Cannabis News NORML - It's Time for a Change!
  Medical Pot Has Tough Test
Posted by CN Staff on February 27, 2006 at 07:33:25 PT
Editorial 
Source: Northwest Herald 

medical Illinois -- Legislation is pending in the state Senate that would allow the medical use of marijuana for "debilitating medical conditions."

Last week, state Sen. John Cullerton, D-Chicago, introduced a bill that would allow medical marijuana in Illinois. Users would be under a physician's care and registered with the Public Health Department. The patient would be limited to legally possess no more than 21/2 ounces of marijuana and 12 plants.

Public Health would implement regulations. The devil is in the details, but people with cancer, glaucoma and AIDS can find documented therapeutic relief smoking marijuana.

Medical marijuana is supported by the American Academy of Family Physicians, the American Nurses Association and the American Bar Association. The New England Journal of Medicine has endorsed it. A 2004 poll by AARP shows that 72 percent of respondents agree that adults should be allowed to use it medically under a doctor's supervision.

Medical marijuana is opposed by the Food and Drug Administration, the Drug Abuse Warning Network, and the International Association of Chiefs of Police. The American Medical Association is not on record opposing it, but it does not support the feds removing its status on the most restrictive controlled-substance list.

Eleven states allow that. In 1996, California became the first state to make it legal. Last month, Rhode Island made it legal under a doctor's orders.

But last year, the U.S. Supreme Court ruled in Gonzalez v. Raich that federal authorities could criminally prosecute such patients. However, the court did not overrule state laws that allow use of medical marijuana.

That's a quandary. But federal authorities already cede enforcement of marijuana laws to state and local authorities, who make 90 percent of marijuana arrests.

Rhode Island highlights a basic stumbling block of medical marijuana: How does a patient obtain it?

Pharmacies cannot fill prescriptions because it is included on the federal government's list of most restricted controlled substances. But most of the 11 states have some form licensing for marijuana growers or dispensaries.

Rhode Island legislators did not address that issue. That leaves patients or their caregivers to buy it on the streets like common drug criminals. The law makes no provision for the state to regulate it. That's unacceptable.

Cullerton's legislation covers that ground by assigning regulation to the Public Health Department. And the agency would need to apply the strictest of restrictions on supply and distribution of the marijuana.

But without them, Illinois would be reckless in sanctioning medical marijuana.

Source: Northwest Herald (IL)
Published: February 27, 2006
Copyright: 2006 Northwest Herald Newspapers
Contact: letters@nwherald.com
Website: http://www.nwherald.com/

Related Articles:

Time for Legislature To Pass Marijuana Bill
http://cannabisnews.com/news/thread21628.shtml

Illinois Could Be Next State To Legalize MMJ
http://cannabisnews.com/news/thread21625.shtml

Illinois Legislature Takes New Look at Marijuana
http://cannabisnews.com/news/thread21618.shtml


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Comment #66 posted by FoM on February 28, 2006 at 11:41:18 PT
Ekim
Bless you heart for keeping on track for us here today.

[ Post Comment ]
 
Comment #65 posted by FoM on February 28, 2006 at 11:39:26 PT
Max Flowers
I copied this part out of the article because I want to ask isn't it illegal to tell someone how to make Meth in a public forum? I am using that because as far as the authorities are concerned they are the same thing? Maybe it isn't illegal to talk about illegal activities. I really just don't know.

Excerpt: The cybercompany Heaven’s Stairway used the Internet sites hempqc.com, cannabisworld.com, overgrow.com, eurohemp.com, cannabisseeds.com, and cannabisbay.com. These sites were used to order cannabis seeds online and obtain information on cannabis cultivation. These Internet sites also suggested ways to outsmart the police.

[ Post Comment ]

 
Comment #64 posted by Max Flowers on February 28, 2006 at 11:32:19 PT
Overgrow & Cannabisworld
That is the first solid, verifiable news about what happened to Overgrow & Cannabisworld and the associated seed biz sites since they disappeared at the beginning of February. Everything else has been speculation. There was a lot of speculation from the outset that the owner was busted, but no one had been able to verify it.

I and some people I know were regulars on Cannabisworld, and posted a lot, but I don't think that they and most US members have too much to worry about as there is no indication that the busts were anything but a Canadian operation. The info that everyone wants and still apparently don't have is what happened to the servers, which contained a lot of private messages between members. Many people are hoping that there was a security plan in place in the event of a bust, i.e. that the private message area of the site was encrypted against non-administrators and non-members getting into them, or perhaps was wiped before (or after) the bust. But we don't know yet. Also troubling and up in the air is the issue of IP logging, as in did the sites do it or not (most say they didn't but some say they did).

I didn't buy seeds nor did I post grow photos on Cannabisworld, so I am not worried, but there were a lot of members who documented their grows with lots of photos, and the Canadian ones especially are probably a bit worried right now (well they already have been for weeks). With this RCMP announcement though, it sounds as if the investigation has concluded, otherwise they wouldn't announce it to the world and that is apparently why they didn't anounce it back in early February (they were still running the investigation).

Interestingly, I've heard that some people had kept huge archived versions of the whole Overgrow site, and now that the news is true that Overgrow is history, I predict someone will start a new site---minus the seed businesses---using all that compiled info. I wish/hope they did it with Cannabisworld too, as I didn't like Overgrow at all but thought Cannabisworld was great. Overgrow attracted a lot of immature kids and mean people, possibly adding to their notoriety, while Cannabisworld kept its house clean of that, forum-wise.

[ Post Comment ]

 
Comment #63 posted by ekim on February 28, 2006 at 11:30:08 PT
Abbotsford British Columbia Canada
http://leap.cc/events/ Feb 28 06 Drug Legalization Panel 05:30 PM Norm Stamper Abbotsford British Columbia Canada Speaker Norm Stamper participates in a Drug Legalization Panel Discussion at the University College of Fraser Valley.

Mar 1 06 Drug Legalization Debate at Buffalo State University 10:00 AM Peter Christ Buffalo New York USA Board Member and LEAP co-founder Peter Christ will participate in a drug legalization debate with Dr. William Wieczorek, Director, Center for Health and Social Research.



[ Post Comment ]
 
Comment #62 posted by FoM on February 28, 2006 at 10:40:58 PT
Article from The Globe and Mail
RCMP Bust Internet Drug Ring

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20060228.wdrug0228/BNStory/National/home

[ Post Comment ]

 
Comment #61 posted by FoM on February 28, 2006 at 10:35:19 PT
Whig
I have many things that I care about and think about but when it comes to doing CNews I have a one track mind. ( Casual conversations are enjoyable here on CNews too for me) I think it is a good thing to focus on an objective and let organizations do what they do and then someone writes an article and we make one more step. Step by step is all we can do or at least that's how I feel.

[ Post Comment ]
 
Comment #60 posted by ekim on February 28, 2006 at 10:29:20 PT
new movie showing tonight
http://www.truehigh.com/

Dale Carnegie once said, "Most of the important things in the world have been accomplished by people who have kept on trying when there seemed to be no hope at all." Some of them have no hope left, but maybe you can be the first strand of a line that guides them out of that dark abyss.

I hope to see you there. Thanks for reading.

(Today's quote from "Wise Up" by Aimee Mann; with lyrics that read, in part: "You're sure / There's a cure / And you have finally found it / You think / One drink / Will shrink you 'til you're underground / And living down / But it's not going to stop / It's not going to stop / It's not going to stop / 'Til you wise up") 25 Feb 2006 by John

OFFICIAL PUBLIC PREMIERE February 28, 2006 Ohio State University Campbell Hall, Room 200 7:30 PM - $5* Q&A with Director afterwards

February 28, 2006 Brown University List Art Center 120 8:00 PM - Free

MARCH

March 1, 2006 University of Arkansas Union Theater 7:00 PM - Free

March 17, 2006 Michigan Tech EERC 103 7:00 PM - Free

March 24, 2006 Truman State University VH1000 7:30 PM - Free

APRIL

April 12, 2006 Franklin Pierce College of New Hampshire Marcucella Hall, Room 102 7:30 PM - Free

[ Post Comment ]
 
Comment #59 posted by whig on February 28, 2006 at 10:25:39 PT
FoM
I know that's your focus. I'm a little less focused on particular objectives or ways of getting there. I try to think more about what's going on now and what kinds of things we can do that are helpful to people. I think legal change would be good, but I don't participate in the political process itself so I'm not directly engaged there, but I do appreciate the efforts of those who work in that way.

