cannabisnews.com: War on Drugs a Closer Fit





War on Drugs a Closer Fit
Posted by FoM on September 18, 2001 at 09:33:51 PT
By Allan Barsky 
Source: Sun-Sentinel 
Since the tragic events at the World Trade Center and the Pentagon, many have suggested that the situation is analogous to the bombing of Pearl Harbor, and that American resolve and military force can be used to defeat the enemy. In fact, the war on terrorism may be more analogous to the war on drugs. When Japan attacked, we knew the enemy. The enemy had definable land, government, population and property. When terrorists attack, the enemy is amorphous. Terrorists are not tied to a single country or government, and they are not a homogeneous group. 
Similar to the war on drugs, the war on terrorism is rooted in good intentions. But the mentality of war to deal with the problem is destined to failure.We can try to eradicate terrorism by trying to secure our borders, increasing security at airports and pouring resources into domestic police enforcement. In the war on drugs, these types of strategies have deterred some drug activity, but the war rages on.We can try to deter terrorists by retaliating against terrorists and those who harbor or support them by imposing the highest forms of punishment and retribution. In the war on drugs, higher penalties and longer prison sentences have not vanquished drug dealers.The lesson from the war on drugs is that terrorism, like drug abuse, is a complex social problem that requires complex solutions. A law and order, war and retribution strategy is not sufficient. We must try to understand the causes of terrorism and gear our strategies to deal with the underlying causes. We should not simply discount suicide attackers as fanatics. In some instances, people contemplating terrorist activities represent a just cause, though their tactics are completely unjust. In those instances, the best prevention is to promote social justice throughout the world. We cannot ignore oppression, hunger and other social ills in other parts of the world, just because it is from outside America. Consider how desperate one must be to be willing to commit suicide for a cause.In other instances, people have been indoctrinated with hate and raised to commit terrorist activities. We -- all nations -- must challenge those who teach hate and ensure that future generations are raised with more positive values. With hate-mongering groups such as Hamas or the Taliban responsible for the schooling of children, it should be no surprise that we are seeing more extremism and violence in certain parts of the world. The problem is not religion, as such, but the misuse of religion to promote hate and violence. All religions must take responsibility for bringing their extremist elements back to the true roots and tenets.This is the information age, and information is certainly another element of the solution. We need to ensure that people throughout the world have access to information -- information about democracy, peace and social justice. This means education, literacy and access to computers and other forms of media. Why do Palestinians and Iraqis cheer when America is attacked? What have they learned and what are they being told about Americans? We need to understand prospective terrorists from their perspectives and develop interventions to deal with their causes.A military response and increased security measures could be part of the solution, but violence could also beget more violence. Ghandi and Martin Luther King Jr. have taught us the value of nonviolence. We must be ethical in our response. We do not want to drop bombs on some foreign country merely out of anger, to assuage our feelings of vulnerability or to demonstrate our strength. We must have the resolve and compassion to work together with the world community to create peace, security, and social justice for all.Allan Barsky, PhD, is associated with the Florida Atlantic University School of Social Work, Boca Raton.Source: Fort Lauderdale Sun-Sentinel (FL) Author: Allan Barsky Published: September 18, 2001 Copyright: 2001 Sun-Sentinel Company Contact: letters sun-sentinel.com Website: http://www.sun-sentinel.com/ Related Articles & Web Site:Holy Warriors Escalate an Old War http://freedomtoexhale.com/hw.htmHigh-Tech Security Tools Get a 2nd Look http://cannabisnews.com/news/thread10924.shtmlNew Powers Sought for Surveillance http://cannabisnews.com/news/thread10923.shtml
Home Comment Email Register Recent Comments Help




Comment #43 posted by Lehder on September 25, 2001 at 05:00:49 PT
"bomb them with butter"
In addition to limited military action against bin Laden, the U.S. should blanket Afghanistan with food, clothing and medicine.
http://www.salon.com/news/col/cona/2001/09/25/humanitarian_aid/index_np.html
[ Post Comment ]


Comment #42 posted by FoM on September 21, 2001 at 08:31:35 PT
tdm 
Thanks for your advice. We won't be going anywhere at all. We've just seen a small tip of the iceburg. It's the way I feel and soon we won't think that much about what happened at the WTC and the Pentegon. Soon it will be just like Chandra Levy. It won't be important. That's how I feel and I hope and pray I am wrong.We have to go to the VA hospital in the near future and I'm interested in seeing how the Veterans I talk to feel about this. They are the nicest people. I don't mind going to the Hospital anymore because of the nice Vets I meet. God Bless and help us all.
[ Post Comment ]


Comment #41 posted by kaptinemo on September 21, 2001 at 06:48:36 PT:
Sorry, try this one.
http://www.specialoperations.com/Domestic/DOE/NEST.htm
[ Post Comment ]


Comment #40 posted by kaptinemo on September 21, 2001 at 06:46:54 PT:
TDM? See any lone, large planes circling overhead?
Take a guess who runs it: 
Nuclear Emergency Search Team (NEST) ">http://www.specialoperations.com/Domestic/DOE/NEST.htm> 
And what do you think they are looking for? Ain't grow lights, friends, that's for sure. 
I repeat: Stay out of major metropolitan cities.
[ Post Comment ]


Comment #39 posted by tdm on September 21, 2001 at 05:39:15 PT:
nuclear terrorist threat
Was discussing with my wife last night reports I heard last week that Phase 2 of the terrorist attack (which fits the past profile) was planned for September 22, according to "intelligence sources." I'm now beating myself up for not documenting which news broadcast mentioned this. I can't find mention of it anywhere online as a reference.Nonetheless, I've been questioning why the terrorists would choose a Saturday for their Phase 2. I suggested that large stadiums full of up to 100,000 people would be a rather convenient target. Shortly after I mentioned this to my wife, she saw a scrolling news announcement on TV (during the prez's speech last night) that stated airspace will be restricted around college football stadiums tomorrow.Now, I don't want to be an alarmist here, but I doubt that the biggest threat to these packed stadiums are more hijacked airplanes. I would guess biochem agents or large explosives would do nicely for these crazies. Then this morning, I read Kap's post about the house committee meeting on nuclear terrorism and countermeasures.While worrying about the threat of a suitcase nuclear attack at a Saturday college football game sounds unbelievably paranoid and silly, I'd venture that prior to 9/11 so did worrying that two hijacked planes would destroy the WTC, or that a few minutes later another hijacked plane would plow into the Pentagon.Long story short: please stay home tomorrow if you had big football plans. After last week, being silly means not heeding specific, potential threats. 
demoss.org
[ Post Comment ]


