cannabisnews.com: Are Anti-Drug Ads a Big Waste?





Are Anti-Drug Ads a Big Waste?
Posted by CN Staff on October 04, 2004 at 21:50:41 PT
By David Kiley 
Source: Business Week 
The White House Office of National Drug Control Policy on Oct. 4 chose a new advertising agency, Foote Cone & Belding, to lead its $200 million-per-year anti-drug advertising effort aimed at parents and children. The previous agency, Ogilvy & Mather, was accused of overbilling the government, but that's hardly the only controversy dogging the government's six-year-old anti-drug ad effort.
The ONDCP, headed by federal drug czar John Walters, spends its ad budget buying time, space, and public-relation services for anti-drug ads and promotions warning youngsters about the ills of pot, ecstasy, glue-sniffing, and other such substances. The agency also urges parents to monitor kids for drug use. For each ad paid the ONDCP buys with tax dollars, media companies contribute a matching ad. It sounds like a public-service "slam dunk" in current Beltway-speak, but the General Accounting Office and Congress are studying whether any link can be made between the ads and declining drug use. So far, the only study that tried to assess this found no connection and concluded that the campaign may actually backfire: The more ads some kids see, the more likely they are to try pot. DECLINING USE. Now that the review for a new ad agency is over, the ONDCP plans to look for a new research firm to study and track parents and children who are exposed to the ads. In the case of parents, researchers will look for evidence that those who see the ads are more likely to have "the talk" with their children about the dangers of taking drugs. That research for the past five years has been led by the Annenberg School for Communication at the University of Pennsylvania. Friction has arisen between the ONDCP and the researchers, however, since the Annenberg School hasn't been able to find a link between seeing the ads and declining drug use -- which the White House is seeking to justify re-funding the effort. Walters is convinced, based on other indicators, that it's a worthy campaign. "Fewer teens are using drugs because of the deliberate and serious messages they have received about the dangers of drugs from their parents, leaders, and prevention efforts like our National Youth Anti-Drug Media Campaign," he says, pointing to a Health & Human Services Dept. survey showing an overall 11% decline in drug use by 8th, 10th, and 12th graders in 2002-03. "RUBE GOLDBERG" STUDY? But Walters' own special assistant, David Murray, opens the door for more doubt. "We are getting great benefits, but we aren't sure we have anything to do with it," says Murray. Tobacco and alcohol consumption have fallen among teens, too, but the ONDCP campaign doesn't address smoking or alcohol. Murray adds, however, that teasing out the media campaign's contribution to national drug-use trends is "extraordinarily tough...and no one is held to that standard in any other government program." Murray termed the previous five-year tracking study directed by the Annenberg School as "Rube Goldberg." Robert C. Hornik, who directed the study for the school until last January, contends it "was the results [the government] didn't like," not the study or its methodology. He points out that the ONDCP approved Annenberg's methodology. Furthermore, he notes, the agency didn't dispute the study's finding that parents exposed to the ads were more likely to talk to their kids about drug use and more closely monitor their behavior. The reason? "That finding was what they were looking for," says Hornik. POLITICAL UNDERTONES. The ONDCP got into anti-drug marketing after private media companies cut back on the number of free public-service ads they do. The ONDCP lobbied for funds to go commercial in 1997 after then-crug czar Barry McCaffrey became incensed over a medical-marijuana ballot initiative that passed in California. However, the campaign's often-political undertones have repeatedly stoked controversy. McCaffrey, for instance, got into trouble for allowing, without telling Congress, TV stations to provide their advertising match with anti-drug story lines in shows such as ER instead of actual ads. The public wasn't informed that the stories were indirectly influenced by a financial commitment from the White House, and legislators who backed the program were incensed. The campaign was further politicized in 2002 when the ONDCP stated its intent to run $96 million in ads during and just after the midterm election. The ads' main focus is anti-marijuana messages aimed at state ballot initiatives for drug-policy reform. Such direct intervention in state politics drew fire from both Democrats and Republicans. TARGETING CANDIDATES. Despite the controversy, Walters shows little sign of backing down. He has made it clear in speeches that he plans to continue using the power of his office to defeat state drug-policy reform initiatives. And last year, the bill to reauthorize $1 billion in public money as part of the $2 billion five-year campaign was derailed in the Senate after the GOP leadership slipped vague language into the bill that could have allowed the ONDCP to target specific political candidates not in sync with White House drug policy. Politics aside, Bob Deniston, deputy director of the ONDCP campaign, says he believes a new tracking study will validate the ads and a change in creative strategy