cannabisnews.com: Who’s The Mastermind?
Who’s The Mastermind?
Posted by FoM on September 12, 2001 at 07:48:54 PT
By Christopher Dickey and Andrew Nagorski
Source: Newsweek
“Who’s got the brains and the money to do this?” asked one veteran of Washington’s war against terrorism as the details of devastation flashed across the television screen this morning. Who indeed? Cautious speculation could include home-grown true believers preaching their own version of God and Country, like recently-executed Oklahoma City bomber Timothy McVeigh; or the guerrillas and drug lords of Colombia, where U.S. troops and covert operatives are ever more deeply embroiled. But the first guess by many intelligence officials in the Middle East, Europe and the United States was the “jihadists” who have congregated in Afghanistan around Saudi dissident Osama bin Laden:
“A whole flock of organizations that don’t necessarily follow his direct orders or ever have contact with him,” says Richard Murphy, a former U.S. ambassador to Syria and Saudi Arabia, who is now at the Council on Foreign Relations. Bin Laden is a talker. He publicly declared “holy war” on all Americans in 1998 and called for attacks on them anywhere in the world. But the move from menacing rhetoric to mass murder has been handled by others who’ve remained in the shadows. Even if he were eliminated, analysts agree, the threat he represents would remain. “If bin Laden is the composer, who is the conductor? That’s what we want to know,” says a U.S. official directly concerned with terrorism. Like George Smiley searching for Karla in the novels of John Le Carre, investigators see recurrent patterns in certain operations: in the August, 1998 bombing of U.S. embassies in Kenya and Tanzania, in the October, 2000 bombing of the U.S.S. Cole in Yemen, and in today’s horrific suicide flights against the World Trade Center and the Pentagon. Such operations are years in the planning and extremely well-coordinated, but they depend on audacity, surprise and basic intelligence-gathering by the terrorists rather than highly sophisticated explosives or weapons of mass destruction. The awful success of today’s attacks depended entirely on their choice of weapon: long-range passenger aircraft heavily laden with jet fuel. The plotters watch, they probe. Some counter-terrorism operatives now speculate that intelligence picked up by U.S. agencies about possible terrorist attacks on Americans last June may actually have been leaked by operatives associated with bin Laden. “There’s a whole industry built up around watching Osama bin Laden, and if we get the slightest hint we react like crazy,” says a U.S. investigator based in the Persian Gulf. At the time, U.S. warships pulled out of Middle Eastern ports, other U.S. personnel were evacuated, and FBI investigators looking at the Cole bombing withdrew from Yemen rather than face what they called a special threat targeting them. Now it appears the terrorists “may have been testing where and how we picked up information—and what were the things we missed,” says this source. “They saw where we reacted, and presumably also where we didn’t react.” Were they casing American airports at the same time to see if extra precautions went into effect? “They not only know how to plan, but they know how to test,” said this investigator, “and they know, obviously, where the gaps are.” Another U.S. officer concerned with Middle Eastern terrorism notes that the awful success of today’s attacks depended entirely on their choice of weapon: long-range passenger aircraft heavily laden with jet fuel that are known to fly routes near the Trade Center and the Pentagon. Guns are difficult to smuggle onto a plane. Other weapons, such as ceramic knives, pass x-rays undetected. Yet much of Washington’s focus on terrorist threats in the last few years has been on the theoretical possibility that America’s fanatical enemies are planning to use weapons of mass destruction—whether chemical, biological, or nuclear—against U.S. targets. John Parachini of the Monterey Institute of International Studies has warned repeatedly, on the basis of detailed budget analyses, that Washington is calculating threat assessments “on what people think terrorists could do, not on what they have done in the past, or what they are able to do given considerable technical difficulties of procurement, production and delivery” involved with weapons of mass destruction. Meanwhile, America’s enemies have grown more skilled with the tools they already have. “There appears to be a core group that is slowly becoming more sophisticated with every attack,” says one official who has tracked the “jihadists” for years. “And what’s scary is that they have a lot of these plots in motion at any one time.” Some names of possible masterminds keep flashing across investigators’ screens. Ayman Zawahiri, leader of the Egyptian Islamic Jihad, has often appeared side by side with bin Laden. Another key planner may be a Gaza Palestinian known as “Abu Zubaydah” or Mohammed Hussein Zein-al-Abideen. He is sometimes referred to as bin Laden’s chief executive officer, and was implicated as the key contact for several terrorist cells operating out of Western Europe and the Balkans in the 1990s. But whoever “the conductors” are, they use operatives on the ground who never know the whole picture. “They find local people to do the scut work,” as one U.S. official puts it. So even though there are arrests, and convictions, no solid proof has linked the Africa bombings to the Cole, or the Cole directly to bin Laden’s so-called “Al-Qaeda” network, much less to the man himself. Washington’s ability to penetrate these groups remains weak, and the friendly services it used to rely on for help have proven ineffectual. Clearly what’s needed is better intelligence. But Washington’s ability to penetrate these groups remains weak, and the friendly services it used to rely on for help have proven ineffectual. The Israelis have their hands full at home. The Egyptians have been cutting deals with former terrorists to keep peace on their own territory (a practice not unknown to European governments). The Pakistani intelligence services are so deeply tied to the Taliban in Afghanistan that their motives are considered suspect. And just last week, Saudi King Fahd fired the U.S.-educated prince, Turki al-Feisal, who has run his country’s intelligence operations for the last two decades. Investigators sometimes get lucky. After the 1993 attack on the World Trade Center, one of the conspirators was stupid enough to try to get his deposit back on the rental van used for the bomb. After Oklahoma City in 1995, Timothy McVeigh was picked up by police because he didn’t have a license plate on his car. But the terrorists the United States is up against now, wherever they come from, are no amateurs. And unless Washington develops new approaches to assessing the terrorist risk, and the means to penetrate the terrorist networks directly, there’s a very real risk that investigators and intelligence agents will still be sifting the evidence of today’s atrocities when new ones occur somewhere else. Note: As America’s enemies grow more skilled, the nation needs to develop better intelligence networks.Source: NewsweekAuthor: Christopher Dickey and Andrew NagorskiPublished: September 11, 2001Copyright: 2001 Newsweek, Inc.Contact: Editors newsweek.comWebsite: http://www.newsweek.com/Related Articles:Powell Flies Home After Terrible, Terrible Tragedyhttp://cannabisnews.com/news/thread10896.shtml
Home Comment Email Register Recent Comments Help
Comment #61 posted by deepthroat on October 25, 2001 at 14:21:11 PT:
illuminati
The secret truth: www.ka.net/randy/
[ Post Comment ]
Comment #60 posted by kaptinemo on September 14, 2001 at 04:04:16 PT:
To answer your question, FF
They don't say anything.Like you, I had wondered what their reaction might be to the ass-whuppin' that their boy Asa got courtesy of Guv Johnson.They had a full day to comment before the tragedy at the WTC. but did they?No. Silence. Not a single word. Oh, they posted links to the same newspaper articles that we had here on the matter. But commentary? Spleen-venting? Not a word.Their boy was ripped to shreds on a debate that will be broadcast sometime in the Fall on National Public Radio. According to accounts provided here by Sled and Morgan, the man was totally lost at sea. He had no idea about the un-Constitutional origins of the DrugWar - namely, the sneaky, underhanded and Constitutionally illegal use of the Commerce Clause to regulate what they normally would never dare touch.His total and complete ignorance of the topic was astonishingly evident. He really, really does not know. And he is going to 'run' the DEA? And knows not one whit of the origins of the very organization he is charged to administrate and the reason why it came into existence? Putting Asa in charge of the DEA is tantamount to putting a caveman in charge of a nuclear power plant. The degree of ignorance he has demonstrated is indicative of the Bush Too regime; you don't have to know anything, just be a loyal supporter and toe the party line...and keep sending money and praise to the Shrub. This dog-loyal political appointee has proven to be an embarressment to the DEA. Which is why they have been so silent on DEAWatch.I can see where this is going: the DEA boys were already livid over Asa's boy's invitation to take him to a rave, and were oh so relieved to hear that someone in DEA had told him that he better not as the rave facilitator was about to be arrested. The general opinion amongst them that they must take this clueless fool 'under their wings' until he learns how to be a properly belligerant, close-minded DrugWarrior.In short, Asa will not run DEA; DEA will run Asa.We're in for a real bad ride, especially now. Never mind the seat belts; get some cargo webbing.