[ Post Comment ]
 
Comment #58 posted by FoM on February 28, 2006 at 10:20:02 PT
Whig
Yes my focus is to help change the laws. That has always been my focus.

[ Post Comment ]
 
Comment #57 posted by whig on February 28, 2006 at 10:15:39 PT
FoM
Not everyone has your faith that the laws can and will be changed, and in the meantime people do what they have to if they want to have their medicine or sacrament or whatever it is to them.

It's okay if you have a laser-like focus on changing the laws, but this is real life out here too.

With that said, a little discretion goes a long way.

[ Post Comment ]

 
Comment #56 posted by whig on February 28, 2006 at 10:09:19 PT
ekim
Well, if your question isn't rhetorical...

The NSA and FBI are conducting warrantless surveillance. Whatever evidence they find is inadmissible in court, because obtained extralegally. So instead of criminal prosecutions in judicial courts, the administration conducts executive tribunals to determine and review status of persons deemed to be enemy combatants, then puts them in a detention facility and attempts to block the courts from having habeas corpus.

Clear enough?

[ Post Comment ]

 
Comment #55 posted by FoM on February 28, 2006 at 10:08:57 PT
Whig
I am not a fan of Emery or anyone involved in these web sites. I wish no harm to any of them but they should have known better. We need to work on changing the laws and worry about seeds or whatever when the laws are changed. They waved a red flag in front of a bull.

[ Post Comment ]
 
Comment #54 posted by ekim on February 28, 2006 at 09:58:16 PT
some info
http://informationclearinghouse.info/article12078.htm Why Is Halliburton Building Internment Camps?

[ Post Comment ]
 
Comment #53 posted by whig on February 28, 2006 at 09:48:21 PT
#51
I don't think there's much risk observing what's going on and talking about it, but I agree we should try not to gossip when we don't know the facts.

I've visited lots of sites that I wouldn't actually post on, and I don't feel paranoid about it. I post here because you've established safe and (in my opinion) correct limits on what can be discussed. Even when we go off the main topic and talk on other forums like Museman's, anyone who would talk about engaging in activity that could get themselves and others in trouble is dumb to do so in a public forum.

So yeah, I'm not too surprised about OG/CW/etc. Even though I think they were crossing the line and in a too visible way, I don't believe they should be victims of the drug war, and I'm sorry this is happening to them, I'm concerned for Marc Emery too, but in his case I think he really created some hurtful feelings because he was in a competitive business and he not only assumed the worst but publicly stated that he "knew" this was a big fraud. I don't think that was very fair of him.

[ Post Comment ]

 
Comment #52 posted by FoM on February 28, 2006 at 09:43:04 PT
More News from Canada
RCMP Bust Internet Drug Ring ***

Canadian Press

Tuesday, February 28, 2006

MONTREAL -- The Mounties say they've arrested seven people who operated a Montreal-based international drug ring that allegedly sold, imported and exported marijuana seeds using the Internet.

The RCMP says the cyber company, Heaven's Stairway, set up six web sites where cannabis seeds could be ordered online and orders were then shipped by mail.

A spokesman for the RCMP says the seeds came from suppliers in Australia, New Zealand, and Europe, and a shipment was recently seized in Vancouver.

The alleged head of the company is a 38-year-old Montreal man and his wife is among the six others arrested.

They face a total of 49 charges and could face 10 years in prison if convicted.

The investigation began in November 2004 by a special RCMP investigative team that focuses on marijuana.

Copyright: Global National 2006

http://www.canada.com/globaltv/national/story.html?id=85532972-8d76-403c-9d2a-b0e790702e7a

[ Post Comment ]

 
Comment #51 posted by FoM on February 28, 2006 at 09:18:15 PT
whig
I don't know anything about Emery condemning them but I haven't believed anything that I have read until this news today. I haven't posted or been involved with any of those web sites because I knew that what was going on is illegal. I posted news years ago on OG but gave it up after about 7 months or so. I always felt that trouble could surface and it sure did.

[ Post Comment ]
 
Comment #50 posted by whig on February 28, 2006 at 08:40:32 PT
FoM
I'm sad for those caught up in this, and it appears Marc Emery was wrong to condemn them.

[ Post Comment ]
 
Comment #49 posted by FoM on February 28, 2006 at 08:05:32 PT
For Those Interested: RCMP Press Release
I really hope this is over soon. I have avoided any association with the illegal activity of web sites. We need to work on changing the laws and put the horse in front of the cart. I hope no one was ever involved from CNews on these web sites. Maybe soon we will be able to get back on track and see if we can progress or are we also going to be stuck because of this happening?

***

THE RCMP DISMANTLES AN INTERNATIONAL DRUG DISTRIBUTION NETWORK ON THE INTERNET

MONTRÉAL, Tuesday, February 28, 2006 – The members of the Marihuana Grow Operations Enforcement Team of the Royal Canadian Mounted Police concluded their first major operation when they uncovered a Montreal based criminal organization involved in the trafficking, importation and exportation of cannabis seeds, as well as in conspiring for the purpose of cannabis cultivation via the Internet. This operation was launched in November 2004 under the name "Courriel" and culminated with the seizure of 200,000 cannabis seeds and the arrest of seven persons.

Project "Courriel" revealed that Richard Hratch BAGHDADLIAN, 38, from Marsan Street in Montreal, and six other persons operated the Heaven’s Stairway company. This company was on the web claiming to be the North American supplier for indoor and outdoor cannabis production.

The cybercompany Heaven’s Stairway used the Internet sites hempqc.com, cannabisworld.com, overgrow.com, eurohemp.com, cannabisseeds.com, and cannabisbay.com. These sites were used to order cannabis seeds online and obtain information on cannabis cultivation. These Internet sites also suggested ways to outsmart the police.

Richard Hratch BAGHDADLIAN was the instigator, head and main beneficiary of the illicit company Heaven’s Straiway. The other six accused acted as couriers and performed other duties for the company. They are Geoffrey CHAN, 33, Maria Cristina CIVITILLO, 32, Natalie BAGHDADLIAN, 40, Manuel Bento FERNANDES, 45, Christopher ALMOND, 38, and Teresa RODRIGUES, 39. They all live in Montreal except Christopher ALMOND who lives in Ville Saint-Laurent.

The organization processed approximately 30 orders of cannabis seeds a day averaging $100 each. The seeds were sent to clients by regular mail.

The seven people are facing 49 charges under the Controlled Drugs and Substances Act and the Criminal Code of Canada. The offences were committed in Quebec, Canada, North America, the United Kingdom and elsewhere in the world between March 12, 1998 and January 31, 2006.

Nine searches were carried out during the week of January 30, 2006 in order to gather evidence that criminal activities had been committed. The searches were conducted in Montreal and Laval, as well as in the residences of three of the accused, a business, three post office boxes, a vehicle and a safe-deposit box.

These searches led to the seizure of 200,000 cannabis seeds, more than $183,362 in US currencies and $14,000 in Canadian currencies, both in cash and postal money orders, three one-kilogram gold bricks, a Harley-Davidson motorcycle, a Mazda RX8 and many purchase orders. Since the searches were conducted, 272 orders have been intercepted by the police.

The amount of seeds seized during the searches could have made it possible to operate approximately 500 cannabis greenhouses of 400 plants each, which represent 42 million joints sold on the street.

