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  Drugs and The Nation

Posted by CN Staff on November 04, 2004 at 11:49:30 PT
By Steven Wishnia, AlterNet 
Source: AlterNet  

In an election whose outcome was determined by militaristic, theocratic culture warriors, medical marijuana in Montana was one of the few bright spots.Even as 59 percent of the state's voters were going for George W. Bush and two-thirds opting to ban gay marriage, Montanans were approving Initiative 148, which would allow medical marijuana use by patients with a doctor's recommendation, by a 62%-38% margin.
Two further-reaching state drug initiatives lost. Alaskans rejected a proposal to legalize marijuana under regulations similar to alcohol, by a 57%-43% margin, and Oregon defeated a measure to expand the state's medical-marijuana law by 58-42. The number of people voting against the Oregon initiative – which would have set up state-licensed medical-herb dispensaries, so patients could obtain a legal supply – almost exactly matched the number who voted to ban gay marriage.Three local initiatives won. Oakland, California voted to make adult cannabis offenses the lowest priority for the city's police. In Ann Arbor, Michigan, where pot possession already carries only a $25 fine, voters approved an initiative to legalize medical use and reduce the penalty for third-offense possession or sale to a $100 fine. (Detroit voters passed a medical-marijuana measure in August.)Another college town, Columbia, Missouri, enacted two pot proposals, one to legalize medical use and one to decriminalize possession of up to 35 grams. The decrim measure will reduce the penalty to a $250 fine and require police and prosecutors to take pot-possession cases to municipal courts, where it will be a minor violation, instead of to state courts, where it remains a criminal offense.The moral: There is still substantial support for liberalizing the nation's drug laws, but proposals that push drug-law reform too far or too fast are risky, and support is strongest in urban and countercultural enclaves.Paul Befumo of the Montana Medical Marijuana Policy Project says the initiative there succeeded because it was a libertarian, common-sense issue."The idea that medical decisions should be between a person and their doctor really resonated with Montanans," he explains. "We made our case." People who have had relatives with serious illnesses, he adds, "really get it."The main arguments opponents raised were that it would send a bad message to children about drugs and that separating medical and recreational marijuana would be a law-enforcement nightmare.The Oregon initiative's biggest problem was it was underfunded, says John Sajo of Voter Power in Portland: They had a budget of $600,000 to reach about 1.7 million voters. "I think that if we had three or four million we would have won."The initiative, intended to help Oregon's 15,000 registered medical-marijuana users get a legitimate supply, was also far-reaching. It would have let users growing outdoors have one 6-pound crop a year, given free cannabis to indigent patients, and allowed naturopaths and nurse-practitioners to recommend medical marijuana.That, says Sajo, opened the initiative up to "lying and distorting" by opponents, who called it "legalization in disguise" and said it would make the state a haven for drug dealers. Bill O'Reilly on Fox News claimed the measure would let shamans from the Amazon set up shop in Oregon. Some legalization supporters also opposed the initiative on the grounds that it would get the state too involved with marijuana patients.If cannabis-legalization advocates have to portray responsible drug use in order to succeed, prohibitionist propaganda remains extremely potent when it collides, even marginally, with reality. In the 1930s, Harry Anslinger made Victor Licata, a Florida pothead who killed his family with an axe, his poster boy for marijuana prohibition – and the Alaska initiative campaign, which emphasized alcohol-style regulation, was damaged by an eerily similar murder case.On Oct. 21, 16-year-old Colin Cotting of Anchorage was arrested and charged with beating his stepmother to death and stuffing her body in a freezer after she confronted him about being high. Police said Cotting told them he was "too stoned" to remember much about what happened. Nevada's 2002 legalization initiative failed under similar circumstances; two months before the election, the managing editor of the Las Vegas Sun was killed when a stoned driver rear-ended her car at a red light.The Alaska initiative still got a respectable 43 percent of the vote, and marijuana possession remains legal there under state Supreme Court decisions from 1975 and last August. Gov. Frank Murkowski and Alaska's attorney general will now probably try to enact a cannabis ban that doesn't violate the state's constitutional right to privacy, says David Finkelstein, a former state legislator who headed the initiative campaign. To do this, he says, they will have to prove that marijuana is more of a danger than the court said it was.Paul Armentano of NORML suggests that activists should turn to doing local initiatives, which are easier to organize, cost less, and can be done on friendlier turf. Oakland definitely fits that last criterion; the city's cluster of medical-cannabis dispensaries has been nicknamed "Oaksterdam.""We didn't have to do a lot of work," says Judy Appel of the Oakland Civil Liberties Alliance. "The people of Oakland support this." With endorsements from Rep. Barbara Lee and state Senate Majority Leader Don Perata, Measure Z won with 64 percent of the vote. It remains to be seen whether the city police will not bother pot-smokers, but the measure sets up an advisory board to establish guidelines. Local initiatives, adds Appel, are a crucial model for alternatives to the war on drugs.Columbia, home to the University of Missouri and two other colleges, is also culturally sympathetic territory. It backed pot decriminalization by a 61-39 margin, and also voted overwhelmingly to require the city government to start using alternative energy sources for electrical power. A similar decrim measure lost in a special election last year, but in a general election, says Dan Viets of Missouri NORML, "we didn't have to get people out, we just had to persuade them."A key issue, he adds, was that moving cannabis cases to municipal court will protect students from losing their financial aid under the federal Higher Education Act, which denies college funds to people with drug convictions. The initiative also benefited from a 70 percent increase in the number of registered voters between 18 and 24 in the last two years.Bruce Mirken of the Marijuana Policy Project, which financed much of the Alaska, Oregon and Montana campaigns, sees a bright spot in Vermont, where a strong grassroots campaign helped defeat the three "most hardcore opponents" of medical marijuana in the state legislature.Still, drug-policy reformers now have to face another four years under a president whose political base is among puritanical cultural warriors. When Bush took office in 2001, many in the movement, at least among those who hadn't lived in Texas while he was governor, expressed hope that he would approach drug issues as a "compassionate conservative," or better yet, reveal a libertarian streak and pull a "Nixon goes to China."That proved to be severely wishful thinking. Bush made medical marijuana a top law-enforcement priority, sending SWAT teams to jail the Californians who dared defy Schedule I of the Controlled Substances Act and flooding the airwaves with ad campaigns conjuring the specter of pot-smokers financing terrorists and stoned teenagers accidentally shooting their best friends. ("Hey man, it's loaded! "Kewl, dude!") The Bush campaign advocates increasing drug-testing of high-school students, federal drug czar John Walters' pet cause. (Meanwhile, John Kerry offered extremely muted, tepid support for medical marijuana.)Mirken tries to remain optimistic, saying that if Bush wants history to see him as "a uniter, not a divider," medical marijuana would be a good place to start, and the Montana results indicate it wouldn't hurt him with his base. On the other hand, he says, "there's absolutely no indication they plan to change. They can make life very miserable for a lot of sick people. Patients and their supporters may have to hunker down for a very rough four years.""Culture war is not our biggest problem," says John Sajo. "I think we could legalize marijuana if our constituents actually made up a movement." The biggest problem, he believes, is the "complacency and apathy" of the nation's tokers. The decriminalization movement is now funded largely by a handful of wealthy benefactors, because "the average pot-smoker doesn't have the consciousness that they have to pay for it," he says. "If every pot-smoker donated half of what they spent on marijuana, we'd have a war chest in the billions." Steven Wishnia is the author of “The Cannabis Companion” (The Running Press), and a contributor to “Under the Influence: The Disinformation Guide to Drugs.”Source: AlterNet (US)Author: Steven Wishnia, AlterNetPublished:  November 4, 2004Copyright: 2004 Independent Media InstituteContact: letters alternet.org Website: http://www.alternet.org/DL: http://alternet.org/story/20408/Related Articles:Vote Changes Little About City Pot Policyhttp://cannabisnews.com/news/thread19770.shtmlA2 Voters Pass Initiative To Legalize MMJhttp://cannabisnews.com/news/thread19766.shtmlMedical Marijuana Approved http://cannabisnews.com/news/thread19761.shtmlMarijuana Measures Pass Handily http://cannabisnews.com/news/thread19765.shtmlVoters Overwhelmingly Reject Marijuana http://cannabisnews.com/news/thread19764.shtml 