Comment #38 posted by kaptinemo on September 21, 2001 at 04:21:49 PT:
Pretzel logic
Or perhaps the word 'syllogism' is a better way to describe Grandma Joyce's 'thinking' processes?You know about syllogisms, Grandma, right? They go like this:All birds are black.
That thing over there with wings and a beak is a bird,
Therefore, that bird is black.The bird could be as white as a snowy owl, but according to Grandma's 'thinking', she will insist it is black as space.For example, Grandma, you rail against "druggies". But you fail to have addressed by question to you: is everyone who uses drugs a "druggie"? If so, then by your 'thinking', everyone who uses tobacco or alcohol is a "druggie". Do you smoke tobacco, Grandma? Do you drink alcoholic beverages, Grandma?As usual, of course, Grandma, you decline any rational discourse, or answering any of our questions as put to you, holding as you do that anyone disagreeing with you are themselves suffering from faulty logical processes. Or, as one person in our camp put it in a posting here a few months ago, How can you hold a debate with someone whose only reply to your invitation to do so is "Haven't you started to agree with me yet?"Let me clue you in, Grandma: people here do not blindly follow, but they do question. This questioning results from having been lied to by our government for so long. For example, lies that cannabis causes insanity (if so, then where are the reports from insane asylums?); lies that it causes men to grow women's breasts ([looking down at pectoral regions] Nope, ain't happened); lies that it causes cancer (I'm getting tired of asking Grandma, but you've asked for it: where are the coroner's reports to back that up?) The very same lies which you echo with your figures...which you have yet to back up. (Don't know how to establish links in a web page, dear? Just ask; we'll be happy to help you in that regard.) In short, you pop in here, make declarative sentences as if you were Moses and bringing The Tablets, and expect everyone to be dazzled with your 'authority'. But instead you are met with questions that you refuse to answer. Perhaps because they would cause you to start questioning on your own?Grandma, as much as I'd like to spend the time educating you further on the holes in your logic, I've found that it is a waste of time talking to "True believers" incapable of defending their positions in a rational discourse. You should find someone more capable than yourself to be your champion. Perhaps you could have your oh-so-morally perfect Billy Bennett show up here to debate us instead. Oh, but he's had over 12 years to do so, and somehow simply hasn't discovered the intestinal fortitude (Too biga set of words, Grandma? How about just guts) to face us in an open debate. Perhaps because, unlike you, he knows that his position is inherently indefensible. And he fears being made to look a fool for thinking he can engage in an honest debate and not be cut to the bone by the same Occam's Razor I've applied today.As your (no doubt hero) Tricky Dick once said, It's time to s**t or get off the commode, Grandma. Debate...really debate...or bugger off.
[ Post Comment ]


Comment #37 posted by freedom fighter on September 20, 2001 at 23:01:49 PT
FoM, I have met a druggie before
It is just a child snitch who are so high on so many drugs because he/she fear people like Grandma Prohitionist who thought it was a such a good idea.Man, I am watching Bill Maher's program, man, I laughed and cried at the same time. ff
[ Post Comment ]


Comment #36 posted by freedom fighter on September 20, 2001 at 22:23:00 PT
Prohibtionist's logic
Consitution as a toliet paper, let's pretend we are fighting for freedom and liberty while we cowered for security.Like I asked you in my previous comment, Just prove me that just one have died from consuming cannabis? Just one. Please?By the way, it smells terribly here. Why don't you go to bathroom and use the Consitution as a tolietpaper? How does it feel to know that it was your taxmoney that propped the Talibans? I knew you would say something about alcohol and tobacco. By your logic, it is like saying that because some babies die from drinking mother's milk, we ought to ban breastfeeding!ff
[ Post Comment ]


Comment #35 posted by Rambler on September 20, 2001 at 21:40:17 PT
Grandma...I love you
How could I not love an innocent Grandma,who has decided that making sure the grandchildren grow up in a world that is free of drugs,and terrorism.I think your intentions are good,within your own mind,but I think that you should take a close look at yourself.Please allow me respectfully submit,that you are a Grandmother From Hell!You seem like a fanatical Grandmother,who began with justifiable,and reasonable intentions,but you have mutated into an obsessed Grandma,filled with misdirected hate toward a bunch of other grandmas,grandpas,and grandkids.I hope you can sucessfully scare your grandkids into living the you demand they live...you should think about what the heck you're doing,Osama bin Grandma.
[ Post Comment ]


Comment #34 posted by FoM on September 20, 2001 at 21:27:43 PT
I 've never met a druggie
I'm not young and I've never really met a druggie. Heck I am not sure what one is either but I sure have met plenty of alcoholics.
[ Post Comment ]


Comment #33 posted by FoM on September 20, 2001 at 21:24:47 PT
Business Week Article
I was looking for news to post and found this article and thought some of you might want to read it.The Next Phase: Bioterrorism? 
http://www.businessweek.com/bwdaily/dnflash/sep2001/nf20010920_9863.htm
[ Post Comment ]


Comment #32 posted by Grandma on September 20, 2001 at 21:10:53 PT:
Druggie Logic
Let me get this straight. The legal drug tobacco kills 430,700 Americans a year and the legal drug alcohol kills 110,640 a year. So the druggie mind concludes that all other street drugs should be legalized because they only kill 52,000 a year. In the absence of any other explanation for such perverse logic, it appears that the legalization advocates must have stock in the funeral industry. Or maybe this is just another typical example of "druggiethink." Yeah, we need more drugs killing more people.  Or maybe we're this is just "druggiethink."mreypical 
[ Post Comment ]


Comment #31 posted by FoM on September 20, 2001 at 20:54:24 PT
My Feelings
I watched the President's address and he didn't really say anything that surprised me. I believe that the horror that happened was like pandora's box being opened. I don't know if we will ever see or have the world like it was, just a short time ago, again. I'm not depressed today but I have been deep in thought. Many people did die and many more will die. This is the way of war. That's one reason that I mind fighting so much because it get's slowly out of proportion and results that aren't nice can happen. If the Mosque gets destroyed pay attention. That's what I look for as a sign. I question what motivates Bin Laden. It almost doesn't seem like he operates on his own power. How can anyone get followers that are intelligent and educated to do the things they did? What power is it that makes him so unique. So many questions. I always try to think when a situation happens that I think oh it could be worse but what they did to the WTC and the Pentagon is the worst. Nothing I could figure in my mind could be worse then what they did. It is paralyzing our country in ways I didn't think I'd live to see but the times are here now sadly.
[ Post Comment ]


