cannabisnews.com: Snuffing Out Freedom





Snuffing Out Freedom
Posted by CN Staff on November 06, 2002 at 13:43:42 PT
By Jacob Sullum
Source: Reason Magazine
By a margin of more than two to one, Floridians voted on Tuesday to ban smoking in almost all indoor workplaces. The only exceptions are tobacco shops, hotel rooms, "stand-alone bars" (i.e., bars that are not located in restaurants), and private residences (provided they are not being used "to provide child care, adult care, or health care"). This is one of the strictest smoking bans in the country, although it does not go quite as far as California's, which covers bars as well as restaurants--the approach favored by New York City Mayor Michael Bloomberg.
In today's New York Times, the eponymous Manhattan restaurateur Elaine Kaufman makes the case for a less coercive solution: "We'd put a sign out front, letting people know we're a smoking establishment. And here's a grown-up idea: let people make their own decision about whether to enter. As far as the employees go, it would be up to them, too. Since not all restaurants will choose to be smoking establishments, the work force will have other options."But Floridians do not care for options; like spoiled children, they want things their way all the time. They believe they have a right to demand "a smoke-free environment" everywhere they go, even on other people's property. In principle, this is no different from insisting on "a meat-free environment" in a steakhouse or "a music-free environment" in a noisy bar. Instead of expressing their preferences as consumers and employees in the marketplace, which would lead to a diversity of choices, smoke banners insist on total hegemony, imposing their one best way on everyone. In a state where about 22 percent of adults smoke, only 30 percent of the electorate voted against the smoking ban. Let's assume smokers did not go to the polls in disproportionate numbers to oppose the initiative, and let's forget about the nonsmokers in the hospitality industry who had an economic interest in defeating it. The results still suggest that fewer than one in 10 Floridians is prepared to defend property rights as a matter of principle.That disheartening reality illustrates one of the perils of ballot initiatives, which are often portrayed as a way to avoid gridlocked legislatures and deliver what the people really want. Sometimes what the people really want is to lord it over a recalcitrant minority that is exercising its rights in a way that irks them. In such cases, the difficulty of getting laws passed in a legislature pressured by "special interests" acts as a check on the tyranny of the majority. Yet sometimes voters are more tolerant than politicians. Although polls consistently find that most Americans think patients who can benefit from marijuana should be able to use it without fear of arrest, politicians are afraid to endorse the idea. That instinct may be politically prudent, assuming that voters who support medical access do not feel as strongly about the issue as voters who rebel at the idea that marijuana could be good for anything. Pot-phobic voters may be more likely to hold a candidate's position on medical marijuana against him. But when medical marijuana is presented on its own, as it has been in eight states and the District of Columbia, it wins handily. That does not mean voters support access to marijuana for recreational purposes. In Arizona and Nevada, where voters had already approved medical use of cannabis, they voted against broader decriminalization initiatives on Tuesday's ballot. More than 60 percent of voters opposed the Nevada initiative, which would have allowed licensed sales and possession of up to three ounces by adults. Apparently Nevadans were not reassured by the measure's prohibition of marijuana consumption outside the home. Perhaps the initiative's backers would have had more luck if they had presented it as a smoking ban. Jacob Sullum, a Reason senior editor, is the author of a book on the morality of drug use, forthcoming in May from Tarcher/Putnam. Note: Ballot initiatives as instruments of tyranny.Source: Reason Magazine (US)Author: Jacob SullumPublished: November 6, 2002Copyright: 2002 The Reason FoundationContact: letters reason.comWebsite: http://www.reason.com/ Related Articles:Voters Stay Cautious on Ballot Measureshttp://cannabisnews.com/news/thread14678.shtml Taking the Initiative - Jacob Sullumhttp://cannabisnews.com/news/thread14634.shtml
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Comment #19 posted by DANA on November 09, 2002 at 00:18:09 PT
..speakin' of 'snuffing out freedom'....