The seven accused are liable to 10 years’ imprisonment. Since the possession of cannabis seeds is illegal under Schedule II of the Controlled Drugs and Substances Act, clients of the network could also receive a visit from the police.

It should be noted that Project "Courriel", a first in Canada, is the fruit of the work of the new Marihuana Grow Operations Enforcement Team. This new drug enforcement team is one of the seven teams established by the Royal Canadian Mounted Police across Canada in 2004 to combat the scourge of marihuana. The main objectives of these teams are to interdict drugs before they arrive in our communities and to target and destroy the infrastructure and the networks used by criminal organizations involved in marihuana production. These organizations constitute a threat to public safety and well-being.

http://www.rcmp-grc.gc.ca/qc/comm/2006/fev06/060228a_e.htm

[ Post Comment ]

 
Comment #48 posted by FoM on February 28, 2006 at 06:43:08 PT
News from Canada News Wire
Media Advisory - The RCMP Dismantles an International Drug Distribution Network on The Internet

***

MONTREAL, Feb. 28 /CNW Telbec/ - Members of the Marihuana Grow Operations Enforcement Team of the Royal Canadian Mounted Police concluded their first major operation when they uncovered a Montreal based criminal organization involved in the trafficking, importation and exportation of cannabis seeds, as well as in conspiring for the purpose of cannabis cultivation via the Internet. This operation was launched in November 2004 under the name "Courriel" and culminated with the seizure of 200,000 cannabis seeds and the arrest of seven persons.

The amount of seeds seized during the searches could have made it possible to operate the equivalent of 500 cannabis greenhouses of 400 plants each.

To find out all the details of this operation, journalists are invited to attend a press conference at the RCMP Headquarters in Quebec.

Complete Press Release: http://www.canadanewswire.ca/en/releases/archive/February2006/28/c2223.html

[ Post Comment ]

 
Comment #47 posted by jose melendez on February 28, 2006 at 06:06:17 PT
leary would be proud
thank you whig

from http://www.mayanmajix.com/art1699.html

FRANCIS CRICK, the Nobel Prize-winning father of modern genetics, was under the influence of LSD when he first deduced thedouble-helix structure of DNA nearly 50 years ago.

The abrasive and unorthodox Crick and his brilliant American co-researcher James Watson famously celebrated their eureka moment in March 1953 by running from the now legendary Cavendish Laboratory in Cambridge to the nearby Eagle pub, where they announced over pints of bitter that they had discovered the secret of life.

Crick, who died ten days ago, aged 88, later told a fellow scientist that he often used small doses of LSD then an experimental drug used in psychotherapy to boost his powers of thought. He said it was LSD, not the Eagle's warm beer, that helped him to unravel the structure of DNA, the discovery that won him the Nobel Prize.

Despite his Establishment image, Crick was a devotee of novelist Aldous Huxley, whose accounts of his experiments with LSD and another hallucinogen, mescaline, in the short stories The Doors Of Perception and Heaven And Hell became cult texts for the hippies of the Sixties and Seventies. In the late Sixties, Crick was a founder member of Soma, a legalise-cannabis group named after the drug in Huxley's novel Brave New World. He even put his name to a famous letter to The Times in 1967 calling for a reform in the drugs laws.

It was through his membership of Soma that Crick inadvertently became the inspiration for the biggest LSD manufacturing conspiracy-the world has ever seen the multimillion-pound drug factory in a remote farmhouse in Wales that was smashed by the Operation Julie raids of the late Seventies.

Crick's involvement with the gang was fleeting but crucial. The revered scientist had been invited to the Cambridge home of freewheeling American writer David Solomon a friend of hippie LSD guru Timothy Leary who had come to Britain in 1967 on a quest to discover a method for manufacturing pure THC, the active ingredient of cannabis.

It was Crick's presence in Solomon's social circle that attracted a brilliant young biochemist, Richard Kemp, who soon became a convert to the attractions of both cannabis and LSD. Kemp was recruited to the THC project in 1968, but soon afterwards devised the world's first foolproof method of producing cheap, pure LSD. Solomon and Kemp went into business, manufacturing acid in a succession of rented houses before setting up their laboratory in a cottage on a hillside near Tregaron, Carmarthenshire, in 1973. It is estimated that Kemp manufactured drugs worth Pounds 2.5 million an astonishing amount in the Seventies before police stormed the building in 1977 and seized enough pure LSD and its constituent chemicals to make two million LSD 'tabs'.

The arrest and conviction of Solomon, Kemp and a string of co-conspirators dominated the headlines for months. I was covering the case as a reporter at the time and it was then that I met Kemp's close friend, Garrod Harker, whose home had been raided by police but who had not been arrest ed. Harker told me that Kemp and his girlfriend Christine Bott by then in jail were hippie idealists who were completely uninterested in the money they were making.

They gave away thousands to pet causes such as the Glastonbury pop festival and the drugs charity Release.

'They have a philosophy,' Harker told me at the time. 'They believe industrial society will collapse when the oil runs out and that the answer is to change people's mindsets using acid. They believe LSD can help people to see that a return to a natural society based on self-sufficiency is the only way to save themselves.

'Dick Kemp told me he met Francis Crick at Cambridge. Crick had told him that some Cambridge academics used LSD in tiny amounts as a thinking tool, to liberate them from preconceptions and let their genius wander freely to new ideas. Crick told him he had perceived the double-helix shape while on LSD.

'It was clear that Dick Kemp was highly impressed and probably bowled over by what Crick had told him. He told me that if a man like Crick, who had gone to the heart of human existence, had used LSD, then it was worth using. Crick was certainly Dick Kemp's inspiration.' Shortly afterwards I visited Crick at his home, Golden Helix, in Cambridge.

He listened with rapt, amused attention to what I told him about the role of LSD in his Nobel Prize-winning discovery. He gave no intimation of surprise. When I had finished, he said: 'Print a word of it and I'll sue.'

- - -

Applying insights gained from his own psychedelic experiences, Leary developed structured therapeutic LSD encounters with a population of convicts at a maximum security state prison, but similar experiments with graduate and undergraduate students quickly attracted.the ire of the Harvard administration. After ignoring a university ultimatum to curtail the experiments, Leary and colleague Richard Alpert were dismissed by the university in 1963.

http://www.doitnow.org/pages/leary1.html

- - -

"Congress has no more constitutional power to tell a jury it can convict upon any such forced and baseless inference than it has power to tell juries they can convict a defendant of a crime without any evidence at all from which an inference of guilt could be drawn."

MR. JUSTICE BLACK

http://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/cgi-bin/getcase.pl?navby=case&court=US&vol=395&invol=6&pageno=14

- - -

"Our federalist system, properly understood, allows California and a growing number of other States to decide for themselves how to safeguard the health and welfare of their citizens."

Justice Thomas

http://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/scripts/getcase.pl?court=us&vol=000&invol=03-1454

- - -

"Cannabinoids are trying to ease the situation on both sides. They help save the neuron and, at the same time, make sure the microglial cells stay in microglial form. How good do you want a drug to be?"

http://www.bestsyndication.com/Articles/2006/Nicole-WILSON/Health/02/022706-diabetic_retinopathy_blindness_marijuana_compound.htm



[ Post Comment ]

 
Comment #46 posted by whig on February 28, 2006 at 05:48:34 PT
Jose - Pain management
Since I didn't attempt accupuncture, I cannot speak to it directly, but low-dose (approx. 30mcg) LSD weekly gave a profound reduction of pain for the whole week.

It's a western approach, but not exactly conventional medicine.

[ Post Comment ]

 
Comment #45 posted by mayan on February 28, 2006 at 05:28:05 PT
Bush & Blair
It's obvious to nearly all that these guys are losers...

Poll: Bush Ratings At All-Time Low: http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2006/02/27/opinion/polls/main1350874.shtml

Blair Approval Rating Falls to 28% in Britain: http://www.angus-reid.com/polls/index.cfm/fuseaction/viewItem/itemID/11025

Honestly, I can't imagine how a single person could approve of these murdering terrorists. They belong behind bars.