Comment #30 posted by dddd on September 20, 2001 at 20:37:23 PT
Apocalypticly Phantasmagorical Outer Limits
....Absolutely unbelievable!!!....I dont know if anyone out there witnessed the presidents speech tonite,,,but I gotta tell ya,,,I considered it to be surreal,bizzarre,and very disturbing...This is the beginning of a modern version of a witch hunt...I am SHOCKED,,and I have a hard time understanding how someone could not be shocked by this utterly insane,"Plan Infinite Justice".....It is closer to a witch hunt than anyone realizes because they have been blinded by the medias drummed up endoctrination,and the shock of 9/11. Think about it,,you could replace the words "terrorist","terrorism",,,,with "witch",,or "witchcraft". If people dont feel that this is alarming,,then I say,"WAKE F*%CKING UP!!!"..According to the prezs speech,anyone,can be labeled as a "terrorist",,,,but he goes way beyond that,,,you dont need to be labeled a terrorist,,you can be labeled as one who associated with a terrorist ,,,you can be labeled as one who thought about terrorism!!!...This is going to lead to sheer insanity,and the only terror you will have to worry about,,,is the terror of the military/law enforcement empire,that is very close to suspending the rights of any and all citizens in the US,and the world..... A monster has been conjured up,and blown far out of proportion,,to create an enemy that will justify firing up the Amerikan war machine,and further the goals of corporate/political domination by the mother of all Evil Empires,,who have seized upon the tragic events of 9/11,as an opportunity launch a foolish,devious,and twisted assault,and inquistional crusade,on an undefined conceptual enemy. This is far more terrifying than any of the so called "terrorists",or "terrorist threat".This is the beginning of terrorism being used to fight "terrorists",,,and there is no terror that can match the terror of an out of control government that has stirred up hysteria to justify their dark agenda...And furthermore,these foolish actions will cause far more terror,than they prevent.This crazed jihad on "terrorism",by the US government,is at least as radical,and far more terrifying than anything in the history of the world!dddd
[ Post Comment ]


Comment #29 posted by FoM on September 20, 2001 at 19:43:57 PT
How can you fight them and win?
How can we fight an enemy who doesn't fear taking his own life along with others? The people are deadly weapons and I don't know what could make a person give up their life like they did. I know it is their religion but I still don't get it.
[ Post Comment ]


Comment #28 posted by kaptinemo on September 20, 2001 at 19:29:45 PT:
The fat's in the fire now
So, we are going to fight...An enemy who is almost perfectly camouflaged. (You think all terrorists are Hamitically featured? You think they'll all oblige US counter-terrorism operatives by wearing turbans and making muezzin calls from the roofs as identification?)An enemy who is well funded (Remember, bin Laden was a millionaire before linking up with the Taliban. Heroin had nothing to do with his early days.)And an enemy who may have some of the missing Russian nuclear weapons?NUCLEAR TERRORISM AND COUNTERMEASURES
http://commdocs.house.gov/committees/security/has274010.000/has274010_1.HTMfrom the article:"Just yesterday, the Center for Strategic and International Studies released a substantial report concluding that the spread of organized crime in the military raises ''the prospect of strategic nuclear armed missile systems in the hands of a disintegrating military subject to criminal control.''Indeed, Aleksandr Lebed, the former Presidential candidate and Secretary of the Soviet Security Council, recently alleged that terrorists may already be in possession of Russian nuclear weapons. The first time we learned about these stray devices was on May 30, when Lebed made these comments to me and a congressional delegation I led to Moscow, not for the purpose, by the way, of meeting with him, but to continue our new institutional exchange program with members of the Russian Duma.Lebed told us while still operating in his capacity as Secretary of the Russian Security Council, he had conducted a study of the Russian military accounting for its nuclear weapons, specifically suitcase-sized nuclear devices, and had found that the military had lost track of approximately 84 suitcase-sized nuclear bombs, any one of which could kill up to 100,000 people with a capacity of 1 kiloton.In the U.S. television interview subsequent to that meeting, aired on September 7, General Lebed said he now believes the number of missing nuclear weapons to be more than 100. He said the devices were the perfect terrorist weapon, as the small nuclear bombs were made to look like suitcases and could be detonated by one person with less than 30 minutes preparation.I repeat: It would be very wise to stay out of major metropolitan areas. Or risk the possibility of being forcibly relocated into the ionosphere, courtesy of one of those stolen nukes, bought by bin Laden's 'holding company'.   
[ Post Comment ]


Comment #27 posted by Patrick on September 20, 2001 at 18:44:52 PT
Hi Grandma
The Prez has spoken. We will rebuild New York City! Freedom and Fear are at WAR. I am on the side of Freedom Grandma! Let Freedom Ring! God Bless America! Fear bigotry no more! Have a nice day Grandma.
[ Post Comment ]


Comment #26 posted by dddd on September 20, 2001 at 17:51:26 PT
Thank you FoM
...I have nothing to hide,and I am against violence,,furthermore,I
think grandma Joyces shallowness,and hatefullness is reflected
in her simplistic,and childish attempt to make such a suggestion.I think that from the things grandma says,it is clear that her quest
against any and all who disagree with her,,is one of hateful fervor.
It's obvious that grandma is far more violent in her spiteful bitterness
than most....in fact,,grandma is a fanatical terrorist....Her blind
zealotry suggests that if she had the means,she would kill drug users,
or proponents of drug law reforms.I would welcome a visit from the fbi or anyone else who questions
my integrity,or intentions!I may disagree with many of the political
items in this country,but I am an American,,and a patriot to the core!
I dont believe in violence against anybody,and that includes the absurd
and insane military actions that the warpigs of the corporate evil
empire are foolishly pursuing.Grandma is like a member of a different taliban,with her jihad on other
Americans,she has gone overboard.............dddd
[ Post Comment ]