Let's look at a gem from usnewswire..an innocent .normal article,,,,,,nope,,nothing weird about this.:Cities Call for Prompt Post-Election Action on Hometown Security
To: National Desk
Contact: John Pionke, 202-626-3051, or Mike Reinemer,
202-626-3003, both of the National League of CitiesWASHINGTON, Nov. 8 /U.S Newswire/ -- The National League of
Cities (NLC) today urged President Bush and Congress to make
hometown security the top priority for Congress when it returns to
complete its business. NLC represents 18,000 American cities of all
sizes.In a letter to the President and members of Congress, NLC
President Karen Anderson wrote, "The longer that needed federal
investments in homeland security are postponed, the more hometown
security is compromised." Anderson urged the President and Congress
to "quickly settle your differences and finalize legislation to
authorize the new Department of Homeland Security and appropriate
the $3.5 billion in new funding promised to the nation's first
responders.""Homeland security is the top priority for the nation's cities.
As each day goes by, our sense of urgency grows as our needs for
help with planning, training, staffing, and equipment go unmet. For
14 months, cities have stretched their very limited resources to
meet the multiple new challenges of terrorism."Anderson, who is mayor of Minnetonka, Minn., also reiterated
NLC's call for Congress and the President to restore the $2.5
billion in homeland security funding contained in the 2002
supplemental appropriation and ensure that the Transportation
Security Administration's 2003 appropriation allows the agency to
reimburse cities approximately $22 million per month for the loan
of their law enforcement personnel to the nation's 429 commercial
airports.Since September 11, 2001, municipalities have spent about $3
billion of their own funds on staffing, equipment, guarding
airports, and performing other homeland security duties in addition
to existing public safety and other ongoing responsibilities.Through the network of 18,000 cities and towns represented by
the organization, the National League of Cities is urging cities to
remind their members of Congress that local government is a
critical component of homeland security and must receive
appropriate information and funding from the federal government to
plan and prepare for emergencies.In her letter, Anderson also expressed hope for continuing good
working relations between NLC and the White House. In October,
Homeland Security Director Tom Ridge appointed Anderson to the new
State and Local Senior Advisory Committee to the President's
Homeland Security Advisory Council.The National League of Cities, the voice of America's
communities, is the nation's oldest and largest organization for
municipalities. With a direct membership of 1,800 cities, towns,
and villages of all sizes as well as 49 state municipal
associations, NLC serves as a resource and advocate for 18,000 U.S.
municipalities that are home to 225 million Americans. Visit
http://www.nlc.org........Obviously these cities are pissed,and they've had enough of the slow,and reckless way that homeland security has been happening!..sure am glad that the NLC is there to speak out for all of us who are concerned about this shit! The NLC are a voice of the voiceless!,,an angel of mercy in the dark night of bad and wrong ideas,,and people who do not use their minds in the correct manner because they have been influenced by the liberal media,and all the liberal muckrackers who continue to succeed in destroying this country by dominating the liberal media,with their liberal agenda.........................................need I say more?...............perhaps,,,but you're gonna hafta wait till later................d 
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Comment #18 posted by DANA on November 08, 2002 at 23:45:00 PT
..P.S...proofreading is not that bad....
..I should do it more often!
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Comment #17 posted by DANA on November 08, 2002 at 23:41:40 PT
...am I a congressman?...Of course!..
...I remember 3 or 4 years ago,when I first met you here CS,,,and I asked if you were really a congressman,,, you replied with something like,,"of course I'm a congressman",,....well,,I'm glad you took the bait,,Hook line and Sinker!.... I would become a republican sooner than I would become a tobacco smokeragain!...My concern is for YOU.... I hate the though of me becoming the bitch who nags anyone about smoking,,the classic hypocritical loudmouth who all of a sudden feels justified to launch some frenziee,"holier than thou",crusade to help reform those who are still under the chronic sperlls of the tobacco monkey....I will NEVER smoke tobacco again,,,and I appreciate your concern,,,but your energies would b3e much more appropriatly used in the persual of your own grotesque problem/habit!.....I have never actually met you CS,,but I love you.....I'm happy that I successfully fooled you......Best Wishes....d....(ddd)....PS,,,it would seem as if you are actually a 'Congresswoman".(???)...(cervical radiuectomy),,or maybe men have a cervix that they dont know about yet?....Doc Russo is dsown here in rainy SoCal...