that began in 2002, which the new ad agency is expected to support. The latest ads aimed at youngsters, created by several ad agencies under the direction of the Partnership for a Drug-Free America, shift from depicting damage self-inflicted by marijuana and chemical inhalants (i.e. a brain-damaged teenager being fed baby food by his mother) to depicting accountability and consequence. One ad shows stoned teenagers running down a kid on a bike. "Young kids think they are invulnerable [to hurting themselves]...so we are targeting their view of the world," says Deniston. The big questions now: Will the White House buy into that notion? And how many people will believe the new studies when they come out? Note: The government has yet to prove that its $200 million-a-year media campaign is effective, leading to all sorts of carping.Kiley is Marketing editor for BusinessWeek in New YorkEdited by Thane PetersonSource: Business Week (US)Author: David Kiley Published: October 5, 2004Copyright: 2004 The McGraw-Hill Companies, Inc.Contact: bwreader businessweek.comWebsite: http://www.businessweek.com/Related Articles:White House Drug Czar Unveils New Ad Campaignhttp://cannabisnews.com/news/thread18255.shtmlProsecutors Say Bills Were Inflated For Drug Adshttp://cannabisnews.com/news/thread18100.shtmlAdvertising Executives Charged with Cheating U.S. http://cannabisnews.com/news/thread18099.shtml
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Comment #52 posted by dr slider on October 07, 2004 at 01:24:15 PT:
either and or
Just to clarify....the anti-christ as well.
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Comment #51 posted by dr slider on October 07, 2004 at 01:05:39 PT:
more abnormal thoughts
I see the creation of the either-or syndrome beginning when man became noetic, perusing his image in the pond with the "realization" that "that is me", separate from that which is not me. The Taoist call that moment The Separation (simple and explicative), the Christians call it The Fall From Grace (judgemental and punitive). The ultimate irony is that it took groking Tao to lead me to be the christ.
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Comment #50 posted by afterburner on October 06, 2004 at 20:42:16 PT
dr slider
Either-or is manifested in the mind-body split, a characteristic of Western thought. This is Bush's problem: he says, "You're either good or evil. You're either for us or against us." I too learned about the healing of the mind-body split in Eastern thought, the union (yoga) of mind and body through the practice of yoga and tai chi and through reading the Book of the Tao by Lao Tse. This caused me to become a devotee of both-and thinking. I even had a litter of cats once called "either, or, both, and."
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Comment #49 posted by Hope on October 06, 2004 at 18:23:29 PT
Dr. Slider
I think.I'm sleepy. I just smiled because I spent a short period of my life carrying around one of those type books. And when I recalled it...it made me smile. Doing yoga on the hilltops and "every leaf on the tree" and all.I'm so sleepy though...after I sent the smile...I thought...heck...maybe somewhere he said something serious and I didn't get it.I'll reread later and maybe I'll have to apologize for the smiley face...what I comprhended stirred a memory and I just had to smile.Thanks
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Comment #48 posted by Hope on October 06, 2004 at 18:18:12 PT
Dr. Slider,
:-)
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Comment #47 posted by dr slider on October 06, 2004 at 11:41:06 PT:
Good AND Evil
To both clarify and further obfuscate, The dualty in either-or statements is in the nature of "or". "To be or not to be, that is the question." (B.S.) "To be AND not to be, that is the answer." (dr s). There are no coincidences because everything is co-incidental."True words seem paradoxical" (Master Lao)
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Comment #46 posted by dr slider on October 06, 2004 at 11:21:54 PT:
Hope
The end of Duality. 
..."Duality gives birth to Trinity, 
Trinity gives birth to all things" (Master Lao)...and all that that transition implies. My simple mind boggles at the implications. Imagine...No heaven or hell, no past or future, no life or death, no right or wrong, no hope or fear...
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Comment #45 posted by Hope on October 06, 2004 at 04:49:02 PT
This one could be a doozy!
http://www.local6.com/news/3781670/detail.html This young woman would have been in a lot of trouble anyway and likely terrified…children can do that for you…in a matter of seconds… pray often and perhaps always for Grace, I say. Usually you can’t even go to the bathroom or grab a quick shower with a four year old in the house without him going with you...or ultimately much worse... and sometimes fatal!…And never believe that child might be taking a nap…but the fact that she stepped outside and smoked a joint…likely ruined her life as well as her child’s. Always realize how fascinated children are with candles and never have a lighter in their reach. Many of them can use child proof lighters that you can't. Many can open child proof containers by 18 months. That's the truth.Nothing like this ever happens unless you do drugs. See…this proves how dangerous marijuana is. It’s wicked. That’s so obvious.Dangerous herb. Very dangerous.Amazing, isn’t it? 
