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  Supes Vote To Persist With MMJ Challenge
Posted by CN Staff on December 13, 2006 at 07:34:50 PT
By Gig Conaughton, Staff Writer  
Source: North County Times 

medical San Diego, CA -- As expected, San Diego County supervisors voted Tuesday to continue their controversial legal challenge to overturn California's 10-year-old, voter-approved medical marijuana law.

Board Chairman Bill Horn said the board voted in closed session to appeal Superior Court William R. Nevitt's week-old ruling that dismissed the county's argument that California's Compassionate Use Act should be pre-empted by federal law because federal law is "supreme."

The county's challenge has national implications, patients and government officials say, because it marks the first time that any county has sued to overturn any of the medical marijuana laws voters have approved in 11 states.

California's Compassionate Use Act, approved by 56 percent of voters statewide in 1996, says that seriously ill people who have a doctor's recommendation can use marijuana to ease their pain and suffering.

The federal Controlled Substances Act says marijuana has no medicinal value and is illegal in all cases -- even though it also says that synthetically created tetrahydrocannibinol, the active ingredient in marijuana, does have medicinal value and can be prescribed by doctors.

Despite the seeming conflict between California's law and the federal law, Nevitt dismissed the county's pre-emption argument last week. Nevitt ruled that there was no legal conflict because California's law did not compel people to break the federal law and that federal agents could still arrest marijuana users.

Nevitt also ruled that in some cases, state's laws are "supreme" over federal law.

Horn, however, said Tuesday that the county supervisors believe in their argument, and would file an appeal with the California's 4th Appellate District.

"We feel that the judge skated (over) the entire (pre-emption) issue," Horn said. "We've gone this far. It just behooves us to go the next step."

San Diego County supervisors angered local medical marijuana patients and state and national medical marijuana advocacy groups in December 2005, when they decided to file their lawsuit to try to overturn the Compassionate Use Act, formerly known as Proposition 215.

Supervisors said the act was "bad law" and would promote drug abuse.

However, patients who say they use medical marijuana for a host of serious problems, ranging from severe burns to crushed spines, cancer and other ailments, have repeatedly told supervisors over the last year that marijuana was the only drug that seemed to help them.

A number of those patients attended Tuesday's meeting to ask the board not to appeal Nevitt's decision, and to instead follow state legislation and create a medical marijuana identification card program to help them.

Point Loma resident Ronald Little said marijuana was the only drug that helped save his mother-in-law's eyesight, by reducing the intraocular pressure in her eyes that was making her go blind.

Little suggested that supervisors were sacrificing patients "on the altar of your drug-war ideology."

"I just think it's reprehensible," Little said.

However, a number of speakers from parent-teacher associations and drug-prevention groups challenged the patients.

They urged supervisors to appeal and continue their fight to overturn the Compassionate Use Act.

Kevin McClure of the San Diego Prevention Coalition said the law was aiding drug trafficking and threatening California's youth.

"In our opinion, the true intention of Prop. 215 hides behind the facade of terminally ill patients," McClure said. "And it has been used as a smokescreen for ill-intentioned profiteers to make a case for selling marijuana without criminal liability."

Horn, meanwhile, said Tuesday's testimony did not figure into the county's vote to appeal and continue its fight.

"No, not at all," Horn said. "I think it's a bad law. I mean, as far as the benefits, those are medical opinions. There are probably some medical benefits, if you listen to the (patients). But that's not our point. Our point is who has jurisdiction here (the state or federal government).

"We didn't get that from this judge, so we're going to appeal it," he said.

Horn said the supervisor's closed-session vote was 4-1, but would not say who opposed the appeal.

Despite the lack of unanimity, the board's appeal was no surprise.

All of the current supervisors opposed Prop. 215 when it was put on the ballot in 1996.

Last week, John Sansone, the county's lead attorney, said he thought Nevitt's ruling left room for an appeal.

Meanwhile, Vista resident Craig McClain, a longtime medical marijuana patient, said he was not surprised by the news Tuesday night.

McClain says he uses marijuana to ease the severe spasms he suffers from a construction-related accident that crushed his spine and left him with six screws holding his pelvis together. He attended Tuesday's board meeting but did not speak.

"Oh, I knew they were going to appeal," McClain said. "You could look at their faces, and it was the same exact deal. They smile and they look at you, but there's a coldness to that room that is just incredible.

"I mean, I don't want to speak ill," he said. "But there's a definite coldness. I guess we're going to the Supreme Court."

Complete Title: Supes Vote To Persist With Medical Marijuana Challenge

Source: North County Times (Escondido, CA)
Author: Gig Conaughton, Staff Writer
Published: Tuesday, December 12, 2006
Copyright: 2006 North County Times
Contact: letters@nctimes.com
Website: http://www.nctimes.com

Related Articles & Web Site:

Americans For Safe Access
http://www.safeaccessnow.org/

San Diego County Board Votes To Appeal Ruling
http://cannabisnews.com/news/thread22448.shtml

Courts Give Some Victories To The People
http://cannabisnews.com/news/thread22446.shtml

County: Ruling on Pot Lacking
http://cannabisnews.com/news/thread22445.shtml


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Comment #97 posted by FoM on December 18, 2006 at 11:45:40 PT
Had Enough
I'm looking forward to hearing what you have to say. Have you looked on http://www.petfinder.com That is how I found my second dog and she is sweet. She just doesn't like cats. You can put in your zip code and ask for a picture too. It's worth a look.

[ Post Comment ]
 
Comment #96 posted by Had Enough on December 18, 2006 at 11:36:34 PT
re: #95
No, but I looked at the first one yesterday. Young Female. I had four German Shepherds wanting me to pet them all at the same time. It was cool. I spent about an hour petting and rubbing these dogs. It felt so good. I was covered with their hair, on my shirt, pants, shoes and all. When we got back there was dog hair all over the seats and on the floorboards, I loved it. We drove 2 hrs one-way to see this dog; she was beautiful, smart, and energetic. But maybe not the right one. But it still felt really, really good to mix with these dogs.

I really have a lot to tell you about the last couple of weeks. I can’t do it now but I will later, and I will do it on an older thread so I won’t interrupt the current topic.

[ Post Comment ]

 
Comment #95 posted by FoM on December 18, 2006 at 11:17:12 PT
Had Enough
Can I ask you if you got a puppy yet? Life would be so drab without my dogs. They sing along to America The Beautiful in two part harmony from LWW. It's really funny how Neil even makes my dogs sing.

[ Post Comment ]
 
Comment #94 posted by FoM on December 18, 2006 at 11:14:47 PT
museman
Have a nice day. I know that CSNY are working on something from the tour but I am not sure what or when it will be released. The video on the new LWW will be great. I really liked the studio recording of Greendale too.

[ Post Comment ]
 
Comment #93 posted by museman on December 18, 2006 at 11:06:23 PT
FoM
Thanks.

The video nailed it good. That is my new favorite of Neil.

Thank God for the Neil Youngs of this world.

Now I got sooo much stuff to do. I'll try and stop by this evening...

"Onward through the fog!"

[ Post Comment ]

 
Comment #92 posted by FoM on December 18, 2006 at 10:52:22 PT
museman
Neil is streaming the studio version without the choir on his web site today of Restless Consumer. I am looking forward to the new CD-DVD's release tomorrow if they carry it at Walmart since that is the only place to shop around here.

Don't need no more lies!

http://www.neilyoung.com/lwwtoday/

[ Post Comment ]

 
Comment #91 posted by Had Enough on December 18, 2006 at 10:51:30 PT
museman

Don’t sweat the small stuff. Whig is just the way Whig is. Take it with a grain of salt. He has been throwing darts my way ever since he discovered I was posting here.

