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  Increased Police Powers Broader Than Announced
Posted by FoM on September 20, 2001 at 11:02:18 PT
By Jesse J. Holland, Associated Press 
Source: Associated Press 

justice Lawmakers say they will carefully examine the Bush administration's anti-terrorism package before moving forward with legislation that civil liberty groups warn could curtail American freedom.

Attorney General John Ashcroft, who wants measures such as allowing prosecutors to use information collected by foreign governments in ways that are unconstitutional here, would like the legislation passed by week's end.

Instead, the House Judiciary Committee chairman, Rep. James Sensenbrenner, R-Wis., said he would hold hearings before considering the legislation. And the Senate Judiciary Committee chairman, Sen. Patrick Leahy, D-Vt., said he was working on his own version of an anti-terrorism bill.

Leahy would create a counterterrorism and homeland security office led by a deputy FBI director. He also wants to double the number of federal judges who authorize surveillance of suspected terrorists and tripling the number of Border Patrol and U.S. Customs Service agents on the U.S.-Canadian border.

''We're trying to find a middle ground, and I think we can,'' Leahy said after meeting with Ashcroft.

Ashcroft plans to go before the Senate Judiciary Committee Tuesday to argue for his bill, though even Republicans say it could be weeks before anything get through Congress, said Leahy. He pointed out that it took months for Congress to agree on new legislation after the Oklahoma City bombing.

A slowdown is exactly what an unusual liberal-conservative alliance wants, saying a rush on this legislation would be an assault on civil liberties. ''This proposal addresses issues that are well beyond the scope of fighting terrorism,'' said David Sobel of the Washington-based Electronic Privacy Information Center.

Sobel's group is one of several that has signed a letter to lawmakers stating they should ''resist the temptation to enact proposals in the mistaken belief that anything that may be called anti-terrorist will necessarily provide greater security.'' A draft was obtained Wednesday by The Associated Press.

Ashcroft, standing outside the site where a hijacked plane slammed into the Pentagon on Sept. 11, said he was deeply concerned about civil liberties.

But ''we will not fail to use any tools that can promote apprehension and disruption of the networks that caused these damages and prevent similar recurrences in the future,'' he said.

Under the administration proposal, the FBI and other police agencies would be able to seize billing information like credit card numbers from Internet companies without a court order, according to a Justice Department analysis.

''In many cases, users register with Internet service providers using false names, making the form of payment critical to determining the user's true identity,'' said the analysis, which was provided to senators on Wednesday.

In addition, the legislation would allow the use of electronic surveillance gathered by foreign governments with methods that violate the Fourth Amendment protection against unreasonable search and seizure in American courts against American citizens, the Justice Department analysis said.

Still prohibited, it noted, would be the use in court of information gathered unconstitutionally overseas if U.S. prosecutors participated in ordering the collection of it.

In addition to the provisions he announced publicly, Ashcroft's legislation, according to his department's analysis, would:

Expand the definition of a terrorist in the Alien Terrorist Removal Court to anyone who knows or should know that an organization they support in any way is a terrorist organization. ''This legislation seeks to stop the provision of support to terrorist organizations through sham non-terrorist organizations,'' the analysis said.

Make illegal the possession of chemicals that could be used as biological weapons in quantities that cannot be justified by a ''prophylactic, protective or peaceful purpose.''

Make illegal giving expert advice to terrorists, ''for example, advice provided by a person with expertise in aviation matters to facilitate an aircraft hijacking.''

Allow seizing the property of any person, organization or country that attacks the United States, even without a declaration of war.

Demand educational records of suspected terrorists. Currently, officials cannot look at anyone's educational records without the consent of the student or his parents.

Allow the attorney general to offer any amount as a reward to fight terrorists, lifting the $2 million current limit.

Allow police to take DNA samples from convicted terrorists.

