cannabisnews.com: English Pot Smokers' Pub May Prove a Model





English Pot Smokers' Pub May Prove a Model
Posted by FoM on November 21, 2001 at 22:34:48 PT
By Sarah Lyall
Source: New York Times
Until the Dutch Experience cafe opened here earlier this fall, providing marijuana by the bag instead of beer by the pint, Stockport never loomed particularly large in the greater British imagination."I read in the newspaper that the only thing Stockport is famous for is the hat museum," said Darren Ince, 32, a retail manager, on his way to secure a joint or two at the cafe recently. "I didn't know we were even famous for that."
All that changed this fall, when the cafe opened its doors, let the distinctive smoke waft out and instantly turned this unremarkable suburb of Manchester into a battleground for Britain's growing pot smokers' rights movement.The Dutch Experience, modeled on the pot-purveying coffee shops of marijuana-friendly Amsterdam, may well prove to be the thin end of the wedge in Britain, where the government is signaling that it might relax laws on the use of soft drugs in the name of creating a workable drug policy.British drug laws are strict, and the police spend an inordinate amount of time dealing with minor drug offenses, the government says. Sixty-five percent of the 120,000 drug- related arrests in Britain last year were for possession of marijuana.Saying the police should direct their efforts at eradicating hard drugs like heroin and LSD, Home Secretary David Blunkett last month proposed downgrading marijuana to a Class C drug, from its current Class B status. That would make possession of pot no longer an arrestable offense. A pilot project in Brixton, a drug- infested neighborhood in south London where police officers spent six months focusing on hard drugs instead of marijuana, has proved effective, the police say.But Mr. Blunkett's proposals have not yet taken effect, and law enforcement officials across the country are not exactly sure what to do in this interim period.It is unclear, for instance, what the Stockport police really think of the Dutch Experience. After raiding it in September, on the day it opened, they seemed to have adopted a live-and- let-smoke policy, generously acknowledging, they said in a statement, that there is an "ongoing debate about the medical benefits, or otherwise, of cannabis."But it appears that the cafe has been attracting too much attention and too boldly flouting the law, no matter how mellow its activities might seem. On Tuesday, as the BBC was inside filming the cafe for a program about drug policy, the police returned, threw everyone out and charged the owner, Colin Davies, and several others with various drug-related offenses, including selling marijuana."The police in appropriate cases exercise discretion and judgment with regard to certain offenses of simple possession of cannabis, and each case is taken on merit," said Superintendent Richard Crawshaw of the Greater Manchester Police's Stockport division. "However, in the face of overt and challenging behavior which amounts to intention to break the law, our stance will be one of enforcement."It is hard to know how far such enforcement goes. Even as Mr. Davies, one of Britain's best-known campaigners for legalizing marijuana, remained in custody overnight, his cafe reopened. The patrons came back, sipping coffee, rolling joints, discussing nothing and everything.Despite the occasional police raids, the cannabis cafe, as it is generally known, has proved highly popular with its neighbors. They applaud its strict no-alcohol, no-violence policy, saying they much prefer happy, peaceful druggies to aggressive, unpleasant drunks."They always look so pleased, and they're really friendly," said Becky Lees, who works at the front desk of the Outline health club, just across the walkway, speaking of the pot smokers at the Dutch Experience. She does not smoke — "I'm addicted to coffee, not cannabis," she said — but always welcomes customers who come in from the Dutch Experience, which sells little in the way of food to vanquish the sudden appetites of its often ravenous clientele."We get a lot of business out of it, because they get the munchies and come and eat in our cafe," Ms. Lees said.Eating, yes. But no weightlifting. "We don't let people use the gym if they've been smoking weed," she said. "It's not a good idea, for safety reasons, to let people who are stoned use the machines."Mr. Davies, who uses the profits from recreational patrons at the Dutch Experience to help pay for pot for medicinal users, says he started smoking marijuana to quell crippling back pains from the vertebrae he broke after a fall in 1995. Shortly afterward, he founded the Medical Marijuana Cooperative, a mail-order service that discreetly provides pot to people with a variety of illnesses, from cancer to multiple sclerosis. Mr. Davies, 44, jokingly calls the cafe the M.H.S., or the Marijuana Health Service. The National Health Service, or N.H.S., runs Britain's system of socialized medicine.It is not uncommon to see wheelchair users rolling down the path in front