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Comment #74 posted by afterburner on November 21, 2004 at 04:58:53 PT
More Demonization
Bus driver 'smoked cannabis' ahead of fatal crash http://news.scotsman.com/scotland.cfm?id=1337122004Sounds a little too familiar:{If cannabis-legalization advocates have to portray responsible drug use in order to succeed, prohibitionist propaganda remains extremely potent when it collides, even marginally, with reality. In the 1930s, Harry Anslinger made Victor Licata, a Florida pothead who killed his family with an axe, his poster boy for marijuana prohibition – and the Alaska initiative campaign, which emphasized alcohol-style regulation, was damaged by an eerily similar murder case.{On Oct. 21, 16-year-old Colin Cotting of Anchorage was arrested and charged with beating his stepmother to death and stuffing her body in a freezer after she confronted him about being high. Police said Cotting told them he was "too stoned" to remember much about what happened. Nevada's 2002 legalization initiative failed under similar circumstances; two months before the election, the managing editor of the Las Vegas Sun was killed when a stoned driver rear-ended her car at a red light.} --Drugs and The Nation http://www.cannabisnews.com/news/19/thread19772.shtml
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Comment #73 posted by FoM on November 06, 2004 at 17:03:39 PT

Dankhank
You're welcome. I really do have a problem remembering bad times. Years ago I could think of something that upset me and I couldn't turn it off. It was horrible. Worrying and fretting all the time mentally hurt me. Pop a pill or two and it passed for awhile. Now that I have no pills to stop the pain I've learned to put bad memories out of my mind. Today I started the day with Woodstock, Peace, Love and Music DVD then Do You Remember Jim Croce and now we are watching Neil Young's Acoustic performance called Silver and Gold. Right now Neil is singing Long May You Run and it really is soothing. Maybe we will be able to meet someday. Maybe we could all have a nice time here at our place. It's possible. Have a nice weekend.
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Comment #72 posted by Dankhank on November 06, 2004 at 16:53:07 PT

Nuff Said ...
case closed, I shall try mightily to supress the memory of a curious matter.Thanks for spending your valuable time with two posts.I will task you no more for this and again thank you for patience that I wish to emulate someday.
Hemp N Stuff
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Comment #71 posted by FoM on November 06, 2004 at 12:57:10 PT

DankHank
I want to mention that I honestly don't remember much about that time. I put bad memories out of my mind. No one ever complained about you I can remember that much. Please don't think it was personal because it really wasn't. It was when CNews was going thru bad growing pains. 
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Comment #70 posted by FoM on November 06, 2004 at 12:29:30 PT

DankHank
There aren't any higher ups with me. We are it. No it was someone who was a regular poster from a long time ago that commented here and was angry about a few things. 
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Comment #69 posted by Dankhank on November 06, 2004 at 12:18:19 PT:

complaints
FoM, I toyed with this reply last night, demurred and then today said, "I must."It appears that the complainant must have been higher up on the activist food-chain than I.I know you are too refined to mention any names here, feel free to send me a personal email if you choose. I suspect I may know who it is, but for now can only surmise. Here's an OK, no prob in advance if you choose not to address this note.Peace to all who see the Truth..................
Truth
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Comment #68 posted by FoM on November 06, 2004 at 09:50:31 PT

Patrick
I understand being discouraged. This has been very hard on all of us. We have the Supreme Court case being addressed on November 29th. That is something to look forward to. If we could get together it would be fine. They just don't bother people way out here where we live. I don't go to parties but people have them in the summer with large numbers and they aren't ever hassled. We have plenty of room for campers and tents so it is possible if people really want to get together. 
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Comment #67 posted by Max Flowers on November 06, 2004 at 09:42:42 PT

Patrick
You wrote: - Someone mentioned a cannabis news get-together like a reunion. It would be something I would actually consider attending. My only concern is that if we were all in the same place at once, big brother would swoop down and nab us so perhaps if an opportunity to “get together” were to happen we could meet in Vancouver or Amsterdam where we could meet in relative peace. - I urge you not to think that way, as it's just what they want and besides, there are no crimes being committed on Cannabis News, unless it is now a crime to write your comments and express your opinions. If that is a crime, I'm guilty and the USA is now a gulag state... oops wait a minute...
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Comment #66 posted by Patrick on November 06, 2004 at 09:25:25 PT

Good Morning FoM
I know I don’t post with the same fervor I did a couple years ago. As I mentioned then, I am somewhat worn out as the news seems to remain the same – we are still a persecuted lot for being pro-cannabis. I know that we have made gains here and there but overall we are still stuck with the Schedule 1 lies. The country is split down the middle when it comes to electing a president but not, I believe, over everything else which is kind of promising. The defeated initiatives garnered something like 40% of the vote. That is very promising news indeed. Ashcroft offering to resign is perhaps some of the best news I have heard lately!I just wanted you to know that I still read your site everyday even though I don’t post much. It is encouraging to hear you have grown this to nearly 200k hits a day. Wow! Clapping and cheering for you over here.Someone mentioned a cannabis news get-together like a reunion. It would be something I would actually consider attending. My only concern is that if we were all in the same place at once, big brother would swoop down and nab us so perhaps if an opportunity to “get together” were to happen we could meet in Vancouver or Amsterdam where we could meet in relative peace. It’s a thought anyway that makes me smile.Regarding Kerry, I don’t think he could have done much with Congress in republican hands. You are somewhat right about the president. The main power the President really has is in my view is the power to set the nations direction and his veto powers. I guess you could say he has the power of persuasion too. Like E.F. Hutton, when he speaks people will listen. What they do after what they hear him say is an entirely different matter. We are living in strange times and a nation this divisive is not a healthy nation in my humble opinion. 
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Comment #65 posted by FoM on November 06, 2004 at 09:07:56 PT

Patrick
I think I have that book and put it away. I'm not sure where I put it or I'd check. Herbal medicine is a good thing. I just turned 57 and don't wake up in the morning and take 5 or more different pills to get going. I took some American Ginseng, St. John's Wort and Gota Kola. I haven't taken these herbs for a long time but because of the stress of elections I thought I should use them for awhile again. I feel fine. I bet I wouldn't feel fine if I was all loaded up with drugs.
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Comment #64 posted by FoM on November 06, 2004 at 08:57:56 PT

Just A Saturday Profound Revelation
I was thinking about what power a president really has and it really isn't much. John Kerry would not have been as good as his potential would have allowed because he would have been so stifled. Someone like John Kerry has so much to give and share and really make an impact so what could he do to leave a great legacy like he did as a Vietnam War protester? John Kerry could lead anti war protests against Iraq and many people would listen. Just a thought.
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Comment #63 posted by Patrick on November 06, 2004 at 08:48:38 PT

"These people use herbs, too!"
Hope what a great comment! It made me mentally picture an anti in shock as he read the morning newspaper over breakfast while asking the waitress for more extra cilantro on his eggs ranchero! They use herbs too! LOL

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Comment #62 posted by FoM on November 06, 2004 at 08:24:26 PT

Good Morning Everyone
So far no news but I wanted to tell you how I feel now a few days after losing the election. We didn't lose really. We are still here. We haven't changed the world has. No one can take our freedom or our sense of well being unless we let them. About 50,000,000 people voted against Bush and that was almost half of all those who voted. I woke up this morning and thought there is nothing on the news that interests me now so what should I do. I thought and thought and decided to watch Wood Stock 3 Days of Peace & Music The Director's Cut. Maybe they hate us because we thumb our noses at the establishment and make our own way. That's what we are. We're are a great bunch of people and deserve respect. Maybe because we know where this administration is going we will rally and show the world we all aren't just followers like the people did at Wood Stock way back in 69. There is such a thing as being at peace in the midst of conflict and hopefully we'll find that peace again. That's all! 
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Comment #61 posted by Hope on November 06, 2004 at 08:24:17 PT

something just occurred to me
If any antis happened to be reading this thread, what they would likely feel and think.They shrink back in horror and shudder inwardly, "These people use herbs, too!"We are part of something they don't understand and for some ungodly reason, despise.
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Comment #60 posted by Patrick on November 06, 2004 at 08:18:05 PT

breeze on the subject of herbs
The Chinese have the most experience in this area than any other culture I am aware of.There are countless websites on the subject and while I don't have a copy the following book, it is highly regarded among herbalists and acupuncturists...Chinese Herbal Medicine: Materia Medica
ISBN: 0939616157 I have a copy of Cunninghams Encyclopedia of Magical Herbs that I bought almost 20 years ago. It's more of an entertainment read than a practical book on herbs but it does illustrate over 400 herbs and describes the "magical properties" associated with the herb. It's sorta like the astrology or occult powers/properties associated with plant life.
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Comment #59 posted by Hope on November 06, 2004 at 07:30:24 PT