[ Post Comment ]
Comment #59 posted by dddd on September 13, 2001 at 23:24:16 PT
FreedomFighter
You are an inspiration to me too.Thank you for being here.May JAH continue to Shine on You.dddd
[ Post Comment ]
Comment #58 posted by FoM on September 13, 2001 at 21:54:44 PT
freedom fighter
Your comment really helped me look up. I try very hard to keep a good attitude. It is a discipline of mine. I hope that makes sense. I work hard at it maybe is a better way of saying it I think. I made this page because I don't want them forgotten and if other pictures become available I will expand the page. I can't do anything except make a simple page and as I do I am saying to myself Tom and Rollie will not be forgotten. I didn't make a page about the WTC even though it is breaking my heart just like all of us. I feel very sorry for the Levy's too. They will not receive media attention and Chandra might never be found. Thank you for making me look up again. I needed that tonight.http://www.freedomtoexhale.com/rb.htm
[ Post Comment ]
Comment #57 posted by freedom fighter on September 13, 2001 at 21:41:37 PT
Funny things happend on my way
to the diversion office for my "appointment".Being a slave, I had to show up today. Here is the following "conservation" we had today. He was using his computer to type out and me with his notepad."How are you?"I said,"Tired but am allright."Then he goes on about my scan test(piss test) being negative. He decided not to give me another one and mentioned that he will take as many scans as he want.I nodded.He mentioned that it was my last day at the treatment class.I nodded again.Then, he typed, "How did the event in New York last tuesday affect me?"With bit of an indifference attitude, I wrote down rather carefully, " Well, I had a tough week to begin with. Two of my friends were killed in Mich. last week and now it happend in NYC."Taken back for a moment, he typed, "How?"I wroted, "100 FBI men killed them."He was bit shocked and asked me if there were any news report. I shooked my head,"No, not in Colorado. The news is down at Mich."With that he typed rather slowly as he did not know what to say. All he can say was "I am sorry." "So much pain."I nodded my head softly. " I am at loss for words. Are you going to the funeral?", he asked.I looked at him and wrote that they are already buried and creamated.My final statement, "They are good ppl. Thanks."He quietly cut the session short. I left the building feeling bit better cuz I did not have to piss into a bottle in front of him.I pray that he would check up on my statement himself. I hope that he wonders why 100 FBI were ganging up on two good men and not chasing the terrorists. He was bit puzzled as to why there were no news report on the incident at the rainbow farm. I did not mention my friends names nor did I mention the Rainbow farm. Just maybe he will do the checking on his own.Truth is I am not even angry about what happend at NYC. I am more angry about the Rainbow Farm. Heck, that incident at the Rainbow Farm is swept under the rug. I firmly believe that we are our own worst enemy. We gave the money to the terrorists who came to our country and were taught how to fly by our own people all under the guise of a drug war that was sort of put into a backburner by our own Ashcroft's statement, "We have put FBI, CIA, DEA and all law enforcement into this "Crime". I wonder what our pals at the DEAWATCH.com have to say about this?Like I have said in my previous postings, If we are at war, then who are we fighting against? Afhangs?? Tablans?? Or is it simply a war against the "United States of Consitution"?ff
[ Post Comment ]
Comment #56 posted by Robbie on September 13, 2001 at 13:35:03 PT
From Undernews...
*** ROBERT SCHEER, LOS ANGELES TIMES: Enslave your girls and women, harbor anti-U.S. terrorists, destroy every vestige of civilization in your homeland, and the Bush administration will embrace you. All that matters is that you line up as an ally in the drug war, the only international cause that this nation still takes seriously . . . The gift, announced last Thursday by Secretary of State Colin Powell, in addition to other recent aid, makes the U.S. the main sponsor of the Taliban and rewards that "rogue regime" for declaring that opium growing is against the will of God. So, too, by the Taliban's estimation, are most human activities, but it's the ban on drugs that catches this administration's attention.
Undernews
[ Post Comment ]
Comment #55 posted by Doug on September 13, 2001 at 08:49:17 PT
You Are Righ, Kap
In times like these it is very easy to herd people in the direction you want them to go. I'm sure the government has for a long time had plans about what they would do to "improve" democracy in the USA. These improvements involve less freedom and liberty for us, and more power and control for them. The ultimate goal, as it has been since the Constitution was written, is to make it safe for the wealthy. And so an horrible act like this is used as an excuse to railroad us in what they've wanted all along. All they need to do this is convince people that they have our interests in mind, that they only want to protect the citizens from these "terrorists" that are attacking our way of life. And so the people will easily give up their freedoms as they have done before. But they will only end up less free but not more safe.There seems to be a real lack of explanation on the part of the media on what causes people to hate us so much that they will kill themselves while crashing an airplane. Until we clearly look at that, we won't be able to prevent anything, but just sow the seeds for more "terrorism" to come.The United States has been supporting terrorism, and committing it for a long time -- Rainbow Farms is just a small example. People outside of this country, especially in the Third Word, know this intimately, even though the citizens here seem to be clueless. And until we do something to prevent the terrorism that we do to others, we will never be safe in out own country.
[ Post Comment ]
Comment #54 posted by honestinjun on September 13, 2001 at 07:16:32 PT
Remember when
India tested a nuclear device, and the US politicians condemned India? Imposed sanctions against the world's largest democracy? Remember the US lecturing India about how the third world is not sophisticated enough to manage conflict like America and Russia, and how peaceful talks were the way to settle the Kashmir issue?Let me remind you all that those were real terrorist attacks that took place for years. Like the terrorist attacks that Israel lives with every single day. And yet the US at one point (Colin Powell, I think) criticized Israel for a disproportionate response. Something smells funny here. By the standards that the US advocates for everybody else in the world, shouldn't the US now "negotiate peacefully" with Bin Laden? Shouldn't the US response be "proportionate"?I say to everybody on this board,welcome to the front line.And stop coddling the Pakistanis, who have harboured the Taliban every bit as much as Afghanistan.