of the cafe, seeking drugs inside. "People in wheelchairs shouldn't have to pay for their medicine," said Mr. Davies, who hopes to open a chain of cannabis cafes around Britain. "They should get it free, and that's what we're doing."Mark Chadwick, 39, who hurt his arm in a motorcycle accident, does not care if he can get it free or not, as long as he can get it. For the last month or so he has been regularly paying £10 (about $14) or so per bag of pot, enough to roll a half-dozen joints that help keep him off his prescribed painkillers and make it easier to sleep at night.Mr. Chadwick loves the smoky, sleepy atmosphere inside the cafe, with its green tables imported from Amsterdam and its air of festively illicit camaraderie."It's nothing like going to a pub," he said. "It's like going to the theater instead of going to a movie. In a pub you spend all your time worrying about who's looking at you, who's going to throw a bottle at you."At the cannabis cafe, no one throws anything. Because no hard drugs are allowed, there are no dealers trying to introduce patrons to the double-edged, and far more criminal, attractions of drugs like heroin and cocaine. "If I couldn't buy here, I would have to go to a dealer, which is something I don't want to do," Mr. Chadwick said.At the Stockport Tourist Information center, employees say the Dutch Experience has become one of the most asked-about places in town.A spokeswoman, who in keeping with tourist office policy insisted that her name not be used, declined to say whether she, or any other council employees, had patronized the cafe themselves. "It's certainly put us on the map," she said, "though whether that's a positive thing or a negative thing I couldn't say."Newshawk: puff_tuffSource: New York Times (NY)Author: Sarah LyallPublished: November 22, 2001Copyright: 2001 The New York Times CompanyContact: letters nytimes.comWebsite: http://www.nytimes.com/Forum: http://forums.nytimes.com/comment/Related Articles & Web Site:Dutch Experiencehttp://www.dutchexperience.org/British Police Prepared To Support Relaxed Lawshttp://cannabisnews.com/news/thread11399.shtmlCannabis Cafe Shut Down http://cannabisnews.com/news/thread11384.shtmlMinisters Advised To Legalise Cannabis Cafeshttp://cannabisnews.com/news/thread11379.shtml 
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Comment #15 posted by E_Johnson on November 22, 2001 at 12:00:04 PT
Thanks to the Washington Post and New York Times
I don't know exactly what to thank them for.Um, thanks for starting to finally do your rightful job as adversaries to government rather than players on the same team.I have to wonder whether those fits of Watergate nostalgia triggered by the death of Kay Graham this last year had anything to do with the shift in drug war coverage by the Post.I am thankful for a plant that has evolved out of the collective molecular wisdom of Nature, that humans have learned to tend and shape into something that is an asset to humanity.And I'm thankful to belong to a community of people driven by compassion and ethics who are able to engage in a constructive nonviolent struggle against destructive and often violent oppression.
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Comment #14 posted by E_Johnson on November 22, 2001 at 11:40:31 PT
DEA gift shop
These guys don't have it together enough to take orders online -- and the potheads are the ones who are fuzzy headed and confused?Gimme a break please.
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Comment #13 posted by MikeEEEEE on November 22, 2001 at 10:52:11 PT
For all those freedom loving people
Happy Thanksgiving.I sometimes wonder why the US Government is hated. The drug war isn't the only injustice.. He said he knew of a retired woman fined $7,650 for biking in Cuba on a package tour arranged by a Canadian travel firm. Dorgan said another man who went to Cuba for a weekend while visiting the Cayman Islands was fined $19,020.From this article: http://www.commondreams.org/headlines01/1122-02.htm
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Comment #12 posted by FoM on November 22, 2001 at 09:22:09 PT
I received an email that I wanted to share
Some of us know Ed from being on line before he went to prison. I think he would like a few letters of encouragement and I thought I'd post it for everyone.Ed Forchion considers himself a Political/Religious Prisoner of the U.S. Drug War, incarcerated because of his religious beliefs, which conflict with today's Drug War Politics. The state of New Jersey claims that Forchion is in prison because he broke the law and on the third day of trial, he accepted a plea bargain. Technically, they are both right; but should a man's freedom come down to one technicality winning out over another? Or is the concept of justice in these United States supposed to be about something higher?http://www.tlmp.org/political-prisoner/
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Comment #11 posted by FoM on November 22, 2001 at 09:08:48 PT
puff_tuff 
Igloos and 1000 Watt lights and the link you left cracked us up! That's too much! Thanks! LOL!