Herbs, books, wild edibles
Breeze, all my books about herbs and natural eating and living, including Back to Eden, a very old book, came from health food stores. 
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Comment #58 posted by afterburner on November 06, 2004 at 02:23:15 PT

breeze on herbs and sacred herbs
One great herbal resource is Back to Eden by Jethro Kloss. Look for it at used bookstores, rummage sales, yard sales. I'm on my second copy. Check out the following informational reference on-line:A Modern Herbal Home Page http://www.botanical.com/botanical/mgmh/mgmh.htmlIf you're intensely interested, consider becoming an herbalist:- Master Herbalist Distance Learning Program- M.H. http://www.heartofherbs.com/master.aspI'm looking forward to the day when cannabis is once again included in the materia medicas and pharmacopoeias.
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Comment #57 posted by breeze on November 05, 2004 at 23:04:34 PT

Tired? Lack of energy? Tense & Nervous?
All the same reason TO be tired, tense and nervous. 
You all are true Americans, you fight for truth and justice, and what you get is basically a kick in the teeth.
But KNOW that you are inspiration to others, by sharing your knowledge and wisdom with those who would NOT find this information otherwise.To have a central meeting place- to discuss this topic in all of its meaning and variety, by some of the most dedicated people in the nation is truly a thing to be proud of.I am quite positive that had each one of you been born two centuries ago, you would have all been patriots in a different, but comparably same kind of war- battles for freedom.Its not easy being an activist, or even being outspoken. You each hold yourself to a higher standard than most, and FOM is certainly a model for the masses: she works seemingly endless hours- I have read posts she took the time to type in in the early morning, and then continue through the day- often late into the night. I have been witness to her running commentary often times 7 days a week, a true hero of freedom there could be none more.But also are the people here who post, without falter, if not once a day- then every other day - or week. This still resonates the purpose and meaning behind the work done here. To some it may seem trivial- because they do not understand the passion behind the drive.I have hopes that other orginizations would garner this much dedication- this volume of information, this shining example of what the true gift the first ammendment beholds- and persue this objective with the passion that each of you hold.We have had differences among us. Misunderstandings at times, GOOD!, I say- it means were thinking. We are not professional writers, or at least that majority of us are not- but we could be- if we could each tell our story- it would indeed sound remarkably the same. With a thousand different voices we resonate- eventually, we will be heard- but it some times takes effort- word of mouth, or posting to other websites, it seems to be effective.The first web page I open, and then check throughout the rest of the day is Cannabisnews.comI would like to add one thing about the subject line I addressed this topic with though. I watched a program about an entirely different subject tonight, about SEX. It seems that sex has its own benefit- you can actually gain energy from pleasure- but even more interesting, was the discussion about natural HERBS that stimulate the sex drive in both men and women. Its not a chemical like viagra, it is an over the counter HERB!!!When the scientist who compunded the ingredients had a doctor who is also a plant geneticist(sp)- the docotr agreed that these herbs would indeed have a great influence over the sex drive. BUT!!! Pharmaceutical companies refuse to embrace the use of HERBS as something they will push to the public to influence the sex drive naturally, because - "Big pharmaceutical companies cannot put a patent on HERBS- they grow naturally, and thus, there will not be a patent".It hit me immediately- they cannot put a patent on something that is merely grown, cut, dried and then consumed. In fact, they will go to great lengths to discredit such a plant, because they cannot have exclusive rights to its use, distribution, or sale. If they cannot make a profit on something, they immediately push it out of the public's knowledge base- and try to discredit its use altogether in favor of a chemical that does the same thing- but with possible minor/major side effects.It is my hope to eventually learn to cure all ailments with strictly herbs and spices- and by pass the pharmaceutical companies altogether. Any body have any ideas of a book thats like this? I would appreciate a reccomendation. It seems that this would be considered an ancient art- long past, and forgotten. Thanks!!
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Comment #56 posted by FoM on November 05, 2004 at 17:20:58 PT

global_warming 
Thank you. Yes I am getting tired. I'm not tired of doing the news or sharing thoughts with all of you but tired none the same. This election and the anger about who should be our president has been hard to take. We know now who we will have and we all also know where he will take our country. I will get some hope back after Bush starts showing his colors and everyone will see then. I am over feeling sad for Kerry because Kerry is better off not being president. War is hard for me to handle because I see no purpose in killing people. I see parents with no children and children with no parents. I see hunger and disease and early death because of extreme poverty in the world. I am dedicated to do CNews until for some reason my health would make me stop. Thanks for caring.
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Comment #55 posted by global_warming on November 05, 2004 at 17:08:41 PT

To FOM
Are you getting tired? Though I have never seen you with my eyes, I have seen you with my heart and my souls eyes, you are a beautiful lady, your words have been a comfort to me,and to sa many other people,I hope that I will continue to read your words and thoughts, this place you have nurtured has brought so many good people together, as with all germinal processes, the birth of a child is a miracle.For me, Cannabis, that lowly "marijuana", not sure where this name came from, sounds Mexican, I prefer "KANEH-BOSM", from the ancient "THEN THE LORD SAID TO MOSES, "TAKE THE FOLLOWING FINE SPICES: 500 SHEKELS OF LIQUID MYRRH, HALF AS MUCH OF FRAGRANT CINNAMON, 250 SHEKELS OF KANNABOSM, 500 SHEKELS OF CASSIA - ALL ACCORDING TO THE SANCTUARY SHEKEL - AND A HIND OF OLIVE OIL. MAKE THESE INTO MAKE THESE INTO A SACRED ANNOITING OIL, A FRAGRANT BLEND, THE WORK OF A PERFUMER. IT WILL BE THE SACRED ANNOITING OIL."From ancient times, man, has been aware and respectful of the great mysteries, and man has been thankful, that the universe has given birth to mankind, that child that could honor and graciously bow towards the unknowns.Though much of history has recorded such hatred and bloodshed, there is as much testimony of mans gentleness, mans need for tenderness, mans acts of charity, mans reaching out to help, mans ability to overcome oppression, it is these noble acts that insure mans salvation, and in these times of greatest darkness and spiritual denial, the greatest birthing is occurring,for there will be hope, and the son of man will triumph, and the new generations will gather to watch the the sun rise on a new world, a world that is filled with love, a world that can truly reach for the stars, a world that stand beside the angels, and minister to god.Though I know this writing is off-topic,of which I apologize up front, and I must apologize for my frequent use of certain words, that have been offensive, humbly, I resign my fate to the greater plan, as I assimilate into the lesser mulch, be it known, that I surrender, for my mortal flesh is given to the world, and the doctors and experts may analyze,  the dirt that was once me.gw
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Comment #54 posted by FoM on November 05, 2004 at 16:51:31 PT

Off Topic But Interesting
Maybe moving to Montana to raise up something other then dental floss would work now.Moving to Canada, Eh?:Excerpt:3) Do you like to smoke pot? Circle one: yes / no / only for medicinal reasons / only with John Ashcroft(Judges in at least three provinces have now decriminalized marijuana possession and the federal government is considering decriminalizing it in small quantities. We are advised that the feds also grow great masses of it in large underground caverns and may soon expand the use of these caverns as shelters to which the entire country would retreat in the event of a terrorist attack or to spur mass-munchies in case of a national Doritos glut. And only in Canada would you find marijuana advocates genuinely arguing that people actually drive better stoned.) http://slate.msn.com/id/2109300/
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Comment #53 posted by goneposthole on November 05, 2004 at 16:18:26 PT