In time this will subside, similar to an energetic puppy, in time that puppy chills out, if provided the opportunity, exercise, and time to do so. 10 years or so from now Whig will understand what is being said here today, and he will think fondly of this minute space in time. He will actually miss old Had Enough, museman, and the rest of us.

I really like your words. They are made of truth. Most, but not all, run parallel with my thinking. I like to see my thoughts written with words, however I’m not very eloquent with getting my thoughts down on paper. But you my friend can do it well. When I read and hear your stuff, I get to see my thoughts written by you and get a good feeling knowing that others feel the same about some things I spend time thinking about, and are making an effort to share with the world I would really miss reading your stuff if you chose to move on. Your music too!!!

I have seen where you describe your self as Pessimistic. I see something different. Frustration. Frustration from watching the injustices of the world, and very few paying attention to what’s going on when being pointed out during efforts to stop it. I’m there too, like many of us.

Peace, the world could use a little of it.

[ Post Comment ]

 
Comment #90 posted by museman on December 18, 2006 at 10:42:43 PT
FoM _ Hope_Had _enough
I do not require that whig 'apologize.' If he does I'll probably feel more uncomfortable than anything else. As far as I am concerned, we can all move on to the next page. I've covered all the ground on this dispute that I felt necessary, and probably even somewhat redundant. You have covered much as well from your own unique perspectives. I really hope to meet some (or all) of you one day.

Today is another day.

Peace, later.....

[ Post Comment ]

 
Comment #89 posted by FoM on December 18, 2006 at 10:25:36 PT
museman
I understand what you are saying. I am very easy going too but I have limits to what I can handle. I keep my frustration in and after I do that for a long time it starts to make me feel sick and then that is enough and I will stand up.

[ Post Comment ]
 
Comment #88 posted by museman on December 18, 2006 at 10:04:29 PT
y'all
I lost some sleep over this one last night. Debated with myself this AM in bed before I got up, searching for the right, or at least a decent response.

I am not looking for a fight -with my allies and comrades. I feel bad about whigs reaction, and I know of his youth, it's apparent, but in the final analysis my decision to just ignore the personal stings and otherwise continue seems to have been one of my few palatable options.

I do not wish, ask, or expect whig to leave the forum, his energy and contribution is just as valid and real as anyones. But youth aside, FoM merely went along with his stated wishes (which obviously came from a space of pain of some kind) and he stepped out the virtual door by his own volition.

The slights are just that, slights - minor irritations, easily forgiven as we have such bigger fish to fry. I do not wish to dwell on minor points of dis-agreement with anyone -it's non-productive. But I also don't want to have the 'need' go there becoming an almost given everytime I use a metaphor -especially one that I didn't invent- to illustrate my point. Playing with metaphors and semantics can be fun, if everybody is willingly playing the game, but when the game ends up being a stopgap to communication, I for one feel a need to draw the line, at least for myself personally.

I am not angry. I am sad. I have compassion for many, but in following the dictates of my own conscience and experience, there are lines that just don't get crossed. I had to learn these limitations just like anyone. I wouldn't let my own children get away with such things, so I'm not going to support (the errors I percieve of) other peoples children whose parents did let them get away with it (for whatever reasons).

The truth, and Love are not always entirely pleasant at first glance, sacrifice is exacted for those sentiments in this world, and true love is tested and tempered with fire. Fire burns away dross, error, and asssumption, but when the smoke clears, what is left is real.

When I was a young man, I was a modern-day 'gunslinger.' Mostly done as a musician, when some arrogant egoistic guitar player would challenge me to a showdown, I would enter into the contest with some glee, because I knew something that they obviously did not (a musicians secret) and as I left them in the musical dust, I got a kind of satisfaction out of it. I didn't look for the contests, they came looking for me, just like the old 'fastest gun in the west' thing.

I think that at some point the result wasn't nearly as satisfying, because I ended up hurting some fragile egos that didn't necessarily need the lesson at that point in their life. So I hung up my 'guns'.

A few years ago, I took those guns down, polished them up, and keep them ready at hand. I am not so quick to draw, but rest assured if I get hit enough times, I will shoot back.

I believe in turning the other cheek, twice....but the third time baby you better run. That's just me, it's the way I am, have become, and not likely to change all that much at this point.

My 'guns' aren't made of material, they are made of truth. They only hit the mark when that is the case. I've learned to 'soften the blow' a bit, but you can't soften it too much, or it is ineffective.

Whig has his own will, and I am not in his way. My posts and comments are usually intended as generic statements having very little to do with 'persons' at all. I attack systems, and ideologies, I put down institutions, and 'organizations', I discern and assess philosophic attitudes. I do not address persons (as cause or blame, unless the facts speak loudly -like in the instance of our 'president'), nor accuse anyone of anything. I have tried to make this clear. I might get a little heated up from time to time, but I really try to avoid including persons in my rants.

Whig does not have to leave on my account. I can agree to disagree with anyone and move on from there. If I am consistently backed into a corner of having to explain myself -even after the explanation has been forthcoming and reiterated, then a change of some kind is dictated. I don't want to have to use my guns on my allies and friends, where is the profit in that?

Thank you all for what you do, and say.

[ Post Comment ]

 
Comment #87 posted by FoM on December 18, 2006 at 09:45:26 PT
Hope
You are a very smart and kind lady! Thanks!

[ Post Comment ]
 
Comment #86 posted by Hope on December 18, 2006 at 09:43:07 PT
Meanwhile....
We must all stand, side by side, together, arms locked to be the juggernaut moving against the injustice of cannabis prohibition and all it's "unintended consequences".

We're all connected. Let's keep it tight.

[ Post Comment ]

 
Comment #85 posted by Hope on December 18, 2006 at 09:36:03 PT
Had Enough
Good suggestion about the birds.

Taking care of another creature is usually beneficial to most people.

Don't get Love Birds though! What a misnomer!

They are noisy, mean and destructive, at least mine were. Running loose they tear up books, plants, and the blinds!

My nephew has an aviary and raises birds. The bird noises attract cats...so they have to be cat proof.

[ Post Comment ]

 
Comment #84 posted by Hope on December 18, 2006 at 09:28:01 PT
"Roll on big Museman! You're a joy ....
Don't know why I put that in quotes, since I was the one saying it. I think because I was thinking of "Roll on, Big River."

Regardless, I mean it.

Roll on, Big Museman! You, so much, are a joy to my soul!

[ Post Comment ]

 
Comment #83 posted by Hope on December 18, 2006 at 09:24:58 PT
Whig....You're a brilliant man, too.
I've tried to understand why you are the way you are and why you speak to people like you do. It's not because you're Jewish. I know that. One of my all time dearest friend is a relocated New York City Jewess.

Both her parents are wealthy doctors. We were different but had an attraction to each other...as people. We connected. (Cept maybe the time I showed up at her place with a new leather bound New Testament with her name inlaid in gold lettering on the cover...and there stood both her parents, visiting from New York. The situation went well enough, considering the patience and the wisdom her family exhibited to my loveing "blunder".)

I think maybe your years of terrible pain and sickness with your hip bones has effected the way you respond to people. Like you would if someone were physically hurting you or you thought they might be....simply by having their own thoughts.

You've had to be careful that other people didn't cause you unnecessary pain and that's carried over into other aspects of your life.

You "slap" people in the face, in print, on the internet....when you call them names.

You "keep your stinger out all the time" is what it could be called...or another way of saying it is that "You bow up" (like a cat arches it's back)over things, very easily.

That's part of who you are, too. But sometimes people have trouble being around people who "bow up" easily or "have their stinger" out all the time. It sucks the life and joy out of even strong people.