Comment #25 posted by observer on September 20, 2001 at 17:47:43 PT
Grandma's Prohibitionist Math
With 52,000 drug-related deaths a year (19,000 directly from overdoses)What, you just make this up as you go along? All Licit & Illicit Drug-Induced Deaths ... 16,926"In 1998 a total of 16,926 persons died of drug-induced causes in the United States (Table 20). The category 'drug-induced causes' includes not only deaths from dependent and nondependent use of drugs (legal and illegal use), but also poisoning from medically prescribed. and other drugs."Source: Murphy, Sheila L., Centers for Disease Control, "Deaths: Final Data for 1998,", National Vital Statistics Reports, Vol. 48, No. 11 (Hyattsville, MD: National Center for Health Statistics, July 24, 2000), pp. 1, 10, from the web at http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/nvs48_11.pdf compare: Annual tobacco deaths ... 430,700
Annual alcohol deaths ... 110,640 
 etc.see: http://www.drugwarfacts.org/causes.htmI think this is wat Grandma has been feeding on: 
"How to Lie With Statistics" 
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ISBN=0393310728/ 
[ Post Comment ]


Comment #24 posted by Lehder on September 20, 2001 at 17:30:52 PT
Infinite Justice
The votes uncounted in November are tallied today in the dollars won and lost in the American markets: three-hundred-and-eighty-three Dow points down, a resounding vote again of No Confidence in the Hammer of Vengeance, still unloved by its new name, Infinite Justice. Appreciations to tdm and freedom fighter for considering seriously Allan Barsky's silly sounding plan of peace and respect. But there's no need to be digging into our pockets. The government has already collected from us; I only suggest that different companies deliver the goods. Our enemies don't pay for our bullets or bombs, and there's no need that they pay for our charity. It sounds impractical. It's not what the bombs-and-Jesus crowd think Christian and it insults our sanguinary instincts. Our gift horses would be regarded most cautiously, but patience would be rewarded. With practice, the plan might be made to work, and why, after twenty-five-hundred bloody years since Herodotus first inquired into the origins of war, should it not be worth a few billion to try? We've nothing to lose, much respect and many friends to gain, and it might help our economy.There is the problem of our leadership and the impossibility of their implementing anything sensible or lacking a body count - infinite justice!, they demand. They who refuse to consider that a common weed might not be a lethal narcotic, will hardly surrender their violent ambitions: "we're at war." So while the airplanes and soldiers gather, let's look the enemy in the eye and see what he's made of:Population: 26,813,057 
Life expectancy: 46.24 years
Literacy: total population: 31.5% 
     male: 47.2% 
     female: 15% (1999 est.) 
Government: no functioning central government
Economy: sheep and goats
GDP per capita: $800 
Telephones: 29,000 
Radios: 167,000 
Televisions: 100,000
Internet Service Providers (ISPs): 1 
Internet users: NA
http://www.odci.gov/cia/publications/factbook/These unfed illiterates have not the slightest idea what is happening to them, and if we anger half a continent devastating them for the sake of a few criminals, however evil, then we will be the shame of the world and rightly hated still more than we are. I'm counting on George's reluctant and more sensible coalition to collapse before Afghanistan collapses, and if Barsky prevails it will collapse before the first spear is cast. I learned it myself in the violent streets of America: Make love not war. But if a hippy's advice must be despised, then take the same from history's greatest general: From the heartland of Persia, Alexander in 329 B.C. marched northeastward into the trackless steppes of Bactria (modern Afghanistan). When he proved unable to subdue
completely the highly mobile locals, who avoided pitched battles in favor of the guerrilla tactics of attack and retreat, Alexander settled for an alliance that he sealed by marrying the Bactrian princess Roxane in 327 B.C. 
 An Overview of Classical Greek History from Homer to Alexander Thomas R. Martin 
http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/cgi-bin/ptext?doc=Perseus%3Atext%3A1999.04.0009%3Ahead%3D%23299
[ Post Comment ]


Comment #23 posted by Patrick on September 20, 2001 at 16:10:51 PT
Hi Grandma
Since you made the following comment to the FBI (hehehe) about my post…"Poster #10 confirms that this is a "druggie" web site. But he didn't have to tell anyone-- it's obvious. With 52,000 drug-related deaths a year (19,000 directly from overdoses) many posters want to legalize drugs "to take the profit out." Yeah, like legalizing alcohol took the profit out of the booze industry. Only the druggie mind could be so irrational."You DEA guys are slipping. LOL How can u be so sure Poster #10 is a male? Also "he" never mentioned legalizing marijuana would necessarily remove profit. Both the pharmacological and alcohol beverage industry happen to be quite profitable enterprises. As to your inference about my irrationality, this is now the third time you have had issue with me. All you have managed is to criticize my viewpoint about ending marijuana prohibition. You have yet to even explain your position. Where is the rationality in that grandma?AnywayNot one of the 19,000 deaths that you mentioned can be attributed to marijuana. Not even one. In my opinion, if we told the truth about drugs and the effects they can have on us? Our society could lower that number significantly. As for you not mentioning the number of deaths attributed to "legal" booze, drunk driving, and the 400,000 tobacco related deaths annually? I will assume it is because your tongue is tied in a knot from the hate you must harbor in your heart for those that have a differing opinion than yours?
[ Post Comment ]


Comment #22 posted by FoM on September 20, 2001 at 15:40:11 PT
dddd
I saw the error but I think it's something I can't fix. I think it occured when Matt was working on the upgrade to C News yesterday and I will defend you that you always sign your name. I knew you weren't hateful but venting. That's all I thought. Just blowing off some steam some would call it.
[ Post Comment ]


Comment #21 posted by dddd on September 20, 2001 at 15:27:28 PT
comment # 15
...a strange glitch of some sort left the name area blank,but as
usual,I signed my name at the end.I would not hurt a fly,much less
try to make veiled threat against the prez.I think he's an incompetant
jerk,and an idiot,who cheated his way into office,and I dont care for
him.I do not advocate violence against anybody!RoundUp is supposedy
harmless to humans,and I think grandma,and anyone else who approves
of poisonig Colombia with it,should also be sprayed with it.,,after all,
it is harmless to humans,,isnt it?...dddd
[ Post Comment ]