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Comment #44 posted by Hope on October 06, 2004 at 04:36:59 PT
Some more ideas for anti-drug and anti-pot ads
An ONDCP commercial based on this case might influence a child not to mess with the stuff. It should scare them. I personally find it alarming. It's sad, too. Nobody is safe from marijuana.http://talkleft.com/new_archives/008095.html#008095This one might get their attention and alert them to danger, danger, danger, too.http://www.november.org/thewall/cases/frederick-d/frederick-d.htmlThis one is scary ... Just look at those faces and their time. That will show them how dangerous the drug plague really is. They could use these pictures and it would cost less than a billion dollars I bet. http://candoclemency.com/They could learn a lot from this onehttp://www.november.org/thewall/cases/brown-a/brown-a.htmlThis one could be the basis of an after school special. http://www.november.org/thewall/MJ-index.html
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Comment #43 posted by Hope on October 06, 2004 at 01:14:28 PT
Dr. Slider, May I ask...
the end of what?
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Comment #42 posted by dr slider on October 06, 2004 at 01:06:44 PT:
"COPS (Drug War)"
They do use footage of the real thing, and sell it as entertainment. When a citizenry loves to watch their neighbors brutally beat down for imbibing the herb, the end can't be far off.
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Comment #41 posted by Hope on October 05, 2004 at 22:40:24 PT
young life bleed away into the carpet
They need to come in for a close up when the eleven year is convulsing in his death throes.That's anti-drug and it might help them not want to get cross ways of the law. God forbid!Mama protect me! Please!I know it might save just one life. It would be worth it.Maybe we could use footage of the real thing!Man...that might really be effective.
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Comment #40 posted by Hope on October 05, 2004 at 22:34:47 PT
Another one!
They could show other kids throwing books and dictionaries and staplers at him when the teacher walks out of the room. He's just back from Rehab and the cops talked him into narcing out all his friends and half the school by scaring him witless six months before and he's finally returned to class today. He has to take Major Pharm, prescribed to him by the Rehab guys cause he's flickin over the flickin edge. He's got a 4.0 grade point average but he has to quit school and get a job at Wal-mart in another state. That might be a good one. That would have to be a young girl for better effect. The other kids could pull her hair in the hall when the teachers weren't looking and call her names and pinch her every chance they get.Dang weed.
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Comment #39 posted by Hope on October 05, 2004 at 22:26:50 PT
Oh! Another one that might work...
Based on the "Boys on the Tracks" story in Mena, Arkansas several years ago.That should make a kid stop and think.
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Comment #38 posted by Hope on October 05, 2004 at 22:21:21 PT
They could show one
maybe a voice over on the surfer kid. Watch them all laughing and showing the stuff from his car and playing to the camera like the happy good ole boys they are.The voice over could say. "They hunt people".That should help. Specially if they do close ups on the weapons and the sneers."They hunt people and they like it."Or they could just title it "Punk".
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Comment #37 posted by Hope on October 05, 2004 at 22:15:47 PT
That Shotgun or Riot Gun business
I think something like that might be even more effective than the frying pan...and hey...no one can deny it can't happen.
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Comment #36 posted by Hope on October 05, 2004 at 22:12:56 PT
I really haven't even had to use
my imagination yet...all those can be based on reality. I can think of lot's more. That might be hard hitting effective stuff. Don't you think so?
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Comment #35 posted by Hope on October 05, 2004 at 22:09:46 PT
A pill one...not pot
They could show a fourteen year old girl taking a pill at a sleep over pajama party and getting sick and every body was too afraid of the cops to get her help. They could show her dying and little girls crying and freaking and trying to wake her up but still too terrified of the law enforcement repercussions that they panic and let their friend die.
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Comment #34 posted by Hope on October 05, 2004 at 22:06:27 PT
They could make one of a 
school principal putting marijuana in a student's locker and calling the police and a drug dog out and asking them to search his locker...twice or more...and finally in frustration he lunges...swings the locker door open and says in a loud voice, pointing..."There it is!"