My daughter coined the term "funsucker", when someone she knew just couldn't bear to walk into a room full of people enjoying themselves without putting a stop to it all. He hated for other people to enjoy themselves, it seemed. So he became the original "funsucker".

Defensiveness is being "bowed up" and ready to claw and scratch anyone who comes near. Defensiveness isn't actually defending...it's a form of offense. It's a wall...and when you throw a wall in people faces...you get just that....a wall between you and whoever you are being defensive with.

I don't think you would want to throw up a wall between you and Museman or you and anyone. But that's exactly what you do with your words.

You are brilliant in many ways. Your opinions are valuable...but all too often, your opinions come across not so much as part of a conversation, but as a blunt instrument.

You've had to be a quick draw artist to keep people from hurting you....but sometimes the people you lash out at now, had no intention of even accidentally causing you pain...so ease up on the defensiveness and give in the humility of really trying to understand what's being said and being as thoughtful as you are capable of in your response. It's about respecting others as much as you want respect.

Your sense of defensiveness may tell you, "How dare she? She's forgetting I'm a grown 32 year old man!"

I'm not forgetting it. You are my friend...although it be a "prickly" friend. I accept you the way you are, but you are capable of smoothing out your "rough edges" as you move through life, just as the rest of us are also capable of it. I'm still working on filing down rough edges on my personality, even now...after 58 years. Keeping yourself in check is never ending and it shouldn't be.

In my opinion, brother, you owe our brother, Museman an apology.

Yeah! It happens to the best of us.

[ Post Comment ]

 
Comment #82 posted by FoM on December 18, 2006 at 08:52:34 PT
Hope
That was beautiful.

[ Post Comment ]
 
Comment #81 posted by Hope on December 18, 2006 at 08:48:20 PT
Museman...you are a brilliant man
and your family and the home life you made for them is awesome and admirable. I admire the beauty of your family and how you did it more than I could ever admire the man who neglected his family to build an empire of wealth.

To not let you be you would be a tragedy and a loss for us all.

I for one, appreciate the tenor of your wisdom as well as your wisdom and life experience.

I'm just a cowboy trying to be a housewife and clodbuster and brush clearer and I think it's wonderful that I kind of know (and love) a real hippie, not someone who just dresses like one, but one who has devoted himself to a certain lifestyle and is a very good and decent man in my estimation.

"Roll on big Museman! You're a joy to my soul."

[ Post Comment ]

 
Comment #80 posted by Had Enough on December 18, 2006 at 07:20:07 PT
Hey Whig, You’re for the Birds!!!

You need to mellow out.

Do you have any pets? If not, maybe you might consider adopting one.

You don’t seem like a dog or cat type person, but maybe a bird might fit. I have known people who have birds, they are cool. I’ve let them climb on my arms, legs, shoulders, and head. Birds definitely have personalities.

One of our neighbors has an Avery in his back yard. You ought to hear these birds sing. A wonderful sound. When they start with their songs, it used to get the attention of our dog. Her ears would be directed right to where the sound was coming from. But for some reason, sometimes, I think she had more than the sound of their singing on her mind. :)

Have you ever watched a large bird open a Brazil nut? They can have it shelled in one piece in less than 15 seconds. Try that with your everyday nutcracker.

One guy I know kept his cage door open all the time. The bird used to sit on his perch and dance back and forth bobbing his head. When you entered his apartment, the bird would come out to check you out. When he was done he would go back to his cage. He loved that cage, and the apartment, it was his home.

Some of these birds talk, now that is the kind you should get. You could teach it many things to say if you spent the time with it. Sometimes they repeat what you say to them.

I know very little about caring for a bird but I think Greastone might know a little about the subject. I think he has Parrots. Four of them.

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=talking+birds

http://search.ebay.com/birds-talking_W0QQfnuZ1

[ Post Comment ]

 
Comment #79 posted by FoM on December 17, 2006 at 21:36:37 PT
BGreen
Everything will be ok. All I want is to get on with changing the laws on Cannabis as best as we can. To move on and give the Democrats a chance at least with medical marijuana since they seem sympathetic towards it. I don't like when people are yelled at and I don't like being yelled at. I don't believe it's nice. I don't think having manners is out of style or obsolete. If it is we really are living in a messed up world.

[ Post Comment ]
 
Comment #78 posted by BGreen on December 17, 2006 at 21:01:30 PT
I know you're not angry, FoM
I've never even met anybody face to face, but you've met whig. You know how young he is yet you know his sincerity.

Whig has to understand YOUR personality, too. I've learned that sometimes you just need us to refrain from doing certain things that bother you, no matter how strongly we feel we can change your mind.

I can exist within the limitations of not causing you emotional strain. You're worth it, Cannabisnews.com is worth it and the rest of the family doesn't need the emotional toll that I'm feeling right now just because we're all a bunch of stubborn people.

I have matured to the point that I can empathize with the way everybody feels about this, but I don't think you would have tolerated my youthful over-excitability, no matter how sincere I was.

Then you would have never known me as the sweetie pie I am today. LOL

The Reverend Bud Green

[ Post Comment ]

 
Comment #77 posted by FoM on December 17, 2006 at 19:20:27 PT
BGreen
I believe that time can fix everything. I'm not angry. I actually don't get angry very often. It takes way too much of my mental energy. It's not good for my health or my husband's health. That must be my priority.

[ Post Comment ]
 
Comment #76 posted by BGreen on December 17, 2006 at 18:52:17 PT
Oh, come on!!!!!
Enough!

We're family here!

We can't get pissed at each other and leave.

FoM, we can't let this happen.

Whig, please, fighting for what you believe in is vital, but you've got to pick your battles.

Museman, you've got a lot more life experience than whig, but me and whig are a lot like you. Please don't let this go on.

I just can't stand losing more family members.

The Reverend Bud Green

[ Post Comment ]

 
Comment #75 posted by whig on December 17, 2006 at 18:01:06 PT
One more thing
Merry Christmas and Happy New Year.

[ Post Comment ]
 
Comment #74 posted by whig on December 17, 2006 at 17:58:00 PT
Bye
Love to all.

[ Post Comment ]
 
Comment #73 posted by FoM on December 17, 2006 at 17:56:35 PT
Whig
It probably is best that you move on then. Enough is enough.

[ Post Comment ]
 
Comment #72 posted by whig on December 17, 2006 at 17:49:29 PT
FoM
I can't withhold my opinions if other people give theirs. That's unfair and impolite to me, to have to sit and listen to others and hold my own silence.

If you want to rule the whole topic out of bounds, that is fine and I will abide by your restrictions. If you think it is alright for people to express opinions that you agree with, but disallow mine, then I'll go.

[ Post Comment ]

 
Comment #71 posted by FoM on December 17, 2006 at 17:30:48 PT
Whig
I don't mind if you stay but I want you to stop throwing out your opinions when someone says something that you don't agree with. Just use some self restraint. That's the polite thing to do.

[ Post Comment ]
 
Comment #70 posted by whig on December 17, 2006 at 17:25:39 PT
FoM
Do you want me to leave CNews? I don't really know if I am welcome to share my thoughts here. I don't want to make you unhappy by remaining. I can move on and most people here know where to find me.

[ Post Comment ]
 
Comment #69 posted by whig on December 17, 2006 at 17:20:07 PT
Museman
I do not want to contend with you. We are on the same side, after all.

We have different upbringing, and different experiences, and different understandings. You are free to believe differently, and practice as you wish or not at all, and what you do is between yourself and God.

Whenever religion is discussed here or anywhere, there are bound to be differences of interpretation, and every establishment of religion fractures on such lines.

Every single one.

We don't have the ability to read one another's minds or know precisely where we are all coming from.

