cannabisnews.com: Transcripts: Buchanan and Press - Keith Stroup Transcripts: Buchanan and Press - Keith Stroup Posted by CN Staff on May 02, 2003 at 17:07:12 PT Buchanan and Press Source: MSNBC BUCHANAN: And are our Canadian neighbors going to pot, I mean marijuana? We’ll debate but first let’s go to the MSNBC headlines with Christy Musumeci. BUCHANAN: I guess we start off here with our Jean Chretien. Do we have him here? No, we do not, OK. PRESS: We do. BUCHANAN: OK, let’s start off. Folks here’s the prime minister of Canada who’s going to introduce our subject tonight. Let’s listen. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) JEAN CHRETIEN, CANADIAN PRIME MINISTER: We will soon introduce legislation to decriminalize possession of small amounts of marijuana. Don’t start to smoke right away. (END VIDEO CLIP) BUCHANAN: That’s Prime Minister Jean Chretien, our northern neighbor. PRESS: Can’t you wait for the legislation to pass. BUCHANAN: We introduced our subject and what they’re doing in Canada folks is decriminalizing marijuana, which means you can smoke it without facing any legal penalties and there’s real concern this side of the border that it may be coming down here big time. Our guests are Dr. Andrea Barthwell who’s in the White House Office of National Drug Control Policy, and also Keith Stroup, the founder and president of NORML, the National Organization for the Reform of Marijuana Laws. You want to knock that cigarette out over there, Keith? KEITH STROUP, NAT. ORG. FOR REFORM OF MARIJUANA LAWS: You caught me. PRESS: We call those joints, Pat. BUCHANAN: All right, look, Keith-I know-we know what we mean. We know where you stand. We’ve argued with you for years. But as a practical matter you haven’t been able to convince the country to decriminalize and doesn’t the United States have a right to virtually tighten up its border much more dramatically? Because, look, if it’s going to be decriminalized in Canada, I think there’s going to be more and more of that stuff pouring into the United States of America, and quite frankly a majority of Americans don’t want it. They think it’s a killer drug for too many kids, causes accidents, and destroys lives. Let me correct you on the first premise that American don’t want that. According to the latest Times/CNN poll, 72 percent of the American public say a fine only for marijuana smoking, no arrest, no jail, no criminal record. That’s precisely what Canada is proposing to do. And, by the way, in the European Union, I think there are 21 countries the last time I checked. They keep adding them. Only four countries still arrest marijuana smokers. So, if decriminalizing marijuana causes such a problem why haven’t we seen it in Mississippi, or North Carolina, or Maine, or Minnesota, or Ohio, or Colorado, or all the other states in the U.S. where they have the exact same policy? That’s just a bogus allegation. PRESS: I want to ask you, Dr. Barthell, thanks for coming in tonight, on that point. Pat, the sky is always falling when you talk marijuana with Pat Buchanan but realistically this is going to have a zero impact in the United States, isn’t it, as Keith said? Many states have sort of similar laws and also we don’t get our stuff from Canada. You can get better stuff, believe me, from Hawaii, northern California, Mexico. BUCHANAN: San Francisco. Tell us where in San Francisco, Bill. PRESS: I could take you to a couple of plantations. DR. ANDREA BARTHWELL, W.H. OFFICE OF DRUG CONTROL POLICY: A lot of our stuff comes from Canada and we’re afraid that more will when this happens. We know that drug availability is directly linked to experimentation. This is not an issue of a few 35-year-olds who are living in their mother’s basement still smoking marijuana. This is an issue of youth drug use and of pediatric illness that’s initiated between nine and 14, and we know that a kid who initiates marijuana use before the age of 17 is nine times more likely across their life to become an addict. BUCHANAN: Let me just first, I want (unintelligible). When I was out in Iowa campaigning everybody was saying, you know, this is a harmless thing. People use it. So what? STROUP: Sure. BUCHANAN: I went to one of these places, these little kid centers where they had all the kids, you know, 2-year-old tots of mothers who had used drugs, were on use, and I was told that five percent of the children born in Iowa are born with permanent damage from drug use by their mothers. And so, I mean... STROUP: But, Pat... BUCHANAN: Keith this is not a joke. As the doctor says, I mean you know we laugh about it and we kid about it and potheads but it’s destroying lives, isn’t it? STROUP: Whoa, whoa, whoa. No, the allegation is serious but there is no foundation to it. There’s no problem with mothers who have children if they smoke marijuana. There’s no smaller birth weight. It’s not like alcohol, so let’s back off that. Also, Dr. Barthwell, I have... BARTHWELL: (Unintelligible). STROUP: I have to (unintelligible) here. There have been about five studies done by the U.S. government to try to measure drug use patterns in states that have stopped arresting smokers in this country, just what Canada’s talking about doing, compared to their neighbor states where they still arrest smokers. There’s not one iota of difference. There’s not any increase in usage. So, it’s about time you guys quit doing that sky is falling stuff. BARTHWELL: The evidence worldwide is compelling. Two times the use among