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Comment #33 posted by Hope on October 05, 2004 at 22:02:36 PT
truthful, realistic anti-drug ad
Base one on a real scene I saw on a Cops program many years ago that struck me so hard. A blond teenage boy probably about 16 or 17, maybe 19 at the most. He had swim trunks on...you know those baggy floral kind the boys used to wear. I think they were mostly orange and yellow. I remember him as barefooted. He was apparently somewhat stoned and in a little vw bug or something in a narrow street or alley or parking lot or something. They humiliated him and threw him on the ground...gravel...he was naked except for the stupid floral swim trunks...typical surfer kid for the summer thing. They...fully clothed and jackbooted...three or four of them, proceeded to throw him in the gravel...knees first then pressed their knees...one of them anyway...someone may have put their foot on his neck or back, too. There were several cops...one kid, I think one of the cops had him by the hair while he was on the ground and they cuffed his hands behind his back and laughed at him and yanked him up roughly and put him in a police car and laughingly started searching his car. All the time one of them was talking to him and looking back to the camera and laughing and mocking him and generally being quite mean to him...like armed bullies. I don't remember if they had a dog or not. I could have blocked that out. It was broad daylight.They could have a film of them walking around cars in the parking lots of highschool football games with drug dogs sniffing each car. They could show their grandfather getting blown away because he thought it was a home invasion when they bust down the door and come in screaming to terrify an old man who doesn't have a clue that his stupid kid got him busted.They can show him going to foster homes.They should show the films of the raid that the children all got guns drawn on them and apparently vicious dogs around them...and they were forced into subservient positions by people screaming at them and waving guns.They could show kids strangling themselves to death when they masturbate...if they involve drugs of course.They could switch to the country from the beach and show another blond haired tan young man driving down a farm to market road in his Dad’s old orange GMC pick up truck. He's been hauling hay and the window is down...no airconditioning...summertime...and to the Eagles, "I been going down the road trying to loosen my mind...got seven women on my mind"….getting pulled over, thrown around, threatened, searched, and humiliated or maybe if it was a really good and scary ad they could show and 93 year old man pull out in front of him in their vehicle, and the kids got the right of the way but he gets blamed and searched because he’s suspicious…cause he’s young and might have a joint. The announcer could say..."No...it's not harmless by any means."Wow! Imagine the ones they could do about the black kids that have been shot in the head, or the young Hispanic shot in the back at close range by a Dynamic Entry Drug Warrior’s finger on the trigger of a shotgun aimed at the small of his back. This kid is eleven years old and he hadn’t even got up out of his bunk bed to get ready for school that weekday morning. He was ordered to the carpet by the screaming maniacs in black and we can watch his young life bleed away into the carpet.They could show the terror on his fourteen year old brother's face being man handled in the living room fifteen feet away. A shotgun makes a magnificent sound. Especially going off in the house. That could be very effective...and truthful.Yes…they could make some real anti-drug ads that would mean a lot to quite a few children.
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Comment #32 posted by FoM on October 05, 2004 at 20:55:18 PT
ekim
I found it hard to stay involved in the debate. It didn't impress me much. I'm really looking forward to Fridays debate. I don't know when AARP Magazine will get here. We joined a week or two ago. Guess what. We tried to get on with AARP insurance for our home and we would have to shoot our dog to get coverage. Only in America! 
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Comment #31 posted by ekim on October 05, 2004 at 20:44:11 PT
who will ask about the ending #2 War in the Nation
funny -----not --as so much time was spent on Med issues tonite and Cleveland is the poorest City in the Nation and the Number 2 War going on in the Country was never even mentioned. With Billions being spent why not one question from a member of the most incarcerated group affected by this War. Just the Chicago ticket law would have saved millions for Cleveland. does anyone know when the AARP magazine comes out Modern Maturity is said to have Med Cannabis article in it. 
http://www.leap.cc/events
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Comment #30 posted by FoM on October 05, 2004 at 19:52:43 PT
CNN Poll 
Who do you think won the vice presidential debate? 
 Current Results:Dick Cheney  --  12% -- 1788 votes  
John Edwards   -- 85% -- 13022 votes  
Evenly matched   -- 3% -- 512 votes Total: 15322 votes  
http://www.cnn.com/ELECTION/2004/index.html
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Comment #29 posted by FoM on October 05, 2004 at 19:44:06 PT
Who Won the Debate? 
Current Results: * 35434 responses 
  VP Dick Cheney - 23%  Sen. John Edwards - 77% http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/3036697/
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Comment #28 posted by FoM on October 05, 2004 at 19:30:28 PT
Ron
That happened during Kerry and Bush too. I posted it on a thread to show others. Timestamps are a wonderful things!