[ Post Comment ]

 
Comment #68 posted by whig on December 17, 2006 at 17:14:45 PT
FoM
Let me make my point and move on, because I don't want to belabor it -- Museman expresses dislike for people that have more money than him. Some people pursue wealth, and step on people to do so. Some people are simply given more.

It upsets me to hear people condemned for nothing they have done.

[ Post Comment ]

 
Comment #67 posted by whig on December 17, 2006 at 17:12:44 PT
FoM
I disagree with Museman.

[ Post Comment ]
 
Comment #66 posted by FoM on December 17, 2006 at 14:58:00 PT
museman
Thank you.

[ Post Comment ]
 
Comment #65 posted by museman on December 17, 2006 at 13:57:39 PT
FoM
Wisdom.

[ Post Comment ]
 
Comment #64 posted by FoM on December 17, 2006 at 13:40:38 PT
museman
This is how I look at ideas. We are different and no one is 100 percent correct but we should be allowed to say how we feel personally without fear of attack by anyone. I learn from people's views and I learn how someone feels and that's good. It doesn't matter if I agree because every new idea we ever have gotten in our lives is met by doubt and then in time it might make sense.

[ Post Comment ]
 
Comment #63 posted by museman on December 17, 2006 at 13:33:32 PT
FoM
It ain't over til it's over. I can see what you say, and I'm sorry too, but since this seems to be a personal issue, In do not hold the forum and our other cyber friends and comrades in that revealed light, so I choose to not respond only to the obvious attacks, particulary if they are only from one person.

I know that everyone here doesn't agree totally with what I believe, and that's ok...you guys let me be me, and I appreciate that more than you know.

One has to be willing to get shots fired at them if they undertake the truth in this world. One has to know when to duck, as well, or as Kenny Rogers said;

"You got to know when to hold 'em, know when to fold 'em, know when to walk away, know when to run."

We are all different. We live in geographically, and culturally different spheres. Perspectives are different. The fact that we CAN find agreement at all in is in itself a modern miracle, by my estimation.

No real harm, but lesson learned.



[ Post Comment ]

 
Comment #62 posted by FoM on December 17, 2006 at 13:01:25 PT
museman
I want to say that I really appreciate your comments. I don't post much anymore because I don't like being told I'm wrong for how I feel. It's hard and I'm sorry. We had fun here for a long time.

[ Post Comment ]
 
Comment #61 posted by museman on December 17, 2006 at 12:47:53 PT
nitpicking
"Although there is no historical evidence that such a gate ever existed, through frequent repetition the idea has attained the status of virtual dogma in some circles."

Virtual Dogma.

I'll say it again;

Virtual Dogma

I stand firm and stolid in my knowledge of the truth. As Hope confirmed, regardless of the semantic nitpicking (for what reasons other than some kind of one-upmanship?) the facts AND the truth are explicit enough, even if my explanation is thwarted by one-line inuendos and half-ass assumptions. I at least save my personal accusations for confirmed actuals, not emotional response (cause if I did, I'd just have to go back later and fix it).

I've lived my convictions, my observations, and my Revelations. My credentials are lodged in the mind of God, and for me, I believe that is enough. If those who do not know continue to act as if they do, they themselves are going to find out.

I do not frequently post here (as much) anymore for a couple of reasons.

Cnews and I have parallel interest. We all (hopefully) believe in the unjustness, and criminality of marijuana prohibition. In this cause, I see it's root to be the same as the root of all the other error that is in the world. I am aware that the fact that the power rich are the actual major holders and actors of error and fault, and therefore the active elements that need to be addressed, and changed.

To support the error out of some sense of personal need to 'be right' is an error on top of error. Word games have stifled more honest attempts at true communication and dispensation of new thought and idea, than brute force these days. Doublespeak is not limited to Big Brother, anyone can get in the game.

I do not take kindly to accusations like 'you are a hypocrit' - which by the way is easy to say when you know nothing about which you speak.

When the archangel Michael was wrestling with satan, and was winning, Satan hurled all manner of accusations at Michael. But Michael, knowing just where it was at, and that to enter into satans game was to lose it, said "May YHWH rebuke you!"

There is a fine line between judgement/accusation, and actual statement of observation of the facts. Stating facts is not judgement nor accusation, though the powers who love to play the obfuscation game, and try to shift the awareness away from their own culpability, will be quick to label the truth as a lie, and vice versa.

I know where that line lies. Anyone is welcome to challenge my conclusions, with substance, not picayune semantical misdirection. If I err, I will gladly accept the correction. However if I am 'corrected' by opinion only, with no actual new information, just a persons unwillingness to agree, I can see no reason to give credence to it, or to continue beating my head against a wall.

Thus in order for me to continue to participate in this otherwise great forum, I'm just going to have to ignore certain antagonistic goads and inuendos.

This is the reason - demonstrated for all to see, why I don't believe that even those who claim to champion good causes can find enough agreement sometimes to amount to anything other than a lot of words. And agreement is essential in any group of people who actually want to accomplish anything.

Irregardless of the few, things are being accomplished. There comes a point when one must draw the lines of how far they will allow themselves to be drug into semantical word games-which only obscure the goals, and become stumbling blocks in the face of progress. I think I have reached that point.

I am not a camel, and my 'burden' was given to the universe a long time ago. I took no 'vow' as YSHWH told us it wasn't a good idea, yet I had no illusions of the errors of materialism, and no amount of lame excuses to justify that core error of humanity can penetrate the truth, so I chose not to go there. Nearly forty years of persecution, prosecution, prejudice, bigotry, violence against my person and family by those who 'uphold the status quo' have steeled my conviction, and because I have (or at least made a grand attempt) lived my life according to more divine standards than the afore mentioned status quo, one may attack my foundation all they may, it will serve them naught, but to bloody their metaphorical head.

To have to validate my sincerity at every turn, even to the point of repeating myself, is not something that I am willing to do very much of.

If one doesn't want to agree, but can't actually come up with a viable argument, then please just forget it and move on. I am not here to argue with my supposed comrades but to speak to the world through this forum. If my words are consistently belittled and picked at for some sign of error and mistake - by only one person - then it is time to stop feeding that one person with any credibility. So I won't respond any more to that one person.

I got to draw the line somewhere, or just move on myself. I enjoy this opportunity to share, and discuss, but I don't NEED it. I certainly don't need what I've been getting lately.

peace

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Comment #60 posted by FoM on December 17, 2006 at 10:27:42 PT
Hope
If you get the History Channel I hope you get to see this show called The Naked Archaeologist. It's really good. It's on now that's why I thought of it.

http://www.visiontv.ca/NakedArchaeologist/index2.htm

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Comment #59 posted by FoM on December 17, 2006 at 07:44:26 PT
Hope
Very well said.

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Comment #58 posted by Hope on December 17, 2006 at 07:41:37 PT
A whole camel through the eye of a needle?
Whew! It can be done. But it won't be easy.

I can butcher that camel and make camel hair and bone and guts hardened thread of him! ( I couldn't really...it would have to be a road kill camel.)

The point is...it's harder for a wealthy person to understand some things that the people who have nothing can understand easier.

I've also noticed that "good" people have trouble with the concept of the Kingdom of Heaven. They are good and decent. They don't lie. They don't steal. They treat other people fairly and honestly and with respect. They haven't done anything wrong... and they don't have a guilty concience.

It's so much easier to be humble when you realize there are plenty of things to be humble about.

The wealthy person generally knows where the next meal for his children is coming from. They know how they will be able to afford school clothes and supplies. They don't know what it means to have to cry out to the invisible God for help of any kind. They are blind to the invisible works of God. A poor man understands the little miracles of everyday life easier than someone who has no need of miracles or help.