MAPP may be lobbying the wrong people
What would be wrong with talking to cannabis growers to make an effort to reduce the price of cannabis available on the black market?Maybe that is something they really should be doing. It would be a start. I would be able to contribute to that effort by way of my saving on the cost of cannabis bought at your local coffee house.Maybe MAPP could lobby the Drug Enforcement Administration to reduce the amount of money spent chasing the poor cannabis user? Give those cats a break.That would be pursuing something worth their while.Please don't misinterpret my comments as criticism. While the idea is probably quite absurd, it really isn't out of the realm of possibility.I'm just throwing it out there. Don't laugh... well, go ahead.I bought silver in 1981 for eight dollars per ounce. It was $7.13 per ounce today. Don't buy too much, but do buy US minted coins at your local coin dealer. They're a bargain if you can buy 'junk' silver. There's plenty of it. Be sure to have physical possession of your silver.It isn't important to have physical possession of gold, and should be avoided to reduce any fear you might have of actually having it in your possession. If you want gold, obtain it through jewelry and watches that have gold content purchased at rummage sales and bargain places. Invest in a gold via the market mechanisms. I have no gold coins.The dollar is lot stronger than people realize. It buys a lot. I wish it could buy more cannabis for what I pay, though.Too bad the whole situation is as fubar-ed as it is.
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Comment #52 posted by FoM on November 05, 2004 at 16:02:28 PT

dongenero
Thank you. There is no school for someone like me to learn how to make decisions. I have to hope I make the right one. We broke a record the other day on CNews with just shy of 200,000 hits for one day. That means many people are reading even if they aren't commenting. I try to look at the safety of everyone who posts here and myself. I try to keep news to a minimum if it is just more of the same type news. I know people are busy and have other interests so I don't want people to have to search thru news to find one article that interests them. It really is hard to do but I really do try. Thanks again for understanding.
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Comment #51 posted by dongenero on November 05, 2004 at 15:40:29 PT

your call FoM
Keep running the site as you feel it should run.  You do a great job here. You're appointed for life...like a Supreme Court Justice. Run it with your heart, like you always do.We may be bitterly divided over song lyrics here but, hell, everyone is pissed about everything right now...unless they're a Fox news hound. 
Even they will be pissed soon enough when the other 50,000,000 of us get back on their case. Along with...ummm...the rest of the World.
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Comment #50 posted by FoM on November 05, 2004 at 15:26:08 PT

Dankhank
I never cared about lyrics being posted but someone really complained and I thought it should stop if it was upsetting this person that much. I at first tried to please everyone but now I know I can't. It's just impossible.
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Comment #49 posted by FoM on November 05, 2004 at 15:16:20 PT

Dankhank
I know but I am concerned now for my freedom. Maybe I shouldn't worry but times have changed and I do worry.
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Comment #48 posted by FoM on November 05, 2004 at 15:13:36 PT

Agog 
I know and it's ok. I don't want to go the way on other substances. I gave it a try years ago and harder or different drugs just didn't seem to be an interesting topic judging by the times those types of articles were accessed. Now I want to keep cannabisnews.com on cannabis because I know how bad it will be with an empowered Bush in office. I am the one who posts the news and I am easily trackable. I will defend cannabis but I have no interest in any other substance and never did. Map does news on all issues and I feel specializing in what I want to see accomplished should stay in my mind. I've had problems with people on drugs here. One person worshipped a person who was a killer and bragged about killing a person. I don't want that here. 
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Comment #47 posted by Dankhank on November 05, 2004 at 15:12:32 PT

My View
First I must say that this site is wonderful and has been for more than 5 years, FoM you must know the total time much like most retired soldiers do when asked... me... 22 years and 23 days. Most soldiers respond the same way. I say this to acknowledge your unbelievable strength to do this work. Thank You.This board is the best resource for those to learn truth not available in the mainstream media.This board has evolved over the years. It is truly designed for Cannabis issues, but discussions have regularly been done about other subjects as well.I remember being chided in much the same fashion for posting lyrics of a song that inspired me to picket the local Federal Building twice in response to the WAMM by myself.Now however lyrics to songs are occasionally put up, and it gets no critique. I said before, "FoM, I've seen you evolve with your site." You're a special lady.Cocaine is the concentrated form of a plant that is revered in South America by the natives much as we rever Cannabis. How lucky they must be to have two wonderful plants to use.Interesting that in Colombia possession of small quantities of either is not a crime. The Columbian government must feel that the harm done to the people is worse than the harm done to them by these plants. What does that say about the sheer stupid, venal position of OUR government?We saw a rash of stories here in the past about X. I don't remember being warned that prohibitionists would view those as an indication that we favored X. Granted some of it was in response to the RAVE Act, nevertheless we discussed and then went back to business ... Cannabis.We've discused Ritalin: the cocaine-like drug we give to millions of children. I'm sure noone thought we were for drugging children, in fact we seem to be avidly against that. Then, back to Cannabis.Some threads have gone on for tens of comments on some pretty diverse topics, but we always quickly get back to Cannabis.The LEAP stuff is about prohibition... more than just Cannabis... prohibition is why Cannabis is mixed up with other plants.I found out the other day that Morphine is used to improve breathing for many ill Americans. Are we in favor of unrestricted Morphine use? No. We favor truth and the seeking of knowledge, the gateway to Truth.We have many contributors here each with a perspective on how we get through this life. Noone has ALL the answers, we know this, and we still try to learn them.The 9/11 stuff is not Cannabis-related but I know many want to keep up with what's happenning and are glad we don't have to search for ourselves. This IS the site for Cannabis News... aptly named.The phrase: Off Topic, is used with great abandon here.Even so... we always return quickly to the business: Cannabis.May we ever do so.Thanks all for bringing knowledge to me.
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Comment #46 posted by Agog on November 05, 2004 at 15:06:06 PT

Plants and Drug War Rants
FOM - I initially mentioned the article because it provided what I thought was a great illustration of the futility of the Drug War. There was speculation as whether the mutation was deliberate genetic modification or just very observant selective breeding .... (by 3rd world peasant farmers, how dare they be so skilled at what they do)..sarcasm key off. I apologize if I started something that caused you discomfort.John Wayne - thank you for the info, what I know about that plant is what I wrote. You make a good point about the journalism.Max Flowers - I only used BC breeding for my rant because it is so often demonized by the feds and in the media... and obviously cited by people that are clueless about the plant, much less breeding it.... there are indeed fine farmers and breeders worldwide and here in CA.Kapt - to illustrate further what you said... there are commodity groups and parts that are available to DLA only from sources in China... we don't make them anymore and have LOST the manufacturing capability, I'm not just talking big steel either.All the Best to you and the rest of the Cnews familyAgog
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Comment #45 posted by FoM on November 05, 2004 at 14:28:25 PT

The GCW
Check out the picture that I copied from the board I post on besides here. Her driveway even cracked too from these maneuvers. I don't know if she was serious but she posted the specs on her house and what she wanted for it and said owner relocating. She added don't mind the noise it's only God moving the furniture around. She didn't realize how close she lived to this base when she bought the house years back.
In The Good Ole USA
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Comment #44 posted by FoM on November 05, 2004 at 12:44:23 PT

john wayne
Thank you for understanding. I do appreciate it.
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Comment #43 posted by FoM on November 05, 2004 at 12:43:11 PT

john wayne
I could be over reacting but I stand on how I feel. I do this site and want it to stay as it is and not drift off into other substances. I have lived long enough on this earth to feel I have a right to feel how I do. We live in times that are trying for many people and that's where I draw the line. 
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Comment #42 posted by john wayne on November 05, 2004 at 12:39:12 PT

FoM, I understand your concern, but
get in trouble for what, exactly? Discussion of an article about plants?  Could it be that your over-reacting just a bit, in much the same way that previous US generations did as they described cannabis as the "devil weed with roots in hell"?Actually I'm not interested in cocaine at all. But I am interested in the truth. Which appears to be a concern of us all here on this board, I'm pleased to say. I will respect your wish to discontinue discussion of the coca plant. My concern about drug war hype dressed up as hip journalism remains, however.
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Comment #41 posted by FoM on November 05, 2004 at 12:27:03 PT

john wayne
I am the one that could get in trouble. I care about cannabis issues. I will not risk my sense of security over what isn't a concern of mine. 
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Comment #40 posted by john wayne on November 05, 2004 at 12:24:11 PT

what does sensationalist hype
concerning drug plants have to do with us?Gee, I don't know. (scratches head)
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Comment #39 posted by FoM on November 05, 2004 at 12:23:10 PT

kaptinemo
So even making weapons etc. won't help the economy because they have been outsourced too if I'm reading you right.PS: I am so angry at the RR that I want to put them on a space ship and send them where they obviously want to go. I was raised a Christian but I don't believe it's right to make laws based on church beliefs. PS: They just asked on CNBC are we ready for a gold rush.
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Comment #38 posted by FoM on November 05, 2004 at 12:08:48 PT

kapt
I haven't read your whole comment yet but yes I live in a red state. I thought maybe moving to western pennsylvania might be an option. I'm just kidding but understand what you mean about red and blue states. The sad thing is the place where attacks occurred was in a blue state. 
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Comment #37 posted by FoM on November 05, 2004 at 12:04:40 PT

coca leaves
What does coca leaves have to do with us here? I don't want people that fight against us to think that we are interested in cocaine. We have enough problems finding acceptance with cannabis. I'm sure there must be a message board somewhere that talks about this topic comfortably. Thanks.
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Comment #36 posted by kaptinemo on November 05, 2004 at 12:02:11 PT:

