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  War on Whom?
Posted by FoM on September 14, 2001 at 20:10:12 PT
By Michael Moore, AlterNet 
Source: AlterNet 

justice I am on the road tonight, the only way to get out of L.A. and back home to our daughter and our friends in New York City. Oddly enough, I have never driven across this vast country. My wife and I have now stopped in Flagstaff for a few hours sleep before moving on.

The sorrow and anger builds across America. Talk radio tonight was filled with calls for carpet-bombing every Arab country. Many want revenge, blood. But a surprising number of people have called for us to not add to the killing of more innocent humans.

The rest stops and the convenience stores along the way were filled with quiet, solemn people, many of whom, like us, can get home no other way than by this four-day trip.

Our daughter is fine, mostly frightened by my desire to fly home to her rather than drive. Once again, I was outvoted 2 to 1. This is nothing new.

We have learned of more people we know who have lost their lives. Bill Weems, who worked as a line producer for us this year, was on the flight from Boston that crashed into the World Trade Center. He was such a sweet and decent soul. Such senseless madness.

The children of New York who are orphaned tonight ... what do we say or do? I will do my part -- anything, something -- as soon as I get to New York. But it will never be enough.

The firefighters of New York: they are on every other block, every day, and they are your best neighbors. Sitting out on the sidewalks in front of the fire stations, a good word and a kind smile to all who pass ... now, 350+ of them gone, having risked their lives to save the victims of a carnage they soon became part of.

A good friend from Flint is a clerical worker at the Pentagon. I have heard no word about her condition. I have tried contacting her family to no avail. Her son, Malcolm, worked on our show. I cannot find him. I keep getting tears in my eyes. Once she gave me a tour of the Pentagon, took me everywhere, and got such a kick out of taking me around this building I used to march on. Will our mutual friends who know Barbara, and know how she is, please write me? Please.

The man who occupies the White House cried today. Good. Keep crying, Mr. Bush. The more you cry, the less you will go to that dark side in all humans where anger rages to a point where we want to blindly kill. Your dad's and Reagan's old cronies -- Eagleberger, Baker, Schultz -- are all calling for you to bomb first and ask questions later. You must NOT do this. If only because you do not want to stoop to these mass murderers' level. Yes, find out who did it. Yes, see that they NEVER do it again.

But GET A GRIP, man. "Declare war?" War against whom? One guy in the desert whom we can never seem to find? Are our leaders telling us that the most powerful country on earth cannot dispose of one sick evil f---wad of a guy? Because if that is what you are telling us, then we are truly screwed. If you are unable to take out this lone ZZ Top wannabe, what on earth would you do for us if we were attacked by a nation of millions? For chrissakes, call the Israelis and have them do that thing they do when they want to get their man! We pay them enough billions each year, I am SURE they would be happy to accommodate your request.

But I beg you, Mr. Bush, stay with the tears. Go today to comfort the wounded of New York. Tell the mayor, a guy most of us have not liked, that he is doing an incredible job, keeping the spirits of everyone up as high as they can be at this moment. Being there for a city I believe he loves, his own cancer still with him, he goes beyond the call of duty.

But do not declare war and massacre more innocents. After bin Laden's previous act of terror, our last elected president went and bombed what he said was "bin Laden's camp" in Afghanistan -- but instead just killed civilians. Then he bombed a factory in the Sudan, saying it was "making chemical weapons." It turned out to be making aspirin. Innocent people murdered by our Air Force.

Back in May, you gave the Taliban in Afghanistan $48 million dollars of our tax money. No free nation on earth would give them a cent, but you gave them a gift of $48 million because they said they had "banned all drugs."

Because your drug war was more important than the actual war the Taliban had inflicted on its own people, you helped to fund the regime who had given refuge to the very man you now say is responsible for killing my friend on that plane and for killing the friends of families of thousands and thousands of people. How dare you talk about more killing now! Shame! Shame! Shame! Explain your actions in support of the Taliban! Tell us why your father and his partner Mr. Reagan trained Mr. bin Laden in how to be a terrorist!

Am I angry? You bet I am. I am an American citizen, and my leaders have taken my money to fund mass murder. And now my friends have paid the price with their lives.

Keep crying, Mr. Bush. Keep running to Omaha or wherever it is you go while others die, just as you ran during Vietnam while claiming to be "on duty" in the Air National Guard. Nine boys from my high school died in that miserable war. And now you are asking for "unity" so you can start another one? Do not insult me or my country like this!

Yes, I, too, will be in church at noon today, on this national day of mourning. I will pray for you, and us, and the children of New York, and the children of this sad and ugly world.

Newshawk: puff_tuff
Source: AlterNet (CA)
Author: Michael Moore, AlterNet
Published: September 14, 2001
Copyright: 2001 Independent Media Institute
Contact: info@alternet.org
Website: http://www.alternet.org/
Contact: http://www.alternet.org/contact.html

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http://cannabisnews.com/news/thread10912.shtml

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http://cannabisnews.com/news/thread10907.shtml

During Cold War, Islamic Radicals Were Allies
http://cannabisnews.com/news/thread10903.shtml

CannabisNews Articles - Bin Laden
http://cannabisnews.com/thcgi/search.pl?K=Bin+Laden


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Comment #73 posted by Jeaneous on September 16, 2001 at 15:07:47 PT:

small point
Remember when Daddy Bush was President? The New World Order?

I have not been able to focus my thoughts enough about this act to be verbal. There are too many variables to know which way this will go.



[ Post Comment ]

 
Comment #72 posted by leHder on September 16, 2001 at 09:07:08 PT
terrorism
http://www.freedomtoexhale.com/hw.htm
FoM posted this article yesterday; i meant to comment on it, but want for now only to quote from it:

Beyond that, administration officials who most closely monitor Mr. bin Laden's activities warn that the next round of terror could even involve weapons of mass destruction. Satellite pictures of dead animals on test ranges show that militants have been experimenting with various poisons at a terrorist training camp that Mr. bin Laden runs in eastern Afghanistan.

Officials said that some of the hijackers identified by the F.B.I. this week had lived in the United States for years.

The government had better be working at fever pitch to guarantee that we suffer no more attacks. To hell with the "hammer of vengeance" at least for now, please. First things First, and the g had better have what is important uppermost in mind and in action. As time goes by, I am more and more angry at our own government that this has happened.

-----------
we're all gonna hang together, friends, and shame on you, dddd, for "initiating thought process and concepts"!!


[ Post Comment ]

 
Comment #71 posted by lookinside on September 16, 2001 at 08:38:29 PT:

had a vision...
last night...

title it "after the war on terrorism..."

use the columbia template...a "legal" government that
actually controls only a small part of it's
territory...independent military groups battling the
government and each other for economic control of territory...

the breakup of larger countries into smaller economic and
political units based on ethnicity and/or religious
preferences(a la central europe)

larger, more stable countries reducing or eliminating
civilian control in favor of marshal law to control disident
factions, ultimately precipitating civil war...(china, the
U.S., great britain! think of an independent wales...)

world trade reduced to half of current levels because of
political turmoil...(international financial
collapse...return to barter and hard currency across borders)

countless small wars and acts of barbarism brought on by the
real threat of starvation...

the return of the "dark ages"

this is a very brief outline...add the details as you see
fit...any scenario will probably fit, except a return to
sanity...


[ Post Comment ]

 
Comment #70 posted by FoM on September 16, 2001 at 07:56:20 PT
dddd
Thanks we turned it on!