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Comment #27 posted by ron on October 05, 2004 at 19:21:20 PT
Off topic and irrelevant 
It's 7:15 pm pacific time. I'm watching the VP debate at the 75 minute mark.The 90-minute debate format encouraged give-and-take, and both men went at it eagerly.http://apnews.myway.com/article/20041006/D85HKNO80.htmlThe 90-minute debate, 28 days before the election, has added significance because polls showed that Democratic presidential nominee John Kerry won his Sept. 30 debate against President George W. Bush. Cheney's prominence in shaping U.S. policy also is increasing attention on the vice presidential campaign, said Gary Jacobson, a professor of political science at the University of California in San Diego. http://quote.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=10000087&sid=aznrSvQk_5Jc&refer=top_world_news The debate is still going on and google is directing me to sites that have already written the verdict.Is nothing sacred anymore? Maybe I should go to law school.
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Comment #26 posted by AgaetisByrjun on October 05, 2004 at 19:17:29 PT
rchandar
Ain't it the truth, though? Part of me wishes I had kept smoking and then quit. I switched to dipping because it's less disgusting in nearly every respect. You don't make everything smell awful or pollute everyone's air, and you can't be immediately branded as a smoker (which is a huge stigma). Sure you have to spit into a bottle, but it sure beats the alternative in my mind. In addition, it's easier to control because it's more of a private thing (it's far too gross to do in public) and takes a lot of time, and I'd rather have my cancer growing where I'll see it, as opposed to hanging around in my lungs, invisible until it's too late.That's not an endorsement, mind you. But because it's so clearly better (in my eyes), it's devilishly hard to quit for good. No matter who you are, there's a tobacco product for you, and once it's got its claws in, good luck getting them out. Part of me is angry at myself for picking up a fresh can, but the other part is really enjoying it. I haven't felt as complete since I quit. Sometimes you wish you could go back to when you were ten years old and were convinced that drugs are bad, period, and that you'd never use them as long as you lived. Childhood is beautiful.
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Comment #25 posted by rchandar on October 05, 2004 at 19:02:59 PT:
agaetis brjun
My uncle from India used to be a chain smoker of cigarettes. I used to talk to him about how bad they were, how it would kill him, etc...His comment: "You know what happens to people like you?""They end up smoking!"Twenty-four years later, it's true, of course...--rchandar
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Comment #24 posted by rchandar on October 05, 2004 at 19:00:19 PT:
anti-drug ads
It's bogus, just bogus...they're touting their statistics that show an 11 percent decline in teen use. Well, what would've happened if that didn't happen? More people would've been arrested and processed. ONDCP tries to make it sound like they're "protecting" children from the scourges of drugs. But in reality, it's a spy group that wants to forward the information to people who, of course, arrest people.Stupid f #kin' bullshit!!! End the War!!!rchandar
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Comment #23 posted by FoM on October 05, 2004 at 18:59:05 PT
Off Topic
Post-Invasion Chaos Blamed for Drug SurgeAfghanistan's opium poppy crop is at a record level. Trafficking and use are rising in Iraq. 
By T. Christian Miller, Times Staff WriterOctober 4, 2004 Copyright 2004 Los Angeles TimesWASHINGTON — Afghanistan's opium poppy crop this year is set to break all records, surging past the peak levels reported under the Taliban regime, top American and international counter-narcotics officials said.At the same time, U.N. and U.S. officials are increasingly worried by signs of a nascent drug trade developing in Iraq, where smugglers are taking advantage of the continuing chaos and unguarded borders.Instability in the wake of the U.S.-led invasions of Afghanistan and Iraq has resulted in one booming market for the production of drugs, and a second potential market for narcotics sale and transit, officials said."All post-conflict situations, whether in Iraq or Afghanistan, are always characterized by a significant increase in addiction," said Antonio Maria Costa, the head of the United Nations' Office on Drug and Crimes. "The problem is definitely there." In testimony last month, Robert B. Charles, the assistant secretary who heads the State Department's Bureau for International Narcotics and Law Enforcement Affairs, told Congress that CIA figures, expected to be released in a matter of weeks, show Afghanistan's opium poppy cultivation approaching 250,000 acres, up more than 60% from the 2003 level. Snipped:Complete Article: http://www.latimes.com/news/yahoo/la-fg-opium4oct04,1,3812584.story
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Comment #22 posted by E_Johnson on October 05, 2004 at 17:49:25 PT
The tone of the ads is a cause for serious concern
This business of stoned teens running over a child in a fast food outlet -- that comes perilously close to the Jews Eat Christian Babies propaganda that was a classsic line of European anti-semitism up to and including the Nazis.It's encouraging to see that most Americans are rejecting them and seeing them for what they are.