Well (Scratching bald head) where do I begin?
First off, this idea of Red and Blue States is a fiction. A dangerous one. It ascribes certain attributes to the denizens of each...and those attributes cannot possibly be wholly accurate. Yes, many people in these areas think as the artificial stereotype says they do, but many don't. For example, how many cannabists live in Red States? (I do, BTW) How many Libertarians? (Jumping up-and-down, waving hands: "Me, me!") Greens? How many fundamentalist Christians live in Blue States? I don't know. All I DO know is I don't fit in anyone's box but the one I built for myself...and even that's subject to change - and I'll do the changing.But one thing stands out; the lower number of college educated people in any State, the lower the mean income. (That doesn't confer any special priviliges; we all know lots of supposedly college educated people who have a hard time balancing checkbooks, much less fix a car, or splint a broken bone, or sundry other important stuff.) So the more likely someone is to enter the military, because the jobs just aren't there at home.But with a draft? The military gets to pick and choose. With the Army getting the lion's share of the fresh meat. Well-to-do families might be able to stash their kids someplace safe long enough, but I doubt it. "No deferrments!" is the promise of the pols. And the poor ones? Their kids, as they always have, get sent to the meatgrinder. That won't change.As to the economy? Think about this: most of our electronics used by both the military and civilian sectors is FOREIGN PRODUCED. One little embargo and our war making capacity is crippled. Our fuel is imported from the very region the Bush Cabal is trying to colonize, and the natives are restless. They blow up the pipeline that was supposed to pay for the Iraq War (invade their country, steal their crude, and pay for the bullets we use to kill them with their oil; neat trick, huh? only it's not working out that way) every chance they get. The deficit we are experiencing right now is bleeding this country dry, and foreign banks won't lend any more. We're in big trouble, and it could get worse. If you start seeing a sharp rise in precious metals, it means the Big Shots are divesting their stocks and preparing to hole up in their private gated enclaves while the rest of us go to Hell.And as centralized as we are, with most people living in cities dependent upon oil for energy and fuel to transport food, it WOULD be Hell. And Winter is coming; remember how cold it got last 2 Winters? As the old saying goes, "No place is more than three missed meals away from a revolution." When folks realize that the food trucks aren't coming, they'll take matters into their own hands. IMHO, *this* is the REAL reason for the (ahem!) PATRIOT Act. To keep the lid on a restive population beginning to feel real hunger for the first time.If you want an idea of what it could be like, go rent "The Trigger Effect" http://movieweb.com/movies/synopsis.php?id=2220&ns=1I don't relish having to talk about this stuff...but this government has shown it is both callous and contemptuous of the average citizen, and cares not one whit about the very people it is supposed to serve. We gotta look after ourselves and each other.
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Comment #35 posted by john wayne on November 05, 2004 at 11:57:27 PT

the wired coca story: consume with caution
Agog, I saw the Wired story too, here's a URL to it:http://www.wired.com/wired/archive/12.11/columbia.html?tw=wn_tophead_6And here's the opening paragraph:"I've got 23 ziplock bags filled with coca leaves laid out on the rickety table in front of me. It's been seven hours since the leaves were picked, and they're already secreting the raw alkaloid that gives cocaine its kick."I lost interest right at this point, because the author clearly has no idea what he is talking about. Coca doesn't "secrete" alkaloids. Dried or fresh, coca leaves look like ordinary leaves. He seems to have it mixed up with cannabis, of which the active ingredient "glistens" in the resin on the outside of the plant.Also the alkaloids in coca do not "give cocaine its kick". Cocaine is one of a well-described family of alkaloids in coca along with a healthy dose of vitamins and minerals. I wouldn't doubt that there are clandestine breeding programs for coca underway. But let's not get snowed by cheap hype.
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Comment #34 posted by breeze on November 05, 2004 at 11:50:27 PT

I meant to include this...
My point was, to invest in only as much gold and silver as you can unload later- the important thing, is to invest in the things that can keep you alive for extended periods of time. If food becomes scarce, you can always use what you have preserved yourself later on, but don't expect to be able to buy things that are usually in grocery stores today- think along the lines of flour and vegetable oil. Think about dry beans instead of those in cans. If you don't know how to preserve or can food, learn how- it will be important should this situation occur, especially during the winter months.I found this to be very interesting- seems bush got more votes in Ohio than was actually cast...http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ap/20041105/ap_on_el_pr/voting_problems

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Comment #33 posted by FoM on November 05, 2004 at 11:46:33 PT

breeze
I know what you are saying. I'm glad people are aware of what is causing this to happen and I think many people are but not everyone. Getting raptured and no more pain on this earth is a driving factor for many in the extreme right. We had an expression years back that went like this. They are so heavenly minded that they are no earthly good. I bet others have heard that before too.
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Comment #32 posted by breeze on November 05, 2004 at 11:36:08 PT

Moral Majority-
I speak of this, from over 20 years of personal experience. 
The "moral Majority" so to speak, moves in often bizzare and strange transitions of thought. They spoke of a time coming when the depression would look like America in its glory days. My Mother was a good woman, and a devout Christian- but she also listened to every word that fell from any so called "man-o-god" as though it were defined truth. When she passed on, we had a room full of food that had to be thrown out- it was spoiled or outdated. She was only looking out for us, I know, but it was clear just how influential religion is- and how it can be as harmful as helpful. I am sure she thought I was going to be left behind, hehehe. I wasn't an easy child to tend too.I remember very , very clearly- preachers telling the audience to stock up on dry goods- and gold. Any precious metal will be worth more than the dollar- but especially gold. But the thing is, the only thing you can really trade it for will be food- and fuel. You will likely be given credit for future needs. The most important thing is to be able to grow your own food, or hunt- or have something to barter with. At the very LEAST get a book on edible wild plants.But these times aren't the same as when the depression was happening. People are definitely meaner, heartless, and colder. Our society has an attitude of every man, woman, and child for themself- expect to have to use weapons, if we reach any capacity comparable to the great depression.
But, see- this is the fear that was preached to me since I was a child- and it affected me. I watched as I saw people have hope, day after day- year after year- that Jesus was coming back to steal away all of the saved souls. And it was always "soon". Well, its been 2000 years and counting, and I also saw how some people were in such anticipation to see such horrible events, that many were praying for Jesus to return- I learned that when Jesus returns, its not going to be a pleasent event for those that are "LEFT BEHIND."- Not at all. The disturbing thing was, that people WANTED this tragic event to happen, for the "saved" it was good news,to the non-christian- it was going to be suffering, and being tattooed with a barcode so that one might be able to eat. The irony was that many people missed the lesson I THINK the messenger was trying to reveal- that to love people is the greatest thing, and to pray NOT for Jesus to return, but him to stay right where he is, as long as possible, is actually the most christian thing to do.But, still, to many people- for jesus to return is a powerful desire- they pray for it- and if they can increase the chances of his return- they will do so. In other words- Armageddon is to take place in a large expanse of wilderness properly called Megeddo- somewhere in the middle east. For years now, it has been reported by evangelicals that they have been stocking food, water and bibles in the caverns and caves near the site. This area is very large, and it is suitable for basically only one thing- a battleground. According to the bible, the armies of the world will meet here for one giant show down- so much blood is to be spilled here, that it will reach the bridle of a horse, just below the bit. Ah, so much for your lesson on what drives these people who are supposed to be for morality.Now- with the war in Iraq, we are sure to further along the events leading up to this time, in some people's mindset. We will basically have a hold in the area- assuring that our nation will be one of the large armies gathered at Meggdo. These people pray for this, because shortly before Armegeddon- jesus returns. Hence, the need for bush to be in the house, this is a part of the agenda- not all, but definitly an influence. Most of you probably have never met a fanatic religous person, but I know many. There are people who drink strichnine and handle poisonous snakes to prove their dedication to god not too far from where I live. These people are on the outskirts of extremism, but the people I know are equally as fanatical about their religion- they might not tempt fate, but their mindset is right there with it. As I said, they pray for the destruction that the return of jesus brings- and hell is a major instrument of their intimidation. Many christians that I know are actually "happy" that hell exists in their religion- sort of a retribution for those who have wronged them. Instead of feeling sorrow for their tortures, they feel pretty good that someone, somewhere is going to suffer for their IMMORAL ways for eternity. I know- it kind of goes against the reason for following a man of peace and trying to emmulate his relationship with others- but thats their attitude. They are quite happy about it actually. I don't mean all of them, but most of the ones I know, and that is a lot of people. So, now we have the moral majority showing up and voting while all the sinners were to lazy or drunk to vote. Thats literally, their attitude. And they couldn't be happier.
While they are busy pulling books off the shelves at Wal-Fart, that depict the naked thighs of supreme court justices- no genitalia, They embrace the book that Oralielly wrote about how to raise morally correct children- the same guy that was sued for sexual misconduct. The family chain store has a history of censorship if it doesn't serve their ideals and agenda.So. Would someone PLEASE tell me how bush is going to affect the moral turpitude of this nation? Instead of a man of peace, he prefer's to call himself the war presidente. Indeed. On a finishing note, I must comment on the abnormal number of beggars I encounter now days. I have gotten tired of just handing them whatever change is in my pocket when they ask, now I make 'em work for it. The other night, I made a grown man tap-dance for 85 cents. I thought it would teach him a lesson, instead- I gave him an idea. If someone is going to have enough nerve to ask me for money- when they don't know me, I wanna see some talent. Even lipsyncing would do- simpson, spears, and milli-vanelli did it, why can't the street urchins? Yeah, I know he was only going to feed his habits- but this sinner needs company in hell- I'll be over there in the corner with the blues band, making the prophets of the televangelical moral majority movement stand on their heads and drink coffee while lipsyncing old Robert Johnson tunes.GOLD BLESS AMERICA. 
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Comment #31 posted by FoM on November 05, 2004 at 11:01:42 PT