Dead-eye Dick might step down...

Cheney seen retiring after midterm elections http://www.insightmag.com/Media/MediaManager/cheney3.htm

[ Post Comment ]

 
Comment #44 posted by mayan on February 28, 2006 at 04:42:32 PT
Misc.
Here's a LTE by Bruch Mirken in respose to the above article...

Pain relief not criminal: http://www.nwherald.com/MainSection/opinion/293539883716079.php

Other news...

City set to vote on marijuana possession law: http://www.kansan.com/stories/2006/feb/28/ordinance_preview/

Getting Eye On Cannabinoids: http://www.scienceagogo.com/news/20060128033012data_trunc_sys.shtml

Council snuffs out future pot stores: http://www.auburnjournal.com/articles/2006/02/28/news/top_stories/03city28.txt

THE WAY OUT...

Slicing away liberty: 1933 Germany, 2006 America: http://onlinejournal.com/artman/publish/article_535.shtml

Upcoming 9/11 Courses at Colorado Free University: http://www.freeu.com/classes/7556.html

The gang that couldn’t shoot straight: http://onlinejournal.com/artman/publish/article_537.shtml

Daryl Bradford Smith interviews David Pidcock: http://www.iamthewitness.com/DarylBradfordSmithInterviewsPidcock2.html

Steven E. Jones 9/11 Lecture on DVD: http://www.digitalstylecreations.com/

9/11 Podcasts: http://visibility911.libsyn.com/

[ Post Comment ]

 
Comment #43 posted by jose melendez on February 28, 2006 at 03:16:40 PT
not either or
My post was intended to point out that the choices are not mutually exclusive. Surely there was pain management in addition to the hip replacement, no?

[ Post Comment ]
 
Comment #42 posted by SirEbram on February 27, 2006 at 22:54:02 PT
Long Time No Read
Hi FoM, everybody.

I haven't the time, at the moment, to appreciate the current conversation, but I soon will catch up on it... I'm gonna watch a movie with my loved ones right now.

Just wanted to say hi.

Peace on Earth & Good Will to mind-kind

SirEbram

[ Post Comment ]
 
Comment #41 posted by afterburner on February 27, 2006 at 22:38:26 PT
Let Us Not Forget Dr. Andrew Weil's Integrative...
Medicine.

I have relatives that have benefited greatly from western medical techniques like surgery, diagnostics and pills, but there are unpleasant and disturbing side effects. I also have relatives who have not responded favorably to western medical therapies and died before they were cured.

I have relatives, friends and myself who have benefited from alternative healing techniques, including meditation, guided visualization, herbs (including cannabis flowering tops), acupressure and other massage techniques, megavitamins and phytonutrients, organic food, color therapy, and many other techniques.

Dr. Weil teaches us, as he himself practices, a combination of western medicine and alternative medicine, which he dubbed Integrative Medicine. Unfortunately, the majority of western doctors, medical societies, pharmacists, pill makers and medical tool makers oppose many alternatives which threaten their dominance over medical practices covered by health care insurance. We need more doctors like Dr. Weil who are true healers and open to the best of both medical worlds, western medicine and alternative medicine.

[ Post Comment ]

 
Comment #40 posted by whig on February 27, 2006 at 22:22:34 PT
Museman
Your server is saying bandwidth exceeded over at wholeearthfamily.

Should we try to find another place to host it?

[ Post Comment ]

 
Comment #39 posted by whig on February 27, 2006 at 22:18:44 PT
BGreen
I know. We're on the same side, I agree with you. I don't want to throw out the baby with the bathwater, is all I'm saying.

It seems to me that profit motive is a very bad basis for society to be organized around. We've been brainwashed to think that our only two choices are state capitalism and state communism, and we point at the defects of the latter as justification for the former.

Fascism vs. Bolshevism, is what they're saying. Pick one. And since you get to choose, that's freedom, too!

No. That isn't freedom at all.

Ya gotta go off the menu to get what you want. You have to make it yourself. But you don't have to do it alone, because there's lots of us, and we're all in this together.

What motivates you? Money? I don't think so. But that's what we're told motivates most people. It isn't natural, it isn't what children want, it's just what they are taught to want, it's what they're taught they need to survive, because without money, you can't pay the rent, you can't get food to eat, you can't get medicine if you're sick.

But what if you didn't need to worry about basic survival. What if you knew that much was taken care of by your family, your friends, your community. And why would they take care of these things? Because they wouldn't be motivated by money either. Because it would be taken care of for them too, by you. Does this sound crazy? Impossible? It isn't.

Because there is plenty. More than enough for all. Scarcity is artificial. The principle currency which you can acquire is the love and respect of your family and your friends and your community. When you do nice things for people, they will do nice things for you, you help one another, and you make sure you all have what you need. Not because you have to. but because you want to.

Do you want a doctor who doesn't care about you, but only cares about being paid? Some doctor. I'm not saying good doctors don't want to be paid, because in today's society it's something we all need to (see above) pay the rent, etc. But a good doctor will treat you even if you cannot pay.

My grandfather was a pediatrician. He had some patients (kids) whose parents were poor and couldn't even afford to bring them in to his office. He made house calls. And they'd give him little gifts to thank him. Nothing of substantial economic value. Just what they could do.

Of course, it was a different time. I don't think many doctors will do this anymore. I'm not sure they can. There are so many regulations, so many rules, the AMA certainly doesn't want to encourage their members to offer services like this, it makes the rest of their organization look bad.

And so it goes.

Time for a change, soon.

[ Post Comment ]

 
Comment #38 posted by BGreen on February 27, 2006 at 20:03:21 PT
whig
I hope you know I'm nothing but grateful for the techniques that gave you mobility.

It's not either/or I'm talking about. It's "their way or no way" that I'm talking about.

I'm very happy for you.

The Reverend Bud Green

[ Post Comment ]

 
Comment #37 posted by whig on February 27, 2006 at 19:35:41 PT
Jose
No, I didn't have osteoarthritis. I had a completely crushed femoral head and hip socket.

Pancaked.

Flat.

You think needles would fix that?

I don't mean to sound sarcastic, but really, I needed a new hip, or I was like the horse with the broken leg. Just put me down, please.

[ Post Comment ]

 
Comment #36 posted by jose melendez on February 27, 2006 at 19:15:14 PT
re: comment #15
Q: "I had a total hip replacement. What eastern approach would have helped me?"

A: British researchers found that acupuncture was significantly more effective than exercise for osteoarthritis pain. In this study, 32 patients awaiting hip replacement surgery were randomly assigned to one or two groups: the first group relieved one acupuncture session per week for six weeks, while the second group was given medical advice and exercises for the hip over the same six-week period. At the end of the six weeks, the patients receiving acupuncture had significant improvement in pain, while those in the exercise group showed no improvement. At follow-up eight weeks later, the difference in pain between the two groups was still evident. Acupuncture in Medicine 2001; 19(1): 19-26.

http://whitakerwellness.com/our_therapies/accupuncture/

see also:

http://www.cah.com/dr_library/hipdysp.html

[ Post Comment ]
 
Comment #35 posted by jose melendez on February 27, 2006 at 19:05:30 PT
Medical cannabis. Right . . . sure. . . . really?
Marijuana compound may help stop diabetic retinopathy

http://www.mcg.edu/news/2006NewsRel/Liou022706.html

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2006/02/060227184647.htm

Early studies indicate cannabidiol works as a consummate multi-tasker to protect the eye from growing a plethora of leaky blood vessels, the hallmark of diabetic retinopathy, says Dr. Gregory I. Liou, molecular biologist at the Medical College of Georgia.

“We are studying the role of cannabinoid receptors in our body and trying to modulate them so we can defend against diabetic retinopathy,” Dr. Liou says. Diabetic retinopathy is the leading cause of blindness in working-age adults and affects nearly 16 million Americans.