Complete Title: Increased Police Powers Broader Than Announced; Civil Liberty Groups Concerned

On the Net:

Justice Department: http://www.usdoj.gov

Senate Judiciary: http://judiciary.senate.gov

House Judiciary: http://www.house.gov/judiciary

Newshawk: Nicholas Thimmesch II
NORML Media & Communications
Source: Associated Press
Author: Jesse J. Holland, Associated Press
Published: September 20, 2001
Copyright: 2001 Associated Press

Related Articles & Web Site:

Holy Warriors Escalate an Old War
http://freedomtoexhale.com/hw.htm

Tight Border Security Slows Trafficking
http://cannabisnews.com/news/thread10937.shtml

FBI Tracking Terrorist Groups
http://cannabisnews.com/news/thread10933.shtml

For Now, Security Trumps Liberties
http://cannabisnews.com/news/thread10931.shtml


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Comment #11 posted by kaptinemo on September 21, 2001 at 05:54:59 PT:

It's a bitch being being an educated Cassandra
From:

Cassandra's Prophesies for Troy http://www.arthistory.sbc.edu/imageswomen/papers/fittoncassandra/cass3.html

" Once Cassandra had been cursed by Apollo to prophesy the truth but never be believed,

Warning of disaster, that's what we're doing. And people thought we were nuts. They still do. They can't see the awful path that this could take; today, we have the Shrub's announcement of a "Homeland Defense" Cabinet position. Tomorrow, we may yet see a "Ministry of Truth". Any sci-fi fans out there who watched the series Babylon 5 know where this is leading.

Cassandra caught Hell for her troubles. We can expect the same for warning of what is about to take place. The sheeple are being stampeded into a course of action which may leave tens if not hundreds of thousands dead at home from terr retaliation via nukes, bugs and nerve gas, thousands more incarcerated without trial or writ of habeas corpus and a totalitarian governmment as the sole remaining superpower capable of enfocing a Pax Americana just like the Pax Romana did...by threat of annihilation.

May God have mercy upon us all.

[ Post Comment ]

 
Comment #10 posted by Dan B on September 21, 2001 at 03:27:20 PT:

Clarification of my Post
I appreciate the comments both in support of and pointing out weaknesses in my first post for this article.

I want to make something clear about such posts: I realize that I am positing the worst case scenario. My hope is that we will never have to experience the horrors about which I write. Often, when I express my fears, that is all I am really doing. I don't mean to predict doom and gloom; I just want to express how far these things can go.

I try to not apologize in this forum (FoM has expressly told me on more than one occasion that such gestures are not necessary--that we all are just trying to make sense of things--and I appreciate that), but I will say that I hope my words in comment #1 did/do not exacerbate anyone's already depressed state regarding what is going on in the country.

I do have hope. I do believe that we can change the world, even if it is an agonizingly slow process. That is why I am sometimes so negative about the possibilities: I want to express the worst so that we can work toward something better. I am saddened when such predictions are proved correct, but I am happy to report that more often than not my negative predictions are wrong.

As the good book says, "be of good cheer."

Hope is a wonderful thing. It is what keeps us coming back to this forum and expressing both our fears and our dreams.

Dan B

[ Post Comment ]

 
Comment #9 posted by Rambler on September 21, 2001 at 02:50:19 PT
1651
"So that in the first place, I put for a general inclination of all mankind, a perpetual and restless desire of Power after power, that ceaseth only in Death. And the cause of this, is not always that a man hopes for a more intensive delight, that he has already attained to; or that he cannot be content with a moderate power: but because he cannot assure the power and means to live will, which he hath present, without the acquisition of more.” Thomas Hobbes Leviathan, 1651

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Comment #8 posted by dddd on September 21, 2001 at 02:22:58 PT
Sir New Mexican and Dr. Dan
..New Mexican,,I appreciate your positive outlook,and I completely agree that hope is one thing that cannot be taken away,,and that's good,because that's about all we got.

..Dr.Dan,,your analysis is right on,IMHO.......

I say again,that this is use of the national media as a propaganda machine,in the most disgustingly devious,one-sided utilization of an owned,no longer free press yet!It has been made to appear that the whole country approves of whatever the Evil Empire wants to do.The voice of dissent is non-exsistant.There is only one basic difference between the state controlled,and sponsored media in China,the former Soviet Union,and other countries with government controlled press,is that most Americans are totally unaware of the cult-like illusion of the US media,which they continue to swallow,hook,line and sinker,,without question.