kaptinemo
The news is slow and I expected it will be for a while but I would like opinions on how we need to look at all that has and will happen in the near future.Then coins that are silver before that time in the 60s is good from what I am reading that you're saying. Thank you. How will an accelerated war effect the economy particulary if we start seeing many american casualities?I was looking at the red and blue states and kept thinking that the red states are the states where many young people will come from when the draft returns. I guess that many young people in the blue states will find ways out of the draft. I don't know when the draft will return but it has been a long time since young people lived with that threat over their head. Now it will be their problem. Is this thought I have about the red and blue states right? 
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Comment #30 posted by kaptinemo on November 05, 2004 at 10:39:39 PT:

That's GOVERNMENT MINTED silver coins
Sorry. Don't want anyone to be confused. The government silver coins made after 1965, the ones meant for circulation, are the ones with less than full silver content. Many NEW coins *not* minted by Uncle, like the kind you see advertised on the Tube by private minters like Franklin, are solid 99.99 fines silver, which about as pure as you can get.But it would be cheaper to do as Siege's father did, and get certified bullion, so you don't have to pay the markup associated with the minting (stamping designs on the coin).
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Comment #29 posted by kaptinemo on November 05, 2004 at 10:32:58 PT:

FoM, any precious metal is good
But understand that most silver coins made after 1965 are not solid silver. They have a cupro-nickel core...just like your modern coins, whcih have almost no real intrinsic value, like the paper Fed Reserve Notes we all have in wallets and purses and call 'lawful tender'. Since they are not backed by anything, if a crunch comes, toilet paper would have more value.
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Comment #28 posted by kaptinemo on November 05, 2004 at 10:27:34 PT:

Friends, some caution...and information
I may know a lot about a lot, but I don't know everything. But I've seen this pattern before, and it is just plain good sense to prepare for bad times, the way the dollar is acting, as well as the world situation.I would invite you all to go look at this Website: http://theepicenter.com/It has scads of useful information on emergency preparedness that is most practical: http://theepicenter.com/howto.htmlThey seem more into selling stuff (I am not affiliated with them in any way) than the last time I visited 4 years ago, but they still have plenty of free plans for easy to construct things like making emergency generators from lawnmower motors and car alternators.The man who first inspired this site, Ted Wright, was a survivor of the London Blitz during WW2, and really knew his stuff (I have no idea if he is still alive, though). I used to hear him speak on some radio stations in my area years back and he made lots of sense to this ex-grunt. If his "Ted Wright's Complete Survival Manual" is available, I'd invest a few bucks and get a copy. He's no raving loonie, but talks very calmy and clearly about how disasters have happened and caught people unawares, causing all kinds of hardship and sometimes death. Whether you live in the sticks or on the block, he covers the bases.Go have a look. I think you'll find it useful.
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Comment #27 posted by siege on November 05, 2004 at 08:59:17 PT

dongenero
Good though!! I sayed alot dad bough $49,000 of silver Bars in the 1960's before it Died. 
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Comment #26 posted by FoM on November 05, 2004 at 08:41:40 PT

Dumb Question
Will silver coins be something we should keep or just gold?PS: I'm better today and as long as I don't have to see Bush anymore on the news life will go on. I know Bush is going to cause so many serious problems but he deserves the problems he created. On Jay Leno they mentioned the youth vote didn't turn out as expected and Senator McCain said the draft will help wake up the youth. Not the exact words though.
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Comment #25 posted by dongenero on November 05, 2004 at 08:23:07 PT

same place as your cannabis
Keep the precious metals in your stealth grow room.
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Comment #24 posted by siege on November 05, 2004 at 08:08:26 PT

kaptinemo
if the US banks gos to hell where is going to be a safe place to keep 
 1 (oz.)Silver bars a lot of them. 
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Comment #23 posted by mayan on November 05, 2004 at 07:49:40 PT

Synchronicity!
WRH just posted this article...Dollar back on course: downward 
http://www.iht.com/articles/2004/11/05/america/web.currency.html
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Comment #22 posted by siege on November 05, 2004 at 07:15:13 PT

Checks
 I told you on the first there are over 300 in this town that DID NOT get there CHECKS NO (( SS )) ((SSI)) NO ((VA )) YET this month in Tn. and we can not find out why. and the town has 650 people we are hurt bad. 
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Comment #21 posted by kaptinemo on November 05, 2004 at 06:57:37 PT:

We all should prepare.
I remember all too well 1979, when gold was standing at 900 dollars an ounce, and crazy people were selling their silver cutlery and knocking gold fillings out of their teeth and taking them to the assayer's office for cash. Because, then as now, the dollar was swirling around the toilet bowl, thanks to crushing national and personal debt. It's why I am trying my best to be debt free by January 1st. And stocking up on canned goodies.The true price of gold is being artificially held low by a consortium of companies who, as soon as it looks like the dollar will tank, will let loose of their restraint. The price of gold will skyrocket after being held down for so long. A currency such as the US dollar, which has NOTHING backing it but more IOU's, is in a precarious position. In such a scenario, a barter economy will be forced into existence. That means only the goods on hand can be traded. hence the things like canned goods, fuels, even the simplest things like vitamins, would become literally as valuable as any coin made of precious metal. After all, you probably don't have any gold, and you certainly can't eat it.The Administration has known all this for the past 4 years. They just didn't want you to find out. Had the rest of the planet started to count wealth in Euros instead of PetroDollars, this truth would have come out a lot sooner. Saddam wanted his oil wealth to be measured in a stable currency, not one steadily losing value due to inflation. Hence many people believe that part of the reason for the Iraq invasion was to prevent the world from doing so by showing what America would do to any nation contemplating such a switch.But it won't delay the inevitable dollar crash. The devaluation has already begun. The question is, will enough people be warned in time? Will they be prepared? Look at your own pantry for the answer...I don't ask anybody to believe me; just look for example at the difference in exchange rates between the US dollar and the Canadian Loonie, and how the Loonie has risen in value while the Dollar has fallen.Here's a handy indicator:
http://www.oanda.com/convert/classicIt will show the exchange rates in currencies. Watch it from day-to-day. When the value of the dollar goes down, and the Loonie goes up, and you see the same thing happening with other currencies, think inflation. And trouble.