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Comment #16 posted by CongressmanSuet on November 08, 2002 at 01:30:38 PT
BTW...
 You can still smoke in the cafeteria section in Walmart, Weston, West Virginia. And at the car dealerships, the convience stores, and probably the Court house, I cant say for sure, Im always kept my business there short....
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Comment #15 posted by CongressmanSuet on November 08, 2002 at 00:16:38 PT
No way, you idiot!....
 If you have been able to be tobacco free for any period of time, you should not start again. I had a cervical radiuectomy[help, doc russo] 3 weeks ago and had no butts for 2 days. First day, no problem, probably the morphine. Second day, I started getting itchy, and tried to release myself before my poor, nursing school, 40 hour a week working wife picked me up, just so I could have a cig. When I had my first cig in 2 days, the buzz was INCREDIBLE!. When you smoke daily you dont realize how much of an effect Nic. has on you. This industry is worse than the purveyors of death the local liquor store is. Im surprised that anyone who is in its clutches can ever get out. DONT START AGAIN DANA. Not just health, think of the money, dirt, etc...and remember, I use inhalers and a nebulizer, when I cant get Cannabis.
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Comment #14 posted by DANA on November 07, 2002 at 02:43:10 PT
......once again...
....CongressmanSuet has put an end to my dark mood...I hope the Congressman gets my email.,,I may have the wrong address..I was lucky,......I smoked cigs for 30 years,,hardcore,,, Newport 100s,and Old Golds.....Quitting would have been nearly impossible..I would try to begin a serious attempt to quit by cutting down to 2 or 3 smokes a day,,but then something f***ed would happen in my life,and I would abort my plan,using the justification that my sanity was at risk,,and other complex justificatory excuses.........BUT,,,when I got this infection in my left lung,and I was near death,,,,and I laid on my bed for two weeks,unable to even get enough air into my lungs to stay alive!..I had no insurance,and I could barely afford a doctor,,,I had to get some cheap doctor to write me a prescription for one of them oxygen tanks,with the plastic tubes that go around your ears,and into your nose...that helped,but I was still starved for air.Even with the oxygen on full blast.I still could not get enough air..I was fixin' to DIE! ..I was going through my belongings,,,getting rid of any embarassing or incriminating items,,,I made a sort of a will,,leaving my guitars,and musical equipment to sad but lucky friends....in the last few days,I didnt dare let myself fall asleep,because I knew I would not wake up...anyway,after going through that,and a $150.000 hospital visit..I am no longer a smoker..I have had dreams,where I started smoking again,,and I the cigarettes tasted delicious..but I'll never forget,gasping for air,,,,not being able to breath in enough to live....Anyway,,,I'm lucky I'm alive,and lucky I dont smoke anymore.I always knew that smoking was a type of slow suicide.,,but the habit is so insidious,it over rides reason...It's idiotic hedonism.As far as the smoke free laws,,they are absurd!..just living in Los Angeles,is the equivilent of smoking a half pack a day...How bout a ban on deisel engines?They remain exempt from pollution laws,yet they are huge polluters.Bottom line:..Why hassle with quitting..the world could end tomorrow,and then you would have missed out on the rich,hedonistic enjoyment of tobacco pleasure,,and subjected yourself to the stress and strain of withdrawal..