[ Post Comment ]
 
Comment #69 posted by Silent_Observer on September 16, 2001 at 07:15:21 PT
Thank you, dddd..
You are most kind, and please understand that I, for one, derive nothing but enjoyment from your posts.

I'm also delighted to see Lehder post again - a case could certainly be made for replacing the "h" with an "a"..:)

I do believe that we are all (and I do mean ALL) in agreement that this quagmire is not something from which we can extricate ourselves from quickly. I tend to think that the natural sequence of events of the chaos theory must be played out here.

All empires fall. The last time I checked, the Roman Empire was gone, as was the Ottoman Empire. I do believe the sun set on the British Empire some time ago; I don't believe Britannia has ruled the waves for decades.

Anybody with a mathematical bent, who has had the unmitigated privilege of performing a regression analysis might want to provide an extrapolation.

Oh what a tangled web we weave...

[ Post Comment ]

 
Comment #68 posted by dddd on September 16, 2001 at 07:09:43 PT
Dick Cheney
..Meet the Press......on right now....pacific coast........absurd...dddd

[ Post Comment ]
 
Comment #67 posted by Silent_Observer on September 16, 2001 at 07:00:41 PT
now you can't shut me up....
I have to admit to being nauseated watching hitherto adult commentators like Fred Barnes and Morton Kondracke get Biblical, and put ourselves on the side of God and everybody else on the side of Satan.

At least Fred Barnes looked like he believed it, but Mort smirked enough to let you know he was playing along.

On another note, I watched Peter Jennings as he moderated a talk show with schoolchildren - the audience included a gentleman of the cloth. When one of kids asked why we were singled out for the attack, the priest rambled on in some ridiculously theological manner about Satan having the ability to speak the language of God etc etc. Right after that, another student (I'd put her age at no more than 8) volunteered a response to the question that was amazingly lucid and reasoned in its thinking - pointing out that not only were we NOT singled out (since the rest of the world has been seeing terrorism on a daily basis), but that our involvement in the domestic affairs of others, combined with the high profile we project, served to make us natural targets for terrorism.

However, the unkindest cut of all was in the manner in which her response was marginalized in favor of the overtly emotional, teary-eyed comments coming from everybody else.

Not only was I completely impressed by this terribly intelligent young lady, but I was also deeply saddened to see how divorced organized religion has become from the principles that it purports to espouse.

As Dr. Russo indicated, it is becoming increasingly difficult to distinguish the rhetoric of the Taliban from that of the Religious Right in this country.

[ Post Comment ]

 
Comment #66 posted by Lehder on September 16, 2001 at 06:59:27 PT
count me in
"I'll give everyone a check for $10.000.00,,,,,"
okay, dddd, bring on the catshit!!

see how it works?
--------
also, it's spelled 'tiny', and the word is 'alternative', not alternate. without an editor, i really ought to slow down. but i still say our situation is chaotic and unpredictable....and given our leadership, gloomy.


[ Post Comment ]

 
Comment #65 posted by dddd on September 16, 2001 at 06:50:55 PT
I hope you're right Silent_Observer
"......but I suspect that the truth will [win?] out, and in some perverse way, this may well prove to be the unraveling of the Republicrat Rule.".....that would be wonderful,,,I wish I could get in to actually convicing myself,,that somehow,things will become better ,,
,but as you may know,,,,I must admit..
I have this kindof sick leaning toward doom and mayhem,,police state,,terror,,incarceration,,oppression,,,bleak futures,,death..

The undoing of the republicrat empire would be delightful,,,but I
kinda see that in the same way I would toy with hopes of winning
millions in the lottery.....but if I do win the lotto,,I'll rent out a
conference center at a discrete location in Beaverhead County,Montana,,,
and I'll invite everyone here to come and meet,,,and I'll give everyone
a check for $10.000.00,,,,,and at the end of the evening,,I will eat
that piece of genuine catshit,,for all to see!...That's my version of a
positive outlook..

...seriously though,,,,I agree with your wise summary Silent_Observer,
and I like it when you break your silence.

...by the way,,,,It is somewhat possible,,or perhaps quite likely that I
have gone overboard with this catshit material,,,not to mention other
tasteless stuff,,,I think the 9/11 disaster has caused my to get even more
zany,,,,please accept my apologies if I disgusted,or offended anyone
with my twisted ramblings...I get this sortof embarassed feeling sometimes,
,,about how I blab and shoot my mouth off here.......oh well....here's a tip for
anyone who has found me annoying or excessive,,simply think of me as
a kind of "village idiot" buffoon


Keep on Keepin' on Silent_Observer

cheers

dddd

[ Post Comment ]

 
Comment #64 posted by Lehder on September 16, 2001 at 06:50:22 PT
chaos
To put my theory into basic terms,,,I think it is very likely that the mid-east countries who are now agreeing to join in with this absurd war on a thing called terrorism,,are actually inviting the western fools into the viper pit for the mother of all slaughters. --dddd

What are the odds of sustained [international] support? I say, very little.... I suspect that the truth will out, and in some perverse way, this may well prove to be the unraveling of the Republicrat Rule. --Silent O

as for our own government's credibility, ask yourself
this...what is the quickest way for a president to get the
people in his corner?...have a popular war against an evil
enemy...i'm not saying the last thought is a likely scenario...the risk of discovery is far too great...but if he thought it would work...
--lookinside

once more i agree with those with whom i often agree with and i thank them for extending my own thoughts and for being here at all; i would not wish to be alone in these ideas for one minute.

lookinside's comments are similar to some of mine titled "this is war" posted on another article. but more accurately, i would say "this is chaos." chaos, mathematically, is that circumstance in which a physical system has the property that it can quickly evolve to widely divergent final states when subjected to extremely tiney perturbations in its current state, like a man teetering on a precipice and circling his arms to stay balanced - soon he will either fall or stand and the slightest nudge would decide his fate. when such circumstances prevail in the political situation, and on a global scale, then certainly the wisest and most circumspect leadership is required. Unfortunately, I see no discussion of possibilities, no consideration of alternative policies or what their outcomes might be. Americans have been conditioned to condemn, not to consider, alternate plans. Mere discussion of alternate plans in order to understand and analyze their potentials, are is in this country immediately condemned as advocacy of those possibilities and so no discussion or true understanding of our situation is possible. We are being shoved, not nudged, over the edge.


[ Post Comment ]

 
Comment #63 posted by Silent_Observer on September 16, 2001 at 06:44:37 PT
How far...
will we take the rhetoric of wiping out terrorism?

Will we now start bombing Ireland? Or does creating a "political arm" (Sinn Fein) somehow legitimize a terrorist group (IRA)?



[ Post Comment ]

 
Comment #62 posted by theropinfool on September 16, 2001 at 05:59:43 PT
A valuable history lesson
In 732 A.D. Charles Martel (CHARLES THE HAMMER) attacked the Spanish Muslims at Tours, France
He personally slew the leader, Abd-er-Rahman. The following morning, the Moors broke camp and went home.
It was the decisive battle that determined if the continent of Europe would be Christian or Muslim.

Charles Martel personally put the 't' in terror.


Peace and understanding will be here after we stop living in a 'Fool's Paradise'.


[ Post Comment ]

 
Comment #61 posted by Silent_Observer on September 16, 2001 at 05:53:49 PT
dddd, kapt et al..
Though quieter than before the "incident", I have been reading and thoroughly enjoying your posts.