[ Post Comment ]
Comment #53 posted by kaptinemo on September 13, 2001 at 06:21:42 PT:
Tup'pence from an old grunt
Although anyone who came here for the first time might seem confused ("Hey, is this the Cannabis News, where they are supposed to talk about re-legalization? What's going on?") the seemingly wildly divergent points that have been raised here are quite germane.We as a country rail against terrs...but few outside of this 'place' can remember just a few short days ago two men were slaughtered by the FBI in a very off-handed fashion...because of their very vocal activism in changing laws about a harmless plant. A plant that if industrially utilized, would remove forever the need to be dependant upon foreign energy sources...which is why we are busily interfering with the affairs of nations in the Middle East. Nations whose people are quite understandably angry with us for such interference. And have made their displeasure known, in the most horrific way possible.For 64 years this 'cannabis community' has endured a slow, inexorable and wholly unwarranted exercise of corporately sponsored and governmentally prosecuted (yes, let's call the spade a spade, and not an 'entrenching tool') terrorism. All under the color of law. But the results of that terrorism have shown the typical classic symptoms of a population subjected to it: paranoia concerning government figures. (Who, simply for the life of them, can't understand why they are so hated; they are just doing their jobs, don't you see? Why can't you all just be good little sheep and be penned up quietly? Your yelling about rights is unAmerican, and besides, yer givin' me a headcache.)Widespread, almost unconscious mistrust of government in general (does anyone here believe any government spokesperson about anything? Especially as now they are making noises about Americans are too free?) and a bitter, hard cycicism in the young in general that saddens an old fart like me.Many things have been done around the world by the corporately controlled military/industrial complex. Things that have rightfully enraged those on the receiving end. These thing were done with the tacit blessing of the American government. Which is largely made up of the CEO's of those corporations. Don't believe me? Look up the membership of the Council on Foreign Relations, and you'll find an almost one-to-one correllation between their names, their corporate alma maters and the positions within government many hold now. Positions supposedly divorced from their corporate origins. Positions in which they are not supposed to be unduly influenced by the wealth they have purportedly left in the care of blind trusts. Yet many of these people take 'regulatory' positions that are supposed to 'ride herd' upon the very corporations they once controlled...and will control again after leaving 'public service'.The world is far more complex than any one of us can grasp. But some things are quite easily discerned...if you have an inquiring mind. But if you are being stampeded - as I believe the American people right now are being, courtesy of all those awful images constantly being played over and over again, tugging at heartstrings and raising blood pressures - then you can be led to folly. A folly bloodily expensive for us...and richly rewarding for our self-proclaimed corporate masters. Who got us into this mess to begin with. they are not satisfied with owning nearly everything worth owning; no, they want to rub our noses in it, too. Declaring martial law and fomenting other acts restrictive of our civil rights would be their crowning achievement. For then they could finally take off the smiley masks they have been forced to wear for fear the public would learn their true natures. And we'd see the Beast for what it is.
[ Post Comment ]
Comment #52 posted by Silent_Observer on September 13, 2001 at 05:48:16 PT
I think...
I'll go back to being silent for a while...I'll come back once I get my own feelings straight, and when the venting is over.But, Lehder, dddd, NM et al...very nice bantering with you.
[ Post Comment ]
Comment #51 posted by dddd on September 13, 2001 at 03:19:51 PT
Well Spoken Lyndy
I'm glad you took the time to speak your mind.You soundlike a quality person,and a true patriot.I dont agree withall your views,but I respect them.....My Dad thinks muchthe same way you do.However,,,,,I do believe that you have been misinformed when you said;" We made the forfieture laws and we repealed them."......I'm not sure where you are at,,but as far as I know,there have been norepeal of forfieture laws?...Perhaps a very minor adjustment in somestates,,,but I would like to know what makes you think that forfeiturelaws have been repealed?Respectfully.............................dddd
[ Post Comment ]
Comment #50 posted by Lyndy on September 13, 2001 at 02:51:55 PT:
YOU'RE RIGHT STRIPEY!!
to: dddd "the security around LA is a ridculous overkill?! What do YOU suppose we do, sit on our hands? Also...I do my own thinking. Polls don't impress me. Where are you going with this? Remember, we made these laws! My generation, at one time, thought we needed a war on drugs to save our children and future generations--- We were doing the best we knew how. Maybe we were wrong--we have been wrong before but we still have the right to change those laws. We are as yet still not being shot in mass in a town square ie;(Red Square). We made the forfieture laws and we repealed them. Sometimes it's a slow process but we at least still have that "process" that our parents and grandparents fought for. Whatever major city you live by in this greatland,you can look out and see your skyline still in tack and still standing tall. This was my city. The face of it has been changed forever. Those were my brothers and sisters down there. I would think they would also be yours!! Those 200 firefighters we lost were young men the age of my sons and I'm sure many of yours. They were heros.to: not surprised-- If this is not the "greatest country in the world"---who is? I suggest you go there. If you oppose what the government is doing on Any level --get involved! Run for office--cast a vote. Hiding behind your pens, creating dissention is easy to do. Even though we have different political views, we need to unite together. Do you really want our country to fall? What kind of country would this be with no government? If you don't like things how they are, get off your collective asses and get on a podium--changes can be made!You may call him "Dubya" " Shrub" or whatever. I didn't vote for the man---but right now he is all we have. Rally behind the president of your country and stand united!!Yes, there are many things that I haven't agreed with--but today I'm hanging out my flag--and tonight I'm giving blood. GOD BLESS AMERICA
[ Post Comment ]
Comment #49 posted by dddd on September 13, 2001 at 00:22:13 PT
Stripey!!
..It's nice to see you,,,but your comment seems somewhatwreckless,,radical,,and ill considered. Blood can not be washed out with blood - Arab proverbdddd
[ Post Comment ]
Comment #48 posted by dddd on September 13, 2001 at 00:17:14 PT
Safe from Terrorism
The thing is,,,,that there is no way to be "safe" from terrorism.There is no way to prevent terrorism...If you could seal off thecountry from any foriegn terrorism,,,so what!,,you will stillnot be safe from terrorism from within the country,like postalworkers.....and then there's that radical group that I think is farmore terrifying than any misguided religious zealot,,,,,,,,,,the terrorists I'm talking about are well funded,,heavily armed,and are part of a huge organization,that is ruled by an obsessed groupof people,most of which are involved in conspiracy with wealthyprivate investors.....I think having your door smashed down by a psycho/ninja SWAT team cops is TERROR.I think being held at gunpointwhile your house is ripped apart and pillaged is terrifying....I think it would be terrifying to have your home and property sprayedwith roundup.....I think cops are terrifying.....terror is part of life.I guess it might be necessary to,,after all,if there was no terror,thenthere would be no opposite of terror,,,,,freedom and joy?????dddd
[ Post Comment ]
Comment #47 posted by New Mexican on September 12, 2001 at 23:55:32 PT
New Moon on Sept. 17th...
and I recommend we all do ceremony, drum, pray, make a wish list for peace, light a candle and take advantage of the opportunity to create a sustainable future for the planet and its' beings. This will work and that means Peace is at hand. Focus on the reality that you want to manifest and it will be. These events coincide with Rainbow Farm and are connected in many ways, symbolic of the great changes ahead. Change would improve our lives and is unstoppable. Let go of fear (ex: lets' retaliate or they'll attack more, this will continue unless WE stop. Is any other country being attacked right now for being a bully, or is it just us. Just us I think.Peace
[ Post Comment ]
Comment #46 posted by FoM on September 12, 2001 at 23:30:24 PT
My Feelings
I don't think we can be secure against terrorist right now. It's too soon. It only happened yesterday. We are vulnerable. That's reality to me. The impact of the amount of people that died hasn't hit us because we really don't know how many are dead but when we know that will make everyone do some serious thinking. I sure am up late. I'm about ready to get some sleep but my mind is going round and round.