..Quitting is for wimps!...I think maybe I'll start again..They taste good,,and I like them.,,and what the heck,, they fixed me right up in the hospital..It was kinda uncomfortable to have a third of my left lung removed,,but I feel pretty good now......and if the world ends soon,I will kick myself in the ass for not taking full advantage of the tobacco enjoyment that is legally availiable to me.If you wanna enjoy smoking..without these new smoking laws,,.move to Nevada..yup,,I went to Reno a few years ago,and they still have ashtrays on the tables at restaraunts...something that you never see in California nowdays.
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Comment #13 posted by CongressmanSuet on November 06, 2002 at 21:43:21 PT:
Smoking bans....
    Where were these people back when we had Doctors doing advertisements, claiming that one brand was medically better than the other? I am really at a loss for words at this point, with what happened yesterday and last year, if someone had said to me 3 years ago that we would be in the position we are in I would have said they were nuts! But here we are. I have been smoking for over 30 years, but being young and invincible when I first started[and with smoking parents and relatives as positive role models] I was oblivious to the health ramifications. Now, 30 years later and hoplessly hooked, AND dying alittle bit more every day because of it, all of a sudden I am being told "oops, sorry, we were wrong, it really isnt GOOD for you" so now we will just terminate your rights. The tobacco companies dont really seem so concerned, they have a whole big world of third world countries to hook now, and with the profit margins they have enjoyed all along, well, look at all the 2 for 1 giveways, all the buy one get one free offers, and they still make humongous profits. I went from a Marlboro Man to a "whats the deal of the day" man. Out lawing bars and restaurants from having smoking sections will most assurededly put many people teetering on the edge of bankrupcy over the edge. I realize what a horrible habit smoking is, how really dirty and despicable it is, but these new laws will not deter me from smoking, just make it more of a hassle. If the threat of death[Im down to 53% lung capacity] hasnt stopped me from smoking, what will these new laws do to stop me? I know, its "for the children". Right now Im so confused as to what has happened to America, how we have been fooled and almost seem to revel in it, what you are seeing right now is a return to 1930s Germany, all with the same endorsements from big business now that were seen then. What happened to compassion? What happened to "Love one another", between watching what our gov. has done for us, and what the people who represent my business are all about, my isolation is becoming complete. I sometimes feel like I am the only person who has any idea of what is really going on. And my Doctor isnt helping by trying to convince me to go on Zoloft, and telling me he believes it should be in our drinking water...Im rambling, sorry, but these last few years have changed my life so much I feel, like many here, quite overwhelmed.....I can remember the MANY references to Orwell's classic 1984 here, and saying to myself, such alarmists, well, what has happened makes Orwell's work seem almost benign, like we can move on from Orwell, and start looking at "Clockwork Orange" as our new path....
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Comment #12 posted by Sam Adams on November 06, 2002 at 16:49:47 PT
no pressure FOM
I personally like a Marlboro Red after a big meal but I never smoked enough to get hooked. The only way I can relate is Diet Coke. It sounds stupid, but I was up to 5 a day and could not quit, and when I finally did I had relapses for 2-3 years. There's something in there beside caffeine that made me into a slave. And there's no way all that phosphoric acid is good for your body.
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Comment #11 posted by FoM on November 06, 2002 at 16:43:44 PT
Sam
Thanks! I'll give it some thought but now sure isn't the time. Maybe in the near future. When we quit before we planned when we would quit and geared towards that day and it worked.We will do it again. That we both know.
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Comment #10 posted by DdC on November 06, 2002 at 16:20:59 PT
What's for Dinner? More Red Herrings!