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Comment #21 posted by mayan on October 05, 2004 at 17:35:16 PT
More Like A Crime
Are the ads a waste? Duh!They are lying to Americans using said American's own money! It's more like a crime!!!
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Comment #20 posted by FoM on October 05, 2004 at 17:07:38 PT
AgaetisByrjun
Thank you. I added it to my wish list. I know there is so much music that I would like if I only heard it. We don't have good music on our radio. We are going to buy music and DVDs for Christmas. Live-Aid is being released but I'm not sure when. 
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Comment #19 posted by AgaetisByrjun on October 05, 2004 at 16:41:14 PT
FoM
Bryter Layter and Five Leaves Left are both great albums. BL has more sentimental value to me and it's more accessible. Some people complain that it's too orchestrated and poppy, but I can really only think of one thing that would improve it (dropping the saxophone and backing vocals from "Poor Boy"). The album's a bit more upbeat and cheerful than the rest.Five Leaves Left is his debut and is a bit harder to get into, but once you do it's absolutely beautiful. It's definitely the prettier of the two but it all kind of sounds the same, and the track order makes it a bit tough to crack at first ("River Man" and "Three Hours" as tracks 2 and 3 was a bit much at first. "Three Hours" has some spellbinding guitar work, but the two together is a mountain of slow dreamy folk that's a bit tough to climb at first).I'd go with Bryter Layter as a first purchase, and if you like that, get Five Leaves Left, then finally Pink Moon and Time of No Reply. He put out three albums in his lifetime and one posthumously, so it's pretty easy to work your way into his work. Skip the best-of compilations for this reason, though. If you like Bryter Layter, you'll probably want to get everything he ever did. That album's my favorite, but Five Leaves Left is probably his best (Pink Moon is something else entirely). Happy listening.
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Comment #18 posted by FoM on October 05, 2004 at 16:20:04 PT
AgaetisByrjun
I checked out Bryter Layter and thought his music is very nice. Which one is his best CD and I'll put it in my wish list. Thanks.http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/ASIN/B000026FOA/ref=er_ra_acc_dp_m/202-3415449-0703056
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Comment #17 posted by FoM on October 05, 2004 at 14:06:37 PT
AgaetisByrjun
That was a really funny description. I quit smoking and went up to 150 pounds. I'm 5 feet 2. It took me years to lose weight and had all kinds of health problems during that time. After about 10 years I started smoking again and have been fairly healthy and happy. I lost over 40 pounds and being overweight was very hard on me. I feel better weighing the right weight. We all are going to die. No one gets out of here alive so I believe we need to live our lives as we want. I've heard of Donovan and will keep his music in mind. I just love Neil Young's music and it's hard for me to get into other musicians music but heck I'm not young anymore and I'm set in my ways I suppose. 
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Comment #16 posted by AgaetisByrjun on October 05, 2004 at 13:55:27 PT
FoM
Thanks. It's not as extreme as that other guy, but I still feel that I ought to quit. But every time I do, I feel like a bloated slug for weeks: I'm heavy-set but trim; every time I quit, my chin starts expanding for no clear reason. It actually looks pretty ridiculous; as I said, I'm trim and healthy except for the moon face that develops (like a little boy's head atop a normal body). Maybe I'm letting my image get in the way of my health, but it really does look ridiculous. Maybe I should grow a thick beard, LOL.On a completely unrelated note (this thread is becoming yesterday's news anyway), do you like Donovan or Nick Drake at all? They're not exactly Neil Young, but they really strike a chord with me. I ordered the new Donovan album (Beat Cafe) yesterday and it should be here soon. All the reviews have been good. I even got Pied Piper (his 2003 children's album) and enjoy that, haha... but it's like they say: a fan and his money are soon parted.Nick Drake's 'Bryter Layter' really helped me through serious depression a while back. Absolutely great stuff. If you ever get some spare cash and want to check out something new, I'd reccommend either that or 'Five Leaves Left'. Both are amazing and touching, and you don't have to be an Alice in Wonderland fan to really enjoy it (as you do with Donovan's work). A love for Blake or Wordsworth probably helps, but who doesn't love them? Sorry for derailing the thread, but I've been thinking of them lately.Well, I can blame Charles Dickens for making me start smoking, at least! I sure wouldn't be in the jam I'm in now if it weren't for Mr. Pickwick and his peer pressure. :)
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Comment #15 posted by FoM on October 05, 2004 at 09:58:26 PT
AgaetisByrjun 
I knew a man that smoked cigarettes all his life and he was in his 50s. His health was good but he thought he should quit smoking. He did and made everyones life miserable. He gained weight and was put on all kinds of drugs to help his blood pressure and his heart. I'm not saying that tobacco is good because it isn't but people that quit sometimes have more health problems then those who don't. I do not promote tobacco but I have seen this in more then one person and I'm sure others have too. PS: He started smoking again and his health became more stable. I don't understand why though.