[ Post Comment ]
Comment #45 posted by Cannabis Crusader on September 12, 2001 at 23:17:17 PT
Preventing Terrorism
Is there really any other effective way to combat terrorism besides declaring martial law? They admit that there are 100's of individuals that are associated with terrorist groups in the US, and they're almost certain that there are more that we don't know about.Seriously, how can we combat this without martial law?
[ Post Comment ]
Comment #44 posted by FoM on September 12, 2001 at 23:09:26 PT
Imprint
You're welcome. I think we need a place to be able to vent our feelings without risk of someone blasting us for whatever reason. I really am a non fighter by nature. ( Except when I did drugs and drank ) Then I was a bit looney! lol!
[ Post Comment ]
Comment #43 posted by FoM on September 12, 2001 at 23:06:00 PT
Cannabis Crusader
I understand what you are saying. My husband felt he could go to Chicago and I know he will be ok but I can't help but worry. Martial law could be declared and families could get separated from one another. That is the worst case senerio but in this time a possibility. MikeEEEEE couldn't get home into NYC until today I think, when he posted here.
[ Post Comment ]
Comment #42 posted by Cannabis Crusader on September 12, 2001 at 22:57:03 PT
FoM
I share your concern. My fear is that the longer we wait to retalitate the more likely we will be hit again. Especially, since we have already promised to retaliate. In addition to this, right know it is "open season" on the US for the 100 or so other terrorist groups that really hate the US. We could be easily manipulated into taking actions we wouldn't otherwise take, if another terrorist group chooses to attack us. Right now, any attack will immediately be credited to Bin Laden, whether or not he was responsible. That's what I mean by "open season."
[ Post Comment ]
Comment #41 posted by FoM on September 12, 2001 at 22:47:05 PT
Cannabis Crusader
I am concerned that this is only the beginning. The one thing that they could use is biological warfare. Silent and deadly. An invisible enemy. Gives me chills just thinking about it.
[ Post Comment ]
Comment #40 posted by Imprint on September 12, 2001 at 22:44:28 PT
polls
I want to take a moment and thank you all. These are really troubled times. And to have a place I can go and express my self and not be afraid of retaliation for my thoughts is a real comfort. Thanksdddd,Ya know I’ve never been polled and I do often wonder just who these people are that supposedly do get polled. It often makes me feel like I’m on the outside trying to look in and see what the heck is going on because I’m not part of it. So, I’m going to make up my own poll. Did you know that 100% of the people on cannabisnews want an end to the drug war? Great poll, huh?
[ Post Comment ]
Comment #39 posted by Cannabis Crusader on September 12, 2001 at 22:39:48 PT
Question.
Does anyone think this attack could be an attempt to coax the US in to sending the bulk of the US forces to be ambushed?Really is far fetched, but something really stinks here. Bin Laden had to know we would retaliate with a force a 1000 times more powerful and devistating than anything he could muster up. Something's just doesn't seem right here. The US by no means needs to commit an act of hubris at this time.
[ Post Comment ]
Comment #38 posted by Cannabis Crusader on September 12, 2001 at 22:34:23 PT
Stripey
If you dance with the devil, the devil doesn't change...the devil changes you.
[ Post Comment ]
Comment #37 posted by Cannabis Crusader on September 12, 2001 at 22:32:27 PT
dddd
You are absolutely right!!!!!!!The use of polls have been a crucial propaganda weapon due to the fact that about 98% of the population don't understand how to interpret them. And the media knows this and abuses the hell out of it. Ignorace has been proven to be this nations worst enemy!
[ Post Comment ]
Comment #36 posted by Stripey on September 12, 2001 at 22:31:46 PT
Before. . .
Before bleeding-heart liberals start to worry about "Innocent" Afgans, think about all the innocent people that died yesterday. Think about them. It's time to take action, and all of the Talibans and Muslims dancing in the street are as evil as the men in the cockpits of those planes. This is America. If you don't like it, move out. I refuse to let some camel-jockey bastards kill my countrymen, then not respond in kind because of the sanctity of life. Fight fire with fire. the only way they'll learn is to kill them as indescriminantly as they kill us. It's a sad world, but you have to play the game to avoid being a victim to it. If you don't like it, there are dozens of countries that will take you.We are a more free nation than most of the rest of the world. Stop bitching about minor freedoms and all this happy crap about American Terrorism and let the government save our asses like they have for hundreds of years. You say that all of this is wrong, but if the government hadn't been killing, we'd all likely be dead.
[ Post Comment ]
Comment #35 posted by dddd on September 12, 2001 at 22:27:11 PT
Polls,,,,Who Polls Who?
...Beware of any poll that you hear....Polls are little morethan a propanda ploy....Whenever we hear that a "poll",saysX % of people support this,,or are against that,,,IT IS BULLSHIT! A "poll",somehow always seems to be be credible,and believable,,but think about it,,,,how often have you heard where the "poll" isfrom?Have you ever heard them say who was polled?,,or how theywere polled,,what questions they were asked,,,,nope,,I heard on thenews tonight that polls say that the country is behind Bush,,andthat a majority of the people think we should retaliate against terrorists,,and that Bushs' popularity was way up,,,and that gives the impressionthat everyone in the country is thinking a certain way,,,,,,but thesepolls are just blindly accepted by the sheeple,,with no explanation ofwho was polled,,,for all we know,,the poll was done amongst 20 hardcore republicans who work for the shrub......BEWARE of polls.....Surveys have proved that they are 99% raw propaganda designed for political manipulation of the people by the evil empire,,,and I saw a poll that said 46% of people think polls cant be trusted,,,and I took another poll that shows that 86% percent of those polled believed that polls should be looked at as fake CRAP....dddd
[ Post Comment ]
Comment #34 posted by FoM on September 12, 2001 at 22:17:38 PT
Imprint
I don't fly unless it is an emergency and hopefully I won't need to do it ever again. If they tighten security at airports that is ok with me. I want freedom though but only our personal freedom. I want people's home to be their sanctuary. I want the war on drugs stopped. Now our country is feeling the effects that people in Colombia feel whose lives have been forever changed by our drug war. Maybe this will humble our leaders. It might. I'm just trying to be a little hopeful because everything is so dismal.
[ Post Comment ]
Comment #33 posted by Cannabis Crusader on September 12, 2001 at 22:16:04 PT
Something to think about
It is easy to loose our cool in light of the attacks and massive loss of life that occurred Monday, but we as a nation need to keep our heads about us in such a stressfull time. Everyone needs to stop and think about the results of an attack on Afghanistan and Pakistan. Especially, since Pakistan has nuclear capability and militant Islam have proven that they are willing to give their own lives at the drop of a hat. There is a good possiblity that the nukes may be brought out due to the religious aspect of this situation. If nuclear weapons are used, the U.S. would be adding a few zeros to the current death toll. I believe I speak for everyone when I say no one here wants that.My opinion on this matter is mixed and I am glad I am not the person to make this decision. On one had if we do nothing the attacks will almost certainly continue and possibly escalate. On the other hand, if we attack we could be risking wiping out the entire human race. Not a good thing at all. It is truely a damned if you do and damned if you don't situation. However, from what our single digit president said, we may have no choice but to continue with our promise of retaliation. If we make it through this ordeal, I truel believe everyone needs to protest against prohibition. Prohibition has created a quick way for any terrorist organization to raise massive amount of funds. In some cases more money than many countries have that exist today. This is just not acceptable. That amount of money could result in a "true" weapon of mass destruction falling into the hands of those willing to use it. I am not sure if we really want a war where the enemy resides here in the U.S. We have much more to lose than our status as the super power of the world. We could easily lose all of our civil liberties and possibly our lives.It is truely a scary time. If we can draw any conclusions to what will happen next based on the US's illogical policies toward drugs, then the worst is yet to come.May God have mercy on us all.