youth in Alaska when they decriminalized. It was switched back when parents and community coalitions got organized. STROUP: It wasn’t switched back by the way. BARTHWELL: Three times more use among 18 to 25-year-olds in the Netherlands when they opened up the coffee houses. STROUP: But still half of the use in this country. BARTHWELL: And four times the rate of addiction for crack and cocaine use in twin pairs when the twins initiate during adolescence. The evidence is compelling worldwide. No sensible, reasonable, responsible adult wants more drugs available. PRESS: But wait a minute doctor. I have to tell you for most of my adult life since I smoked my first joint, which I’ll readily admit, I’ve heard this bogus argument that trying marijuana or experimenting with marijuana is going to lead to serious drug use. I mean 30, 40 years later, aren’t you finally just willing to admit you’re wrong? BARTHWELL: No, no. The evidence is even more compelling. Back when NORMAL really got its start there was an increase in the rates of initiation and use among youth and it’s been a serious commitment on the part of responsible... (CROSSTALK) STROUP: Wait a minute, 50 percent of all high school seniors have smoked marijuana under your program. PRESS: Let her respond. STROUP: I’m sorry, Pat. BUCHANAN: Let me ask you this. Look, I mean you’ve been-you’ve argued the case. You’ve done it for 20 years or so. You’ve been on television and stuff but you really have not persuaded the American people and doesn’t it stand to reason. STROUP: Oh. BUCHANAN: Just like, look, I didn’t-you know I didn’t use drugs but we started drinking beer when we were 14, 15 years old, and you’re right into hard liquor when you’re 16 years old. It is an introduction, is it not? Is not marijuana an introduction to a drug culture which is utterly ruinous for young people? STROUP: No. BUCHANAN: No? STROUP: The first drug used by almost every American is either alcohol or tobacco and they actually use it when they’re underage so it’s illegal, but nobody ever claims alcohol and tobacco lead to crack cocaine, so why is it you claim marijuana does? BARTHWELL: Before I came into this office I was a doctor in Chicago. I saw hundreds of thousands of addicts and I interviewed many of them. I only met three people in my career who had started with something other than marijuana. These are people going into methadone treatment programs, in to residential treatment for crack cocaine. This is... STROUP: Doctor, we don’t usually base our drug policies on those who fail. We usually base them on something more powerful than that. BARTHWELL: We base our drug policies today on the science. STROUP: Well, you base your drug policies on prohibition. BARTHWELL: We base our policies on science. PRESS: But here’s the thing if I just-almost out of time. Here’s the key thing. By doing what they’re doing in Canada, they’re saying we’ll write basically a parking ticket if we find you with a... STROUP: Yes. PRESS: ...small amount of marijuana that’s not enough to sell. Aren’t you really freeing up the courts, freeing up the police departments, freeing up the prisons for more serious crime and getting cops on what they ought to be doing? BARTHWELL: Fewer than one percent of people in jails and prisons are there because of marijuana use as their most serious crime. PRESS: However... BARTHWELL: And the drug courts have been a terrific movement in this country to free up the courts. We’re talking about responsible policy... STROUP: Doctor... BARTHWELL: ...to enable people to get into treatment to deal with this. PRESS: Quick last word. STROUP: All right. You’re saying only a few marijuana smokers end up in prison. What we’re saying is 724,000 Americans were arrested last year for smoking marijuana, something which myself and tens of millions of Americans do responsibly. Stop it. PRESS: All right, big debate, great debate. Thank you both for coming in, Dr. Barthwell, Keith Stroup.Snipped:Complete Show Transcripts: http://www.msnbc.com/news/908487.asp?cp1=1Source: MSNBC (US Web)Program: Buchanan and PressHosts: Bill Press and Pat BuchananShow Date: May 1, 2003Copyright: 2003 MSNBCContact: buchananandpress msnbc.com Website: http://www.msnbc.com/news/BUCHANANPRESS_Front.aspRelated Articles & Web Site:NORMLhttp://www.norml.org/Commentary: Canada Revisiting Marijuana http://cannabisnews.com/news/thread16120.shtmlChretien To Propose Bill on Marijuanahttp://cannabisnews.com/news/thread16116.shtmlChrétien Ready To Ease Pot Possession Law http://cannabisnews.com/news/thread16113.shtmlPM Renews Promise To Ease Pot Possession Laws http://cannabisnews.com/news/thread16108.shtml Home Comment Email Register Recent Comments Help Comment #11 posted by FoM on May 03, 2003 at 10:26:20 PT Celaya I love a message board system for the reasons you said. I never thought why I liked commenting like this but you can do other things and think about a response and you don't have that ability with a live chat. I get tired of typing in a chat. I'm not a fast typer and my thoughts are gone before I even get it typed. We talk and laugh here on CNews so posting here is fine. [ Post Comment ] Comment #10 posted by The GCW on May 03, 2003 at 06:11:10 PT Stroup's doin' it. And showing everyone else how...It still seems elementary that if We stop prohibitionists from refering to cannabis as "drug", We expose a lot and We force people to mentally separate the plant from the drug.Cannabis is plant, herb, medicine, green