The wealthy get in the habit of thinking they can get whatever they want or need without help from God...because they can purchase the help they need, unlike the poor...who must often cry out to God for help.

Learning that some things, like the Kingdom of God, and knowing God, and having a sense of Agape love. None of these spiritual things can be bought with money.

It's hard for a wealthy person to let go of what he has, material wealth, for the hope of an invisible something that he can't see.

It's easier for a poor man to let go of the every day struggle and his few, if any, material possessions. It's harder for the rich man...because wealth is so much a part of their everyday lives and they would be lost, in their minds, without it. It's their life.

The camel and the eye of a needle is a warning, whether it's a literal needle or a place a camel had to be unloaded to get through.

It's a warning to all of us.



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Comment #57 posted by FoM on December 17, 2006 at 06:37:28 PT
Whig
Please stop correcting museman everytime he post. He is right in many things he says.

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Comment #56 posted by whig on December 16, 2006 at 23:51:48 PT
FoM
I agree.

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Comment #55 posted by FoM on December 16, 2006 at 21:39:19 PT
Whig
What something means to me is right for me but not necessarily right for others.

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Comment #54 posted by whig on December 16, 2006 at 21:33:07 PT
FoM
"I always felt that the eye of the needle was the eye of a needle. The most important thing about that Scripture to me shows how hard it will be for a rich man to get to Heaven. I feel what something says in the Bible. It's very basic to me. We are on a journey."

It is hard for anyone who has sinned, and who has not sinned?

Fundamentalism is taking the scripture literally when it is a metaphor.

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Comment #53 posted by whig on December 16, 2006 at 18:13:57 PT
museman
Do you take a vow of poverty? Then that shall be your curse of penury. We punish ourselves, you see.

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Comment #52 posted by whig on December 16, 2006 at 18:07:32 PT
All saved.
People who comfort themselves in the belief that others will go to hell, themselves go to hell until they learn their lesson.

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Comment #51 posted by whig on December 16, 2006 at 18:02:08 PT
museman
I have this against you, you do not practice what you preach. You offer despisement to those who have done nothing more wrong than to be born to more than you, and God's inheritance is not so paltry as you might think.

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Comment #50 posted by whig on December 16, 2006 at 17:57:58 PT
museman
Do not be so quick to judge. The Wikipedia article you cite states:

Another common explanation of the figure, first recorded by Theophylact of Bulgaria in the eleventh century, was that Jesus was referring to a certain gate in Jerusalem called Needle's Eye, that was built so low that a camel could only pass if it entered kneeling and unencumbered with baggage. The lesson would then be that an eternal inheritance awaits those who unburden themselves of sin, and in particular, the things of this world. Although there is no historical evidence that such a gate ever existed, through frequent repetition the idea has attained the status of virtual dogma in some circles.

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Comment #49 posted by FoM on December 16, 2006 at 15:00:07 PT
museman
The pursuit of money and the pursuit of God don't mix very well. It takes energy to do both of them and one or the other will suffer I believe.

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Comment #48 posted by museman on December 16, 2006 at 13:20:02 PT
FoM
"The most important thing about that Scripture to me shows how hard it will be for a rich man to get to Heaven."

Exactly. So why else dispute it? Unless you have an agenda which includes either becoming rich, or kissing the rich asses which abound in all the places of authority.

To accumulate wealth beyond ones needs is greed, pure and simple. Wealth needs a punative system of laws, armies, police, and numerous offices of government and beurocracy to defend and assure it's perpetuation. Wealth determines 90% of all material actions taken in the world today. Materiality is directly associated with, and defined as wealth.

You cannot have your wealth and practice Agape Love, or true generosity, or in my mind even a modicum of humanity. Wealth, it's aquisition, accumulation, and the control and power that go with it is the aspiration of demons. So it is only logical to assume that the spirit served by this wretched sample of humanity, is certainly one that we do not want to go with us when we leave this place.

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Comment #47 posted by museman on December 16, 2006 at 12:58:55 PT
compromising truth
The selective interpretation of scripture is one of the mainstays of religious power structure. Before the population was educated enough to read for themselves, the Priests had an incredible amount of lattitude. Myths and legends abound. The wonderful thing about Y'shuas words and deeds, is that there were several written records from various sources which confirm most of the history we have come to know as the "Greatest Story Ever Told."

The metaphors and parables of Y'shua, in my mind, and studied opinion have no parallel, even though a lot of them were a reiteration of proverbs and ancient wisdom found in the sayings and records of the Torah.

The idea of twisting an obvious interpretation like the fact that "the eye of "A" needle" is not "the eye of "THE" needle" can only be because the rich man who wants to believe he can 'follow Y'shua' cannot do what Y'shua asked, which was what he asked Nicodemus to do. This is COMPROMISING TRUTH, or in strait up language= constructing a lie.

A lot of mistakes are made in attempting to understand some of Y'shuas' parables, and most of those are directly related to 'power-christians' (Popes, Cardinals, Kings, Princes, and now politicians) who - when nobody could read to dispute their claims- created all these mythological misdirections to confuse the actual truth, for the sake of their own power, for perversions, and in some cases deliberate satanic switches in doctrine and ritual.

Ultimately the truth cannot be changed, it can be whitewashed, hidden, justified with all manner of semantic tweaks and 'language substitutions', but in the end when that rich man stands at the gate, if he did not give it up first, the gate will not open and he will be left standing outside in the cold gnashing his teeth. All the rich who believe that providence has something to do with their 'inheritance of superiority' as if they were given the exclusive rights of 'caretakership' of a substance which they themselves invented, are going to be severely disappointed. My severist disappointment in this fact, is that I will not be allowed to gloat and laugh back at the bastards who did all this to my life, times, and planet, as they GET THEIRS.

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Comment #46 posted by FoM on December 16, 2006 at 12:32:41 PT
museman
I always felt that the eye of the needle was the eye of a needle. The most important thing about that Scripture to me shows how hard it will be for a rich man to get to Heaven. I feel what something says in the Bible. It's very basic to me. We are on a journey.

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Comment #45 posted by museman on December 16, 2006 at 12:22:43 PT
the eye
http://www.eyeoftheneedle.net/

http://www.debunker.com/texts/needleye.html

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eye_of_a_needle

http://www.ensignmessage.com/archives/needle.html

Need I go on?

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Comment #44 posted by museman on December 16, 2006 at 12:11:37 PT
whig
The needle is what you use to sew clothes together, all other myths have been debunked.

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Comment #43 posted by whig on December 15, 2006 at 16:09:53 PT
museman
The needle was a bridge under which a heavily laden camel could not pass. This was a way of limiting importation into the city.

Do you know that anyone can set aside their burdens and enter?

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Comment #42 posted by FoM on December 15, 2006 at 12:24:48 PT
museman
I understand what you are saying. We put up lights outside this year and others out here have put up lights even though we really are out in the middle of the country. I love the lights because they are pretty. We watched The Polar Express the other night and it was very good. Some of the traditional shows we really enjoy. Tonight The Year Without a Santa Claus is coming on. I love that movie. What I avoid is the shopping frenzy that goes along with Christmas. People helping people is the Spirit of Christmas to me.

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Comment #41 posted by museman on December 15, 2006 at 12:10:05 PT
FoM
We celebrate Solstice, complete with a solstice tree (which is where the idea of the 'christmas tree' came from in the first place), presents - which are opened one at a time a few days preceding solstice, and then the total on Solstice morning. We feast. It is a time for family. This year I have consented to be 'traditional' for the sake of one of the youngest members of the family - my grand nephew who is 2. And I have promised to keep my 'Bah Humbug!'s to myself.

