Finding May Help Cirrhosis Patients |
Posted by FoM on June 30, 2001 at 13:51:25 PT By Randolph E. Schmid, Associated Press Source: Charlotte Observer Researchers have discovered what they believe is the cause of blood pressure problems in people with cirrhosis, potentially a first step in slowing the disease. In people with advanced cirrhosis, blood vessels become dilated, lowering blood pressure and increasing blood flow to the liver and gut. Because of liver scarring, this results in elevated pressure where the vessels meet the liver. That can cause fluid to accumulate in the abdomen and dilated blood vessels to rupture. Both conditions are life-threatening. In tests on animals, the research team, led by Dr. George Kunos of the National Institute of Alcoholism and Alcohol Abuse, found that substances normally present in the body, called endocannabinoids, act on the blood vessel walls to cause dilation. The researchers found elevated levels of the endocannabinoid anandamide associated with low blood pressure. Using a chemical that blocks the action of anandamide, they raised blood pressure and reduced the so-called portal pressure where the blood enters the liver. In addition to finding higher levels of anandamide in the cirrhosis cases, they discovered that the blood vessels of the victims had increased receptors to react to that chemical. The finding may suggest an approach for therapy to assist patients while they await a liver transplant. The findings are reported in the July issue of the journal Nature Medicine. Dr. Bruce Bacon of the St. Louis University School of Medicine, who was not involved in the study, said the finding is "a significant observation." But he cautioned: "Whether that will lead to therapeutic intervention (in people) is yet to be determined." Note: Knowing cause of blood pressure problems could lead to new treatment. Source: Charlotte Observer (NC) Related Articles & Web Site: Nature Medicine Drug Could Block Cannabis High Scientists Find Way To Block Effects of Marijuana Home Comment Email Register Recent Comments Help |
Comment #27 posted by FoM on July 02, 2001 at 12:10:48 PT |
How about this story. My son had a living will and he had a do not resusitate order. He was put on a respiratory even though he had that ordered but he OKed it. We were called and told to come to the hospital as soon as possible because they were going to turn the machine off. Some of the family had to come many miles including us and we were told to be at the hospital at a certain time by the Doctor. Everyone arrived and we waited for the Doctor to turn off the machine and the nurse finally paged him and said he went home because he had friends coming over but go ahead and shut the machine off. That is the way it is and will be and it's wrong. PS: They shut the machine off but he resisted so much that they turned it back o and he came out of it and lived almost 4 more months. [ Post Comment ] |
Comment #26 posted by Lehder on July 02, 2001 at 11:55:22 PT |
sorry to hear of the medical and administrative abuses to which you've been put by the health industry, dddd. these are common experiences nowadays, much my like own and many others i've heard about the last several years. incompetence and greed nearly killed some of my family last year and this too. it stinks. physicians these days are more like corporate executives and big shot administrators than health care "providers". insurance or no, if you are sick in the u.s., well, good luck. you are quite right that the health industry is crooked in the same ways as the drug war industry - a big gravy train, everybody getting something for nothing more than incompetence and abusiveness. i'd go on, but there are more and more articles i see in the popular press about people's nightmare experiences with health care; maybe enough will get mad enough to start demanding some accountability of doctors, if not drug warriors. to the congressman - listen to the nurses, they usually know more - and will tell you more if you ask - than the doctors will. now dick cheney gets good health care. but i expect he'll be out of office for health reasons before long. then bush will get a nazi - a genuine nazi like ashcroft - in his place. now remember that 20 yr hex - how every president since lincoln ( except reagan who was shot near fatally ) - so the story goes, so it must be true - elected in the 20 yr multiples -00 -20 -40 etc winds up dead or unable to finish his term. there was a lot of talk about this hex when kennedy got shot - i was old enough to watch the whole mess and the televised live murder of lee oswald on b&w tv. i figure on bush getting whacked after cheney is out and then we'll have a true nazi for president, someone we never heard of or expected. should be