first of all i believe in "innocent until proven guilty..."

if this is a war, torture is against the geneva
convention...but if he's tried in our courts, i'm sure a
willing doctor will find that bin laden has life threatening
infections in all his extremities as well as his tongue...

i'm sure you read my post a few days ago about the
possibility that tim mcveigh's pals might have done this...

osama bin laden has already bragged of other terrorist acts
that would make him eligible for any kind of punishment the
mind of man can conceive...

as for our own government's credibility, ask yourself
this...what is the quickest way for a president to get the
people in his corner?...have a popular war against an evil
enemy...

i'm not saying the last thought is a likely scenario...the
risk of discovery is far too great...but if he thought it
would work...

all we really know about who did this is what the government
is willing to tell us...i'm not likely to believe ANYTHING
that the shrub's administration says, without other
corroberation...they have their own agenda and it isn't that
of the american people...

anybody thought about possible events in columbia the last
few days?

Three things that men should not fight about..
Politics
Women
Religions

It is pretty simple for me. I discussed with my 17 yr old boy and he agreed that he will not go to a war that make no sense. I told him that I would support him if he hits the road to Canada. I want him out of this insanity. I will not support this anger.

Thanks Mari for this quote: "Anger is a wind which blows out the lamp of the mind"

I went to a social gathering today, had an interesting discussion with folks about the WTC. Most of them did not know that it was the America governement who gave 132 millions dollars to Afghans that have the worst human abuses in the world while they were haboring bin laden.

At first, they were like pissed that I said it was our fault when it were our tax money that foot the bill. I had to point it out that it were our money.
It was like a light suddenly open their minds. One guy said," Man, you do have a point there."

There is a story why about why no army in the world would want to use any deaf man to fight a dirty war was because of what happened during Nazi time. The Nazi tried to put a deaf man in front line of a battle that the nazi lost. The reason the nazis lost that battle was because that deaf man simply put his hands up in the air when the battle began. Too many bullets flying about and he just simply drop his gun and put his hands up in the air. In my book, that man is pretty smart dude.

Anyway, I love my country but I will not support any more anger. I may be a deaf man but hey, I am sure very tired of reading(listening) to so much anger.

Please I beg you, America, give Peace a chance.

ff

a few years ago, i learned to hate an individual with all my
heart and soul...fortunately the police found him first...in
the period they kept him, i learned to put his fate and
punishment in god's hands..

but during the interim i dreamed up a few "just" punishments...

bin Laden's fate:

We must ask ourselves WHY we were attacked. Could it be that our foreign policies of intimidation & coercion have finally come back to bite us in the ass?

Don't get me wrong, I am a patriot in the truest sense, but in all honesty I am not surprised by the attacks. I am only surprised that something like this hadn't happened sooner.

As long as Americans support a greedy government that is hell bent on pursuing the earth's resources & dominating the world, we will see more acts of terror in the future.

Who said, "I love my country, but I fear my government"? They must have been an American.

The calling up of the national guard is also a little confusing to say the least. their mission has not been clearly justified to me. I've read that their job is to "keep alert". Alert to what? Guys with razor blades? I'm very very suspicious. And Bush himself has said this is not a short term affair. You know there are Muslim cells in the Philippines, there are the violent Basques in the heart of Europe, the Extraditables may make a comeback - so many terror orgainzations and Bush says he's going to eradicate them. Eradicate? Like we've eradicated drugs? To me this means institutionalize a condition of permanent war against terrorism and permanent near-martial law. I wonder if we'll be able to still post comments a year or even a few months from now. Maybe they will all have to be graded before they can be posted.

Lately I have been having lots of unthinkable thoughts. I'm not claiming they're true, but We all like to consider possibilities:

--the Pennsylvania plane was shot down by a u.s. fighter. it was about 250 miles from D.C. the u.s. military will not admit this.

--the whole attack was possible not just because the g was lax or deficient or distracted, but was in fact allowed so that a military government could be installed.

--bin Laden, months ago, bought a copule of a-bombs from Iraq or Iran who got them from Russia. he had the colombians stuff them into a 40-gallon oil drum stenciled with big red letters COCAINE making it easy to smuggle thru the border and now they're in place waiting. really, the plane attack took a long time to plan, and it's not the only thing that was on his mind.

sorry, FoM, I'm sure you understood my initial comment.

I think that maybe Bush, enjoying a lot of latitude at the moment, is going to overstep himself, display his profound stupidity, and lose a lot of the support he now enjoys. Our country would get a real break, and dddd too, if the TV news people finally just found the propaganda too much even for them and started demanding answers and considering possibilities.

And while I have heard of some good reportage on the television, showing people with different ideas than the standard conventional wisdom, every time I've watched, it has been about increasing the War fever, and how there is a new fashion trend to wear red, white, and blue. There is emphasis that there is no dissent, that we all stand together. Of course, that depends on what we are standing together for, and if that is a blank check for the government to do whatever it wants to whomever it wants, then, as we have seen from these CNews stories, people are not together on that.

http://www.theepicenter.com/

www.theepicenter.com

Not to hang him, too good for the worthless whatever he may be. He surely is no God fearing man.
I would string the bastard up by his balls and pour sand up his ass until the rope breaks!

The wanton death and destruction has caused untold human misery on our land. In the very near future, for good reason, others of his ilk will experience the same. We have been duped, and that is all there is to it.