Comment #20 posted by freedom fighter on September 20, 2001 at 11:08:23 PT
I will defend your right, Grandma,
to post your thoughts.With an understanding that, I have the same rights.It is amazing that you would complain that one of the poster thought it was an idea who's time have come. Spray the shrub with the round up.. Can you understand what you are saying? We are doing just exactly the same thing to the Colombian people. If you did not like the idea of spraying round up on our prez, then why are we doing this to others? What gives you that right?Let me clarify my statement on #5 since you seemed bit confused. Wither if you like it or not, our sweet government have been supporting terrorists for years. Mr. Bush gave 43 millions$ to Talibans because they wiped the poppy flowers. It is our tax money that support the terrorists who treat their dogs better than their women.
Are you not surprised that the Afghans have not been producing herion? By the way, their herion heads for the Europe not in US. We get ours from the Colombians.Of the "19000 overdoses", prove it to me that one of them have died from smoking Cannabis. To tell you the truth, I do not give a rat's ass if you took rat posion, eat ten raw potatoes or ingest 3 ounces of nutmeg. These stuff are legal and it is not because I am a mean, cruel uncaring person that I would not care if you do so. If you do put these stuff in your mouth, it will kill you and I will think you are stupid! The reason? This is America and you are a free American to put any substance in your mouth.I will defend your rights to your thoughts. I just want you to know that you sound very spiteful person, after all, it would please you if all of us "legalizers" sitting in your prisons. I am the last person you would want to do this because I would gladly give up my life saving your family's lives if some dumb terrorists would dare try to cause harm to any one in your family.ff
[ Post Comment ]


Comment #19 posted by kaptinemo on September 20, 2001 at 10:55:34 PT:
Click! WHIRRRRRR!
 
 Welcome back, Grandma. Or should I say “Joyce”?Let's review your statements, shall we?"FBI, please note that poster #15 has made a poorly veiled call for assassination of President Bush with his statement, "...shrub (a vegetation metaphor for President Bush) should be sprayed with RoundUp."First off, you are assuming that the FBI, via its CARNIVORE system, is solely and monomaniacally engaged in monitoring this site. As if this site were operated by people busily cooperating with the thugs who murdered the thousands in New York and the hundred or so in Washington DC. Am I safe in assuming that you have not developed the necessary courage to contact the FBI yourself and make anonymous whisperings of your suspicion of perfidy to them? Please, if you have not yet done so, proceed. But many of us have suspected for a long time the presence of 'lurking' LEOs who either come here to read and laugh at supposed rantings...or the more perspicacious of them to read the 'writing on the wall'. In either event, we are hardly afraid of the implied threat that you make. We will continue to speak our not-so-addled minds as long as we are able. Now, are you implying that spraying someone with RoundUp is tantamount to threatening their lives? If you are, then that's very interesting: Monsanto and your anti friends are so sure that it's 'safe'. (At least, the version used in the United States, not the industrial strength, additive-riddled cocktail being sprayed on many innocent farmers, their wives and children not engaged in the coca trade.) Also, are you saying that it's fine and dandy to spray Latin campesinos with this noxious brew, but not the WASP-ish Prez of the US of A? Where do you draw the line? At the color bar?"Poster #10 confirms that this is a "druggie" web site. But he didn't have to tell anyone-- it's obvious. With 52,000 drug-related deaths a year (19,000 directly from overdoses) many posters want to legalize drugs "to take the profit out." Yeah, like legalizing alcohol took the profit out of the booze industry. Only the druggie mind could be so irrational."Druggies". As much as I try to avoid labeling people, I do find it inordinately easy in the case of our opponents. Those demonstrating what I believe to possess certain psychological traits. Traits which, when examined closely, seem to indicate a mindset revolving around authoritarianism. The same kind of authoritarianism endemic to Facsism, National Socialism and Communism.Now, it is typical of such mindsets to ignore the enormous costs that the two legal drugs alcohol and tobacco cause to society. (Drugs, Grandma. Drugs Do you drink, Grandma? Do you smoke tobacco? Do your friends do either? If you do, you are a drug user. If your friends do, they are drug users. If you associate with them, you associate with drug users. In short, if you use these substances, or your friends do, you and your friends are "druggies". And those who use these substances because they are addicted to them are drug addicts. Have a care with your looking down your nose at 'druggies', as there might be a mirror hanging under it, showing your reflection.)Half a million people die each year from alcohol poisoning and tobacco-related diseases. Just from use, alone, Grandma. Not counting vehicular manslaughter, homicides, domestic violence, etc. No one has died from cannabis use alone. None. Zero. Zip. Nada. Not a single reported case of cannabis-induced death. No overdoses from cannabis listed in coroner reports in the 100 or more years since they've been kept in this country. Your beloved Barry has been called out on his statistics of '52,000 drug deaths a year and has never had the cojones to back them up and explain how he derived them. No proof. Your continuing to use these figures calls into question your own veracity as a source of information.Now, as to taking the profit out of alcohol, obviously it didn't. People still make money out of selling rotgut. But nowhere near as much as they did out of selling prohibited rotgut. The enormous profits that poured into la Cosa Nostra's wallets derived from sales of a prohibited substance. Just as it does today with illegal drugs. The very same mechanism at work, and I am not surprised at all with your (frankly, juvenile) attempt at conflation. You are not addressing ignorant sheeple, here, my dear. ” Poster #5 is right. Following the money will bring it right back to the U. S. This will nail the drug traffickers and their "legalization" supporters. I hope that the druggies whose illegal commerce supports the terrorists, enjoy their stay in prison because it's coming."A pathetic attempt at scare mongering. It won’t happen. You know why? Because, in following the money, it would lead to some very interesting places. such as Langley, Virginia. And Fort Meade, Maryland. And their connections with the Bush Prime/Ollie North/Barry Seal/Mena/Iran-Contra deals your beloved Prez has first-hand knowledge of. He would have to be the first to hop in the slammer. Him and his Daddy’s CIA buddies. For retroactive nose-powdering. Which he not so adroitly dodges.
[ Post Comment ]


Comment #18 posted by FoM on September 20, 2001 at 08:16:13 PT
Thanks Doug
I remember I think. When we went to the Moon or orbited the earth for the first time. So many years ago.
[ Post Comment ]