I do believe, though, I need to vent a little myself. So, I beg your indulgence just a little.

My own sense is that it is very difficult to predict how all this is going to turn out. On the one hand, I can't but help detect a sense of guilt on the faces of the Republicrats on TV. They know as well as we do on this board, why all this happened. They know that you don't continually go poking into a beehive and not expect to get stung once in a while.

Among others, one thing I have been wondering about is the definition of this act as "cowardly", or "heinous". Heinous , yes...but is it any less heinous than Clinton's bombing of
Sudan? Besides, if I'm not mistaken, the death toll there was an order of magnitude higher, was it not? Presumably, Sudanese lives are not worth much. But I'd hardly say that the terrorists were cowardly - when was the last time a coward sat at the controls of a 757 and headed straight for a building?

The other issu; I must admit to being somewhat confounded by the our geopolitical alignment - even now.

As you sweep your eyes across eastward, look at South Asia; Pakistan (a military dictator), Afghanistan (not exactly an exemplar of democracy), China (the last bastion of totalitarian Communism) and India (a democracy, albeit a poor one). Of the four mentioned, who do we court actively and publicly? China and Pakistan. Who do we rebuke publicly? India. The logic of this astounds me.

As dddd very correctly pointed out, does anybody really think that Pakistan is going to help? As one poster suggested earlier, Pakistan has been using these very terrorists in Kashmir for several years now. Does anybody really think Saudi Arabia is going to help? Especially in a protracted situation? Its one thing for a few weeks during the Gulf War; and even there, one major bone of contention was the prolonged stay in the "Holy Land" by our forces. What are the odds of sustained support? I say, very little.

I honestly believe it is counter-productive for us to keep re-iterating that it is finally time to do something about terrorism because America has been hit. I suspect this rhetoric is going to be deeply offensive to many countries who will not fail to see the continuing "arrogance" of the American self-image. Yes, this act was horrendous, but lets face it - Israel lives with this every day.

Why should the WTC incident be more important to Israel than its own daily suicide bombing attacks?

For the time being, my thoughts basically lean towards the skeptical. In all honesty, I doubt very much that the appetite for war will last more than six months - and not due to any lack of patriotism on the part of any American citizen. None of us wants to see our country get shattered - but I suspect that the truth will out, and in some perverse way, this may well prove to be the unraveling of the Republicrat Rule.

But....as they say....I could be wrong.



[ Post Comment ]

 
Comment #60 posted by dddd on September 16, 2001 at 04:00:37 PT
yet another attempt to alarm and amuse...
...after re-reading my previous ranting of dead serious sillyness,,
,,I stumbled across yet another thing that I want to share with
anyone who still wastes their time trying to find a special treat by
slogging through my excessively embellished yakking.

So.....here's what we got here,,,,this new War on Terrorism crazyness,
is going to produce a situation that we are all familiar with,,yet on a global
scale!.....yup.....get ready for the new "global" way of looking at events that
once only occurred here in Amerika.....

,,,,well,,,I'm sure that most people have
seen the spectacles here in the US,that are known as "hostage situations",
and "standoffs",,,and of course,,my favorite local entertainment,,,,
"Vehicle Pursuits",,,,(now that's entertainment!).....
..well prepare yourselves for the new global version of these events.
They will be carried out by the World Police,,and,,of course the new
NATO-SWAT deployments...The "standoffs",,and "pursuits" will be
much more brief,,(depending on the hostage,,or if you have a nuclear
bomb in your trunk),,,but I think the world law enforcement events of
the near future,will be very reminiscent of the US drug war model....

..............May JAH be with us All.......


d
d
d
d


[ Post Comment ]

 
Comment #59 posted by dddd on September 16, 2001 at 03:16:50 PT
I admit it,,I just cant shut up...
....so if you want to wade through more of my cheap,verbose
babbling,,,,then read on,as I wander miles from the topic,with
my special recipe for the usual confused stew,,prepared with
ingredients of questionable origin.

Here's my new crackpot theory.....If you've been following the
news,you have heard the latest "stories",,that say Pakistan has
agreed to full acceptance of a list of items requested by the Bush
Warpig empire revenge monster......and now,,it appears that perhaps
Iran may be willing to cooperate....OK,,,,here's the thing.....Consider
the following;
*)_Pakistan had no choice,,does anyone think that the Pakastani government would not at least claim they are willing to cooperate?

*)Although I would almost trust the Pakastani government more than the US,,,,these people are not going to join up with the US,in the careless slaughter of "terrorists",in the region.

...To put my theory into basic terms,,,I think it is very likely that the mid-east countries who are now agreeing to join in with this absurd war on a thing called terrorism,,are actually inviting the western fools into the viper pit for the mother of all slaughters...How else could any third world country fight against the brutal death hardware that this new coalition of law enforcement has at its disposal??....The people in Pakistan and Iran aren't going to join in on some quest against one of their own distant brothers!I'll bet you even in Saudi Arabia,there were alot of concealed grins upon seeing the monster movie footage of destruction in NYC......I'm thinking that we are like the stupid,rich kid,bully,in a sort of a global schoolhouse,attended by all nations...........We are the big,rich, popular,dominant kid,who is blindly convinced that everyone will respect his power and wealth,,because if they dont,,he will kill them,or put them in jail...and the UK,and other western european countries,Isreal,NATO,,are like the guys who are the bullys' buddies,the ass-kissin kids who keep in good with the bully,,and come along to back him up when he goes out and kicks some poor rebels ass............OK,,,you get the idea,,,,so after years of getting beat up by the bully,again and again,,,you take a moment to look in the mirror ,,and you take note of your disfigured face,and missing teeth,and you finally realize,that this bully,and all his gang of thugs,,is way too big,and powerful to challenge.You finally realize that it's never a fair fight,,man to man,,one on one,would be different,,,but trying to race a dragster,with a 68 Dodge Duster with expired tags,just hasnt worked out that well....you take another look into the mirror,,you adjust your nose,,,your face has been pummelled so many times,that your nose reminds you of a tiny bean-bag chair,,,,you realize that it's time to try something else to get back at the cocky,arrogant,brutal bully.....
..So,,,the new plan,,is to pretend to submit to the bully...he is wanting to beat up your cousin,who he claims is responsible for death of his friends...you realize that if you dont cooperate with the bully,,he will kick your ass again,,and your nose will no longer be a bean-bag chair,,,it will be more like Silly Putty,,or Play Dough,,but if you go along with the bully,and rat out your cousin,,providing assistance to the bullys plan to kick your cousins ass once and for all,,,then how could you live with yourself?.....So after a few hours of playing with your nose,convincing yourself that it looks;"Sammy Davis Junior-ish",,,you set up a conference call from your apartment in Islamabad,,to your cousin in Kabul,and your uncle in Tehran,,and you discuss your dilema,,and tell them of your idea,,,since there is no way to stop the bully from going after your cousin,,,then why not pretend to join up with the bully,,,tell him that it's OK for him to come on over to your neighborhood,where you will help him find your cousin.................

Anyway,,,,to wrap this up,,,,does anyone really believe that countries like Pakistan and Iran are seriously going to join in with the US to try and carpet bomb,and cruise missile "terrorism" out of exsistance?? ,,,,,,and one more question,,,,is there anyone out there,,who actually believes that "terrorism",can be stopped by law enforcement/military actions????