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Comment #20 posted by kaptinemo on November 05, 2004 at 06:31:07 PT:

Max Flowers, I tried to respond to your email
But the server sent an "Undeliverable" message immediately afterwards. 
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Comment #19 posted by mayan on November 05, 2004 at 05:54:09 PT

I Pray I'm Wrong
This is completely unrelated but all of a sudden a possible nightmare scenario just came to me and I feel compelled to share it with the wonderful people here at Cannabis News, whom I feel like I know but have never met a one of you! I don't mean to scare anyone but I would never forgive myself if someting like this happened and I failed to trust my intuition enough to share it with others...Bush may have been allowed to win by the true power brokers because the bottom could fall out of the U.S. economy real soon. Like kap'n said, watch the price of gold. If it keeps climbing and the fed starts raising interest rates, look out! Inflation will likely follow and it could snowball like never before. Meanwhile, the "anti-dollar",the Euro, is backed by gold as the dollar is not. When the price of gold goes up, so does the Euro...but the dollar goes down. The Euro will soon be the dominant currency as foreign investors are being turned off by the unfathomable U.S. deficit. Another major factor is that we have achieved "peak oil" and everything will be getting more expensive. Also, Mike Ruppert's new book, "Crossing the Rubicon" is quickly blowing the lid off of the 9/11 conspiracy/cover-up and this administration is beginning to sweat over it. Time is running out for them!If the bottom does fall out the government will have to blame it on something other than their own incompetence,greed and lack of foresight. Failure to do so would mean them losing their grip on power. Another staged terror attack could be their answer. Now, back to why Bush may have been "allowed" to win the obviously rigged election. The more militaristic/fascist branch of the "RepubliCrats" may be needed to quell widespread dissent after the said staged attack and subsequent martial law. Retired General Tommy Franks has already said that The Constitution would be scrapped in favor of a military form of government if there is another "attack". Our Constitution is on it's last leg!!! The current police-state, the PATRIOT Act and Department of Homeland Security weren't created to deal with terrorists, they were created to deal with disgruntled Americans! The only thing standing between the greedheads and their dream of total globalization is an armed American populace. Their safeguard to fall back on if their plans happen to fail is that they still have the "Crats" to come to the rescue and "lead" us after the dust clears. How clever! Porter Goss is now in at the CIA and Bush now has another four years. All of the pieces are in place. Check out the vote fraud links below and ask yourself why the other "Skull & Bones" candidate,Kerry, would so easily concede the presidency. The two parties,bound by the CFR, are one as they scratch each others backs to keep the power to the elite and away from the third parties, and hence...the people. By posting information like all over the net we might make the fascists think twice about doing something like this. Let's hope and pray this doesn't happen but everyone would be wise to stock up on water and canned goods. Be prepared just in case!States with electronic voting machines gave Bush mysterious 5% advantage; bloggers do the math that broadcast networks fail to follow:
http://www.newstarget.com/002076.htmlVOTERGATE:
http://www.votergate.tv/WRH Vote Fraud Archives:
http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/archives/cat_vote_fraud.html
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Comment #18 posted by Alias on November 05, 2004 at 05:09:30 PT:

Early Prevention
"The main arguments opponents raised were that it would send a bad message to children about drugs and that separating medical and recreational marijuana would be a law-enforcement nightmare."Perhaps the line between medical and recreational is not as clear as some would hope. The neuroprotective qualities of cannabis are better known all the time. If 'an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure' is true, if it is easier to treat a neurological disease early rather than later, then it would make sense to use cannabis early. I would now say that using cannabis as soon as a person suspects something is wrong, might help. Before diagnosis by a neurologist even. It might well be your best hope.Till we know different I would say 'early and lots'. Not everyone takes to cannabis but this seems to be a good bet. 
Disabed Ideas
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Comment #17 posted by afterburner on November 05, 2004 at 03:15:14 PT

What's Wrong with That?
"Bill O'Reilly on Fox News claimed the measure would let shamans from the Amazon set up shop in Oregon." [shamams, that is, medicine people, tribal "priests"]"Bill of Rights 
"Amendment I"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof;...
[that is, freedom of religion]"Amendment X"The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the states, are reserved to the states respectively, or to the people." 
[that is, state regulation of medicine] --U.S. Constitution - Bill of Rights http://www.law.cornell.edu/constitution/constitution.billofrights.html{A line from a poem, “The New Colossus,” by the nineteenth-century American poet Emma Lazarus. “The New Colossus,” describing the Statue of Liberty, appears on a plaque at the base of the statue. It ends with the statue herself speaking:"Give me your tired, your poor, 
Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free, 
The wretched refuse of your teeming shore. 
Send these, the homeless, tempest-tossed, to me: 
I lift my lamp beside the golden door."} 
--Statue of Liberty, welcoming immigrants. [Most of us are immigrants or children of immigrants, a nation of mostly immigrants: the American Dream] The New Dictionary of Cultural Literacy http://www.bartleby.com/59/6/givemeyourti.html

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Comment #16 posted by dr slider on November 05, 2004 at 00:24:22 PT:

up-n-down
I langor in the fear and dread of my brethren and schwestern. Dark skies promise bright mornings.We have tools and 3rd Mil draught that's gonna duality the shaft.Ain't nothin' but a thingFear and dread are but wrappings of Trinity
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Comment #15 posted by FoM on November 04, 2004 at 20:51:43 PT

The GCW 
I just went to post on the other board I post on and I read a comment from the woman who runs the board. She was really upset. This shooting incident was where she lives. She is a strong person but she wasn't tonight. She said she lives between two bases and all day long they have been doing maneuvers and the sky was filled with trails. The vibrations cracked her pool. She is angry like I've never seen her. She wants it to stop.
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Comment #14 posted by The GCW on November 04, 2004 at 20:09:51 PT

Drugs and The Nation?
What about the nations guns?What about the Governments guns?Nov 4, 10:28 PM ESTJet Fires at N.J. School During Training By WAYNE PARRY
Associated Press WriterLITTLE EGG HARBOR, N.J. (AP) -- A National Guard F-16 fighter jet on a nighttime training mission strafed an elementary school with 25 rounds of ammunition, authorities said Thursday. No one was injured.The military is investigating the incident that damaged Little Egg Harbor Intermediate School in southern New Jersey shortly after 11 p.m. Wednesday. The school is a few miles from a military firing range.Police were called when a custodian who was the only person in the school heard what sounded like someone running across the roof.Police Chief Mark Siino said officers noticed punctures in the roof. Ceiling tiles had fallen into classrooms, and there were scratch marks in the asphalt outside.The pilot of the single-seat jet was supposed to fire at a ground target on the firing range three and half miles from the school, said Col. Brian Webster, commander of the 177th Fighter Wing of the New Jersey Air National Guard, which is responsible for the range. He did not know what led to the school getting shot up.The plane was 7,000 feet in the air when the shots were fired. The gun, an M61-A1 Vulcan cannon, is located in the plane's left wing. It fires 2-inch-long bullets that are made of lead and do not explode, said Webster."The National Guard takes this situation very seriously," http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/S/SCHOOL_STRAFED?SITE=COFRI&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULTIn 2002, an Air National Guard F-16 that had been practicing attacks at the range crashed along the Garden State Parkway. The plane's pilot ejected safely, and no one on the ground was hurt.Errant practice bombs were blamed for forest fires that burned more than 11,000 acres of the Pine Barrens near the range in 1999 and more than 1,600 acres in 2002.
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Comment #13 posted by The GCW on November 04, 2004 at 19:53:50 PT

Careful, siege,
This is the wide open net;If word gets out, the exterminators will prohibit all fruits, vegetables and nuts (maybe not ALL the nuts).
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Comment #12 posted by siege on November 04, 2004 at 19:46:23 PT

Max Flowers
I have a friend that is a botanist and with his help this is what we have so far. 
5 types of Veg.s and 4 types of fruit trees and 1 grape. 2 nuts trees, I have been working on for 4 1/2 years.they are vegetables fruit nuts trees no nuts just flowers the flowers will couch lock you. 
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Comment #11 posted by The GCW on November 04, 2004 at 19:41:47 PT

Message to children?
What will children think when they see George Bush's troops et al. cage Christs for using a plant?Perhaps that is the test they want to give to the children:A child that passes the test their way, has new age Hitler potential.Those are the children that can be manipulated to kill.If You watch them kill Jesus Christ over and over again and don't shout and scream, then they know they've got You.Bush's Skul n bones calculation? Bush needs more people to commit to murder.Cannabis is not addictive; BLOOD IS.(What do children think of caging the Sons of God for using what God said is good?)
 