Prepare for the absurdest of times,,,the madness is only going to get worse,,all we can do is hope,,that's all we can do......

dddd

[ Post Comment ]

 
Comment #7 posted by New Mexican on September 21, 2001 at 01:07:37 PT
Thanks for that dddd! I'm with you Dan!
BUT....I still have hope and that can't be taken away, not to sound nieve. I suggest we visualize the world we want, and know that will be our reality, and it will be made so. It has to be that way. That is how we got this far. We've been living in this nuclear cowboy age for the last 60 years and its gonna go. It has expired. Defunct, purposeless, and antiquated before it was invented. So cheer up, as there is two sides (at a minimum) to every story, and the assault on dissent and freedom will backfire, making other countries new bastions of democracy, while laughing at our primitive corporatized version that only inspires greater theft-proof alternatives billed 'Democracy Plus!' This is our worst fear and greatest opportunity. We all new it was coming and now it is here: 'global imperialism, American style. More will suffer than gain from the installment of the new world order (the upside to 911), and that will reverse the tide in humanities' favor, at some later point. (After way too many lives are sacrificed by our gov., and only for mans' baser instincts to be fulfilled). Revenge, Suffering, Retaliation, etc. If we used hemp for fuel all this fighting would be rendered pointless. This tragic event must be leading up to that conclusion: hemp=clean survival, oil=toxic illness. Focus on love if you can, as that's all we ever had anyway. And like hope, it can never be taken away.

[ Post Comment ]
 
Comment #6 posted by dddd on September 20, 2001 at 22:27:12 PT
BAD NIGHTMARE
....I am blasted out of the universe by this bizarre speech tonight!!!....The language used by the prezidunt was unbelievable!!It was like some Kafka meets L.Ron Hubbard,in an Orwellian interpretation of a speech by Nakita Krusckev,that was written by Sun Myung Moon,at a VFW,Elks Club lodge somewhere in the outskirts of Kamchatka! This is as close to sci-fi as it gets.

Perhaps the most disturbing part of it all,is the zombie sheeples total lack of reaction,,,BUT!,,that is only how it has been made to appear!...It is made to appear that we all support this insanity.It is made to appear that everyone in the country agrees with this absurd use of our military,in an open ended declaration of war,against a concept.,,,,,A concept that has no face,except this bin Laden guy,,,apart from that,this war is pretty much a war against ANYONE,who can be labelled as "terrorist",or anyone who has a friend,or family member who is labeled as a terrorist,,or even anyone they think MIGHT be a terrorist!

to put it mildly;,,,,,,,,,,,,it aint pretty,,,,,,,,,not pretty at all............indeedddd

[ Post Comment ]

 
Comment #5 posted by mr greengenes on September 20, 2001 at 17:12:01 PT
Carlin
As George Carlin says, war is just an international dick waving contest. Or words to that effect.

[ Post Comment ]
 
Comment #4 posted by aocp on September 20, 2001 at 17:10:48 PT
Re: CS...
One of the things that i cannot abide by these days is the outright bloodLUST that just envelopes people everywhere. A local radio morning show practically endorsed "kicking the ass" of protesters at Univ of Michigan's anti-war gathering. I view our actions of punishment as the need to put down a rabid dog and not as the desire to enact vengance. Such bloodlust convinces me that we're not any better than the suicidal crazies that did this. Who the hell wants the base concept of "war"? Excuse me while i step aside.

Oh, and i heard of the policy idea of requiring nat'l ids from just those of arabic background in this country. Spot the difference between that and a yellow star of David. I feel ill.