[ Post Comment ]
Comment #32 posted by Imprint on September 12, 2001 at 22:02:29 PT
Poll
I heard a ABC poll that among other things pointed out that a majority (something like 66%) of Americans are willing to give up some of there personal freedoms to stop terrorism. On the surface this seems OK; for example if I take a flight across the country (or international for that matter) I would be subjected to tighter security (not sure what that would mean, they seem to check everything already). This seems to be OK. But, I’m worried that other liberties would be lost in the process; for example tight security checks to travel in my car across the country. Or the FBI monitoring my Internet activities. I believe the FBI has issued some kind of warrant to force America OnLine and Earth Link to allow them to monitor the users. I’m getting the sense that most Americans (66%) don’t get this and we are doomed to surveillance in almost every aspect of our lives.
[ Post Comment ]
Comment #31 posted by FoM on September 12, 2001 at 22:01:31 PT
dddd
I heard them talking about our attitude toward people of the world! I was shocked but I heard it. He said we have to think why people don't like us. The man( I can't remember his name or which news channel.) said we must stop trying to make countries do what we want. We must stop pushing other countries around! That was great to hear.
[ Post Comment ]
Comment #30 posted by FoM on September 12, 2001 at 21:56:13 PT
Why I posted this article
Hi Everyone, I spent time looking at this article and wasn't sure if I should post it but I decided these are unusual times and many people gather here and are worried so I did. It was the top article on the Washington Post tonight. Sad times. Very sad times.U.S. Lines Up Support for Strike http://cannabisnews.com/news/thread10898.shtml
[ Post Comment ]
Comment #29 posted by dddd on September 12, 2001 at 21:36:08 PT
Dichotomy
..I almost cant hack it,when I hear the presidunt,and all theother phony cronies say that this was "an attack on freedomand liberty",,,,,,,but in reality,,these politicians are the oneswho have been diminishing our freedom,and libertys for years,and now they are preparing to make further,more drastic lawsthat will curtail our freedom.This is all developing into some kinda surrealistic nightmarecircus from hell...The only thing being talked about in the media,is how this could be prevented in the future,,no talk of why peopleare pissed at us...The US is the master of terror around the world.dddd
[ Post Comment ]
Comment #28 posted by Kathy on September 12, 2001 at 21:04:58 PT
War and Peace
The bombings are a terrible tragedy. Although I do not like the WTO and the corporate monsters that are eating up the natural world with their greed, I do not advocate violence as a means to an end. Terrorism is an awful thing, whether it is done by the government against people like at Rainbow Farms, or done against the government. A lot of innocent people get hurt. I fear there will never be an investigation now into the deaths at Rainbow Farms.....it is overshadowed by the recent terrorism in NYC and WA....and PA/target missed. Now what will the US do? War with Afghanistan? The US trained and befriended the man they now pose as the main suspect/public enemy number 1....a good question to ask is, why does he hate US? Maybe the answer to end terrorism is to straighten up right here, right now.....to be a more humane society, to be more peaceful and diplomatic, to work harder for world peace. The answer is not in violence and weapons.....when the press and government say what happened is a "worst case scenario" they are wrong----it could be nuclear, and no matter who is doing the aggression, it will be the worst case scenario......because the nuclear monster tears apart the fabric of life for future generations, altering DNA of the survivors forever, and the mutations are debilitating. Faces without eyes, bodies without arms or legs, such are the Chernobyl children. The DNA of their family lineage, is forever ended as God creatd it. So anyone wants to rush to vengence, war is an ugly monster, and it takes its victims, always, among women, children, young and old, innocents, environments, the future......yes, I hope those guilty of crimes will be punished, but pray for peace, not war.
[ Post Comment ]
Comment #27 posted by E. Johnson on September 12, 2001 at 20:43:25 PT
Robbie I know how you feel
Just saw Tom Daschle on national television advocating the curtailing of "certain" freedoms in the wake of this crisis.And to think I used to vote for those bastards.I was attempting yet again tonight to get a formerly fellow Democrat to care about civil liberties.Oh but they might drill Alaska! Fine, we can preserve Alaska and drill some new holes in the remaining unspoiled territory in the Constitution instead.
[ Post Comment ]
Comment #26 posted by The GCW on September 12, 2001 at 20:37:08 PT
Is Bush a terrorizer?
Show me a nation that cages its citizens for using cannabis, including theverymost sick amongst us, and I'll show you a country that is not practicingfreedom. Bush has just brought in Hutchinson and Walters, both intenton fighting the states that have voted to allow medical marijuana usage.That is something when states vote for that freedom, and the prohibitionistpoliticains try to squelch that freedom. That is taking freedom andterrorizing it, destroying it, disregarding it, and then take it further andblack mail the rest of the world to partake in that evil hatred. I am notfree! Bush, may well be the president to take more of our freedoms awayfrom American Citizens than any other president. Please, take notice.Observe, Pray, to our Holy Spirit of Truth, and you will know. There isimplications of giving up more freedoms, for the war on terrorism. Allwhile we kill humans for growing plants, THAT IS AN ACT OF TERRORISM!!Our country has been an oppressor in the world. Our country has beenwaging a war on its citizens for my entire life. Wemost need a peaceful solution to this pain, for when we heal, we want toheal with our Father. We can not partake in the bad example of the mid Eastin their warring back and forth, for my entire life, and we don't want tostart or provoke a nuke extravagansa.Unfortunatly, it seems evident, Bush aint no God walker, he seems tostumble on the very 1st page of the Bible when he stands staunchly firm inhis quest to continue the war to cage his brother for using cannabis. He isopposed to allowing humans to use cannabis for medical pain relief, whichconvieniently helps his profits remain strong in his family controlinginterest in Lilly Elly Pharm. etc. ANDWhere arethe ministers? Where have the ministers been when our leaders speak ofkilling and caging our brother and neighbor for using plants? Why is therenot a line of ministers ready to say: Hold it, we can not as a Godly Countrykill people for using plants (including cannabis also known as kaneh bosm,before the King James Version), for it is against what we have beeninstructed by our Gods Bible, the owners manual?
[ Post Comment ]
Comment #25 posted by The GCW on September 12, 2001 at 20:30:25 PT
another one from T.J.
Thomas Jefferson: "Hemp is of first necessity to the wealth and protectionof the country". Found on the back cover of, The Great Book Of Hemp.Even on a Biblical scale.
[ Post Comment ]
Comment #24 posted by The GCW on September 12, 2001 at 20:28:16 PT
Think Indian Peace Pipe & DRINK of the cup.
The Indians have tried to growcannabis for their basic survival in the Dakotas and have been confronted bythe Government and stopped, twice now. Keep in mind that during, what wasit the World War 2, America made the laws banning cannabis, temporally nulland void so America could grow cannabis for our nations survival needs.So, the big government will grow and use cannabis to survive, but will stopthe Indiansfrom growing it for survival.
[ Post Comment ]
Comment #23 posted by The GCW on September 12, 2001 at 20:25:02 PT
Imprint, Which way to go?