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Comment #14 posted by AgaetisByrjun on October 05, 2004 at 09:50:09 PT
Off-topic, but...
Another quit bites the dust. I'm dipping again, after a month's cessation. It still amazes me that such a powerfully addictive substance can be legal. Anyone who's used tobacco knows that the government is full of crap. Pot is addictive? Give me a break.I started smoking, then switched to dip as a sort of harm reduction. I've quit 4-5 times, for a week to a month... but the damned shredded gunk still finds a way into my lip. Smoking is easy to quit. But this stuff... Jesus.U.S. Smokeless, you're going to be the death of me. And it pisses me off: each time I try to give it up, I'm sure that it's for good. I go through living hell for two days and get the beginnings of a double chin just from not sticking the gunk in my mouth. I've gone from two weeks of daily pot smoking to two weeks of total abstinence with no ill effects at all. But tobacco... that's addiction.Here I am, a slave of big tobacco... and there's the U.S. government, telling me that marijuana is an addictive and deadly drug while pushing death in a little tin can in every convenience store and gas station in the country. I'm mad at myself, I'm mad at the government... this really sucks. Sorry for the off-topic ranting, but I know I've set my bed, and now I'm lying in it.The worst part is that I'm really enjoying it.
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Comment #13 posted by BigDawg on October 05, 2004 at 08:23:03 PT
The gov't lies HURT
IO'm one of those people who saw all the propaganda from about 3rd grade on. My first encounter with an illegal substance was on the basketball court behind the school during summer break in Jr. High. I abstained, but observed. The only "harm" I could see was an increase in laughter. I immediately knew the gov't had lied.Of course... I figured they were lying about the other drugs too.That was a HARD lesson to learn.
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Comment #12 posted by E_Johnson on October 05, 2004 at 08:04:53 PT
These ads do not help children at all
These ads do not provide counseling or food or shelter or love or kindness or a consistent person on whom they may rely for emotional support.Those are the things kids need. They don't need the government telling their parents that potheads eat Christian babies. 
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Comment #11 posted by siege on October 05, 2004 at 07:52:18 PT
            GOVERNMENT'S LYING
Yesterday on the school bus a 10th grader lit a JOINT and was smoking it and the younger one's said that it would hurt him and he said NO! SO {{ 8 }}
7th graders tried it the grandson come in stoned to max.
I had to whit till he came down to talk to him. I told him that marijuana is a Medicine. And he said that the  anti-drug ads on the TV. that government is lying to people about marijuana AND IT DID NOT HURT ANYONE.////// I think I got through to him not to use it for FUN I hope .. THE DAMMED GOVERNMENT'S LYING. It makes it hard on the PARENTS.
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Comment #10 posted by Sam Adams on October 05, 2004 at 07:42:03 PT
Gov't WASTE
Just saw in the paper today that the federal deficit is nearing the $7.4 TRILLION limit set by Congress, so Bush is going to ask them to raise the ceiling. Why not? Break out the checkbook, live it up guys!! Have Newt Gingrich call in some hookers & throw it on the taxpayer's tab. It's only the future of our young people (in this case, anyone under age 50 or 60 who will live to see the gov't collapse when the baby boomers hit retirement).This month's entire issue of Nat'l Geographic is devoted to global warming - it's terrifying. The last 200 years were the time of mankind killing the living crap out of each other - the next 200 will be the time of "natural" disasters killing us en masse. It isn't pretty, and there's zero doubt about what's going to happen now.That's the tragic problem with our country - we're locked in this "us vs. them" Democrat or Republican thing. It's just a huge subterfuge, an Orwellian artificial construct to hide reality.  Gay marriage. Potheads in tiedyes. Killing as many Arabs as possible. Stem cells. They love to see us argue about these issues.The really important ones that affect everyday life are completely hidden, numero uno being LONG-TERM vs. SHORT-TERM. Right now, the ruling 1% is burning through our future faster than any generation in history.  Of course, number 2 on the "real issue" list would be Rich vs. Poor, the old stand-by.I live in Massachusetts - the anti-gay lobby here has pretty much admitted defeat - we've had full-on gay marriage for about 6 months now, and NO ONE CARES. It's been COMPLETELY forgotten. There is absolutely no difference from before.I often revert to that argument when discussing medical MJ with politicians & others - a few days after medical MJ passes into law, no one will ever think about it again.  A few thousand people will ease their pain knowing they're safe from the pigs, that's about it. The whole thing will disappear from public & media conscience within days of medical MJ being legalized.Do you think anyone in Vermont is still thinking about medical MJ right now? 