The people running our government have been instrumental in allowing this madman to develop his organization to what it is and, in my opinion, are just as culpaple. I will spare them my wrath. I will depend on the wrath of GOD to handle that unwanted task. I know we deserve better than what we have, and what we have ain't worth having.

I know the military can extricate us from this mess, bloated and possibly corrupt as it may be. The politicians can go home, face their constituents and try to explain their actions. If they dare. We won't be fooled again.

There ain't no fools like the political fools, says....theropinfool

...I'm Shocked,,again,and again,,with each new twist that the news parrots.
..earlier,on ABC,,they had this thing with a room full of school kids,,4th graders,
and this lady is asking them what they think about the recent events,,,then,as
we might expect,,she ask "what do you think we should do to the terrorists who
did this?".....they showed the kids saying,,we should kill them because it was bad
of thenm to kill us",,and other such carefully assembled and edited snippets.It reminded
me of the 4th grade class that was showcased to our tour group in Moscow,1976.
It was Lenin Elementary school,,and these kids had this rehearsed show for us
westerners,with little songs about how wonderful the Soviet Union was,and how
great Lenin is,,,,and I kid you not,,,there were pictures on the walls,,the type
one might see in sunday school,with Jesus blessing the children,but it was Lenin
in the place of Jesus...
...If I was asked to give a "scary-ness"rating,,,I'd say;
..."I dont do scay-ness ratings."
..then,,I'd say,,,"OK,,,I'll give you one....on the scale of 1 to 10,(1 being not
that scary,,,10 being shitting your pants scary),,I'd say;
..Scaryness of terrorists........3
...Scaryness of new corporate evil empire......9.3
...I cant get over it!...The way the media is now dominated,,,and is involved in
a government sponsored conspiracy to manipulate the public,,,,I think it is
REALLY ALARMING,,,,,,but I will no longer harp on the subject here.I've
already ranted like the village idiot,,or some kind of misguided Paul Revere
cartoon........

cheers

Sort of like, why shed a tear for the ________ (fill in with same term from the blank above) our beelicose factions are pursuing as long they aren't pursuing us?

I mean, I am assuming they have to keep themselves busy pursuing, torturing, and killing someone (kind of like FoM's theory that they will manufacture a need for war if there is no real need?), but am I being selfish if I felt the sentiments expressed in the quote above, or I am just being a self-preservationist?

NOTE: "Towel-heads" is in a quotation above [and here] for a reason, to wit: it's not my choice of language but a reflection of the angry and prejudiced feelings one gets from the media provided profiles of "American sentiment".

Be well.

a covert operation, carefully planned, to capture the
perpetrators makes alot more sense to me...since our CIA and
FBI are so inept at everything except making stupid
mistakes, maybe they could call on israel to help do the
"dirty work"...they are the best at this, out of necessity...

i've always heard that the afghani's are the toughest
adversaries on this planet...a ground war with them would be
a war of attrition, neverending...

And it is time to re-examine our options, with clearer heads, and our emotions in check.

War on whom, indeed.

I am NOT comfortable with the way we are focusing on striking the Afghans: the afghan people have done NOTHING to us. True, the Taliban may harbour some guy we keep putting pictures of on TV: some guy we allege to have done this or that. I am not certain I can accept everything I hear, especially in time of war: Truth is the first casualty of war.

I am essentially a pacifist: I get a kick from talking tough sometimes, but I honestly don't want to hurt anybody. I can, however, take care of myself and I would not tolerate an assault on my being. The Attack on the US is an attack on me, but I am powerless to do anything about that: it is bigger than me. It does not make me want to simply blow up other people.

The intelligence community is responsible for generating the directions to go in this situation: not emotional politicians hoping to use this event to go pork-barraling and get some early re-election photo-ops and sound-bytes.

If this bin Laden guy IS to blame, the Taliban needs to turn him over. We can set an example militarily or in a civil manner. Given the nature and history of the we are going to engage, CIVILITY might be a very bright idea: for US and them.

ZZ-Top Wannabe? I love Michael!

...TV coverage of todays Federal Prayer Showcase,approached
the point of being like some Maury Povich production of the 700 Club
meets the McGlaughlin Group!...and the Bush visits 'ground zero'
production was absolutely grotesque....all major non-cable network
coverage was very consistantly similar.,,,,,and it is getting even
more blatant and obvious by the hour.....I hate to keep beating
this dead horse,,,but I am really alarmed by the government/media
collusion!.....It's a BIGGIE,,,as far as the overall picture goes!..
..It's not some little minor problem,that is somehow insignificant
when compared to other problems!!It's the Mother Of All Problems.
....It's not a game,,,,it's not something that will work itself out!!
...it's not something that many people will realize,or talk about..

Once again,,,,,if this aint the big deal I keep raving about it being,,,
,as I said before,,,,,
I will eat a piece of fresh catshit!..

Right on, Mike.

No one will listen. Anger fills them. Rage fills them. Righteousness fills them.

Everyone is wrapped in the flag and the snowball is rolling and building and headed downhill fast.

I must admit to being filled with a certain amount of rage. I must control it.

It's not for the terrorists. It's not for the Taliban. It's for those calling themselves the vanguard of truth and justice and righteousness and moral certainty and the American way. I've got to control it.

Maybe it's time for a cancer stick, because I'm finding it difficult to calm myself.

May god have mercy on us all.

Mother, mother, there's too many of you crying
Brother, brother, brother, there's far too many of you dying
You know we'ver got to find a way
To bring some lovin' here today, hey