interesting. i also predict that the final destruction of america will come in about 25 years when oriental countries send trillions of lethal artificial insects in vast clouds over the western hemisphere. we will have no defense: our drug-free science will fall behind and our conventional weapons like bombers will be of little use. orientals consider all the races in america, save their own, as inferior and will have no qualms in killing us. our ancestors drank rye whiskey, they smoked lucky strikes with no filters, they drank cokes with coca in them, smoked reefers, slept only with women and won every war they fought. they had good doctors who came to the house. they did not take shit from cops or bureaucrats. the good old days. what happened? i think people just got too polite to complain: make no waves - the secret to success and corporate advancement. as you can tell, i see alot of really big problems in our world; but they ain't gonna get solved with people brainwashed into attributing them all to drugs. dig in,dddd, times are gonna get a lot worse before they get better. at least it's a nice day here. i don't even see any chemtrails today. [ Post Comment ] |
Comment #25 posted by FoM on July 02, 2001 at 08:50:18 PT |
I found something. Here it is! http://www.merck.com/pubs/mmanual/section2/chapter9/9d.htm [ Post Comment ] |
Comment #24 posted by FoM on July 02, 2001 at 08:36:31 PT |
I've been looking for something to post for you but haven't found anything yet. I have a few more places to check and if I find something I'll post it here. Do you have good insurance? If so get a second opinion. We are self employed and the VA is all we have for my husband. Have you been checked for HCV? I think most people should be checked. If a person doesn't have insurance you can donate blood and you will automatically be tested for Hep C. Then it doesn't cost anything. Having health problems is not being a Hypochrondiac. It's reality as we get older. I'm sick today with a bad respiratory infection and feel horrible. I'm glad I am sick though because that means that my husbands illness this time is not from the virus because I got sick. I'm sure I have the virus too but am not concerned at this point. If we want to continue this thread and talk about health issues I sure don't have a problem with doing it. We are a community of like minded people and shouldn't be afraid to say what is on our mind. [ Post Comment ] |
Comment #23 posted by dddd on July 02, 2001 at 07:00:08 PT |
As usual,,,I agree with what you say,,,,but let's not forget,a second,,third,,or more opinion,,nowdays,for the uninsured,is probably gonna cost more than 4 months rent,or mortgage,,, or a fleet of the old beat vehicles like I drive...... and even for the insured,,,miles of red tape would be involved with your "provider",(dont you love that term ;"provider",,as if they were benevolently providing you something),if you wanted to try and get them to pay for a second opinion....we are getting f*#ked,to put it mildly.. ..and if you are one of us 48 million with no health insurance,well ...I forgot to mention in an earlier,rambling post about drug ads on TV,,,,,
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Comment #22 posted by Lehder on July 02, 2001 at 05:52:42 PT |
if i had a 5 cm tumor i would demand that it be removed and not wait months on end to see if it grows. physicians in this country are as corrupt and ignorant as drug warriors. one out of every three deaths in this benighted country results from medical misdiagnosis. one in three people who enter a hospital wind up with somethin they didn't have when they went in. you have to be very aggressive with physicians here, most of them considering themselves deities - as they are taught in our too easy to get into medical schools - and you an ignoramus. it sounds to me, congressman, like you need a second opinion and maybe a third and fourth until you can find a physician who is interested in medicine and not exclusively in money and medical profession politics. if your physician knows what's wrong he may or may not say what it is; if his opinion differs from what the head physician casually surmised without an examination then he may very well keep his diagnosis to himself for fear of stepping on the great one's toes. if you can find a semi-skilled physician who understands cause and effect then you are doing better than most. christ, i hate doctors. if you have health insurance then you are very lucky; 48 million people here do not. get the merck manual and whatever medical books you need in order to understand the illness yourself. you cannot rely on the competence or the intentions of most physicians: like drug warriors, they're in it for the money and to hell with the patient. good luck. [ Post Comment ] |
