis has not been legalized for leisure. (I was going to say recreation, but that can also be read Re-Creation, which brings it back into the ambit of the Peace Church concept.) But can you at least recognize and be happy for the fact that a SINCERE religious belief in the sacramental use of cannabis has been effectively approved, UNANIMOUSLY.
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Comment #10 posted by whig on February 21, 2006 at 09:16:19 PT

FoM: 1961!
They claim (correctly) ancient roots.So do we.
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Comment #9 posted by FoM on February 21, 2006 at 09:16:10 PT

Whig
I am not into any type of cannabis church. 
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Comment #8 posted by whig on February 21, 2006 at 09:15:19 PT

UDV
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UDVClaiming roots as far back as the 10th century BC, members feel the movement then lay dormant before reappearing in Incan Peru in the 4th and 5th centuries BC. UDV as it is known today however was "re-created" on July 22, 1961 in Porto Velho, RondŰnia, Brazil by the rubber-tapper Josť Gabriel da Costa (now known as Mestre Gabriel).
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Comment #7 posted by FoM on February 21, 2006 at 09:15:15 PT

Founded in The 10th Century BC
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uni%C3%A3o_do_Vegetal
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Comment #6 posted by whig on February 21, 2006 at 09:13:58 PT

FoM
It is OLD in the same sense that OURS is.
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Comment #5 posted by FoM on February 21, 2006 at 09:06:52 PT

Whig
I am happy for this church. As far as I know it is a very old and established church. I am trying to find out the date it was started. I remember them talking on the news when this surfaced last year and they said what can they say because it is such an old religion. 
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Comment #4 posted by whig on February 21, 2006 at 09:05:10 PT

How plainly can I say this?
CANNABIS IS LEGAL TODAY.
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Comment #3 posted by whig on February 21, 2006 at 09:02:21 PT

PDF of Decision
By CJ ROBERTS!http://tinyurl.com/mdwzb
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Comment #2 posted by whig on February 21, 2006 at 09:00:38 PT

Not OT
That was the Big One.Facial Challenge.Success.Just because the PARTICULAR subject of prohibition in that case was DMT, does not mean that ANY COURT can set aside this decision when the subject of prohibition is Cannabis.
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Comment #1 posted by FoM on February 21, 2006 at 08:51:48 PT

Off Topic But Interesting
Supreme Court Sides with Church in Dispute Over Hallucinogenic Tea***By Gina Holland, The Associated PressFebruary 21, 2006WASHINGTON ó The Supreme Court ruled unanimously today that a small congregation in New Mexico may use hallucinogenic tea as part of a four-hour ritual intended to connect with God. Justices, in their first religious freedom decision under Chief Justice John Roberts, moved decisively to keep the government out of a church's religious practice. Federal drug agents should have been barred from confiscating the hoasca tea of the Brazil-based church, Roberts wrote in the decision. The tea, which contains an illegal drug known as DMT, is considered sacred to members of O Centro Espirita Beneficiente Uniao do Vegetal, which has a blend of Christian beliefs and South American traditions. Members believe they can understand God only by drinking the tea, which is consumed twice a month at four-hour ceremonies. New Justice Samuel Alito did not take part in the case, which was argued last fall before Justice Sandra Day O'Connor before her retirement. Alito was on the bench for the first time on Tuesday. Roberts said that the Bush administration had not met its burden under a federal religious freedom law to show that it could ban "the sect's sincere religious practice." The chief justice had also been skeptical of the government's position in the case last fall, suggesting that the administration was demanding too much, a "zero tolerance approach." The Bush administration had argued that the drug in the tea not only violates a federal narcotics law, but a treaty in which the United States promised to block the importation of drugs including dimethyltryptamine, also known as DMT.Copyright: 2006 The Seattle Times Companyhttp://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/nationworld/2002819478_webtea21.html
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