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Comment #9 posted by kaptinemo on October 05, 2004 at 07:30:32 PT:
"A Billion here, a Billion there,
- and pretty soon you're talking real money" - remark attributed to Senator Everett Dirksen.Yes, what could have been done with money given to these Beltway Banditos? How many schools, hospitals and roads built? How many school lunches? How many prescription meds for oldsters? Alternative energy programs so we don't have to invade p***-poor countries sitting on top of oil deposits and get innocent people and our own soldiers killed? It boggles the mind, it does.The leadership of every great civilization usually has one fatal flaw which drags everybody down with them. This one's problem with trying to legislate morality while committing immoral acts may be one such fatal flaw.
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Comment #8 posted by FoM on October 04, 2004 at 22:57:33 PT
EJ I Know You're Right
Yes I know that's true. I wish more parents would care more about their children. 
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Comment #7 posted by E_Johnson on October 04, 2004 at 22:49:41 PT
Not everyone has decent parents, FoM
Some kids don't have parents, some have parents that are worse than not having parents.
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Comment #6 posted by E_Johnson on October 04, 2004 at 22:47:51 PT
Potheads eat Christian babies
That's Walters' new ad campaign.
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Comment #5 posted by FoM on October 04, 2004 at 22:46:30 PT
My Opinion
Fear of upsetting my parents kept me from straying very far. All young kids push the limit but parents should be able to keep them in check. I didn't have any friends that would push their parents really hard. A little but not a lot. That's how it should work in my opinion.
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Comment #4 posted by E_Johnson on October 04, 2004 at 22:39:09 PT
In a way, these ads insult parents
I really can't believe that the crucial difference between a kid who ends up a heroin addict and a kid who doesn't is a talk with the parents about drugs.What about factors like dysfunction in the family, mental illness, domestic violence, homelessness, instability of residence?It's kind of an insult to parents to imply that good parenting doesn't matter as much as Drug War propaganda.
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Comment #3 posted by Hope on October 04, 2004 at 22:31:14 PT
Walters and ONDCP are robbing Americans blind
"He has made it clear in speeches that he plans to continue using the power of his office to defeat state drug-policy reform initiatives. And last year, the bill to reauthorize $1 billion in public money as part of the $2 billion five-year campaign was derailed in the Senate after the GOP leadership slipped vague language into the bill that could have allowed the ONDCP to target specific political candidates not in sync with White House drug policy." 
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Comment #2 posted by Hope on October 04, 2004 at 22:22:55 PT
The Emperor has no clothes....and a clipboard!
"the ONDCP plans to look for a new research firm to study and track parents and children who are exposed to the ads. In the case of parents, researchers will look for evidence that those who see the ads are more likely to have "the talk" with their children about the dangers of taking drugs."And exactly how do they plan to do that? Throw away a few billion dollars that could have been spent teaching children to read, then they can throw away a few more billion trying to find out why people won't tell their "researchers" the truth? It's all some sort of upper echelon welfare program.Aaarrggh.It makes me mad.I can tell them right now…for free.Parents have that talk with their children whether the government reminds them to or not. People lie to their “researchers” because they don’t want them on their back, stealing their wages, and complicating their lives…especially if they tell them the truth. Oh my…another government program. The “researchers” are just hoping to and will drum up another lovely stupid government program to interfere with our lives and steal even more of our wages…but of course pay for more “researchers”.Sheesh.
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Comment #1 posted by cloud7 on October 04, 2004 at 22:01:47 PT
...
"One ad shows stoned teenagers running down a kid on a bike."And they wonder why kids laugh at the ads? As soon as kids talk to anyone with any experience with pot or experience it themselves, it is immediately obvious what a laughable farce these ad companies have cooked up to satiate the delusional fantasies of a drug czar and his cohorts.
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