Comment #17 posted by tdm on September 20, 2001 at 08:03:10 PT:
operation trojan dove
Lehder said, "The huge profits to be made in rescuing Afghanistan from the ravages of war, extremism, famine and land mines are as great as those offered by war. Only the names of the corporations are different. Must every great enterprise be one of destruction? Would not more noble efforts be as stimulating to our economy as warfare?"What a beautiful idea -- corporations profiting from love. If everyone was as serious about loving others as they say they are, this sounds like it could actually work.Two problems to be addressed:
1) One of the criticisms leveled at the U.S. by the likes of the Taliban, is that our western culture is an insidious evil in their land. How do we convince them that our corporations would stop at restoring their war-ravaged lands to even footing, and wouldn't instead use our power to further infiltrate their culture with ours?2) Paying for such an effort would have to be a voluntary effort on the part of individuals. Using taxes for even humanitarian efforts introduces back into the equation the very same government and politicians that brought us to this position in history to begin with. I'd really rather have them not involved (unless it's to donate cash out of their own pockets). Can we hope that given the current climate and attitude toward Afghanistan, the Taliban, etc., individuals will reach deep and contribute to the effort?Thanks for your fresh ideas, Lehder.
demoss.org
[ Post Comment ]


Comment #16 posted by Grandma on September 20, 2001 at 07:35:19 PT:
Anti-drug Commentary
FBI, please note that poster #15 has made a poorly veiled call for assassination of President Bush with his statement, "...shrub (a vegetation metaphor for President Bush) should be sprayed with RoundUp." which kills unwanted vegetation. When he's arrested he can can plead that he was temoporarily insane from drug use when he made that extremely dangerous comment.Poster #10 confirms that this is a "druggie" web site. But he didn't have to tell anyone-- it's obvious. With 52,000 drug-related deaths a year (19,000 directly from overdoses) many posters want to legalize drugs "to take the profit out." Yeah, like legalizing alcohol took the profit out of the booze industry. Only the druggie mind could be so irrational.Poster #5 is right. Following the money will bring it right back to the U. S. This will nail the drug traffickers and their "legalization" supporters. I hope that the druggies whose illegal commerce supports the terrorists, enjoy their stay in prison because it's coming.
[ Post Comment ]


Comment #15 posted by 
The little teeny hammer of my opinion
..and it makes me nervous to say it,,,,but I think it's time for Operation Impeach the Turkey....now dont take this wrong,federal web monitor watchman carnivore,,,but I think the shrub should be sprayed with RoundUp.It wont harm him if he's a human....RoundUp doesn't hurt humans......dddd
[ Post Comment ]


Comment #14 posted by mr.greengenes on September 19, 2001 at 14:34:42 PT
Ananda Lewis Show
Just a heads up in case anybody is interested, Ananda Lewis is having a show on legalizing marijuana for both recreational use and medical on Thursday(tomorrow).
[ Post Comment ]


Comment #13 posted by Lehder on September 19, 2001 at 12:00:16 PT
The Hammer of Vengeance
The Hammer of Vengeance seems to still be uppermost in the white rascals' minds today. Our stock market, while off its lows, is tallying a strong vote of No Confidence in the great Hammer.At the same time, the United Nations is investigating reports of starvation in northern Afghanistan, where there is also bitter fighting between the Taliban and other Islamic groups. Beyond that, the land in Afghanistan is strewn with mines that kill people every day.http://www.overpopulation.com/articles/2001/000020.htmlI claim that it is time to reconsider operation Trojan Dove.There are already food relief organizations in place that have been, until recently, serving Afghanistan and parts of Africa and these could be revitalized if the United States lacks the logistic capabilities for providing relief.The International Court of Justice is an existing body that can be used for bringing bin Laden and those he has brainwashed to justice. We should use this organization as it was intended; it makes more sense than issuing ultimatiums of 'fer us or agin us' to our best allies.The huge profits to be made in rescuing Afghanistan from the ravages of war, extremism, famine and land mines are as great as those offered by war. Only the names of the corporations are different. Must every great enterprise be one of destruction? Would not more noble efforts be as stimulating to our economy as warfare?E. Johnson, in speaking of the drug war, wrote that our situation could be improved only through the application of love. I hope that she will show up here to give her opinion of this plan alternative.I hope the government monitors are listening in today. Perhaps they have the courage of their convictions to comment here and debate me. Or is it their way only to seek personal destruction for those who offer good counsel? Really, it's just a debate. Or is debate unAmerican? If the only choice you offer is 'fer ya or agin ya', and there there is to be no debate, then I am abstaining and I'll stay here shouting into the wind. But your allies, you will find, are soon to turn agin ya, beginning with Pakistan.We can be the heroes of a golden age, or we can be the most hated people on earth. 
[ Post Comment ]


Comment #12 posted by Doug on September 19, 2001 at 09:43:34 PT
FoM
Thanks for posting the lyrics to 'Eve of Destruction' always one of my favorite songs. Even though some of the words may be dated -- who remembers what "four days in space" refers to -- it is still quite on target. Hearing it with the music makes it seem even more impressive.One should note that it is now a banned song. There is a list -- I saw it on SlashDot -- of songs that are deemed inappropriate for airplay by Clear Channel Communications, one of the largest owners of radio statioons these days. 
[ Post Comment ]


Comment #11 posted by dddd on September 19, 2001 at 09:38:55 PT
Right On Patrick
...I'm sure most have wrestled with the same strange,spooky feeling,,,that there would exsist some governmental database of people who make their views known in places such as this,,I finally came to the point I am now at....I hope that some poor asshole is monitoring me right now,,and all I have to say to him is,,"find a different job,,you traitor of American freedom !!",,,,but to his bosses,,I have a special,different message,,,and here it is!....(pardon the profanity please,I feel that it is unfortunately appropriate)"Fuck You,,you snoopy shithead!,,Go ahead,,Come and get my old,withering,radical ass!!I dont care anymore!..you should be ashamed of yourself!...Using the excuse that you're "just doing my job",dont cut it anymore.When you go home to your family,and you see your wife and kids,and you pretend to believe that what your are doing is for the good of your childrens future,and that your efforts are somehow making the world safer,,,then you are starring in a puppet show,,as the Grand Fool!....Wake Up my friend.........well...I hope they got the message,,,but with my luck,,,the guy who monitors this site,called in sick today,,,or maybe I neglected to say enough key words to trip the carnavore recognizor threshold..nice day.....dddd 
[ Post Comment ]