Gotta Go with Christ God. When it's time to Go, if you go with out Christ God, you'll just be like all the rest, that you are uncomfortable being associated with. If you condemn the killing then there is no way that you can partake in their shame. Christ God, stands for peace, simple as that. That's from the owners manual. Someone, please help Bush mon to the owners manual and please help him focus and stay focused. Perhaps suggest stop waging war on his own citizens.
[ Post Comment ]
Comment #22 posted by FoM on September 12, 2001 at 19:50:32 PT
Imprint
I don't think we will be able to do him in. He has evaded capture for a long time. Anything we do will hurt innocent people. I'm glad I don't have to decide. People died in our country and now innocent people will die in another country. War is Hell!
[ Post Comment ]
Comment #21 posted by Imprint on September 12, 2001 at 19:43:07 PT
To kill or not
Would killing Osama bin Laden be a good thing? On one hand we have endured attacks on planes, embassies, navel ships, military buildings and now the pentagon and WTC. At what point do we say “screw it” and kill the bustard? On the other hand, would it really stop the terrorism? Does it really fix the big picture? I’m on the fence with this and I’m afraid I’m going to fall and get splinters. Which way should we go?
[ Post Comment ]
Comment #20 posted by FoM on September 12, 2001 at 17:45:37 PT
MikeEEEEE
Hi MikeEEEEE,I'm glad you are ok and home. This is unreal. I have a headache. I haven't had a headache in a long time. Get some rest. I have no idea where this will lead us but it sure isn't going to get any better at least not for a long time.
[ Post Comment ]
Comment #19 posted by Rambler on September 12, 2001 at 17:39:14 PT
Afganistan
I got a feeling there going to start bombing them very soon.The media has been building up to it.
[ Post Comment ]
Comment #18 posted by MikeEEEEE on September 12, 2001 at 17:24:52 PT
Catnipper
In the Nostradamus, he writes:In the City of God there will be a great thunderThe night before the 2 jets crashed into the buildings there were big thunder storms all over the New York City area.
[ Post Comment ]
Comment #17 posted by MikeEEEEE on September 12, 2001 at 16:58:42 PT
Hello Everyone
I'm back. It's incredible what happened in NYC. I remember taking walks in the mall below the World Trade Center, and watching people getting into the elevators; I can’t imagine some of these people died. I didn’t work in the World Trade Center; I worked in 1 Liberty Plaza (36th fl), next to it, as I watch TV now 1 Libery Plaza is about to collapse.I was watching the media a little today, something I don't often do. The warriors are declaring war and comparing these incidents with Pearl Harbor. Remember: Revenge breads hate and loss of liberties.Lets hope for the best, I’m very tired. Lets not forget all the injustices, including the Drug War.See you soon.
[ Post Comment ]
Comment #16 posted by Catnipper on September 12, 2001 at 16:52:46 PT
america under attack by the Illuminati
We are urging the wrong guys for legalization!The world is reigned supreme by the Illuminati!All big corporations, and most countries, are owned and controlled by them!To make sure that they will persist and rule as long as possible, they cause incidents, murder, start wars, world wars, do everything needed, to divert from themselves and to keep the world predictable.Since the outcome of a war, can be controlled. Centuries of peace, however make them vulnerable to revelation.They brainwash each generation and spread havoc, to keep humankind at bay. Since they control science,they can keep inventions secret for centuries and decide release dates.They make sure the existance of the Illuminati is believed a myth and conspiracy theories are laughed at.Yet they still communicate via the same old method:The number 23.Here is the PROOF:9/11/2001 = 23 of Elul 5761 (Jewish Calendar)9+11+2+0+0+1 = 23911/2001 = emergency of the new milenium, World War III Shown on CNN, during the reporting, the phone number1-800-932-8555, and refering to www.united.com1+8+0+0+9+3+2 = 238+5+5+5 = 23united.com press releases:9/11/2001 05:23 PM EST____23_____5_23last word of paragraph before paragraph showing the above numberCEO = 3+5+15 = 23link from united.com to american red cross -> the other numbers seen on CNN:US Air Force 1-800-253-9276253 = [11] * 23276 = [12] * 23[11]+[12] = 23[1+1+1+2] = {5}1+8+9+{5} = 231,8 and 9 being the leftover digits...Jesus how far do coincidences go?US Air Force is 100% owned and controlled by the Illuminati!Pentagon 1-800-833-66221+8+8+3+3 = 231-_8__0_0-_8__3_3-_6___6__2_21-2^3 0 0-2^3 2x3-2*3 2*3 2 2__2+3_____2+3 2+3 2+3 2+3 2+2+1 __ 23_____ 23_ 23_ 23_ 23_ 22+1 1-2^3 0 0-2^3 3 3-2*3 2*3 2 2___2_______2_______2___2__2_2__ ___3_______3__3_3__3___3_______ Hacking the code of the 23 is time consuming, so I'll stop here for now.Nostradamus, a traitor of the Illuminati?edited:"In the year of the new century and nine months[September 2001], from the sky[Aircrafts] will come a great King of Terror[ism]...The sky will burn at fourty-five degrees. Fire[Planes' Fuel] approaches the great new city[New York]..." "In the City of God[USA, with its leaders having god status[to heck with the constitution, everyone who dares disagree with us will die[eg. rainbow farm]]] there will be a great thunder, Two brothers[Twin towers] torn apart by Chaos[No evidence? Terrorism?], while the fortress[Pentagon] endures[Only partially destroyed], the great leader[Bush? USA?] will succumb. The third great war[World War III] will begin when the big city is burning." Whoever brought this Nostradamus quote up, which verses are you refering to?PS.: Laugh at this all you want, but keep in mind you could choke on it. Even if it's not the Illuminati, consider:Conspiracy - what makes those theories laughable?Conspiracy - what is the agent preventing it?Conspiracy - what makes you think it doesn't happen?Conspiracy - why don't big corporations work together for their common goals?Conspiracy - what makes governments immune to trillions of dollars offered, for doing donators certain favors?Conspiracy - what is the downside of it, when the advantages are wealth and power?
[ Post Comment ]
Comment #15 posted by Reko on September 12, 2001 at 16:26:03 PT:
response to comment #9
I agree (to your thought about the U.S. being attacked) 100%. Many poepl around me say thinkg like, "how can some one do this, this is terrible..." Yet we (the U.S.) oursevles have pulled the same kind of stuff. A few years ago, what was it that we did to (sorry if im wrong, I didn't pay much attention to it at the time) I believe Kososvo. It was they, or those opressing them that we reaigned fire on them, bombing them from afar, all night long casugin mcuh damage on THIER government/official buildings. The difference in casualties or tha fact that we "failed miserably" doesnt matter, it was the intent. Another point tothat is the fact that the media (as someone else in this post said) is so altered by high officials, the U.S. goverrnment may very well know WHY this happened, but the fear of a revolution of some sort kept them from lettig it out. Who knows...Another point that I would like people to give me some inputon, is if they think that the president and politicians, congress, etc. are too concerend about how they look on TV and in their speeches and about their money and campaign funding to get their job done the way it needs to be done. If someone feels very emotional about a subject, they should be emotional about ti in their speeches. Pres. Bush looked like he could care less in his speeches. The more into it an official is, the more into it the people are.Another thing that had gotten me to think, is (which again, some else has posted about) how the anti-terrorism funding has gone up. Well, this could be considered terrorism, but how can one go into the minds of EVERYONE. They can't, and what I believe will result is this (if they do "random" searches) will become a deal of racism and/or discrimination. If 20 white/caucasian (sp?) passangers and 2 lets say, arabic passanges get on the plane, i would be willign to bet most anything that those 2 'different' passangers will be searched and possibly not let on the plane, which I believe is wrong.About tthe marijuana illegalization deal. From my understanding, which was just word of mouth, tobbacco lobbyist filled voters minds with myths or over exagrations(sp?)on the few negative health effects. Why? Because marijuana sales were taking a lot of money out of the pockets of the tobbacco industries. Can anyone input on this for me as well?P.S. please do not tell me I cannot spell, I already know :)
[ Post Comment ]
Comment #14 posted by Robbie on September 12, 2001 at 16:13:42 PT
Forgot!!! The vigil is at 7PM
7PM
[ Post Comment ]
Comment #13 posted by Robbie on September 12, 2001 at 16:10:31 PT
And on another matter...