[ Post Comment ]

 
Comment #34 posted by museman on February 27, 2006 at 18:59:19 PT
and by that I mean
that 'money' is symbolic of the greed (and the creed) of the powerful.

[ Post Comment ]
 
Comment #33 posted by museman on February 27, 2006 at 18:48:02 PT
'Medicine' versus 'Health Care'
They are NOT 'one and the same.' However the same issues that an earthly-minded person (usually not very wealthy) confront with their medicine, they also confront with their health care.

Bottom line, no matter what brave few idealists and dreamers actually make it into these professions, is MONEY. The motivation behind the research, funding, productions, sales, and distribution of ANY 'product' is what? Kind consideration for others?

Bottom line, prime motivation to become a Doctor, is contrary to what most would claim, is MONEY, and for some the local COuntry Club is of greatest importance. Granted there are some few ACTUAL 'Healers' in the 'medical profession' but they are very hard to find. I've met a few of them so I know it's true. But there's more reasons than one for asking another doctor for a 'second opinion.'

Money motivations, the greed of the rich, not wanting to let their substance diminish by a few cents annually, have created the 'Health Insurance' scam for what reason? Making health care a benefit for all? I don't think so.

Am I 'grateful' that when my appendix ruptured that the attending doctor was a real doctor worthy of my trust? You bet. Do I trust the arrogant attitude that they know more of my body then I do, and that I am some kind of moron who doesn't understand gravity? Not on your life. Or mine.

Do I think that just by virtue of their 'Alma Mater' that I am just going to blindly accept whatever they say? LOL.

[ Post Comment ]

 
Comment #32 posted by 420toker on February 27, 2006 at 17:51:57 PT
BGreen
You should check in with socialized medical care, Im all for it and it works pretty well in Canada. I untill the bust ended I was also without any health insurance and I'm lucky as hell I didn't get hit with some of my current medical problems back then. I would certainly have been set back several years financially, but I did have insurance and it only left me with about a year of financial setback. I am all for socialized medicine and making a minimum level of care for everybody. The insurance companies and the drug campanies have hijacked the entire industry and turned it into a bidding war for life. The insurance companies are taking more and more from the Dr's and patients and outputing nothing more than profits. The gvmt can be forced to clamp down on these unfettered profits but the people have to wake up and demand it. Perhaps one day health insurance will either be affordable again or we can abolish the whole practice of it altogether

[ Post Comment ]
 
Comment #31 posted by FoM on February 27, 2006 at 17:40:12 PT
Cost of Medicine
I am like BGreen. We don't have insurance and the only way to keep myself healthy is by using medicinal herbs and essential oils of different plants. Money is an issue with many americans. I haven't had a prescription drug or seen a doctor since 94. I really believe there are many people that have to put medicine on the sidelines. I know a man who couldn't afford the insulin he needed and we asked him what he was going to do. He was very thin. He said trust God because that is all I can do.

[ Post Comment ]
 
Comment #30 posted by BGreen on February 27, 2006 at 17:21:23 PT
Um, no offence, but ...
I have my doubts as to whether some of the so-called advances you mention would ever be available to someone like myself with no money or insurance.

It doesn't really matter if technology exists if it remains out of reach of the masses, does it?

Even if I needed your kind of medicine it ain't gonna happen.

Good luck on your product. I'm sure I can't afford it.

The Reverend Bud Green

[ Post Comment ]

 
Comment #29 posted by 420toker on February 27, 2006 at 17:04:06 PT
Bgreen
I am sorry you have had so much trouble with western medicine, but for all of the massive medical advances made every day I feel your 25% good is far lower than what is a reality,

Yes cocaine was a terrible drug when purifued and sold on the street or it is invaluable in eye, nose and throat surgery. Lots of nutural remedies are great but they work great for keeping people heathy (either physologically or psychologically) but there is a point where that needs to take a back seat to real Dr's who have studied the condition inside and out and know every nuance of it. My grandfather was one of the first double bypasses in history done by Dr Debaky and Noon. That doesnt even compare with some of what we are capable of now. Artificial discs, new nerve and muscle repair techniques, targeted cancer therapys, the Gamma knife, all of this is happening now and soon it will bloom forth even further. I am not a pill poper as you suggest I do not advocate unnecessary treatments nor drugs. I do however realize that without something as lowly as the antibiotic and steralization childbirth would result in a 25% fatality rate, diabetes would kill you by age 50 and heart disease would always be fatal.

You are right I do not know you but if you ever wind up in a hospital I sure hope the product I and my company work on will help you. I will continue to be proud of the best Western medicine has to offer.

[ Post Comment ]

 
Comment #28 posted by whig on February 27, 2006 at 17:03:07 PT
Cannabis is good for you
"He hopes the compound in marijuana may one day be given along with insulin to stop the early changes that set the stage for damaged or destroyed vision."

Or we could just let them take pot and let it help them in probably lots more ways without the side-effects of some awful purified/synthetic compound.

[ Post Comment ]

 
Comment #27 posted by FoM on February 27, 2006 at 16:32:42 PT
News Article from The Medical College of Georgia
Marijuana Compound May Help Stop Diabetic Retinopathy

Toni Baker

February 27, 2006

A compound found in marijuana won’t make you high but it may help keep your eyes healthy if you’re a diabetic, researchers say.

Early studies indicate cannabidiol works as a consummate multi-tasker to protect the eye from growing a plethora of leaky blood vessels, the hallmark of diabetic retinopathy, says Dr. Gregory I. Liou, molecular biologist at the Medical College of Georgia.

“We are studying the role of cannabinoid receptors in our body and trying to modulate them so we can defend against diabetic retinopathy,” Dr. Liou says. Diabetic retinopathy is the leading cause of blindness in working-age adults and affects nearly 16 million Americans.

High glucose levels resulting from unmanaged diabetes set in motion a cascade ultimately causing the oxygen-deprived retina to grow more blood vessels. Ironically, the leaky surplus of vessels can ultimately destroy vision.

Dr. Liou, who recently received a $300,000 grant from the American Diabetes Association, wants to intervene earlier in the process, as healthy relationships inside the retina first start to go bad.

Cannabinoid receptors are found throughout the body and endogenous cannabinoids are produced to act on them. “Their function is very different from organ to organ but in the central nervous system, cannabinoid receptors are responsible for the neutralization process that should occur after a nerve impulse is finished,” says Dr. Liou.

Nerves come together at a point of communication called a synapse. Glutamate is a neurotransmitter that excites these nerves to action at their point of communication. “There are also inhibitory neurotransmitters such as GABA,” Dr. Liou says. Endogenous cannabinoids help balance the excitation and inhibition, at least until oxygen gets scarce.

In the face of inadequate oxygen, or ischemia – another hallmark of diabetes – nerve endings start producing even more glutamate, setting in motion an unhealthy chain of events. Pumps that keep the right substances inside or outside of cells start to malfunction. Excess nitric oxide and superoxides are produced, which are toxic to the cells. Another irony is the heightened activity increases the retina’s need for oxygen. “We are talking about nerve cell death,” Dr. Liou says. “In the retina, if a lot of our nerve cells die, our vision is directly affected.”

And that’s not all that goes wrong in the nerve-packed retina. Glial cells, which support nerve cells by supplying nutrients and oxygen, are closely attuned to their charges. When they sense something is amiss, microglia, one type of glial cells, start eating the dying nerve cells.

“Microglial cells become voracious. They eat dying nerve cells, making the whole thing irreversibly bad,” says Dr. Liou. Interestingly, the body start producing more endogenous cannabinoids to stop the role reversal, then produces an enzyme to destroy the cannabinoids because of concern there are too many of them. The same thing happens in the brain after a stroke. “Long before all these blood vessels start growing, the partnership between glial cells and nerve cells starts breaking down,” says Dr. Liou.