Comment #10 posted by Patrick on September 19, 2001 at 08:54:12 PT
dddd on the government watching
Before I began posting here I weighed the consequences of posting my opinions here at an obviously "pro-druuug" website. I fully expected that a $20 billion dollar DEA budget included the monitoring of such sites to include locating the physical addresses of its vistors IP addresses. I understood going in that I would be branded, labeled, and marked. I decided that if I was gonna support a cause it would be the peacuful movement to to make marijuana legal. I do not even consider marijuana a drug. It's a herb. To me a drug is something made by man, like aspirin! Are they watching us? You can bet your keester they are! We have to be on our best behavior and demonstrate that our pro-marijuana "opinions" are in no way connected to illegal terrorist activity. The fight goes on a little longer folks. I am still hoping it will end shortly.
[ Post Comment ]


Comment #9 posted by Rambler on September 19, 2001 at 02:13:52 PT
todays golden rule
Try to undo to others,the stuff that you shoundn't have done to them in the pastDo unto others,more of what you've already doneDo unto others,whatever the government wants to do
[ Post Comment ]


Comment #8 posted by freedom fighter on September 19, 2001 at 01:31:38 PT
P.L.U.R.
P stands for PeaceL stands for LoveU stands for UnityR stands for RespectWhat would it take to achieve Peace?No more guns or bombs?What would it take to achieve Love?No more hate?What would it take to achieve Unity?All the brothers and sisters of the world who believe in Peace, Love, Unity, and Respect?What would it take to achieve Respect?Do to others as you would want others do to you?P.L.U.RPeace, Love, Unity, RespectA Raver's Mottoff
[ Post Comment ]


Comment #7 posted by dddd on September 18, 2001 at 23:40:26 PT
Great Comments
Lehder,Firedog,CannabisDave,Ethan,FreedomFighter....Eve of Destruction is quite appropriate FoM,,It's very fortunate for the War on Terrorism,that theWar on Drugs was already happening.It has made it veryeasy to make a "war",on a thing,,seem normal,,,,and that'sthe most absurd part of all this,,,,the government has successfullydeclared war,on an enemy that is unspecified...From now on,,it canbe ANYONE,,who they want to bust,,all they need to say,is thatkey word,"terrorist",,or "suspected terrorist",,,or a "materialwitness"......ddddIf anyone thinks that the internet is not monitored,,,,,see this..http://www.latimes.com/technology/la-000074346sep15.story?coll=la-headlines-technology
[ Post Comment ]


Comment #6 posted by FoM on September 18, 2001 at 22:27:02 PT
freedom fighter
Today I was thinking about how the world has changed in just one week and I went and found and old song that had a lot of impact way back when. I looked at the lyrics and thought how real it seems this time around.THE EVE OF DESTRUCTIONBarry McGuire(P.F. Sloan)Courtesy of MCA Records, Inc.  The eastern world,It is explodin', Violence flarin', Bullets loadin', You're old enough to kill, But not for votin', You don't believe in war, But what's that gun you're totin', And even the Jordan river has bodies floatin', But you tell me over and over and over again my friend, Ah, you don't believe we're on the eve of destruction. Don't you understand what I'm trying to say? Can't you feel the fears I'm feeling today? If the button is pushed, There's no running away, There'll be no one to save With the world in a grave, Take a look around you, boy, It's bound to scare you, boy, And you tell me over and over and over again my friend, Ah, you don't believe we're on the eve of destruction. Yeah, my blood's so mad, Feels like coagulatin', I'm sittin' here, Just contemplatin', I can't twist the truth,It knows no regulation, Handful of senators don't pass legislation, And marches alone can't bring integration, When human respect is disintegratin', This whole crazy world is just too frustratin', And you tell me over and over and over again my friend, Ah, you don't believe we're on the eve of destruction. Think of all the hate There is in Red China! Then take a look around To Selma, Alabama! Ah, you may leave here, For four days in space, But when your return it's the same old place, The poundin' of the drums, The pride and disgrace, You can bury your dead, But don't leave a trace, Hate your next-door-neighbor, But don't forget to say grace, And tell me over and over and over and over again my friend, You don't believe we're on the eve of destruction. No, no, you don’t believe we’re on the eve of destruction. 
[ Post Comment ]


Comment #5 posted by freedom fighter on September 18, 2001 at 22:02:17 PT
Lehder
Your idea is great however, with Talibans, they do not even let people have Television. The Talibans do not even let children have stuffed animals. They are not a government. They are only accepted by few countries of the world. It would be embrassing if US government indeed start following the money. It would come right back to the shores of the USA. As I write, people are going to use drugs as a scapegoat. Nevermind that it was the prohibition that caused this. However, if Bin Laden moves around two or three times a week, do you think he would have time to set up drug trafficking business? I do not think so. He is too busy looking out for his arse and his jihad decree.I feel sad for my arab brothers and sisters. I am not talking about monsters who espouse hate. Bin Laden want us to get bloodthristy. 90% of americans are feeling this way right now. We are no better than the terrorists that did a "job" if we should start the war that will know no end.It is going to be bloodly.ff
[ Post Comment ]


Comment #4 posted by firedog on September 18, 2001 at 21:13:44 PT
My response
Dear Editor:I would like to take a moment to comment about the recent article titled "War on Drugs a Closer Fit" by Dr. Allan Barsky.I am quite impressed to see an article in an American paper that deals with the situation in a rational, detached manner. I have had to go mostly to the European press to find level-headed commentary about the tragedy and how we should react.As an American, I have had quite mixed reactions to the tragedy. I am angry with whoever did this and I would like to see them pay.Maybe we should lock Bin Laden up with Milosevic in a padded cell decorated in the height of '70s fashion. We could then pipe a specially-selected mix of songs by Kid Rock, Eminem, Bruce Springsteen, Madonna and various other artists into the cell 24 hours a day, seven days a week. We could have observation windows and sell tickets, and the revenue raised would be more than enough enough to rebuild New York.But I also think we need to ask ourselves the questions, "Why did this happen?" "How could we have prevented it?" and "Are we always right?" In recent history, we have committed far worse atrocities than the WTC attack. We have bombed around 30 different countries since the end of World War II. We destroyed Hiroshima, Nagasaki, and Dresden towards the end of that war, killing around 500,000 civilians in the process. We killed about two million Iraqis, directly and indirectly. Many tens of thousands are dead in South America because of U.S. backed regimes of terror. Let's not forget that white America practically eliminated the Indian population last century, right here at home.In our own country, we deny clean needles to heroin addicts, encouraging the spread of AIDS to innocent victims. Collateral damage, I guess. We have more of our citizens locked up, per capita, than any country in the world. We criminalize the possession of a harmless plant because it threatens the profits of the petrochemical, tobacco, and alcohol industries, and send federal agents in to kill those who resist the State's policies.Our hands are not clean. This fact needs to be accepted and dealt with. Until we do, and admit it to ourselves and the rest of the world, we will never be free of terrorism.
[ Post Comment ]