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Comment #10 posted by FoM on November 22, 2001 at 08:22:30 PT
My Turkey's Cooking in the Oven Yippie!
Now I can look for news and wish all of you a great day. We are watching the Macy's Thanksgiving Day Parade and it is sad because of all that has happened in New York but it is also hopeful and shows the bounce back ability of New Yorkers and the people of the USA. That makes me proud to be an American. Now we need to follow in Canada's and the UK's footsteps and legalize Cannabis! Have a great day everyone! 
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Comment #9 posted by p4me on November 22, 2001 at 07:56:16 PT:
Stockport will be famous...
for the Dutch Experience. The Dutch Experience opened the door for discussion. I visit http:www.dutchexperience.org everyday because that is similar to the front lines in a war. There will be some kind of protest come the 14th of December. With 65% of Britains in favor of MJ legalization the movement there is about to break through and smash all the nonsense of the opposition. It made the pubs look bad in the UK because they never once had any trouble at the DE that the police did not cause.Bill Maher again mentioned the word marijuana on his show when he raised the issue of buying diamonds when people are being mutilated in Africa over diamonds to fund the wars in central Africa. I will give Bill credit for saying what he said and it was the most edgy thing I have heard him say in months. He said whenever the facts of the issue do not agree with what the political powers want, they say it needs more study. He drove it home by repeating himself in saying "Like the marijuana laws. They need more study." Save your money for a trip to the UK or Europe next spring. By the way, the Charlotte Observer newspaper had been listing the esavers flights every Friday. I had been checking the section once I decided I wanted to go to the DE. They had always listed the direct flight from Charlotte to London and last Friday it did not. I found that strange. It does not matter as today, Thanksgiving, my subscription ends and this may be the last time in my lifetime I walk out to pick up a newspaper. There is all the news you could want on the net and the advertisers do not filter the news.Vote against all incumbents. Happy Thanksgiving.
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Comment #8 posted by JR Bob Dobbs on November 22, 2001 at 06:39:11 PT
Totally off-topic
  ... but very well-timed, since tomorrow is the biggest shopping day of the year! And what better place to shop for your loved ones than the DEA Museum Gift Shop!  I swear, I am not making this up.
http://www.deamuseum.org/giftshop/gift_catalog.htm
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Comment #7 posted by Silent_Observer on November 22, 2001 at 06:06:10 PT
freedom fighter et al
Thank you so much for your wishes. A Happy Thanksgiving to one and all.I will be gone from the board for a month, traveling overseas - hopefully, I'll return alive, and in one piece.Take care everyone; and I'll check back around Christmas.
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Comment #6 posted by The GCW on November 22, 2001 at 05:45:04 PT
pot smokers' rights movement.
That phrase, brings Arlo Guthrie to mind.And Alices Restaurant Massacree. And every body had a real good time.
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Comment #5 posted by freedom fighter on November 22, 2001 at 02:57:49 PT
Happy Thanksgiving
to you all..I dont have much to be thankful this year but I am thankfulfor folks likeTom Crosslin
Rollie Rhom
FoM
Kapt.
DanB.
Dr. Russo
Jean
Robbie
Mayan
Dr.Zombie
Imprint
Silent_Observer
Observer
dddd
My fav. qqqq
Richard Lake
Kevin S.
Gary Storkand so many others that I cannot remember..God bless you all..Peace
ff
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Comment #4 posted by Robbie on November 22, 2001 at 02:50:20 PT
Thanks media!
