Suject two--- death penalty: They can't eliminate the death penalty until treatment becomes more widespread. There's no room in the jails for murderers or rapists. They're full of drug users.

To sum up: I believe NOT ONE WORD of the "official" story behind the bombing of the fed. building and Tim McViegh.

Back to Florida: this looks good. Don't forget that rabid drug warrior Bill McCollum was defeated handily in the last election.

Here's the story from last Nov. from the Miami Herald

"Nelson edges McCollum in bid for open Senate seat"

BY STEVE BOUSQUET AND LESLEY CLARK
sbousquet@herald.com

TALLAHASSEE -- Riding a wave of support
across South Florida, Democrat Bill Nelson
defeated Bill McCollum Tuesday to capture an
open U.S. Senate seat, giving Florida two
Democratic senators for the first time in 12
years and dashing Republican hopes of
carrying on a ``Connie Mack legacy.''

``I stand before you tonight a humbled and grateful man,'' Nelson told a cheering crowd of about 200 at a banquet hall at Florida State University. ``I want to represent all of the people of Florida, not just the ones who voted for me.''

McCollum conceded at 9 p.m. at a downtown Orlando hotel. Red, white and blue balloons remained tethered to the ceiling. His campaign aides fought back tears.

``This is not the end of our fight for better government. This is just the beginning,'' McCollum said. ``We had the momentum coming our way at the end; we just didn't close the gap enough.''

The campaign was long and bitter, with hard-hitting ads by both men. It dragged on for months. But the result came quickly. Exit polling showed Nelson the winner by 7:01 p.m. -- even as last-minute voters stood in line to vote in South Florida and polls were still open in the western Panhandle
in Central time.

As the evening wore on, Nelson's victory margin shrank, but the Democrat did an endless series of celebratory interviews. ``It looks OK,'' he said while half the vote was still uncounted in Democrat-heavy Broward. ``Wait until you see Broward.''

Florida Republican chairman Al Cárdenas refused to concede, calling the
race ``too close to call.''

McCollum's showing will likely trigger a lot of second-guessing of Cárdenas
and Gov. Jeb Bush, who pressured moderate Republican Tom Gallagher
to drop out of the race.

The trim, square-jawed Nelson, 58, has been state insurance
commissioner since 1994. He is perhaps best known for flying on a space
shuttle mission in 1986. He and McCollum waged the most expensive
Senate race in Florida history -- close to $20 million, including independent
groups' expenditures. Nelson, who will join Democrat Bob Graham in the
Senate, said his win represents a statement by Floridians against
``extreme politics.''

McCollum, 56, a suburban Orlando congressman since 1980 with a
conservative, pro-business voting record, struggled to redefine himself as
a moderate, emphasizing his work on domestic violence legislation and a
hate-crime law with protections for gays.

Running his first statewide race, McCollum was less well-known statewide.
His role as a House prosecutor in President Clinton's impeachment was all
some voters knew about him. To some, that was enough.

``He tore his britches with me when he tried to crucify Clinton,'' Jim
Haddock, 63, a retired railroad worker, said after voting for Nelson at a
church in Orlando.

Even McCollum's attempts to saddle Nelson with homeowners' rising
insurance premiums fell flat.

The Democrat rolled up majorities in hurricane-prone Miami-Dade and
Broward counties.

Nelson also overcame the Willie Logan factor. Logan, a long-time
Democratic lawmaker from Opa-locka, ran a low-budget, nonpartisan race,
offering an alternative to ``politics as usual.''

Lacking money to buy TV ads and dogged by reports of questionable
financial dealings, Logan was not a statistical factor.

Even with an overwhelming turnout in predominantly black precincts,
Logan won few black votes. At North Fork Elementary School in Fort
Lauderdale, Vera Blackmon, 61, who works in the public defender's office,
said: ``I didn't know Logan's background. I didn't know what he stood for.''

``I vote parties,'' said Arthur Williams, a retired school principal. ``He
wasn't
on the Democratic ticket.''

Nelson was aided by the overwhelming large Democratic turnout,
especially among black voters.

Nelson is expected to be a moderate in the mold of his Senate colleague,
Bob Graham, and Lawton Chiles, the last Democrat to hold the seat.
Nelson opposes school vouchers, and his tax cut proposal of $500 billion is
about one third the size of McCollum's.

Although Nelson aggressively took advantage of the existing soft-money
loophole, he says he will join forces with Sen. John McCain, R-Ariz., who
has vowed to ``shut down the Senate'' until it passes meaningful campaign
finance reform.

Herald staff writers Phil Long and Susan Ferrechio and Herald researcher
Tina Cummings contributed to this report.

This morning, Tim McVeigh got the punishment he
wanted and a chance to prove to everybody that he was
more calm, collected and philosophical than the crowd
of medievalists outside baying for his blood. McVeigh's
crime was horrible, but his punishment made him a
martyr and set a rare example of bravery. Is this really a
wise way to dispose of the "worst American terrorist
ever"? How many Dylan Klebolds and other psychos
are going to lionize this man?