That’s why cannabidiol, an antioxidant, may help save the retina. Test-tube studies by others, as well as Dr. Liou’s pilot studies in diabetic animal models show cannabidiol works to interrupt essentially all these destructive points of action.

“What we believe cannabidiol does is go in here as an antioxidant to neutralize the toxic superoxides. Number two, it inhibits the self-destructive system and allows the self-produced endogenous cannabinoids to stay there longer by inhibiting the enzyme that destroys them.” Cannabidiol also helps keep microglial cells from turning on nerve cells by inhibiting cannabinoid receptors on microglial cells that are at least partially responsible for their ability to destroy rather than support the cells.

“Cannabinoids are trying to ease the situation on both sides. They help save the neuron and, at the same time, make sure the microglial cells stay in microglial form. How good do you want a drug to be?” Dr. Liou says.

His earliest studies in animal models, published in the January issue of the American Journal of Pathology, indicate it may be very good.

Co-authors on the study include Dr. Azza B. El-Remessy, MCG Department of Pharmacology and Toxicology; Drs. Mohamed Al-Shabrawey, Nai-Tse Tsai and Ruth B. Caldwell, MCG Vascular Biology Center; and Dr. Yousuf Khalifa, MCG Department of Ophthalmology.

“We are very pleased,” he says of studies in which cannabidiol is injected into the stomachs of diabetic rats and mice.

He hopes the compound in marijuana may one day be given along with insulin to stop the early changes that set the stage for damaged or destroyed vision.

Copyright: 2006 Medical College of Georgia

http://www.mcg.edu/news/2006NewsRel/Liou022706.html

[ Post Comment ]

 
Comment #26 posted by FoM on February 27, 2006 at 16:12:00 PT
observer
Yes I added to the thread on Steve.

http://cannabisnews.com/news/thread21602.shtml#11

[ Post Comment ]

 
Comment #25 posted by global_warming on February 27, 2006 at 16:11:03 PT
listening to sibelius
there is a gentle hand that comes with understanding,

that is a 'gift from the 'stars

and that almighty that transcends

Eternity..

Twinkle

Your corpulence

Like your corporeality,

Belongs to You,

Bring that Gentle Hand

That May Grace

This Forum

This Place

Where 'we may achieve

A 'New Understanding

An Understanding,

That Heralds

This New World

peace

[ Post Comment ]

 
Comment #24 posted by whig on February 27, 2006 at 16:08:46 PT
BGreen
I don't think we disagree, and Museman is pretty much saying the same thing as I think too.

We don't want to lose the 25% or whatever percentage of good there is, for the sake of the harm. What we want to do is reduce the harm. I am a harm reductionist.

[ Post Comment ]

 
Comment #23 posted by observer on February 27, 2006 at 16:06:34 PT
Kubby Loses 25 Lbs in Three Weeks
anyone see this article about Steve Kubby?

Jailed cancer survivor loses 25 pounds in three weeks http://drugpolicycentral.com/bot/pot



[ Post Comment ]

 
Comment #22 posted by global_warming on February 27, 2006 at 15:53:53 PT
lest you 'forget
'we 'remember



[ Post Comment ]

 
Comment #21 posted by global_warming on February 27, 2006 at 15:47:26 PT
the Indians are angry at me
for the slap in their face

that came from 'my 'wretched hand,

in all these thousands of 'years,

they have had a chance to to 'see,

the 'unknown faces they 'enslave,

yet they 'recite scriptures,

justifying a corruption in their hearts and

Eternal Souls,

like the Jews and Judaism,

those who have been taken,

by 'nails on some barren wooden cross,

This is 'our 'place,

To 'remember 'this 'place,



[ Post Comment ]

 
Comment #20 posted by global_warming on February 27, 2006 at 15:25:24 PT
you have an Amen
on 4/18,..



[ Post Comment ]

 
Comment #19 posted by BGreen on February 27, 2006 at 15:17:54 PT
I believe opiates are CNS depressants
In clinical settings, morphine exerts its principal pharmacological effect on the central nervous system and gastrointestinal tract. Its primary actions of therapeutic value are analgesia and sedation. Morphine appears to increase the patient's tolerance for pain and to decrease discomfort, although the presence of the pain itself may still be recognized. In addition to analgesia, alterations in mood, euphoria and dysphoria, and drowsiness commonly occur.

Morphine depresses various respiratory centers, depresses the cough reflex, and constricts the pupils. Analgesically effective blood levels of morphine may cause nausea and vomiting directly by stimulating the chemoreceptor trigger zone, but nausea and vomiting are significantly more common in ambulatory than in recumbent patients, as is postural syncope.

[ Post Comment ]

 
Comment #18 posted by museman on February 27, 2006 at 14:49:53 PT
comment#11
"I like Cannabis, I think it has many therapeutic values as well as social values but I wouldn’t...couldn’t throw out the modern pharmacopoeia for it, western medicine has saved my life more times than I can count."

No just the DRUG COMPANIES that lobby congress for exclusivity, and proprietary copyrights. The DRUG companies that lobby the rich power elite to illegalize the orignal natural sources of their 'drugs.' Throw THEM out, along with the rest of the political and social elitists.

[ Post Comment ]

 
Comment #17 posted by BGreen on February 27, 2006 at 14:43:36 PT
That's the 25%, whig
Taking a natural plant and isolating and concentrating a particular component can lead to the creation of a deadly drug.

That's exactly what happened with the coca plant.

Most of modern western medicine works under this isolate and concentrate model.

There is a synergistic effect in healing plants and eastern medicine, with the idea of bringing balance to the body.

Crediting the longer life expectancy solely to western medicine is debatable, because there are so many other factors such as water purification, waste disposal, food handling, etc. that also factor into this equation.

I'm not totally against science, but I'm very leery of money-based psuedoscience enforced with the barrel of a gun.

The Reverend Bud Green

[ Post Comment ]

 
Comment #16 posted by BGreen on February 27, 2006 at 14:30:49 PT
I'm not fighting with you either
I was actually going to be a pharmacist, and worked in a pharmacy while going to college.

People just assumed I was a pharmacist, only because I was a man, so my role was the same as a pharmacist.

I occasionally had to explain some little thing, but my function was counting pills.

I saw firsthand the abuse and corruption involved in medicine. I saw the nursing home patients being prescribed drug after drug for no other purpose than to treat the side effects of other drugs.

I saw ladies so spaced out on multiple drugs that it was actually scary watching them try and walk to their cars, and frightening to watch them drive away.

I was chewed out by numerous doctors who were irate that I would call to double check the prescription they had written with handwriting that wouldn't even be acceptable to a preschooler.

My views and overall outlook on life aren't just a whim, but a 43 year process of learning.

You think you can separate good science from corrupt science, but I think it's a little too late to salvage any credibility, thanks to the modern scientist.

The Reverend Bud Green

[ Post Comment ]

 
Comment #15 posted by whig on February 27, 2006 at 14:27:30 PT
BGreen
Western medicine is not all "pills and potions," either.

I had a total hip replacement. What eastern approach would have helped me?

[ Post Comment ]

 
Comment #14 posted by BGreen on February 27, 2006 at 14:17:56 PT
You don't really know me or my friends
My "friend" is on 13 "medications" because of a stroke, but he now has panic attacks, falls asleep sitting up and has been impotent since the last 5 drugs were prescribed.

Nobody needs 13 different drugs that have never been tested together, but that's modern science at work.

My mom, dad, sister and many other members of my family are victims of "modern science," and my mom has permanent nerve damage because of a so-called specialist in Springfield, MO who butchered her back.

I don't get infections because I'm healthy. Most of the people who are so in love with modern science take antibiotics for every sniffle, so it's questionable whether or not the penicillin your doctor gives you will even work any more.

The western version of medicine is being discredited almost every day in some way or another due to greed, corruption and unethical behavior.

I don't poison myself, but by all means go ahead and pop pills if that's your thing.