What we have here,,is the new global version of the War on Drugs,,,,but the new label is The War on terrorism,,,and what the WoDs has been to the US,,,The War on Terrorism will be to the WORLD!!!

This is absolute,utter insanity my friends!!! Throughout history,,there have been many events and situations that caused people to suggest that 'the end is near',,,,,but nothing that compares to the global scale of the present..........If there was ever a time that seemed right for the Apocolypse,,
,I'm thinkin' this is the time.......

What can we do?.............just keep on keepin' on.........dddd


[ Post Comment ]

 
Comment #58 posted by freedom fighter on September 15, 2001 at 22:59:16 PT
Lookinside
thanks...

Here is what my son had to say about this..

I asked him @ the first time about how he feels about this whole thing..

He stated, "I am afraid for my friend, Caleb who just join the army."

I have no idea what is like to run deep in the mountains fighting a war that has no enemy. It is worst than the Vietnam.. Espeically, when we are our own worst enemy.

Lookinside, your dad is one smart man.

I am not going to play the cards betting my son's life for some foolish politican's view of a War in Warshington DC. Bin Landen is not worth a spit for our sons's life.

Peace on earth is all I ask for..

\/
ff


[ Post Comment ]

 
Comment #57 posted by New Mexican on September 15, 2001 at 22:54:42 PT
'Fixin to die Rag' Revised
Get out your peace signs folks, cause you know its' gonna get worse if we don't take advantage of our 'free speech zones' to stop the madness before its' too late.

Well its one two three
what are we fightin' for...
next stop Osama Bin Laden...
well is five six seven
open up the 'pearly gates'
well I ain't got time to wonder why?
Whopeee! We're all gonna die!

-Country Joe and the Fish

Remember the 'De-escalation of the Viet Nam War?'
It took 50,000 American lives alone before it stopped.(And became the war on drugs in a bad disguise).
The military dictatorship shrub wanted is here, remember his first comments upon being selected: 'Things would be alot easier if I were a dictator! Really. Cheney is the Prez and shrub the schoolboy. This will continue for a long time folks, and it looks like the war on drugs could be over soon,(or stepped up?) conviniently replaced with a global corporate/media-assisted war on the sovereignity of any and all nations, their citizens and their environment, wages, health care, freedoms and voting powers. The new world order is here, so read this related item from Native Prophecy and you decide which path you take.
http://www.indymedia.org/front.php3?article_id=64185&group=webcast




[ Post Comment ]

 
Comment #56 posted by FoM on September 15, 2001 at 22:37:05 PT
freedom fighter
Maybe I'm wrong but if he is your only child and if a draft is but back on he will not be the first to go. That is the way it was in Vietnam I'm almost positive. I got married so my boyfriend that became my husband wouldn't have to go except to the Reserves which was 6 months and some weekends and he went away in the summer for a few weeks too and that was all. I was only 17 and he was 18. The marriage didn't last but 7 years. I had a wonderful son though so it was worth it. I understand and I'll let you know if I see anything.

[ Post Comment ]
 
Comment #55 posted by freedom fighter on September 15, 2001 at 22:22:14 PT
I do depend on you FoM
let me know ASAP if there is such a thing like draftee news!! I won't be surprise if it happens. I only have one kid and that is my son. I love that kid very much. My kid told me that several of his classmates are ready to fight a dirty war. My kid says he will not do that.. He tries to point out dirty business in this whole thing. But man, he is only one kid I got. First order of my business, I am gonna ship him out to Canada if that should happen.

Thanks my friend.. I do depend on your news..

Peace be with you and your family
\/
ff


[ Post Comment ]

 
Comment #54 posted by lookinside on September 15, 2001 at 22:09:32 PT:

freedom fighter...
when i was 15 years old, my dad talked to me about viet
nam...he suggested that the war was a mistake and that if
when i turned 18, i moved to canada, he would not object...

he had seen war...he was in the first wave (1st marines) to
land at guadacanal...he saw the difference...i'm glad you do
too...(my son is 15)


[ Post Comment ]

 
Comment #53 posted by FoM on September 15, 2001 at 22:03:03 PT
freedom fighter
You're welcome. You're doing a good job getting the word out and I understand the fear you have for your son. Let's hope they don't bring back the draft. They might not need to. Let's hope they don't.

PS: Sorry about no news but there really isn't any. I'll check one more time and then in the morning.

[ Post Comment ]

 
Comment #52 posted by lookinside on September 15, 2001 at 22:01:05 PT:

dddd...
a few things..

first of all i believe in "innocent until proven guilty..."

if this is a war, torture is against the geneva
convention...but if he's tried in our courts, i'm sure a
willing doctor will find that bin laden has life threatening
infections in all his extremities as well as his tongue...

i'm sure you read my post a few days ago about the
possibility that tim mcveigh's pals might have done this...

osama bin laden has already bragged of other terrorist acts
that would make him eligible for any kind of punishment the
mind of man can conceive...

as for our own government's credibility, ask yourself
this...what is the quickest way for a president to get the
people in his corner?...have a popular war against an evil
enemy...

i'm not saying the last thought is a likely scenario...the
risk of discovery is far too great...but if he thought it
would work...

all we really know about who did this is what the government
is willing to tell us...i'm not likely to believe ANYTHING
that the shrub's administration says, without other
corroberation...they have their own agenda and it isn't that
of the american people...

anybody thought about possible events in columbia the last
few days?

don't assume that i would condone unconstitutional behavior
by our government with regards to bin laden...but my earlier
post doesn't come under "cruel and unusual" if he did in
fact precipitate the attacks...


[ Post Comment ]

 
Comment #51 posted by freedom fighter on September 15, 2001 at 21:34:39 PT
FoM thanks for the link
Back in the Revolutionary War, we did exactly the same thing to the British. Only new(not exactly new) twist to it is the religion aspect of the "war".

Three things that men should not fight about..
Politics
Women
Religions

It is pretty simple for me. I discussed with my 17 yr old boy and he agreed that he will not go to a war that make no sense. I told him that I would support him if he hits the road to Canada. I want him out of this insanity. I will not support this anger.

Thanks Mari for this quote: "Anger is a wind which blows out the lamp of the mind"

I went to a social gathering today, had an interesting discussion with folks about the WTC. Most of them did not know that it was the America governement who gave 132 millions dollars to Afghans that have the worst human abuses in the world while they were haboring bin laden.

At first, they were like pissed that I said it was our fault when it were our tax money that foot the bill. I had to point it out that it were our money.
It was like a light suddenly open their minds. One guy said," Man, you do have a point there."

There is a story why about why no army in the world would want to use any deaf man to fight a dirty war was because of what happened during Nazi time. The Nazi tried to put a deaf man in front line of a battle that the nazi lost. The reason the nazis lost that battle was because that deaf man simply put his hands up in the air when the battle began. Too many bullets flying about and he just simply drop his gun and put his hands up in the air. In my book, that man is pretty smart dude.

Anyway, I love my country but I will not support any more anger. I may be a deaf man but hey, I am sure very tired of reading(listening) to so much anger.