For me this time has always been traumatic, and has only lessened with time. Most of my 'christmas memories' are filled with disappointments, as the materialism has always been the focus as far as I can see - at least in my life experience. Having to explain to 7 children why Santa brought more toys to their wealthy neighbors than to them caused me to throw Santa out the window a long time ago.

If I could have gotten away with it, I would have kept television completely out of our lives, but I knew that it would only create resentment on their part, so I allowed for the toys and devices of the status quo into my home. However I set certain rules in place which have rarely been broken. As my children have come into adulthood, and some maturity, they have also for the most part come to see the errors in the system, and thanked me for the hard line I took on not allowing the faulty beliefs of the status quo any leeway in my home.

If I must compromise with error in order to survive, that is one thing, but I do not worship the beast in my house, and the erroneous conceptions of mainstream propaganda meet the flaming sword of truth with no exceptions. We know here what is meant by "being in the world but not of it." and "Render unto Caesar that which is Caesars, and unto God that which is God's."

It's a constant struggle to practically re-educate my youngers everyday that they come home with some BS that their teachers told them. Fortunately I have proof in the olders that I am right. I only hope that there are other parents out there who actually followed the advice; "Teach your children well." Alas, most of them let the beast teach their children, without geting involved on any level.

I think, a lot about why my perspective is usually viewed in a 'negative' aspect, and I am consistently labeled as 'pessimistic.' I pray to the Father in Heaven to help me change my view, but the facts are that a lot of what I see, and experience IS negative, whether I comment on it or not changes nothing. I subscribe to the notion that the only way to supplant the negative is by displacing it with the positive, however if one is not willing to examine the negative without fear of labeling, mockery, or just plain ignorant judgementalism, then they can't possibly know just what it is they are replacing, and the disease cannot be cured without knowledge of it's original cause.

Like those who believe in the invisible clothing of the metaphorical emporer, choosing to ignore reality just because it is 'negative' and maybe uncomfortable - at odds with the majority of status quo groupies, is only a stumbling block for those who actually sacrifice their comfort for the sake of truth, and who know that the time for celebrating victory comes when it is totally finshed, and not because one personality or another claims it is.

The work has only just begun, and it is in the attitudes and belief systems of the people that the applicable solutions lie. The totality of politics is 100% error, and no representative of that system can be correct, whether they are Black, a Woman, A 'christian', or a friggin' Martian. When we stop looking for jewels in the trash pile - politicians, then the real leaders, the real people with something real to offer may be seen.

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Comment #40 posted by FoM on December 15, 2006 at 11:26:38 PT
museman
I hope that people see the need to look at how to find peace in the middle of the chaos we are living in. Christmas time is alaways a mixed time for me. My Father passed away 2 days before Christmas when I was 21. That really made me look at what this holiday is about and what it isn't about. It isn't about Stuff. It's about loving one another because family and friends are what's important. We haven't even been shopping this year yet. We will go out for one day and that's all. I know you don't celebrate Christmas and we do but not like most people do. Maybe Christmas Time should be called the Time for More Stuff! LOL! Sad thing is all the Stuff winds up in a dump someday and that is in the end result of a mind set which is buy, buy, buy and then when you're done buy just a little more. I am grateful that our country is as good as it is but it is only good because of the people not how our country is run. If they would stop throwing commercials at us everywhere we go people would stop wanting as much as they do and maybe they would look inside and find a little peace.

PS: Commericals drive me more then a little crazy. I don't need the Stuff they push on us and I feel sorry for poor parents who can't even put healthy food on their families table let alone buy all the Stuff that the children think they need.

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Comment #39 posted by museman on December 15, 2006 at 10:07:15 PT
FoM
Unfortunately, you can lead 'em to the gate, but you can't make 'em go through. Many cannnot make the quantum leap even with the divine tool of marijuana, thus their jealosy and angst towards those who can.

Ultimately there is no compromise with the truth -once it has been discovered and embraced. A lot of truth has been discovered, but it has not been embraced except by the radical few whose views often as not are casually labelled 'fanatical,' 'fringe elements,' and numerous other negative descriptions, and dismissed as having no value.

History will- at some point- demonstrate how many folks have long held the solutions in their minds, and hands, but the mainstream values (greatly in error) consistently cause judgements, and judgemental assumptions which effectively render such talent and resource impotent.

There is probably more real leadership in the homeless man on the street corner, than in the entire world political assemblage. Yet he is not even given the credibiltiy by most who drive by in their mercedes, and SUVs, as being human.

There is more understanding in the poor person for real life values, than anyone who makes a comfortable living in this society.

Not all poor people are 'good' people, any more than all 'upper class' people are 'bad.' The situation however is so far out of balance that there is nothing about the current system which is worth redeeming in the long run. As long as we continue to support it willingly, without protest - the downward destructive momentum will carry those who do continue to support it, right over the edge into the abyss, which is where this system of values and beliefs belongs, and is going.

However, for those who make sincere effort to divorce their hearts and minds from the corrupted - to "Be in the world but not of it." as Y'shua said, we get to watch the unfolding of eternity, and will turn away from the horror of the millions of fools who cling to the juggernaut of error as they go screaming over the cliff into oblivion.

Thank God for His bounty and providence-even if the corporate demons would try to sell it to us as if it were theirs to sell. The comfort of the wealth that has been stolen and horded by the few unworthy, will be take from them so swiftly they will not have time to cry out in protest. Their naked humility will be their last chance to re-enter into humanity, and if they continue to hold to the false assumptions of their own 'superiority,' down they will go with no surcease, or further opportunity for redemption.

Now they scoff and laugh at such a prediction, and continue to ride that monster into oblivion, but the time is nearly upon them. Once again they are admonished, in the words of Y'shua, "Truly it would be easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle, than a rich man to enter into the Kingdom of Heaven."

No camels have been noted to accomplish that feat.

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Comment #38 posted by FoM on December 14, 2006 at 16:36:43 PT
museman
The Gateway to Truth how profound.

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Comment #37 posted by museman on December 14, 2006 at 16:15:11 PT
core fundamentals
"How does an "act," which has no brain, supersede that which has a brain?"

How does a "Law" which is after all a written statement, made by a select few, take precedent over the living sovereignty of being?

All "Law" (and logic) is based on the assumption of the existence of a 'supreme' being, whose 'word' is the core foundation of all forms of written, and 'unwritten' covenants and codes of behavior.

The pretense of power that the status quo, or the power elite, has foisted upon is, has long left it's foundation of actual real precedent, and entered into the inventions of lunatic minds, which by their inheritance alone they have claimed false superiority, false authority, and false representation and interpretation of the very system of laws they claim to uphold...all for the sake of their petty materialisms.

The tale of the Emporer who wears no clothes, is as good an analogy as any. The power that the people give to these posers and usurpers is the only true power that they ever had, yet day in an day out their system is supported by each and every one of us, more willing than not.

Reality forces the compromise, it is true. The degree to which we 'buy into it' however is profoundly integral to actually having a chance to change it.

I have no doubt, that as the future unfolds, and more and more of the corruption of these 'special' people whose only real qualification is their bank account, and their 'pedigree' is revealed, the thing that has been staring us all in the face will be driven finally home.

I have no doubt that the selfish and destructive nature that is bred, nurtured, and founded in the twisted value system of possession and propriety -wealth-and-power- will be revealed for the empty, souless, filthy thing that it is.

When this occurs, we will have revealed the true source of the planetary disease, and will have a real opportunity to establish higher ground in the common awareness.

When the war and destruction that is a direct result of insane minds being given the power and authority to do such things ends because we as the human race have finally once and for all cast out the false values of our masters, and refuse to further serve their agendas-for a fistful of dollars- then we shall have opportunity to do some meanignful reconstruction of this reality.