I won't embrace an establishment that attacks natural and eastern medicine by making anything BUT the pill way punishable by jail. Death or jail, what a kind of a choice is that in a free society.

I'll admit that maybe 25% of the standard thinking in western medicine is beneficial, but that is mostly overshadowed by the harm inflicted by the other 75%.

The Reverend Bud Green

[ Post Comment ]

 
Comment #13 posted by 420toker on February 27, 2006 at 14:09:33 PT
Bgreen
I didn't mean to sound as if I am minimizing your friends plight by calling them hypochondriacs and generally you and I have been on the same side of most arguments here.

I dont believe drug companies have our best interest at heart just as I dont believe the gvmt knows whats best for you. However Commercialism is everywhere even with the herb market, metabolife, GNC they are all out to make a buck off you and me and I think in a heartbeat they would stick it to us just like Big Pharma. Thats Capatilism and also why they should all be more regulated especially in the profit department.

What you are seeming to have more of a problem with is the culture derived by modern medicine, that they are the only way to heal and mind and spirit dont play into it. I believe this is false as well. I support whole body healing with whatever makes you feel better.



[ Post Comment ]

 
Comment #12 posted by FoM on February 27, 2006 at 14:01:07 PT
News Brief from United Press International
Marijuana Ingredient Useful in Diabetes

***

AUGUSTA, Ga., Feb. 27 (UPI) -- Medical College of Georgia researchers say a compound found in marijuana may help keep diabetics' eyes healthy.

Researchers led by molecular biologist Gregory Liou found cannabidiol works as a consummate multitasker to protect the eye from growing a plethora of leaky blood vessels, the hallmark of diabetic retinopathy -- the leading cause of blindness in working-age adults, affecting nearly 16 million Americans.

High glucose levels resulting from unmanaged diabetes set in motion a cascade ultimately causing the oxygen-deprived retina to grow more blood vessels. Ironically, the leaky surplus of vessels can ultimately destroy vision.

Liou, who recently received a $300,000 grant from the American Diabetes Association, and colleagues explain their work in the American Journal of Pathology.

Copyright: 2006 United Press International, Inc.

http://www.upi.com/ConsumerHealthDaily/view.php?StoryID=20060227-033749-6285r

[ Post Comment ]

 
Comment #11 posted by 420toker on February 27, 2006 at 13:54:54 PT
CNS stimulants
CNS stimulants are not related by action they are by chemical structure, Opiates are classed as CNS stimulants and are not in any way related to amphetamines (stimulate the adrenal glands near the kidneys) nor ephedrine or pseudo ephedrine. In regards to your comment about ephedra in plant form it is not illegal to grow nor possess it is simply illegle to use in herbal supplements that are OTC like herbal XTC and various body building substances. The live plants are fine, the dried herb is fine, putting into a pill as an extract and selling it as XTC or something that will build muscle or create weight loss is not. I disagreed with the government regulating this too but it is most certainly not better at its function than other prescribable drugs.

If you are so concerned about modern medicine hurting you rather than helping you, the next time you have an infection go eat a big lump of moldy bread, I think I will stick to Penicillin.

PS your friends are quite possibly hypochondriacs who feel the need to medicate whenever they don’t "feel right” I have a buddy like that as well. Walking pharmaceutical cabinet he is but it’s no worse than the Herb guy in our company who microwaves the most god awful smelling stuff in the world in our kitchen but complains just like the medicine cabinet guy.

Here is the nail in that coffin, the average lifespan continues to rise in locations with western style medicine, find me some village in china where the average lifespan is 70+

I like Cannabis, I think it has many therapeutic values as well as social values but I wouldn’t...couldn’t throw out the modern pharmacopoeia for it, western medicine has saved my life more times than I can count.

[ Post Comment ]

 
Comment #10 posted by whig on February 27, 2006 at 13:33:28 PT
BGreen
Mainstream medicine does a lot of harm, but it also does do some good. The problem is neither science nor nature, but the exclusion of either.

The allopaths condemn the homeopaths, the homeopaths condemn the allopaths. Both are wrong in their condemnation.

The exclusion of cannabis and other natural treatments from the apothecary, the replacement of the apothecary with the pharmacist, the regulation, control and strangulation of all alternatives, this is harming us. But let us not retaliate in kind.

[ Post Comment ]

 
Comment #9 posted by FoM on February 27, 2006 at 13:26:23 PT
Just a Note
I hope everyone is having a good day. News is slow so I'm getting a few things done around my house. I'll keep looking for news but there just isn't much happening right now.

[ Post Comment ]
 
Comment #8 posted by whig on February 27, 2006 at 13:20:54 PT
Dividing Canaan
Bleeding heart

Persian shield

Cat's whiskers

Royal palm

Sweet alyssum

Petting bamboo

Orange jasmine

Clitoria blue pea

Downy jasmine

Datura

Frangipani

Frangipani

[ Post Comment ]

 
Comment #7 posted by BGreen on February 27, 2006 at 12:56:34 PT
The success of modern science
The success of modern science has created "medicine slaves" who are perpetually sick and in need of more "medicine" created by modern science.

Modern science has made most of the people I know even sicker than they ever were, not to mention the major side effect of being broke.

CNS stimulants are by their very mechanisms related, even if not in chemical structure.

I find it quite amazing that not a single one of those poisonous plants you mentioned besides ephedra is illegal to grow, possess or ingest.

Modern science is money and the ability to gain more money from the sickest and weakest.

The Reverend Bud Green

[ Post Comment ]

 
Comment #6 posted by 420toker on February 27, 2006 at 12:43:59 PT
ephedra, psuedoephedrine and amphetamine
first off ephedra has been used for many centuries as an herbal remedy for many things, it is however NOT a cough remedy specifically it is a decongestant, ephedrine itself is a bronchiodialator and amphetamine is not ritilan and has little to do with either of these except that both ephedrine and pseudoephedrine can be precursors to clandestine Amphetamine manufacturer. Im all for herbs, god knows I have consumed many of them but I am also pro reality and the simple fact is there are herbs that will freaking KILL you in their natural forms. examples beladonna, digitalis, blood-root, celandine, chaparral, foxglove, goldenseal, henbane, iris root, Jimson weed, lobelia, May apple (American mandrake), mistletoe, poke root, poison hemlock, stillingia root, turkey corn root, wild cucumber root.

These will help one thing but could very well kill you with liver, kidney or heart failure. Im all for finding natural remedies and attempting to create a related drug that performs all the function of the herb without the guesswork in dosing and is easily despensable. The reality is modern medicine is better than it has ever been with only very minor exceptions (usually related to gvmt intervention) but I am not going to kid myself or try to pump my own argument for legalizing marijuana by cutting down an obvios success of modern science.

Now if you would like to discuss pharmaceutical corporations and how they screw over every american alive while padding the pocketbooks of politicians to specifically stop or turn back progress in medicine or wish do discuss the differences in Amphetamine and their precursors, I will do so.

[ Post Comment ]

 
Comment #5 posted by Sam Adams on February 27, 2006 at 11:31:09 PT
siege
thats for that article - let's not forget that Mormon Tea aka ephedra was temporarily banned and is definitely blacklisted, but it IS LEGAL! Hard to believe, but it is a glimmer of hope for us herbalists that all is not lost!



[ Post Comment ]

 
Comment #4 posted by Sam Adams on February 27, 2006 at 11:28:20 PT
oh boy
Why is it so hard for newspaper writers to figure out the supply issue?

"Pharmacies cannot fill prescriptions because it is included on the federal government's list of most restricted controlled substances. But most of the 11 states have some form licensing for marijuana growers or dispensaries.

Rhode Island legislators did not address that issue. That leaves patients or their caregivers to buy it on the streets like common drug criminals. The law makes no provision for the state to regulate it. That's unacceptable."