No one mentions the chemical killers in cigarettes, not in ganja. Will they remove them, or at least list them on the package as the Twinkies do? Maybe the chemicals harm the body when you set them on fire and suck deeply. Organic tobacco hasn't the diseases associated with it as do the fascist brands. Coincidence? Or that cannabis can clean the lungs of pollutants, act as an expectorant, when not banned. Fluoridities blindly vote to create another prohibition, to profit on. Raise the taxes so the poor go to generic cigarettes with even more chemicals. Fossil fools and Alkie Pharmaceutical D.E.A.th wishers to lead us into the promised land. While Bush reaps millions serving food to the prisoners he imports. While more Gulf wars pay for Fascist gatherings selling Liberty to those with tickets. Ganja patients must die as deterrents. The WoD warriors think they won, when they've really only identified themselves as the racist bastards they are. Remember them next election. Set em up and knock em down like the nazi bowling pins they are...We ain't going nowhere. Till they pry my cold dead fingers from my spliff, no relief for the wicked Bushit idiots. The battle is on to rid this world of Bush D.E.A.th wishers once and for all!Peace, Love and Liberty...DdCOrganic Cannabis/Tobacco vs Chemical Cigarettes
http://pub3.ezboard.com/fendingcannabisprohibitionwhyitstimetolegalize.showMessage?topicID=310.topican email from the past...Hey, what if you owned a world of mindless people? Do you think Americans (Christians) have the capability of even one origional thought of there own? Forget it. All are mindless followers without a will of there own. We live in a world of
mindless behavioural robots. Ask any 'Christian' what S/he thinks outside of the Bible on there own and you get a big old DUH! No personal brain of there own. Mindless, Dud's as there called in the service. Failed to ignite at birth. The vast majority must be told what they think. No thinking
capacity of there own exist at all in these beings. they run on pre imprinted behavioral patterns to the day they die. I apperchate your post and don't get me wrong but You fail to realise your living in a zoo of Zombies. The 'surface' mind
shared by all these common minded bi-peds reduces them to 'kept anminals' and they actually believe it's better to let others think for them than to think for themselves. Your frustration is understandable but I see you seem to think your dealing with a Intellegent rational race of beings, No, no. it appears that way on the outside but underthe surface there is no personal consciousness or mind in any one of these beings know unto you as 'christians' Mindless followers without any personal mind of there own at all. You probelby don't know what I'm talking about. the vast majority of the malfunctioning beings are externalised consciousness's and can only look out to others they are told know something for opinions they can call there own. Like a hive of bees or a school of fish they all share there ignorance in common and regonise each other by it in the common base level consciousness shared by these types. The 'head' of this mindless body of malfunctioning beings is very jelious and will not tolarate any 'wakeing up' by indiviual bottom feeders like you or I. You seem to think there is somewhere a will to to a good thing for the mindless masses. Maby you want to, but the 'New Kings' of the earth do not share this feeling at all. No one wants to look at the mindless helplessness of the masses to think for themselves but there it is right outside your door. No man is a 'Authority' in his own right. You must be 'blessed' by the beast before you can be 'authority' God does not appoint anyone on earth only the beast does and those they do appoint must display mindless subjective subserviant personalitys. anyone displaying authourity of there own instantly become 'crimminal' without a licence or permission from higher authourity. Pot as Tim Leary pointed out accesses the fith tunnel circuit and causes higher thought this is not at all desired by the 'New Kings' of the earth they want and accept only sub serveinent personaliys programmed to follow. Figure it out your living in a mindless world and pot promotes thinking and fith tunnel circuit experenceing. This will never do. Today.Mindless...
http://pub3.ezboard.com/fendingcannabisprohibitionstuff.showMessage?topicID=107.topicGive us this day our daily rant...
http://pub3.ezboard.com/fendingcannabisprohibitionstuff.showMessage?topicID=85.topic
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Comment #9 posted by Sam Adams on November 06, 2002 at 16:16:28 PT
MikeEE...
Don't you mean voting against "old freedoms"? Freedom to use ALL plants was taken away back in the 20's.FOM, Can I suggest getting a big bag of nicorette and a huge bag of herb and locking yourself in for a week? Maybe it would work?