Please I beg you, America, give Peace a chance.

ff



[ Post Comment ]

 
Comment #50 posted by dddd on September 15, 2001 at 20:59:53 PT
lookinside
...beware of rushing to judgement,and assuming bin Laden
is responsible,,,,,,,,you would not feel too good,if about
the time you wire tearing his tongue out with a pair of Vise-Grips,,
news came in that it was Saddam Heusin who was responsible,not
bin Laden!.........Then what would you say to the dismembered,
barely alive ,bin Laden??????..."sorry man,,I thought you did it,,,,here's your tongue back."


dddd


[ Post Comment ]

 
Comment #49 posted by lookinside on September 15, 2001 at 19:30:59 PT:

death is too good for...
bin Ladin...

a few years ago, i learned to hate an individual with all my
heart and soul...fortunately the police found him first...in
the period they kept him, i learned to put his fate and
punishment in god's hands..

but during the interim i dreamed up a few "just" punishments...

bin Laden's fate:

amputation of bin Laden's arms and legs at the elbows and
knees..removal of his tongue...life sentence to a well lit
featureless room with headphones and a recording of the U.S.
national anthem just a little too loud, over and over and
over again...for life...


[ Post Comment ]

 
Comment #48 posted by FoM on September 15, 2001 at 17:31:52 PT
Holy Warriors Escalate an Old War on a New Front
Here is what I think is an interesting article. Drug related issues were not mentioned so I didn't feel I should post it on C News but I made a page so you all could read it.

Holy Warriors Escalate an Old War on a New Front
http://www.freedomtoexhale.com/hw.htm


[ Post Comment ]

 
Comment #47 posted by The Offspring on September 15, 2001 at 16:53:17 PT
An eye for an eye?
I heard an interesting comment on CNN today "An eye for an eye makes the World go blind". The U.S. cannot and should not attack and kill innocent people. Whatever happened to World Peace. It looks like the Hippie movement will have to start up again.


[ Post Comment ]
 
Comment #46 posted by mayan on September 15, 2001 at 16:40:24 PT
Why?
We are certainly being conditioned by the corporate media to brace for an inevitable war. But as one poster asked, "war against whom?" How many innocents will have to die? Will we be any better than the terrorists?

We must ask ourselves WHY we were attacked. Could it be that our foreign policies of intimidation & coercion have finally come back to bite us in the ass?

Don't get me wrong, I am a patriot in the truest sense, but in all honesty I am not surprised by the attacks. I am only surprised that something like this hadn't happened sooner.

As long as Americans support a greedy government that is hell bent on pursuing the earth's resources & dominating the world, we will see more acts of terror in the future.

Who said, "I love my country, but I fear my government"? They must have been an American.



[ Post Comment ]

 
Comment #45 posted by FoM on September 15, 2001 at 16:30:33 PT
Poisoned
I just realised I didn't answer your question about freight. My husband hauls steel. The amount of orders for steel have dropped. Drivers are deadheading home more often then before. I hope this answers your question about freight.

[ Post Comment ]
 
Comment #44 posted by FoM on September 15, 2001 at 14:42:42 PT
Lehder and all
I guess because I spent a lot of time studying prophecy this doesn't surprise me at all. Most religions, Christian or others, seem to believe the same thing. When we left the east coast back in the 70s we wanted to live far from a populated area because we both grew up in the country and loved it and because we felt safer. We know a Doctor who also moved out here because he believed the east coast wasn't the safe place to be.

[ Post Comment ]
 
Comment #43 posted by Lehder on September 15, 2001 at 14:33:18 PT
i know
slashdot is a bizarre board, especially wrt the "graders" sense of humor. i've never been even amused by anything she calls "funny", interested in anything called "interesting".

The calling up of the national guard is also a little confusing to say the least. their mission has not been clearly justified to me. I've read that their job is to "keep alert". Alert to what? Guys with razor blades? I'm very very suspicious. And Bush himself has said this is not a short term affair. You know there are Muslim cells in the Philippines, there are the violent Basques in the heart of Europe, the Extraditables may make a comeback - so many terror orgainzations and Bush says he's going to eradicate them. Eradicate? Like we've eradicated drugs? To me this means institutionalize a condition of permanent war against terrorism and permanent near-martial law. I wonder if we'll be able to still post comments a year or even a few months from now. Maybe they will all have to be graded before they can be posted.

I'm really starting to recoil from the possibilities that I think of under the circumstances. I dislike what comes to mind and no longer pursue thoughts to their end.

[ Post Comment ]

 
Comment #42 posted by FoM on September 15, 2001 at 14:19:28 PT
Lehder
I never thought you wanted grades I was responding to how bad of any idea it was. My comment surely wasn't directed at you or anyone. Just my feelings.

[ Post Comment ]
 
Comment #41 posted by Lehder on September 15, 2001 at 14:13:09 PT
"thinking about the unthinkable"
(I stole that title from a book by Herman Kahn, published many years ago during the era and when I was of an age to be frightened by nuclear war, story of my youth: duck and cover)

Lately I have been having lots of unthinkable thoughts. I'm not claiming they're true, but We all like to consider possibilities:

--the Pennsylvania plane was shot down by a u.s. fighter. it was about 250 miles from D.C. the u.s. military will not admit this.

--the whole attack was possible not just because the g was lax or deficient or distracted, but was in fact allowed so that a military government could be installed.

--bin Laden, months ago, bought a copule of a-bombs from Iraq or Iran who got them from Russia. he had the colombians stuff them into a 40-gallon oil drum stenciled with big red letters COCAINE making it easy to smuggle thru the border and now they're in place waiting. really, the plane attack took a long time to plan, and it's not the only thing that was on his mind.

sorry, FoM, I'm sure you understood my initial comment.

I think that maybe Bush, enjoying a lot of latitude at the moment, is going to overstep himself, display his profound stupidity, and lose a lot of the support he now enjoys. Our country would get a real break, and dddd too, if the TV news people finally just found the propaganda too much even for them and started demanding answers and considering possibilities.

Bush has a dazzling collection of missiles and airplanes, but when I look at bin Laden's eyes, I see a very great intelligence there. I'm expecting more trouble. Our leaders are not outgunned but they're certainly outmanned, and genuine public discourse may yet ensue.

[ Post Comment ]

 
Comment #40 posted by Doug on September 15, 2001 at 14:07:04 PT
Watching TV is Dangerous to You Health
It was noted during the Gulf War that the more TV you watched (about the war) the less knowledge you had about the war. I've talked to several friends who are mainlining television coverage of the event, they try to walk away but they cannot. There has even been an article in the Washington Post about the phenomena of tv addiction. And yes, the images are truly compelling. But I've also noticed that these same friends are living in extreme fear, and having trouble sleeping. I believe that the constant input of these images and stories is causing them, and many others, to be more fearful of life that they should be.

And while I have heard of some good reportage on the television, showing people with different ideas than the standard conventional wisdom, every time I've watched, it has been about increasing the War fever, and how there is a new fashion trend to wear red, white, and blue. There is emphasis that there is no dissent, that we all stand together. Of course, that depends on what we are standing together for, and if that is a blank check for the government to do whatever it wants to whomever it wants, then, as we have seen from these CNews stories, people are not together on that.

So turn off your television for awhile and go outside. It will do wonders for your mental health.


[ Post Comment ]

 
Comment #39 posted by Poisoned1520Days on September 15, 2001 at 13:54:40 PT
Thanks FoM
Hi FoM. Thanks for the explanation.
This is such a great site. I really
like the noncommercial part too.