Comment #21 posted by dddd on July 02, 2001 at 04:55:31 PT |
...but that depends on how you define 'real'.....and I know nothing about this diagnosis of the obscure "Kubbys' disease..... ..and I dont mean to make light of your situation CS,,,but I do have a little bit of good news......I have reminded myself of this many times,and it somehow makes me think thing are better,,,,,,It is somewhat simplistic,,and perhaps idiotic,,but I dont feel so bad when I say to myself;;;"things could be way worse". I stumbled upon this elementary concept,when I lived with my Now I'm not saying this is the "good news",you were looking for CS,
What does this all mean you may ask??...I dont know,,other than to say that ..May JAH Shine on You Always and Forever....dddd [ Post Comment ] |
Comment #20 posted by CongressmanSuet on July 02, 2001 at 02:16:31 PT |
we are discussing here, but I feel a certain need to ask some of the more medically versed posters here a question. And please, Im not a hypochondriac by any means. I have lived with severe COPD[53% function] for some time, and have gotton great relief by using cannabis on a regular basis as an expectorant. I have had a dull pain in my side for about the last 6 months or so, and out of concern did the CAT scan, etc, blood work, and had a biopsy done a few weeks ago. The results? They think I have a pheochromocytosis, adrenal tumor, which would explain my abnormally high blood pressure, and my unresponsiveness to unconventional anti-hypertensive medication. Am I afflicted with "Steve Kubby Disease"? Is this the one and the same. I am having trouble getting any type of real indepth info on the web on this. Does anyone here have any real info as what I am to expect? The tumor measures 5cm, and will have to be re-examined in a few months as to the growth rate. C'mon people, is there any good news? [ Post Comment ] |
Comment #19 posted by FoM on July 01, 2001 at 20:37:40 PT |
Thank You GCW, I think that Hemp Seed Oil could be good. I wish we knew more about how this virus works so we can fight it the best way. If he becomes a candadate for treatment it is a very long treatment with drugs that are very toxic. I think it is between 28 and 40 or more weeks. Right now I am giving him Milk Thistle, Vitamin E and Green Tea. When we know the extent of damage to the liver ( by the time you get diagnosed 60 % of the Liver might have been destroyed) we will know more as to what should be done but really this is a 100 percent lifestyle change type disease. The problem is no one knows what works best. Thanks Again. [ Post Comment ] |
Comment #18 posted by The GCW on July 01, 2001 at 18:07:41 PT |
What about including Hemp seed oil? I was just eating my salad for din din and as usual for going on 3 years I put Hemp seed oil and vinager on it. Look into Hemp seed oil benifits if your not aware of it. One source is Hemp For Health by Chris Conrad. What is missing from our diets that was more prevelent years ago? Hemp seed oil: THe bird used to eat the hemp seeds & we would eat the bird etc.). It has Gamma Linolenic Acid which is something that the body makes but thought not to make enough in people that drink too much, maybe for the liver problems? GLA is implicated for a STRONG immune system. Also consider hempseeds. This stuff gamma linolenic acid is only available in about 5 places on the planet and that includes hemp seed oil and MOTHERS MILK!!! Who do you think put that there? For vegitarians, hemp seed oil seems valuable. The Green Collar Worker [ Post Comment ] |
Comment #17 posted by FoM on July 01, 2001 at 14:41:41 PT |
Thanks jAHn, Your dad must be around 50 I'm guessing. Eating meat is something that we can barely stand. The problem is finding something to eat that you like and is good for you. I wish the VA would do a biopsy but it's the VA and they don't do a biopsy unless you are going down hill really fast. He has another test coming up ( scope of stomach )when they let us know in the mail and it is usually a month after you get the notice. He isn't to see the Doctor until November yet he is sick. He's lost about 10 pounds over the last few weeks and is fighting a bad respiratory infection and driving a semi too. He worries me so. Thanks for sharing the information. [ Post Comment ] |
Comment #16 posted by jAHn on July 01, 2001 at 13:53:30 PT |