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Comment #8 posted by FoM on November 06, 2002 at 16:03:29 PT
canaman 
I know I was an ex smoker too. For 13 years! Don't ever start smoking again. I dread quitting but we will in the future. I don't like being grumpy and I want to eat and I gain weight and then I have to go on a diet and I'm miserable. Oh the cycle of dependency! LOL!
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Comment #7 posted by MikeEEEEE on November 06, 2002 at 15:58:32 PT
Freedom fades
It's difficult to watch freedom fade.It's scarey to watch people vote when they're voting to take their freedoms away.It's stupid to watch people vote No to new freedoms. 
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Comment #6 posted by canaman on November 06, 2002 at 15:57:41 PT
FoM....It's a good thing you live in the country
or we might have to call the cops on you!!!!Just kidding...I'm bad because I'm ex-tabacco smoker and everybody knows they're the worst! ;-)
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Comment #5 posted by p4me on November 06, 2002 at 15:26:39 PT
Put them in jail and take their houses
Let's show some tough love and make violation of the law a felony. Let's get out there and lock some people up and buy the lawyers some new cars and let's be sure and seize their property so we can hold down the cost of the police state.When the recession first hit around here in the firsst part of 2001 people started a wave of drive-offs at the gas stations. they enacted laws that could get your license taken away but I am not sure if they made it a felony. Now with the the oil men looking after the oil men it has to be a felony somewhere. We have a well lubricated injustice system for taking people's property that is not calculated into cruel or unusual punishment. I guess when the big three oil companies figure they can force prices to $2 a gallon we will see them take people's cars after they take them backto the station and pump all the gas out.Let's build a police state our kids can be proud of and let's have the media pump up the idea so everyone will be happy when we get all situated after the Constitution is officially shreded.1
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Comment #4 posted by Sam Adams on November 06, 2002 at 15:16:03 PT
He's right
I support the freedom of someone being able to open a gathering place where people can smoke cigarettes. If people are so damn concerned about smoke, why don't they ban diesel buses? They've been proved to sicken and kill thousands per year, many of them children.Will a loud music ban in the workplace follow? Let the free market determine if bars become smoke free. These bans further increase the power of the government over peoples' everyday lives. They also enhance the general attitude that the government should control individual behavior that people don't like.I've often written here before about this, wondering which trend will prevail: the world-wide trend of reforming marijuana laws, or the trend of an increasingly selfish, intolerant United States? Most people live out in suburbs, insulated from exposure to each other. It's easy to screw over other people from high up in your McMansion castle.I'm beginning to think that we'll NEVER see complete cannabis legalizations through ballot referendum.  Why? Take a look at the Nevada result. Only 39% voted for legalization. The recent Time poll showed that 47% of Americans have tried cannabis. That means that many people that have smoked it are still voting against legalization.Regular cannabis users will never constitute a majority in the US. Once someone stops smoking cannabis, the behavior becomes offensive again. Not only that, they probably envy younger people that can still have fun with it. And most voters are too stupid to realize that their tax money is being wasted, or that cops aren't working on real crime (e.g., the sniper's fingerprints found at an Alambama murder were ignored by LEOs who were, basically, too lazy to run them through the national computers. A couple of poor white trash people being shot just wasn't that big a deal) 
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Comment #3 posted by krutch on November 06, 2002 at 15:13:20 PT:
I Also Smoke Cigarettes
I don't mind the Florida law but I think it should allow for smoking sections with door access and a ventilation system. If a business wants to spend the money to set this up they should be allowed to do so. I detest any smoke when I am eating, so you would not find me in the smoking section. If I want a cigarette I go outside.
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Comment #2 posted by FoM on November 06, 2002 at 14:28:31 PT
Nasarius
I smoke unfortunately but I don't think I have the right to smoke around people who don't smoke. That's just being considerate. I don't know any places around where I live that a person can smoke in a public restaurant. 
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Comment #1 posted by Nasarius on November 06, 2002 at 14:22:40 PT
What about...
my freedom to not inhale carcinogenic smoke just because some other person is a tobacco addict?
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