[ Post Comment ]
 
Comment #38 posted by Lehder on September 15, 2001 at 13:50:48 PT
huh?
well, FoM that's exactly what I was saying. did you think I was asking for grades? jeepers. 'some people just need to be told' refers to the posters at slashdot, most of whom would become sliced mutton were they to show up around here.
PAZ
by the way, I made a comment on yahoo financial page expressing some ideas similar to those in this article - it got deleted. thousands of idiotic and profane jingoist sentiments are tolerated there all the time, but mine got not just insulted, but deleted.
i guess the grade was 0 - deleted.


[ Post Comment ]
 
Comment #37 posted by FoM on September 15, 2001 at 13:40:09 PT
Lehder
Graded? This isn't school! Why would people do that? Who died and made anyone smart enough to grade anyone else. That's not the Internet. Same thing with that karma thing some places use. What a waste and it can only cause people to get mad.

[ Post Comment ]
 
Comment #36 posted by Lehder on September 15, 2001 at 13:32:13 PT
Harry Browne on plane attacks
http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=21572&threshold=1&commentsort=0&mode=thread&cid=2286466


aside: the slashdot site sometimes has interesting articles and, in my opinion, consistently dumb comments. The comments ,as you see if you go there, get graded! I can just imagine how the independent minds here at cnews would respond to FoM attempting to grade us: 1-dumb, 2-funny, 4-interesting. some people just need to be told.


[ Post Comment ]

 
Comment #35 posted by FoM on September 15, 2001 at 13:29:40 PT
Silent_Observer
Thanks for telling us you're still here. I'm glad that people feel they can come in here and vent their feelings during this time. As far as news it really has almost stopped and I understand why but we can still talk. None of us really know how we feel because a lot of this is out of our hands. I'm sure they will bomb and the Taliban will retaliate so it's nice to have a place to gather if any of you want to talk about it.

[ Post Comment ]
 
Comment #34 posted by Silent_Observer on September 15, 2001 at 13:14:46 PT
Just want to say...
I'm still here, reading.

Thanks for the great commentary so far.

[ Post Comment ]

 
Comment #33 posted by kaptinemo on September 15, 2001 at 12:44:08 PT:

Oh, Jeez, now you gone and done it!
LOL

I've been called a SOB plenty of times in my life. Now I can say "No, I'm not! He is!"

[ Post Comment ]

 
Comment #32 posted by xxdr_zombiexx on September 15, 2001 at 12:00:29 PT:

Punishing Bin Laden
The best thing that could happen right now is for the Taliban to turn bin Laden over, sparing themselves a needless bombing.

Bin Laden could live out his days In a very tackily decorated prison cell, listening to the scorpions "rock you like a hurricane"....over and over....for the rest of his natural life.

[ Post Comment ]

 
Comment #31 posted by FoM on September 15, 2001 at 11:57:36 PT
Poisonedxyz I'll try to answer
I'll try to tell you why I do this site. Why I started searching was because of what is on this link. How Cannabis News happened is it was a creation of Ron Bennett from http://www.cannabis.com/ Ron designed this format and opened it up to doing news. I think about 10 or more people could have posted at first but nobody did so then Ron gave me Cannabis News. He has paid for it and renewed it for me. I don't know how to do things like that and then because of reasons about Copyright Laws ( you can't do news and have any pay banners on your web site) Mapinc. became Cannabis News supporter. Matt Elrod has done some remarkable upgrades to the site. I've had two great web masters designing it and we all benefit from their expertise. So Cannabis News was just an evolution of a small desire to do something and now here we are!

http://www.drugsense.org/dsw/1999/ds99.n126.html#sec4

[ Post Comment ]

 
Comment #30 posted by Poisonedxyz on September 15, 2001 at 11:34:15 PT
FoM lives in a cool place?
" I think we will be ok because we have reduced our debt to
a relatively low level. The freight has almost ground toa
stop. We can heat with wood and we have two deep water
wells on our property."

Sounds like you live in a nice
place FoM. Why is freight slow?
Can you tell us about it and
why you do this site?


[ Post Comment ]

 
Comment #29 posted by FoM on September 15, 2001 at 09:49:50 PT
Well Thank You Kapt!
Thanks Kapt and you are so good at saying things so well. My husband enjoys reading your comments and all the others. Maybe soon he will be able to stay on line a little more now that we have two working computers and a few scraps too. LOL!

PS: Since we named our Rottie, Kaptin your name is in our house a lot. Yelling hey Kaptin get back here you dog you! LOL!

[ Post Comment ]

 
Comment #28 posted by FoM on September 15, 2001 at 09:45:43 PT
Patriotism
I guess I want to take a minute and explain why I have been feeling patriotic. I am very proud of the American people. They have shown true compassion in this tragic event. The government isn't what I feel patriotic about just the ones that make us a great Nation. The PEOPLE. God Bless America!

[ Post Comment ]
 
Comment #27 posted by kaptinemo on September 15, 2001 at 09:42:57 PT:

Thanks, FoM
Figures you'd have it; it takes a lot to get past you!

[ Post Comment ]
 
Comment #26 posted by New Mexican on September 15, 2001 at 09:42:44 PT
I call upon bush and the administration to resign!
As this is a monumental failure of our government and it's bloated security agencies who are useless when called upon to protect our borders. While others say America is unified, I say were not, and if bush resigned, that would bring the world together and we truly would be unified, not as Americans, but as members of the human race. Thanks for the forum!

[ Post Comment ]
 
Comment #25 posted by FoM on September 15, 2001 at 09:38:42 PT
Yes Kapt here it is!
Researchers Seek Answers on Medical Marijuana
http://cannabisnews.com/news/thread10648.shtml


[ Post Comment ]
 
Comment #24 posted by New Mexican on September 15, 2001 at 09:32:02 PT
Correction: Pat Robertson, not Robinson
read:http://smirkingchimp.com/article.php?sid=3273&mode=thread&order=0&thold=0
I also suggest tuning our the U.S. media and tune in to Worldlink.com, web or tv as they just showed peace activists' gathered in NY calling for restraint not revenge.


[ Post Comment ]
 
Comment #23 posted by New Mexican on September 15, 2001 at 09:26:51 PT
Keep Bush on TV...the more the better!
America may be easily brainwashed, propagandized, and such, but the more the media/government, keeps shrub on TV, the less faith we will have in this shell of a man with NO soul.
Yes, I looked him in the eye and determined this, as he has done with his determination that Putin has a good soul, a few months back. He makes Clinton look God-like, and I'm no fan of him either. Be Afraid, be very afraid. I would suggest prayer, but this approach has been hijacked by the religious right wing Pentagon propagandists'. By the time this is over, we will all be forced to pray to the Capitalist god of consumerism, patriotism and militarism.
Ask yourself, who benefits? The new world order, corporations, and the military. Cynincal, yes, disgusted, yes, praying, yes...to a compassionate god that exists' within and not without. Listen to Falwell and Robinson rant against gays, women, people of color (most of the world) etc. and you will see this is part of the right wing illuminati/bush corp nightmare scenario to strip America of our civil rights, liberties and constitutional guarantees, and turn the planet into a giant war machine with everyone fighting against the common good, while seeking revenge on misplaced targets of anger. Thanks dddd, Kap, FOM, GCW, JAHn, and all the great libertarian minds that continue to enlighten and give me hope that others see through this patriotic crap ('unity') were being fed by the same media that refuses to cover our genocidal attacks on the people of Columbia and throughout the world in the name of Demo-cracy. I have a knot in my stomach due to the fact that any moment our government is about to make things even worse and retaliate against innocent people to make a point. Do something today to help avert a nuclear catastrophy, as it will be too late tomorrow.