Where is all this magnanimity from the press coming from? The conservatives taking the lead on drug reform policy, both British and American?In these two articles, I was also heartened to see serious and joke-less headlines. English Pot Smoker's Pub Could Prove A Model and Cannabis Could Cure. Not seeing crap like "High times in Britain" or "Medical Marijuana: Up In Smoke?" Let's see some honest investigatory work from any major media, and Americans will finally get over it. All sorts of things could end with this change, and it's "high time" that we get it done :-)Happy Thanksgiving!! Peace to all.
Harry Shearer's  " le Show "
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Comment #3 posted by freekaler on November 22, 2001 at 01:33:23 PT:
Not sure how to post here,duh.
 I had a crash, lost my files, ran across this article and then found a scrap ("be sure and hide your roaches") with password on it, Thought you might find this article relative (not sure if that is term I'm looking for...) anyway:
http://chicagotribune.com/news/chi-011121porn.story?coll=chi%2Dnews%2Dhed 
From the Chicago Tribune 'American High' teen pleads guilty to child porn
By Jerry Lawrence
Special to the TribuneNovember 21, 2001, 1:56 PM CSTA 19-year-old Highland Park man who achieved a brief moment of TV fame as a tough-talking prankster on the reality series "American High" pleaded guilty today to felony child pornography in Lake County Circuit Court.Morgan Moss was accused of videotaping he and his 16-year-old girlfriend having sex.Under a plea agreement, Moss was sentenced to 24 months' probation and ordered to pay a $1,000 fine and to register with police as a sex offender. Moss appeared subdued this morning in the Waukegan courtroom of Lake County Judge Raymond McKoski, answering simply "yes" and "no" to the judge's questions.Moss originally was charged with manufacturing child pornography, which did not allow probation as a possible sentence, authorities said. Prosecutors dropped drug charges and another sex-related charge against Moss in exchange for the plea.Though Moss declined to speak with reporters after his court appearance, his father, Allan Moss, said, "His celebrity is the only reason that this received any of the attention or reached the level it did, and it's a sad downside to what was otherwise a good experience with the documentary.""We're happy that we've finished with the court end of this thing, and Morgan is going to move on and get on with his life," his father said.A budding filmmaker who spent hours videotaping his life for public display, Moss was arrested in July and indicted by a Lake County grand jury on charges of child pornography, misdemeanor criminal sexual abuse, unlawful possession of drug paraphernalia and possession of cannabis, officials said.Police allegedly found marijuana in Moss's bedroom at his home in the 1300 block of Glencoe Drive, Highland Park, while searching for pornographic tapes.Moss was arrested after a former girlfriend began circulating a flier with his nude photo, according to authorities. The teen allegedly told police she wanted to get back at Moss for videotaping them having sex and showing the tape to friends.Prosecutors and Moss's attorney disagreed whether the girl was 16 or 17 when the videotape was made, the winter of 2000-2001. Moss was 18 at the time, authorities said. Since shortly after his arrest, he has been free on $25,000 bond.Moss was one of 13 Highland Park High School students featured in "American High," a reality-based documentary series that originally aired on the Fox network. The show was cancelled after only four episodes were aired in August 2000. PBS picked up the series and aired it in its entirety last spring and again over the summer. 
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Comment #2 posted by puff_tuff on November 22, 2001 at 00:10:23 PT
A fine article 
and on an American holiday.Happy Thanksgiving to all my American sisters and brothers and especially you FoM. (now get away from the computer and enjoy your day)We Canadians had our Thanksgiving back on Oct 8, we are now tucked away in our igloos. (those 1000 watt lites play hell on em)Personally, I gave thanks for the internet, it has and will continue to play a key roll in ending prohibition.Should I thank Gore for that??NawBest wishes allpuff_tuff
America's Lil' Terrorist 
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Comment #1 posted by Xanaralk on November 21, 2001 at 22:49:40 PT
These are good times ...
Police are making fools of themselves. this is a chance for the sheeple to see the truth about marijuana ! the british impresses me , and this is good news as it will certainly have a positive impact on Canada and USA. 
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