...My Dad has the same affliction as your husband, FoM, and it worries me as his 24 yr. old child. He goes for biopsies every few months or so to have his condition checked. I read in HighTimes that the consumption of Ginger Root helps to rid the body of toxins, therefore, helping ease the livers' capacity to do all the cleansing itself. I'm not sure how Posi-Proof this study is, but the reasoning isn't far from home- to me at least. My dad's the SAME way. Doesn't take Aspirin, Alcohol, Pot- any longer, or even Caffeinated Soda. He's one of the Strictest Vegetarians I've ever been gifted of knowing. Him and my step-ma are Pure Vegetarians who eat NO meat what-so-ever because of the Toxic content ((and the Mental Imagery of Scenes of a Slaughterhouse or Mistreated Animals on Farms)). He eats LOTS of fruits and vegetables- EVERY DAY, for the minerals/vitamins/natural healing properties have to be REPLENISHED- day to day to day- Until "The End." The same goes for any Child/Teen/Young Adult/Elder Young who wishes to have Optimum performance of their bodies' nature...a healant! If you keep your body NICE and Clean, ya can Dirty it with Subtle Intoxicants ((Cannabis and Other Herbs)) that may hold Great HEaling properties when used in Conjunction with Appropriate levels of Minerals and Vitamins. AND even after We die, we're good SHIT for the Soil, which is in turn, GREAT FOR THE STATE OF THE CANNABIS!!! Hooray for Fruits, Herbs and Vegetables!!! I love Nature! [ Post Comment ] |
Comment #15 posted by FoM on June 30, 2001 at 22:12:04 PT |
Thank You GCW, I read the article and digestive problems were mentioned. I don't mention this web site ( C News) or anything about Cannabis on the HepC board but one person just said without marijuana he wouldn't be doing very well at all. It's interesting to read something like that on a board that is about a virus not marijuana. People know that it helps. Now we need for our political leaders to get it too. I pity, the I'll call them, the cocaine generation. HepC lives a lot easier for longer times not like HIV that when air hits it dies. So much as snorting coke can give this silent killer to a person. If drugs were legalized and controlled we would help prevent so many communicable disease. Even though my heart is in marijuana reform I know the results of prohibition and the death it could bring due to impure drugs etc. Thanks! [ Post Comment ] |
Comment #14 posted by The GCW on June 30, 2001 at 21:55:35 PT |
*US Army Tests CT-3 http://www.cannabisnews.com/news/thread9766.shtml. Although this is confusing to me also, This story that you posted may be helpful to locate options. [ Post Comment ] |
Comment #13 posted by FoM on June 30, 2001 at 21:24:19 PT |
What you said made sense. My husband was diagnosed with HepC in February and we have been on a roller coaster ride. He does not drink or even take an aspirin. Since this is a pubic forum it's hard to be totally honest but if people with advanced Liver disease can't use Cannabis then I don't know what they could take that would be less toxic that can bring relief during the sick times. I am visiting a HepC Board when I'm not doing the news and am learning alot from the people there. It sure seems that HCV is becoming way to prevelant. We have a friend who just received a liver transplant. He was a heavy drinkier and it caught up to him before he knew it. Alcohol is the worst thing to use if you have HepC. [ Post Comment ] |
Comment #12 posted by The GCW on June 30, 2001 at 21:13:44 PT |
the St. Louis University School of Medicine, I beleive is where in app. 1985 cannabinoid receptor sites were discovered in the Brain. St. Louis, Missery is also the home of the Monsanto company (mentioned in one of the above articles. Which is actually in Creve Coeur, Missery. For what it is worth, Chris Conrad went to seminary school in Chesterfield, which is the emediate neighbor to Creve Coeur. It was nice to read that a bunch of people were protesting that M. company the other day over the poisoning of Columbia and surrounding South American neighbors. If we are asked to not use profanities, does that include the M. word? [ Post Comment ] |
Comment #11 posted by maryL on June 30, 2001 at 20:47:50 PT:
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To understand this article you need to know that in cirrhosis most of the normal liver tissue has been replaced with scar tissue. As I understand it, endocannabanoids are dilating the blood vessels throughout the body, resulting in increased blood flow. In most people this would not be a problem and would likely be beneficial. However, in cirrhosis patients the small amount of normal liver tissue left cannot accommodated the increased flow. This causes a pressure build up as the blood enters the liver ( think of a big pipe meeting a small pipe). The increased back pressure causes fluid to leak out of the blood vessels leading up to the liver, resulting in fluid build up in the abdomen ("ascites" is a clinical sign of advanced liver failure). Paradoxically, in these patients having a higher peripheral blood pressure will reduce the blood flow to the liver and therefore actually reduce the pressure at the liver. This is probalbly not true for most people withou cirrhosis so is not anything that the general population needs to worry about. Hope this explanation makes sense (and is correct)-I'm a veterinarian, not an MD but dogs get cirrhosis too [ Post Comment ] |