Comment #3 posted by Lehder on September 18, 2001 at 15:28:20 PT
Trojan Dove
Of course Alan Barsky is right. The killing of Pablo Escobar did not end the drug war, and the killing of Osama bin Laden will not end terrorism. On the contrary, our government's violent ambitions are sure to inspire new fanatics, more violent and hateful and lusting for glory. That policy leads, as promised, to demands for bitter and needless sacrifice and, as advertised, a conflict that will ravage over the entire globe for "years."Of course the way to end the war on drugs and all the violence and waste is to take the profit out of drugs: legalize. The way to take the profit out of terrorism is to end the hatred - feed the starving Afghanis, give them computers and make them love us.It's Allan Barsky's idea and there's as much profit in it as there is in war. I want to encourage Dell, Intel, Microsoft not to donate any computers to the Afghans - why shouldn't altruism be profitable? - but to lobby Congress and the public with their most persuasive people to have the governemnt buy these computers so that peaceful companies can make a stupendous profit, just as the war machine makes an obscene profit selling missiles and bullets to tyrants. What would happen if we tried this? I think it would inspire epic poetry as immortal as Homer's, bring the world, in a day, a new golden age of peace and end our archaic age of war.Really, what would happen? Our aircraft carriers roll up to the Pakistani shores, invincible and unchallenged, then a D-day armada of air power, unassailable and omnipotent, lands in a continuous day and night delivery of crates and drums and boxs to the border airstrip. In the morning we present the Afghanis with an official warrant from the International Court of Justice for the delivery of Osama bin Laden. We'll also present them with twenty-five-million enormous food baskets, more if they like, and twenty-five million computers. Later, we'll produce an army of technicians and coils of optical fiber to hook it all up. Let's make friends of the Afghanis and take the profit out of terrorism. You might object that the Marshall Plan worked very well for rebuilding Germany and the rest of Europe - but that we had first destroyed Germany. No problem - Afghanistan has already been destroyed by Russia. The people are starving there, they have nothing. What would happen? Do you suppose that Osama and his personal army of 3,000 would mow down their own people as they hungrily gathered the gifts? We really ought to try this. Thanks, Allan Barsky, for a good idea. I was wondering what to do about our problems; Herodotus wanted to know too.
[ Post Comment ]


Comment #2 posted by Cannabis Dave on September 18, 2001 at 15:16:33 PT
Fighting terrorism is like drugs - are we doomed?
I agree that fighting terrorism does have more in common with fighting drugs than it does with regular warfare. That is VERY worrisome to me, because our government is obviously losing the war on drugs, and yet continues to use strategy/tactics doomed to failure. Will they make the mistake in their war against terrorism? So far I think the country has reacted just the way the terrorists expected, except for the extreme patiotism and unity that is being exhibited - they may not have counted on that. I'm sure they did count on grandiose threats, mass paranoia, and eventually having ground troops coming after them. That would be a mistake on our part. If the Soviet Union couldn't win in Afghanistan even after using dirty tactics that we would never resort to (poison gas etc.), then what chance does our military have? When the body bags start coming home and many innocent people die (collateral damage), then the patriotism may give way to anti-war sentiment. Indeed, it could become worse than during Vietnam and once again cannabis could play a big part in the social turmoil, given our governments continued bigoted opinion against it. I wouldn't be surprised if we start having terrorist attacks from Columbian terrorists in the near future too, considering what we're doing down there. Trading drugs for weapons will become even a bigger "business" than it already is, and the world will become flooded with both. Maybe our own CIA will get involved with it again - maybe they will smuggle drugs into our country to diseminate in the "anti-war" community here to kill all those "un-patriotic" citizens, just like they did with heroin against the hippies in the early 1970's: I remember all the high grade heroin that suddenly flooded the streets, which caused many people (hippies) to over-dose and die. I'm as infuriated and sad about what happened on 09/11/01 as anyone else, but making threats and using regular ground forces is a mistake - it's suicide. The people we would be fighting WANT to die in battle, and they had nothing to do with the terrorist attacks, so why should we go to war against them? Using intelligence and special forces is the right way to proceed, but that would take a long time and everyone wants revenge NOW - it seems our country has become as blood-thirsty as the terrorists, and that is sad. Violence begets violence - the cycle will not be broken if we don't carefully reason about what we're doing before proceeding. I pray that our government will show some restraint, but I'm afraid they are going to make a major retaliation just for the sake of doing to kill people in revenge. That would be a big mistake in my opinion, and could lead us right into "WW III", considering how many muslim nations are nuclear powers.
[ Post Comment ]


Comment #1 posted by Ethan Russo, MD on September 18, 2001 at 12:08:02 PT:
Voices of Reason
The uniform wall of jingoism is falling. This chap has the right idea. I shudder to contemplate the hate mail he will receive as a result.If Amerika listens to the war mongers, we will all regret the decision. A military over-reaction will lead to a galvanizing of the downtrodden in a way that even the governments of the countries that support us will be unable to quell. The way to manage this situation militarily is quietly, and surgically with full cooperation of host governments. Pool intelligence. Be patient. Get in and get out.Simultaneously, knowledge and its dissemination is our best defense. What if we offered computer terminals and Internet hook-ups to kids across the world? A fair percentage would prefer that to throwing rocks and sticks at a distant tormentor.I also propose another worldwide concert event: "Musicians for World Peace." This would need to be staged in multiple venues, probably over the course of a 3 day weekend of respective Sabbaths (Muslims Friday, Jews Saturday, Christians Sunday). Artists from every nation, including like-minded Arabs, other Muslims, Indians, Pakistanis, Chinese, Russians, Africans, Europeans, North and South Americans should be invited to perform, and MTV can broadcast it over the planet with simultaneous video feeds on the World Wide Web. Ticket and merchandizing proceeds can be utilized to advance world peace, and fund scholarships to poor Third World students who wish to study in the West. The image of Israeli and Palestinian, Indian and Pakistani, Chinese and American, Bosnian and Serb holding hands in solidarity against violence can produce a strong impression on the young people of the world. 
[ Post Comment ]


Post Comment