[ Post Comment ]
 
Comment #22 posted by kaptinemo on September 15, 2001 at 09:25:53 PT:

FoM and everybody else, have you seen this?
High Noon for Medical Marijuana
http://dailynews.yahoo.com/h/hsn/20010908/hl/high_noon_for_medical_marijuana_1.html

This is perhaps one of the most balanced articles I've seen on the subject. For example, they correctly note that the US Supreme Court's decision did not overturn Prop215 or any of the other State intitiatives. A rare jem of real journalism. I suggest the curious go there.

[ Post Comment ]

 
Comment #21 posted by FoM on September 15, 2001 at 09:00:40 PT
Thanks kapt
I think we will be ok because we have reduced our debt to a relatively low level. The freight has almost ground to a stop. We can heat with wood and we have two deep water wells on our property. If I lived in a big city I wouldn't have the faintest idea how to prepare. I feel that the Taliban are not barbarians like Bush called them but a people on a mission to destroy what they consider is the great Satan. Barbarians don't have that much determination I think. What actually is a barbarian? Are we barbarians too?

[ Post Comment ]
 
Comment #20 posted by kaptinemo on September 15, 2001 at 08:51:08 PT:

Ooops! My mistake
Try this:

http://www.theepicenter.com/



[ Post Comment ]

 
Comment #19 posted by kaptinemo on September 15, 2001 at 08:49:49 PT:

Fo FoM and all others so concerned...
For people who are genuinely, understandably worried that things may take such a wrong turn, I offer the following:

www.theepicenter.com

on how to prepare for disasters...all kinds of disasters.

[ Post Comment ]

 
Comment #18 posted by FoM on September 15, 2001 at 08:39:13 PT
Question
Since the news is slow I was wondering if anyone wondered what would be a valuable commodity if we go to war and our economy totally collapses?


When Russia was falling apart I saw people buying up Vodka. They asked why people were buying Vodka with what little money they had and they said because it was a guarantee that it would have value. I thought that was interesting.


[ Post Comment ]

 
Comment #17 posted by FoM on September 15, 2001 at 08:32:18 PT
Good Morning Everyone
Well another day with hard to find news. I'll keep looking but I just haven't found anything worth posting except the one article. Here's a link to issues about WTC Bombing.

http://www.newsindex.com/cgi-bin/process.cgi?query=taliban+retribution+attack+afghanistan

[ Post Comment ]

 
Comment #16 posted by dddd on September 15, 2001 at 08:17:06 PT
Wow therapinfool
...you aint messin' around.....one question though,,,Do you
think that we have not served up a hefty amount of
,".. wanton death and destruction",and"..untold human misery ",
on the rest of the world?...We have slaughtered far more people
throughout the world ,,,,,,we put the "t" in terror...no one can
deal out terror better than the US.....we're the best


dddd


[ Post Comment ]

 
Comment #15 posted by theropinfool on September 15, 2001 at 07:50:42 PT
WANTED ALIVE: Osama bin Laden
theropinfool has a good sturdy long rope (hemp) for the culprit Osama bin Laden.

Not to hang him, too good for the worthless whatever he may be. He surely is no God fearing man.
I would string the bastard up by his balls and pour sand up his ass until the rope breaks!

The wanton death and destruction has caused untold human misery on our land. In the very near future, for good reason, others of his ilk will experience the same. We have been duped, and that is all there is to it.

The people running our government have been instrumental in allowing this madman to develop his organization to what it is and, in my opinion, are just as culpaple. I will spare them my wrath. I will depend on the wrath of GOD to handle that unwanted task. I know we deserve better than what we have, and what we have ain't worth having.

I know the military can extricate us from this mess, bloated and possibly corrupt as it may be. The politicians can go home, face their constituents and try to explain their actions. If they dare. We won't be fooled again.

There ain't no fools like the political fools, says....theropinfool



[ Post Comment ]

 
Comment #14 posted by tdm on September 15, 2001 at 07:31:21 PT
dddd's ranting
Please don't stop, dddd. I, for one, enjoy your rantings and ravings. Let's me know I'm not the only one continually horrified by the carefully scripted media manipulation.

[ Post Comment ]
 
Comment #13 posted by Rambler on September 15, 2001 at 07:12:17 PT
m segesta
I see what you mean.The old "keep 'em busy chasing other guys,and they will leave us alone" theory.If only that was the way it worked.The seeming diversion of the law to pursuing terrorists,will not be a good thing for peaceful drug users,quite the contrary.It will allow the cops to search you at any time,and it will be done under the flag of "The War on Terrorism".If you thought the War on Drugs was a nightmare,well the War on Terrorism is like this,if you got the war on drugs all amped up on meth,strung on crack and PCP,then you end up with the War on Terrorism.It will make us long for the good old days when all we had was the War on Drugs.

[ Post Comment ]
 
Comment #12 posted by dddd on September 15, 2001 at 06:57:56 PT
More huge Propaganda from Sam the Sham and..
.the New Pharohs.......Yes,,,it only gets more astonishingly outlandish,,
and remarkably disturbing.....
....I'm havin' a hard time believing the outright shameless conditioning
of the public through network TV.......Probably one reason why I am so
fixated on this,,is because I dont have cable,so all I get is the basic
networks,,with their marathon "news" coverage.......

...I'm Shocked,,again,and again,,with each new twist that the news parrots.
..earlier,on ABC,,they had this thing with a room full of school kids,,4th graders,
and this lady is asking them what they think about the recent events,,,then,as
we might expect,,she ask "what do you think we should do to the terrorists who
did this?".....they showed the kids saying,,we should kill them because it was bad
of thenm to kill us",,and other such carefully assembled and edited snippets.It reminded
me of the 4th grade class that was showcased to our tour group in Moscow,1976.
It was Lenin Elementary school,,and these kids had this rehearsed show for us
westerners,with little songs about how wonderful the Soviet Union was,and how
great Lenin is,,,,and I kid you not,,,there were pictures on the walls,,the type
one might see in sunday school,with Jesus blessing the children,but it was Lenin
in the place of Jesus...
...If I was asked to give a "scary-ness"rating,,,I'd say;
..."I dont do scay-ness ratings."
..then,,I'd say,,,"OK,,,I'll give you one....on the scale of 1 to 10,(1 being not
that scary,,,10 being shitting your pants scary),,I'd say;
..Scaryness of terrorists........3
...Scaryness of new corporate evil empire......9.3
...I cant get over it!...The way the media is now dominated,,,and is involved in
a government sponsored conspiracy to manipulate the public,,,,I think it is
REALLY ALARMING,,,,,,but I will no longer harp on the subject here.I've
already ranted like the village idiot,,or some kind of misguided Paul Revere
cartoon........

cheers

dddd

[ Post Comment ]

 
Comment #11 posted by m segesta on September 15, 2001 at 06:31:06 PT:

Rambler......
I am not talking about actively going after anybody......the sentiment I hypothesize about is more along the lines of "why be upset if others want to go hunt ________ (fill in blank with Arabs, Islamics, Afghans, etc), as then these others -- the bellicose people who invented the DEA, you might call them -- will not be able to hunt US, harmless plant users or growers as they will be preoccupied with chasing foreigners"?

Sort of like, why shed a tear for the ________ (fill in with same term from the blank above) our beelicose factions are pursuing as long they aren't pursuing us?