Comment #10 posted by Kickaha on June 30, 2001 at 20:01:54 PT |
This doesn't seem nefarious to me. The article kind of garbles the information, but it seems that the researchers had observed low blood pressure as well as elevated levels of anandamide in cirrhosis patients, and hypothesized a relationship between the two. By performing an experiment in which they block the action of anandamide, and observe that blood pressure does indeed rise, they have evidence that their hypothesis is correct. An anandamide blocker could conceivably help cirrhosis sufferers avoid the complications caused by low blood pressure. This actually makes it less likely that an anandamide blocker could be used to eliminate a marijuana high, because this research implies that it would raise your blood pressure as well, a dangerous side effect. [ Post Comment ] |
Comment #9 posted by FoM on June 30, 2001 at 18:27:31 PT |
I appreciate your research. I am tired of the games they play. Cannabis is good medicine and I can't stand when they rant and rave about it. It's time for them to let it be and let us be. I want to be the master of my own destiny. That should be every persons right. I think I'm snappy about this article because I'm getting a cold or something and am grumpy. My husband is sick too and I lose my tolerance for stupidity when I feel like I do today. Cannabis is not just a substance that gets a person high but a herb that makes people feel more at peace. [ Post Comment ] |
Comment #8 posted by Robbie on June 30, 2001 at 18:01:50 PT |
Hey FoM, I did some research over at MAp. This writer, Schmid, did a report on alcohol from last year, in which he quoted heavily from government types about the evils of alcohol and drugs. He also did a couple of stories about the IOM report in 99. The first day he did a balanced piece about who was involved and what conclusions the IOM made. the very next day, he did another piece that quoted heavily from McCaffery, Robert McGinnis, and Bill McCollum of Florida (I never noticed the fact that these three drug warriors had Mc in their name. I hope thats not a trend ;-) As to whether or not this article has validity, has anyone linked marijuana smoking and cirrhosis deaths? Unless that happens, I doubt the link made here. Remember, THC is similar to anandamide in it's effects, not the same thing. [ Post Comment ] |
Comment #7 posted by FoM on June 30, 2001 at 17:17:48 PT |
Thanks everyone, This just doesn't make sense to me. I realize how many people have or will develop liver problems and I don't understand what the point is. I hope this is wrong. They need to develop something to help with the blood pressure rather then trying do do things that might not help. [ Post Comment ] |
Comment #6 posted by lookinside on June 30, 2001 at 16:55:37 PT:
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these observations fit right in with "the moon rises in the east"...interesting observations, but no conclusions have been reached yet... [ Post Comment ] |
Comment #5 posted by Hope on June 30, 2001 at 15:05:48 PT |
Endocannabinoids and anandamide are certainly easy for me to mispell! Sorry! [ Post Comment ] |
Comment #4 posted by Hope on June 30, 2001 at 14:53:26 PT |
"found that substances normally present in the body, called endocannabinoids, act on the blood vessel walls to cause dilation. The researchers found elevated levels of the endocannabinoid anandamide associated with low blood pressure." This seems to say that researchers think they may can raise blood pressure by using the drug that blocks endocannaboid anandamide...the same thing, I believe, that they said could block a cannabis high. It raises my blood pressure to even think of it! This makes me think of the study warning of increased heart attacks for cannabis users. Isn't high blood pressure usually associated with heart attacks? If the anamandine lowers the blood pressure...it should protect cannabis users from strokes and heart attacks. [ Post Comment ] |
Comment #3 posted by dddd on June 30, 2001 at 14:31:21 PT |
that they have discovered a relationship between blood pressure and cirrhosis,and how it has the potential to have new treatments,and possible preventions,,,,,,at least that's how I see it.....dddd [ Post Comment ] |
Comment #2 posted by sm247 on June 30, 2001 at 14:17:04 PT |
Thats a good question. [ Post Comment ] |
Comment #1 posted by FoM on June 30, 2001 at 14:11:19 PT |
What does this article mean? [ Post Comment ] |
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