[ Post Comment ]

 
Comment #3 posted by CongressmanSuet on September 20, 2001 at 15:48:36 PT
Rural Amerika speaks!
True life conversation at my "local" barbershop: man1:Thats what the military is for, to fight when we need them. They shouldnt have joined if they didnt expect war. man2: We have to take em ALL out, its the only way. man3: I saw an arab last week, had the thing on his head, it was stupid. man1: No one is gonna push us around, we need to wipe out the country, and send any here back. man2: We should use em as shields when we go to fight. man3: I remember...[5 minute "recolection" of personal experience in Korea] we were ready when our country needed us, if they said die, we would die. The amount of hate around here is incredible. Its so blind, and the word "kill" has gained even more popularity. It seems some of the older residents kind of relish the idea of Amerika showing how tough she is, and going to war is the way to do it! Another interesting piece of news, 2 Lebanese MDs were questioned by the FBI here today, supposedly because thay still have family there. One of them answered the questions and was released. The other refused to answer questions, got very upset, said something to the effect that maybe we deserved it, and was involved in a brawl with them, that got him Disorderly Conduct charges. Paranoia, Amerika embraces you!

[ Post Comment ]
 
Comment #2 posted by PoiXXXDays on September 20, 2001 at 15:31:28 PT:

TERRORISM is not DRUG USE
I do not think all of these proposals are bad. Terrorism and drug use are two different things. We should continue to point out that harm reduction defunds the bad people. If all of these proposals were made legal as well as alll drugs being made legal I do not think anybody here would have a problem.

[ Post Comment ]
 
Comment #1 posted by Dan B on September 20, 2001 at 14:16:28 PT:

Here it comes, folks
Expand the definition of a terrorist in the Alien Terrorist Removal Court to anyone who knows or should know that an organization they support in any way is a terrorist organization. ''This legislation seeks to stop the provision of support to terrorist organizations through sham non-terrorist organizations,'' the analysis said.

Well, then, I guess I should tell the university to stop witholding taxes from my paycheck, as they quite obviously go to support a terrorist organization (not including the U. S. government itself, $43 million in our tax money went to fund Osama bin Laden's, thus the Taliban's, terrorist attack on the World Trade Center and the Pentagon).

Make illegal the possession of chemicals that could be used as biological weapons in quantities that cannot be justified by a ''prophylactic, protective or peaceful purpose.''

Look for them using this one in the war on some drugs, too. All they'll have to do is call heroin, ecstacy, methamphetamine, or any other currently illegal drug a "biological weapon," and therein lies another excuse to ram down people's doors, ransack their homes, cart them off to jail, and steal their possessions.

Make illegal giving expert advice to terrorists, ''for example, advice provided by a person with expertise in aviation matters to facilitate an aircraft hijacking.''

Here we go again. They're taking the back door into legally monitoring our personal communication. As soon as they identify all drug use as "sponsoring terrorist activity" (they've already made the connection between drug money and terrorists, and they aren't about to wake up and realize it's their own damn fault), every drug user in the country can be tried for treason. Those of us who support changes in drug policy, even if we do not use drugs, will also be considered guilty of treason, and so begins the latest United States sponsored global holocaust.

And don't even think about being a flight instructor; if the wrong person comes to your school, you will be held accountable for his or her actions. Talk about racial profiling, soon there will be no flight schools catering to people of Middle Eastern descent in this country. Why risk certain death at the hands of the U.S. government?

Allow seizing the property of any person, organization or country that attacks the United States, even without a declaration of war.

That's right, folks. We don't have to declare war on them; they just have to declare war on us. And they already have. If you use drugs in America, soon your possessions will be the United States possessions (if they are not already), and you will be kicked to the gutter, if not sent to the death chamber.

Drug trafficking (including passing that joint to a friend) will likely be considered a treasonous offense very soon. And treason is punishable by death.

Drug Warriors have been itching for this kind of blanket lattitude for a long time, and you can bet that they will at least attempt to use it.

The potential effects of these policies is absolutely bonechilling. Were it not for the good people I know--family and friends, including my friends here at Cannabis News, who understand the truth and are willing to speak out against the atrocities being committed by the U. S. government (I am speaking now, while the 1st amendment is still mostly intact--in a couple of weeks we may have lost that freedom altogether), I would conclude that there is no hope for the world. We are doomed to extinction if things keep going as they are.

All of this, of course, IMHO.

Dan B



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