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Comment #10 posted by The GCW on November 04, 2004 at 19:06:26 PT

Max Flowers,
 Are You describing a love feast? The exterminators must find those chemicals and prohibit those too, now. Anyone caught with those photo chems. will be caged just like the cannabists.Jude 1:11-13; subtitled: "The Warnings of History to the Ungodly" (The last book before Revelation)Woe to them! For they have gone the way of Cain (murderers; see page 3 of the owners manual), and for pay they have rushed headlong into the error of Balaam, and perished in the rebellion of Korah. 
12  These are the men who are hidden reefs in your love feasts when they feast with you without fear, caring for themselves; clouds without water, carried along by winds; autumn trees without fruit, doubly dead, uprooted; 
13  wild waves of the sea, casting up their own shame like foam; wandering stars, for whom the black darkness has been reserved forever. http://www.biblegateway.org/bible?passage=JUDE+1&language=english&version=NASBJude :11, "Woe to them! For they have gone the way of Cain"Kerry or Bush... We are the bloodiest, getting bloodier.
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Comment #9 posted by mayan on November 04, 2004 at 18:24:03 PT

Another Bad Message
The main arguments opponents raised were that it would send a bad message to children about drugs and that separating medical and recreational marijuana would be a law-enforcement nightmare.Yeah, it's a bad message if sick people can benefit from a plant that God gave all of us. It was a bad message for God to put cannabis on the earth so God should be thrown in jail for cannabis cultivation! Let's just throw the sick and the healthy in jail while we're at it since seperating them would be a law-enforcement nightmare. Boo-hoo.Sorry if these have been posted...City hopes to block vote on marijuana legalization initiative (ID): 
http://tinyurl.com/69lptA marijuana breakthrough?
http://news.scotsman.com/index.cfm?id=1275352004Nearly three-fourths of the West now covered by medical marijuana laws:
http://ww2.saukvalley.com/news/319361310101922.bspThe way out is the way in... Day of the Dead: The Haunting of the White House - by
Cynthia McKinney and Catherine Austin Fitts:
http://www.fromthewilderness.com/free/ww3/110204_mckinney_fitts.shtmlPROPOSITION 9/11:
http://www.proposition911.org/9/11 Bush Knew - An American Requiem: 
http://www.takebackthemedia.com/true911.html9/11 Truth LA:
http://www.911truthla.us/9/11 Was An Inside Job - A Call To All True Patriots: 
http://www.911sharethetruth.com/Crossing the Rubicon: The Decline of the American Empire at the End of the Age of Oil - A new book by Michael C. Ruppert:
http://www.911truth.org/article.php?story=20040907100201671Day of the Dead: The Haunting of the White House - by
Cynthia McKinney and Catherine Austin Fitts:
http://www.fromthewilderness.com/free/ww3/110204_mckinney_fitts.shtmlPROPOSITION 9/11:
http://www.proposition911.org/9/11 Bush Knew - An American Requiem: 
http://www.takebackthemedia.com/true911.html9/11 Truth LA:
http://www.911truthla.us/9/11 Was An Inside Job - A Call To All True Patriots: 
http://www.911sharethetruth.com/Crossing the Rubicon: The Decline of the American Empire at the End of the Age of Oil - A new book by Michael C. Ruppert:
http://www.911truth.org/article.php?story=20040907100201671
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Comment #8 posted by Max Flowers on November 04, 2004 at 18:05:19 PT

Agog - check this out
Hi Agog,First let me point out that by no means is it only people in BC doing great breeding work. Plenty of folks in the US, and Europe and other places around the world are doing it too.Regarding "GMO" cannabis, here's a bit of cutting-edge activity you all will find interesting. There is a simple chemical compound, silver thiosulfate (STS), that people are increasingly working with to make seeds out of rare clone-only strains. It is made from two very common chemicals available from photography supply sellers. When sprayed on a female plant (that is in vegetative growth) in the right concentration, a solution of STS makes that female reverse its sex and turn into a male. The resulting pollen from that faux male contains all female chromosomes, and when used to pollinate a female, it makes feminized seeds (seeds that will all grow up to be females). So, if you use as the female (seed mother) an individual of the same strain, you get seeds where no seeds were possible before with no natural male available. It is of course also possible to cross the STS "male" with a female of a different strain, but this is less often done. There are a lot of prized strains in circulation for which only female clones are available, and STS is rapidly becoming an indispensible tool for making seeds of those strains so that the strains can be shared, more widely distributed, and of course, sold (as valuable feminized seeds).Put THAT in your pipe and smoke it...
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Comment #7 posted by Agog on November 04, 2004 at 16:53:34 PT

Gene Splicing - Selective Breeding
I always get .... agog when I hear of the killer strain genetically modified cannabis that is being grown by our northern BC brothers and sisters.... For decades it has been good botany, observation and selective breeding for the qualities we desire.... I guess it's a good thing we are all afflicted with "amotivational syndrome", short attention spans, and other terrible conditions from our association with the "demon weed" or else we would have been breeding "Feed me Seymour" plants ala Little Shop of Horror's that sniff out and consume DEA minions on sight.... I can dream anyway can't I?All the Best
Agog
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Comment #6 posted by siege on November 04, 2004 at 16:33:55 PT

off topic 
thats a good idea I can get the genetically modified seeds from the Co-op in corn and plant it with the weed s and see what happens. could be wild!! thanks for Idea.
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Comment #5 posted by siege on November 04, 2004 at 16:22:35 PT

Agog
 for the passed 6/7 years in Iowa. the farmers have to dig and burn the weeds because the genetically modified seeds that they use in food or what every they grow. have cross over genetically with the weeds and became resistant to the roundup being sprayed and other weed killers they use.
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Comment #4 posted by global_warming on November 04, 2004 at 16:18:35 PT

Agog, Thanks
Some people can realize that the diversity of "LIFE" including our little plant brothers and sisters, have all been spawned by the great maker..and however some may try to stifle and destroy what they fear and do not try to understand, they are only destroying their only chances toward a better understanding of this great and wonderful effort of the living and real world.The marriage in Canna, was the first miracle, the changeing of water to wine, but that miracle was performed in the worst part of town, in the company of the worst kind of people, in fact, a mixed marriage, contrary to all that was considerd acceptable in those times.The point is, that, such a great vision of humanity lived and visited the lowliest of places and took the time to give of his grace.I hope Ashcroft can come down to the people someday, maybe we can shake hands and pray together.gw
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Comment #3 posted by Agog on November 04, 2004 at 15:45:18 PT

Re: Contributions
Hi global_warming,In the past I made my checks out to "MPP". I suppose you could also check out mpp.org for more information, perhaps even a phone number if so inclined.On a separate but related drug war note, I just read an interesting article in the November "Wired" magazine about genetically modified coca, it apparently mutated and became resistant to the roundup being sprayed and the farmers noticed which plants, employed good selective breeding techniques and now have seas of green coca fields in the middle of otherwise desolated landscape..... I've never experienced coca in any form (some gateway theory huh) but I find what a perfect illustration of the futility of the War on (some) Drugs...Ashcroft also rumored to be resigning?????Agog
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Comment #2 posted by global_warming on November 04, 2004 at 14:57:40 PT

re:contributions
I received a request for a donation from MPP, but nowhere did it say to who I should make the check out to..I would have sent some money, but I have to know who to make the check out to..
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Comment #1 posted by Taylor121 on November 04, 2004 at 14:21:20 PT

Donate more
I hope we can attract more people to our cause. We HAVE to have more funding from grassroots people to win this. If you haven't donated yet, do so now so we have a strong beginning in 2005!http://www.norml.org
http://www.mpp.org
http://www.drugpolicy.org
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