Just saw Tom Daschle on national television advocating the curtailing of "certain" freedoms in the wake of this crisis.And to think I used to vote for those bastards.
Tom and Rollie
[ Post Comment ]
Comment #12 posted by Robbie on September 12, 2001 at 16:08:11 PT
SF Bay Area
There is a vigil calling for an end to the hatred of and the physical attacks on Arabs and Arab-Americans.Snowpark in Oaklandcorner of 19th street and Harrisonhttp://maps.yahoo.com/py/maps.py?BFCat=&Pyt=Tmap&newFL=Use+Address+Below&addr=1950+harrison+st.&csz=Oakland%2C+CA+94612&country=us&Get%A0Map=Get+MapPeace be with us all.
[ Post Comment ]
Comment #11 posted by dddd on September 12, 2001 at 15:42:34 PT
preparing the sheeple
Have you noticed that the coverage of all the pressconferences,and the news.All the questions from reportersseem to on insufficient security,and intelligence,,,as if thiswas the main concern of the public.....the flocks of sheepleare being subtly and subliminally primed to accept new andabsurd actions in the next few days.Bush wants to declarewar,,on a nameless enemy.Perhaps it will be like the "Waron Drugs",,but it will be called "The War on Terrorism"...Why not,,,people have already been conditioned that "drugs"can be an "enemy"..so it will seem OK to declare a new waron a nebulous and undefined enemy like "terrorism".Security measures around LA are already at a ridiculous overkill...dddd
[ Post Comment ]
Comment #10 posted by The GCW on September 12, 2001 at 15:14:08 PT
platform
I received an e - mail requesting thoughts and thought others would like to comment how you feel, er how you have felt about not actually enjoying all the freedom were having.---------------What are you doing to cope with our nation's tragedy? Are you donatingblood? Flying the flag? Have you touched bases with family members to get asense of security and familiarity? What are you telling kids about whathappened?And please let us know if someone close to you was a victim in Tuesday'sattacks.The Spokesman-Review wants to hear from you. As part of the ongoing coverageof Tuesday's terrorist acts, we're asking readers to comment forpublication. We plan to publish comments in the newspaper and on our Website.Please take a minute to respond. Make sure to sign with your name and yourcity.Thanks,Ken SandsInteractive EditorThe Spokesman-Reviewkens spokesman.com
[ Post Comment ]
Comment #9 posted by Not surprised. on September 12, 2001 at 14:13:16 PT
Not surprised by what happened.
I saw it coming - it was only a matter of time. Our government perpetuates the evil greed of the criminal organizations that run this country, while the CIA helps them control the media to mold public opinion in their favor. This country with 5% of the worlds population has 25% of all prisoners in the world - yet this is "the land of the free"?! This country is not the "greatest country in the world" - we may have the most money and the most military power, but that does not make us the greatest. Far from it, our government makes us the most wasteful and destructive country on the planet, and through "new world order" imperialism they their spread destructive greed around the globe. The reason there are so many demonstrators at WTO summits, is because they have legitamate grievances. What does all this have to do with decriminalizing cannabis? If cannabis was decriminalized, then the prisons could be emptied and the extra money used on eduction instead. Hemp could be utilized in a many ways while also saving the few stands of ancient forest we have left. Keeping cannabis illegal is perpetuating a lie against all of us who know better - we know they are doing it for their own greedy reasons, NOT because it's a harmful drug. Around the world we have got to change what we're doing that makes others want to give their lives to attack us - we are obviously doing some things wrong. We throw money at "friendly governments" and the poor people who populate the countries never see a penny - that has got to change. I hope to see more viable political parties evolve and campaign finance reform happen in my lifetime, because that seems to be the way to a trully democratic state. The "two party" system is controlled by one big criminal organization - they have the money and power now, and they don't want to let it go. Violent revolution may be the only way to make these changes happen, or maybe this tragedy will shake things up enough to cause radical change to happen? Our government invited this tragedy by its own evil greedy policies abroad.
[ Post Comment ]
Comment #8 posted by Comandante Null on September 12, 2001 at 11:12:33 PT:
United Airlines Flight 93 from the Tonkien Gulf,
A “Terrorist” Distraction and United Airlines Flight 93 from Tonkien Gulf Viet Nam.This is a distraction that has many benefits for those whom would have a police state. It is very much a time to watch liberity's back.Remember that while this attack might have been executed by "real" terrorists they may have followed the path of least resistance which was cleared for them by U.S. Intelligence. Remember also our recent propaganda push (IRA/FARC/ETA etc.) to link all "terrorist" organizations to each other.Comandante NullOut
[ Post Comment ]
Comment #7 posted by E. Johnson on September 12, 2001 at 11:07:02 PT
Does this shed light on the Taliban opium ban?
I never understood why the Taliban became so cooperative all of a sudden and agreed to give up their only source of trade revenue by banning opium farming and declaring it anti-Islamic.Maybe they got so agreeable because they needed some heat taken off so they could give the Bin Laden people time to plan and train for this attack in Afghanistan.Maybe they used our disporortionate focus on the War on Drugs to distract us away from the terrorist threat they were actively planning?
[ Post Comment ]
Comment #6 posted by pissedonandoff on September 12, 2001 at 10:06:41 PT:
2500 die every day....
in the Congo. Up to 6 different countries may be killing 2500 people a day with bullets, starvation, and disease. Maybe 3 million have been killed already and haw many people know about it much less care?
[ Post Comment ]
Comment #5 posted by Doug on September 12, 2001 at 10:04:39 PT
An Act of War
News commentators and the President are calling these events an act of war. They do seem a bit behind the time. America has been at war with the rest of the world for a long time, and we've felt very safe behind the walls of two oceans, and with our powerful jet aircraft that can rain destruction down from on high, while we don't even get our feet wet.So these acts are just the latest skirmishes of an ongoing war. Until we realize that there is a war, and not a "War on Terrorism", we can't do anything to stop this war. An I'm afraid we -- the United States -- will only keep increasing the violence. I wonder if this is how people felt when that saw the Archduke killed in Sarajevo?
[ Post Comment ]
Comment #4 posted by The GCW on September 12, 2001 at 09:23:39 PT
responce to the preceding story comments.