M

[ Post Comment ]

 
Comment #10 posted by Rambler on September 15, 2001 at 06:10:47 PT
The way I see it m segesta
is that it's bad hoodoo to kill anybody.I dont think that the 'kill or be killed' theory can be applied on a global basis.

[ Post Comment ]
 
Comment #9 posted by m segesta on September 15, 2001 at 05:50:09 PT:

Selfishness and morality and revenge.......
I am being really, unacceptable, egregiously, hideously selfish in thinking, "Hey, better they pursue and hurt and murder some women repressing Taliban towel-heads than that they do the same to innocent U.S. citizens who just like to hoot up some jib, who grow plants?"

I mean, I am assuming they have to keep themselves busy pursuing, torturing, and killing someone (kind of like FoM's theory that they will manufacture a need for war if there is no real need?), but am I being selfish if I felt the sentiments expressed in the quote above, or I am just being a self-preservationist?

NOTE: "Towel-heads" is in a quotation above [and here] for a reason, to wit: it's not my choice of language but a reflection of the angry and prejudiced feelings one gets from the media provided profiles of "American sentiment".

Be well.

M

[ Post Comment ]

 
Comment #8 posted by dddd on September 15, 2001 at 05:35:17 PT
I know whatchya mean Lookinside
...and it's dreadfully likely that when the idiot US warpigs do
take action,,,it will be indiscriminate carpet bombing decimation,,
,,and the news coverage in the US will brought to you by the same
great free press journalism we've seen in Colombia.....Our massive
campaign the War on Terrorism will kill many innocents,and cause
a new jihad......
The TV news keeps harping on the fake theme that our country is
united in the quest for retaliation,,raw crap,,,false "polls" will make
it appear that the public demands action....I'm afraid the nightmare
has just begun,,,,but this nightmare will be the worst kind,,it will be
the kind of nightmare that when you pinch yourself to make sure it's
not a bad dream,,,you realize that you are,,,,,wide awake......dddd


[ Post Comment ]
 
Comment #7 posted by lookinside on September 15, 2001 at 04:30:23 PT:

afghani's???
i'm afraid that bush is asking for a thrashing if he tries
to "punish" the taliban...

a covert operation, carefully planned, to capture the
perpetrators makes alot more sense to me...since our CIA and
FBI are so inept at everything except making stupid
mistakes, maybe they could call on israel to help do the
"dirty work"...they are the best at this, out of necessity...

i've always heard that the afghani's are the toughest
adversaries on this planet...a ground war with them would be
a war of attrition, neverending...

i have little faith in bush to make good decisions...revenge
won't acomplish anything positive...it will just amount to
murder because they won't get those who are really
responsible...


[ Post Comment ]

 
Comment #6 posted by xxdr_zombiexx on September 15, 2001 at 04:05:01 PT
Getting a Grip
We are now getting ahead of the recovery curve - those of us that are not wandering dazed, looking for people almost certainly killed in the attack.

And it is time to re-examine our options, with clearer heads, and our emotions in check.

War on whom, indeed.

I am NOT comfortable with the way we are focusing on striking the Afghans: the afghan people have done NOTHING to us. True, the Taliban may harbour some guy we keep putting pictures of on TV: some guy we allege to have done this or that. I am not certain I can accept everything I hear, especially in time of war: Truth is the first casualty of war.

I am essentially a pacifist: I get a kick from talking tough sometimes, but I honestly don't want to hurt anybody. I can, however, take care of myself and I would not tolerate an assault on my being. The Attack on the US is an attack on me, but I am powerless to do anything about that: it is bigger than me. It does not make me want to simply blow up other people.

The intelligence community is responsible for generating the directions to go in this situation: not emotional politicians hoping to use this event to go pork-barraling and get some early re-election photo-ops and sound-bytes.

If this bin Laden guy IS to blame, the Taliban needs to turn him over. We can set an example militarily or in a civil manner. Given the nature and history of the we are going to engage, CIVILITY might be a very bright idea: for US and them.



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Comment #5 posted by m segesta on September 15, 2001 at 03:21:43 PT:

Robbie, dammit!
Now, after reading the lyrics you posted, I am having flashbacks to when Marvin died, from a bullet fired by his father, because he was "crazy on drugs". Interfamily killings and drugs. That never had to happen, either, if had sane poicies.




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Comment #4 posted by m segesta on September 15, 2001 at 03:18:52 PT:

Exactly.........!
Though this is bit more anti-Republican (and Moore is a Democrat or a Green, and only the latter truly cares about good policy and I detest RepubliCrats), it captures my thoughts about the idocy of a War on ????????????? (fill in blank with name of our opponent in this new "war"). I have always liked Moore, though I have a feeling he thinks if Algore won some different result would have obtained, a feeling I do not agree with since Gore was a drug warrior too.

ZZ-Top Wannabe? I love Michael!

M

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Comment #3 posted by dddd on September 15, 2001 at 02:22:48 PT
Dark Days.....Indeed....
Mari and Robbie......I feel the same...

...TV coverage of todays Federal Prayer Showcase,approached
the point of being like some Maury Povich production of the 700 Club
meets the McGlaughlin Group!...and the Bush visits 'ground zero'
production was absolutely grotesque....all major non-cable network
coverage was very consistantly similar.,,,,,and it is getting even
more blatant and obvious by the hour.....I hate to keep beating
this dead horse,,,but I am really alarmed by the government/media
collusion!.....It's a BIGGIE,,,as far as the overall picture goes!..
..It's not some little minor problem,that is somehow insignificant
when compared to other problems!!It's the Mother Of All Problems.
....It's not a game,,,,it's not something that will work itself out!!
...it's not something that many people will realize,or talk about..

Once again,,,,,if this aint the big deal I keep raving about it being,,,
,as I said before,,,,,
I will eat a piece of fresh catshit!..

dddd

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Comment #2 posted by Robbie on September 14, 2001 at 22:12:14 PT
Dark days befall us

Right on, Mari.

Right on, Mike.

No one will listen. Anger fills them. Rage fills them. Righteousness fills them.

Everyone is wrapped in the flag and the snowball is rolling and building and headed downhill fast.

I must admit to being filled with a certain amount of rage. I must control it.

It's not for the terrorists. It's not for the Taliban. It's for those calling themselves the vanguard of truth and justice and righteousness and moral certainty and the American way. I've got to control it.

Maybe it's time for a cancer stick, because I'm finding it difficult to calm myself.


May god have mercy on us all.


Mother, mother, there's too many of you crying
Brother, brother, brother, there's far too many of you dying
You know we'ver got to find a way
To bring some lovin' here today, hey

Father, father, we don't need to escalate
War is not the answer, for only love can conquer hate
You know we've got to find a way
To bring some lovin' here today



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Comment #1 posted by Mari on September 14, 2001 at 20:36:02 PT
At Last
A voice of calm and reason.I have refrained from comment because, frankly,I feel that the other voices here have covered most of my views.But I had to speak up now, for this man has so eloquently expressed what I have been saying to my family and friends.
While I am deeply sorrowful over the terrible suffering I have seen these last few days I can not help but feel that it is the arrogent and self-serving policies of our govt. that has brought this to pass.
I will not be flying the flag this time.I will be posting a peace sign in my window.Punish,if you can, those directly responsable for this carnage.Do not immitate them by the slaughter of more innocents to satisfy anger.
"Anger is a wind which blows out the lamp of the mind"


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