seed bearing plant, kaneh bosm, sweet smelling incense, and many things, but it is not mentioned as drug in the Bible.They spew out the word drug and put H, crack and other bad juju in the same common denominator as cannabis which is UNTRUE & INNACURATE. Marijuana & drug were picked by prohibitionists for the negative connotation they deliver, period. The pro should be disallowed to refer to cannabis as drug, as it is of Our Creator the Ecologician, it is pure and clean. None of the other substances thought of in the "drug" catagory, are not pure and clean.We don't refer to cig and booze addicts as drug addicts and those substances are man made as they are processed.So. Point out to BUCHANAN: if America wants to cage drug users, that is a different point, on decriminalizing cannabis in Cannada, We are talking about ending the practice of caging and criminalizing people that wish to use a plant, NOT A DRUG. [ Post Comment ] Comment #9 posted by Celaya on May 03, 2003 at 00:13:10 PT FoM Thanks for the link! I've bookmarked it. I'm generally more comfortable with message boards though. They give you time to think. Plus, lots of family distractions. I'm about pooped out for tonight. I'll look for you tomorrow. BTW, I still post at the NYT Forum, but under the name, john.thomas.Great to see you too! Later... [ Post Comment ] Comment #8 posted by FoM on May 02, 2003 at 23:57:45 PT Celaya That is great finishing your CD and keeping up the good fight. We have a chat room. Here's the link. http://www.cannabisnews.com/chat/If you want to talk just say so and we can chat away! I am done for the day. I'm tired. Some of my most memorable talks were back on the Political Board. It really is good to see you! [ Post Comment ] Comment #7 posted by Celaya on May 02, 2003 at 23:44:14 PT FoM Yes, indeed. Life is for learning! The Internet is such a huge part of life, it's hard to imagine it was new just a few years ago! - No. I won't be able to attend a march tomorrow. I now live so far out in the sticks, I'm a hard days drive from any march site. There in spirit, though!Yes. I just finished my first CD of my songs! It only took me 30 years! It's got "What Have They Done?", some of my tunes going back to the early eighties, and a tribute to Canada, called "Green Grow the Flowers." I'm not sure what I'm going to do with it, except send it to friends. Not much call for new, 50-year-old rock stars 8^) It feels good to have it done for posterity, though. --- No such thing as too many questions among friends! -- Yes, that board was a great one. And you taught me to perservere! Is there a particular spot here where you like to converse now? [ Post Comment ] Comment #6 posted by FoM on May 02, 2003 at 23:15:43 PT Celaya I was just looking at some of our old post on Cann.com. We've learned a lot along the way haven't we? Are you going to a March tomorrow? Are you still doing music? I know I ask too many questions but we had really good times on the political board years ago. You taught me to think. Thanks for understanding about our cyber gremlins. Oh they can be so annoying! LOL! [ Post Comment ] Comment #5 posted by Celaya on May 02, 2003 at 23:05:13 PT FoM Thanks! It's great to see you're going stronger than ever! No problem on the registration thing. The cyber god loves to send us these little glitches. [ Post Comment ] Comment #4 posted by FoM on May 02, 2003 at 22:57:23 PT Celaya It sure is good to see you! I'm sorry about the registration problem. Matt contacted me and I told him I had no idea why you couldn't post. I remember the frog in the water you told me about a few years back to this day. [ Post Comment ] Comment #3 posted by Celaya on May 02, 2003 at 22:54:26 PT Stroup by a knockout! Thanks for the transcript! I saw (and recorded) the show, but it's great to have the words in print!Stroup chewed up the lies and spat them out! - Bearding the lion in his own den!CONGRATULATIONS KEITH! [ Post Comment ] Comment #2 posted by FoM on May 02, 2003 at 21:55:33 PT i420 They never give a person enough time to make a point in the USA. I watched Pot-TV and the news lady that interviewed David Malmo-Levine took time and really asked questions and gave him the time to answer before she asked another question. That is how it should be but here it doesn't happen that way. It keeps the guest on edge and can break their train of thought so the public doesn't have a chance to get it. That's sad. [ Post Comment ] Comment #1 posted by i420 on May 02, 2003 at 21:06:47 PT YaYaYa Big debate , great debate???? This was a joke and Buchanon was out of bounds when he said... BUCHANAN: We introduced our subject and what they’re doing in Canada folks is decriminalizing marijuana, which means you can smoke it without facing any legal penalties and there’s real concern this side of the border that it may be coming down here big time. Shows his stupidity right there. No legal penalties???Since when is a fine not a legal penalty????MORON.And about Bafwell.... BUCHANAN: Let me ask you this. Look, I mean you’ve been-you’ve argued the case. You’ve done it for 20 years or so. You’ve been on television and stuff but you really have not persuaded the American people and doesn’t it stand to reason.Ok when was the last time I read a real article featuring STROUP??? NEVER. The press ain't printing jack in local papers and most stuff on tv is vague and incomplete coverage and usually aired when most people are at work or in bed asleep. [ Post Comment ] Post Comment