As long as we collectively continue to live in the morality of medieval small-mindedness - "A penny for a measure...and see that you do not harm the oil, or the wine..." then the power of these corrupted few will continue into a world closely resembling Dante's 'Hades.'

Let us take our victories when and while we can. Some of them will be seen as cornerstones leading us out of the imposed darkness of the naked emporer and his band of thieves.

They are afraid of cannabis, not because of the economics, that's an easy excuse to throw out that almost makes 'logical' sense -if you buy into their materialistic 'logic.' They are afraid, because they know that smoking cannabis is the GATEWAY TO TRUTH, and those of us who partake meaningfully, have no trouble seeing the hype, lies, and subterfuge laid out by these as 'The Law' and the 'status quo' and the 'Great American Way.' It is not limited to America of course, power and it's attending corruption are everywhere.

We here believe that this country is based on the people. It's a grand notion, one that deserves to be tried, but if anyone believes we actually have that - "A government of the people, and by the people" then they need to sit down with someone with some real life experience and smoke some marijuana.

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Comment #36 posted by FoM on December 14, 2006 at 07:01:32 PT
Whig
Ever since President Johnson signed the Civil Rights Bill the south became Republicans because it made them mad. Race isn't an issue around where I live but we don't have a large population of blacks in our area. I am happy that Senator Obama is getting so much attention and I really hope people from the south are happy for this young potential president. That would be the beginning of change.

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Comment #35 posted by potpal on December 14, 2006 at 05:46:57 PT
dis and dat
Scientists make a move...

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/6178213.stm ------------

2006-12-13

Source: HIGHTIMES.COM

By Mary Ought Six

Judge Marilyn Hall Patel, of the U.S. District Court for the Northern District of California, has ruled to drop all charges against Charles Edward “Eddy” Lepp stemming from a 2004 raid of his Lake County, California property, on the grounds of an invalid search warrant.

Lepp told HIGH TIMES, “This motion should have been turned in the day after my arrest and it all should have been over within thirty days.”

The raid netted 32,512 marijuana plants, the largest bust of its kind in the United States, with the ensuing legal battle earning Lepp the HIGH TIMES Freedom Fighter of the Year Award at the 2004 Cannabis Cup.

-----------



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Comment #34 posted by whig on December 13, 2006 at 22:59:17 PT
OT: Netherlands
http://www.themoderatevoice.com/posts/1166036989.shtml

What's going on over there?

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Comment #33 posted by whig on December 13, 2006 at 22:57:06 PT
FoM
I think when you were young you had a good life if you were fortunate to be white. I think it was a lot worse for a lot of people. So it's gotten better for them in some ways and worse in some ways for you because the racists don't want to let the blacks rise so they'll hold everyone else down to keep them down.

Drug war is race war at the bottom.

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Comment #32 posted by FoM on December 13, 2006 at 21:13:32 PT
whig
It depends on how you think of the word free. I grew up with strict guidelines. I don't mind rules. What it is like now is different. It has become a society based on fear and way too many laws for no purpose but control.

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Comment #31 posted by whig on December 13, 2006 at 21:04:48 PT
FoM
Do you believe this was ever a free country?

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Comment #30 posted by whig on December 13, 2006 at 21:03:17 PT
mayan
http://cdashiell.blogspot.com/2006/12/right-to-know-truth.html

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Comment #29 posted by FoM on December 13, 2006 at 20:56:20 PT
The GCW
The problem I have with thinking thru things is I don't understand a political approach. When someone starts talking politics, unless it has some depth of feeling, I don't get it. Politics seem to be almost a religion to some people and I don't understand that. I believe that our hearts will guide us and make us a good country again or I feel we are doomed to how things are now or maybe even worse. That isn't living. That is existing and only inanimate objects should just exist. I want life back in our country. Changing the laws on Cannabis would be a good beginning.

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Comment #28 posted by The GCW on December 13, 2006 at 20:17:04 PT
FoM, and misc.
FoM, #18 & #16 – You point out 2 good points:

They don’t like fun and they allow drugs that are conducive to mind manipulation and dumbing down people's opposition…

-

The federal Controlled Substances Act is not a person but seems to be given personality (par. 5).

I hear real people say cannabis is medically viable; from doctors, patients, medical science people, family close to patients who’ve witnessed cannabis in action and research people etc. Those are people with intelligence; hearts, soles and brains; personalities.

How does an "act," which has no brain, supersede that which has a brain?

---

Did San Diego County vote and approve citizens to use cannabis medically some 10 years ago. What is the county by county breakdown of that election??? Are San Diego County residents the bottom of the barrel in the lack of compassion department? In the mean time of this case, will an election come up for citizens to vote for other people?

---

Since this case has national implications (par. 3) are other groups outside San Diego County influencing this matter? Remember one of the cries from the cannabis prohibition set is often that there is outside influence (look at NV & CO in the last election etc); does that exist here?

- A prohibition minded person asks and states:

"Our point is who has jurisdiction here (the state or federal government)."

It seems there is another choice of who has jurisdiction;

1. Sick people should have jurisdiction.

2 God / Christ God Our Father / The Ecologician, should have jurisdiction-

You know. He who created all the seed bearing plants on the very 1st page of the Bible, indicating they are all very good.

That Ecologician. That jurisdiction…

-

It angers Me to read about people with some amount of power and wish to use it in mean and mean spirited hateful ways.

- Parent-teacher associations are helping lead this mean work? Aren’t there enough parents and teachers confronting cancer alone to come out and slap (figuratively) those people,,,

-

I like the way, McClain said. "You could look at their faces, and it was the same exact deal. They smile and they look at you, but there's a coldness to that room that is just incredible.”””

I can not see their (prohibitionist) faces; but I can feel what McClain sees and feel it a thousand miles away. Christ God Our Father is both further and nearer and I have faith He does to.

-

Those who pursue the effort to keep sick humans from using what God says is good have an evil part to them that is sick and dangerous and an offense to Our Heavenly Father. Somehow We should muster what it takes to pray for those sorry souls.

The Green Collar Worker

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Comment #27 posted by FoM on December 13, 2006 at 19:09:35 PT
Whig
You're welcome.

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Comment #26 posted by whig on December 13, 2006 at 18:43:52 PT
FoM
Oh. Thanks for that link.

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Comment #25 posted by FoM on December 13, 2006 at 18:25:35 PT
Eddy Lepp's Case Dismissed!
I received an e-mail from California NORML and it said his case was dismissed. It was a large amount of plants. Over 30,000! I will post an article when one appears. I am happy for him.

http://www.eddysmedicinalgardens.com

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Comment #24 posted by mayan on December 13, 2006 at 18:21:56 PT
It Won't Go Away!
Neither will we. Over 80% of Americans support medical cannabis and that is why it will NEVER go away. The San Diego County supervisors are only wasting their time and the taxpayer's money.

THE WAY OUT IS THE WAY IN...

US Government Biological Weapons Legislator Says 2001 Anthrax Attacks Part Of Government Bio-warfare Program: http://infowars.net/articles/december2006/131206Anthrax.htm

Gordon Ross Wins Galileo Award - “Best Scientific Polemic” of the 9/11 Paradigm Shift: http://mujca.com/galileo.htm

Kevin Barrett's Radio Shows, Media Appearances, Lectures and Events: http://mujca.com/airwaves.htm

Boston Tea Party For 9/11 Truth - 12/16/06: http://www.boston911truth.org/teaparty/index.html

9/11 WAS AN INSIDE JOB - OUR NATION IS IN PERIL: http://www.911sharethetruth.com/



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Comment #23 posted by BobbyRa on December 13, 2006 at 16:06:40 PT
It depresses me that
I can't legally get my medicine, Cannabis. The only medicine after trying many, that WORKS.