OK, that's WRONG. RI's bill addressed the supply issue the same way that all 11 over states did: with a doctor's recommendation, patients are permitted to grow cannabis, and patients are legally allowed to buy it from the black market. Not only that, the state is specifically vested to REGULATE said process through the Dept. of Public Health.

Either I'm really, really, smart or most of the media is......not. Because this stuff seems incredibly simple to me, and they can't ever seem to get it right.

And somehow, they always forget that right now, sick people are buying cannabis just like "common drug criminals". Actually, 100 million of us Americans ARE "common drug criminals".

*sigh* sometimes I get this overwhelming feeling of trying to swim upstream. The truth is, our American culture is all about crime and criminals. Most people apparently love it that way. They love to watch TV to see perps being arrested and prosecuted by really young, sexy people. They love to HATE criminals, yet somehow be hypocrite enough to accept the criminals in their family as OK (i.e., their pot-smoking kids, for whom they're working their entire adult life to spoil with material goods & then pay $150,000 to smoke & drink their way through college).

OK, I'm rambling, but you have to think that we'll never see a decrease in prisons, prisoners, or laws criminalizing various activity while 80% of the population is being brainwashed by crime TV every night. Yes, this is a country where the sight of people making love, or even a woman's breast, is outrageous taboo, yet every night the graphic stabbings, beatings, and shootings roll from 100 channels right into our childrens' minds.



[ Post Comment ]

 
Comment #3 posted by siege on February 27, 2006 at 11:08:53 PT
DRUG COMPANIES USE NATURAL CURES TO DESIGN NEW DRU
DRUG COMPANIES USE NATURAL CURES TO DESIGN NEW DRUGS

Shane Ellison M. Sc. February 26, 2006 NewsWithViews.com

Most medical doctors are hostile toward the use of nutritional supplements. They parrot that they are ineffective and possibly dangerous due to a lack of scientific evidence supporting them. Not true. A mountain of evidence exists. And it points to some fascinating and highly effective nutritional supplements.

To obtain new drugs, pharmaceutical chemists, like myself, rigorously study nutritional supplements (i.e. natural products). Once a single active ingredient is identified a chemist makes a “copy-cat.” The drug company then calls it their own. Simply put, if the study of nutritional supplements did not exist then drugs would not be possible.

Most every drug sold today has a natural-based predecessor. Drug companies and medical doctors obfuscate this historical fact. They like patients to think that drugs are intuitively invented out of thin air. This helps foster the very profitable belief that drugs are the only option for health. Understanding that nutritional supplements guide drug development will allow you more choices in health care – inexpensive and safe ones. Consider the following examples:

Pseudoephedrine is an ingredient found in over-the-counter cough syrup. It is a knock-off of the active ingredients found in “Mormon tea.” In 2004, the Annals of Emergency Medicine noted that pseudoephedrine is so damaging to the heart that it can elicit a heart attack among users – even healthy ones. In sharp contrast, naturally-occurring Mormon tea can be safely used as a cough suppressant. Today however, it is black listed while pseudoephedrine remains on the shelves of every corner grocery store in America.

Ritalin and many other stimulants are knock-offs of the active ingredients found in ma huang AKA ephedra. Ritalin is an amphetamine. As such, it can cause addiction and brain cell death. Despite false propaganda, Ma huang is a safe and effective stimulant that increases mental focus without damaging the body. Ma huang is black listed while Ritalin is dispensed to children.

http://www.newswithviews.com/Ellison/shane21.htm

[ Post Comment ]

 
Comment #2 posted by FoM on February 27, 2006 at 09:14:40 PT
Off Topic: Snipped Source
Drug Law's Failures Spur Get-Tough Call

***

By Laura Mecoy -- Bee Los Angeles Bureau

Monday, February 27, 2006

Story appeared on Page A1 of The Bee

Five years after Californians revolutionized state drug sentencing by adopting Proposition 36, the widely supported initiative is facing a major overhaul because it's graduating only a fourth of those ordered into treatment.

Statewide, more than a fourth never show up for their first assessment for the program. One study found offenders sentenced under Proposition 36 are more likely to have a new drug arrest within a year than those arrested for the same crime before the initiative went into effect.

Complete Article: http://www.sacbee.com/content/politics/projects/prop36/story/14223075p-15048287c.html

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Comment #1 posted by FoM on February 27, 2006 at 08:58:35 PT
Portion of AlterNet Article: Reefer Medicine
February 27, 2006

Isn't being horribly sick punishment enough without having the FBI, DEA, and other police agents busting down your door to throw you in jail? Unfortunately, the federal government's crackpot drug war has turned cops into drug thugs as they pursue an insane, inhumane, ideologically driven policy of cracking down on seriously sick people who use doctor-prescribed marijuana to treat the chronic pain and nausea of cancer, AIDS, multiple sclerosis, polio, and other harsh illnesses.

Two years ago, nine armed members of a DEA task force raided Don Nord's home in Hayden, Colorado, arresting him and seizing his three marijuana plants. Nord is no drug dealer -- he's a disabled, wheelchair-bound, 57-year-old man battling kidney cancer, diabetes, lung disease, and other problems. He was not toking on reefer for a joy ride, but using the marijuana under a doctor's supervision as a medical necessity.

Meet Suzanne Pfeil. She is paralyzed by post-polio syndrome and was under the care of WAAM, the Wo/Men's Alliance for Medical Marijuana in Santa Cruz, California. In 2002, she was awakened by five DEA agents pointing automatic rifles at her head. WAAM is a non-commercial medical co-op that, with the blessing of local officials, maintained a marijuana garden at its hospice to treat its 225 members, 85 percent of whom were terminally ill. In the early hours of September 5, the DEA burst in. They terrified the patients, charged two with violating federal drug law, ripped up the coop's garden, handcuffed WAAM's two founders, and took them to jail.

This was too much even for the arch-conservative editors of the Orange County Register, who called DEA's actions "an unwarranted and extreme operation against sick people … Such cruel raids suggest that a law that can be used to terrorize sick people is in need of reconsideration." But Washington -- under Democratic administrations as well as Republican -- has done nothing to stop the stupidity, instead continuing to sanction such extremism in the name of looking tough in the drug war. Last year on June 15, for example, Congress voted 264-161 against allowing the ill to use this proven treatment.

These people are nuts … and dangerous. Luckily, though, there's sanity among grassroots folks. Polls constantly show overwhelming support for laws to let the sick use doctor-prescribed marijuana. The latest Gallup survey shows 78 percent of Americans backing such common sense. Lest you think that's a lot of blue-state, smoke-induced, ex-hippie sentiment talking, independent polls in the deep red states of Alabama and Texas register three-to-one margins in favor of medical marijuana, including 67 percent support among Texas Republicans!

More significantly, when given a chance, people are voting their convictions. Led by the Marijuana Policy Project, coalitions of doctors, nurses, and patients have come together to raise common sense to high places. Defying the furious fulminations and fervid opposition of assorted drug czars from Washington, voters in 11 states and numerous cities have already approved the medical use of marijuana by compelling margins. Let's do a brief roll call:

In 2004, while Bush was easily winning the majority of Montana voters, those same people approved by a two-to-one margin a medical marijuana initiative that the White House had adamantly opposed.

In 2003, Maryland Governor Robert Ehrlich became the first Republican head of state to sign medical marijuana into law. This came in the face of ferocious campaigning by the White House drug czar to get Ehrlich to veto the bill. Flexing his ignorance, the czar told Marylanders that marijuana was "medicinal crack."

This year, Rhode Island became the 11th common-sense state when more than three-fifths of legislators voted to override the Republican governor's veto of a bill to protect medical-marijuana patients from arrest. The bill had passed 30-0 in the senate, 52-10 in the house.

In Michigan, cities are taking the initiative. In the past two years, Detroit okayed marijuana use by a 60-40 vote, Ann Arbor by 74-26, Ferndale by 61-39, and Traverse City by 63-37.

Complete Article: http://www.alternet.org/story/32483/

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