This is a responce to the other story: Powell Flies Home After Terrible, Terrible Tragedy I have read all 98 comments and wish to address some of this. Thomas Jefferson: “Hemp is of first necessity to the wealth and protection of the country.”http://www.cannabisnews.com/news/thread10896.shtml article quotes:"A terrible, terrible tragedy has befallen my nation ... once again we see terrorism, we see terrorists, people who don't believe in democracy, people who believe that with the destruction of buildings, with the murder of people, they can somehow achieve a political purpose," a somber Powell told a meeting of the Organization of American States (OAS) in Lima. "They can destroy buildings, they can kill people, and we will be saddened by this tragedy, but they will never be allowed to kill the spirit of democracy. They cannot destroy our society. They cannot destroy our belief in the democratic way," Powell said.It is aparent that what is goose for the gander is unexceptable for the ... they don’t like it but as they crossed God’s line w/ Crosslin, they have been crossed, and there is nothing democratic about killing him, ;yet they try to make that perception of deceipt.comment #10 by kaptainemo: They know that in times of crisis, it's easier to put through anti-Constitutional measures than it is when things are calmer, less hurried. They are waiting their chance. To put through the kind of anti-Constitutional measures that would empower them to do what they want...to us.... PLUS, what is: Macchiavellian?comment # 15: In short, it pays sometimes to listen to your intuition. Mine says "Don't trust the government for half the distance you can spit."#34: This is not news that is unrelevent... When Powel says what is quoted above: we are seeing the government squirm funny, for reasons that are paralell to what they have given to others... like Crosslin, like killing people in columbia, like deceipt to support caging the unfathomable amount of citizens for just using cannabis... By all accounts America has ingaged in terrorist activities directed toward our own democracy, toward our own freedom to use such a benign substance plant as cannabis. The Bible says it, (not me) that judge not for you will be dudged in the end by the same means...#38 et al. again terrorist activities are what we have been witnessing by our own government perpetraited on its own citizens...#49: Religious zealouts are usually one who are unable to know the Bibles true meaning yet use their deceipt for wrong, since they are failing to come to the conclusions of the Bible through the Holy Spirit of Truth... Christ only taught peace and love, never kill kill, kill... which is a sort of revealing way to see who believes in truth and who believes in lies.#50: keep in mind it does not any longer have to be the good people that are terrorist who kill innocent ones, but that we have ingaged in terorist activities against our own brother and neighbor that we open up our selves to that wrath. It becomes aparent that when we have the favor of God we have safety, security, #51: quote: Religion has a wonderful way of rearing its ugly head. Fact is there are 2 different kinds of religion: that is w/ and w/o the Holy Spirit. One is an ugly head: with out God, and one is with the Holy Spirit of truth, and that is never ugly, but always true. ...#52: quote: Most all wars are based on a religious belief gone haywire; and the moderator asked me not to say that.... I was cut off from Marijuana.com, for the same and it opened my eyes to their evil... I was dissed for my belief that God gave us kaneh bosm, and it is a blessing... and that when you add the Gastapo to SWAT it = SWATSTIKA. That statement among others brought some discontent from Mar.com to the point that I am of the oppinion that marijuana.com is a place controled by cops etc... This situation along with others that occured consistantly made me sence that there was evil in charge with that site, and in control.#53: quote: Religion and spirituality are different. Religion uses dogma to lead people. Spirituality is personal and individual enlightenment. Realize that there is both, BUT REALIZE THAT THEN THERE IS ALSO BOTH WITH AND WITH OUT THE SPIRIT OF GOD. YOU CANNOT SERVE 2 MASTERS, AND SO BE CAREFUL NEVER TO SERVE AN EVIL MASTER. THERE ARE EVIL SPIRITS TOOOOO. When someone says they serve the spirit of God, they may even think they serve God, but may well be deceived by Satan the God of Evil, and not even know it, but they have already let in a bit of evil bad seed and it IS being nurished and it grows. That is not the same as realy truely serving God, which as far as Christ is concerned, (the one who has the receipt for our purchase), there is only to be compassion, pease, love etc. There is NO ALTERNATIVE. We are surving God, Christ God and the Holy Spirit of Truth to stay grasped by God and continue grasping God therough the Holy Spirit of Truth. By the way: This is ONLY possable through the Holy Spirit, for I am the biggest wimp, except thrugh the Holy Spirit, for with out the HOly Spirit I am only dangerous...#65: quote: “I predict a better, brighter world comes from the ashes of this disaster, as that is the nature of the Uni-verse”. It is written that things will be brighter after the ashes, but it will be because of God, not more terrorist.#74: It’s not just ridding us of the bad genealogy of Bush, Bush, and Bush... but replacing him with some one who has a genuine relationship with the Holy Spirit of Truth.#75: Another Jefferson quote: “Hemp is of first neccessity to the wealth and protection of the country.” from the back cover of Hemp for health.Talk about paralell!!!!!!!!&!+ quote: “Well, I was also going to mention the Rainbow Farm Murders as a waste of FBI resources, considering they could be tracking down terrorists”. (tracking down the terrorist? They WERE THE TERRORIST!!!!!&!#89: martial law will allow the government to treat many American people like the bad guy. It will be used to further the agenda of compromised security and freedom. It is all used against us, and not for us!!!!!&!#91: The American Gov. CIA, has a history of being drug dealers... does that mean they should be subject to the same... This bad genealogy controlls and was controlled by the Bushes... I do not trust government. I don’t trust the police. I don’t trust the President, I don’t trust Bush... I would not be surprised to find out in the end that Bush has some control in what occurred. I believe Bush is covertly responsable. He may well be a part of this all being orchistrated. Just one of the many many implications for this insight is the verge of smiling he displayed on his 6:30 speach. He was as close to smiling as possible w/o breaking out with laughter...#98: Doctor: How right... I may well look like Ben Ladin or like Jesus Christ. I have brown skin.
[ Post Comment ]
Comment #3 posted by FoM on September 12, 2001 at 09:20:55 PT
Know Your Enemy
If you want to fight a war you must know your enemy. One time we did know our enemy but the lines have blurred. I'm not sure why the lines are blurred but these are some of the reasons I believe.At one time integrity, fairness and concern for human rights were who we aligned with, but now we have mixed up the word moral and we aren't sure what moral really is. Money has blinded the eyes of our leaders. I had more to say but can't put it down in words very well. I hope you all understand.
[ Post Comment ]
Comment #2 posted by Ethan Russo, MD on September 12, 2001 at 09:16:28 PT:
Bravo, Sudaca
As I tried to say yesterday, if we as a nation permit true American ideals such as freedom to erode because of this act, than the terrorists have won, indeed.These commentators seem sage. Maybe they should help coordinate a response.
[ Post Comment ]
Comment #1 posted by Sudaca on September 12, 2001 at 09:03:18 PT
Don't close your eyes
At some point someone in this forum linked to one of the possible conspiracy stories on the ether. It involves the US being jerked around by a group of people (in power today definitely) which believe in Hegel's dialectic, of thesis + antithesis = synthesis. These people believe that by causing conflict they can predict the outcome, an outcome which they desire , prolonging their power. The story is that this group, of a "godwarrior" mentality, has been willing to jerk America's chain by specific acts of violence that shock this country into conservantism , anticommunism, now xenophobia.. intolerance.Regardless on whether the Skull&Bones are for real or not, we can certainly see how yesterdays nightmare is causing a call to restraining of freedom, the increase of gov't surveillance and so forth.Well, listen. The attacks used were clever, low tech, and based on something absolutely undetectable - human beings with a fixed purpose, intent to die and destroy. How will surrendering freedom and living in fear prevent that? How much money does it take to inspect millions of peoples minds?The challenge is to open society, shall we roll up, close down and let us be led into a new age of military dominance?If this country is convinced to look at the world as enemies not only will the rest of the world suffer, the United States of America will too, every citizen will be caught in this trap.
[ Post Comment ]
Post Comment