I sure hope California can hold on to their medicinal laws as it looks like I will need to relocate upon retirement.



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Comment #22 posted by cannabliss on December 13, 2006 at 15:35:56 PT
Best Line
It's easy to pass by it, but the unintentionally best line in this article was the following:

The federal Controlled Substances Act says marijuana has no medicinal value and is illegal in all cases -- even though it also says that synthetically created tetrahydrocannibinol, the active ingredient in marijuana, does have medicinal value and can be prescribed by doctors.

Pretty much sums up the "reasoning" behind prohibition.

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Comment #21 posted by OverwhelmSam on December 13, 2006 at 15:15:22 PT
Pharmaceutical Companies Taking It On the Nose
Bayer, Johnson & Johnson, Eli Lilly, Phizer... and there stock holders are getting their much deserved bank accounts drawn down a few notches, and rightfully so. Coupled with all the money they paid politicians to keep cannabis illegal, the drug war is costing them plenty. Heck, I won't even buy aspirin.

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Comment #20 posted by global_warming on December 13, 2006 at 14:49:32 PT
the gathering storm
"In our opinion, the true intention of Prop. 215 hides behind the facade of terminally ill patients," McClure said. "And it has been used as a smokescreen for ill-intentioned profiteers to make a case for selling marijuana without criminal liability."

Consider the profiteers who hide behind that smokescreen called the children, yes those children when they smoke a marijuana cigarette, they will come before the judge, some prosecuting lawyer, lets not forget that arresting officer, and they will be taken away from their family, placed in some prison, filled with crazy and vicious murderers, rapists and the worst social offenders, and those poor children will be raped and utterly destroyed, so where is the profit?



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Comment #19 posted by whig on December 13, 2006 at 14:05:50 PT
FoM
Pursuit of happiness is guaranteed in the declaration of independence..

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Comment #18 posted by FoM on December 13, 2006 at 10:59:59 PT
Whig
The only thing that they took out of drugs is the fun. The drugs they push can be very addictive but the fun isn't there like it was with substances that weren't legal back in the 60s and early 70s.

Fun is what they don't want because people think and talk and share ideas when they are having fun.

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Comment #17 posted by whig on December 13, 2006 at 10:50:30 PT
FoM
The war was not over whether people would take drugs -- people always take drugs. The question was over which drugs people would take. If you foreclose the ability of people to get safe natural herbs, then they are going to need something to substitute for their deficiency and here's a chemical we can give you that will make you serve us as a good worker.

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Comment #16 posted by FoM on December 13, 2006 at 10:49:02 PT
Whig
Mind control is how people can be made to follow and not question. Look how they allow alcohol commercials and drug commercials now. I call it the dumbing down of people so they can be manipulated easily. How can a few people control a country any other way?

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Comment #15 posted by whig on December 13, 2006 at 10:43:09 PT
So you know
The Pharma companies are HUGE Republican'ts.

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Comment #14 posted by whig on December 13, 2006 at 10:42:16 PT
FoM
Now the robots are going to wake up. Prozac is how the Republicans have been holding power -- they just frankly mindwiped a generation.

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Comment #13 posted by FoM on December 13, 2006 at 10:30:43 PT
whig
Prozac totally twisted my mind and I only took it for about 6 months years ago and stopped when I realized how out of it I was feeling. It was a sneaky nasty drug. No fun either.

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Comment #12 posted by whig on December 13, 2006 at 10:30:15 PT
If you're depressed
Please do not hurt yourself and listen, this can save your life. Cannabis can help you.

Here's the catch -- it's depressing to be afraid for your life and safety.

So if you have to go break the law to get and use cannabis, you're going to be a little scared, and if this goes on too long you despair.

Okay, so now's your chance to make a difference. You have a new political system that has room for you, if you choose to become part. But you don't have to join. I'm not telling you what to do with your own choices, but speak up for yourself if you want them to be heard.

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Comment #11 posted by whig on December 13, 2006 at 10:21:57 PT
Hey!
If you're taking antidepressants don't stop. You should talk to a doctor.

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Comment #10 posted by whig on December 13, 2006 at 10:19:59 PT
Antidepressants cause suicide
It's all over CNN.

They had one woman that was giving a speech about how antidepressants saved her life from wild emotional swings -- and the whole speech was given in a monotone and without a single emotion on her face.

Everyone is condemning the drugs now, and the doctors won't prescribe them anymore if they don't want to be liable for suicide.

Might this be a good time to point out that cannabis helps depression?

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Comment #9 posted by whig on December 13, 2006 at 10:05:47 PT
Did he really say that?
Nevitt also ruled that in some cases, state's laws are "supreme" over federal law.

State supremacy/sovereignty is a a very touchy interpretation of the constitution, and one that I think will be taken up most strongly by actual secessionists.

I am not calling for secession at this time. The revolution is spreading nation-wide and must then continue on across the world to liberate cannabis. The alternative is Hotel California.

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Comment #8 posted by dongenero on December 13, 2006 at 09:54:55 PT
great comments O'Sam
hear, hear

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Comment #7 posted by OverwhelmSam on December 13, 2006 at 09:08:05 PT
From The Declaration of Independence
We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.

--That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed,

--That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness.

But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism,

it is their right,

it is their duty,

to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security

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Comment #6 posted by ekim on December 13, 2006 at 08:50:25 PT
Sen. Patrick Leahy on C-span now
Talking about how the fone taping is against the law and that the US citizen must stand up for there free rights.

dir tv ch 350

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Comment #5 posted by OverwhelmSam on December 13, 2006 at 08:49:07 PT
If Someone Would Take Leadership
I do not have the resources, yet. But if someone would lead an initiative to sue the county supervisors individually and expose them to the public, perhaps they would change their tune. It would also set precedent for taking our elected officials to task.

I bet the PTA and Drug Prevention Groups were encouraged to attend by the county supervisors and law enforcement/DEA.

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Comment #4 posted by Toker00 on December 13, 2006 at 08:47:13 PT
Cold. Heartless. Mean Spirited. Dark Hearts.
"Oh, I knew they were going to appeal," McClain said. "You could look at their faces, and it was the same exact deal. They smile and they look at you, but there's a coldness to that room that is just incredible.

"I mean, I don't want to speak ill," he said. "But there's a definite coldness. I guess we're going to the Supreme Court."

That is the cold chill of the presence of satan in that room. There is no other reason a person would smile at you, then deprive you of medicine. None.

Toke.

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Comment #3 posted by HempWorld on December 13, 2006 at 08:43:55 PT
Fire All These County Supervisors NOW!
They are a disservice to their community, who is paying their salary. The people have spoken!

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Comment #2 posted by OverwhelmSam on December 13, 2006 at 08:41:24 PT
Supreme Court Worthless
The Supreme Court has become a rubber stamp for the executive and legislative branch and should be completely ignored.Rights not specifically enumerated in the Constitution are reserved to the states and the people and the Supreme Courts have repeatedly ruled in favor of the government for rights that are not specifically enumerated.

Recently they agreed to hear the Bong Hit's for Jesus case (probably to overturn it) and refused to hear the case of a Utah man sent to prison for 55 years for selling marijuana which is cruel and unusual punishment.

Since the Supreme Court has no integrity in enforcing the Constitution, the only real recourse in this sorry government is Congress.

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Comment #1 posted by HempWorld on December 13, 2006 at 08:35:06 PT
County Supervisors Have No Clue Of Democracy!
These belligerent County supervisors think that they can subvert the democratic process (at least the remnants of it) through a lawsuit. On top of that they are funded by OUR money! (the taxapayers)

What a bunch of clueless idiots!

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