Whereas, had he simply been thrown in prison,
America would have watched him grow old,
contemplate his crimes, and very likely end up
repentant and demented. Wouldn't that have been a
more fitting end for such a mass murderer?

I hate to say it, but the Europeans are right -- this
execution was barbaric and showcases the moral
turpitude of the lowest sector of American society. We
should all be ashamed.

And, of course, if the death penalty is OK for Tim
McVeigh, then it's also OK for anybody else whose
crimes can be spun as terrorism. What if they catch a
pot pusher who gave cannabis to thousands of
high-school students? Under federal "drug kingpin"
laws, he too would be eligible to die.

As for treatment in Florida, I have to agree with Rambler
-- the whole thing is a farce and quite possibly a step
backwards. I'd rather spend six months in jail than
submit to a humiliating, urine-tested "treatment"
program for using the hallowed herb. This smells like
just another way of stigmatizing marijuana users as
helpless, pathetic addicts.

Maybe if they martyred a couple of pot smokers on a
federal guerney, could end this thing in a jiffy.

This McVeigh thing is such a sickening media circus.There is no reason why he should be executed.We have plenty of wonderful new prisons,I'm sure we could have found a spare cell to leave him in.That's why the drug war wont end,too many empty prisons,they might be able to convert some of them to schools,or maybe they will be renamed as "Treatment Centers",for "Drug Offenders"

here's a couple of good articles about McVeighs execution this morning.

http://commondreams.org/views01/0611-03.htm

...so I ask, is it completely crazy to think they would blow up one of their own buildings? Maybe an EMPLOYEE knew too much.... one can only wonder. All I know is I don't put ANYTHING past `em....

It's a big game to the feds, they don't give a shit who lives or dies. My personal opinion: they are covering something up. For all we know THEY blew the damn building up, and Timmy's the nutcase nutjob they found to hang for it. WHO EVEN KNOWS.

What I do know is this: death is NOT a deterrant to crime, and a life in prison is FAR worse punishment than death itself. If you guys have ever seen any HBO specials on prison (no, not "Oz" I mean the real deal prison stuff) then you guys know what I'm talking about.

The French had a pit that they called the "obliette" (I think I spelled it wrong, but..) it was where they put people not so much to punish them but to forget about them..... it worked, from what I understand.

Besides, why is it our job, collectively as a society, to "punish" these wrongdoers? If it IS our job, I certainly don't see what kind of moral lesson we are preaching by "killing the killers". Just my opinion. Death penalty advocates at work say "well what if it was your mom"? Well I would STILL not want the person/killer to die (and I;ve though this one over). No, serving life in a system within a system, (esp. the PRISON SYSTEM in the UNITED STATES GOVERMENTS' SYSTEM).... I mean, seriously, how much more punishment can one endure? :)

sly in green, foxy in kind...
greenfox

[ Post Comment ]

Can you imagine being "treated",for your
Mirijuana "problem"? It's like some episode
of the Outer Limits. Some old veteran retired
Hippie,has to go in for his "treatment session".

The "treatment specialist",is someone who
has a sociology degree from a correspondance
course, who was hired last week, and makes
$2.00 more per hour than his previous job
at McDonalds, whose parents werent even
married when you started smoking pot, is going
to "treat" you old Hippie ass.

Good Grief!

>"That these people will build the rehab houses and make money off of all of the people going there."<

This is exactly what is going to happen,,,and I fear it will be an impediment to
legalization,by giving the appearance that they "fixed" the drug/jail problem.

How bout a bill called;"The Right be covered by the Constitution for all Citizens"...
....that sounds like it might pass....or,,;Abolition and Repeal of all laws that Compromise
the Constitution".
or,,;"The Right to have a Full Accounting Of,and Accountability For All Tax Expenditures",,
,,,I'll bet you could collect plenty of signatures for that one...

Florida wont be easy for this one.I was reading an article today,about how Florida has now
remedied that little problem they had with the slight mixup caused by that l'il Texas company
that accidently made it impossible for about 50,000 eligible voters to vote........so..
..here's how they "fixed" the problem;,,they put the whole state on one computer database..
isnt that reassurring.

Even if they go get enough signatures to make the ballot,,alot of the people who would
vote in favor of the law,are not eligible to vote.I believe anyone convicted of a felony
in Florida,loses their right to vote for LIFE!....seems like double jeapordy to me.....
....Furthermore,,I cant believe that this excludes them from voting for president,,since
when does a state law apply nationally??

We are all volunteers with no outside money. Last year we collected 158,000 signatures half of the 300,000 we needed. This year we are stronger and more experienced. With just a little help we could have billboards and a few tv. and radio adds. When I see articals like this one I wonder what the big boys are doing with there money.

We are all volunteers with no outside money. Last year we collected 158,000 signatures half of the 300,000 we needed. This year we are stronger and more experienced. With just a little help we could have billboards and a few tv. and radio adds. When I see articals like this one I wonder what the big boys are doing with there money.